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Author Topic: Media Network setup with Soundbridge and wma lossless - Help!  (Read 2840 times)

rknox

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Media Network setup with Soundbridge and wma lossless - Help!
« on: December 18, 2012, 01:57:28 am »

I am a Media Center newbie - looking forward to exploring computer audio.   I was drawn however to MC because of its dlna controller capability.

I have been streaming wma lossless to two Roku Soundbridge devices (m500/m1000) for several years.   I know they are getting old but still work wonderfully as rendering devices.   I sometimes use the cidero controller to sync playback on the two rokus, but it is very out of date.

So, I thought I would try out MC and became intrigued with the management, controller and zone capabilities of MC.  Unfortunately I have had limited success using MC with the soundbridges.   I have several hundred albums in wma lossless format on a whs server with Microsoft wmc.   As I mentioned this works flawlessly streaming directly to the Rokus.  Here's my experience:

- I started with the latest 18 release but could not get any format to play on the Roku.  I am aware of the limitation of the Roku Soundbridge (RS) in that it can't handle wma lossless native.  But the RS can detect high bit rate wma and request wave file transcoding.   Again this works fine directly with wmc.   In my early attempts therefore I tried mp3 and m4a files in addition to wma lossless, suspicious that there might be transcoding issues.   But I could not stream any format through MC.
- next I played around with versions 16 (still no luck) and version 15 where today I finally was able to control and play mp3 and m4a files.   Wma lossless still won't work however.
- during my testing I was able to verify other configurations.  First, after MC discovered my wmc server library, on all versions (18, 16, 15) I am able to stream wma lossless to the MC player.   This confirms that my wmc server is properly recognized by MC.   And of course MC supports wma lossless so everything works great.  Second, I copied a few wma lossless files to my local PC and used my soundbridge dlna server config to play these files directly to the Rokus.   This made me quite hopeful, as MC and/or RS successfully transcoded my wma lossless files to wave lossless so that they play on the RS.
- with the RS connected to the soundbridge dlna server, I can navigate my full wmc library from the RS further suggesting things are properly setup.

Finally, one other strange thing is that there are five (5) copies of each song (file) in the loaded WMC server library.  Not so for local main library files, but for each and every song loaded as part of my server library.   The files still play as described but no idea why I see multiple versions of the same file ...

It seems to me that I have shown that 2 or 3 key pieces of the controlling equation work.   Yet I can't get the wma lossless to play when I am using the MC as a controller. 

Any advice would be appreciated.  Has anyone had success with this setup?  Shouldn't this work?  Did MC stop working with Rokus at some point, as suggested by some other posts?   Is there a way to debug my setup?

- rknox
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rknox

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Re: Media Network setup with Soundbridge and wma lossless - Help!
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 03:12:58 pm »

I am a Media Center newbie - looking forward to exploring computer audio.   I was drawn however to MC because of its dlna controller capability.

I have been streaming wma lossless to two Roku Soundbridge devices (m500/m1000) for several years.   I know they are getting old but still work wonderfully as rendering devices.   I sometimes use the cidero controller to sync playback on the two rokus, but it is very out of date.

So, I thought I would try out MC and became intrigued with the management, controller and zone capabilities of MC.  Unfortunately I have had limited success using MC with the soundbridges.   I have several hundred albums in wma lossless format on a whs server with Microsoft wmc.   As I mentioned this works flawlessly streaming directly to the Rokus.  Here's my experience:

- I started with the latest 18 release but could not get any format to play on the Roku.  I am aware of the limitation of the Roku Soundbridge (RS) in that it can't handle wma lossless native.  But the RS can detect high bit rate wma and request wave file transcoding.   Again this works fine directly with wmc.   In my early attempts therefore I tried mp3 and m4a files in addition to wma lossless, suspicious that there might be transcoding issues.   But I could not stream any format through MC.
- next I played around with versions 16 (still no luck) and version 15 where today I finally was able to control and play mp3 and m4a files.   Wma lossless still won't work however.
- during my testing I was able to verify other configurations.  First, after MC discovered my wmc server library, on all versions (18, 16, 15) I am able to stream wma lossless to the MC player.   This confirms that my wmc server is properly recognized by MC.   And of course MC supports wma lossless so everything works great.  Second, I copied a few wma lossless files to my local PC and used my soundbridge dlna server config to play these files directly to the Rokus.   This made me quite hopeful, as MC and/or RS successfully transcoded my wma lossless files to wave lossless so that they play on the RS.
- with the RS connected to the soundbridge dlna server, I can navigate my full wmc library from the RS further suggesting things are properly setup.

Finally, one other strange thing is that there are five (5) copies of each song (file) in the loaded WMC server library.  Not so for local main library files, but for each and every song loaded as part of my server library.   The files still play as described but no idea why I see multiple versions of the same file ...

It seems to me that I have shown that 2 or 3 key pieces of the controlling equation work.   Yet I can't get the wma lossless to play when I am using the MC as a controller. 

Any advice would be appreciated.  Has anyone had success with this setup?  Shouldn't this work?  Did MC stop working with Rokus at some point, as suggested by some other posts?   Is there a way to debug my setup?

- rknox


Can anyone at least offer any suggestions on why I get 6 copies of each song?  Per last post I am using a Microsoft wmc Server.   See attached.

Thanks,
  rknox
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cncb

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Re: Media Network setup with Soundbridge and wma lossless - Help!
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 07:21:31 am »

It sounds like you are playing/streaming from the Windows built-in music server?  If so, instead you will want to import all your music files directly into an MC Library (File|Library|Import) and serve from there where you can easily apply file format conversion in the MC DLNA server, etc.
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-Craig    MO 4Media remote and player:  Android/TV/Auto | iOS | Windows 10/UWP

rknox

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Re: Media Network setup with Soundbridge and wma lossless - Help!
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 12:25:40 pm »

It sounds like you are playing/streaming from the Windows built-in music server?  If so, instead you will want to import all your music files directly into an MC Library (File|Library|Import) and serve from there where you can easily apply file format conversion in the MC DLNA server, etc.

Thanks cncb for your reply.    Yes, I have a music server setup on a separate windows home server (WHS).   I am not really looking to make MC my server;  rather I want to use it as a client and a controller for other dlna devices, using my existing server environment as is.   Using MC as the client, I have no trouble playing music that is streamed from my Server - the problem I do have is that I am seeing 6 copies of each file/song.   I attached a graphic of this in my last post.   This does not seem to make sense - afterall MC is intended to play music streamed from an external Server is it not?

Secondly, I would really like to be able to control the two Roku Soundbridge devices I use to play music through systems in different rooms.  Ideally, I would like to take advantage of the ability to link zones to play music to those devices simultaneously.  However, as noted in my first post, I am not able to control a single Soundbridge properly.  I had some success with some music formats on earlier versions of MC, but I can't get a Soundbridge to work at all using MC18.   I have searched extensively in this forum and noticed that there have been a few individuals who have wanted to do similar things but there never seems to be resolution to their issues.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.   

Regards,
   rknox


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cncb

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Re: Media Network setup with Soundbridge and wma lossless - Help!
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 09:07:01 am »

Sorry, I can't really help as I have never used MC in that way.  You might want to consider importing just a few songs into MC to try it out as the server to see if you get better results and might like more control over the conversion, etc.
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-Craig    MO 4Media remote and player:  Android/TV/Auto | iOS | Windows 10/UWP

rknox

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Re: Media Network setup with Soundbridge and wma lossless - Help!
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 10:13:21 pm »

Sorry, I can't really help as I have never used MC in that way.  You might want to consider importing just a few songs into MC to try it out as the server to see if you get better results and might like more control over the conversion, etc.

OK, I made some progress.   I created a new library and imported my full Server library.   This worked well - I hadn't realized that "Import" in MC just creates a database of your actual files.  In other players, import often means physically creating/copying files in a directory on your local PC.    The newly created library had just one entry per file/song finally (instead of 6) and in fact I am now able to play those wma lossless files on the Soundbridge.   It doesn't work all that eloquently - the first time you send files to the Soundbridge player, it skips the first 3 or 4 songs before finally starting to play.   Once that happens, it seems to allow consistent playback until the server disconnects for some reason.   Finally,  the biggest disappointment was in testing my ultimate objective of linking the two Soundbridge zones, this performed quite poorly.  My experience was large delays between zones, and the adjustment control did little or nothing to rectify the delay.  Unfortunately that is a dealbreaker for using MC for this purpose.   I had read performance for dlna devices on MC was not great but I didn't expect it to be unusable.   As I had mentioned previously, I still use a dated version of Cidero software to link and play music simultaneously through both Soundbridges.   By comparison Cidero works very well, with near perfect synchronization.   It does make me wonder why JRiver couldn't do a better job here.  To be fair, the Cidero developer set out to provide this functionality on Soundbridges, and it only works well when your Soundbridges are the same model; on the other hand I'm pretty sure it was written by a single person!  One could argue that the real value of MC is not as a controller, but why then go to all the effort of creating dlna functionality and servers and zones and links if the result is so poor?

At some point I may make use of MC as a standalone audio player.  I like the ability to control the sound path.  I was also intrigued by the Theater mode.  Maybe if MC eventually supports cablecard tuners, it could be a good replacement for Windows Media Center.   A few other thoughts from what ended up being an informal evaluation:

- generally the player is quite complex, with a lot of options and ways of configuring things, particuarly when you turn on the Media Network functionality.   It creates servers which seems weird in an environment that as it turns out can't connect to external dlna servers (see below).  They do at least show up on your client with a recognizable name so that part is good.   MC discovers dlna clients, but they don't do anything unless you associate a dlna server with them. Or do they ... ?   Hard to know because there is virtually no documentation on the purpose and functionality of these constructs.  And good luck figuring out what the advance options do for a server.
- further, MC also discovers dlna servers (like my home server based wmc collection), but even though it looks exactly like a Server source looks like on a client/render, it is not actally a streaming source.  Turns out it is a library, but the library doesn't do anything ... unless you realize that it really then starts to autoimport all the file information from your server.  So it really isn't a dlna server at all anymore, it is a MC library.  But the autoimporting, at least for Microsoft wmc server, doesn't work because it in fact imports 6 different file versions of the same song.  Why 6?  And those imports only work with the local player, not with a dlna zone (I achieved my success above in the end by ignoring this auto-discovered library and instead creating a new library and then importing my Server collection by specifying the explicit destination folders).
- it would be really helpful if there was better documentation on libraries, importing, the different dlna configuration options etc.  I would guess that there are probably only a handful of basic setups - ways in which 99% of people would use MC functions in their networked environment.  Why not document these with actual examples of how they work:   as a standalone music player, as a multiPC synced arrangement, as a Server, as a controller, as a renderer etc.   

rknox

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