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Author Topic: Licencing practice  (Read 2349 times)

GM

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Licencing practice
« on: January 07, 2014, 06:09:49 am »

Hello, I recently purchased MC 19 for MAC having talked to someone about this product. I was seriously disappointed to discover the MAC version bares no resemblance to the PC version. Not only that I managed to crash it seven times in a very short period.
I decided to download the PC version having heard that I could use the same licence to install on the PC. The PC version does actually look like its description, surprise surprise. Problem is I can't use the Licence key supplied to get it registered. Either the Licencing practice is very broken or someone is not telling the truth.
No matter what prescribed method I use to register the product, the software always reports that the registration was successful, but the registration info menu option always reports that the product is not registered and every few times I start the software I am asked to re-register, which I have tried to no avail.
I am thus far seriously unimpressed with this product and wonder about the wisdom of using it at all.
Can someone please clarify?
GM
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Vocalpoint

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Re: Bad licenceing practice.
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2014, 06:59:04 am »

I decided to download the PC version having heard that I could use the same licence to install on the PC.

I do not believe you can use a Mac license to install the PC version and vice versa.

Hopefully J.RIver can confirm this.

VP
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astromo

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Re: Bad licenceing practice.
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2014, 07:00:15 am »

Hello, I recently purchased MC 19 for MAC having talked to someone about this product. I was seriously disappointed to discover the MAC version bares no resemblance to the PC version. Not only that I managed to crash it seven times in a very short period.
I decided to download the PC version having heard that I could use the same licence to install on the PC. The PC version does actually look like its description, surprise surprise. Problem is I can't use the Licence key supplied to get it registered. Either the Licencing practice is very broken or someone is not telling the truth.
No matter what prescribed method I use to register the product, the software always reports that the registration was successful, but the registration info menu option always reports that the product is not registered and every few times I start the software I am asked to re-register, which I have tried to no avail.
I am thus far seriously unimpressed with this product and wonder about the wisdom of using it at all.
Can someone please clarify?
GM

I disagree with your comment about the quality of the licencing methodology used by J River. While I can understand that some may expect a cross platform value proposition, the licencing basis is available from detail provided from the J River web site and the Interact forum.

From a minimal search I found these links:
http://www.jriver.com/mac.html
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=31.0

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=78389.0 that includes this statement in the first post:
Quote
PRICE
It is $49.98.

While the price is discounted, there will be no additional discount offered for anyone who has previously purchased a Windows license.  We may revisit this later.

There would be sense to articulate the details noted above, here:
http://www.jriver.com/purchase.html
for the approach applied to Windows, Mac and Linux, in that they are available for licence separately.

Please bear in mind that the licence includes a portable version (well at least for Windows) and a basis of covering a home. I have my own view of a fair and reasonable value proposition and I believe J River delivers in spades ... but that's just my opinion.

Hope your initial disappointment is overcome by the enjoyment that the software has brought me since version 17...  8)
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astromo

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Re: Bad licenceing practice.
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2014, 07:08:00 am »

Also, I'd point you to this from J River's history:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=83930.0
- it's one of many examples that you'll find dispersed throughout the forum.

For me anyway, J River's track record is solid in supporting new users having difficulties such as yours. When individual users have struggled with installation and licencing problems, the response from the J River team is typically swift and effective. With a little patience, I'm confident you'll have your problem seen to in short order.
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Arindelle

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2014, 09:01:28 am »

Hello, I recently purchased MC 19 for MAC having talked to someone about this product. I was seriously disappointed to discover the MAC version bares no resemblance to the PC version. Not only that I managed to crash it seven times in a very short period.
I decided to download the PC version having heard that I could use the same licence to install on the PC.

The Mac Version and the Windows versions have separate licences. They are not transferable. It would be helpful if you could indicate where you heard that you could use the same licence for both products.

As stated above sorry you are not pleased.  It will take some time to have identical functionality for the Mac version as the Windows version, but the devs are really not keeping this on the back burner. The Mac version has had 51 upgrades in the last 12 months! 

Be that as it may I can understand confusion about differences in the versions, but wasn't it clear you had a 30 day free trial period? You purchase the license from within the program itself, so I don't understand why you would have purchased the mac version if unsatisfied. Was this a gift?

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JohnT

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2014, 09:45:38 am »

Either the Licencing practice is very broken or someone is not telling the truth.
As stated by others, there is a separate license for the Mac and Windows products.  If you heard otherwise, it must have come from someone outside JRiver.

Quote
No matter what prescribed method I use to register the product, the software always reports that the registration was successful, but the registration info menu option always reports that the product is not registered and every few times I start the software I am asked to re-register, which I have tried to no avail.
Sorry for the confusion, the messaging should be better on this.  Any JRiver product can read and install any JRiver license, that's why it's showing the 'success' message. But a "Media center for Mac" license installed on a Windows machine will not unlock the "Media Center for Windows" product (and vice-versa).
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John Thompson, JRiver Media Center

akira54

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 10:27:37 am »

As a recent user of the Windows version of MC I think it should be said that the advertising of the MAC version of MC is confusing at best and to be honest, I found it downright misleading. Statements along the lines that a Mac version is available now suggest to anyone new to the product that you are going to get something similar to the Windows version and this is clearly not (yet) the case. It would help if it were made very clear what exactly you would get if you bought a license for a non-Windows version.
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GM

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 02:09:59 am »

I have read all the responses on this question and to be honest I'm rather confused by the vagueness of some of the content. Akira54 is the only response that I agree with and makes sense.

I am an Audio professional working at the very sharp end of the audio business and as such I have many softwares which I need to perform all of the tasks I need to achieve. Without question all of these softwares deal with licencing far better than what I have seen here.

Point number 1, none of these softwares I have purchased put any restrictions on whether I use a MAC or PC version, with the same licence, the impression I get here is that if I am dumb enough to buy a MAC version from JRiver, then don't like it because it appears to be not fit for purpose, am I supposed to buy another version for PC!!!?
Secondly, your download page has both options for MAC and PC but does not make any attempt to clarify what the consequences are if you download the MAC version as opposed to the PC version, it should be in bold letters, that's of course assuming were dealing with people who give a darn.
This is of course baring in mind that I run both MAC OSX and Windows on the same hardware, because I do this, it makes your licencing scheme look even more ridicules.

Again I would ask that someone please clarify.
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BillT

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2014, 02:42:40 am »

I am an Audio professional working at the very sharp end of the audio business and as such I have many softwares which I need to perform all of the tasks I need to achieve. Without question all of these softwares deal with licencing far better than what I have seen here.

Point number 1, none of these softwares I have purchased put any restrictions on whether I use a MAC or PC version, with the same licence, the impression I get here is that if I am dumb enough to buy a MAC version from JRiver, then don't like it because it appears to be not fit for purpose, am I supposed to buy another version for PC!!!?

In that case you should be aware of what an amazing bargain JRiver is, about a tenth of the price of that "cutting edge" stuff, and able to be used on more than one machine without paying twice.

The only software that I know of that has lets you use the same license for Mac and PC is from Adobe, and that won't let you use the license on both Mac and Windows at the same time.
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Vocalpoint

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2014, 07:04:52 am »

The impression I get here is that if I am dumb enough to buy a MAC version from JRiver, then don't like it because it appears to be not fit for purpose, am I supposed to buy another version for PC!!!?

The first impression I am getting is - why did you "buy" anything when you have a FREE 30 day trial to see if the Mac version fits your workflow or not? While I totally agree that the Mac version is currently nowhere near the level of the PC version - the free month long trial should be more than enough time for you to decide if it's for you or not.

To the concern of paying for separate licenses per platform - that's not your or my call to make. If you do not agree with the business model for MC - don't buy it - simple as that.

My other impression here is that if you are an audio professional at the "sharp end" of the business - 50 bucks should not be a problem here.

That said - maybe if you come at this in a calm collected manner - and contact JRiver in the same calm collected manner - maybe they can do something to make you whole again. But complaining on this forum is probably not scoring you any points.

VP
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JohnT

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2014, 08:30:05 am »

It would be helpful if you would provide links to the JRiver webpages that were confusing so we can improve them.

Which features are missing in the Mac version that you need?  Other than optical disc playback/ripping, the audio features in the Mac version are virtually identical to the Windows version.

If you're experiencing problems with the software, please post about it on this forum.  There are lots of very knowledgeable users and support directly from the JRiver CEO, CTO, and the developers.

As others have stated, there is a full 30 day free trial for all of our products, so you needn't buy anything until you're confident it will fulfill your needs.

Best,
John
JRiver


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John Thompson, JRiver Media Center

glynor

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 08:49:30 am »

Point number 1, none of these softwares I have purchased put any restrictions on whether I use a MAC or PC version, with the same licence, the impression I get here is that if I am dumb enough to buy a MAC version from JRiver, then don't like it because it appears to be not fit for purpose, am I supposed to buy another version for PC!!!?

There's a wide range of products that use similar, but far less flexible licensing than JRiver.  Until recently, the same was true of all Adobe products, for example.  I know, because I have separate licenses for my Mac and Windows copies of Lightroom and Creative Suite 5.5.  They only changed it with the current Creative Cloud (or maybe CS6, which I didn't get) and the newest version of Lightroom.  I don't feel like digging up a huge list of similar pro-apps, but this is certainly not uncommon (if the apps even are cross platform).

I do agree that over the past year or two, a number of pro-apps have moved to a unified licensing model (or a subscription model like AutoDesk and Adobe), but I think it is a bit forgetful to act like this is something you've never heard of before.  And, among applications in MC's price range, it is incredibly common (Goodsync, 1Password, and DVDFab are a few I can think of just off of the top of my head).

The reason is that the separate licensing is the reason there is a Mac version of MC.  Without the users who want to use it on OSX paying for the separate development, somehow, there would be no way to fund the additional development effort required to produce and improve the Mac version.  Over time, as the development progresses and the Mac version reaches parity, perhaps this pressure will lessen and changes can be made.

One thing you didn't mention, and one way that JRiver is incredibly flexible (compared to, essentially, everyone else in the software industry - at least not counting the Mac App Store) is that they allow you to use a single license on as many computers as you own.  So, if you have a few computers (of the same type) then one license covers them all.  That's a pretty big deal for many use-cases for MC, and one that is certainly NOT common at all in this space in the industry.

As others mentioned, I can understand how you feel with it being a surprise.  But, it was mostly unfortunate that you didn't take the opportunity to try it before you bought it, since that option is available (and heavily advertised).
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akira54

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2014, 06:49:39 pm »

It would be helpful if you would provide links to the JRiver webpages that were confusing so we can improve them.

Which features are missing in the Mac version that you need?

I use MC19 in a home theatre and am consequently mainly (but not exclusively) interested in its ability to show images and film/video. When I contemplated buying it I was delighted by the fact that there was a Mac version available (till then I ran XBMC on a MacMini) only to be disappointed that there was no video support at all. So I tried the Windows version for a little while, liked it and now run it on the MacMini using bootcamp. Statements along the lines of "Mac version of MC19 now available" suggest something identical/very similar to the Windows version. This is clearly not the case for users like myself who are predominantly interest in the video side of things. 
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6233638

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Re: Licencing practice
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2014, 08:41:33 pm »

I can see why someone might get the wrong idea - there's nothing immediately obvious on the home page which states that the Mac version of Media Center only supports audio at this time.
As for why someone could buy Media Center for Mac without trying it first - perhaps they have already tried MC on Windows, or been recommended it by a Windows user that doesn't know the two are completely different products right now.
 
I'm hesitant to comment at all since this is what got me banned last time, but with a lot of software I've recommended to people, I have found that they're far less likely to give it a fair chance if they're using a trial rather than having bought a license.
As soon as something happens that they don't like, or it doesn't behave in a way they expect, it's over.
 
If I tell someone to try Media Center, there's a good chance they'll come back to me and say something along the lines of "this is too complicated" and abandon it - no matter how much I protest, or offer to help solve their issue.
They don't realize that Media Center is not like iTunes where there's only one way of doing things and if you don't like it, you're out of luck.
 
If I convince someone to buy Media Center first, they're a lot more willing to spend the time required to get over that initial learning curve, at which point they're probably a JRiver customer for life, because they can see just how powerful Media Center is.
 
There's a wide range of products that use similar, but far less flexible licensing than JRiver.  Until recently, the same was true of all Adobe products, for example.
It has always been a nominal fee ($5) to switch your license from Windows to Mac or vice-versa. They void your license and mail you a new disc - I've done this a couple of times. (moving to Mac, and back to Windows now)

I know, because I have separate licenses for my Mac and Windows copies of Lightroom and Creative Suite 5.5.
Lightroom has always had a multi-platform license - since v1.

They only changed it with the current Creative Cloud (or maybe CS6, which I didn't get)
This is true of their pro applications, but not their "consumer" ones, which I believe have always been cross-platform.

I don't feel like digging up a huge list of similar pro-apps, but this is certainly not uncommon (if the apps even are cross platform).
I would say it's only common with professional applications, and quite rare today. These companies generally have feature parity across both versions, and allow you to switch without much difficulty.

The reason is that the separate licensing is the reason there is a Mac version of MC.  Without the users who want to use it on OSX paying for the separate development, somehow, there would be no way to fund the additional development effort required to produce and improve the Mac version.  Over time, as the development progresses and the Mac version reaches parity, perhaps this pressure will lessen and changes can be made.
Generally, that's not how I've seen things done. Until there is feature parity - or at least 90% of the way there, the developers normally charge a reduced price - if they charge anything at all until it's done. (often they have a "closed" beta where you can apply and get access within a week) Sales pay for the development costs after the fact, rather than during.
 
 
Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why the JRiver team does it this way - especially due to the way they handle development of each new version (building it up over time, rather than saying "here are X new features, that's v19 done") but it's not what people expect these days, so I can see why someone might hear how good "JRiver Media Center" is and simply buy a license for their Mac - without knowing that it lacks much of the functionality that the Windows version has.
 
The inflexibility of the license with regard to platforms - no way to switch, and no discounts if you already own Media Center on another platform is rare these days, and a bad deal for consumers - especially when you consider that there is no interoperability between versions. If you move to v19 on Windows, you are required to buy a v19 license for Mac and Linux too.
 
Not even Adobe does that. If an image was edited in a different version of Camera RAW than you are currently using, for example, you will still be able to view all the changes and it will be rendered correctly - you just won't be able to edit it on an older version without dropping down to that level. I know this because I stay up-to-date with Lightroom, but not Photoshop. (there is no way I will pay a subscription for access to software with Creative Cloud)
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