Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[georgev]

I hope this topic is specific enough.

I recently traded in my old system and upgraded to a P3 1ghz 256MB, SB Live 5.1 OEM, LG 48X CDRom, LG CDRW 16-10-40, 40GB HD and nVidia Geoforce2 400MX 64MB video card.  I run Win98SE.  

What I'm planning to do is record my collection of ~200 LPs and ~150 CDs onto my computer and use it to control playback thru our 2 stereo systems.  

I have enough programming experience to design a database to organize my collection and be able to run queries on it which could output reports (playlists) to an audio player.

It would be nice if there was a player out there with an API which I could access programatically but this is not essential as I have a program WinBatch in which can I can usually code something to push another program's buttons for me.

My problem is I don't know where to start with the recording process.  I haven't paid much attention to the audio/multimedia explosion so until now the only type of audio files I was aware of were midi, wav and mp3.  A little bit of surfing has made it clear to me that at this point I don't even know enough to ask the right questions, so I have to approach this audio thing from the perspective of a jazz lover from way back.

While I have a fairly good ear and appreciate good sound in the end its the music that matters.  No CDs are not as warm or faithful as LPs but then in general they don't have hissy fits either which some of my well cared for LPs have had from the git-go, so what I would like is to get the message of the music onto my computer and back out to my stereo system with as little loss as is practical (read $$$/effort in, noticeable quality out).  I'm already contemplating a Stereo Link amplifier and a 2nd hard drive to hold my music but my budget won't allow me to go much beyond this.

Any suggestions?

1. Links to follow up/books to read.  I confused about bit rate and sound quality. Most of what I've read seems to indicate that a bit rate of 128 will give CD quality, so why would I rip a CD using a higher bit rate?

2. Tips and tricks for recording once I've settled on the format.

3. HD capacity.  I know this will vary with the format/quality but I'm guessing 1Gb/10 albums so adding 60 or 80 GB harddrive should handle my projected music needs (500-600 albums).

4. If the Stereo Link system is not just hype then I am concerned about recording thru my soundcard.  If latent noise from soundcards is a factor for output, would it not also be a factor for input.

Thanks

[Scronch]

I'll answer what I can...

A 128 kpbs MP3 isn't even close to CD quality.  But many people can't tell the difference unless you switch back and forth between that and a higher bitrate copy.  Then again, some people claim to have dog's ears, and can hear the quality degradation immediately (except when they join JimH in the snow to howl at the moon).

Buy a huge 2nd hard drive.  Use APE to encode the music you have on CD.  For the LP's, it's your call.  I'll let someone else who has messed with LP's comment on the format to use.  I guess if it was me, I'd either bite the bullet and go APE (pun intended) or use MP3 at about 192 or 256 kbps.  Then again, if you're ears are old and beat up a little, 160 kbps MP3's may be fine for everything.  But if I were going to go through all that work, I'd use APE.

APE is a lossless compression standard, meaning it will capture everything on your CD and store it in about half the space required by Wave files.  You should also read about APL files.  Search this forum (look at the Search link at the top).  btw, APE is Matt's: http://www.monkeysaudio.com (hey guys, why aren't links working on this forum tonight?)

You should also decide on a normalization scheme before you go through all that work.  Search this forum and follow the links.

You won't need to design your own database and issue your own queries--MJ does that for you.  Let them do the work, and you enjoy the music!

Please tell me you're not going through all this for country music.  If so, buy an old Commodore 64, and encode at 1 kbps.  You won't notice any difference from the originals.

Scronch

[Poison Dan]

Basically, I agree with everything Scronch said (yes, even the part about country music ;-) ). I just want to add a few things:

Use EAC for ripping your CDs. It will be slower than with other rippers (e.g. MJ8 ;-) ), but if it's properly configured, you can be sure that the resulting audio files are 100% correct and free of audio glitches. An excellent guide to EAC is available on http://www.ping.be/satcp/eac00.htm

If, at any point, you would like to re-create an audio CD from your encoded files, and be sure that it is identical to the source, including pregaps, you could use APL files. This way, the entire CD will be encoded as one large APE file, while the APL files contain links to the individual tracks. The APL files can also contain lots of extended information like conver art, lyrics etc.

Maybe somebody on this board could direct you to a website where the usage of APE files is explained more thoroughly. Basically, I learned everything about it while experimenting. If you want more information about this, you could also contact me at dsuls [at] yahoo.com

HTH

[Cmagic]

Scronch is right, if you encode your collection using APE you can't be wrong but you'll need HDD space.
As a rule of thumb considering that APE will fit roughly 3 albums in a gigabyte, you 'll need approx.
120 GB of HDD space for your 200 LP   150 CD.
As for recording LP's (I did about 100), it's a long road. Particulary if you want to post-process
your waves to remove big pops & clicks. Plus you can't record an LP faster than 33 1/3 rp !
So I think it's a safe bet to also use APE for LPs !

I tried to summarize my own experience with the formats I know in the following figures.
For different coding/bitrates it gives a rough estimate of the number
of albums you can fit in 1GB, the needed HDD space for your 350 albums and
a subjective indication of the quality starting with mp3/128k bits
please take those figure with --xtreme caution !

mp3/128kbps CBR : #albums: 18-22 HDD: 20 GB                      Quality :
mp3 VBR (r3mix) : #albums: 13-15 HDD: 25 GB Quality :        
mpc standard : #albums: 13-15, HDD:25 GB, Quality :    
mpc xtreme : #albums : 10-12, HDD: 35 GB, Quality :  
ape normal : #albums : 3, HDD: 120 GB, Quality :    

Ogg will lie somewhere in between mpc standard and extreme.

Some links :
Monkey's (APE) Site: http://www.monkeysaudio.com/
Forum on mp3, mpc, ogg etc.. : http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/
Site on mp3 quality (mainly lame) : http://www.r3mix.net/
For digitizing your LP's : http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~abcomp/lp-cdr.htm
An other one for LP to WAV : http://www.vinyl-restoration.f2s.com/
If you want to learn/play with MPC : http://www.uni-jena.de/~pfk/mpp/
Same for ogg : http://www.vorbis.com/index.psp

hope this helps.

[georgev]

Thanks to all.

When I mentioned database what I should have said was a DB application.  What I want is to be able while listening to a track see a page with links not only to other albums by the same group/artist but also links to albums for other personnel.  
Mingus Ah Um  >> John Handy
John Handy >> Mike White, Terry Clark, Don Thompson
or
Bass solos >> Don Thompson - Live At Monterey:If Only We Knew

So I could click on a link and then have the option of jumping to that track immediately or put it on a dynamic play list.


Guess I'll have to dig in and do some trial recording.  While APE may be the best, as one responder noted my ears are getting older and practically speaking a 120GB harddrive is not within budget.  Maybe MPC extreme?

thanks

[zevele1]

hey friends!!
David Allan Coe-Guy Clark-Steve Young-Townes Van Zandt-Hank William,do you mind all of it is S....?
You miss a BIG point.I really need to rip for the mostly gentlement on this forum!!!
Concerning formats,if you play it on your stereo mp3 at 192kps is a minumum.
If you want to rip your 200 lps,start by some yoga,it may help.