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[Skullmonkee]

Hi

As someone who has spent their fair share of time using various home theater software i've recently installed JRiver trial and am currently impressed.  Until recently i've been using MediaBrowser, in conjunction with Windows Media Center, but became frustrated at the lack of more advanced features i require. 

My queries are the following:

Other programs i have used create a .xml file for storing metadata.  I know that JRiver can be configured to create JRsidecar.xml files, however, i've noticed that even without creating these files JRiver is able to display information about TV series and Movies.  I am at a loss to explain this and was hoping that someone could provide a simple answer as to how JRiver is displaying this information.

Additionally, in light of the above, what is the benefit of using JRsidecare.xml files, other than being able to transport metadata to a computer without internet/network access?

Any help would be much appreciated.

[raym]

MC can store video tags to sidecar files but this is an optional feature. All metadata for imported files are saved to MC's internal library and is not dependant on these sidecar files.

One great use for sidecars (which is how I use them), is to allow MC to read (and store) tags on import for TV files generated by my stand alone PVR software.

[Skullmonkee]

Thanks for the reply Ray.  However im unsure what you mean by:

All metadata for imported files are saved to MC's internal library and is not dependant on these sidecar files

Could you please elaborate on this?  From what i gather you are saying that the meta data, rather than being stored in a .xml, is stored in the JRiver program.  Is this true?  If so, is the data accessible in any way?

 Finally, what does this mean for other computers on the home network which access the Main library?

[connersw]

From what i gather you are saying that the meta data, rather than being stored in a .xml, is stored in the JRiver program.  Is this true?

Not rather than, but in addition to.  This is true for all Files, not just Video files that don't support tagging.  In MC, the "Library" refers to a database that stores all the metadata for your Files as well as the structure of your views and your settings.  See:  http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Library

If so, is the data accessible in any way?

Yes.  If the Files support the Tags, and you have Tools -> Options -> General -> Importing & Tagging -> Update tags when file info changes checked, then the metadata is also written to the Tags.  That way it can be accessed by programs outside of MC.   Likewise for Video files that do not support tagging, if you have Tools -> Options -> General -> Importing & Tagging -> Store tags in external sidecar files turned on for Videos, it will also save the metadata to the Sidecare File, in addition to saving it in the Library.

Finally, what does this mean for other computers on the home network which access the Main library?

When you access the Main Library, MC is pulling the metadata from the Library (ie the database).

[Skullmonkee]

Thanks a lot for the reply, Conner.  You actually helped me a lot.

When you access the Main Library, MC is pulling the metadata from the Library (ie the database).

So if JRsidecare files exist, which takes precident, the .xml files or the information stored in the library?  Are there any internal functions to stop these two sources from containing conflicting information?

Yes.  If the Files support the Tags, and you have Tools -> Options -> General -> Importing & Tagging -> Update tags when file info changes checked, then the metadata is also written to the Tags.  That way it can be accessed by programs outside of MC.   Likewise for Video files that do not support tagging, if you have Tools -> Options -> General -> Importing & Tagging -> Store tags in external sidecar files turned on for Videos, it will also save the metadata to the Sidecare File, in addition to saving it in the Library.

When you say that a file supports tags, does this mean that the information is somehow embedded in the file itself?  How can i tell if a video supports this? 

Finally, i am unable to get the thumbnail function to work for TV show episodes.  MC is pulling all the correct information, however it fails to generate an episode thumbnail no matter what i do.  I have "build thumbnails" checked.  Does anyone have any suggestions for getting this to work properly?

[connersw]

So if JRsidecare files exist, which takes precident, the .xml files or the information stored in the library?  Are there any internal functions to stop these two sources from containing conflicting information?

The Library.  There is no single/hard poka-yoke to prevent conflicts; however, the default Options should keep them in sync.  Specifically, the ones I mentioned earlier.  See:  http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Sync_the_database_and_tags

When you say that a file supports tags, does this mean that the information is somehow embedded in the file itself?  How can i tell if a video supports this? 

Yes, embedded.  It may help if you familiarized yourself with the distinction between Fields in MC and Tags:  http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tags.  MC allows an almost limitless amount of customization regarding what metadata you would like associated with your Files by using Field.  While the terms are often used interchangeably, not all of these Fields, especially User created Custom Fields, are supported by different Tag standards. 

There is no way, that I know of, within MC to tell which Field is supported as a Tag by what File Type.  Unfortunately, there is not one Tag standard that rules across all File Types.  You would have to look up what Tags your File Type supports.  This is true for all Media File Types, not just Video. 


Please start a new thread regarding your Thumbnail issue to avoid thread-drift.  It will be easier to help troubleshoot if you describe in detail the steps you are taking and what is happening, rather than just "it fails no matter what I do."  A screen-shot often goes a long way.

[glynor]

I'd been meaning to chime in on this, but I'd been busy.

The Library (the database) is The Truth in MC.  The Library is used for all internal processes that access (search, browse, view, etc) file metadata of all types.  MC never accesses in-file metadata (including sidecar files) directly except when importing the files.  For all other operations, the database is used.  This is why MC is fast.

The sidecar files are primarily for:

* Interchange with other external applications.
* Importing metadata into other copies of MC (or other Libraries in the same copy of MC).

They are, essentially, in-file tags for file types for which MC cannot actually tag them inside the file (usually because no good standard like ID3 exists for how to store and name the metadata).

You CAN have MC update the Library if the sidecar files change automatically via the Auto-Import mechanism, but this would generally be pretty rare and in specialized circumstances.

[Skullmonkee]

Appreciate the replies guys.

The Library.  There is no single/hard poka-yoke to prevent conflicts; however, the default Options should keep them in sync.  Specifically, the ones I mentioned earlier.  See:  http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Sync_the_database_and_tags

Thanks for this, Connor. And also for the link.

Additionally, ive taken a look at the info about tags and now understand how they work.  Nearly all of my files are .mkv.

The Library (the database) is The Truth in MC.  The Library is used for all internal processes that access (search, browse, view, etc) file metadata of all types.  MC never accesses in-file metadata (including sidecar files) directly except when importing the files.  For all other operations, the database is used.  This is why MC is fast.

This makes perfect sense to me.  Thanks for the succinct answer.  Am i correct to infer that upon importing a file, MC will either pull info (metadata) from the JRsidecar files, or the inbuilt fetching methods?  Once this information is obtained, what we see on the screen (Theater View for example) is information being pulled only from The Library (i.e. as far as MC is concerned, JRsidecare files and embedded tags are then superfluous)?  What about the Online Media Slideshow that shows in Theater View?

Thanks guys (Connor i will do as you advise and start an additional thread regarding the thumbnail issue).

[connersw]

Yes, on import metadata is pulled from already written tags, JRiver sidecar files, MyMovies xml files, and then any NFO file.  Carnac is used to populate any empty fields it can.  http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Carnac  If Get movie & TV info is enabled, MC will also pull additional metadata from online resources like TMDB and TVDB.

Yes, only the Library.  I think this has been restated at least 3-times already.

The Images shown in Theater View Online Media Slideshow are pulled from online resources.  You can control it (and see where they are coming from) by going to Tools -> Options -> Theater View -> Appearance -> Theme -> Online Media Slideshow.  They are based on the Field Properties that are saved in...guess where?...THE Library.