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[laerm]

Hi guys –

Having exclusively had headphones in the office on my MacBook, with MC Mac I'm starting to plan out a better listening experience. (My fiancée does not thank you for giving me the opportunity to geek out and spend more money. )

I've picked up a couple sets of small active monitors to test drive and so, how to get sound into them? I am setting a low budget on this, no more than a few hundred US, which I realize doesn't get me much but I want to see what's possible while MC Mac becomes robust. Because of that low budget, I may have to compromise on the only thing I really want: balanced XLR. If something balanced is available at a low price (that's not lousy), then I'd love to hear about it. If not, then let me know and pass on a recommendation for something else instead.

Thanks for any advice –
Micah

[mwillems]

I haven't had a chance to use any low cost DACs with balanced XLR outputs, but I currently use a FIIO E17 as a DAC at work and I can recommend it highly.  It requires an additional small attachment to provide line out (as opposed to an amplified headphone output), but it's a comparatively cheap portable DAC with good specs that also is a fairly powerful headphone amp if you need one.  If you just need a DAC and don't need a headphone amp, FIIO also makes a standalone DAC (I think it's the E10?) for even cheaper

Also I've read rave reviews of the ODAC, and it's measurements seem pretty incredible (its designer goes into it over at his blog: http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2012/04/odac-released.html, but he's not exactly impartial).  But I've never heard one, it just allegedly measures significantly better than the E17, and better than some of the benchmark DACs (which are well out of my price range).   

Many of the folks here use Steinberg or Lynx DACs that have balanced outputs, but I don't think any of those are in the price range you're describing.

[pcstockton]

Why XLRs?  

Regardless, you really should look at this:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/dacmagic-plus-digital-to-analogue-converter

Everything you want from a well respected British manufacturer.

-Patrick

[mwillems]

Why XLRs? 

Regardless, you really should look at this:

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/dacmagic-plus-digital-to-analogue-converter

Everything you want from a well respected British manufacturer.

-Patrick

That looks pretty sweet, I guess I just read his price point (a few hundred USD) to mean less than $300.  If he's willing to go up to 600 or 700, the Dacmagic is a great choice, but so are some of the basic Steinbergs (which also have balanced outputs).  OP if you're looking to spend in that range check out this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77508.0.  There's a good bit of discussion about higher end DACs there.

[laerm]

Hi guys, thanks for the responses.

I will look at the FIIO products as well as the DACmagic. I only wish FIIO had a website that was easier to browse.

XLRs because I know I want to go balanced right out of the gate. My desk is a warren of wires of various sorts and I just want to avoid any possible noise source. The monitors I'll be testing all do balanced as XLRs (Emotiva airmotiv4, KRK vxt4, Genelec 8020b). I picked up the KRKs on ebay for under $100, so it might be doable to hit my overall budget of around $600. I was poking around the head-fi for sale forums last night to see what was available and (IIRC) there was a DACmagic on sale for $500. Definitely out of my price range, but if I can save some money on the monitors, then finishing my rig with that is possible.

Thanks for the link to the other post, I will research that for future expansion.

Also, if anyone sees this and has something in this price range they'd consider selling, then absolutely definitely please PM me.

Thanks –
Micah

PS: I'm afraid the ODAC page overwhelmed me. It's an open-source DAC developed jointly by several small manufacturers and they each sell their own flavor of it, yes?

[pcstockton]

At increasing price points (from $225 to $3700), below is how I would rank the DACs I know very well:

- Beresford
- Cambridge DacMagic
- Musical Fidelity V-DAC II
- Cambridge DacMagic Plus
- Rega DAC
- SimAudio Moon DAC
- Naim DAC (gets even better with optional PSUs but they run you $2.8K, $5.7K, or $9.7K!!!!!!!!!!)

I of course have heard/demo'd many more but the list above represents the best for the outlay, in my honest opinion.  I personally have never heard good music coming out of the products from the Pro audio world, e.g. Steinberg, Benchmark, Lavry etc...

Above the Naim DAC price point I have never had the opportunity to hear something that betters it.  The Weiss DAC (at like $6.5K) is nice but nothing compared to the bare Naim DAC.

Happy hunting!!!  Buy new and ONLY with a solid return policy.  If you can get an in-home demo I would jump at it.

-Patrick

[laerm]

Thanks Patrick. I am definitely going to look into the DacMagic. Most reviews are glowing and I like their history (I knew I'd heard the name before). Why do you say only buy new? I've bought tons of gadgetry used over the years and, while I've had a few clankers, most have been just as good. Then again, this is a new segment for me. Are these types of barely-mass-produced gadgets more fiddly than others and, so, support would be good?

As to an in-home demo, I've never been much of a schmoozer so I never could figure out how everyone did it. Then again, I live in the one of middlest of nowheres, so it's not like I'd be able to walk into my local hi-fi shop and chat the guy up anyway. 

Micah

[mwillems]

Hi guys, thanks for the responses.

I will look at the FIIO products as well as the DACmagic. I only wish FIIO had a website that was easier to browse.

[...snip...]

PS: I'm afraid the ODAC page overwhelmed me. It's an open-source DAC developed jointly by several small manufacturers and they each sell their own flavor of it, yes?

The ODAC is open source and is available from a number of retailers, usually for around $150.  The site I linked is the designers site, and he's measured a large number of other low-priced DACs including most of the FIIO products.  IF you hunt around you can find detailed measurements and reviews for almost all of them.  If there's a sub $200 dollar USB DAC floating around nwavguy probably measured it at some point on his site, and he has lots of detailed measurement data about them in his reviews.  He was trying to find a commercial solution before designing his own, and finally gave up and did it himself.  

But to reiterate, I have no ears on experience of the ODAC, I just followed the designer's blog because he actually posted solid measurements on the DACs he reviewed (I've independently reproduced some of his measurements with the FIIO E7 and E9, for example).

For what it's worth, I currently use an Asus Essence ST as my DAC at home and it sounds superb (I prefer it to some DACs I've heard that cost twice as much), but its an in-PC card in the $200 range, and once again, no balanced outputs.  Almost all of my DAC demoing has been with the sub-$500 DACs, so pstockton is probably a better source of info on the nicer DACs.  

[pcstockton]

I can only say one thing, dont buy ANYTHING of worth without being able to try it at home, in your setup, in your room, without some kind of acceptable return policy.  If the used item has these qualifications then by all means go for it. 

I ALWAYS recommend buying from your closest authorized dealer who will be happy to give you a either an in-home demo, or a reasonable return policy.  This applies to new or used, expensive or cheap.

If you want to shoot far beyond your budget and look for that "killer deal", go for it.  I just don't endorse that method for anything meaningful.

-Patrick!

[lasker98]

Meridian has a new USB dac for $299 that looks very impressive.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/505-meridian-explorer-usb-dac-review/

[SpeedD408]

Echo Audio also makes a 2-channel unit - Echo 2 - It's $399 retail, but Echo has free ground shipping and 30 day money back guarantee so it could be worth a shot.

http://echoaudio.com/products/echo-2

I had their echo 12 unit and it was nice.  I just upgraded to the Lynx system in my signature.  I have the Echo 12 sitting on the floor for now.  Not sure what it's future holds.

[laerm]

Hi all –

Again, thanks for the info.

mwillems: The ODAC is an interesting idea... Certainly something to consider and I'll research it more. One wonders how the expandable/customizable it is, considering its homebrew roots.

Patrick: Agreed, yeah, I used to A/B things in the shops back when I had that opportunity. Sadly, the nearest pro audio store to me now is currently3-4 hours away, so I have to make do. That's why used/refurb works for me often, as I don't have the ability to demo things before buying them, so I'd rather spend less and then resell for a similar amount if I don't like it.

lasker98: I did see that one, as well as the Dragonfly it is compared to. I don't know how much use I'd get out of a portable device, though.

SpeedD408: Now that is an intriguing option as well. I used to have a little studio and I was going to start rebuilding it, so something with ins is a good plan. The Echo 12 you mention, that might be something I consider in the future as well.

Micah

[pcstockton]

If you are not going to demo before buying then you may as well buy the cheapest DAC that offers your specs.  Since you will have nothing to compare it to, you will like it!

That said, "30 day money back guarantee" = "home demo"

Buy new and don't wonder.  Any reputable dealer will loan you a unit (you pay shipping) or give you a return policy.  My Naim dealer is 3.5 hours away (I'd rather not buy from my local dealer), no big deal.

Good luck!
Patrick

[pcstockton]

There are thousands of USB DACs out there.  I would stick to the "major" consumer hifi brands.  I would avoid those "pro" devices people are suggesting.  I would also discount suggestions made by people who haven't even heard the units.

[syndromeofadown]

I second the recommendation for the FIIO E17.
It perfect for entry level because it does everything.
I have had mine for just under a year and i really like it.
I use it as a dac for my laptop while traveling and also as a headphone amp for my android player.
FIIO recently released ASIO drivers for it and they work well.

For balanced outputs the dac i use is the ASUS Xonar Essence One.
I have also had it for about a year and really like it.

Another brand to look at that's affordable is NuForce.

All 3 of these brands are easy to find and likely won't have huge shipping costs.

[mwillems]

I second the recommendation for the FIIO E17.
It perfect for entry level because it does everything.
I have had mine for just under a year and i really like it.
I use it as a dac for my laptop while traveling and also as a headphone amp for my android player.
FIIO recently released ASIO drivers for it and they work well.

For balanced outputs the dac i use is the ASUS Xonar Essence One.
I have also had it for about a year and really like it.

Another brand to look at that's affordable is NuForce.

All 3 of these brands are easy to find and likely won't have huge shipping costs.

Oh neat, I didn't know they had ASIO drivers out.  That makes it even better.  Thanks 

[syndromeofadown]

Here is a bit of info on the FIIO E17
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=78637.0

[kiwi]

If you can go with full sized units, Emotiva makes a very nice dac, the XDA-2.

I have the XDA-1 and have an ODAC on order (should arrive later this week).  I'll update with my thoughts on the ODAC.

The other DAC of interest would be the Schitt Modi DAC.  It's $99 and supposed to be quite nice.

[Samson]

I have an RME Babyface and I can't sing its praises enough.Has what you are looking for,XLR balanced connections etc also an ASIO driver (and much more) and passthrough ability.Using the latter to compare with my reference mark Levinson 30.6 DAC it performs very well.You may possibly pick one up for $500 which is a tiny fraction of the cost of the levinson when new.
http://www.absolutemusic.co.uk/community/content/computer-music/186-rme-babyface-review/

[syn-ack]

www.schiit.com has IMO the best DACs and Amps for the buck.