More > JRiver Media Center 19 for Windows
NEW: Improved audio analysis and volume leveling (R128)
Vocalpoint:
--- Quote from: mwillems on August 20, 2013, 09:46:48 am --- I seem to recall that JRiver's implementation of the ReplayGain standard was about 6 dB different than the actual standard (but tagged in a way that allowed compatibility with players using the normal standard). The specification for the official ReplayGain standard target is -14 LUFS (89dB calibration) http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=ReplayGain_specification#Clipping_prevention, and JRiver's implementation was -20 LUFS (83 dB calibration) to bring it in line with film mastering/movie theater calibration.
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Yes - however I still added "+6db Fixed" in Volume Leveling to my playback - essentially pushing the JR implementation back to the RG standard. I have found this to be absolutely perfect for my entire library.
--- Quote from: mwillems on August 20, 2013, 09:46:48 am ---So the new volume leveling target will be about 3 dB quieter than the old volume leveling target (bracketing out other differences in the way the standards work that might affect how successfully they're hitting the target). Subjectively, for what it's worth, the new volume leveling doesn't sound much quieter to me than the old volume leveling, just much more consistent in it's effects.
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Good to know. I look forward to using the new system...
Q: Within all the changes made here - is it possible to just dip my toe into the R128 pool slowly when transitioning to v19? That is to say - can I count on my existing ReplayGain values to work as usual in v19 or do I have to go all in with R128 right off the bat?
For me - my audio analysis metadata is critical and I certainly do not want to trash my library (or prematurely stop using RG) in one fell swoop when I make the move to v19. Would rather experiment (and potentially move away from RG) in a slow graduated process before going all in with R128.
Appreciate any comments on this..
VP
6233638:
--- Quote from: mantis07 on August 20, 2013, 07:43:32 am ---how do I go about displaying the DR value of an analyzed song?
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Right click a column and select Dynamic Range (DR) to add it.
--- Quote from: Vocalpoint on August 20, 2013, 08:19:30 am ---I have since found out that ReplayGain is essentially = -18LUFS.
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The ReplayGain 2 specification is based upon the ITU BS.1770-2, which is what the R128 specification that JRiver have implemented in MC19 is based upon. It also specifies a target level of -23 LUFS. (actually denoted LKFS in the spec, but it's the same thing)
--- Quote from: Vocalpoint on August 20, 2013, 08:19:30 am ---And I finally found the document that I was thinking about in relation to my -15 LUFS suggestion...and it's here...
http://techblog.studio-compyfox.de/media/tech-doc/tech001_2012-Q2_K-System_v2.pdf
This document combines the best attributes of R128 with the Bob Katz "K System" and proposes a different target LUFS with the respect to music production. I feel this -16 LUFS standard is more in line with what one would have been experiencing with ReplayGain and it addresses the sharply quieter playback that the standard -23 LUFS target gives. That standard target was created to address the needs of ongoing broadcast material (voices, spots, music etc) in TV/radio and to me - simply is too aggressive a target to apply to my own library from home use.
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This paper is focused on music production rather than playback, and the argument throughout seems to be that there will be resistance to adopting -23 LUFS in production because it's not loud enough - which is exactly the kind of thinking that got us where we are now with highly compressed dynamics in the first place. (because it used to be that broadcast used peak normaliation) The proposed "K-System v2" is to make the transition to -23 LUFS easier, rather than going directly to it for production.
But the whole point of R128 is that it doesn't matter how loud a track was produced, it will be normalized to -23 LUFS regardless, and it puts tracks with highly compressed dynamics at a disadvantage. (because the compression was used to make them loud)
-16 LUFS means that one third of my library is unable to be normalized. Even if I remove classical tracks, it's still 27% of my library.
And in broadcast, some radio stations have already implemented R128 normalization.
--- Quote from: Vocalpoint on August 20, 2013, 08:19:30 am ---I will be able to speak to this much better of course when I install v19 - but we are not ready for that just yet.. :)
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I don't think it's fair to be criticizing the -23 LUFS target, if you haven't tried it. R128 normalization ≠ ReplayGain v1.
Vocalpoint:
--- Quote from: 6233638 on August 20, 2013, 11:39:44 am ---I don't think it's fair to be criticizing the -23 LUFS target, if you haven't tried it. R128 normalization ≠ ReplayGain v1.
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Well - I did not say (nor imply) that I have not tried/used R128.
I have been using it for a long while within my pro audio work. But normalizing a typical pop/rock track to the -23LUFS target within current tools like Wavelab 8 - which has a state of the art R128 conversion tool - is in my opinion - a perhaps a tad much. I guess I need to understand it more.
Now I did say I have not tried R128 with MC v19. Hence the reasons for my questions. Just trying to understand what's new and what's available.
Cheers,
VP
6233638:
--- Quote from: Vocalpoint on August 20, 2013, 11:59:13 am ---Well - I did not say (nor imply) that I have not tried/used R128.
I have been using it for a long while within my pro audio work. But normalizing a typical pop/rock track to the -23LUFS target within current tools like Wavelab 8 - which has a state of the art R128 conversion tool - is in my opinion - a perhaps a tad much. I guess I need to understand it more.
Now I did say I have not tried R128 with MC v19. Hence the reasons for my questions. Just trying to understand what's new and what's available.
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Ah I remember we had this discussion a while ago.
Your editing tools do not appear to be simply normalizing the volume to conform to the R128 spec, but making other changes to the waveform such as adjusting the dynamic range.
R128 analysis and leveling only adjusts the volume level during playback - nothing else.
The point is that R128 analysis gives a much more accurate measurement of the track's perceived loudness than ReplayGain did, and now includes checks to prevent inter-sample clipping.
satfrat:
Just want to give the MC Team KUDOS for developing this new volume leveling. As I use JRiver mainly as an audio player for my album library, I'm noticing an immediate improvement in audio quality and this alone was well worth the MC19 upgrade.
On the minus side, STILL no MiniView options,,,,,,,,,,, ?
Cheers,
Robin
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