Topic: Good 16 channel sound card (Read 14064 times)

Paul W · « **on:** March 18, 2013, 10:47:52 am »

Searching for a quality 16 channel analog out sound card. Prefer balanced output, but single ended is doable. Would like to keep cost down to $1k, but will pay more for an audible improvement.

What products should I consider and what do you recommend?

SpeedD408 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 18, 2013, 05:23:00 pm »

For that price point I think you are going to be hard pressed to find anything that will beat the Echo Audio AudioFire Pre8. MSPR is $599 and you can link two of them together via a firewire port, giving you the 16 ports you are looking for (plus cool features like mic pre's and phantom power if you want to get fancy with room correction).

http://echoaudio.com/products/audiofire-pre8

I had the AudioFire 12 in my setup for about a year and really liked it. I upgraded to the Lynx Aurora 16-VT about 2 months ago. Why did I switch? Mostly because I wanted 24/192 and the Echo will only do 24/96 (the AudioFire 12 hardware supports 192 but the Win drivers don't). Also I had an odd software problem that I was never able to track down where channels 3 and 4 would mute for no reason. I've searched boards and never found another person with that issue, so I blame it on the rain (or a housemate doing something and not admitting to it).

Enjoy.

Matt · « **Reply #2 on:** March 18, 2013, 08:28:59 pm »

I really like the Lynx Aurora, although it's a budget buster.

I spent a little time with the 8-channel model and wrote about it here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77508.0

Paul W · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2013, 01:25:00 pm »

I'd also like to stick with 192k if possible. Is there any perceptible difference in SQ between the Echo and Lynx products? Which interface did you choose for the Lynx? How did the VT option help in your installation?

I have the requisite TI Firewire interface so, other than weak customer support, any thoughts on MOTU vs Echo?

Let's see...how can one justify spending a 2 week cruise for 2 on a DAC! Humm...this could get expensive!

natehansen66 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2013, 03:43:12 pm »

FWIW I've been using an AudioFire 12 for about a year now and it's been rock solid. Not 16 channels though, and I don't have experience with anything else in this category to compare too.

You wouldn't be the Paul W with the crazy waveguided "Octagon" theater, would you?

Paul W · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2013, 04:44:53 pm »

Yup, that would be me.

Question for you on the AudioFire12...does it "look" like just another other sound card to JRiver? In other words, would I be able to input MLS, swept sine, and other test signals to an AF12 input through the JRiver DSP engine to check FR etc all the way to speakers?

Matt · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2013, 04:52:00 pm »

Quote from: Paul W on March 19, 2013, 04:44:53 pm

Yup, that would be me.

This thread needs pictures

SpeedD408 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2013, 04:59:25 pm »

Quote from: Paul W on March 19, 2013, 01:25:00 pm

I'd also like to stick with 192k if possible. Is there any perceptible difference in SQ between the Echo and Lynx products? Which interface did you choose for the Lynx? How did the VT option help in your installation?

I have the requisite TI Firewire interface so, other than weak customer support, any thoughts on MOTU vs Echo?

Let's see...how can one justify spending a 2 week cruise for 2 on a DAC! Humm...this could get expensive!

I think I notice an increase in detail, esp in the low volume background area of the mids. So I think it was worth it and so do my two housemates.

I chose the AES16e PCIe card and use digital cables to the Aurora 16-vt as I wanted all 16 channels to do 192 and the FW and USB options only support limited channels at 192.

I have not touched the VT settings yet. I got it as I will be upgrading my front channel speakers soon and I wanted that option to help compensate for potential speaker efficency issues

Paul W · « **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2013, 05:12:45 pm »

Quote from: Matt on March 19, 2013, 04:52:00 pm

This thread needs pictures

Here's one...this pic and the link are little out of date, but this shot includes all of the LCRs & subs.

http://advanceddefinition.com/The%20Octagon.htm

Don't know how long the link will be up as I'm changing hosts.

natehansen66 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 19, 2013, 05:32:31 pm »

Quote from: Paul W on March 19, 2013, 04:44:53 pm

Yup, that would be me.

Cool

Quote from: Paul W on March 19, 2013, 04:44:53 pm

Question for you on the AudioFire12...does it "look" like just another other sound card to JRiver? In other words, would I be able to input MLS, swept sine, and other test signals to an AF12 input through the JRiver DSP engine to check FR etc all the way to speakers?

Yeah, for regular playback anyways. To run a measurement signal through the DSP engine you need to use MC's Loopback function. See this thread: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70242.0. Loopback works quite well when it's setup right, which is dependent on the system. I do get dropouts occasionally and will have to redo a measurement here and there. The need to use Loopback for measurements holds true for all sound devices although there are other methods as of late (that I have no knowledge of) that might be more stable, that something like the Lynx might support. Ambiguous enough?

Datman · « **Reply #10 on:** March 19, 2013, 06:31:23 pm »

Quote from: Paul W on March 19, 2013, 05:12:45 pm

Here's one...this pic and the link are little out of date, but this shot includes all of the LCRs & subs.

http://advanceddefinition.com/The%20Octagon.htm

Don't know how long the link will be up as I'm changing hosts.

WOW that is cool. Wait till I show my wife what I can get

Paul W · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2013, 04:12:40 pm »

Thanks guys.

Nate...the link was extremely helpful and that conversation started me thinking about even more possibilities.

Keep the suggestions coming! I am a true rookie when it comes to D/A.

Paul W · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2013, 04:43:44 pm »

Matt,
Any information or reason to believe the Antelope Orion ASIO drivers wouldn't play nice with JRiver? Orion is a new product -and Antelope is having trouble with Mac- but Windows seems pretty stable.
Thanks,
Paul

mojave · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2013, 05:43:18 pm »

I can't think of any reason why the Orion32 wouldn't work fine with JRiver. With 32 channels you might have some left for different zones in your house.

Paul W · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2013, 06:17:28 pm »

Yeah, 15 of 16 channels would be used immediately with no inexpensive path to more channels. 32 is more than I can realistically imagine, with performance (hopefully) approaching the Lynx. Slightly lower system cost would make things easier too.

Still looking though...

mojave · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2013, 10:44:43 am »

If you do purchase, I recommend Musician's Friend. They generally have good discounts. For example, right now they have a 14% off coupon on anything $249+. This makes the Orion2 $2575.70. It looks like it will ship April 24.

I'm going to buy a Lynx AES16e and use an 8 channel DAC with AES inputs and balanced output. I can add another 8 channel DAC for 16 channels later if I need to. One DAC will be the master clock and more DAC's can be added as additional channels are needed.

Paul W · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:09:19 pm »

Which DAC(s) are you going to use?

Since this isn't a casual purchase, I'd like to hold off until there are more Orion tests to see where it stands vs Lynx. (Would really like to see where it places in the Diff Maker shootout on Gearslutz.) However, at this level, not sure my ears are good enough to tell the difference!

The MF coupon expires on the 25th...do they usually have deals like this or is this one "unusually good"? Since I've only been looking for a few days, I don't know what I don't know.

mojave · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2013, 01:27:54 pm »

I'm having some custom DACs being made with dual DAC chips per channel in a dual mono configuration. I've thought about maybe trying to market them at some point. I should be getting the first two channel one next week. I interested in how it sounds vs my Steinberg UR824 and will also be able to compare in a few weeks to a Mytek Stereo 192-DSD and a Lynx Aurora 8.

Since the AD/DA loop test at gearslutz includes the AD section, I don't understand how it can accurately be used for comparison of the DA output. For example, I own the Steinberg MR816x which is around -40 dBFS. It has preamps on the AD since it is designed to be used with microphones. If the pad wasn't used on the inputs it will score worse and even if the pad is used, the sound is still going through the preamps. This has nothing do with the the DA and for all we know, it could measure better than all the other converters. The test really should use the same standalone AD for all measurements of the DA and a standalone DA for all measurements of the AD.

Paul W · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2013, 02:40:05 pm »

Rolling your own DACs...interesting. I suspect much better price/performance. If you don't mind, what chips are you using?

Agree 100% on the AD/DA test precision but a I believe a high ranking would give a "feel" for good performance; even if the loop includes AD we don't care about.

Any feedback on the MF coupons?

mojave · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2013, 04:03:49 pm »

I'm not making them myself, but am working with someone else. Here is what I'm getting:

DAC chips: Burr Brown PCM1794A mono
Opamps: ADA 4898-1
8 AES inputs
8 balanced XLR outputs
+10 dBu output voltage (matches input voltage required for maximum power on my amps)
1U chassis
ability to clock to other DACs for more channels
Flat frequency response down to 3 Hz
125+ dB SNR (the chips themselves are 132 dB SNR)

I missed the coupon question. MF has coupons all the time. I don't think this is unusually good. They have a 150% price match for up to 45 days after your purchase. They used to also price match to their own prices for up to 45 days but I don't see it right now on the website. I think the price matches to their own prices result in in-store credit. A year ago I bought something in November and then they had some huge Christmas discounts. I ended up getting $125 in store credit! You can also try a product for up to 45 days and then return it.

Paul W · « **Reply #20 on:** March 25, 2013, 06:14:06 pm »

Yesterday, I ordered the Antelope Orion. Should be a decent converter (at least for my old ears) and provide more than enough expansion capability. Wasn't able to find all of the test results I wanted so, thanks to the great return policy at MF, I'll run my own tests. Probably the only thing that could cause a return is a failure to perform reasonably (vs price) in the DiffMaker tests, plus other tests like IMD, listening, etc.

mojave · « **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2013, 07:03:26 pm »

What happened to "would like to keep cost down to 1K"?

I just ordered the Lynx AES16e.

Paul W · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2013, 10:06:30 pm »

...well...like isn't a commitment

Now all you need is a couple more boards and a chassis! Thanks for the tips on MF

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Author Topic: Good 16 channel sound card (Read 14064 times)