More > JRiver Media Center 19 for Windows
NEW: Improved memory playback
6233638:
--- Quote from: InflatableMouse on August 17, 2013, 01:56:34 am ---If dsf isn't a problem you could consider converting them maybe?
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Are there any tools to convert DFF to DSF? I could always re-rip, but anyone that's done that before, knows why I am reluctant to do so.
DSF files are limited to 2 channels, and DST compression saves you 50% space - which is a huge amount. (uncompressed DSD is much larger than anything else)
If anything, I'd rather be converting all my rips to DFF files with DST compression, and discarding the stereo tracks when there's a multichannel one available - but right now multichannel doesn't level properly when downmixed, and I don't have the option of bitstreaming that.
It just seems like Media Center has gone from being this nice efficient player, to wasting a gig of RAM for seemingly no benefit, and a number of performance regressions.
I don't even have to be doing anything complex on my system for the new memory playback to have an impact - if I'm playing anything using DST compression and scrolling a web page, it starts skipping every time there's a track change.
As I mentioned above, it seems like a better use of that RAM would be to cache the currently playing and next track in memory, instead of this huge buffer of decoded audio.
InflatableMouse:
I'm afraid I can't really help you with that. I've played with SACD ISO's and I thought it was too much work and I didn't have time to read up on it. I still have the ISO's on disk, but for most of them I got the regular CD's ripped to Flac.
So while I admit I don't know anything about it and I'm probably not very helpful ::), but isn't it an option to convert sacd iso's with MC19 to DSD? I tried one track and the result is a dsf file which seems to be the same as as the bunch of dff files I have.
6233638:
--- Quote from: InflatableMouse on August 17, 2013, 04:43:38 am ---I'm afraid I can't really help you with that. I've played with SACD ISO's and I thought it was too much work and I didn't have time to read up on it. I still have the ISO's on disk, but for most of them I got the regular CD's ripped to Flac.
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It's easy enough to go from SACD ISO to either DSF or DFF (sacd_extract will do it) but I don't know how to perform the conversion from one format to the other after that. If the tracks are uncompressed, I have already converted them to DSF (I prefer individual tracks to an ISO) but if they are compressed, I keep them as DFF files. Multichannel discs require the use of compression, and most stereo discs are uncompressed. It makes sense that they would be uncompressed just to fill out the disc, but it's a pain when you are trying to rip a collection and have to store the files.
--- Quote from: InflatableMouse on August 17, 2013, 04:43:38 am ---So while I admit I don't know anything about it and I'm probably not very helpful ::), but isn't it an option to convert sacd iso's with MC19 to DSD? I tried one track and the result is a dsf file which seems to be the same as as the bunch of dff files I have.
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As I understand it, Media Center's DSD conversion converts to PCM and then encodes to a DSD file. So you effectively double the noise on each track. (or try and filter out the noise, and add it back)
I don't see converting files and doubling their size on disk as a solution though - Media Center 18 had no problem with these files.
And even after conversion, they're still not going to fit into that 1GB buffer.
kstuart:
So are you saying that the reason you don't want to just turn it off, is that you like the MC18 memory playback "that has no benefit", but not the MC19 memory playback "that has no benefit" ?
And by the way, real-time decompression of multi-channel SACDs is unquestionably the most CPU-intensive audio playback task. Before Matt added the multi-threading, I had difficulty doing it at all with marginal PCs.
Lastly, SACDs that have multi-channel tracks and stereo tracks, often have different audio from different sources on the stereo track. Sometimes, that means the stereo tracks have value. Sometimes the multichannel tracks have been done better, sometimes the stereo tracks. I like multichannel audio, but those tracks are not automatically better just because they are multichannel. It varies from release to release, there are no reliable patterns.
6233638:
--- Quote from: kstuart on August 17, 2013, 02:02:11 pm ---So are you saying that the reason you don't want to just turn it off, is that you like the MC18 memory playback "that has no benefit", but not the MC19 memory playback "that has no benefit" ?
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No audible benefit. MC18/19 sound the same whether memory playback is enabled in them or not.
In MC18 when you enable memory playback, seeking is instant with all files (as the entire file is cached in RAM) and disk/network I/O cannot interrupt playback. (e.g. multiple file copy operations running in another program) CPU usage is low, because Media Center is only trying to fill a ~40MB buffer.
In MC19 seeking is instant once the track has been decoded if it fits into the 1GB cache - but memory usage is much higher as it caches decoded audio rather than the compressed file.
When the decoded audio does not fit into memory (common with DSD) disk/network I/O can impact playback or seeking performance. CPU usage is very high when tracks change or you seek, because it's now trying to fill a 1GB buffer instead of 40MB.
In MC18 I bet you could play a track over your network, pull the plug, and it would play to the end. In MC19 the track might stop halfway through. (assuming it's a large DSD file)
I think MC18's memory playback was a much better design than we have now, and the only improvement it needed would be to cache both the current and next track, instead of only the current track - that gives you 3+ minutes to grab the next file, instead of ~10s.
In theory, MC19's memory playback feature could make playback less susceptible to interruption due to high CPU usage, but that has never been a concern for me, and the high CPU usage inside MC19 now interferes with other programs running on the system.
--- Quote from: kstuart on August 17, 2013, 02:02:11 pm ---And by the way, real-time decompression of multi-channel SACDs is unquestionably the most CPU-intensive audio playback task. Before Matt added the multi-threading, I had difficulty doing it at all with marginal PCs.
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I have an i5 2500K running at 4.5GHz - it should not be an issue.
--- Quote from: kstuart on August 17, 2013, 02:02:11 pm ---Lastly, SACDs that have multi-channel tracks and stereo tracks, often have different audio from different sources on the stereo track. Sometimes, that means the stereo tracks have value. Sometimes the multichannel tracks have been done better, sometimes the stereo tracks. I like multichannel audio, but those tracks are not automatically better just because they are multichannel. It varies from release to release, there are no reliable patterns.
--- End quote ---
Well that's part of the reason I've kept both so far. I still prefer converting to DSF/DFF files than SACD ISO though, as it means I can tag them properly. (and the metadata is stored in them with DSF files)
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