Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Tip24/96]

 I have been into home theater and DIYaudio for over 20 years, but, I am somewhat new at computer based audio/video, so please bear with me and hold my hand as I try to do something complicated!   I would like to setup JRiver on my PC to be both my source of movies and music, and to take the place of my receiver. I would like to have the ability to rip DVD's and Bluray disk to an external drive, and be able to play them back on either my home theater or dedicated 2 channel setup, while retain the same sound quality as the original disk, in particular, lossless audio codecs commonly found on Bluray disk, such as DolbyTrueHD and to a lessor extent, DTS-MA. I would like to output JRiver from my PC straight into my power amplifiers, and not use a receiver.

It is my understanding that I will need a sound card or external DAC that has at least 6 channels for my 5.1 setup, (well actually 5.4 as I have four subs). Can you guys explain to me how I should go about this? Where in the signal chain does the decoding for the audio codecs (ie: DolbyTrueHD and DTS ect..)? Is that handled in the DAC, or does this require another piece of hardware, and if so, what?  Will a 6 channel external DAC work, and if so, are there any that are under $400? Any advice you guys could help send my way would be great. Thanks!

[mwillems]

I have been into home theater and DIYaudio for over 20 years, but, I am somewhat new at computer based audio/video, so please bear with me and hold my hand as I try to do something complicated!   I would like to setup JRiver on my PC to be both my source of movies and music, and to take the place of my receiver. I would like to have the ability to rip DVD's and Bluray disk to an external drive, and be able to play them back on either my home theater or dedicated 2 channel setup, while retain the same sound quality as the original disk, in particular, lossless audio codecs commonly found on Bluray disk, such as DolbyTrueHD and to a lessor extent, DTS-MA. I would like to output JRiver from my PC straight into my power amplifiers, and not use a receiver.

It is my understanding that I will need a sound card or external DAC that has at least 6 channels for my 5.1 setup, (well actually 5.4 as I have four subs). Can you guys explain to me how I should go about this? Where in the signal chain does the decoding for the audio codecs (ie: DolbyTrueHD and DTS ect..)? Is that handled in the DAC, or does this require another piece of hardware, and if so, what?  Will a 6 channel external DAC work, and if so, are there any that are under $400? Any advice you guys could help send my way would be great. Thanks!

I'm basically doing what you want to do right now.  I have no AVR, and my computer is hooked up directly to power amps without a receiver in the middle.  It works great for almost everything. 

To take your specific questions:

1) Decoding: JRiver Media Center does the decoding, so you don't need any external box to do that.  Once you've ripped the discs using a program like MakeMKV, JRiver can handle the decoding from there.
2) You will have a tough time finding a 6 channel external DAC; most of the available multi-channel DACs that I'm familiar with are 8-channel.  That gives you room to grow, but makes the proposition slightly more expensive.  I use a Steinebrg UR-824, and have zero complaints about it, but it's about double your proposed price-range.  The Focusrite 18i20 is a few hundred cheaper, and folks on the forum who have one like it quite a bit, but it's still over $400. 

In the under $400 range: Behringer makes two interfaces, the FCA firepower series, in the $200 to $300 range that have the right number of outputs, but some folks have had driver/build problems with those interfaces, so I'd recommend testing them before buying them or making sure that wherever you buy from has a robust return policy.  Also, the Asus Xonar U7 is an external 8 channel interface that's about $100.  I have one, and it's not perfect, but it works pretty well.  Creative makes a similar interface to the U7, but I haven't interacted with one and haven't read much about them.

Internal cards are also potentially an option, although my own experience with them has not been stellar.  With the launch of the Asus U7, the internal cards aren't even really cheaper than comparable external interfaces anymore.

Do some research and browse around on the support forums for any interface you plan to invest in.  It will give you a good idea of which ones are good and which ones have problems, and will help you know what kinds of problems you could expect. 

You should also consider the input sensitivities of your power amps and whether they're expecting a balanced or unbalanced input.  Some interfaces have balanced outputs and put out a very "hot" signal, which might require putting some passive attenuators between them and the amps (depending on your amps).

[mattkhan]

You will have a tough time finding a 6 channel external DAC; most of the available multi-channel DACs that I'm familiar with are 8-channel. 

The focusrite saffire pro 24 is a good little 6 channel device

[mojave]

The Saffire Pro 24 is Firewire. If you want USB, then the Focusrite 18i20 would be a good choice. It is 8 channels and is around $450 on sale. Two of JRiver's developers use it in their own systems.

Other interfaces to consider:
M-Audio M-Track Eight $399
Tascam US-16x08 $299
ESI UDJ6 $140

[mwillems]

Yeah, I always forget about the firewire interfaces because I've never owned a machine with a firewire output.

[paul.raulerson]

I gotta say, almost everything you want to do is doable, with some effort.

But... adding an HDMI capable AVR into the mix makes it a LOT easier. One cable from your PC to the AVR, one cable from the AVR to your Television. Bass control, decoding, and more. Plus, you can always hang an Apple TV, Roku, Amazon Fire Stick, or whatever on the AVR, again with a single cable, and have a lot of streaming options you do not currently have.

I am using a JRiver ID as the MC device right now, with a local disk and a network share. It streams video very well from the share, and is utterly silent. Also easy to hide behind some books.

-Paul

[Tip24/96]

I'm basically doing what you want to do right now.  I have no AVR, and my computer is hooked up directly to power amps without a receiver in the middle.  It works great for almost everything. 

To take your specific questions:

1) Decoding: JRiver Media Center does the decoding, so you don't need any external box to do that.  Once you've ripped the discs using a program like MakeMKV, JRiver can handle the decoding from there.
2) You will have a tough time finding a 6 channel external DAC; most of the available multi-channel DACs that I'm familiar with are 8-channel.  That gives you room to grow, but makes the proposition slightly more expensive.  I use a Steinebrg UR-824, and have zero complaints about it, but it's about double your proposed price-range.  The Focusrite 18i20 is a few hundred cheaper, and folks on the forum who have one like it quite a bit, but it's still over $400. 

In the under $400 range: Behringer makes two interfaces, the FCA firepower series, in the $200 to $300 range that have the right number of outputs, but some folks have had driver/build problems with those interfaces, so I'd recommend testing them before buying them or making sure that wherever you buy from has a robust return policy.  Also, the Asus Xonar U7 is an external 8 channel interface that's about $100.  I have one, and it's not perfect, but it works pretty well.  Creative makes a similar interface to the U7, but I haven't interacted with one and haven't read much about them.

Internal cards are also potentially an option, although my own experience with them has not been stellar.  With the launch of the Asus U7, the internal cards aren't even really cheaper than comparable external interfaces anymore.

Do some research and browse around on the support forums for any interface you plan to invest in.  It will give you a good idea of which ones are good and which ones have problems, and will help you know what kinds of problems you could expect. 

You should also consider the input sensitivities of your power amps and whether they're expecting a balanced or unbalanced input.  Some interfaces have balanced outputs and put out a very "hot" signal, which might require putting some passive attenuators between them and the amps (depending on your amps).

Thank you so much for the reply! My power amplifiers are three Behringer iNuke1000dsp's and two iNuke3000's at the moment. They have the option for either balanced or unbalanced inputs. I believe that their input sensitivity is only like .75v. I had been considering using the Behringer FCA-1616, but, from the sounds of it, it appears that the Fucusrite 18i20 may be a pretty significant step up? I may buy one of those $100 Asus Xonar U7's that you mentioned, just to get me by until I can afford the Focusrite 18i20, plus that would give me time to play with the setup and experiment with the endless amounts of tweaks via the DSP/EQ ability of JRiver.

Is there anything that I need to know about the Asus Xonar U7 wrt setting it up with no receiver or pre/pro straight into my power amps? Is setup with it going to be the same with either the BehringerFCA-1616 and/or the Focusrite 18i20?

[Tip24/96]

The Saffire Pro 24 is Firewire. If you want USB, then the Focusrite 18i20 would be a good choice. It is 8 channels and is around $450 on sale. Two of JRiver's developers use it in their own systems.

Other interfaces to consider:
M-Audio M-Track Eight $399
Tascam US-16x08 $299
ESI UDJ6 $140

How would that ESI UDJ6 compare to the Asus Xonar U7? Is it worth the extra $40? As I mentioned above, I think that I will start off with one of these cheaper sub $200 units and save up my money until I can afford a Focusrite 18i20. Is the setup and performance any different between the U7 and the UDJ6? Are there any advantages or disadvantages to either the U7 or UDJ6?

Also, even though I will definitely be using the Focusrite 18i20 in the future, and being that I am starting off with either the U7 or UDJ6, would the Behringer FCA-1616 be better than the U7 and UDJ6?

[mwillems]

I don't know anything personally about most of the other interfaces you linked, but generally speaking you'd be well advised to have a look at and compare the electrical measurements for any interface you're considering, and read up on their forums about any issues folks are having.

You asked above in what ways setup would be different for the U7 and a Focusrite/Behringer.

The main difference is that the U7's outputs (if they meet spec) output around 1VRMS at 0dBFS.  If your amps are fully driven at .75V (usually input sensitivities are quoted that way), the U7 has the potential to drive the amplifier into clipping and/or overdrive the inputs, but it's not necessarily a major concern if you're careful about managing volume.  The U7's output is only slightly too hot for the inputs, so even if fullscale sound blew through for a moment it wouldn't be catastrophic.

By contrast, the Focusrite's outputs put out around 5VRMS!  That's much, much hotter than the inputs on your amps need to be fully driven, so I'd recommend investing in some passive in-line attenuators if you grab the focusrite as a safety precaution.  The Behringer or Steingberg would have a similar situation. 

I can't really comment on your specific questions comparing interfaces as I'm only personally familiar with the various Asus cards, the Steinberg, and a number of two channel DACs (which do you no good).  The folks on the forum who grabbed a focusrite have been happy with it; the folks on the forum who grabbed the Behringer had mixed reviews. 

One thing I can say is that the Behringer's electrical specs aren't necessarily much better than the U7, so the real issue is about reliability and whether you want a balanced signal path.  Personally, I would grab a U7, and see if it met my needs. 

[mojave]

If you have pro amps, like the iNukes, you want as much input voltage as you can get. The sensitivity of pro amps is rated with the gains all the way up. For example, the iNukes sensitivity is at .75V with the gains up, but can be increased to 12.28V by turning the gains down. This lowers the noise floor of the iNuke amps. They have some of the loudest noise floors of any amps I've used.

Another thing to consider is that when you do much DSP or convolution in the digital realm, like in JRiver, you lose output voltage. It isn't uncommon to lose about 6 dB of headroom which corresponds to halving the output voltage. So, if you start with 1Vrms is is pretty easy to end up with a maximum output of .5Vrms. Then when you consider that only the peaks will ever reach this output voltage, you are way undervolted for the iNuke amps.

If going to balanced amplifiers, I wouldn't get the U7 or ESI UDJ6. Since you already have the Behringer DSP amps, which have a less quality AD/DA conversion in them than the FCA1616, I would recommend that you stick with the FCA1616 for now even though its max output voltage is  8dBU (1.95Vrms).

[mwillems]

If you have pro amps, like the iNukes, you want as much input voltage as you can get. The sensitivity of pro amps is rated with the gains all the way up. For example, the iNukes sensitivity is at .75V with the gains up, but can be increased to 12.28V by turning the gains down. This lowers the noise floor of the iNuke amps. They have some of the loudest noise floors of any amps I've used.

Is the gain in the inukes actually adjustable, or is it just an attenuator?  I ask because he still risks overloading the input stage if the volume dials are actually just attenuators and the gain is fixed.  Some amps have adjustable gains, but most "gain knobs" are actually just attenuators slapped onto a fixed gain amplifier architecture.  

Regardless, it sounds like you've had some hands on with these amps, and it sounds like a higher input gain isn't a problem, which is good news.

If going to balanced amplifiers, I wouldn't get the U7 or ESI UDJ6. Since you already have the Behringer DSP amps, which have a less quality AD/DA conversion in them than the FCA1616, I would recommend that you stick with the FCA1616 for now even though its max output voltage is  8dBU (1.95Vrms).

Have you got any hands/ears on with the FCA1616?  I've been curious about it for a while, but the two folks on the forum I've talked to about the new Behringer interfaces both had issues.  One returned theirs and never looked back, the other one got a faulty unit but ultimately received a working one after RMAing.  The amazon reviews are also not very encouraging: http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-FCA1616-Firepower-Midi-Interface/dp/B00E87OK1G

I don't have any hands on with it, so again, if you do, I'll defer.

[mojave]

Is the gain in the inukes actually adjustable, or is it just an attenuator?  I ask because he still risks overloading the input stage if the volume dials are actually just attenuators and the gain is fixed.  Some amps have adjustable gains, but most "gain knobs" are actually just attenuators slapped onto a fixed gain amplifier architecture.

Most mixing consoles output +24 dBU and so do many pro audio audio devices (RME, MOTU, SSL, Lynx Studios, etc.). A lot of pro amps can handle +24 dBu (12.28) volts on the input due the requirement to work with these mixing consoles and audio devices. As an example, the QSC GX series has a Maximum Input Level of +24 dBU and the Powersoft K20 has a Max Input Level of +27 dBU.

A QSC engineer (Bob Lee) once described it similar to below. I just found one of his old articles.

An amp multiplies voltage and the gain control determines how much the voltage is multiplied.

{Gain control gain} × {Output stage gain} = Overall channel gain

Gain control gain varies from 0-1 and output stage gain is fixed. If the output stage gain is fixed at 32x, then the amp will increase the input voltage by 0-32x. The gain control gain is adjusted by using the knob. The knob is called a gain knob by most manufacturers, but some also call them attenuators. They are also called input sensitivity controls. They aren't really attenuators because they never reduce the maximum voltage the amp can output.

An amp has a set limit to how much voltage it can output. If the total gain causes the amp to try to output a higher voltage, then clipping occurs.
{input voltage} x {gain control} x {output stage gain} = attempted output voltage

Examples:
DAC output = 2V
Gain knob at full = 1
Amplfier fixed gain = 32x
Total output Voltage = 2 x 1 x 32 = 64V

DAC output = 4V
Gain knob at half = .5
Amplfier fixed gain = 32x
Total output Voltage = 4 x .5 x 32 = 64V

DAC output = 12V
Gain knob at 1/4th = .25
Amplfier fixed gain = 32x
Total output Voltage = 12 x .25 x 32 = 96V

Rane has a good explanation of the gain controls:

First, let's establish that power amplifier "level/volume/gain" controls are input sensitivity controls. (no matter how they are calibrated.) They are not power controls. They have absolutely nothing to do with output power. They are sensitivity controls, i.e., these controls determine exactly what input level will cause the amplifier to produce full power. Or, if you prefer, they determine just how sensitive the amplifier is. For example, they might be set such that an input level of +4 dBu causes full power, or such that an input level of +20 dBu causes full power, or whatever-input-level-your-system-may-require, causes full power.

Amplifier input sensitivity controls do not change the available output power. They only change the input level required to produce full output power. Clearly understanding the above, makes setting these controls elementary. You want the maximum system signal to cause full power at the amplifier.

There are amps that have actual attenuators, but these are more in the consumer realm than pro usage.

Have you got any hands/ears on with the FCA1616?

Nope. I've only used the Behringer iNuke amps and the DCX2496. Yesterday I ordered the Motu 2496 for some testing. Motu has a whole new lineup of cool products.

[Tip24/96]

I don't know anything personally about most of the other interfaces you linked, but generally speaking you'd be well advised to have a look at and compare the electrical measurements for any interface you're considering, and read up on their forums about any issues folks are having.

You asked above in what ways setup would be different for the U7 and a Focusrite/Behringer.

The main difference is that the U7's outputs (if they meet spec) output around 1VRMS at 0dBFS.  If your amps are fully driven at .75V (usually input sensitivities are quoted that way), the U7 has the potential to drive the amplifier into clipping and/or overdrive the inputs, but it's not necessarily a major concern if you're careful about managing volume.  The U7's output is only slightly too hot for the inputs, so even if fullscale sound blew through for a moment it wouldn't be catastrophic.

By contrast, the Focusrite's outputs put out around 5VRMS!  That's much, much hotter than the inputs on your amps need to be fully driven, so I'd recommend investing in some passive in-line attenuators if you grab the focusrite as a safety precaution.  The Behringer or Steingberg would have a similar situation. 

I can't really comment on your specific questions comparing interfaces as I'm only personally familiar with the various Asus cards, the Steinberg, and a number of two channel DACs (which do you no good).  The folks on the forum who grabbed a focusrite have been happy with it; the folks on the forum who grabbed the Behringer had mixed reviews. 

One thing I can say is that the Behringer's electrical specs aren't necessarily much better than the U7, so the real issue is about reliability and whether you want a balanced signal path.  Personally, I would grab a U7, and see if it met my needs. 

I definitely want to maintain a balanced signal path, if possible. Does the U7 have balanced outputs? It would be nice to be able to run balanced XLR or 1/4 cables from the DAC/interface/soundcard to my iNukes as they except either 1/4, or XLR inputs. Right now I have an old AVR and use a RCA to 1/4 cable to connect the AVR to the amps.

Wrt the voltage issues possibly clipping the inputs, do you guys think that it would be a real world issue? My iNuke amps have an input sensitivity of .75V but, I am unsure if that is minimum to drive the amp to its full potential or maximum that would clip the inputs if anything over that amount came through?

[Tip24/96]

If you have pro amps, like the iNukes, you want as much input voltage as you can get. The sensitivity of pro amps is rated with the gains all the way up. For example, the iNukes sensitivity is at .75V with the gains up, but can be increased to 12.28V by turning the gains down. This lowers the noise floor of the iNuke amps. They have some of the loudest noise floors of any amps I've used.

Another thing to consider is that when you do much DSP or convolution in the digital realm, like in JRiver, you lose output voltage. It isn't uncommon to lose about 6 dB of headroom which corresponds to halving the output voltage. So, if you start with 1Vrms is is pretty easy to end up with a maximum output of .5Vrms. Then when you consider that only the peaks will ever reach this output voltage, you are way undervolted for the iNuke amps.

If going to balanced amplifiers, I wouldn't get the U7 or ESI UDJ6. Since you already have the Behringer DSP amps, which have a less quality AD/DA conversion in them than the FCA1616, I would recommend that you stick with the FCA1616 for now even though its max output voltage is  8dBU (1.95Vrms).

Well that is the first that I have heard about loosing voltage when using DSP and/or EQ in the digital relm. I can definitely see this being a problem with the U7. The high noise floor of the iNukes is definitely a concern, especially for the 1000dsp's that I am using to power my LCR's. It is less of a concern with the 3000's that power my subs or the other 1000dsp powering my surrounds. Would turning down the gain knob on the amps help with both the noise floor issues, (to some extent), and help with the input sensitivity? Would are the pro's and con's of turning down the gain on the amps?

After reading the reviews on the Behringer FCA-1616 I have definitely decided to not get it. Right now I want to pick up a cheaper unit, such as the U7, in the under $200 range, and then later on this summer step up to the Focusrite 18i20!

[mattkhan]

Wrt the voltage issues possibly clipping the inputs, do you guys think that it would be a real world issue? My iNuke amps have an input sensitivity of .75V but, I am unsure if that is minimum to drive the amp to its full potential or maximum that would clip the inputs if anything over that amount came through?

yes it can be a real world issue, the (volume) level you listen at obviously has a big say on whether it is a real issue for you though.

[mwillems]

I definitely want to maintain a balanced signal path, if possible. Does the U7 have balanced outputs? It would be nice to be able to run balanced XLR or 1/4 cables from the DAC/interface/soundcard to my iNukes as they except either 1/4, or XLR inputs. Right now I have an old AVR and use a RCA to 1/4 cable to connect the AVR to the amps.

The U7 does not have balanced outputs.  Generally only the more expensive interfaces have balanced outputs.

Wrt the voltage issues possibly clipping the inputs, do you guys think that it would be a real world issue? My iNuke amps have an input sensitivity of .75V but, I am unsure if that is minimum to drive the amp to its full potential or maximum that would clip the inputs if anything over that amount came through?

It's a real world issue depending on how your amp is designed.  As mojave notes above many pro amps are designed in a way that the gain knob effectively controls input sensitivity.  Really that's just a clever way of saying that the volume control is an attenuator situated before the input stage of the signal path (i.e. it's an input attenuator).  There are a number of places to put volume attenuators in an amp, and depending on where the volume control is placed, you may or may not be able to overdrive the input. Some amps, for example, place the gain control in between the input buffer stage and the main amplification stage.  For those amps it's quite possible to overdrive the input.

It sounds like, based on Mojave's research, that the gain knob on the inukes is an input attenuator, in which case, as long as you set the gain knob to a sensible level you're not likely to overdrive the input.  I have a pro-amp at home (the ART SLA-4) which has gain knobs that attenuate later in the chain, and it's quite possible to overload the input stage without maxing out the output (i.e. the amp is not clipping because it's being driven beyond it's rated power, it's clipping because the input is too hot).

[Tip24/96]

The U7 does not have balanced outputs.  Generally only the more expensive interfaces have balanced outputs.

It's a real world issue depending on how your amp is designed.  As mojave notes above many pro amps are designed in a way that the gain knob effectively controls input sensitivity.  Really that's just a clever way of saying that the volume control is an attenuator situated before the input stage of the signal path (i.e. it's an input attenuator).  There are a number of places to put volume attenuators in an amp, and depending on where the volume control is placed, you may or may not be able to overdrive the input. Some amps, for example, place the gain control in between the input buffer stage and the main amplification stage.  For those amps it's quite possible to overdrive the input.

It sounds like, based on Mojave's research, that the gain knob on the inukes is an input attenuator, in which case, as long as you set the gain knob to a sensible level you're not likely to overdrive the input.  I have a pro-amp at home (the ART SLA-4) which has gain knobs that attenuate later in the chain, and it's quite possible to overload the input stage without maxing out the output (i.e. the amp is not clipping because it's being driven beyond it's rated power, it's clipping because the input is too hot).

How can I know whether or not I am over driving the input, or otherwise clipping the amplifiers input? Would measurements via something like REW and a UMIK-1 mic (or a Dayton UMM-6 mic) tell me this, and if so, what are the proper measurements for this? I currently do not have a mic, and have never taken measurements, but, I am planning to order one very soon!

I will be ordering an Asus Xonar U7 this evening. I can not wait to get started on my new AVR-less setup! I can live with the U7 not having balanced outputs for the time being. Later I want to upgrade to either the Focusrite 18i20 or the Focusrite Saphire Pro24. Anyway, I wonder if it would be ok to use some kind of an unbalanced to balanced converter in between the U7 and my iNukes? Perhaps something like an ART
Cleanbox Pro?

[mattkhan]

inukes accept unbalanced 1/4" jack (TS) connectors so you don't need a converter

[mwillems]

How can I know whether or not I am over driving the input, or otherwise clipping the amplifiers input? Would measurements via something like REW and a UMIK-1 mic (or a Dayton UMM-6 mic) tell me this, and if so, what are the proper measurements for this? I currently do not have a mic, and have never taken measurements, but, I am planning to order one very soon!

Mojave confirmed above that the inukes gain controls are structured in a way that you won't be able to clip the input with the Asus U7.  Even with a pro interface, you'd need an unusually hot output to clip the inukes inputs.

I will be ordering an Asus Xonar U7 this evening. I can not wait to get started on my new AVR-less setup! I can live with the U7 not having balanced outputs for the time being. Later I want to upgrade to either the Focusrite 18i20 or the Focusrite Saphire Pro24. Anyway, I wonder if it would be ok to use some kind of an unbalanced to balanced converter in between the U7 and my iNukes? Perhaps something like an ART
Cleanbox Pro?

Mattkhan is right; all you need are some RCA to TRS and 3.5mm to TRS adapter cables.  

[pschelbert]

How can I know whether or not I am over driving the input, or otherwise clipping the amplifiers input? Would measurements via something like REW and a UMIK-1 mic (or a Dayton UMM-6 mic) tell me this, and if so, what are the proper measurements for this? I currently do not have a mic, and have never taken measurements, but, I am planning to order one very soon!

I will be ordering an Asus Xonar U7 this evening. I can not wait to get started on my new AVR-less setup! I can live with the U7 not having balanced outputs for the time being. Later I want to upgrade to either the Focusrite 18i20 or the Focusrite Saphire Pro24. Anyway, I wonder if it would be ok to use some kind of an unbalanced to balanced converter in between the U7 and my iNukes? Perhaps something like an ART
Cleanbox Pro?

I am doing exactly what you want to do.

ADC/DAC is an RME Fireeface UFX (12 analog in , 12 analog out) plus 2xADAT in 2xADAT out: can connect any TOSLINK device: CD, SACD, DVD, Blueray
It has symmetrical input and output, You can use them as symmetrical or with just an mechanical adapter as asymmetrical (just to go from RME out to a cinch-input).
With the input you can connect a phono, cassette recorder as I do.

Amp:
I use a Marantz MM8003, 8x poweramp with XLR inputs (symmetrical). For the main I use a Yamaha MX-1 (stereo poweramp) connected with asymmetrical cinch.

With the RME you can adjust output to the level of your amp for each output separately (so you can use different amps):
-10dBu
+4dBu
High gain
for more details see the manual: www.rme-audio.com

I use JRiver and the RME as active Crossover as well

[Tip24/96]

That is cool. Can your setup play ripped Blurays in their native lossless file codecs, such as DolbyTrueHD and DTS-MA? That is my number one priority, that is, being able to play what ever movie or song that I have ripped to my PC and play it back the same way it would from an actual disk with a player and receiver. 

[Tip24/96]

Ok so I ended up getting a bonus at work yesterday and am ready to step up my game and instead of starting with the cheap U7, I can now afford to go up to a unit of around $350 to $400, I just need some suggestions on which to get in order to best meet my goals.

My goals are to be able to play straight into my Behringer iNuke amplifiers that power my 5.1 (well actually 5.4) setup with no AVR or pre/pro. I want to have the ability to rip both Blurays and DVD's to a 2TB drive and play them back in their native audio codec. Especially Blurays in lossless. It would be a huge bonus to have the audio interface/sound card to have balanced outputs that I could use straight into my iNukes with either a 1/4 or XLR style cable. Suggestions?

[pschelbert]

That is cool. Can your setup play ripped Blurays in their native lossless file codecs, such as DolbyTrueHD and DTS-MA? That is my number one priority, that is, being able to play what ever movie or song that I have ripped to my PC and play it back the same way it would from an actual disk with a player and receiver. 

I have no clue what these DolbyTrueHD and DTS-MA files are in the sopurce format.
I use mp3 and flac. Here I use all sample rates and bitdepth (44.1,448,88,96.172.192), 16, 24Bit.
The files can be mono, stereo, 4.0, 5.1 6, 8, etc. There is a standard which defines which channel is where in a surround file. I guess you have 5.1 on a BlueRay. Its probably 5.1 DVD-A audio format 96kHz/24Bit? DVD-A works great.
JRriver needs to be able to read the file. Once in JRiver, you can define the output sample rate (can be different).
So there are two questions:
1) can JRiver read your file :here I am not sure
2) Can your output device output the file JRiver send to output: Here you get the quality level your DAC does JRiver can adjust. This should work for almost 100%

[pschelbert]

That is cool. Can your setup play ripped Blurays in their native lossless file codecs, such as DolbyTrueHD and DTS-MA? That is my number one priority, that is, being able to play what ever movie or song that I have ripped to my PC and play it back the same way it would from an actual disk with a player and receiver. 

I just looked it up: So DolbyTrueHD has a bunch of formats....(I would call it a mess..), max is 24bit/192kHz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD

DTS-MA also the same issues, not fixed definition, but max is 24bit/192kHz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio

[mojave]

Ok so I ended up getting a bonus at work yesterday and am ready to step up my game and instead of starting with the cheap U7, I can now afford to go up to a unit of around $350 to $400, I just need some suggestions on which to get in order to best meet my goals.

My goals are to be able to play straight into my Behringer iNuke amplifiers that power my 5.1 (well actually 5.4) setup with no AVR or pre/pro. I want to have the ability to rip both Blurays and DVD's to a 2TB drive and play them back in their native audio codec. Especially Blurays in lossless. It would be a huge bonus to have the audio interface/sound card to have balanced outputs that I could use straight into my iNukes with either a 1/4 or XLR style cable. Suggestions?

You will be able to do this just fine with JRiver. You do need to follow the Blu-ray information on the wiki.
I just did a review of the MOTU 1248. If you need fewer output channels, the MOTU Ultralight AVB would be perfect for your situation. It has 8 output channels. You can get at least 10% off if you call Musicians Friend to order. The MOTU has top of the line ESS Sabre32 32-bit DAC chips and sound great. You will never need to upgrade your audio device.

Getting closer to your budget is the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 and is used by a couple of JRiver's developers. The Behringer FCA1616 is the cheapest 8 channel device that I'm aware of, but I haven't used it and don't know anyone that has.

[Tip24/96]

Still haven't decided on the DAC/audio interface. I have to purchase a projector first so that I can at least get my new dedicated theater room going. I am not a videophile at all, so I plan to just buy a cheap used projector in the $200-$300 price range. Then it will be time to purchase the DAC/Audio Interface!

Speaking of which, does anyone know of any 6-8 channel units that have balanced inputs for at least 6 of those channels? Preferably in the sub $500 price range? Also, can anyone recommend a good place to look for used units? I haven't had much luck on my local Craigslist or EBay. I am sooo ready to get this done!

[Douglasp_75]

I would suggest to keep it simple. One thing I have found out when using a PC is that there is so many ways to do things that it gets complicated and using a computer as the Volume controller doesn't work very well.  JRiver can decode anything and will always sound superb after it sends the PCM sound to the amps. But for movies I prefer using room correction. For audio I prefer straight dac 2ch pcm. Here is my set up. PC HDMI for movies on jriver Zone 2. To my Marantz SR7008. For music I use USB dac on JRiver Zone 1. Then to my Marantz SR7008 as a prepro then to amps.

Dac I use is a Emotiva XDA-2 gen 2. Amps I Use are Emotiva XDA-200 for LNR and let the Marantz handle the rest. Emotiva also makes a UMC-200 (new model coming soon I think) but only has XLR connection on sub. If you need all XLR then a EMotiva XMC-1 or Marantz AV7701 or 7002. Another option is to use a Oppo 103 or 105 as a prepro. But I think only the 105 has two xlr connections.

[mojave]

One thing I have found out when using a PC is that there is so many ways to do things that it gets complicated and using a computer as the Volume controller doesn't work very well.

I'm going on 26 years of using the PC to control volume. I guess I would disagree.

[Tip24/96]

I would suggest to keep it simple. One thing I have found out when using a PC is that there is so many ways to do things that it gets complicated and using a computer as the Volume controller doesn't work very well.  JRiver can decode anything and will always sound superb after it sends the PCM sound to the amps. But for movies I prefer using room correction. For audio I prefer straight dac 2ch pcm. Here is my set up. PC HDMI for movies on jriver Zone 2. To my Marantz SR7008. For music I use USB dac on JRiver Zone 1. Then to my Marantz SR7008 as a prepro then to amps.

Dac I use is a Emotiva XDA-2 gen 2. Amps I Use are Emotiva XDA-200 for LNR and let the Marantz handle the rest. Emotiva also makes a UMC-200 (new model coming soon I think) but only has XLR connection on sub. If you need all XLR then a EMotiva XMC-1 or Marantz AV7701 or 7002. Another option is to use a Oppo 103 or 105 as a prepro. But I think only the 105 has two xlr connections.

To me, keeping it as simple as possible was the inspiration for not using an AVR or pre/pro. If I am already using my PC with JRiver as a source, why not eliminate the unnecessary components to ensure a more direct signal path and add to convenience once it is setup? JRiver does room correction just as good, if not better than any AVR on the market!

[natehansen66]

I'm going on 26 years of using the PC to control volume. I guess I would disagree.

+1.....though 26 years is nearly my lifetime!

[Bukem]

You will be able to do this just fine with JRiver. You do need to follow the Blu-ray information on the wiki.
I just did a review of the MOTU 1248. If you need fewer output channels, the MOTU Ultralight AVB would be perfect for your situation. It has 8 output channels. You can get at least 10% off if you call Musicians Friend to order. The MOTU has top of the line ESS Sabre32 32-bit DAC chips and sound great. You will never need to upgrade your audio device.

Getting closer to your budget is the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 and is used by a couple of JRiver's developers. The Behringer FCA1616 is the cheapest 8 channel device that I'm aware of, but I haven't used it and don't know anyone that has.

Apparently the Ultralite AVB is the only variant which does not have the SABRE dacs unlike the full size 16A, 24Ao and so forth.