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[Neco]

I can't seem to get subtitles to work properly,  at least NOT in the case of Subtitles that do not have a tagged  track language  (tested with MKVs so far).

The only way to get them to show up, even if  MC detects a subtitle stream is to manually turn them on during playback (from the Stream menu), or to force them always on in options.  

This completely breaks the purpose of detection though,  so I don't understand why we don't have an option to  specify how to handle unflagged tracks or "tracks where MC cannot determine the language".

I can't even get them to show up in  Vobsub (xy-vsfilter)  even though I set up a  PP filter for it and the icon does appear in my systray when playing.    WMC-HC  has no problem showing them in this manner?


It would be nice if we had an Audio track based language  check where you can set it to check based on the Audio track only.  (IF audio language is not "x, y, or z") and a subtitle track is present, show it, etc.)

[jmone]

The std subs config works well if the Audio and Subtitle streams have the correct lang tags.  If not you could:
- Remux them correctly (it is pretty quick) or
- Import them into the Library, play the file, select the sub stream that you want and these settings are then recorded in the "Playback Info" Field and will be used next time.  You can even copy these settings to other similar files if you like and then the subs will be played as you want.

Overall I think the subtitle logic has worked pretty well with the only issue is finding those BD subs that are not marked as forced and you have to troll through heaps of them to find the right one!  One day... we may get BD Menus or a parser to find and identify those.

[Neco]

I agree, for the most part we do get good subtitle support..


But I'm also dealing with my brother..  who I had to go so far as to placate and get  the default  "hi10p playback + subs showing up in WMP"  after fixing it for JRiver (WMP broke after that)  and could give no other reason for why he actually needed WMP to work...  I'd go out on a limb and assume until he gets used to the way JRiver works and gives up on some things, but I digress...

My only issue, even when getting subs to work is,  font and styling support seems erratic..

i.e I have a test encode for a project someone is working on (and Anime episode) they wanted to show me,  and it plays fine in the usual  MPC-HC  setup,  subs show up and the karaokes also show up in their own pretty little font..

I know for a fact the karaoke wasn't hardsubbed into the image.    It seems in most cases when subs call a custom font,  JRiver still uses its own font (and doesn't even respect relative size of the source files font-size),  even when loading in other "working"  setups  show a completely different,  stylized / colored font  or w/e the case may be.


Sometimes I just feel like asking,  "go look at the source and see what they did to mimic it" but  I know that's an arrogant assumption.   Although in this case,  all I literally had to do was install  xy-vsfilter and untick "auto load subtitles" in  MPC-HC's options.  


What really bothers me here is I define a custom  Post Process chain in MC, to load DirectVobSub,  the tray icon activates during playback - but nothing happens on screen.

I will inform my brother about the  playback info  tip though.. I have to test that over DLNA as well and maybe that will placate him.

edit:  Getting much better results by changing default decoder to ffdshow.  Hrmm

[jmone]

On the TXT subs you may want to post a couple of screen shots of how they should look VS MC and a sample file for the JR devs to have a look at.

[Neco]

I'll see if I can find some time to make some comparissons

[Matt]

If you're having problems with a particular file, a sample file would be especially useful.

[Neco]

I can arrange to provide you a sample file later -   when I can find a good one to make  rendering comparisons against.   I'd prefer just to provide the ASS/SSA track if that is acceptable as I suspect that is ultimately where the problem would be (tag / format MC doesn't recognize or some such)

As for the larger topic at hand.

The big problem here seems to be making MC more tolerant of files which are not tagged properly. A lot of this has to do with the limited option set of how to select the subtitles displayed by default..  

In LAV Source Splitter there is an advanced options tag, which will let you form filter chains for priorities (if this is found, display it, if not display this, if not display this, etc),  this is based off the audio track selected by default (which can also be set with language priority filters).    If we had something similar that would help a lot in dealing with worst case scenarios.

i.e having a way specify tell MC   "If no subtitle tracks are found with an identified language,  search for and display any track marked  forced or default" (at least for MKVs).


Also.. if I could get a little clarity on what adding  DirectVobsub under  "post processing" from Custom Video Mode is supposed to accomplish?     Because right now  there is no difference internally in Media Center between its own output, and DirectVobSub's (assuming it is working) output.  The tray icon shows up when you play etc, but none of the formatting will come through.  

 But if I were to use it in WMP or MPC-HC  then the subtitles render as they are supposed to be viewed.    Which suggests MC isn't allowing Vobsub to actually render and is substituting its own renderer - or  is stripping the subtitles of formatting it may not recognize before they reach Vobub?      Don't even know if that makes sense..    Like I said,   some files render properly, karaoke fonts & colors etc..   but some standard dialogues lose all formatting.    I guess we will hopefully know more when I can get some non-working sub tracks uploaded.

[Neco]

I've extracted the subtitle track (Advanced Substation Alpha) as well as fonts (didn't think it mattered but just in case) from a file I know doesn't render properly.
This example comes from a translation group,  as I have neither the time nor inclination (or language skills) to do stylized subtitles for my  R2 DVD's/BDR's.   Hopefully this isn't going to de-rail the topic and raise a philosophical stink...

http://pics.oldskoolgames.com/forums/jriver/sub_examples.zip

Some screen shots for illustration also.  For  MPC-HC the renderer was xy-VSfilter,  but they would look the same if I used MPC-HC's internal rendering anyway.    For the JRiver examples the render is also set to xy-VSfilter the same  (DirectVOBSub set under  Post Processing under Custom Video settings).   It also looks the same in MC without trying to use DirectVobSub as a PP filter.

How it looks in  JRiver MC


How it's supposed to look (MPC-HC)


The next set is for a Karaoke.  It displays the correct font but does not animate / color it correctly.  The most animation it does is showing a moving underscore.

How it looks in JRiver MC


How it is supposed to look (MPC-HC)

[Matt]

Thanks for the example.

Next build will get a little better:
Changed: SSA/ASS subtitle renderer supports custom outline colors.
Changed: When the subtitle engine rendered an underline (common with karaoke), it could cause letters around the underline to shift slightly.

Keep in mind that SSA/ASS subtitles are text based and have a loose specification, so there will never be agreement to the pixel between varying subtitle engines.

[Neco]

Thanks for looking at it.  I understand that  the spec may change so I won't always expect perfect support.

If it helps at all I've found a couple different sources for specs.
http://moodub.free.fr/video/ass-specs.doc    (from http://matroska.org/technical/specs/subtitles/ssa.html )
http://aegisub.cellosoft.com/docs/ASS_Tags

I hope you also consider advanced options for stream selection as discussed above as well.

Is there an email address I could send future trouble subtitle files to?