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[tiggerkater]

Hello to everybody,

I know, similar problems have been reported a few times in this forum, but my problem seems a little bit different.

I am currently testing JRiver (latest build) and after importing my music files (flac) JRiver splits some of the albums.

I am mostly into classical music, which can be a little problem when it comes into tagging, but all other media players (sonos, linn ds, foobar) dont split the albums, so the problem seems to be within JRiver IMHO.

I try to give you an example:

rout_directory/music/opera/tosca/cd1/title1.flac ../title2.flac ../title3.flac etc.
rout_directory/music/opera/tosca/cd2/title1.flac etc.

One folder TOSCA has subfolders cd1 cd2 with the music files in them. All files are tagged (mp3tag, xld ripping software) as ONE album, track numbers 1-25 (consecutive) ONE albumartist.

Nevertheless JRiver makes 3 albums "tosca (cd1)", "tosca (cd2)", and "Tosca" (which should be the album as how I tagged it) Strangely not all files show up under cd1 or cd2 (which are in the original folder), only a few or even only one.

And when I try to make ONE album out of these three whithin JRiver using the implemented tagging utility, it messes up with the tracks (wrong track numbers).

I would really like to use JRiver as my one an only Mediacenter software, for music  and for video (dsp and convolving being a future project) But I cant use it, when there are problems with the tags, or even worse: JRiver messing up with the tags (track numbers are wrong), because it changes the tags on my nas, means i have to retag, which is a lot of work.

Sorry for the perhaps confusing question, but the problem occurs only to some albums, so I cant see a special pattern to my problem. After spending hours to figure out the problem on my own, i cant find a solution, I really nead some help on this.

Thanks a lot!

Tiggerkater

PS: sorry for my english, I am writing from austria

[vagskal]

It sounds like the Album tag could differ among the tracks. Select all tracks that should belong to one album but is not and then note which fields in the tag action window (bottom left) show [Varies]. If the album field shows [Varies] you can in that field select the correct album title for all tracks at once.

If that does not help you can post a tag dump here for one of the trouble files (in the tag action window, bottom left, click on the top line, where it says FLAC, and in the resulting window select Copy to Clipboard).

[tiggerkater]

Thanks vagskai for your answer,

If the album field shows [Varies] you can in that field select the correct album title for all tracks at once.

Yes, the Album field shows different values. Just to be precise: In every other software (mp3tag, sonos, foobar) the album is NOT splitted, because the files are tagged properly. Why JRiver splits the Album is the big miracle for me. And when I set one Album title within JRiver, as you said, the track numbers get wrong.

I will post a tag dump soon.

Thanks again

tiggerkater

[MrC]

If the Album tag shows Varies in the tag action window, then the Album tag differs across tracks (and hence not strictly property tagged).  Just select the tracks, and enter the album name, selecting one of the suggested variations you have.

[tiggerkater]

Hello MrC,

thanks a lot for your answer. As I said, of course I can choose the (right) album name, then the album is split no longer, thats fine so far. But after that the tracks numbers are not in the right order any longer (the consecutive track numbers are gone).

And I am sorry to tell you, but the tags work fine in every other player. It is only JRiver messing up with the tags. And even if it was not properly tagged, why does mp3tag or foobar show everything in the right way (no split album) and only JRiver does?

For me it seems, JRiver could perhaps take previously overwritten tags, and does not recognise the new ones. I have no other explanation for this.

Thanks again for the help.

Tiggerkater

[vagskal]

Without the tag dump it is hard to tell what the issue was. One guess is that the files contained more than one set of tags, Vorbis comments (which is correct with flac files) and ID3 tags (which should not be used with flac files).

As for the track numbers, do you mean that the tracks in the album are not sorted in track # order in MC or has the tracks themselves the wrong track # (3 on the CD is something else in MC)? If it is the latter a tag dump might help to diagnose. If it is just the sorting, switch to another view and back again.

[MrC]

Or maybe we can try looking at the tag values as MC sees them for the album.

Select the tracks in the album, and do File > Export Playlist and select:

   Text File (CSV format)
   Included Fields: All Fields
   Output Range: Selection

Save the file to your desktop and then include it here as an attachment.  We can then examine all the tags for the entire album.

[Listener]

Hello MrC,

thanks a lot for your answer. As I said, of course I can choose the (right) album name, then the album is split no longer, thats fine so far. But after that the tracks numbers are not in the right order any longer (the consecutive track numbers are gone).

And I am sorry to tell you, but the tags work fine in every other player. It is only JRiver messing up with the tags. And even if it was not properly tagged, why does mp3tag or foobar show everything in the right way (no split album) and only JRiver does?

For me it seems, JRiver could perhaps take previously overwritten tags, and does not recognise the new ones. I have no other explanation for this.

Thanks again for the help.

Tiggerkater

Tiggerkater,

I have read many posts in which MrC gave very accurate and useful advice.  He knows how MC works and can help you if you cooperate.  I'll point out a few things that might be responsible what you are seeing.

The way MC displays music files depends on the view or playlist you are using.  For example, the Artist / Album view allows you to select by Artist and then by Album.  If a single CD has tracks with different Artists, the individual files will be separated by Artist value even if the Album value is the same for all tracks.

The View or Playlist also determines the order in which individual music files are listed.  The column headings area above the list of files shows you the current sort order.  The most fields has an upward arrow with a "1" beside it (or no number at all.  The next moswt significant sort file will have an up arrow with a "2" beside it and so on.  This sort order will be different for different views and playlists.  

After you import files, MC switches to the "Recently Imported" Playlist which lists files in the order in which they are imported.  That may not correspond to the track order.

I've used MC for nearly 7 years.  I have found it to be very flexible and quite reliable.  You do need to learn a bit about the way it uses tag information to display files.  

Looking at the tag values in your files and then seeing how MC uses those values in the View or Playlist you are using should clarify your situation.

Bill

[AndyV]

I've a fair few classical boxed sets, with no problems. As well as making sure the Album tag is the same across the piece, you also need to make sure the Disc# tag is correct, otherwise you will have three track 1s, three track 2s etc.

[tiggerkater]

Thank you all for answering and trying to help me with this problem. I appreciate a lot, really.

I have read many posts in which MrC gave very accurate and useful advice.  He knows how MC works and can help you if you cooperate.

There is no doubt about that. I try to cooperate as much as possible, thanks for every help again. I will post the tag dump soon, I also have prepared some picutres, so that you can see better, what I mean.

One guess is that the files contained more than one set of tags, Vorbis comments (which is correct with flac files) and ID3 tags (which should not be used with flac files).

That could be possible, too. I will have a look at XLD, perhaps during the ripping process something happens, I dont know. Thank you. (Strangely enough, that it does not happen to every CD I rip.)

Posting again soon, and thanks everybody

Tiggekater

[vagskal]

The tag dump will show if there are multiple sets of tags. You can also check this in MP3Tag by adding a column with this: %_tag_read%[ (%_tag%)]

With MP3Tag it is easy to delete undesired sets of tags.

[tiggerkater]

Hello again,

here the first tag dump, (different cd, not tosca, but otello):

Here the first track of the album, it is in the WRONG album (Verdi - Otello, Karajan (CD1)), interesting for me, that it shows the right album in the album tag, but JRiver shows a different album at album-view. A screenshot of how JRiver splits the album is attached.

Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC)
  44,1 kHz Sample Rate
  16 Bits Per Sample
  2 Channels

  Min Block Size = 4096
  Max Block Size = 4096
  Min Frame Size = 14
  Max Frame Size = 13768
  Padding Block = 4047 bytes

# of Pictures = 1
  Type 3 (38808 bytes)

SeekTable Block (468 bytes):
  # of points = 26

Vorbis Comment Block (783 bytes):
  Vendor String = S
  TRACKTOTAL = 23
  TOTALTRACKS = 23
  ISRC = GBF076040401
  MCN = 0028941161925
  iTunes_CDDB_1 = <Too Long To Display>
  DISCTOTAL = 2
  ENCODER = X Lossless Decoder 20121222
  TOTALDISCS = 2
  TOOL NAME = Media Center
  TOOL VERSION = 17.0.122
  REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN = -4.31 dB
  CONDUCTOR = Karajan
  REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_PEAK = 0.977420
  GENRE = Oper
  ALBUMARTIST = Wiener Philharmoniker
  ALBUM = Verdi - Otello, Karajan
  TITLE = Act One - Una vela! Una vela! (Ciprioti)
  DISCNUMBER = 1
  COMMENT = mac lion xld
  ARTIST = Karajan, Del Monaco, Tebaldi, Protti
  COMPOSER = Verdi
  DATE = 1961
  TRACKNUMBER = 01



Here the third track of the album, it has the RIGHT album tag:

Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC)
  44,1 kHz Sample Rate
  16 Bits Per Sample
  2 Channels

  Min Block Size = 4096
  Max Block Size = 4096
  Min Frame Size = 3580
  Max Frame Size = 9575
  Padding Block = 4047 bytes

# of Pictures = 1
  Type 3 (38808 bytes)

SeekTable Block (270 bytes):
  # of points = 15

Vorbis Comment Block (786 bytes):
  Vendor String = S
  TRACKTOTAL = 23
  TOTALTRACKS = 23
  ISRC = GBF076040403
  MCN = 0028941161925
  iTunes_CDDB_1 = <Too Long To Display>
  DISCTOTAL = 2
  ENCODER = X Lossless Decoder 20121222
  TOTALDISCS = 2
  TOOL NAME = Media Center
  TOOL VERSION = 17.0.122
  REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_GAIN = +7.30 dB
  CONDUCTOR = Karajan
  REPLAYGAIN_TRACK_PEAK = 0.404360
  GENRE = Oper
  ALBUMARTIST = Wiener Philharmoniker
  ALBUM = Verdi - Otello, Karajan
  TITLE = Act One - Roderigo, ebben che pensi? (Jago)
  DISCNUMBER = 1
  COMMENT = mac lion xld
  ARTIST = Karajan, Del Monaco, Tebaldi, Protti
  COMPOSER = Verdi
  DATE = 1961
  TRACKNUMBER = 03

You can also check this in MP3Tag by adding a column with this: %_tag_read%[ (%_tag%)]
With MP3Tag it is easy to delete undesired sets of tags.

A first quick look does not show anz problems with the tags in mp3tag.

Thanks again a lot!

Tiggerkater

PS. I could not upload .csv files, so i saved the csv with .txt file extension.

[tiggerkater]

Hello everybody,

I just realised, that my playlist was in german, so I attach again the englih version.

Thanks a lot in advance, tiggerkater

[MrC]

MC's value for track 1 is:

   Verdi - Otello, Karajan (CD1)

and your physical track tags show:

   Verdi - Otello, Karajan

So either you've changed the Album property for 4 of the tracks, or MC applied Carnac (which I don't believe it does for Audio but tags normally override its basic rules), or you have some auto-import rules (which aren't working correctly), or your File Location rules for the audio folder are not specified correctly (but you didn't rip these in MC, so this wouldn't apply).

Re-reading your first post, I see that you have tried adjusting properties, so we can't determine the state the data in the export.

I've never experienced (or read about anyone reporting) MC adding (CD#) to an album name, and for only a couple of tracks in any case.

Since your raw tags show the correct value, you can just select the 4 tracks and Library Tools > Update Library (from Tags).

Edit: Carnac does run for all media types, but for audio its simple rules are:

   [Artist] - [Album] - [Track #] - [Name]
   [Track #] - [Name]

These property-filling rules pulling from filename would generally not override existing tags.

[MrC]

Hello everybody,

I just realised, that my playlist was in german, so I attach again the englih version.

Thanks a lot in advance, tiggerkater

That's OK, I had to look-up "Wiedergaben" and "Übersprung", but the others were easy enough.

[tiggerkater]

Thanks again MrC for you reply,

So either you've changed the Album property for 4 of the tracks

I did not change anything within this album (thatīs why I took it as an example), it is the way how JRiver imported the files from my NAS.

I've never experienced (or read about anyone reporting) MC adding (CD#) to an album name, and for only a couple of tracks in any case.

I dont think, that JRiver adds something. When I rip the CD, I rip first every CD into one folder (exactly like the "wrong" albums  show up with CD1 and CD2). After ripping I put the files into one folder, then I tag them in Mp3Tag and remove the (CDx) from the albums and complete some tags. So it seems for me, that JRIver is able to read tags, which were tagged before, but removed. But why isnīt it an issue in every other player oder server?

Since your raw tags show the correct value, you can just select the 4 tracks and Library Tools > Update Library (from Tags).

Yes, you are right, I could and I did for some Albums, but after that (as I wrote) the Track numbers are getting wrong (screen below). So I have to retag the Album within Mp3tag and make the tracks consecutive again. These are too many steps IMHO for a lot of albums being imported the wrong way, and too much work for my whole library. And of course, it could occur in the future, with CDs I am going to rip.

Perhaps we can get to the root of this problem. Strange enough, it seems, I am the only one who has it, or reported it 

Thanks again, your support is great, anyway!

Tiggerkater

Here the screen with the wrong track numbers:

[tiggerkater]

One more question:

or you have some auto-import rules (which aren't working correctly)

Which rules could cause this problem? (I will take a look)

Thanks, Tiggerkater

[vagskal]

I would have asked the same questions as MrC. The auto import rules can be found in Options, but if you do not know where they are it seems unlikely that you have set any custom rules to add the cd1 and cd2 info. The file tags look normal, but they are not reflected in MC for some reason.

The Tool tags in your tag dump suggest that you did do some changes to he file tags with MC.

If you have not done many changes in MC you could try to Clear Library (it does what it says so be careful or save a backup copy of your library) and re-import the files. An alternative is to do an Update library from file tags.

I am still not clear if the track # thing is just a sorting issue or a file tag issue (MC not displaying the track # that is in the file).

[tiggerkater]

I would have asked the same questions as MrC. The auto import rules can be found in Options, but if you do not know where they are it seems unlikely that you have set any custom rules to add the cd1 and cd2 info.

Thats right, I did not add anything to that rules.

The Tool tags in your tag dump suggest that you did do some changes to he file tags with MC.

Yes, I changed some "genre-tags" throughout the library. Perhaps it was something like that. But I did not change the album tags.

An alternative is to do an Update library from file tags.

I tried several times, but the split albums just stayed how they are.

I am still not clear if the track # thing is just a sorting issue or a file tag issue (MC not displaying the track # that is in the file).

Perhaps I dont understand exactly what you mean, but I am quite sure, that it is a file tag issue. One more screen from Mp3tag after merging the albums.

The file tags look normal, but they are not reflected in MC for some reason.

But perhaps this is the main question, isnīt it?

Thanks a lot again, Tiggerkater

[Listener]

...
I dont think, that JRiver adds something. When I rip the CD, I rip first every CD into one folder (exactly like the "wrong" albums  show up with CD1 and CD2). After ripping I put the files into one folder, then I tag them in Mp3Tag and remove the (CDx) from the albums and complete some tags. So it seems for me, that JRIver is able to read tags, which were tagged before, but removed. But why isnīt it an issue in every other player oder server?

Yes, you are right, I could and I did for some Albums, but after that (as I wrote) the Track numbers are getting wrong (screen below). So I have to retag the Album within Mp3tag and make the tracks consecutive again. These are too many steps IMHO for a lot of albums being imported the wrong way, and too much work for my whole library. And of course, it could occur in the future, with CDs I am going to rip.
...
Here the screen with the wrong track numbers:

I found a listing of this Puccini / Tosca CD set on Amazon.  The track names for Disk 1, Tracks 1-10 look match the track numbers in the Amazon listing.  So do those for Disk 2, Tracks 1,2 and 4.  However, the track name and number don't match for the last track shown in your screenshot.  The track name matched Disk 2, track 3 rather than 13.  

There should be 10 tracks from disk 1 and 19 tracks from disk 2.  Do you see that many tracks in the listing?  I'm trying to get a more precise description of the problem you report.

You said "So it seems for me, that JRIver is able to read tags, which were tagged before, but removed. But why isnīt it an issue in every other player oder server?"

There are several possibilities:

- The auto-import process is getting Artist, Album and Track number information from the file name rather than the tags embedded in the file.  (That's the Carnac process mentioned earlier.  Its purpose is to generate tag values when there are no readable tags in the file being imported.)  MC might not be able to get the right track numbers from file names.

- There is more than one set of tag values for Artist, Album, Track #. etc . embedded in your files.  Your ripping program may have written one set and then MP3Tag may have written an adidtional set of tags.  MC may be using a different set from those that MP3Tag or another player shows.  

I've seen three ways in which multiple sets of tag information might be present in a Flac file: 1) More than one Vorbis comment for Artist, Album and other tags. 2) Tags in ID3 format as well as the standard Vorbis Comments formats. 3) multiple values may be appended inside a single vorbis comment.  I've seen files with artist values like this "artist1;artist2".  (This is an accepted way to store multiple values for a list field but it is a problem for tags that should have only one value.)  In such situations, there is no standardized behavior for resolving the ambiguity.

I think that it would be worthwhile to check just what is in the files with the wrong track numbers.  I'd look at track times first and then listen to a second or two of each track. Once you are sure you know what the correct tag values are for the mis-labeled files, then you can change the track numbers in MC.

In the future, I'd suggest correcting the Album value before you start the ripping process.

Bill

[MrC]

Perhaps I dont understand exactly what you mean, but I am quite sure, that it is a file tag issue. One more screen from Mp3tag after merging the albums.

Its pretty clear that your track numbers are not correct in this screenshot.  Look at tracks for disc 2.  They seem to be off by 10 after track 4.

Stepping back, I think your workflow is making this a lot harder than it needs to be, and causing you some confusion about how your external changes are affecting MC and vice versa.

I don't agree with your assessment that when you change Album names, MC changes track numbers.  They are unrelated.

The data in the tag dump you showed does not correspond to the data you exported.  I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as far as I know, MC will not try to figure out tag information a) when it already exists for the files, and b) for Audio.

i see some of your track numbers have leading 0's.  I'm not sure if this will cause an issue on import.

If you can package up a few sample files that you feel are correctly tagged, so that one of use can import to replicate the problem, we'll make some headway.  Otherwise, we're just speculating.  And I can't tell you how many times we've heard - "I didn't do anything... MC did it...".   :-)

[vagskal]

If Update library from file tags did not work for the problem file you showed the tag dump for then I do not know. It is a mystery to me.

The MC tag dump is supposed to show if there are multiple sets of file tags, right? And I know that the tag dump shows if there are multiple Vorbis comments with the same name.

Any ideas anyone?

[tiggerkater]

Thanks again everybody for helping me an my problem,

I try to answer your questions:

I don't agree with your assessment that when you change Album names, MC changes track numbers.

Perhaps it is the wrong wording to say "wrong track numbers". What JRiver does after merging the albums, is to break my consecutive numbering, but instead make numbers like (CD1) 1-10 and (CD2) 1-19, but only for the tracks with the former wrong album name. So #1(CD2) after #10(CD1), but it was #11 after my tagging. So perhaps it is not to blame JRiver for the numbering, because in the software point of view, it does the right thing - but not for my tagging system.

Anyway, the main problem is the wrong album tag, because if JRiver would read the right album tags, there would be no problem afterwards with the track numbers:

- There is more than one set of tag values for Artist, Album, Track #. etc . embedded in your files.  Your ripping program may have written one set and then MP3Tag may have written an adidtional set of tags.  MC may be using a different set from those that MP3Tag or another player shows.  

Yes, this could be the point. Are there any ways to see, if there are mulitple sets of tags written in the files? The tag dumb, on the other hand, showed the right tags, but JRiver did not read them in that way. Am I right?

I've seen three ways in which multiple sets of tag information might be present in a Flac file: 1) More than one Vorbis comment for Artist, Album and other tags. 2) Tags in ID3 format as well as the standard Vorbis Comments formats. 3) multiple values may be appended inside a single vorbis comment.  I've seen files with artist values like this "artist1;artist2".  (This is an accepted way to store multiple values for a list field but it is a problem for tags that should have only one value.)  In such situations, there is no standardized behavior for resolving the ambiguity.

1+3) Yes, I use more than one value for the artist tag (you can see it on the screens as well) but I dont think this caused the problem.
2) how can I check, if I had ID3 tags in the files as well?  

The tag dump will show if there are multiple sets of tags. You can also check this in MP3Tag by adding a column with this: %_tag_read%[ (%_tag%)]

I did try this, but it shows only FLAC (FLAC) in this field.

If you can package up a few sample files that you feel are correctly tagged, so that one of use can import to replicate the problem, we'll make some headway.  Otherwise, we're just speculating.  And I can't tell you how many times we've heard - "I didn't do anything... MC did it...".   :-)

Yes, I will do so, do you need two whole CDs, or just a few tracks from a "right" and "wrong" album?

Stepping back, I think your workflow is making this a lot harder than it needs to be, and causing you some confusion about how your external changes are affecting MC and vice versa.

Yes, perhaps, I will try to rip an album next time in xld, using the same album name, for every cd. But perhpas you can understand my concerns, because until now, using a lot of different softwares, servers for playing music, it has never been an issue. Thats why I keep on going to get to the root of the problem, which perhaps occurs in the ripping process or within mp3tag.

Thanks for all the help I am getting here.

Tiggerkater

[MrC]

Yes, I will do so, do you need two whole CDs, or just a few tracks from a "right" and "wrong" album?

All I need are two tracks, each in their current folder structure, one which you say imports correctly, one which does not.  So something like these.

   ...\music\OPER\VERDI\Verdi - Otello, Karajan (2CD) [1961]\CD1\02 - Act One - Esultate! (Otello).flac
   ...\music\OPER\VERDI\Verdi - Otello, Karajan (2CD) [1961]\CD1\03 - Act One - Roderigo, ebben che pensi (Jago).flac

I'll test them here, report the results and delete them.  Since these are large, perhaps Dropbox or some equivalent would be best.  You can PM the location.

[MrC]

I received your PM:

I prepared for you a zipped file containing two operas "otello" and "salome". every folder contains three files, which show up in my JRiver Setup in three different albums. (one as it should be e.g. "Verdi - Otello, Karajan" and "Strauss - Salome, Solti". The other two albums contain CD1 and CD2, which should not show up.)

I checked these files with Mp3Tag, the Salome tracks seems to be renumbered, so JRiver changed here the Track number again.

Is there a way, to tell JRiver, that it should NOT write any tags by itself via Import?

More and more it seems, that there are two problems IMHO:

    The XLD rippper, which is the most accurate for MAC, thats why I use it (only my Audio PC is Windows based). That is in fact the reason, why I dont want to use JRiver as Ripper for Audio Cds, because i want AcourateRip and secure Ripping. But perhaps XLD has some standards of tagging, JRiver does not like in some way.
    JRiver doing something with former Album Tags.


I tried to open the flac-files with a text editor, to look, if there were some old tags in it, but I could not examine any strange Tags. I also could not find any (CD1) or (CD2) text in the tags, so I really dont know, from where JRiver got that information.

I've looked at and imported the sample files you sent.  Import is working as expected (see attached), both with manual import and auto-import.  All metadata is imported as expected.

The albums are not split.

You can see in yellow both Disc # and Track #.  In Album view, add a Disc # column so you can see what I see.  In Disc 2/Track 24 of Verdi - Otello, Karajan, you have an mismatch between your track number and the track number (02) in your file name (but you can see MC doesn't care about this).

The sort order of tracks are correct: Disc #, Track #.

MC is not renumbering your tracks.  The tags below, pulled directly from your files pre-import, show an exact match to the view in the screenshot:

$ for i in opera_samples/*/*.flac ; do
    echo -e "\n$i\n"; metaflac.exe --export-tags-to=- "$i";
done | egrep 'tracknu|title'

title=Act One - Esultate! (Otello)
tracknumber=02
title=Act Three - Continua (Otello)
tracknumber=24
title=Act One - Roderigo, ebben che pensi? (Jago)
tracknumber=03
title=Wie sch"on ist die Prinzessin Salome heute Nacht!
tracknumber=01
title=Salome's Dance of the Seven Veils
tracknumber=3
title=Es ist kalt hier
tracknumber=11

The CD1 or CD2 you are seeing in the view header is probably due to a view customization you've done.  As you can see in the default Albums view, this is not part of a header.  I even tried importing with the tracks in the folder format I mentioned earlier:

CD1:
   ...\music\OPER\VERDI\Verdi - Otello, Karajan (2CD) [1961]\CD1\02 - Act One - Esultate! (Otello).flac
   ...\music\OPER\VERDI\Verdi - Otello, Karajan (2CD) [1961]\CD1\03 - Act One - Roderigo, ebben che pensi (Jago).flac
CD2:
   ...\music\OPER\VERDI\Verdi - Otello, Karajan (2CD) [1961]\CD2\02 - Act Three - Continua (Otello).flac

MC still shows these as expected.

So I can't reproduce what you describe.

[tiggerkater]

Thanks MrC for your help, and sorry for the late answer, I was quite busy.

I did some research as well an had some trial and error going on here, and some new things happened, for which I have no explanation:

On my Synology NAS, I made some changes of folder paths (folder names too long), and after that I made  a manual re-import of the library, with interesting results:

When I started to work with JRiver two weeks ago, I did some renaming of the "genre tag" due to typos. After reimporting the audio files yesterday, these changes seemed to be gone.

Also a few albums I was shure I merged already within JRiver have been splitted again. So I tried to make a right click on these files/folders/albums and choosed "update library from tags" which solved the problem. The right genre-tags were there again, like I retagged them in JRiver before.

My question: Directly after reimporting the whole library, why does JRiver show wrong (old?) tags, and one has to manually update the files again? What am I doing wrong?

Funny enough: the Otello Album, you were importing without problems, was merged after the reimport, without changing anything. So no problem here, either.

But other albums are split again, though they were tagged in the right way, and they wont get merged, even if I update them manually. I really dont know why. Can the NAS be the problem?

For me it is really annoying to check hundreds of albums, whether they show up right, or not, I think you can understand.

By the way: I am shure, JRiver changes some of the tags (during import?), because "tool name" and "tool version" are written to the audio files. Is there a way to tell JRiver, it should not change metadata/tags, only until I tell it to do so?

Here is a screen, where you can see, that JRiver did edit the tags (album), which caused album splitting again:

I am just checking the whole library, currently i am at letter "b" (after hours...)

thanks for your help, again - I am rather at a loss

[vagskal]

Update the firmware for the Synology NAS to the latest version just in case. There was some time ago a bad build of the Synology firmware that caused me weird problems (the new firmware fixed it).

EDIT: Here is a link to the thread about my Synology issue: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=74890.0.

[MrC]

I think vagskal has identified the issue.  The key word was Synology.  After the update, lets see how things fare.

To be clear, "JRiver changes some of the tags (during import?)" might be more accurately stated that MC can add some tags, but it generally doesn't change existing tags on import.

You can disable tag writing (Edit > Update tags when file info changes, and several options under Tools > Import > Configure Auto-import).  But you will manually have to update your file's tags when you change properties inside MC henceforth, and re-enabling tag writing won't go find your stale values and update your file tags (you'll have to manually push out changes for all files).  So it is not advised.

[tiggerkater]

Thanks everybody, again,

Update the firmware for the Synology NAS to the latest version just in case.

I am just updating the NAS, I was running 3.2 DSM version, an older built, but I liked it. Lets see what happens after upgrade (never change a running system  ...)

Do you suggest to import the files again after the NAS update?

You can disable tag writing (Edit > Update tags when file info changes, and several options under Tools > Import > Configure Auto-import).  But you will manually have to update your file's tags when you change properties inside MC henceforth, and re-enabling tag writing won't go find your stale values and update your file tags (you'll have to manually push out changes for all files).  So it is not advised.

OK, I will leave this option checked. Thanks.

To be clear, "JRiver changes some of the tags (during import?)" might be more accurately stated that MC can add some tags, but it generally doesn't change existing tags on import.

Yes, JRiver adds the "Tool version" and "tool number" tag, but how can we explain, that the album title of the Beethoven Symphony has changed? (on the screenshot, I attached before) I did not change it myself, and only within the changed album title there was the JRiver tool-version-tag.

Thanks a lot, hope to post again, with good news, but anyway I have to check the albums...

Tiggerkater

[MrC]

Let's revisit any issues you have after the update.

I would re-import the entire library.  If the NAS was not providing correct data to MC, all bets are off until it does.

[stevebythebay]

Sorry if this is a duplicate.  Getting strange messages about already posting.

Anyway, I'm new to MC and a little baffled.  Have many imported albums where each song is being treated as a separate album.  Maybe you can help me figure out what's wrong and how to fix.

Here's an example of one.  Including a view of MC and the CSV (text file).

[MrC]

Tracks need to be in the same directory to be grouped as an Album.

You can use the Rename tool to place them into a single directory based on tags such as Album Artist (auto)\Album.

[stevebythebay]

Not sure what is happening here.  Almost all of my music lives in a single music folder without sub-folders.  It's d:\music\xxx.flac in format.  

I seem to find that the successful albums (where all songs appear) have filename of the sort album - artist - track -song . flac  (where only "song" differs).

Is that the problem?  That even though the comma separator format shows all of the songs as part of the album called "20 Party Classics" MC is not grouping them as such?

And sorry to be dense but where would I find the Rename tool?  I found this info which seems to be on point: http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Using_Album_Artist_and_Album_Artist_(Auto)
but I'm not exactly sure how to use this feature.  Do I highlight all the suspect songs and change artist to "Varies"?  I'm thinking that should work.

Sorry for my confusion.  Not as simple as iTunes ...

[MrC]

Your excellent export of the album shows the Album is the same across tracks.  There are no Disc # problems.  That's good.

Since you are a new user, can I assume that you have not changed any of the view settings?

I just did a test with a various artists album like yours, and moved the tracks into a single folder and that worked fine.

Just to be sure, can you select all of the tracks from the file list and show the Album tag in the Tag Action Window.  Does it say Varies, or does it say 20 Party Classics?

[stevebythebay]

Here's one other album that I have.  I only tried to update Album Artists tag to "Multiple Artists" but refreshing doesn't seem to do anything.

I'm probably not doing something in the right sequence...

[MrC]

You don't need to set Album Artist to anything for these - it should be empty since you don't want an overarching album artist for the album.

I notice that MC thinks this is a "Single artist (complete)" album.  So it appears you set Album Artist (auto) (which says "[Varies]") to individual values?  You don't want to do that, as Album Artist (auto) is an MC field (think of it as read-only).

[stevebythebay]

So, what should I do to ensure all of the individual files are tagged correctly?  Nevermind I think I got it.  Once I changed Album Artist to blank and refreshed that seems to have worked.

Guess there is much, much more to learn about MC and taming this beast...

[MrC]

Your data looked OK.

Let's try one more thing.  Export the 20 Party Classics album as an mpl playlist for the album selection only and attach that.  I want to try to reproduce what you are seeing.

MC has an album analyzer that scans the tracks and coalesces individual tracks into an album.  It sets certain properties such as Complete and Single vs. Multiple Artists.  So I'd like to see with your data I can reproduce it.

Alternatively, you could bundle the first 3 tracks together and make those available so I can import them and test.

[stevebythebay]

Seems this forum doesn't allow me to attach mpl files.  Can send to you in private email if you wish.

[MrC]

You can just zip the file, or change the suffix.

I'll send you a PM anyway.

Please confirm that you have not modified the Album view in any way.

[MrC]

stevebythebay, I've tried every possible way I can imagine to reproduce your issue, but have been unable to.  All methods, using the stock Album view, always groups the album together regardless of where the tracks are located.  You might want to try deleting the tracks from MC (select the tracks, hit Delete and select the first option to delete only from MC's database).

Now, create a Smartlist  (F9) and click Import/Export.  Paste exactly the following:

   ~d=r

and hit OK.  You'll see the tracks you just deleted from MC.  Select those, and hit Delete to remove them from this special Deleted database.

Now, allow MC's auto-import to run to re-import the 20 Party Classics tracks, or manually import them.

[stevebythebay]

Sorry you weren't able to make any headway.  But I resolved it by "blanking" various from the album artist, hitting enter and refreshing all of the separate album entries came together in a single album.  In most cases when I did this the tracks were also correctly listed 1 through xx.

Thanks for all your help.

[MrC]

Good to hear.  I mentioned in post #35 that you should clear Album Artist.

[Karolis]

Hi guys. I also have an issue with importing and tags. Some albums (only classical music) after import has last track (always last) with different tags. After it really got annoying to update tags manually, I did some research and managed to reproduce this bug with  media center v18.0.175. What happens is that for some reason last track tags are taken not from flac but from cue file.

[kstuart]

That's a known bug.

If you have individual flac files, then you need to prevent MC18 from reading the cue file at all.  Easiest way is to add ".file" to the end, so it no longer thinks it is a cue file.

[tiggerkater]

Hello everybody,

I did not comment to this thread a long time, but in fact the problems from my first post occured again from time to time.

The root of the problem could cause as well the cue sheets, because often I have cuesheets in my music folders, too.

Is there a rule to tell jriver not to import cue sheets without renaming them all?

thanks a lot!

Greetings tiggerkater

[icstm]

Hi yes you can easily not import CUE files

I found that importing CUE files caused me lots of problems from the first time I used JRiver.

So the way I solve this is that I am VERY picky on what file types I import for which folders.
So for music folders I do not import ANY playlists, pictures, and only import known music formats for my collections (mainly FLAC and mp3). Other formats might apply to specific folders which I manually import if needed.
I am not in front of JRiver right now, but within the library options you can specify which formats to include.
It might be called auto-import rules, or something.