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Author Topic: File Numbers  (Read 2703 times)

MikeO

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File Numbers
« on: September 25, 2014, 09:11:04 am »

Not strictly a V 20 question as I had the same issue in V19

Is there a max number of files per library , as the file count rises would I expect to see more occurrences of hanging ?

I have been using MC for audio only for a couple of years now , I decided as I bought a new PC with HD graphics to use MC for all media.

I have around 50k files of audio and 25 k files of video . The PC is an i3 with Win 8.1 64 bit and 4gb of RAM

The problem I have is I quite often get a  complete hang in Theatre view when trying to navigate (audio and video), so much so I have to resort to Ctrl Alt Delete to get Task Manager to clear it. I normally re boot the pc at this stage.

I also notice Pending Windows updates makes things worse.

I am now using JRemote almost exclusively for audio navigation and Theatre View for Video with the JRiver HP Remote

I tend to manage my library using my main laptop across wi-fi in the house , using the i3 as a "server". I can't prove it but I get the feeling that copying files from my main laptop to the "server" makes things worse even after the copy has finished?

I have reverted to audio only and the problem seems less obvious, (no thanks to an erratic power supply with loads of outages this last week).

Before I start to weed out oldies and duplicates from my library ,

Am I asking too much of the I3 ?
Would more RAM help?
Is video likely to be worse than audio to navigate.

I have all the media files on 2 External Seagate ( 1 x 2TB, 1 x 4Tb) drives run on USB 3 from 2 ports on the PC

Thanks

Mike
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6233638

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2014, 09:19:56 am »

Media Center should have no problem handling a library of 75,000 files.
However, certain expressions such as IsMissing() can take a long time to run and Media Center will appear to freeze.
 
It's possible that you have something causing this in your library.
Try creating a new basic view and see if it also hangs.
 
Since it's happening in Theater View, I'd also check that things like your graphics drivers are up-to-date.
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MikeO

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2014, 11:17:20 am »

Thanks I'll try that and put some video back into the library

Mike
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MikeO

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2014, 05:25:48 am »

Hi

I bit the bullet and put my video drive back into MC. It imported without a hitch

However I hit the same issue

The PC is a Laptop i3 with 4Gb of RAM. Its less than a year old and running Win 8 upgraded to 8.1 . It has built in HD Graphics. Ie no video card per se.

Its running Windows defender as anti virus and literally only JRiver as software. There other programs installed but not running.

I now routinely use JRemote to run music throughout the house. The PC is connected to the AV Amp and I do not stream to any other systems.

I ran like this all day with no problems. Then I switched the TV on and put MC into Theatre View and started to control it with the JRiver Remote Control.
Until recently this was my mode of operation until I bought an iPad and has worked fine for a couple of years.

I paused the album I was listening to and navigated to a film and started watching with no issues.

Half way through a film I decided to change to a different film and the whole system seized up . The remote control keys did nothing. The JRemote "Playing Now" still showed the album I was listening to when I changed to Video.

The only way out was a Ctrl Alt Delete to get to task manager and then the view changed back to the normal grid view and I got control back.

Am I confusing things with the use of 2 remotes. Or if not has anyone any experience of this.

Its not an isolated experience , its been happening regularly since I started on the iPad ? (Maybe coincidence)

Any Suggestions ?

Mike
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Arindelle

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2014, 06:55:32 am »

Not strictly a V 20 question as I had the same issue in V19

Is there a max number of files per library , as the file count rises would I expect to see more occurrences of hanging ?

I have been using MC for audio only for a couple of years now , I decided as I bought a new PC with HD graphics to use MC for all media.

I have around 50k files of audio and 25 k files of video . The PC is an i3 with Win 8.1 64 bit and 4gb of RAM

The problem I have is I quite often get a  complete hang in Theatre view when trying to navigate (audio and video), so much so I have to resort to Ctrl Alt Delete to get Task Manager to clear it. I normally re boot the pc at this stage.


Funny you should mention this ... I'm having a similiar issue which I'm looking into.

For info, the size of the library ... there was a guy who posted he had 500K records in the database ... its virtually unlimited. I'm running a quad core i5 at 3.1 ghz that turbos up to 3.4 when needed - 8gb of ram and about double the size of your library. Also running the HD on chip graphics. I have no trouble with the basic setup of Red October HQ for playback, btw. Where I can make this crash reproduce itself is by using a remote or a mouse in theater view and going fast through the rollers; either from audio to video or in Video to a "sub-roller" menu.

Like you are doing the only way out short of rebooting is the task manager trick.  I'm wondering if this the hard ware acceleration option or the drawing option should be changed?? Maybe the graphics is not keeping up with the processor?? I don't know. Not sure if this happened in version 19 or not as I have just started putting video on my system. For info I have twice the number of audio files and even in a 3d view of all albums doesn't crash. If I go slowly between audio and video it doesn't crash either.

I'm going to get some logs, might be helpful if you could try to reproduce this and post a log too if you have the time, Mike.
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MikeO

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 07:55:09 am »

Curiouser and Curiouser !!

I may have exactly those symptoms , I am not very patient skipping between menu items , and it does seem like I simply "confuse it" by trying to move too quick.

Also I cannot recollect it happening to Audio files

I have just looked how to log so I'll add some video back and run a log and we'll go from there.

My Library is about 50k Audio files , 25 k Video Files.  I suppose to test it properly I should add all the video back.

It would seem that some users have significantly bigger file counts than me , I wonder if the Video count is critical.

I know my PC is no super speed one its i3 , 2.3 GHz Quad core. When I decided that was big enough , I had not really used it on Video. Maybe more muscle will help , but yours seems a fairly decent spec ?

I suspect it was happening in V19 as well although I have now uninstalled 19 so its hard to test. I certainly tried video on 19 and gave up and removed it, this was a while back so it must have been 19

Mike
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Arindelle

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 08:16:02 am »

Quote
It would seem that some users have significantly bigger file counts than me , I wonder if the Video count is critical.

I really doubt it, I only have about 400 films that fit on a 2 terrabyte drive so thats not the issue. My processor is pretty good but the HD chip is old compared to what they putting out now at Intel.  What doesn't make sense to me is that if it is linked to video (and not the menu in theater veiw) somehow, I would not be able to load Red October HQ (ok its the basic set-up not the full blown gold spec MadVR) and have absolutely no problem with Bluray files.

Won't have much time to test this for a day or two though. I wouldn't waste your time reverting back to version 19, imo.

Oh don't forget to clear the log feature beforehand if you can force a crash ... you keep it on and the file gets pretty big and unwieldy.
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glynor

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2014, 08:37:39 am »

I only just stumbled upon this thread, but the key piece of information in your original post to me is:

I have all the media files on 2 External Seagate ( 1 x 2TB, 1 x 4Tb) drives run on USB 3 from 2 ports on the PC

External USB drives are going to be quite slow, especially when used in tandem.  There are some recommendations you should review in the Troubleshooting Guide:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Guide#Disks_and_Locations

One thing, in particular that might help is an option described in the Troubleshooting Network and Slow Disks sub-page.  However, read through the whole thing, as there are other points in there that could be applicable to you (especially if you have your Library files stored on those external disks).  Also, just to explain something: You mentioned it was being used on a USB3 port, but you didn't mention if the disk itself is a USB3 model.  Even assuming it is, just because the disk supports USB3 does NOT mean it performs like a high-performance internal SATA disk.  The bus is faster, but there are a lot of other factors in how a disk performs (and external disks from most vendors can be assumed to be the crappiest disks they make, in many cases).  Another consideration is that you're using two of them.  Obviously they're plugged into two separate ports on your computer, but these two ports are almost certainly "split internally" and not on separate controllers.  This can further slow disk access when both are being actively used simultaneously.

Also, as noted in the guide, when MC is building thumbnails, it'll thrash the disks pretty hard.  You may be able to improve performance without doing much else by simply pre-building thumbnails:
Tools > Options > Tree & View > Thumbnails > Build missing thumbnails

This is the most likely culprit for why you are seeing a difference when you add video.  MC has to work quite hard to build the thumbnails for video views, and this involves a LOT of disk access to the media file location itself.  Your disks are slow, so this will perform poorly until it is done.  For the record, though, I have a huge video library.  There is nothing inherent to the size of the Library (not on the scale you're discussing anyway) that limits performance.  MC can track libraries with a half-million assets with relative ease.

Disk access can also be slowed by Anti-Virus application behavior, and if you're already on a slow disk, this can have a substantial performance impact.  Review this as well and exclude the MC processes and at least the folder for your Library's directory:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Troubleshooting_Solutions#Tame_Your_Anti-Virus

And, lastly, 4GB of RAM is about the bare minimum I'd use on a Windows 8 system.  MC is typically pretty efficient in using RAM, so I doubt that is specifically your issue (though other applications could be gobbling it up too, making the amount available to MC much lower).  But, RAM is cheap, and it might be worth upgrading just because.
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MikeO

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 11:48:10 pm »

Hi

Thanks for the pointers Glynor a very comprehensive document.

I have gone through the guide and set up as close to the guide lines as I can. I knew anti virus was a killer . I have now taken the main data drives out and the MC processes. I tried to build thumbnails but they were already built , I had the Build Thumbnails checked in the import options.

The library & Cover Art folders were already both on the C Drive rather than the external drives.

I am not sure if Obsidian is a "built in" skin but that's what I run Theatre View on , the others do look a bit old and tired  ::)

I have never seen any evidence of lack of RAM but as you say RAM is cheap but I can only add another 4GB to this PC (lap top)

So lets see. I have put back a small amount of video , about 200 files and see no hiccups yet. I will expand to the whole set soon.

Currently the 2 external drives are split Audio and Video ( 2 & 4 TB respectively) I will have a dig around and see if I can consolidate everything to one drive , even if it means "archiving" less watched stuff and swapping drives as needs be. There isn't enough room to put audio onto the C Drive as its only a 500GB Drive (maybe the cheap lap top route wasn't such a good idea after all maybe I should have built a full blown HTPC).

Maybe moving the series , movies etc I am watching to the C drive would be an idea to eliminate the external drive , but that would entail a degree of management etc. which sort of defeats the object

I have been until now just using MC for audio and have seen no issues, its when I added the second drive and video the problems started.

Thanks again for the help

I'll feedback as I have anything worthy of comment

Mike
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Arindelle

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2014, 07:37:12 am »

@Glynor ... ok I missed the external USB drives .. doesn't explain my crashes speeding through menus though
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MikeO

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File Numbers
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2014, 02:27:35 pm »

Hi
I have rebuilt the library with all video files rebuilt thumbnails

I go to a video in theatre view then back to previous screen and back to video just to stress things

Three times and mc freezes back to control alt del to get out even a restart on one occasion

Can this be down to external usb only?

Mike
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Matt

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2014, 02:46:42 pm »

I have rebuilt the library with all video files rebuilt thumbnails

I go to a video in theatre view then back to previous screen and back to video just to stress things

Three times and mc freezes back to control alt del to get out even a restart on one occasion

I can't think what would cause that.

Would be you be willing to capture a log of the hang?  It's Help > Logging in the program.

Send the results to matt at jriver dot com (remove the spaces and email).

Thanks.
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MikeO

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2014, 12:19:37 am »

Hi Matt

I will do that this morning and mail to you asap.

It seems to be when I "mess around" flicking between views in Theatre View. If I restart the PC , restart MC and simply watch it seems to behave itself.

When I start moving around the fun starts. I have followed Glynors trouble shooting guide and its still there.

Mike
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MikeO

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2014, 02:49:03 am »

Mail with logs sent to Matt

Mike
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MikeO

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Re: File Numbers
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2014, 07:46:33 am »

Hi

I think I may have something, please correct me if I am missing something.

In Theatre View when you get to the episode selection screen, you get 6 (say) thumbnails of the episodes, this is a jpg file in the Season folder eg S02E01EpisodeName.jpg.

As you hover over each thumbnail you see a synopsis of the episode , time etc on the RHS of the screen with the same image above it , this changes as the hover position changes

When you select that episode the next screen shows the same synopsis and image the watch button etc.

If you now start to play then go back to the episode selection screen, that image is missing. In fact I think that the image you would see is a frame somehow cut from where you are in the episode (am I right). But certainly the image is missing . If you now click on the episode again to go to the start screen the image is missing again.

This definitely seems to reproduce each time , but I do not have a control to check it against

It certainly fits in with my observation that if I simply leave it to run all is well , if I meddle it hangs. Its almost like its hanging trying to find an image ??

As an aside , didn't the screen with the x Thumbnails used to be a list in V 19 , I can't see any setting that allows me to show a list as opposed to a thumbnail ?

Mike
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