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[baniels]

I am wondering about my options for adding a 3rd analog output from my computer for a subwoofer. For my secondary office setup I am using a Behringer UCA-202 to output analog stereo to a 2 channel amp, feeding my desktop speakers. I am going to be adding a subwoofer, and would like to be able to control the crossover, and perhaps some dsp within JRiver. As it stands now, I have no 3rd analog output. The plate amp i will be using has speaker level inputs, but that doesn't give me the xover/dsp control I want.

Would it be as simple as adding a second UCA-202 and directing the subwoofer signal to one of its outputs? Without a second soundcard on hand I can't verify this possibility, and the Audio Device menu doesn't suggest that this is an option. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

Ben

[InflatableMouse]

Theoretically this is possible but a channel on a physically different card than the rest is not recommended because you'll get timing issues between these channels. They will be on different clocks which are never perfectly in sync.

[baniels]

Ok, thanks. Any suggestions on how to approach this - preferably low cost?

[mwillems]

Ok, thanks. Any suggestions on how to approach this - preferably low cost?

To do this, you'll probably need a multi-channel soundcard (there are other ways to do it involving SPDIF, but they are not likely to be cheap).  If you're able to use an internal card, you can get decent multichannel output cards for $60-$80 (like the Asus DX or the Creative equivalent).  

If you can't use an internal card, the price will go up; the cheapest usable multichannel external card I'm aware of is the Asus U7, which is about $130. Creative makes one that's a little cheaper, but I've heard mixed reviews.  That's about as cheap as it tends to get for external multichannel cards, and they get more expensive in a hurry. If you're willing to spend more than $200, Behringer makes two multichannel interfaces in the $200 to $300 range.

Unfortunately, it's hard to find "just" a three or four channel card, they all tend to be either stereo, six channel, or eight channel.

Check out these threads for more specifics:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=87573.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=86438.msg590789#msg590789
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=85141.0

[mojave]

I suggest you look at the Tascam US-366. It is $146, but there is a $50 mail in rebate right now so it ends up being $96. It is asynchronous USB, and has 4 outputs (6 including headphone). Two outputs are balanced and two are unbalanced, but that isn't an issue since one will be going to a subwoofer with gain control. The RCA outputs are channels 3&4, but you can switch the channel output in JRiver's DSP so L/R are on 3&4 and the subwoofer is on channel 1.

I have the US-366 and use it primarily for measuring. It is about the only device out there that can serve as a mic preamp, ADC, and has digital AES output for my Lynx card.

If you haven't seen it yet, dlbeck at AVS announced a grand opening of his theater in Altoona, IA on June 28. Maybe I'll see you there. He will have 15 channels of output all controlled by JRiver.

[baniels]

That's a nice find, Mojave. I think i'll grab one. I'll put that date on my calendar - I would love to make it to that event.

[baniels]

Mojave,

I have the US-366 in hand. Thanks again for the suggestion.

I am not seeing anywhere in JRiver / DSP settings that I can specify where the 3 channels are directed. I am using the ASIO driver.

This is what I see in the DSP window.

[mwillems]

Mojave,

I have the US-366 in hand. Thanks again for the suggestion.

I am not seeing anywhere in JRiver / DSP settings that I can specify where the 3 channels are directed. I am using the ASIO driver.

This is what I see in the DSP window.

You have several options in the parametric equalizer module (in the menu table on the left) that could be used to address the channel routing.  "Order channels" is probably the easiest way to do it.  If you want the sub to come out of the first channel output and the left and right to come out of outputs 3 and 4, you'd want to put sub first, and then L and R 3rd and 4th.

If that doesn't work correctly for you, you can also use the copy function to re-route the channels, but that may have undesirable interaction with room correction (depending on how you have it set up).

[mojave]

If you set it to 2.1 in Output Format, then you will get this:

1 - Left
2 - Right
3 - Subwoofer

If you set it to 5.1 in Output Format, the you will get this:
1 - Left
2 - Right
3 - Silent
4 - Subwoofer
5 - Silent
6 - Silent

I realized this weekend that in the US-366 control panel you can quickly switch whether outputs 1-2 are "computer 1-2" or "computer 3-4". The same for outputs 3-4. I is quicker just to change this in the control panel and then you won't have to route anything in JRiver. Press the Mixer Panel button on the Tascam to quickly bring up the control panel. That feature alone is pretty cool. 

You have the Subwoofer selected in Output Format. This copies the left and right channels to the subwoofer and adds a low pass filter. The mains remain full range. If you use Room Correction and under the bass management you select "move bass to subwoofer" it will then add a high pass filter on the mains. You can also just set the subwoofer in Output Format to "Silent" and use Room Correction for all routing to the subwoofer.

[mwillems]

If you set it to 2.1 in Output Format, then you will get this:

1 - Left
2 - Right
3 - Subwoofer

If you set it to 5.1 in Output Format, the you will get this:
1 - Left
2 - Right
3 - Silent
4 - Subwoofer
5 - Silent
6 - Silent

Actually 2.1 gives you three blank channels as well. If you have 2.1 set, JRiver will show the output format as 6 channels. Matt explained it once by noting that almost no devices support three channel output, so they had to "pad it up."  My recollection is that, even in 2.1, the sub is on output 4, not on 3, but I can't test that right now. 

You're definitely right that making the switch in the TASCAM control panel is probably easier than ordering channels regardless, and it should be relatively easy to figure out which of the two outputs the sub is using.

[baniels]

Thanks for the help, guys. I think I have it setup - at least as best as I can tell from the mixing window, as I'm working in silence.

[baniels]

All is good. Now I must get my measurement gear back from my friend.

It will take a little getting used to using the program's volume control and not reaching for the knob on my old Kenwood. Thanks again for the help.