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[jtrix]

IS there any benefit in playback qulaity converting from MP3 to WAV.  If so
is there an automatic way of doing this.
Its a very good program!

[ZRocker]

No benefit...you can't get orange juice from an apple.

[Michael Horton]

>>>No benefit...you can't get orange juice from an apple.
I like that.

here's another:

you can't get an orange from the juice (what's lost in making the mp3/juice is not retrievable)

[zevele1]

You may get a little improvement.Cause of a stereo effect wider.But as i said a little one not really worth the side of the wav
You may get better cds if you do mp3=wav=cd.But not that much better

[Scronch]

I think jtrix needs a little more explanation.  An example many people are familiar with is converting an image file, like a color bitmap BMP, to a JPEG.  The JPEG standard provides lossy compression.  "Compression" means the result is smaller than the original.  "Lossy" means some stuff is thrown away--that means if you convert the JPEG back to the color BMP, it doesn't look as good as the original BMP (even though it may take as much space).  Similarly, a Wave file might contain all the detail from a song taken off of a CD.  But when you convert it to mp3, you are applying lossy compression.  The same meanings of "compression" and "lossy" apply.  If you are unhappy with the quality of the mp3 files you have, you need to go back to the source of the file (like the CD), and re-rip to a better format (or find a ripped file of better quality).  For example, an mp3 at a higher bitrate (like 192 or 256 kbps instead of 128).  Or much better, the APE format from Monkey's Audio (near and dear to JRiver), which is a LOSSLESS compression standard.  APE is like PKZip or Winzip, in that it compresses the file but you can always get the EXACT original file back out of it.  APE typically gives you roughly 2:1 compression.  MP3 gives you a LOT more compression (meaning you can fit a lot more songs on your hard drive or portable player), but at the cost of reduced quality.  One of the major questions you need to ask yourself is: how old are your ears?

Scronch

[zevele1]

Scronch
I think there is a problem from the start with the word compression
If you compress something,you compress the whole thing and you still have the whole thing on another shape.And,on a technical point of view ,you can decompress it and get the whole thing on his previous original shape.This is the case with WAV,APE and other formats
Mp3 is not compression,it is reduction.Except for prices and taxes,there is no way you get back to the original shape and size after you have reduce it

[Scronch]

Zev - While I agree with your point, reduction is also a poor word because of its mathematical connotations.  Anyway, compression is their word, not mine:

http://www.jpeg.org/public/jpeghomepage.htm

The best known standard from JPEG is IS 10918-1 (ITU-T T.81), which is the first of a multi-part set of standards for still image compression.

http://www.mpeg.org

MPEG (pronounced M-peg), which stands for Moving Picture Experts Group, is the name of family of standards used for coding audio-visual information (e.g., movies, video, music) in a digital compressed format.

The major advantage of MPEG compared to other video and audio coding formats is that MPEG files are much smaller for the same quality. This is because MPEG uses very sophisticated compression techniques.

[zevele1]

I know it is not "your word"
To tell you the true ,i gave up with all this stuff.After hours and hours of test
First i do not rip my cds
Most of the music i got from Emusic and p2p is 128kps.Unlike you i think 128kps is acceptable
Thousand lps you can listen to at $10 a month,even at 128 is acceptable.But if they give 192kps in the future,i will download all again and rip again it on mp3 encoded cds
I do not burn cds from mp3.I do not see the point,and i have an "old"cdwritter -x4.I can do mp3 cds at x2 but if i want a no problem red cd x1 is the only way.I still have a lot of 7" on mini-disc that i need to burn ,but it is just a pain in the ... to do it
I had a try to mp3pro-a lot of dynamic on trebles but so weak on bass
Having some concerts from bands with 10|PLS| minutes songs,i use MPC,and it sounds quitte good
In my opinion mp3 192kps is a good compromise
Now,i just normalize mp3.I am the kind of person who DO NOT understand  that there is below mark 5 on a volume button.I jupped to the point to have heart attack....
I will buy soon the stereo-link{?] you and others spoke about in another post and just listen to music,no matter the kps rate
Anyway ,since vinyl,the sound quality is downhill

Have a nice sunday

[Scronch]

Zev -

I agree with you that mp3 192kbps is a good compromise.  Even 160kbps is very good.  At 128kbps, for the most part, the music sounds good; it's just that once in a while I hear something strange that shouldn't be there.  Not a hiccup or blurb in the ripping, more like a loss of registration for half-a-second or so.

The whole concept of vinyl is really interesting.  When the albums are very clean and the equipment very good (including an older-style, not-so-bright [i.e. slower roll-off rate] amp), the sound is very soothing.  And yet, I think a CD, and hence an ape file or high bitrate mp3, is closer to the original performance.  So it is very interesting that a huge audience prefers the LP sound to the "real thing".  My LP's are in horrible condition.  Too many moves, a good but not great cartridge, and just the abuses of time in general.

Anyway, when eMusic switches over to 160 or 192kbps, I may give them a try.  I think it would be very cool if they or someone else would offer each tune in a couple of formats--say mp3 192kbps and ape.  Matt, you may be buying up Christmas Lake soon.

Scronch

[zevele1]

As you say lps on a from fair to very good stereo are better.If you have a "one block"stereo with "all plastic" turnable,no way,cds are better
And not all the lps sound much better.Some pressings are just terrible.To old now to keep the hardcore collector line,i do mix original sleeves with Repertoire german reeditions.They sound much better than the original us pressing.The half speed mastered are just fantastic and "the new"Hendrix on 180 grammes virgin vinyl from analogue tape will let you voice less

It is not only the sound.Many times the fact to have to turn the record put you again in the music.With the cd ,you lost focus.But not allways true,Electric Laydyland,Daydream Nation without a break give you more
Mp3 128kps was a good format if you think of moden 56 connection and small drives.How big was your first hard-drive?Even now,i do not know in States,but here most of the new computers at
Office Depot have a 40GB,few have a 60GB
Asking do not cost as we say here,so i would like Emusic to have 192 kps mp3
Ape is still to big.We need a 1\4 lossless format.In this case i will acept a no redcd burnable limitation,if to put the format on data cds possible

Did you read my 2 posts about Genesis? If not i will repost it.You gave me BIG surprise with this 2cds.And many worries to friends when they saw this 2 cds in my collection..........

Not sure the cd sound is the real sound.I been many time in studio.When the band war up you get the same sound on the vinyl ,not on the cd

[Charlemagne 8]

This thread has departed drastically from the original question so I hope jtrix got his (generic "his" ... different thread) answer because I'm not helping because everything has been said about that subject. Now on to this new subject.
Lots of thoughts so forgive me if I ramble.
When I was 18 and got my first full-time job, the first thing I bought was a brand new 1970 Ford Van. No Ford comments, please. I put multi-hundred-thousand miles on that little 302 before I got drunk and let it freeze and break. Regrets. Irrelevant.

My second purchase was the absolute best stereo equipment that I could buy. So it has been since. I use the best I can afford. Some of it is pretty old. I still have the original Advent speakers (recently rebuilt) but everything else has evolved. I have attended multiple concerts and more than once got the front row. I have also sat in the control booth (as a visitor) during some recordings. I have listened to countless albums and tapes.
When CD players first came out, I went to see one at my local Hi-Fi Buys. The selection of available CD's was pretty poor. The single CD player cost about $800. But the thing that I noticed about a CD is that the sound quality was at the level of quality that most audiophiles used to pay (or in my case WISHED I could pay) thousands of dollars to achieve. Noise reducers, click and scratch removers, full frequency sound reproduction. The only problem was that the CD's sounded TOO bright ... almost harsh. But that was in comparison to vinyl. The chain from vinyl to speakers to get ALL of the sound is VERY expensive. I recently saw a phono cartridge for $3,500. I usually stay around the $80 to $160 range for a cartridge. The turntables are also expensive for a good one. The amplifiers can run around a grand for the THD to be down to acceptable levels and the RMS output to be up to acceptable levels. The speakers ... the single most important piece of equipment in the whole chain ... can go very, very high. (Ever priced a pair of Klipschorns?) They're called "reference speakers" and vary widely in price but ALL are expensive.
But now with a good amp and a decent speaker system, a $100 CD player can get you there.
Unrealistic sound? Maybe. But isn't that relative to what you have established over the years as "normal"? And THAT is relative to what you were prepared to spend on sound equipment.
Most peoples hearing is not that good, anyway. Especially in the higher frequencies, which is where CD's excel. My wife can HEAR the highs but they are very unpleasant to her. I prefer to hear ALL of the music ... both very high and very low and everything in between. I LIKE to be able to hear Keith Moon walk back into the room, sit down on his stool, pick up his drumsticks and begin wailing away at the drum re-intro in "Won't Get Fooled Again". That is not discernable on vinyl. Most of my vinyl has been smoke damaged, anyway.
Now I don't know bout DDD recordings because there's none I would buy because of the CONTENT, not the quality. The warning on AAD, and more recently on remastered ADD CD's is wonderful. It "might reveal limitations in the master recording tapes". That kind of quality is what I have been striving for for more than 30 years.

Opinions. We all have them. That was mine. Have a good day.

CVIII

[zevele1]

For once,not on your side
Concerning stereo gear.In France i know few people who can speak hours about they stereo,but they NEVER speak about the music
Yes with few $100 you can get an acceptable sound,if not noise.sub standart is more and more the rule.But you do not have to spend big money on a stereo system  to get good stuff
The best price\quality turnable on the market is the Rega at 400 english pounds.If you listen to rock,couple a pair of europeans speakers -for the "round sound" with a pair of JBL
I played lps to my nephews an an old stereo with a Dual turnable.And they do,as i,heard the difference.I start to wonder what most of you on this post did with your lps.Noises,clicks and scratchs are not part of my listening.My 30 years old lps are still in a mint |PLS| condition
It is sure that the cds have better sound now.But come to me with your Hendrix new edition cds,after them we will play my vinyls of the same edition..you will cry.Come with your live Nirvana,when playing my lp,you will jump,sure that i moved the volume 2 numbers up.
But i never can move up the volume by two numbers,i will need number 11 to do it!
I play only loud,because of it maybee i heard the difference
When i say loud ,i mean it,trust me

Another thing:my 5 years old Denon cd player id dead,as the cd who was inside.I am still waiting for my turnable to have problem.And i play much much more lps than cds

[Charlemagne 8]

I could have this ame discussion about Ford Trucks versus Chevrolet Trucks. I have had very good results with Fords and crappy results with Chevys. My experiences are not everybody elses experiences. Consequently my opinions are not either.
Same with CocaCola and Pepsi. Democrats and Republicans. Christians and Unitarians. I always seem to take the road less travelled.
My opinions are of necessity based on my experiences. As are yours. We are both right because we're talking about personal preferences. There is no wrong one ... unless it's illegal.
My vinyl is in as good a shape as can be expected. But there ARE small scratches. Can't help it. Even new vinyl has discernable scratches. Part of the manufacturing and handling process. ANOTHER way that the RIAA has been screwing us for the last 30 years.
Peace,
C8

[Scronch]

Zev, last I recall, you were listening to Foxtrot, but your father was staying with you.  CVIII, I think the road less traveled would be neither Democrat nor Republican.  Those roads are near worn out, I'm afraid.

I still enjoy spinning my vinyl from time to time.  But turning or changing the LP every 25 mins gets old.  The real advantage of digital music is having MJ to manage it and prepare smartlists for me.

Scronch

[zevele1]

Anyway,this is a never ending debate,so better to close it
The most important thing is that we like-love music.No matter wich kind,and how
Someone said-i do not remember who-to never trust people who do not like music.
One day i saw in a french news paper that there is a group"against the music" at the Assemblee Nationale [Congress for you?]From every side,labour,rigth,communist.
And you know what?since years i had dislike all of this people ,even the one on my political side.Reading the article i understood why.I did not know they do not like music,just they been so much unfriendly people.
Will post you my Genesis chronicles next week,my father is going back to France
Karolus
Try to listen to a Half-speed mastered lp or to a new Hendrix lp.Until this day you will not fully realise how labels gave you s###.
They had to gave/give this quality,or close to it since the very first day
You may have saw many time a musicien saying he was surprise when listening to the record.The tape in the studio was really different and better.
I understand why they say this.And better not to speak of the fake stereo.Listen to the first Pink Floyd on mono.............
You can see they do not give any respect to artists,never they did.Only for this even if deaf i will download non stop from p2p.Just to put them a finger

[Scronch]

> Only for this even if deaf i will download non stop from p2p.Just to put them a finger

For some reason, that makes me smile.

Scronch

[Charlemagne 8]

Yeah, me too.

"The road less travelled" was not at all what I meant to say. I got in a hurry. Now I really don't know what I meant to say. Sometimes I wish I could remember better. But then I forget that I can't remember so there's not a problem.

As Z might say (unless I'm just a total buffoon but forgot I was) "C'est La Vie".

[Scronch]

I just don't remember.

[Charlemagne 8]

Remember what?

[KingSparta]

what he was to remember