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[trcns]

I 'm experimenting with computer to output high resolution music. So, I'm trying to up-convert 44.1 khz CD ripped music to 176 khz via HDMI to my McIntosh MX 121 Processor. I've managed to output 24/96 in FLAC files, but I tried changing 44.1 to 176 or 192 and hit 'play' Media Center gives me an 'Error Encountered …. Changing the format to 16/96 or sometimes 24/96. Both MC 121 and HDMI are capable of playing 24/192 resolution. Any clues whats happening? please help.

[Matt]

It sounds like the device isn't capable of that high of a sample rate.

You could try other modes in Options > Audio, but you're probably just out of luck.

[mwillems]

The error suggests that your processor doesn't support 192KHz playback.  I took a look through the MX 121 user's manual and didn't see any indication that it does support 192KHz playback (the closest I could find was a statement in a brochure that it supported 192KHZ output over SPDIF, but that's a separate ball of wax)).

Have you gotten the MX 121 to playback 192 KHz files with other players over HDMI (like foobar)?

[trcns]

It took me four years to get comfortable with JRiver, Now Foober what is foober? Well read about foober but no I did not try, nor I will. I have dedicated computer with nothing but JRiver and FLAC files. I don't want to experiment with other things. Also I every fell short with any information JRiver community right away jumped in to help. So if I am doing something wrong it will fixed here, without trying different software.

[mwillems]

It took me four years to get comfortable with JRiver, Now Foober what is foober? Well read about foober but no I did not try, nor I will. I have dedicated computer with nothing but JRiver and FLAC files. I don't want to experiment with other things. Also I every fell short with any information JRiver community right away jumped in to help. So if I am doing something wrong it will fixed here, without trying different software.

I wasn't suggesting that you change software; I was suggesting that you try using other free software (foobar) as a diagnostic test;  if neither JRiver or Foobar can play 192KHz to your processor, that suggests that your McIntosh doesn't support 192KHz; if Foobar successfully plays 192KHz to the processor, that would suggest an issue in JRiver (either in your configuration or in the program).

[trcns]

I called MCintosh got information DAC in the processor. I attached the information on DAC in MX121.

[mwillems]

That's the tech sheet for the chip in the Mcintosh, but that doesn't explain what the McIntosh itself supports (the McIntosh is more than just a DAC chip).  For example, that DAC chip supports DSD, but I don't think the McIntosh MX 121 supports DSD based on the manual.

If you're not comfortable doing any diagnostic testing, I'm not sure what to advise; it might help if you could confirm with McIntosh that their processor supports 192KHz over HDMI?

[RoderickGI]

For such a high end unit, there appears to be very little information about which formats the McIntosh MX-121 does support.

Their web site says:

Dolby Processing True HD/Digital Plus&EX/Pro Logic IIz, IIx

DTS Processing HD Master & High Res. Audio/ES/96/24, Discrete & Matrix6.1/Neo:6/Express/Neural

I have to assume that the 96/24 refers to 24bit/96kHz audio, and that decoding of DTS-HD MA is therefore restricted to 24bit/96kHz. If that is the case, lacking any other information I can find anywhere, I would assume that Dolby TrueHD is also restricted to 24bit/96kHz. Of course both DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD are both restricted to 24bit/96kHz for 7.1 surround sound, and as the MX-121 is a 7.1 channel system maybe it has been restricted to 24bit/96kHz when decoding those formats.

Page 40 of the User Manual gives a hint of capabilities as well, in the "Compatible Formats" table for USB drive playback, it lists FLAC format support up to only 96kHz. See attachment. This implies that the MX-121 can only decode FLAC up to 96kHz.

I found some limited evidence that it can support playback of 24bit/192kHz audio from Blu-ray Discs, but there was no consistent information or thorough testing that I could find. This article lists the DACs used in several McIntosh units, but not the MX-121. However McIntosh did send the Datasheet for a 24bit/192kHz chip, so it probably does have a 24bit/192kHz DAC.

Maybe it can play stereo PCM at 24bit/192kHz?

When you up-convert music to 24bit/192kHz, are you outputting it encoded as DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD, or sending it as uncompressed PCM?

If you are encoding the audio to DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD in MC DSP (is this possible?), can you send it as stereo PCM instead? ( I don't have the equipment to test if MC would accept this setting.)

If this won't work over HDMI, the MX-121 has optical inputs that do accept PCM. Optical S/PDIF connections can support stereo only 24bit/192kHz uncompressed PCM, so if your computer has an Optical out connection that supports it, try connecting your computer to the MX-121 using a TOSLink Optical cable, and see if that works. If it does, you could set up a zone that switches output of your computer from HDMI to S/PDIF when playing stereo 24bit/192kHz audio, and set your MX-121 to that input.

Anyway, those are some things to try. You could also try asking McIntosh again directly which inputs support 24bit/192kHz and what formats are supported. i.e. DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD, stereo or up to 5.1 channel.

[trcns]

I asked the Mcintosh the question 24/192. Now its two weeks gone by and no response from Mcintosh.

[trcns]

I was able to find in there brochure saying it is capable for 24/192 as attached print screen.

[trcns]

Finally on my third email I got an answer. According to McIntosh it's a limitation of an audio driver in my computer. McIntosh recommended to buy HiFace USB to SPDIF which I just did, lets see, when it comes.

[RoderickGI]

Finally on my third email I got an answer. According to McIntosh it's a limitation of an audio driver in my computer. McIntosh recommended to buy HiFace USB to SPDIF which I just did, lets see, when it comes.

Interesting response. It certainly isn't a limitation of MC or the drivers it uses. More likely it is a limitation of their HDMI inputs, in that their HDMI can't accept 24/192 audio, even in stereo.

I assume that as they suggested the HiFace USB to SPDIF, and you ordered one, that you don't already have an S/PDIF optical or coaxial output on your PC. Otherwise you could have just used that. It would be capable of stereo 24/192 PCM audio out, and the S/PDIF inputs on the MX-121 should be capable of processing stereo 24/192 PCM audio.

Indeed, let's see what happens when you have the adapter.

[trcns]

I do have an optical output in the PC but that also does not show option to go over the 96 KHZ.

[RoderickGI]

I do have an optical output in the PC but that also does not show option to go over the 96 KHZ.

That is strange. I use the Realtek Optical S/PDIF output from my ASRock Z77 Extreme6 motherboard and it supports 192 kHz. Of course you need to turn on the sample rates that your receiver will handle in order for the S/PDIF to output that sample rate. My receiver only supports up to 48 kHz. See attached Properties dialogue.

While the ASRock motherboard is recent, even my old 2010 Gigabyte motherboard supports 192 kHz. Of course, both use Realtek chips, but most recent motherboards have pretty good audio chips in them these days.

Nevermind, the USB to S/PDIF may do the job for you.

[6233638]

That is strange.

Not really. It's only the last year or two that we have had mainstream receivers/transmitters that support 192kHz over Optical connections. Typically they have been limited to 24/96, while Coax could do 24/192.
That will be why McIntosh recommended the USB adapter.
 
However, I'm not sure why trcns has been unable to do 24/192 over HDMI.

[RoderickGI]

Not really. It's only the last year or two that we have had mainstream receivers/transmitters that support 192kHz over Optical connections. Typically they have been limited to 24/96, while Coax could do 24/192.
That will be why McIntosh recommended the USB adapter.

I have a Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 (rev. 1.0) motherboard which was announced late 2009 and released very early in 2010, which has a Realtek ALC889 codec installed. As I said above, it supports 192 kHz. I would expect anything made in the last four years would support 192 kHz. Maybe not some lower end motherboards I guess. The X58A is a mid range motherboard.

EDIT: Just a note to trcns as well. The MX-121 has coaxial S/PDIF inputs, so if your PC has a coaxial S/PDIF output and the optical output does not support 192 kHz, try the coaxial output.

However, I'm not sure why trcns has been unable to do 24/192 over HDMI.

As per my comments above, it is a bit of a mystery. Maybe MC was trying to send 24bit/192kHz stereo in a 5.1 or 7.1 container, or something like that. Or more correctly, it was trying to send stereo in a 5.1 container and so MC had to downgrade it to 96kHz to comply with the standard. But then, MC should support 5.1 or 7.1 PCM streams over HDMI shouldn't it? It is just if the output was being encoded to DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD that MC would have to downgrade it to 96kHz.

As I don't have equipment that can handle these high sample rates, and hence haven't been able to try it all, I am out of my depth with some of this stuff.

[trcns]

At this stage it may not make any difference to me as I said I already bought USB to SPDIF convertor. But since we are talking about it, my computer is Lenovo Q180. Attached PDF has it specifications.
I asked the question McIntosh tech support and also I posted my question on there web site as well. I got two answers from same person as below

Hi Tajammul,

Here is a response from the design engineer on this question:

 

Yes, the MX121 can receive and play back 24/192

I do not know the equipment/products that Tajammul has tried, but allot of players will only send out 96kHz from the SPDIF digital outputs.

 

If he wants to play 192k into the Coax inputs, one option is the HiFace USB-to-SPDIF converter, that can play 192k.  Otherwise, maybe he can find a BD player that does that.

 

Chuck Hinton 



Hi Taj,

We did not say the unit wont get 24/192 via HDMI, no need to post that on a forum…

 

24/192 could be played from a BD player via HDMI, but there are very few stereo soundtracks out there at this resolution.  (We are not talking about movies right now, just stereo music soundtracks).

 

Assuming the MX121 is  connected to a PC via an HDMI cable,  the player program on the PC is probably governing the playback rate.

 

When using J River, make sure you check the “DSP Studio” settings, under the Player tab.

 

Sometimes the player makes changes to the sample rate.  See below, how 192k files get resampled and sent out as 96k.


I don't know what these answers means. All I know is that I spend over $1000, between Bel Canto uLink, Noudust USB cable and Nordust Digital Coax cable. I also learned by reading the reviews that using external usb to SPDIF make major difference in sound quality, at least that is what's written in Audiophile reviews and magazines.

[RoderickGI]

I dug around for information on the Lenovo Q180. Found a datasheet that said it had a Realtek ALC662 Codec. See the bottom of this page;
http://shop.lenovo.com/us/desktops/ideacentre/q-series/q180

That is not a top end Realtek chip. It only supports 5.1 channels and 24bit/96kHz audio. See the Realtek site here;
http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=37&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=144

If the datasheet is correct the Q180 is not capable of outputting 24bit/192kHz audio via S/PDIF. I think that would mean that it will not be capable of outputting 24bit/192kHz via USB as well.

It looks like your problem is a limitation of your PC hardware. You may wish to check that with Lenovo. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[trcns]

Today I got Bel Canto uLink, and yes it was limitation from my computer's sound card driver.

I connected the Bel Canto uLink and believe or not first thing came out of my mouth was Woooow. I have over $60K invested in my Audio Video equipment and this tiny $675 converter just amazed me. No more noise in the music, just music. So sharp, so open, so deep, just Wooooow.

[RoderickGI]

Well done. Problem solved.