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[glynor]

I have three different Handheld "devices" on my main copy of MC that I'd really, really like to be able to schedule to sync automatically in the middle of the night.  Is there any way to do this with the currently available MCC commands.  I know last I looked, the only way to specify them in a MCC was unreliable, but I haven't checked in on it in a while.

Can we specify a handheld by a name or unique key in the MCC command yet?  If it uses a unique key, is there any way to look up the key (even in the registry)?

EDIT:  I knew I'd asked before:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=62692.0

Been over a year.  Any change?  I need to do three different ones on a schedule.  How can I get the nDeviceSessionID?

[glynor]

Anyone, Anyone? Bueller?

I ask because I have another plan, which might be simpler.  If I can't schedule the multiple syncs described above now (or within the next short while), then I think I'd like to do this:

Sync my entire MC music library (and maybe static playlists of videos) regularly on a schedule to a folder on my main media drive in VBR High Quality Portable.  Then, I'll monitor that folder and import the files, but tag-on-import them somehow to make them easy to filter out of all of my regular views.  And then lastly use Prod's MCiS to keep that folder in sync with the iTunes's library.

In other words, sacrifice the drive space to deal with my FLAC files and wanting smaller files on my mobile devices.

I think you said from the other thread that I could use the existing sync MCC command with a 0 nDeviceSessionID and it would sync the first Handheld in the list, right?  So I should be able to schedule the first one, just not more than one, right?

Also, does anyone know if MCiS (I can look/ask in Prod's thread too) can sync to a copy of iTunes used/running on a separate computer from MC (preferably a Mac, but I'll take Windows if I have to), or does it have to be on the same system as the MC Server to work well?

[glynor]

I should note:  I'd prefer the direct sync of the three handhelds (if possible now) and even might switch back to it if possible in the future because this new plan is still clumsy (and drive-space intensive).

I need the files in MC to have MCiS sync them and keep their metadata under control.  But I certainly want to somehow filter those "cached, iTunes friendly, shrunken files" from my normal views in MC.  I don't ever want to see them separate from their "real" parents, and if I have the FLAC and you can get to it, play the FLAC.  But If I just filter them, then what about when my wife wants to add a new audiobook "manually" to her phone?  Now my system is this:  She just finds the audiobook like normal in MC, and adds it to "her" special, magic playlist.  If she wants something taken off, she just removes the files from her magic list.  The next time her phone syncs (which happens via WiFi automatically at night while she sleeps if "her copy" of iTunes is open), then those files will show up there and be removed... after I complete the process for her later that night.*

But if I filter all of those "iTunes-ready" files from my normal views in MC, and then she goes to add a FLAC file to her magic list, the system will break.

Stacking would seem to be the answer to this quandry, but I've had trouble constructing views and playlists dealing with stack members before (they seem to be affected by collapsed/uncollapsed "status" in the library).  Can I make it work with smartlists and whatnot to make it work with MCiS?  So that these files auto-import and auto-stack themselves after the scheduled handheld sync?  When she adds a stacked file to her manual playlist, it is then filtered by another Smart Playlist that only shows the appropriate stack member (which can then be synced by MCiS)?  What if the files have more than one stack member (a Flac, a big M4A with fancy artwork, and the MP3 high quality portable versions)?

I need to try MCiS again with this in mind... Perhaps it can help somewhat, but that thread is huge and I'm just explaining the rationale now anyway.

It makes me think though...  You were looking for SDK ideas.  MC 18 wide-eyed hopeful stuff here...

Wouldn't it be cool if MC could have Handheld plugins?  I imagine a system where the third-party plugin (like some future version of MCiS) could be added itself as a handheld to MC.  The plugin would define and expose its supported file types, metadata capabilities, storage location, capacity, and so on and so forth to MC's Handheld sync engine.  Then, the user could use the regular MC handheld tools and conversion engine to select playlists to sync and whatnot and then go.

I can imagine all sorts of nifty uses.  You could write a little plugin that sends video over to an external "transcoding or remuxing engine", and then re-imports and stacks the completed files as they finish (or maybe replaces the original references in MC's Library, preserving existing metadata).

That, plus the ability to schedule syncs with MCC commands would be awesome.

* The problem now with my system is that after she adds her files to her magic list, then she has to tell me to "finish it" for her.  I remember how to do it, she doesn't because it is a two-plus-step process (sync MC to the handheld, then sync iTunes with the handheld you just made, and lastly fix the metadata that doesn't come into iTunes right (audiobooks).  Hence the entire project because I don't remember and I get in trouble and then she gets discouraged and the whole thing doesn't happen too often which makes her grumble.

[MrC]

I'm unable to get MCC 23015 to do anything.  I assume the parameter is an integer, so the 1 or 2 needs to be left shifted into the hiword position:

   (2 << 16) + 0
     hiword   loword

Still, no syncing the default device.

I'm working from the bottom up on this problem, first focusing on the current issues with the basic sync in MC.  (I don't know if you've been following the conversation elsewhere).  So the process for me is multi-step currently:

  1) check sync on HH
  2) compare smartlist count w/HH count
  3) sync
  4) when HH count is incorrect, find / remove stale files
  5) recheck sync on HH, and sync again if necessary
  6) on the Mac, run rsync to mirror the converted music directory
  7) import that directory via iTunes
  8) use a set of smartlists to cull any stale iTunes entries
  9) run an iTunes script to update metadata from files

It is a painful process, 1/2 the current issues due to MC, the other due to iTunes.

[glynor]

(I don't know if you've been following the conversation elsewhere). 

Thanks for commenting!

I haven't really been lurking on the public board much lately.  I've been absurdly busy at work (and sick).

Links?

[MrC]

Sorry, here you go.  You're mentioned too!

   http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=71023

[glynor]

Okay... I think I've made some progress on this project (well, a workaround until the Handheld system improves anyway), but I need some help from you, MrC....

I need an expression that returns this for any given file:

The filename's path modified to omit the drive letter part (including the first slash), the filename itself, and (and this is the part I need help with) the trailing "\" character of the path.

In other words, I need to have an expression that takes these filenames:
M:\Audio\Audiobook\Gibson, William\Neuromancer\02 - Neuromancer 02-12.mp3
M:\Audio\Music\A\Arcade Fire\Funeral\06 - Crown Of Love.mp3
M:\Incoming\Crystal Castles\Not In Love (feat Robert Smith)\01 - Not In Love (feat Robert Smith).mp3

and turns them into this:
Audio\Audiobook\Gibson, William\Neuromancer
Audio\Music\A\Arcade Fire\Funeral
Incoming\Crystal Castles\Not In Love (feat Robert Smith)

I'll explain why later (it's late).  I can do everything easily using the Replace() function on the [Filename (path)] field, except for killing the trailing slash.  I think I'll need a RegEx to do that part.

[glynor]

Actually, I need help with one more expression too...

I need a second one to serve as the iTunesFileKey field for MCiS.  This field is how MCiS can map to an external sync location (like a cache) for file types that aren't supported by iTunes.

Anyhow... I need this (it is similar to the above task, but not the same): For any given file, I need to spit out its filename, modified to replace the "M:\" part, with "M:\iTunes_cache\".  However, I also need to change the file extensions for non-supported file types to the supported converted extension.

So, using the first of those examples above, the output would be just:
M:\iTunes_cache\Audio\Audiobook\Gibson, William\Neuromancer\02 - Neuromancer 02-12.mp3

However, if the "input filename" happened to be a FLAC, WAV, OGM or whatever audio file, it would then "become" a MP3 instead, like so...

Input files:

Code: [Select]

M:\Audio\Music\B\The Beatles\Abbey Road\12 - Polythene Pam.flac
M:\Audio\Music\G\Grateful Dead\1977-05-08 - Barton Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca, Ny (Ma\1\04 - They Love Each Other.ogm
M:\Audio\Music\A\Abba\Gold - Greatest Hits\01 - Dancing Queen.mp3
M:\Audio\Audiobook\Martin, George RR\Song of Ice and Fire 4 - A Feast For Crows\08 - Part 008.m4b

Output:

Code: [Select]

M:\iTunes_cache\Audio\Music\B\The Beatles\Abbey Road\12 - Polythene Pam.mp3
M:\iTunes_cache\Audio\Music\G\Grateful Dead\1977-05-08 - Barton Hall, Cornell University, Ithaca, Ny (Ma\1\04 - They Love Each Other.mp3
M:\iTunes_cache\Audio\Music\A\Abba\Gold - Greatest Hits\01 - Dancing Queen.mp3
M:\iTunes_cache\Audio\Audiobook\Martin, George RR\Song of Ice and Fire 4 - A Feast For Crows\08 - Part 008.m4b
As you can see, I'm converting FLAC files to MP3s, and OGMs to MP3s, but leaving the M4B file alone.  In other words, I'm setting MC to sync using the Handheld sync to create these files, with the supported file types list set to: mp3;mp4;m4a;m4v;m4p;m4b;m4r;jpg

I need those "supported types" to have their iTunes key field match the original file name exactly with only the M:\iTunes_cache\ folder added at the beginning, but for all other unsupported types (mostly Flac and OGM files for audio), I need the output to both add the folder and change the file type to .mp3.  Does this make sense?

I have an expression started that does exactly this, but the way I'm doing it, I have to test for each and every possible file type manually, like this:

Code: [Select]

IfElse( IsEqual([File Type],flac,1), Replace([Filename (path)],M:\,M:\iTunes_cache\)Replace([Filename (name)],flac,mp3), 1, Replace([Filename (path)],M:\,M:\iTunes_cache\)[Filename (name)] )
That's just for flac.  I need to turn Flac, OGM, and WAV into MP3 (but leave M4A and M4B alone).  I don't think my way of doing it is very clean, though... Right now, my sync list only includes those three types (flac, ogm, and wav) that would need converted, but what if a WMA file or something slips in?

So, it would be better to do it logically this way:

If File Type is (MP3, M4B, M4R, M4A, etc) then just add the iTunes_cache folder to the beginning of the path.
ELSE Output the path with the new folder at the beginning, and change the file extension to mp3.

Once I get that working, I'd like to modify it to work on video too (AVI becoming MP4, but M4V staying M4V).

[leezer3]

Not MrC, but I think this regex is what you're after for the path, assuming I've remembered the regex variant right:

Code: [Select]

(?:\w:\\)(.*\\)Use capturing group 1 in your MC expression to pull off the path

Going out right now, but will take a closer look at the second problem if MrC hasn't got that far when I get home

-Leezer-

[MrC]

I'm assuming you want to maintain the same drive letter when adding the \iTunes_cache\ component, so here's a suggested solution:

regex([Filename], /#^([A-Z]:)\\(.+)\.([^.]+)$#/, -1)/
   [R1]\iTunes_cache\[R2]./
if(regex([Filename (name)], /#\.(mp3|mp4|m4a|m4v|m4p|m4b|m4r|jpg)$#/),
   [R1], mp3)

This grabs the Drive specifier and path component, and replaces the root folder \ with \iTunes_cache.  It then matches the filename's suffix against the supported types; if matched (supported), the suffix is unmodified, otherwise mp3 is output instead.

The solution would be a little simpler if Replace() had a mode to replace the Nth occurrence only, or there was a RegexReplace() function; then you could more trivially and directly replace the root path component with \iTunes_cache.

[glynor]

I'm assuming you want to maintain the same drive letter when adding the \iTunes_cache\ component, so here's a suggested solution:

regex([Filename], /#^([A-Z]\\(.+)\.([^.]+)$#/, -1)/
   [R1]\iTunes_cache\[R2]./
if(regex([Filename (name)], /#\.(mp3|mp4|m4a|m4v|m4p|m4b|m4r|jpg)$#/),
   [R1], mp3)

Actually, good point, I hadn't considered that last night.  The source could be any drive letter (in practice, almost certainly always M or T, but you never know), but the destination will always be M:\iTunes_cache\<something_matching_source_path>.

Basically, this is the deal:

1. I'm creating a handheld in MC that syncs my entire music collection (minus a few odd things that I want excluded, but most everything) over to M:\iTunes_cache\, and using MC's handheld function to convert the various formats in my collection to iTunes-friendly formats.

2. I need the first Expression I asked about to use as the Audio Path rule in the handheld configuration, so that the file path and naming always matches the source file path exactly, just inside the M:\iTunes_cache\ folder (which is the path specified when you set up the "handheld").  Most of my files have a defined folder structure, so I could use that, except for new imports, which get dumped into M:\incoming\ until I deal with them and apply a Rename, Move, and Copy rule on them (which can sometimes take a long while because I'm lazy).

3. Then, MCiS allows you to create a [iTunesFileKey] field that it uses when syncing to iTunes instead of using the source files in MC directly.  This is just a calculated field you add to MC itself, and was added to MCiS specifically to support syncing things like FLAC files.  This is that second expression I need, which you pretty much just got above.

So I'd just need to tweak that expression you wrote above to replace the drive letter instead of just the first "\".  I can probably figure that out, but I'll need to play with it.

This should work... I can just sync my entire MC music library (and video and other stuff "on demand" using a manual "magic" playlist) using the Handheld definition.  Hopefully I can schedule this to happen automatically once a day, but it really only needs to be done to get newly imported content into iTunes, so if it has to be manual, it isn't the end of the world.

Then MCiS can sync Playlists and Playlist Groups over to iTunes (including Smartlists, which it converts to static lists in iTunes), and it can be scheduled.  So, I'll have MCiS sync my "iPod lists" over to iTunes every day.

Then, I'll just configure my phones/iPad in iTunes to sync using those lists.

I'm going to sacrifice a big pile of hard drive space to duplicates only for iTunes, but that isn't the end of the world.  Drive space is cheap, and my music collection is comparatively small when MP3 compressed (unlike the video collection).

[MrC]

In that case, here's a simpler version:

M:\iTunes_cache\RemoveLeft([Filename (path)], 3)/
if(regex([Filename (name)], /#\.(mp3|mp4|m4a|m4v|m4p|m4b|m4r|jpg)$#/),
   [Filename (name)], Filename(,0).mp3)

Strips the first 3 components from the path (e.g. M:\) and appends the desired M:\iTunes_cache\.  I did it this way, so you can assign the value to a library field (e.g. [_iTunesCacheFolder]) and replace "M:\iTunes_cache" above with [_iTunesCacheFolder].

[glynor]

In that case, here's a simpler version:

M:\iTunes_cache\RemoveLeft([Filename (path)], 3)/
if(regex([Filename (name)], /#\.(mp3|mp4|m4a|m4v|m4p|m4b|m4r|jpg)$#/),
   [Filename (name)], Filename(,0).mp3)

Works perfectly, and brilliant, of course.  Thanks again.

* glynor bows to the wizard.

[glynor]

Awesome.  It seems to be working.  And, if this new handheld is the ONLY one I have defined in my list, then mc17.exe /mcc 23015, 0 does trigger it to run.

I think MC itself has to be running, but on this machine it already is, and that'd be easy enough to solve with other MC command line options in a script.

I have two calculated fields now:

[Handheld Audio Path] - RemoveRight(RemoveLeft([Filename (Path)], 3), 1)

[iTunesFileKey] - The Regex suggested by MrC above, with the suggested modification for if I ever move the sync location.

I'm running my first test, but it looks like it is going to work!

[glynor]

MrC... I don't know if you saw that above, but it seems you were overthinking the MCC command a bit.  Just use parameter 0 to sync the default list.

I'm not sure yet if it requires you to only have the one handheld device to work reliably, or if it always uses the top one even if there are multiple.  I do want to add a second one for manual runs and other stuff, so I'll be trying that later.

I did discover one little gotcha with the suggested expression you posted above... It was inserting a space before the file's name.

I'm using this and it seems to be working:

[iTunesFileKey] M:\iTunes_cache\RemoveLeft([Filename (path)], 3)if(regex([Filename (name)],/#\.(mp3|mp4|m4a|m4v|m4p|m4b|m4r|jpg)$#/),[Filename (name)],Filename(,0).mp3)

I removed my fancier method of allowing the M:\iTunes_cache\ item to be a field instead of just a string while I was debugging this, but that wasn't the problem.  The problem was the escaped space before the if() function from your example.

I'm not sure why you had that there, but I took it out and it works.

I think this is going to work splendidly.  It is costing me around half-a-TB of storage, but that's a small price to pay.  I might move the storage off of my M drive at some point though...  Either that or modify my method to only sync non-supported file types to the iTunes cache, and leave the mp3s, m4a, m4b, and other mp4 files pointing to their original source files.

I doubt I'll do that, though.  I like this method, even though it creates a ton of duplicates, for two reasons:

1. it allows me to use MC's High Quality Portable compression mode for all of the MP3s synced to my devices, which saves a bunch of space.

2. it is safer.  iTunes never touches my "real" files, only copies.

[MrC]

Bow received and humbly acknowledged.

Sorry for the delay -  Wifey and I were out planting and gardening all day.

I think I only have one HH defined, at least if I understood the registry entries correctly.  The 0 param didn't seem to do anything, so I tried other values to see what the problem might have been.  But I was unable to get it to succeed.  Maybe I'll try again tomorrow.

The escape at the end of the line was escaping the newline (and not a space) to allow the expression to span lines.  But that won't work in a single-line entry area such as the Rename dialog.  Sorry, I'd forgotten that's where you were ultimately going to use the expression.

Good to hear its working out!

As ever, your plebeian servant.

[glynor]

Well...

I think I spoke too soon.  With my whole library imported (in the converted form) into iTunes, I was actually shocked at how well iTunes was performing.  Unfortunately, the initial sync with MCiS worked fine, but subsequent syncs have been terribly unreliable and slow (even when literally nothing changed, I was just trying to sync again as tests).  I'm not sure why, but I suspect (from comments from prod and others in the MCiS thread) that the iTunes API doesn't behave as well when you have a 50k+ library imported, but who knows...  Either way, in three attempts to re-sync after the initial sync, they all failed in one way or another (usually with iTunes itself locking up 25k+ or so files into the update, or just stalling out forever completely).

Anyway, it seems I'm going back to just syncing my set of Smart/Playlists for my mobile devices over to the iTunes Cache.  That's fine, and MCiS will still work the same way, and can handle syncing only the items matching the playlists.  But... I'm back to needing to sync more than one Handheld in MC on a schedule after all.

The main reason that I was syncing my whole library all at once is that I also want a full iTunes compatible set of my music to use in iTunes on my Macs.  My plan was to do this:

1. Sync my whole library via a "All Worthwhile Audio" Smartlist using an "iTunes" Handheld in MC.

2. Use MCiS to sync this entire library to a copy of iTunes running on the same PC (or maybe eventually in a VM to keep iTunes from crapping up my main Server).  MCiS can also sync over playlists and smartlists to MC (not just the contents, but the actual lists).  So, I was just going to do that and then set iTunes to sync the different lists to my various devices.  The issue is that my Wife wants different files than I want.  We always used two separate copies of iTunes for this, but that's a pain, and it has been preventing this "automated" setup.

3. Separately, schedule SyncBack to copy the entire set of files in the iTunes_cache folder over to my Mac's file share, so that it has a copy for use in iTunes.  I already use nice applescripts I found to sync music to my copy of iTunes there, and they work well.  I don't use iTunes often on my Macs (as I have MC in a VM on them), but it does come in handy in certain circumstances (file sharing with devices and whatnot).  And, I thought that I might turn on iTunes Match at some point on one of them.

But, since I can't get MCiS and iTunes to behave on Windows when it contains my full ~50k item audio library, I can't do it that way!

Essentially, I was trying to kill two birds with one stone.  I already had a handheld on MC that synced that same "All Worthwhile Audio" smartlist over to my Mac's file share, in addition to my various iPhone-syncing handhelds, I've just always run it manually.  That's why it effectively doubled the drive cost (not quite, because the iTunes_cache folder on M: is still going to be 25GB or so when used just for handheld files).  It forced me to keep a full-sized cache of the iTunes files on both my Mac's file share and on my M: drive, in order to be able to use SyncBack to sync over to the drive and use the same cache for syncing my Handhelds.

So, I'm not going back to the bad old way... But I am going to need two separate Handhelds.  One to sync to my Windows copy of iTunes, where MCiS can sync my iDevices, and the second to sync the whole "All Worthwhile Audio" list over directly to my Mac's file share again.  For now, I'm going to schedule the Mobile Device one, and not the Mac one (which I'll run manually), but that means my Mac is still going to be constantly out of date, which is a pain.

Darn.

[glynor]

So, I really still need to schedule more than one Handheld sync.  This just seems like a very worthwhile feature for a general audience anyway.

* I imagine many people would want to sync their Android and Windows Mobile devices with MC.  It is an awesome feature.

* I imagine lots of households have two smartphones, and the spouses/partners don't always want the same music (or, in my case, Audiobooks, mainly) synced to their devices.

* I imagine those same people would, almost universally, prefer to have the sync scheduled (preferably via WiFi) to happen automatically in the middle of the night, if they could.  The iPhone has this feature, and I imagine people are starting to expect it on other devices as well.  And, especially if the sync process is a little fiddly in MC and we want to keep the spouses happy with our beautiful MC solutions.  Scheduled automatically is invisible.

This is worth doing.

I totally understand that it might be a MC18 thing, since we're on the cusp a bit here, and that's fine.  But, it has been more than a year since that previous thread I linked way up in the original post.  MC needs better Handheld support generally (it is so close I can taste it, but it is creaky around the edges), but it really needs a simple way to sync named handhelds via a command line.  Come on, guys, you can do it! 

[glynor]

Grrr... This plan isn't working either.  The problem is that my "Mobile Device Lists" are all randomly generated.  So, when I sync the "handheld" in MC it ends up with one file list, and then (even immediately thereafter) when MCiS syncs using those same lists, it comes up with a different file list, so only the files that happen to match sync over to iTunes.

Sigh.  MC needs better handheld support!  The idea for allowing plugins to act as handhelds seems like the best possible option.

[glynor]

I got this working reliably finally.  Or mostly reliably.  I had to give up on a few things (like Converting High Bitrates, for example), but I got it working well over the past couple days.

I'll post over on the MCiS to fully describe my final setup (with maybe a little bit about how I got there).

FYI, though:  I also had to abandon my plan to use the Filename (Path) based [Handheld Audio Path] system.  It worked for files that it didn't need to convert.  But for any files it needed to convert, they ended up syncing to M:\iTunes_cache\Users\glynor\AppData\Roaming\....etc.  MC converts to the temp storage location and then copies the files to the destination.  So, using that fancy Filename based [Handheld Audio Path] system to replicate my original drive layout inside the M:\iTunes_cache\ directory didn't work for those files, because to MC it looked like they were coming from that temp folder in my AppData directory.

I came up with a suitable system though, based on regular file tags.  It isn't quite as clean in a few instances, but those don't matter much.  For the most part, MCiS seems to be working well (I have some issues there too, but it is passable).

[glynor]

Can someone move this to the main board?

KThanxBye.