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[daveman]

Hi there,

I am thinking of setting up an HTPC in my theatre.  I do  not have a particular budget.  What I want is something small, silent, and fast.

In essence, it will be usered as a renderer (I hope that is the correct term) given that the main library will be located on a different computer.  All media is stored on a 12 tb network located in a different room (CAT 6 network). 

I also want to be able to watch TV via JRiver.  I do not yet have a TV card and assume it would be set up on the network PC.

In essence, I want a device which can be used in theatre mode but which is NOT being used to run JRiver or my library.  Currently, I use a WDTV Live Hub which plays videos well but does not allow Theatre mode.

suggestions?

dave

[astromo]

I am thinking of setting up an HTPC in my theatre.  I do  not have a particular budget.  What I want is something small, silent, and fast.

For a quiet case and power supply, I'd suggest you look at:
http://www.hd-plex.com/
Note, I'm not a stock holder or in any way involved with these guys other than owning their kit and being happy about the deal in the process.

This forum thread talks about a small case (H1) in the pipeline:
http://www.hd-plex.com/forum/showthread.php?t=841

Larry, the guy who heads up the show is very responsive and is keen to help potential users make the right choice and support those who've taken the plunge.

A substantial portion of my video is stored in a NAS that MC sucks out over the network no problem. For TV, I use a network digital TV streamer for free to air from Silicon Dust, i.e. HD HomeRun. This approach avoids the need for a TV card internal to the case.

I use a CPU with integrated graphics to avoid the additional hardware and heat of a graphics card inside the case. Video quality is fine with an i3-3220T. The 35W TDP keeps temperatures cool. I had a 65W TDP CPU before but the system appeared to have suffered from running warm over extended periods. Random crashes increased over a number of months to the point where I got fed up and changed out the mobo and the CPU. I also made some furniture changes to make sure the HTPC got better air flow.

There are other options as far as skinning the cat and hardware supply but that should get you thinking.

[mschneid]

In essence, I want a device which can be used in theatre mode but which is NOT being used to run JRiver or my library.  Currently, I use a WDTV Live Hub which plays videos well but does not allow Theatre mode.

I dont understand... you want a PC with software that does what jriver does..  (theatre view) but is not running jriver???

If you don't like the wdtv live hub DLNA software... you can fine another dlna streamer and hope you like their dlna interface more... but if you want theatre view... you have to run jriver as a client to your media server.... (that is the point of jriver!)

[daveman]

I will have jriver on the unit but it will access the main library from a second computer (by syncing the library??).  What I am saying is that the HTPC will ultimately act as a streamer that has theatre view.

[mschneid]

Ah... you want one jriver machine to be your media server with the library of music, pics and vids.   Then you want another machine in your listening room running jriver as a client only... (no media files stored on this machine in its jriver library) just jriver by default running theatre view using the servers library. 

You call this a streamer or renderer... I call it a client. (jriver on a pc in client mode running theatre view)   (the jriver library of music /video  is in another room) so... the only quesiton is how do you connect the two.  wifi or cabeling  and what level of speed do you need  for the size of the files you want to send to the PC and then the graphics ability of the pc for the quality of video you want to send to your display. 

How close to the gold standard of blu ray audio and video do you want to get?

[daveman]

As close as I can get to the gold standard would be nice

dave

[InflatableMouse]

I guess the important question is to what level do you want to use Madvr? Do you want the best possible video output, are you oke with medium or is Red October standard good enough for you?

The builtin GPU in an i5 or i7 cpu (HD4000) is capable of running medium madvr settings but will struggle on some upscaling + deinterlacing so there's the compromise. If you want a better experience, a discrete videocard is required. A card that does it all will require a good power supply and will be actively cooled (have a fan). Passive cards are also an option, but they are not fast enough for the full experience. From the Nvidia camp there is the GT640 and GT430 and from AMD there is the Radeon 7750. In raw power, I think AMD here is the fastest one but its not fast enough to go all out on Madvr. And in all fairness, Madvr has a slight favor for Nvidia (Full screen window mode is only available on Nvidia, for instance). I own a GT430 myself and although its slightly better than the builtin HD4000 I wouldn't go that route again, the difference is not big enough IMO.

Another option is to get a fast card that is not passive and replace the cooler for an aftermarket passive one. This voids warranty though but if you're absolutely set on getting everything out of Madvr and get a perfectly silent setup, this option might be worth investigating. I have no idea how big of a card you can get with a passive aftermarket cooler though, you'll have to do your own research. You also have to consider your case as a passive cooler in a small closed system might still overheat if there isn't sufficient fresh air flowing past it.

Then there's the question of audio. You gave no info on your system so I can't really comment.

[daveman]

Hi there,

I am looking to set up a client that will do high level video (I will get a second video card) and good audio.  I just need to know what specs I should be looking into but the machine needs to be SMALL and Quiet.

I am also looking to set up a second client that can play streamed video and audio (mp3) (decent quality).

The smaller unit is going into my den and will be used to watch movies and tv in the den and to control music in the den and in my backyard.  I am trying to keep it small and relatively cheap.

The dream machine will go into my theatre.

Both units will get media from my 12tb server.  My entire home is wired with CAT6 cabling.

[JustinM]

The Dream HTPC is a tough trick...
-For a well priced, small and all-round good htpc; I've been happy with the  Zotac...(s)
-I tried doing the Fast and Quiet HTPC: I went with: i7 with (massive) passive cooler, fanless PS, and Radeon 5750..
The fan on the 5750 is dead silent for htpc use.  (always off I think)
Though  if your a gamer the fan will spool up and I can over heat my pc gaming, because my Case not ventilated well enough...

good luck

deffinately consider the links Astromo posted above!
(looks like I need a new case:))

[6233638]

Madvr has a slight favor for Nvidia (Full screen window mode is only available on Nvidia, for instance)

As I understand it, this is because AMD don't support the features required for Windowed Overlay mode, for example. Similarly, older AMD cards have trouble with DXVA2 Copy-Back.
Madshi seems to strive for feature parity as much as possible when developing madVR.

Another option is to get a fast card that is not passive and replace the cooler for an aftermarket passive one. This voids warranty though but if you're absolutely set on getting everything out of Madvr and get a perfectly silent setup, this option might be worth investigating. I have no idea how big of a card you can get with a passive aftermarket cooler though, you'll have to do your own research. You also have to consider your case as a passive cooler in a small closed system might still overheat if there isn't sufficient fresh air flowing past it.

Honestly, I'm not a fan of completely passive systems. I love the idea of being able to build a PC that doesn't have a fan or a spinning disk inside it - but I've never seen a passive system that doesn't throttle its performance due to heat build-up. If you have a passive heatsink on the CPU, and a passive graphics card, then you need a fan inside the case moving air over them anyway.

The only real exception to this, is if you have a system that is only being used as an audio server, because that's only going to be using a small fraction of any modern CPU. (say 1%)


It's too bad that the desktop Haswell chips don't have the faster GPUs available on the mobile chips. Those might have enough performance for Jinc 3 scaling.
The GPUs on the desktop chips definitely aren't fast enough to use that on everything though.

I can't say what the minimum GPU is for madVR to work at its best though.
I like the look of the new ASUS GTX 670 DirectCU Mini for an m-ITX build, but it's almost certainly not a quiet card. (and overkill for madVR - at least for now)

[jmone]

I've got a Shuttle Barebones in which I could (just) cram in a ASUS GTX 660 DirectCU II OC which is heaps for madVR with an i7 and BD Drive.  Small and quiet.  As the OP says it pulls all content from the server.

[glynor]

The ASUS GTX 660 TOP.

EDIT:  Oh yeah, and they're on sale this weekend at Newegg.

[6233638]

The ASUS GTX 660 TOP.
EDIT:  Oh yeah, and they're on sale this weekend at Newegg.

That thing looks huge compared to the ASUS GTX 670 DirectCU Mini.

[jmone]

The last time I got a low profile GPU it lasted two days as the fans where small and spun like crazy... making it far from quiet

[glynor]

That thing looks huge compared to the ASUS GTX 670 DirectCU Mini.

The last time I got a low profile GPU it lasted two days as the fans where small and spun like crazy... making it far from quiet

Exactly.

Smaller != better in almost all cases with video cards.  It almost certainly doesn't mean quieter.  The ASUS GTX 660 TOP is extremely quiet.  Well below the noise floor of your average system.  It does have fans, but even at load, it is quite inaudible, according to all the reviews I've read.

[jmone]

Yup mine sounded like it was powered by a small jet engine under load.

[astromo]

The Dream HTPC is a tough trick...
-For a well priced, small and all-round good htpc; I've been happy with the  Zotac...(s)
-I tried doing the Fast and Quiet HTPC: I went with: i7 with (massive) passive cooler, fanless PS, and Radeon 5750..
The fan on the 5750 is dead silent for htpc use.  (always off I think)
Though  if your a gamer the fan will spool up and I can over heat my pc gaming, because my Case not ventilated well enough...

good luck

deffinately consider the links Astromo posted above!
(looks like I need a new case:))

In case anyone thinks I'm one eyed, this review throws up some other alternatives along the passive line, i.e. no fans = silent:
http://www.kulture.com.au/10-of-the-best-passively-cooled-hpc-cases/

If you need to run a discrete graphics card then you'd be looking at an H5 or H10 case in the HD-Plex range. Then your challenge is finding a passively cooled graphics card. The answers are out there. I just haven't looked.. 

[Thumper]

I like the idea of fanless so a case like this http://www.logicsupply.com/blog/2013/06/03/fanless_nuc/ with a NUC would be nice.

That said I think there will be a number of Haswell fanless solutions coming, the problem is when.

 

[astromo]

Well, for that kind of size you might want to keep an eye on this development:
http://www.hd-plex.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2137&postcount=47

It's a long thread but the above comes from this page:
http://www.hd-plex.com/forum/showthread.php?t=841&page=5