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[jphilpit]

I use MC 19.0.163 to play FLAC files from my Windows 8.1 PC over Ethernet cables to a DLNA media renderer, exclusively classical music. I love the whole experience EXCEPT for the occasional annoying gap in playback when the original CD split the continuous music into separate tracks, for example, when one movement has an "attacca" into the next movement, or when a recitative should flow smoothly into its aria that's been assigned its own track on the CD. The delay of maybe a little over a second spoils the whole effect.

I've looked in the Options... dialog, but see nothing obvious. I've searched in this Media Network forum, but all the discussion seems to be about scenarios that don't apply to me, so it seems like way too much text to wade through to get an answer to this pair of questions: Is there something I can do in MC19 to change this behavior? Or do I have to contact the maker of my media player, Naim?

I'll appreciate any assistance I can get. Thanks,
John
New York
PS: I know there's a more recent version, but the notes on that version don't suggest anything different about this behavior.

[krmasson]

Options... Audio... Track Change (3rd section), and check "Use gapless for sequential album tracks".

You can then enjoy Mendelssohn's 1st concerto, Beethoven's 5th (Emperor), Cimarosa's concerto for 2 flutes, and Shostakovitch's 8th quartet :-)

Regards

CM

[AndrewFG]

Right click on the renderer in MC and check the Enable SetNext support item. (But warning, if your renderer does not itself support SetNext, this will make things worse rather than better..)

Ps to check if your Naim supports SetNext you can download my DMR Analyzer app from my sig, and post the test results here. It would be very interesting to see what the Naim is capable of...

[Arindelle]

my friend bought a Naim Super Uniti last year and we found that using it as a straight DAC with JR was needed for gapless -- you get all the functionality of JRiver that way too and the nice Naim DAC of course ... check what Andrew said if all you are interested only in is gapless of course, they might have changed and now support the  "Enable SetNext" command. I'd also beinterested in the report form his nifty app for the Naim especially if it the super uniti

(you can create another zone with DLNA to use the Naim's network for streaming and things if you prefer, keeping the JRiver the renderer for audio for example )

[jphilpit]

Options... Audio... Track Change (3rd section), and check "Use gapless for sequential album tracks".

CM

The Options>Audio tab says I need to go to Options>Media Network>Add or configure DLNA server....

So I go there and open that dialog box, but there's no "track change" option to open, even after opening all the drop-downs in the list. Am I seeing something different because I'm running MC19?

[Arindelle]

The Options>Audio tab says I need to go to Options>Media Network>Add or configure DLNA server....

So I go there and open that dialog box, but there's no "track change" option to open, even after opening all the drop-downs in the list. Am I seeing something different because I'm running MC19?

see screen shot from version 19 below -- there is little difference. Choose your zone if you have more than one. If you are not seeing this you are not going from the options from the main menu.

PS - You might want to set an alternate for classical as getting rid of the "silences" can cut the tracks with a lot of dynamic range short.

[krmasson]

Sorry for the (too) quick response, I thought your MC was connected to your Naim directly by an audio cable. I missed the fact that you were sending your music through the network.

[jphilpit]

Let me make sure we're all on the same page here. I am posting this in the Media Network forum because I'm using the DLNA feature to send my digital music files over an Ethernet cable to a Naim ND5-XS. I am NOT using MC19 to play the music directly to audio equipment. (I also have that capability: to send music files through an ASIO driver to an outboard sound card. But I'm not talking about that approach here.)

When I open the Options dialog from the main menu, I see a dialog with a "Zone to configure" drop down. One zone is "Player," and when I select that I see the options in the previously attached image. But my zone "Player" is the zone that goes through ASIO not DLNA, as described in the parentheses above: not what I want to discuss.

When I select the "Zone to configure" to be the one called "ND5XS-53FB" and the left-side option as "Audio," the large area goes all white except for 1 line at the top that says, "Configure audio using Options > Media Network > Add or configure DLNA servers...." When I click on the "Media Network" option on the left side, as directed, the dialog changes to show the following image.

Does the fact that I'm not seeing my network media server as a zone when I click on Audio on the left mean that I have done something wrong in setting up my network server?

Thanks for whatever help I can get.

John

[jphilpit]

Note that in the image I attached in my previous posting, the dialog at the right of the image is what pops up when I click on the text "Add or configure DLNA servers." And I clicked on that because it's what I was told to do earlier in what I described in my post.

[AndrewFG]

Please follow what I said in my earlier post. This has nothing to do with the Options Settings.

[Arindelle]

Please follow what I said in my earlier post. This has nothing to do with the Options Settings.

+1 didn't mean to confuse the issue, sorry Andrew; just pointing out where the option was. I didn't know what Naim unit the OP has but when the SuperUniti came out, it didn't support gapless (setnext etc.); maybe they updated their firmware since then, don't know. so listen to what Andrew says he's the expert on these things  In the mean time, as I said (as I didn't know which Naim you have) you have a choice a digital inputs which will allow you to enjoy gapless when using JRiver as both controller and renderer (if this is physically possible of course) ...

[jphilpit]

Andrew,
I've downloaded the analyzer you recommended. I ran it and the results are in the attached image.
Note that it says "AVT:SetNext AVTransportURI" is supported.

But I also notice that that says "RC:SetVolume action" is supported. I have never been able to use MC19's volume control to adjust the loudness. And when I asked Customer Support at Naim whether setting volume over DLNA was supported, I was told an explicit No.

I also tried your suggestion of right-clicking on the name of the renderer. Under "DLNA Controller Options" I get a cascading menu with one options saying "Disable SetNext Support (for broken renderers)."

So it sounds to me as if SetNext support is turned on and the Naim ND5-XS supports that feature, but I'm still getting a small pause between tracks which are played continuously on a CD.

Any further suggestion? Or is there any other tab from the WhiteBear test you'd like to see?

John

[AndrewFG]

Thanks for posting the Gif image. However it would be nice if, on the About page, you could save the renderer report as a text file, and either post it here, or email it to me via the button. (The text file gives me a bit more info than your Gif does).

Concerning the SetVolume action, could you please turn on HTTP logging on the About page, and then go to the Renderer Tests page and try to play an audio file, then go back to About page, and either post the Http log file here or mail that to me also.

[jphilpit]

The generated text file is attached. If you see anything relevant, I'd love to know what the report reveals that might relate to my unwanted gaps between tracks.

Thanks,
John

[AndrewFG]

Thanks for the report. It tells me (interestingly) that although the unit is UPNP compliant, it does not purport to be DLNA compliant. However, that is unlikely to be the cause of your issue. Although in MC server settings, you might try disabling the DLNA setting and the DLNA Extra setting...

Actually, contrary to what I said in my last post, what I would really like to see is the following: on the About page first enable HTTP logging, then select the renderer, then turn off HTTP logging, and finally post the HTTP log file. That shows a detailed log of all the tests being run, complete with all results...

[jphilpit]

I try to follow these directions: "on the About page first enable HTTP logging, then select the renderer, then turn off HTTP logging, and finally post the HTTP log file." But I can't do exactly what you've requested. I check the Enable HTTP logging box, then click on the "Select a Media Renderer" button in the top right. I pick the Naim unit and click on Select. I get the progress bar called "Talking to the Media Server" and hear the usual evolving pad sound through my speakers. I'm then told to pick file types and select FLAC (because that's almost exclusively what I use). In the Renderer Tests tab, I see nothing filled in except "No test selected." But also, it doesn't seem to matter whether I select a file type, because I get the same behavior when I click on "Skip."

Anyway, once the test seems to be over, I look again on the About page. Following your instructions, I uncheck the Enable HTTP logging box, but that causes the E-Mail and Save buttons to gray out. So then I have to recheck that box in order to save the file to my desktop. But the file contains 0 bytes.

Am I doing something wrong???

John

[AndrewFG]

Oops. Sorry. After running the test, do not uncheck the box - just press the email or save button...

[jphilpit]

OK, here's the file it generated.

[AndrewFG]

Ok. I analysed your log file. My comments are as follows:

Gapless Play

The log shows that the Naim does have the full set of UPnP command machinery for gapless play (SetNext...). In MC you should right click on the Naim | DLNA Controller Options | Disable SetNext support | Un-check. With those settings, if the Naim still has gaps between tracks then either it has an internal problem, or alternatively the tracks do actually incorporate short silences at their beginnings or endings). In the latter case, you could try re-ripping those tracks with a ripper program that aggressively strips leading or trailing silences. And in the former case, there might be some things that you could tweak in MC to ameliorate that problem, but unfortunately no guarantee that it will work -- try a few combinations of the following:

• Try playing tracks in different audio formats. In particular try playing in "Original" versus "Specified Output Format - L16 No Header"
• Try both settings of Server Options | Advanced | DLNA
• Try both settings of Server Options | Advanced | DLNA Extra
• Try both settings of Server Options | Advanced | Enable bitrate

Volume Control

The log shows that the Naim does also have the full set of UPnP command machinery for volume control and muting. The log actually shows that its volume = 100% and muting = off. You said that Naim claims that it does not support volume control and muting, so it is possible that the UPnP commands are not doing anything useful inside the Naim, and that it always reports volume = 100% and muting = off. Your HTTP test log does not throw any more light on that because when it sees volume = 100% and muting = off, the test tool does not need to try to change the volume. You could try using MC to command the Naim's volume = 0% and/or mute = on and then repeat the HTTP test again with my DMRA tool. When my DMRA tool sees volume = 0% or mute = on, it sends additional commands to the player to override that, and it could be interesting to see what happens then...

EDIT: I uploaded a new version of the DMRA tool that does more explicit testing of volume and mute support. Download the new version, turn on HTTP logging, an post the lof file again please..

[AndrewFG]

On the JRiver forum you asked me to re-run the “HTTP logging” test with the updated program. I’ve done that and the log file is attached.
You said this version of the test might give you more information about the ability of MC19 to control the loudness of the playback on my Naim unit.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

Thanks for sending the log file.

It confirms that your Naim does support the Set/GetVolume and Set/GetMute methods and that it properly responds to such commands sent it (e.g. if the test application sends SetVolume = 99 then the return result of GetVolume = 99 as well).

However it may be that you Naim is just "pretending" to respond to those commands properly; and possibly it actually does not change the volume (obviously I cannot change that without listening to it).

[bob]

Unfortunately there are some devices that support SetNext (ie Sony Networked Media Player and Bravia TV's) that support SetNext but still have a small gap. This is because they don't request the next track until the first one has finished playing and close/reopen the audio device for the next track. This makes for a small gap, just not gapless.