Devices > Video Cards, Monitors, Televisions, and Projectors
4K TV's
6233638:
--- Quote from: Sparks67 on November 13, 2013, 10:08:43 pm ---The best quality on the market is Sharp! Seiki is a upstart China company that has about 4 years experience. I personally will wait a few years, but we have used Chinese LCD monitors at work. They last about a year. So, the choice is yours on what you want to buy in 4k.
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I think Sharp make great LCD panels, but bad televisions. Their image processing and controls leave a lot to be desired. I was very happy when Sony was using Sharp panels for a year or so rather than Samsung panels, but unfortunately they decided not to continue that partnership.
My point though, is that it is not expensive to make a 4K television - they're only expensive just now because they're new, and that means they can get away with charging a premium price for them.
Frankly, I wouldn't buy any 4K TV on the market right now, because they're all edge-lit LCDs. LED backlit displays don't seem to be in favor any more, so I'll have to wait for 4K OLED before upgrading from my current TV.
--- Quote from: Vocalpoint on November 13, 2013, 10:34:24 pm ---Of course there will be knockoffs - but that's not something I would ever consider buying. And - until there is content - I mean lots of it like 7.99 @ Best Buy...and a well appointed Sharp or Samsung 60 inch 4K TV is $999.00 @ Costco....then I would consider it "commercial". Until then - I am very happy with what I have now.
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Well as I said above, there is plenty of content for 4K displays right now - just not a lot of 4K native video. We will hopefully hear something about a consumer 4K format from CES in January.
Sparks67:
--- Quote from: 6233638 on November 13, 2013, 11:44:01 pm ---I think Sharp make great LCD panels, but bad televisions. Their image processing and controls leave a lot to be desired. I was very happy when Sony was using Sharp panels for a year or so rather than Samsung panels, but unfortunately they decided not to continue that partnership.
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I own a Sony and it is one of the models that only lasted 3 years. How would you like to hear from Sony that your 70" LCOS TV needs to be replaced every 3 years. Sony has their own facebook page on replacement, "I Have a Defective Sony TV". I never own another Sony product again. Most of the LCD panels are made from Chimei Innolux (CMI) and AU Optronics (AUO). Sharp is making IGZO panels, which is in the new Apple Air. That is the new technology that I primary interested in for 4k.
The biggest problem with 4k is distance to the screen. For example, Sharp's new 70" 4k LED, the recommended viewing distance is 6 feet away. Typically, now with my 1080p tv. I am sitting around 10 to 11 feet away. I see that I probably need a 90" 4k TV or perhaps a projector. 8k is going to be even closer. Japan wanted to skip 4k and go to 8k screens. Audio right now is still at 7.1, but here is the recommended standard from NHK. http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/publica/bt/en/fe0045-6.pdf I doubt we see any changes for audio for awhile.
--- Quote from: 6233638 on November 13, 2013, 11:44:01 pm ---My point though, is that it is not expensive to make a 4K television - they're only expensive just now because they're new, and that means they can get away with charging a premium price for them.
Frankly, I wouldn't buy any 4K TV on the market right now, because they're all edge-lit LCDs. LED backlit displays don't seem to be in favor any more, so I'll have to wait for 4K OLED before upgrading from my current TV.
Well as I said above, there is plenty of content for 4K displays right now - just not a lot of 4K native video. We will hopefully hear something about a consumer 4K format from CES in January.
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Based on demand, but this is so similar to the early HDTV's in the 1990's. The content in the HDTV content was from C-Band, and then Directv started in 1994. C-band had the better picture for HDTV, well, it is coming back again for 4k. http://www.tvtechnology.com/news/0086/satellite-companies-prepare-for-ultra-hd/221086 DirectV is going back to Ka Band for 4k, but you have lot of compression. Rain fade again!
One of these days we all optical fiber, but it will take awhile. Rumour is that Sony is going to try Bluray 4k, but there is another format coming. http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/open2012/html/tenji/index_e.html The new format has higher data rates that Bluray, and bigger capacity. I suspect that it will become the new media format soon.
You do know about Sony's 56" 4k OLED, it was jointly developed with Au Optronics. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/monitors/display/20131001235555_Sony_Demonstrates_56_4K_UHDTV_with_OLED_Panel.html
6233638:
--- Quote from: Sparks67 on November 14, 2013, 01:57:48 am ---I own a Sony and it is one of the models that only lasted 3 years. How would you like to hear from Sony that your 70" LCOS TV needs to be replaced every 3 years. Sony has their own facebook page on replacement, "I Have a Defective Sony TV". I never own another Sony product again.
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Rear projection televisions have always been quite unreliable, and many people were sold them without even knowing that you have to replace the lamp in them every few years. Sony's SXRDs did have a massive recall though, due to defective optical blocks causing green blobs to show up over the image.
--- Quote from: Sparks67 on November 14, 2013, 01:57:48 am ---The biggest problem with 4k is distance to the screen. For example, Sharp's new 70" 4k LED, the recommended viewing distance is 6 feet away. Typically, now with my 1080p tv. I am sitting around 10 to 11 feet away. I see that I probably need a 90" 4k TV or perhaps a projector. 8k is going to be even closer.
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Well, a lot of people sit too far from their TVs, or choose displays which are too small. But the distance at which 4K provides a benefit is further than many people expect. On many AV sites there's a bogus chart I see posted all the time, which says you need to sit much closer than you actually do.
It seems like the same FUD that was spread about 1080p back when it was just being introduced, before it was widely available at mainstream prices. (no point in 1080p below 60", no sources for it etc.)
Once we see 4K panels at lower prices from big names, people's opinion on it will change.
--- Quote from: Sparks67 on November 14, 2013, 01:57:48 am ---Japan wanted to skip 4k and go to 8k screens.
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Until you can look at a television and be fooled into thinking it's reality, we don't have enough resolution. Even 8K doesn't get you there, and even without native sources, higher resolution panels reduce other distracting elements from the display, so even watching content upscaled is better than watching it on a natively lower resolution display.
--- Quote from: Sparks67 on November 14, 2013, 01:57:48 am ---Audio right now is still at 7.1, but here is the recommended standard from NHK. http://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/publica/bt/en/fe0045-6.pdf I doubt we see any changes for audio for awhile.
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Yeah, I think the way that audio is headed is unrealistic. Few people I know are willing to have a proper 5.1 setup (if they have 5.1 the speakers are often all sitting in a row next to each other) and fewer would be willing to move to 7.1
I've experimented with surround sound in the past, and for all the hassle, it just never seemed worth it. I'd rather buy a pair of nice stereo speakers than split that money over 5/7 bad ones.
I'm a lot more excited about AMD's TrueAudio than adding more speakers. (apparently this technology can also be made to work well with speakers rather than just headphones)
22.2 audio may be used to help improve virtual audio rather than actually being intended to be used to 22 speaker setups - at least I hope that is their intention.
--- Quote from: Sparks67 on November 14, 2013, 01:57:48 am ---You do know about Sony's 56" 4k OLED, it was jointly developed with Au Optronics. http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/monitors/display/20131001235555_Sony_Demonstrates_56_4K_UHDTV_with_OLED_Panel.html
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I'm very aware of this display, but I doubt they will be widely available or affordable any time soon. The plan right now is to sell them as broadcast monitors next year. (probably $20,000-30,000)
jmone:
Wake me up when we have 4K source material and I'll happily pony up the $'s for the HW. Here in Oz all the commercial TV Channels have dropped their HD TV broadcast (!&%$@!*&%) and I'm stuck with SD for FTA.... Even the selection of HD Pay TV is limited and much of it is badly compressed. Looks like the average consumer just wants a wider selection of "content" over "quality".
6233638:
--- Quote from: jmone on November 14, 2013, 02:56:34 am ---Wake me up when we have 4K source material and I'll happily pony up the $'s for the HW. Here in Oz all the commercial TV Channels have dropped their HD TV broadcast (!&%$@!*&%) and I'm stuck with SD for FTA.... Even the selection of HD Pay TV is limited and much of it is badly compressed. Looks like the average consumer just wants a wider selection of "content" over "quality".
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I think what you meant to say was "wake me up when we have 4K broadcast" - we have plenty of 4K source material, just not much commercial 4K video, and no 4K broadcast yet.
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