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[6233638]

NOTE from glynor:  I split this from the Video Feedback thread on the Mac board, because I'd posted something there that impacts the Windows version too, and isn't specific to video.  My summary (which replicates, but fixes, my original report) is below.

* There's new visual "noise" on the scrub bar part of the Display View mouse UI

That's nothing new, it's been there at least since MC19 on the PC, probably earlier.
I think I saw this when I was trying to skin MC18 too, but I haven't gone back to check.
There are a lot of small bugs like this with the skinning engine. It seems to be a low priority.
 
If I edit the contrast on my current skin, it becomes obvious.

[glynor]

That's nothing new, it's been there at least since MC19 on the PC, probably earlier.

I don't see it on any of my Windows machines.  If it was on OSX before, I never noticed it.

Not sure what your PNG is showing.  Doesn't look like the same thing at all.  These are pretty blatantly obvious white dots, that look like bleed on the bottom edge (perhaps poorly masked) of the scrub bar itself.  They're only along the bottom edge.  Maybe slightly subtle, but not by much.

Look at my screenshots again.  I'll roll back to an earlier build later.

[6233638]

I don't see it on any of my Windows machines.  If it was on OSX before, I never noticed it.

Not sure what your PNG is showing.  Doesn't look like the same thing at all.  These are pretty blatantly obvious white dots.  Maybe slightly subtle, but not by much.

You're right, Noire in 20.0.30 doesn't seem to be affected by this any more.
I can assure you that it was there at one point.
 
The Player Bar Display is still affected on Windows in 20.0.30
Again, I increased the contrast to make things more obvious.

[glynor]

You're right.

It does also show on MC 20.0.30 on Windows, including the regular Standard View player bar.  In fact, I don't see it on my Mac's Standard View Player bar in 20.0.29, but I do see it in the Display View bar.  So, perhaps it is "worse" in the new Display View bar on OSX.

Or, I was just looking at it closely.

However... I don't know if you're talking about the same thing.  I can't see it in your screenshot above, even if I zoom way in (which is odd since you said you modified it to make it more obvious).  Perhaps we're just seeing the same thing reflected in different ways with different skins, though.

In any case, it doesn't belong in this thread then.

[glynor]

I moved this from the Mac board, because it appears to impact both the Windows and OSX versions of MC.  There's white visual "noise" on the scrub bar part of the Display View mouse UI:



Zoomed in:



Those screenshots are from the OSX version, where it seems to only happen on the Display View control bar.  In Standard View I can't see it (though it could just be more subtle).

I do see it in both Standard View and Display View on the Windows version of MC, however.  Here's a screenshot from Windows:



Zoomed:

[6233638]

However... I don't know if you're talking about the same thing.  I can't see it in your screenshot above, even if I zoom way in (which is odd since you said you modified it to make it more obvious).

In that screenshot (the first one) it's showing as full height vertical bars, rather than just small dots at the bottom.

[glynor]

Yeah.  I thought of that.  Sorry.  Mine are nowhere near as regular as yours though.  They look like noise.

I don't see it at all in the second screenshot you posted either.

[glynor]

I see what looks like extremely faint segments in your second screenshot, but only if I zoom way in (certainly not visible under normal circumstances), on that second one.  But none of the white dots, and none of the corruption I'm talking about.

I just checked more closely on the Standard View scrub bar, and I'm not seeing it there on OSX.  Just Display View there.  But I do see it on both on Windows.

[glynor]

Here's an example showing the difference between the Scrub Bar in Display View and Standard View on OSX:

Display View at 400% (dots):



Standard View at 400% (no dots):

[glynor]

Sometimes I have way more of them than others.  I thought at first it might be transparency or something, which would explain why I don't see it in some cases, but it appears to move with the player even when dragged around over wildly changing backgrounds.

[6233638]

I don't see it at all in the second screenshot you posted either.

Second shot demonstrates the problem in the PlayerBar_Display graphic, not the seek bar.
 
It's visible in your shots too, I just enhanced the contrast to make it easier to see. (many displays make it difficult to distinguish between brighter shades)

[glynor]

Second shot demonstrates the problem in the PlayerBar_Display graphic, not the seek bar.
 
It's visible in your shots too, I just enhanced the contrast to make it easier to see. (many displays make it difficult to distinguish between brighter shades)

Yeah.  That's not I'm not convinced that is the same thing, and I'm not convinced it is an issue.

Not all visual noise is problematic, if it isn't visible on a typical display (or is so subtle that it takes "the right kind of eyes" to see it).  Mine here are well calibrated, professional IPS displays, and I can't see the noise you highlighted at all on my display.  Looks like a dithering pattern from the slight gradient on the white display area.

[6233638]

There is no gradient in the display area, it's a solid color if you check PlayerBar_Display.png
 
I'm surprised you're finding it difficult to see on a calibrated IPS monitor. It's rather obvious here.
I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it on an uncalibrated screen though, since they tend to compress details near white.
 
Is it a matte display by any chance? They tend to have some amount of "speckle" to the screen which can make things like that difficult to see.
 
Could also be lower DPI too, I suppose. That has a tendency to mask small things like this too. If each pixel has a large black border around it, it's difficult to see subtle changes in color from one to the next.

[glynor]

There is no gradient in the display area, it's a solid color if you check PlayerBar_Display.png

Okay.  I didn't check.  I was just looking at the dithering pattern in your modified screenshot.

Is it a matte display by any chance?

Of course it is, I'm not an animal.  

Its an ASUS PA246Q P-IPS.  I have two of them, and they match.  It's been a while (probably 10 months) since they were calibrated, and I didn't go crazy calibrating them, but it was done and they look good enough for video editing work.  I don't know that I'd try to do print-matching on them, but they're good.  They also match my older Samsung 244T reasonably well (which is a S-PVA).

If you can take a screenshot of it non-modified and show it, I guess.  But I don't see it at all here.  It could be an artifact that is amplified by retina scaling, certainly, but whether that's MC's problem or an OSX/Harware bug is anyone's guess.

[6233638]

I'm seeing it quite clearly in this one of yours. It shows as dithering/banding in what should be a flat color.
I suspect it's the matte surface which is making it difficult to see.

[glynor]

If you see it in my screenshot without zooming in, then I'm sure your monitor isn't showing it accurately for some reason (or something else is happening).  I assume you have a Macbook Retina of some variety?

Here is the raw screencapture in TIFF (just cropped vertically, otherwise unaltered).  The one I posted before is web-optimized, and can't be used to judge color accuracy.

Look at the color values.  MC's display engine does seem to be applying some kind of dithering pattern (probably a compression algorithm), but the color values are all extremely close to one another across the gray pixels.  They vary no more than 232, 232, 232 - 235, 235, 235* and they are still all perfectly neutral (almost white) gray.

Zoom way in and look.  Here it is at 2800% (this is, as are the zooms above, a nearest neighbor resample):



Sorry.  If you're seeing more than the barest of color variations there, I can quite easily check it by numbers, and something is whacked on your monitor, not mine.  Check it yourself.

* EDIT: The source is solid 235, 235, 235.  That absolutely looks like MC is compressing images before displaying them.  But it is pretty light compression, and should not be visible at 100%.  At 300%, maybe, if I squint a little, I can see it on mine.

[glynor]

In any case, it has nothing to do with the white dots, which are obvious at normal scaling, and do not show at all in certain cases (Standard View on OSX, for example).

[Matt]

I do see it in both Standard View and Display View on the Windows version of MC, however.  Here's a screenshot from Windows:



Zoomed:

Wow, this is a mysterious one.

We'll have it fixed next build by disabling bicubic rendering for that element, but I have no idea why that's necessary.  Something must be wrong deep in our bicubic code...