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Author Topic: Backing up your music - what do you use?  (Read 10124 times)

jimmy neutron

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Backing up your music - what do you use?
« on: July 04, 2012, 02:11:35 am »

Just like the heading says: what software do you use to back up your music drive? Currently, I'm using the Windows built in back up in manual mode to back up my "MAIN MUSIC" external USB 3.0 hard drive to another "BACKUP MAIN MUSIC" external USB 3.0 hard drive. I do this once a week, but I do it manually because windows won't allow me to pick specific folders for back up. So I'm curious to know what people here are using to back up there media with. What is easy, reliable, and automated for not just specific folders, but for the OS as well, and to back up to not just another drive, but to the cloud as well?

Jimmy
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jmone

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 03:08:02 am »

I use WHS to backup all the PC's Main OS drives on the Home Network (this gives incremental backups from which you can restore from in case of a HDD crash).  In addition I manually run SyncToy from my Media Collection to to a Drive Pool on the WHS boxs as it allows me to preview the changes before commiting them.  I also use Drive Bender to create single media drive pools both on my main Win7 box and the backup media pool on the WHS box.
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InflatableMouse

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2012, 03:15:09 am »

Allway Sync (pro) to a NAS with RAID-5.

Not really backup, it just copies the folder and keeps it in sync. It does keep changed and deleted files with a 14 days retention.

I did recently purchase Macrium Reflect to not just image my system disk on a regular basis (the free version can do that already) but to also backup a selection of files and folders too but I don't know if I want to include my media folders yet.

Personally I'm staying away from any and all cloud solutions for storage. I don't need it, privacy and security is a concern to me too (megaupload anyone?) and really, it doesn't offer me anything I can't already do without.
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leezer3

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2012, 09:32:17 am »

One of those interesting little statistics for you:
I've been collecting media (Mostly videos/ audiobooks in my case) for approximately 8 years.
This lives across ~14 drives (Currently 12- 9tb), where I replace the smallest with the largest on the market about once a year.
In this time, I've had three drive failures- All of these have been 'ticking' drives with creeping bad sectors, and has always given me ample time to buy a replacement drive and move across.

I personally don't backup media full-stop, the only thing backed up is 15 years worth of irreplaceable work & photos to SpiderOak (Online sync service).
Backing up media is IMHO near pointless, and expensive into the bargain.
You'd do better backing up your library- This contains all the tag work and playcounts which are irreplaceable if the drive dies. Media can be reacquired :)

-Leezer-
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Magic_Randy

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2012, 09:39:15 am »

I use Genie Backup Manager. There are multiple backup options. I use 'Mirror' for multi-media. It synchronizes all of the folders. This results in a file based backup and only needs to backup changes (e.g. retagging, moving/renaming files, ripping new...) etc so it is very fast.
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jimmy neutron

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2012, 01:28:03 pm »


Backing up media is IMHO near pointless, and expensive into the bargain.
You'd do better backing up your library- This contains all the tag work and playcounts which are irreplaceable if the drive dies. Media can be reacquired :)

-Leezer-

Wow. Good luck to you. I have 2 terrabytes of just music alone. Reacquiring it is.....welll, let's just say I won't do it again. Back up is a necessity, not an option. Hard drives space is cheap, and the cost of large capacity drives is at an all time low. You can back up to newer drives yearly if you wanted to and still not be spending much money doing so - just the time involved for the back up software to move files from older hard drives to newer ones. God, I can't imagine having a hard drive failure at this point.

Thanks for your suggesstion, though   :o

Jimmy
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Vocalpoint

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2012, 03:18:38 pm »

Backing up media is IMHO near pointless, and expensive into the bargain.
You'd do better backing up your library- This contains all the tag work and playcounts which are irreplaceable if the drive dies. Media can be reacquired :)

Hmm...reacquired? Considering I have 100,000+ FLAC files - all hand tagged in MC with full embedded art, endless custom tags etc etc - "reacquired" is impossible espeically if the orginal is long gone - like a mistake (That I regret everyday) made about 5 years ago after ripping several hundreds CD's into cheesy wma format and taking them to a local used CD store.

Back up here is constant - and in triplicate. Play copies reside on the media server used by 5-6 PC's in the house. That entire Music share is mirrored to a local set of TB drives that are rotated and stored in our safe onsite - these are mirrored again to another set of TB drives that reside in our bank vault safe deposit box. The MC library is backed up and copied in triplicate every 15 minutes during the day from 6am-10pm, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Take no chances. If you do not have three copies of everything - you are not really backed up in my mind.

Cheers,

VP
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Listener

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2012, 03:44:49 pm »

Hmm...reacquired? Considering I have 100,000+ FLAC files - all hand tagged in MC with full embedded art, endless custom tags etc etc - "reacquired" is impossible espeically if the orginal is long gone - like a mistake (That I regret everyday) made about 5 years ago after ripping several hundreds CD's into cheesy wma format and taking them to a local used CD store.

Back up here is constant - and in triplicate. ...

Take no chances. If you do not have three copies of everything - you are not really backed up in my mind.

I'm with you, VP.

I use robocopy for backup with Batch files for each operation and a shortcut to make its use a one click action.  Like VP, I have an onsite backup away from my PCs and another backup offsite.

I also have an archive copy that records the initial state of each music file after I have tagged it.  This provides for recovery from a human error (or MC error) that I don't catch for several months.  I also have a test copy of my music files on my personal PC that could be used as a backup.

Bill

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SamuelMaki

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2012, 03:52:01 pm »

I just manually drag and drop the folders... But I have almost complete collection, so I do not update it often...
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Vocalpoint

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2012, 04:05:15 pm »

I also have an archive copy that records the initial state of each music file after I have tagged it.

This is my process as well. My actual masters ("archive" copies) are always done manually (tagged in MC etc) on my local workstation. After every master file is correct per my specs - a copy of this master is sent the server for the play copy. The original master is then moved to the local backup disc array and then mirrored to the bank backup.

I do not permit MC or anyone using MC to alter any audio file. All automatic importing is off and any tracks destined for the main library are manually imported and checked by me for consistency. I had a strange situation with MC last summer which ended up corrupting about 700 files. After that debacle (still unsolved today) - I really take no chances now :)

VP
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leezer3

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2012, 04:06:53 pm »

Hmm...reacquired? Considering I have 100,000+ FLAC files - all hand tagged in MC with full embedded art, endless custom tags etc etc - "reacquired" is impossible espeically if the orginal is long gone - like a mistake (That I regret everyday) made about 5 years ago after ripping several hundreds CD's into cheesy wma format and taking them to a local used CD store.

Artwork and all custom tags are also in the library unless you're doing something really funky  :)
The way I see it, I either have the original or the digital source for all my media. Sure, it may take a little while to re-rip or download, but I have put no work into these further than placing in a directory and pointing import at them. The library on the other hand-
* Somewhere over 250,000 files.
* 23 custom fields.
* Endless hours of work.

Also, as a note, I *never* delete anything. I've got an entire archive drive (500gb) with downloaded programs, documents and other stuff on it which haven't been imported into the library but are still there when I want them.

I'd be really interested in how many times you've actually required the backup through physical data loss. Like I say, over 8 years and 9tb I've never lost anything through corruption. In my last library maintenence run, I found 1 series (7 video files) & 3 films which were unplayable. All of these appear to have been an error when muxing the originals into MKV.

-Leezer-
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Vocalpoint

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2012, 04:19:00 pm »

I'd be really interested in how many times you've actually required the backup through physical data loss.

How about last summer. Something caused exactly 710 of my FLAC files to become corrupted. I never did find out what the issue really was and at the time I relied on a server process to copy/mirror files from my Music share over to an external drive. It worked perfectly - except for the part where the mirroring process actually copied the compromised files from the server over to the backup - so when I finally realized what was happening - I ended up with 2 copies of all 710 files - all of them corrupt.

So - in terms of "how many times have I required the backup"?  - have to say once was enough...it took roughly 3 weeks of work to get just those 710 files back in place. If I had a proper backup process - probably could have had them replaced in an hour. Never again. :)

Another tip I will pass along after that disaster last summer - if FLAC's are your thing - get in the habit of running Audiochecker over everything prior to backup. Before any of my files actually go to the master archive - they are all run thru this utility to check their consistency. I can verify many instances (now thankfully in the past) where I would casually change album art or something benign using a third party tool like say - Tag N' Rename and then try to play the file weeks later only to find MC suddenly can't play the file. A quick run thru Audiochecker revealed corruption right off the bat.

Now I do all of my tag work/image/cover art work in MC and have managed to have zero errors making it to master archive using this approach.  A backup is useless if the file being backed up already has issues. Be sure.

Which reminds me : Feature Request (for some future version) - Right click on any FLAC file and choose Check Consistency :)

VP
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Magic_Randy

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2012, 04:22:22 pm »

In most cases I have the original CDs for all my music. But all of the music has embedded tags including lyrics and cover art. I can't imagine starting over so I have 2 backups of everything. Of course this also includes all my pictures and videos.
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kwake

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2012, 05:00:25 pm »

SyncBack Pro to make it easy to maintain 4 separate copies of all my music files at any one time on 4 different drives (laptop, nas, Studio PC and HTPC).

http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/index.html

The post above about backing up files that are unknowingly corrupt makes me nervous - will have to look into adding a consistency check of my files into the workflow somehow...

Kwake
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jimmy neutron

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2012, 05:01:45 pm »

I agree with all....a back up is a neccessity, not an option. Having a back up of tags is fine, but when you don't have the source for those tags then it's pretty much useless. 2 terrabytes worth of music. Years worth of hard work, countless sleepness nights tagging, editing, importing, cleaning, cover art in place, etc. Man, I do not want to start that process all over again.

I just downloaded the trial copy of Arconis True Image Home to see if it would handle my back ups, but I'm having an issue with it that makes me think it's not for me. It locks up every time I am starting a back up of my music drive, and it won't allow me to turn off my PC - even if I shut off the software. Maybe it's something I'm doing wrong, I don't know. But if there is a better program, or an easier one, then I'd like to know about it.

Jimmy
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Vocalpoint

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2012, 05:20:15 pm »

I just downloaded the trial copy of Arconis True Image Home to see if it would handle my back ups, but I'm having an issue with it that makes me think it's not for me. It locks up every time I am starting a back up of my music drive, and it won't allow me to turn off my PC - even if I shut off the software. Maybe it's something I'm doing wrong, I don't know. But if there is a better program, or an easier one, then I'd like to know about it.

I ditched Acronis years ago (truly useless software that is) and now rely on Macrium Reflect  for imaging and SyncBack SE for straight file backup/duplcation/automation. Neither of these bad boys has ever let me down. Syncback SE especially is  - besides MC itself - probably one of the best values for the buck that I have seen in a long while.

VP
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jimmy neutron

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2012, 05:55:53 pm »

Thanks VP. I will look into that piece.

Jimmy
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Listener

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2012, 07:27:43 pm »

I'd be really interested in how many times you've actually required the backup through physical data loss. Like I say, over 8 years and 9tb I've never lost anything through corruption.

I've needed backup after a burglary and after a malware incident.  Both times it felt very good to have solid backups.

I often use the backups to update music files on my personal PC from the for-real copy on my dedicated MusicPC.  I've used backup copies of data and applications several times when I moved to a new PC.  That addresses several problems: 1) you don't know that your backup strategy works until you have done a successfully completed a restoration and 2) you don't know those backup drives in storage still work until you use them.

Vocalpoint, I've found that using MC for all ripping and tagging avoids problems.  I have tried using EAC and dBpoweramp for ripping and MP3tag for tag editing.  Life is better without the small aggravations that incompatibilities with MC caused.

Bill

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jimmy neutron

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2012, 07:28:56 pm »

Ok now. Thanks to VP's suggestionI just purchased SyncBack Pro, and I have to say it works very well. I could'nt get Arconis to run, much less even start a backup for some reason. SyncBack Pro is very intuitive. I answered a few questions and performed a "dry run". Man, I like this program!!!

VP, one question: What choice do I use for my backups? I have 2 external hard drives - [MAIN MUSIC DRIVE] and [BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE]. I want to automatically backup what is on the MAIN MUSIC DRIVE onto the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE. I also want whatever changes are made to the MAIN MUSIC DRIVE to be automatically performed on the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE, ie, if I add music to the MAIN MUSIC DRIVE the software will automatically add those files to the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE. I *think* I should be using the "Mirror" option because this option mirrors the MAIN MUSIC DRIVE and any changes as well will be carried out on the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE, but any changes that happen on the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE will not be carried out on the MAIN MUSIC DRIVE (viruses, corruptiones, etc). I think this is what I need, but I'm worried that every time the software performs a backup that all the music will be erased completely from the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE and then written all over again - each and every time. Will it not just add any changes? This would be quicker. Or is there another option I should choose? What option are you using?

Jimmy
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Vocalpoint

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2012, 08:18:27 pm »

I *think* I should be using the "Mirror" option because this option mirrors the MAIN MUSIC DRIVE and any changes as well will be carried out on the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE, but any changes that happen on the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE will not be carried out on the MAIN MUSIC DRIVE (viruses, corruptiones, etc). I think this is what I need, but I'm worried that every time the software performs a backup that all the music will be erased completely from the BACKUP MUSIC DRIVE and then written all over again - each and every time. Will it not just add any changes? This would be quicker. Or is there another option I should choose? What option are you using?

Mirror is what I use but there are some caveats that you need to be aware of. A mirror is exactly what is says - and it's different from backup. Mirror will attempt to create an "exact" layout on the destination drive - including the all-important "delete". If you had a folder on the Left (Source) that your delete...when you run SyncBack in Mirror mode - you will remove that same folder on the right (destination). As long as you are aware of that - it's all good. And yes - a mirror job just does changes...so you are not dumping the destination each time.

I prefer the mirror since I need to know I have identical copies of everything stored with a specific folder structure. And I never change anything on a "destination" drive so I do not worry about any right to left action. All my Syncback jobs are mirrors moving data from the Left (Source) to the Right (destination).

Cheers,

VP
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jimmy neutron

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2012, 08:46:55 pm »

Thanks VP. Have a great 4th of July.  :)

Jimmy
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InflatableMouse

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2012, 01:10:02 am »

I'd be really interested in how many times you've actually required the backup through physical data loss. Like I say, over 8 years and 9tb I've never lost anything through corruption.

Once. Just need to happen once and you will praise the day that you decided to make a proper backup. It's not a matter of 'if', its a matter of 'when' you are going to need it.

As simple as it sounds, this is always the case: Nothing ever goes wrong until it does and no one needs backup until they do.

I once lost almost everything I owned, I was able to recover some stuff. Lightning storm. Double backups, but on disks that were online, most of it gone. 2 pc's, including mainboards, cpu's, all but 1 harddisk, fried. All light went out in the neighborhood. From that day onwards, I unplug everything of value during a serious storm but that's a different story. The lifesaver was a backup I made on dvd's with 10% parity added. I never completed that backup because it was too much work and I thought it was a waste of time. I mean, I already had backups on disk, right?

Both of the pc's that contained data were fried. My own pc and a home server wouldn't boot. I never replaced the home server but when I was fixing my own pc I started checking the hardisks from both pc's. Now this may sound simple but when you discover that from all disks only 1 survived the lightning storm, you will start to sweat. I hooked it up to my own computer and started copying stuff back to my new disk. Windows copy cancelled at one point because it couldn't read the disk and while I was going back and forth to see what was copied and what wasn't, for a reason I can't remember I decided to start over and deleted the original folder! Yes, that is stupid. It is incredibly stupid but it happens, not just to me, it can happen to everyone. I did eventually recover most of that folder but the time and the stress  .... I never want to go through that again.

Another lesson: don't use dvd's!! Even with 10% parity. After a year or so you may have trouble reading them. I was able to recover because each folder had 10% parity files (PAR2) but recovering the dvd's and fixing them with Par2 took forever!

Not backing up is about the stupidest thing you can do to yourself.
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FastKayak

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2012, 01:56:00 pm »

I use Genie9 Timeline every 60 minutes for all music, photographic, MC catalog, Lightroom catalog, Quicken files etc. to local USB 3 raid 1 drive.  Time between runs can be adjusted but I have found 60 minutes as my sweet spot.  Once setup backup is automatic.

I run Genie 9 Backup Manager Pro daily for incremental, and once a week for full backup to local USB 3 drive.  Also automatic via built in scheduler. 

I run Beyond Compare from time to time across network to living room HTPC and sync folders - this is music only.

I don't backup ripped DVD's and blu-rays.  Maybe someday when I have more space.  And more importantly I don't have a copy outside the house, obviously I live on the edge about that. 

FastKayak / Larry
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edladner

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2012, 02:24:57 pm »

Another option I use is to backup all my important files to a 2tb portable drive that leaves the house when I do.  I use Goodsync software for everything.
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BartMan01

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2012, 04:53:41 pm »

A good option is CrashPlan, even for very large libraries.  It has both a paid (cloud backup) option and a free (DYI) option.  With the free option you can backup to a friends/family member's house (the further away the better).  If you have too much data to do the initial sync over your/their internet connection, you can always do the initial backup locally and take it to the other location.  If all of your backups are local, you could easily still lose it all from theft or disaster.  Even the 'I take it with me' approach only works if you never forget or if whatever destroys your data does it before you can physically reach your backup or original.

As to some of the comments in the thread, it would be wise to avoid admitting to theft on a public forum.  Buying CD's ripping the content and then selling/giving away the CD's would be considered theft of content in most jurisdictions.
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drmimosa

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2012, 06:00:18 pm »

Allway Sync (pro) to a NAS with RAID-5.

Not really backup, it just copies the folder and keeps it in sync.

I just installed the program and it's great for folder sync, very clear and straightforward to use.

Thanks for recommending this to the forum.
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Neco

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2012, 05:45:27 pm »

I use  FlexRaid  with a  dedicated parity disk(s) option.   I forget what RAID implementation it is,  probably 3 or 4..

It has both a  Drive Pooling (all drives appears as one huge drive)  and manual (all drives kept separate you manage the contents) option, and overall has been pretty reliable.  It also has a  Real-Time  or  Snapshot  option for parity calculation.   So you can set it up to only process new parity data overnight while you are in bed,  or w/e.    That also gives you the option of keeping the parity drives offline until you need them
It does have a license fee,  but then so does Media Center,  so I don't consider it a huge negative in that context.

When my dedicated HTPC/File Server is up and running again,  I will have  roughly 12 TB of space  protected with a single 2TB parity drive (expanded to more parity drives later).
This is protecting not only my Music Library (small in comparison), but ISO's for my  PC Programs and Games,  Terabytes of  old console and PC games that you can't really get anywhere anymore,  and of course my ripped Videos library and other miscellaneous data.    I will probably consider the system "complete" when I am maintaining about 20TB of storage space with 5 dedicated parity units.

When prices on 3TB's drop to around $100 each I will probably start upgrading it to a 30TB or larger pool and add additional Parity units as I go  (old parity units will be recycled into storage pools since your parity drive has to be as large as your single largest drive)

There is no real solution to permanent data loss,  or catastrophic failures,  except 1:1 physical backups,  and maybe cloud storage,  but I think FlexRAID is a good compromise to  having and offline clone of every single disk I own, or paying outrageous fees to my ISP when I need to restore data from a Cloud backup and it eats right through my  250GB/mo  allotment.   Assuming they wouldn't kill my account outright after restoring several Terabytes worth of data...

If  M-DISC technology ever pays off,  and can deliver disc sizes of 50GB to 100GB  or more, then it would also be a nice option down the road.
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nwboater

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2012, 04:57:13 pm »

I use WHS to backup all the PC's Main OS drives on the Home Network (this gives incremental backups from which you can restore from in case of a HDD crash).  In addition I manually run SyncToy from my Media Collection to to a Drive Pool on the WHS boxs as it allows me to preview the changes before commiting them.  I also use Drive Bender to create single media drive pools both on my main Win7 box and the backup media pool on the WHS box.

We are now using our HTPC as the server for MC instead of the WHS. I plan a similar scheme that you are using for backup using the WHS and like your idea of a program like SyncToy so you have the chance to decide for sure that you want to do the media backup before it starts.

I don't understand though what you are accomplishing using Drive Bender on the WHS when the WHS has drive pooling built in. At least our old WHS version does and I plan to stick with that version.

Thanks,
Rod
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bannonb

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2012, 08:21:43 pm »

I use Viceversa Pro.

It allows you to synch directory sets with basic rules applied (no .jpg, or hidden files).

I synch my d:\music directory to my NAS music directory so they are always in synch.  I disregard artwork since the NAS does its own indexing and creates it on the NAS.

I also use a freeware product called "Remove empty Directories" to cleanse the d:\music directory of any empty directories before synching.

It works pretty well.
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jmone

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2012, 11:21:43 pm »

We are now using our HTPC as the server for MC instead of the WHS. I plan a similar scheme that you are using for backup using the WHS and like your idea of a program like SyncToy so you have the chance to decide for sure that you want to do the media backup before it starts.

I don't understand though what you are accomplishing using Drive Bender on the WHS when the WHS has drive pooling built in. At least our old WHS version does and I plan to stick with that version.

Thanks,
Rod

Hi Rod (sorry to have missed the post).  You are of course correct in that with the original version of WHS there is no need for a product like Drive Bender as it is already built into the OS.  WHS11 removed the feature, so as I had to upgrade to support disks with Large Sector sizes I needed to add back in a drive pool product to "keep" similar functionality.  If the original WHS was not built on such an old underlying OS I would have stuck with it.
Thanks
Nathan
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nwboater

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2012, 11:26:55 pm »

Hi Rod (sorry to have missed the post).  You are of course correct in that with the original version of WHS there is no need for a product like Drive Bender as it is already built into the OS.  WHS11 removed the feature, so as I had to upgrade to support disks with Large Sector sizes I needed to add back in a drive pool product to "keep" similar functionality.  If the original WHS was not built on such an old underlying OS I would have stuck with it.
Thanks
Nathan

Wow that was quick - I just hung up the phone!

Thanks for the explanation. The largest drive I have at the moment is 2 TB in the old WHS. Do you know if it can handle 3s? I think you have gone to 4s. Must admit I'm sorry to hear that there is a limitation.

Cheers,
Rod
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jmone

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2012, 02:36:25 am »

Hi Rod, WHS (original) likes MBR drives with 512K sectors.  There have been some posts on how to use larger than 2TB drives (GPT and 4K) but.....  Here is one thread on it http://forum.wegotserved.com/index.php/topic/16580-guide-how-to-make-gpt-4k-sector-drives-and-3tb-drives-work-as-storage-pool-drives-in-whs-pp3/

I've moved to 4TB hdd on WHS11
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tcman41

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2012, 07:56:00 am »

I am old school, i just back everything up on another computers hard drive over my wired 1gb network, I only have about 900 albums, so it only takes about 20 minutes or so. I just go to the drive on the backup computer delete my music folder and then just copy my music folder from the main computer back on to the backup computer.
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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2012, 02:28:08 pm »

RAID is high availability, not a backup ! 

Let's get back to basics : reasons to backup
  • HW failure - component (DD, power supply, etc...)
  • HW failure - external reasons (thunderstorm, floods, fire, 2012 end of world)
  • Theft
  • SW failure - corruption due to bugs in a program, or subtle incompatibilities between two programs
  • Human error - deletion of the wrong folder (or copy over)
  • Bit rot.  That is a single bit changing state within a file.  That single bit can end up being unnoticeable at best, and make a file unplayable at worst.  Occurrences are few and far between, but exist nevertheless.

Most of the backup methods I saw in this thread do not mention and do not address bit rot.  Bit rot is not an issue if your file system is some kind of RAID and you regularly scrub the whole array.  I do not use RAID, as I think the benefits do not balance with the inconveniences in the case of media files (written once, mostly read) in a home environment.

Now let's address priorities, in decreasing order.
  • Home photos and videos.  Those instants occurred once and are truly irreplaceable
  • Personal data
  • Music
  • Commercial videos and movies

The first 3 items (photos, data and music) fortunately fit in a single external drive, nowadays cheaply found up to 3TB.  

Here is how I proceed for all but video.

My main PC is where I rip and do most chores.  
The cleaned up files are then copied to a NAS, serving all the PCs and media sinks (XBOX, PS3, Tablets, HTPCs) in the house.  That NAS (a Synology 2-disk low power box) is on 24/365 and always available to every device in the home.

I use SyncToy (free from Microsoft) in Contribute mode to copy new stuff from the NAS to the external backup drive. Here's SyncToy definition of Contribute: "New and updated files are copied left to right. Renames on the left are repeated on the right. No deletions".
If I need to delete from the backup, I do it manually on both external (mostly off-line) backup drives.

I also copy those files to a small area within the video server (see below).

I have two backup drives, one at home and the other at work.  Once in a while (depends on amount of churn) I bring the home backup to work and come back with the other to be refreshed.  The drive at home is totally disconnected (power and data) except when doing actual backup work.

Now video is simply too big to be backed up !
While I cannot completely prevent fire or theft (collection is insured though), I can improve reliability and resiliency.

I rip my DVDs and Blu-rays lock, stock and barrel to ISO files stored in a dedicated "video" file server.  That big box is mostly off, but I can turn it on and off remotely (Wake On LAN) usually just to watch a movie.  It can hold 20+1 disks and currently holds 8 disks.

As I mentioned earlier, I do not believe in RAID for media files, but I use a form of off-line protection called SnapRAID (http://snapraid.sourceforge.net/).  SnapRAID is free.  It uses dedicated parity drives (1 or 2) to build enough redundancy information to survive loss of one or two disks (any one).  

Think of it as similar to RAID5 or RAID6, but on demand.  A big difference however is that data disks are "vanilla", readable on any PC, contrarily to RAID5 solutions where losing 2 disks means ALL data is lost (3 for RAID6).

A side benefit of an off-line parity protection is that all but the active disk can be spun down, allowing cooler operation, contrarily to most forms of RAID protection

It is an off-line protection in the sense that I have to manually run a Sync operation after I add files to the server in order to have them protected.  I run an overnight Check operation (validating the whole array, including bit rot) weekly.  If a problem is found, I can run a Fix operation, to bring the array to the same state it was at the last Sync (after swapping in a replacement disk if needed).

I regularly copy the NAS content to the video server, in order to benefit from SnapRAID's bit rot protection.  If a Check operation flagged a problem within those files, I could run a Fix operation then copy back to the NAS the clean files.

Finally, I closely watch the SMART attributes of the disks in the array.  This can flag a developing problem before an error occurs.

Now, all this is convenient for me, but if you do not rip movies and do not have a big box server, I think that you still need to protect yourself against bit rot.  A relatively cheap insurance would be to buy one or two big disks and use SnapRAID locally, within your main PC.  Also keep in mind that off-site backup is a must (when feasible) !

Voilą, that's how I address the backup problem  ;D

Rudy
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nwboater

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2012, 02:39:22 pm »

Hi Rod, WHS (original) likes MBR drives with 512K sectors.  There have been some posts on how to use larger than 2TB drives (GPT and 4K) but.....  Here is one thread on it http://forum.wegotserved.com/index.php/topic/16580-guide-how-to-make-gpt-4k-sector-drives-and-3tb-drives-work-as-storage-pool-drives-in-whs-pp3/

I've moved to 4TB hdd on WHS11

Thanks jmone for the link. Looks like a mighty complicated solution for this half brain dead old f**t. Guess when I run out of space I'll upgrade the WHS OS and use Drive Bender, which I purchased but haven't used. Such a bummer that MS went backwards!

Cheers,
Rod
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jmone

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2012, 12:24:00 am »

Yup - I had to "upgrade" to WHS11 just for the HDD support, appart from that I found the original WHS to be much more setup and forget.  WHS11 seems to need constant TLC to keep it running in comparison which kinda defeats the purpose.  The "current" PITA with WHS11 is that it does not support GPT and anyway, MS has dumped WHS so at some point I'll need to find a new solution (cross post from WGS forum):

I've already worked out my Drive Pooling replacement (for me Drive Bender) but with my first Win8 PC I now find WHS will not support it (GPT Disk issue).

 So what other products are out there that provides the "goodness" that is in WHS:
 - Automated, Unattended Client and Server backups
 - Incremental backups (eg so you can roll back to a selected date)
 - Unique Cluster/File backup across multiple PC's and versions to keep the backup vol size manageable
 - Ability to do a bare metal install including the build of the bootup disk with drivers
 - Ability to open the backup and browse for files
 - Supports Win7 and Win8 (incl GPT)

 Could be a standalone OS (like WHS) or an app running on a Windows Box
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jmone

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Re: Backing up your music - what do you use?
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2012, 12:28:55 am »

rudyrednose - I agree.  RAID is not a backup soln at all but is designed to enhance available.  I too use one big pool of drives with sync toy to provide controlled and previewed backup to a separate (in another location) drive pool.  I too was excluding BD rips from this due to the size but have the originals on disc which was my backup for these.... however I just purchased a bunch more of the 4TB HDD as they are dirt cheap at US$189 at B&H at present (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/835056-REG/Hitachi_0S03355_4TB_SATA3_3_5_INTERNL.html).  I'm currently backing up 15TB to my newly expanded drive pool on the 10-Day WHS box.
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