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JRiver Synapse -- Would you consider a $395 Audiophile DLNA Renderer?
rudyrednose:
I think it is a good idea, but you're asking the wrong forum for two reasons:
- readers are already sold to MC, skewed audience...
- few of the readers would buy, they already have JR where they think it is important to.
Find an audiophile forum to poll (and place a few links to good "audiophile" reviews you had).
Audio only, good idea.
AV, great idea ! But you need Linux video, as Windows is both too expensive AND high maintenance if unlocked.
You may even offer at profit optional turnkey solution bundles with
- Logitech K400 or similar keyboard and JRiver remote
- Harmony remotes, low and higher costs. People would pay for that integration.
I know it is a great solution, as two of our TVs are JRiver NUC driven ;D
Awesome Donkey:
The great thing is that it's Linux-based, so we can just install XBMC and use that for videos alongside JRiver for audio until videos are supported.
jmone:
I'm with JimH's concept. My NUC is for a portable MC install (rather than a full blown HTPC) that I will control either with a RC or Gizmo pending the application I've got for it at the time. I'm setting up a 16th Birthday where I'm taking the NUC coupled to a PJ and an outside screen so the teenagers can then use Gizmo to push playlists (music and video however) to it.
glynor:
--- Quote from: cncb on March 05, 2014, 08:43:20 pm ---I would consider that an "MC Library Client" rather than a "DLNA Renderer".
--- End quote ---
Yes. Jim said that. It would be both.
It would be MC, built for you, on Linux. That would certainly include both a MC Library Client and a DLNA Renderer. You can do this now, they'd just be doing it for you.
--- Quote from: cncb on March 05, 2014, 08:43:20 pm ---Even then the DSPs would mainly be important with analog audio output (since your AVR would most likely process the digital output)
--- End quote ---
I disagree. Why would your AVR do all of the processing?
I use MC for most of my processing, because it does a better job, and is far more flexible. I send my AVR PCM via HDMI. About the only thing my AVR does is Room Correction, because setting up MC's Room Correction is too complex. If it had a simpler system, I'd use that too.
I'm not sure how that plays in, technically. It is actually better than your AVR, in almost all ways, if you have an AVR.
That said... That's certainly a big part of why I'd argue that a value proposition here for many targeted consumers is not a sure thing. Its essentially selling the part of the AVR that does all of the "stuff", less the amp, HDMI switch, and DAC stages. It'd do network streaming like an AVR, do file format decoding like an AVR, etc, etc, and send out multichannel PCM. That's pretty cool, as it allows you to use whatever amp and DAC stages you want.
But the problem is that, in all but the highest end markets, you're not going to be able to buy an amp and DAC for a reasonable price in order to "recoup" the cost of the JRiver Audio Box. You're going to end up buying an AVR (like I did) and then not using any of those features and using it like a glorified HDMI switch and decoder (which is what I do, and I almost never change the HDMI switch from port one), which makes your average consumer feel like that money is wasted (even if the AVR software, interface, and often hardware asics are all terrible, as they often are).
I feel like if you want to sell at that high-end, where people will already have and want their own hand-picked discreet power amps, that they're going to want a high-quality, well-supported, integrated DAC to go with it.
Now, perhaps if JRiver had some kind of partnership with a DAC vendor (or better, a handful) where you could buy USB DAC X and plug it in and it would Just Work, they'd have something. I don't know, but I'm guessing that Linux drivers for those DACs are an even bigger crap-show than they are on Windows and OSX (which is bad), though, so I'm not sure how realistic that is of a target...
Without that, you're selling a $400 powerful pre-amp and processor, but I'm not sure there's a big enough market.
That's why I think you position it as both this, and a file-server for your home. Then, you get two potential classes of consumers. But, it would take some work to make that Storage configuration possible on a headless box, and reliable with a variety of USB storage devices on Linux.
I think it could work quite well, though. You plug it in. Plug in a USB drive (which can be anything from a WD My Book type drive, up to a big RAID-in-a-box thing with a USB port on it). It creates a SMB share and plunks it on the network, sets up MC to auto-import anything on the share, runs both the Library Server and the DLNA server, and lets you plug in a nice device via HDMI if you have one nearby. It lets you use Gizmo and JRemote out of the box (just gives you the access key via that web UI I was talking about), and if you open the port on your router, you can stream the stuff on the road too.
The storage and serving part is a substantial stumbling block for a LARGE class of potential JRiver customers. People would like to have this stuff, but setting up the storage and server aspect (leaving that PC on all the time, and maintaining it) is a big part of the issue. If JRiver could help solve that problem, even somewhat simply... You don't have to try to do the whole FreeNAS thing (though why not use ZFS if you're building it as a Linux box anyway), but it should help people like my friends who come over and see my setup and WANT it, get it, with this plus a 3TB USB drive or two, and a little Intel brick.
Again, I think Video is an even better value proposition (especially if it does all of the above too), but without it? I'm not sure it works at all, and I'm reasonably sure it doesn't work at any kind of volume without a better message, and some more thought. Of course, it depends on what scale they're trying to achieve too... So, meh?
All I can really say is... I wouldn't be interested without quality video support and Theater View, and I'm not sure I'd recommend it to my Dad either. But, the biggest reason is I've already built all of the above, but I'm a capable sysad. If it could solve more problems than just receiving and playing media stored elsewhere... Then maybe you'd have something pretty special, and worth $400-$500.
csimon:
--- Quote from: glynor on March 05, 2014, 10:12:58 pm ---That's why I think you position it as both this, and a file-server for your home. Then, you get two potential classes of consumers. But, it would take some work to make that Storage configuration possible on a headless box, and reliable with a variety of USB storage devices on Linux.
--- End quote ---
There's no point surely in duplicating what, say, Synology have done who've already got the storage thing on headless servers with an amazing and well-developed UI and a complete package-management system, sewn up. JRiver should be concentrating on the audio engineering.
Of course, you know what I'm going to say!
--- Quote ---I think it could work quite well, though. You plug it in. Plug in a USB drive (which can be anything from a WD My Book type drive, up to a big RAID-in-a-box thing with a USB port on it). It creates a SMB share and plunks it on the network, sets up MC to auto-import anything on the share, runs both the Library Server and the DLNA server, and lets you plug in a nice device via HDMI if you have one nearby. It lets you use Gizmo and JRemote out of the box (just gives you the access key via that web UI I was talking about), and if you open the port on your router, you can stream the stuff on the road too.
--- End quote ---
Doesn't this describe a NAS, with MC installed on it?
There are indeed two different appliances/markets/products here - a HTPC client, and a central database server. I think this Synapse is basically meant to be a HTPC client, something small and convenient and high quality to be used at the point of media consumption. But there are many capable devices out there already that can do this. The advantages stated:
1. Higher quality audio
2. JRiver reliability and bug fixes
3. JRiver's remote control options (for Android and iOS)
4. A device that could be repurposed if needed
Are all possible right now, with an MC server coupled with a DLNA renderer and/or DAC. The oft-requested ability to use DSP and other audio processing across DLNA, if it ever gets implemented, sort of scuppers the "higher quality audio" argument.
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