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[wrogers814]

Hello:

I 'm having a problem that's tough to describe let alone solve. I am in the process of importing data on my jazz collection into JRiver. The collection is organized on my network HD in folders by Artist's name (e.g. 180 albums with various Miles Davis' groupings and compilations under the folder title of "MILES").

To make things fit neatly into groups by artist, I have had to do some editing of many of the  the "artist" tag. For example, an album with the artist designation as "Miles Davis & Sonny Rollins" would be edited to just "Miles Davis" so it would be included in the "Miles Davis" artist group rather than separately as "Miles Davis and Sonny Rollins".  

I have also found it necessary to edit the "Album" tag, especially on multi disk compilations and this is where my real problem happened. In attempting to edit an album title, I accidentally gave one of my artists group the name or title of an album. For example, I gave my "Thelonious Monk" group the album name "African Village"; now all of the albums in that group are named "African Village". Even worse "African Village" has been applied to other groups.

Things seem to work when I import individual albums from within each artist folder on my hard drive, but this is no solution as I have over 2000 albums to import.

I have tried everything to fix this pro0problem including cleaning the library uninstalling JRiver 18, and upgrading to JRiver 19. I really don't have an understanding of the problem and my search of the forum has yielded little in the way of clues much less a solution.

 What I want to be able to do is to clean out the library database and start over again.

HELP!!

[6233638]

I think you have written these changes to the file tags, so resetting Media Center's library will not do anything.
 
However, if your files are neatly organized on disk, you can use Tools → Library Tools → Fill Properties From Filename
 
If your folder scheme is:
C:\Music\Thelonious Monk\<Album Name>\
 
You would enter:
Template > Directories:
 
C:\Music\[Album Artist]\[Album]\
 
And that would fill out both the Album Artist, and Album tags based on the file path.
 
You can right-click in the entry box to select from a list of available fields.
I would suggest running this on a few albums rather than all of them, to begin with.

[Arindelle]

Going one step further than what 623... told you, one of the great things in JRiver is the ability to create expression fields that will copy information, but list it diferrently. Don't worry I'll get to your probleme further down

For example. I'll take an album from my collection Stan Meets Chet

I have two fields the normal Artist and Artists (notice the plural). Filing in the artists field from the tag window you can choose via a list which will automatically fill in the "artist" field. You could do that in reverse too by using the separator ";" between the two or more artists. like this ... Stan Getz; Chet Baker

So in my example The Album artist is Stan Getz & Chet Baker; the artist field would be Stan Getz; Chet Baker. Without this you would either be creating a new artist field called Stan Getz & Chet Baker (ok for album artist but not when individually filtering by artist) or you could even  get a Various Artist type album. Personally I use Albumartist, and not Albumartist (auto), but regardless, the only thing to note is in lists or views sorted normally by album artist then album and maybe date, in this example it would sort under S for Stan and not C for Chet.

If you are OCD like me, I also fill out the soloist field to include all the people playing on main albums (except maybe BIg Band records ).

So following that example, if you searched for any artist you would pull up his main albums, albums where he is featured, and albums where he plays but is credited as a sideman.

If you make sure that important fields (metadata) are written to the file (Files and folders => manage library fields), it will not only be on your backup outside of JRiver, but will also permit you to use a Library tool to copy that meta data form the files to the library (Update Library from Tags click write to file when possible). So all your hard work setting up your collection has multiple ways to restore itself.

The structure of the directories on HDs are IMO is secondary as you can always find the physical file using the locate external command. whether you decide to rip to Chet Baker or Stan Getz or Stan Getz & Chuck Baker is up to you. Consistency is good though .  Forget clicking on directories to play, but do as you like of course.

SO to get back to your issue at hand, and there are many ways to do this but I would first import everything to at least sort out any album album artist mess following along the lines of what 6233638 told you. Then I would rectify any tagging errors making sure that the critical tag fields write to the disk as explained above (probably better to remove what you have imported already of course).

Set-up autoimport correctly using mapped or UNC paths but simplified like 623 mention C:\Music\Thelonious Monk\<Album Name>\ or if you have to C:\Music\Jazz\Thelonious Monk\<Album Name>\ -- multiple disk could look like this C:\Music\Thelonious Monk\<Album Name>\cd2\

In auto import you can just set C:\Music\ even if you have things like this C:\Music\#2-Jazz + C:\Music\#1-Classical C:\Music\#3-Various Artists.

Now if you have really messed up your directories (or want to make them more coherent with ripping)? I'd suggest an external program =>
TagScanner which will allow you to make all sorts of changes and its free.  If you do this you will have to reimport using autoimport again. This program will also make it easier to create your "Miles" Directory. This can also be done internally in JRiver by the file rename command but with 2000 cds that would be painful (ok for just miles, but ....). In the external program you can create a mask which I think would be more flexible. When adding music later you can use the Move Rename Copy command in JRiver and set up presets.

Please back up your library at each step and your music before starting just in case .... hope this helps

[wrogers814]

Thank you for a great response. I agree totally with you on the need to learn and use the expression language and will begin that process today

Again thanks

[Listener]

wrogers814, I suggest that you slow down and learn more about how MC works before doing anything drastic.

As others have suggested, the changes you made to tags have probably been written to the music files.  Both the MC library and the tags in the music files will have the changes you made incorrectly.  However, you may be able to restore the library from a library backup and then update your music files from the library.  (A library backup contains information needed to restore the MC database and other files MC uses.  It does not contain the contents of your music files.)  More in a moment.

Before you make any changes, browse in your library to understand the state of the tags now.  Are any music files missing?  Are any database fields other than Artist and Album affected?  Try to understand what happened before you start trying to fix the problem.

Once you understand what state the library and the music files are in, you can try a simple way to get your library and music files back to the original state.

1. You might make a fresh (additional) backup of the MC library files and the music files themselves.  Don't write over a previous backup if you have one.

2. If your library does not contain all your files import them again.

3. Make sure that auto-import is not enabled. (Tools/Import/Configure auto-import)  make a paper list of the folders listed under "Folders".  remove them from the list IN MC for now.

4. Choose the Restore library command (File/Library/Restore Library) and click on the button labeled "Browse".  You should see a list of .zip files with the name of the library and the date of the library backup.  Choose one from just before you starting making the changes that were incorrect.

5. Be sure that the checkbox titled "Resore library and playlists is checked.  Uncheck the "settings" checkbox.

6. Click the "OK" button.

MC will restore the contents of the the library to its state at the time of the backup.  The tag values in the files still need to be fixed.

7. Choose a view like "Audio" that lets you see all music files.  Select one or a few of those files for which you think you made a change in error. (You won't be able to see the change in the library but you seem to know some examples such as "Miles Davis & Sonny Rollins")

8.  Right click on one of the selected files and choose "Library Tools" and then "Update Tags (from Library)"

9. Select one of the files you just updated.  If the Tag Window is not visible, use the Edit/Tag command to make it visible.  At the top of the tag window, Click on the line  just below the word "Tag".  This will show a window libeled "MP3" or "Flac" or some other file format name.  The window will show information about the file that is selected including the tag values actually in the file.  You should see  that the tag value now matches the database field value in the MC library.

10. If the change to one or a few files went as expected, you can repeat the process for a number of files.

11. When you have Updated Tags (from library) for all the files or at least those that you feel to be in error, you can restore the auto-import list of folders to its previous state.


I've given you a detailed step-by-step procedure.  If you feel that there are too many steps, you are on your own.

This process depends on the presence of a MC library backup from before you made the erronous changes.  If you upgraded to a new version of MC, you may have to look in a different location for your old backups.  If you erased your old backups when you uninstalled and re-installed MC, this method won't work.  One thing to note:  All of the changes you have made since the backup will be lost and you will have to enter them again.

Go slow and be sure you understand what you are about to do before you make a change that might cause damage.

[wrogers814]

Listener:

Really great advice- every word. The Windows GUI, mouse, and now touch screens has certainly made me careless, impatient and haphazard. I  now intend to take the time to learn this wonderful application well.

I do have a number of backups from JRiver 18 (the 2 backups I have for JR19 I am certain contain the error I am concerned with). My plan is to reinstall JR18 and follow the steps you outline to restore  the library to a pre error state.

A couple of clarifying questions. I don't understand what you mean by "browse" the database fields, or more correctly I don't know how to access the database fields. I have click on "Tag" to view and edit that structure, but little else.

I am somewhat unclear about what is meant by "music files" . I assume you don't mean the actual MP3,or Flac file on my HD. Do you mean the listing  in the library screen where the album cover appears at the top and a listing of the songs at the bottom?

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide me this very helpful information.

[6233638]

You should be able to restore an MC18 library to MC19 for what it's worth.

[Arindelle]

Listener:

Really great advice- every word.

I do have a number of backups from JRiver 18 (the 2 backups I have for JR19 I am certain contain the error I am concerned with). My plan is to reinstall JR18 and follow the steps you outline to restore  the library to a pre error state.

Yes this is a great step-by-step, well done Listener.  I thought you were in the process of importing, and your tags were not in the Library yet. By all means try to recover your metadata from 18.

A couple of clarifying questions. I don't understand what you mean by "browse" the database fields, or more correctly I don't know how to access the database fields. I have click on "Tag" to view and edit that structure, but little else.

Go Options=>Manage Libary Fields and you will see something like this


You can filter all the out-of-the-box fields by media type (audio, video etc). What I think is important, is also to verify that important fields to you are actually written to the actually music (physical) files. You can, if needed, post this meta data back to the Library or post the Library metadata back to the files. Most are pre-set correctly but not all (at least for me) - see screen shot for the box to check/verify.

Listener of course is right, to jump in to fast with expression. However what I was referring to is a very simple little trick and if you know about it before you spend time organizing a large collection (2000 jazz albums you probably have many others as well) and is especially valuable IMO for Jazz and perhaps Classical. And might save a bunch of time later. The pop up window shows the expression and my "custom" field ... once you have all this sorted (and following Listener's advice) and you have a consistent method for organizing your HDs directories, and not before ) I'll post screen shots and post the code so you can copy paste without understanding the expression if this interests you of course -- you can always remove this "custom" field later which will not affect the meta data in the key field.

I am somewhat unclear about what is meant by "music files" . I assume you don't mean the actual MP3,or Flac file on my HD. Do you mean the listing  in the library screen where the album cover appears at the top and a listing of the songs at the bottom?

I should let Listener answer that, but I'm sure he is talking about the physical files on your hard drives. You can use a "File" view in MC to visualize these individually. And as I said too, BACK these up always before any significant changes are made to them (an incremental backup set will work too). Make a separate backup manually of the library -- MC will make an auto back up, but ... File=>Library=>Backup is your friend before each step.

One last thing, which is my opinion, but friends of mine that have gotten into JRiver still do all kinds of "organization" on their hard drives themselves. Keep it simple, and for a directory structure I would recommend that the they correspond to the metadata by ALBUMARTIST/ALBUM/files  or ALBUMARTIST/ALBUM/CD1/files (for cds with multiple disks). While ripping, these can be setup automatically.

For true compilations use Various Artist or the tag you prefer/ALBUM/files with CD1, 2 optional. So don't use MILES but Miles Davis. I admit I have a Classical directory because the Cds are not tagged in the same way, and a Soundtrack Directory. In this way you can build back either Library to HD or HD to Library in case catastrophe strikes. Long path names can become problematic (especially for classical music).

Anyway take with a grain of salt of course, there are many ways to do this. Whatever you decide, be consistent and backup often

[Listener]

My comments are in bold face.

Listener:

Really great advice- every word.

Thanks.

I do have a number of backups from JRiver 18 (the 2 backups I have for JR19 I am certain contain the error I am concerned with). My plan is to reinstall JR18 and follow the steps you outline to restore  the library to a pre error state.

6233638 is right.  You can restore in MC 19 using a library backup made in MC18.

In general, be very slow to uninstall MC and reinstall it.  That step won't fix some things and you may make things worse.

A couple of clarifying questions. I don't understand what you mean by "browse" the database fields, or more correctly I don't know how to access the database fields. I have click on "Tag" to view and edit that structure, but little else.

Browse = use MC to look for music files with tag values you select.  For example, you might use the "Artist" view to look for Artist names that are in error.  In that view, the artist name will be under a cover art picture of one album by that artist. Then you might use the "Albums" view to look for album names that are in error.  The album name will be under the cover art image for that album.

When you import music files, MC uses tag values in the music files to fill out a database entry for each file.  If the music file doesn't contain tag values, MC can use the folder and file name for a music file to build the database entry.  Once MC has imported a music file, it will use the information in the database entry rather than going back to the music file. 

First we want to restore the database fields to the pre-error state and then we want to store those correct values in the tags in the music files.  We often use the words database fields and tags loosely but in this case, the recovery process depends on undersdtanding and using the difference between database fields and tags in music files.

I am somewhat unclear about what is meant by "music files" . I assume you don't mean the actual MP3,or Flac file on my HD.

I do mean the actual MP3 or Flac files. Part of the database entry created when you import a music file is the path name for the file.  MC will use this file name when it plays the file or when it needs to perform some other action such as "Update Tags (from Library)".

Do you mean the listing  in the library screen where the album cover appears at the top and a listing of the songs at the bottom?

The list of "songs" has one line for each database entry matching the criteria you have selected.  Each column corresponds to a database field. (You can specify which fields you want displayed.)

Thanks so much for taking the time to provide me this very helpful information.

You are welcome.

[wrogers814]

623..., Arindelle, Listener, all of you have been immensely helpful to me. I was able to restore my library to a pre error state. But, more importantly, I now know much more about what I need to know and do to correctly construct my libraries. It is now apparent to me that careful planning as well as a fair amount of understanding of how JRriver organizes and processes media is of great importance.

I not only have thousands of jazz titles. I also have tons of classical, soul/rock/r&b, and hundreds of swing era 78s I inherited from my grandparents and which I am digitizing. Add to this hundreds of movies and you can grasp the scope of my cataloging project.

I am going to take the advice you all have given me to go slow with an incremental approach. You will definitely see a lot of chirping from me on this forum going forward. I just hope that I will soon be able to contribute something.

Again thanks

[Listener]

When you get to classical music and other genres for which both Composer and performer are important, you should consider creating a view that is appropriate for such music.  Here is a screenshot of a view I use for classical music



Note that this view displays lists of tags at the top rather than displaying cover art with one kind of tag at a time.  I find this to be well suited to a large library of classical music. (It is a "Panes" view as opposed to a category view.)

Here is a step by step walk-thru on creating or modifying a view for classical music.

http://naturelover.smugmug.com/Other/JRiver-defining-a-classical/42193047_3H5c7F

I like swing and big band music too.  And Broadway showtunes and musicals.

Before you plunge in ripping and tagging a large amount of music, experiment with a small set of CDs.  Perhaps 30-100.  Try tagging things and using views to browse your collection.  After you understand more, you can make better decisions on how to tag and view your files to meet your needs.  Then you are ready to rip and import your whole collection.  Remember, do it once and do it right.  Make backups of the music files and the MC library and you won't ever have to do it again.

[wrogers814]

Listerner:

Thanks for the great suggestion, which I will also apply to my jazz collection. I have been away for a couple of days, but I have made some progress 9and some issues) which I will post when I complete editing of some screenshots.