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[glynor]

I recently wrote the very nice Rename, Move, and Copy Files article.  It came out well, I think.  One thing was plain to me throughout, however.

It would be better in every way if RMCF operations ran in the Action Window, with:
* A progress indicator
* A cancel button which functioned as an Undo.

I understand that it is a tagging operation, and tagging operations display in the Status Display. I'm not arguing that.  But RMCF is special, and always involves moving or copying.  Sometimes it is fast (renaming from one location to another on the same disk) but often it is slow (copying or moving from one disk to another).

It is also such a potentially damaging operation (if you mess it all up because you didn't read my guide), so you need Undo.

Undo actually does work.  I've used it before with quick-rename operations that went awry. But there is nothing more terror-prone than being partially through a 6 hour long, big, mistaken, disk-to-disk RMCF operation and needing to hit Control-Z and undo it.  I think you can undo while the operation is in-progress, but I'm not even sure. What if you'd subsequently (while it was running) done other stuff with MC?  What does it Undo?

In any case, a cancel button that rolls back changes is warranted, and a progress bar is warranted. I understand it might not be the simplest of tasks to do, but it shouldn't really be super-crazy-difficult (you can do it for other operations), and it is worth it, I think.

[6233638]

+1
 
Having some way to monitor progress in MC would be great.

[ferday]

I have to +1 since I use RMC constantly, anything to improve it is great

[mwillems]

+1

It would be nice if it could comment on failures as well.  Right now if the operation can't be completed for some reason (permissions, etc.), the only indication is that the status display will show some number of file tag changes to be saved that doesn't change over time.  It's hard to know (especially when moving large files) if it's just taking a while, or if it will never complete.

[Vocalpoint]

In any case, a cancel button that rolls back changes is warranted, and a progress bar is warranted. I understand it might not be the simplest of tasks to do, but it shouldn't really be super-crazy-difficult (you can do it for other operations), and it is worth it, I think.

Love it!

VP

[blgentry]

Sounds like a good idea to me.

But I'm really writing to say that this tool is one that exemplifies JRiver Media Center in a way.  It's powerful.  It has multiple mode of operation.  It's obviously based on real world experience.  If I had to guess, I'd say at least 3 of it's current features were probably requested by users.  You can see it in the variety of things it does and the DETAILS that it includes.  It's an awesome tool. 

Brian.

[Hans Weiland]

It's an awesome tool. 

If I may I would add one thing to the "wishlist" of the tool:
If you "MOVE" Video files, attached xml and cover do go with the file. So far so perfect.
But if you "COPY" a Video files only the file itself will be copied, xml and cover need to follow manually... 

As XML and cover are somehow "paired, grouped" to the original video-file, it would be super nice if they would be COPIED as well...

What do you think?

[glynor]

If I may I would add one thing to the "wishlist" of the tool:
If you "MOVE" Video files, attached xml and cover do go with the file. So far so perfect.
But if you "COPY" a Video files only the file itself will be copied, xml and cover need to follow manually... 

+1

[jmhsb]

+1

I have a few other requests to improve Rename, Move, and Copy Files, but to keep this simple, there is one in particular that goes along with this request:

When "Move all files in folder (including non-imported files)" is checked, it would be nice if those files showed up in the preview window along with their new filename path.  Seeing it there might eliminate the need for some Undos since it will be easier to notice than just one check mark.  Case in point: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=97937.0 

It would also let you know in advance if sidecar files and cover art are going to be Renamed, Moved, or Copied because:

because when the box is checked, sidecar files are moved but are not renamed so JRiver "forgets" them.  When the box isn't checked, they are moved and renamed.

That check box is a huge time saver me, and I'm really glad it was finally added.  However, there are still a couple kinks with it that could be ironed out.

[RoderickGI]

+1 on all of this, but certainly the first from Glynor.

I was doing some testing of the new RMCF functionality (MC20.0.111) for JTV TV Recording files yesterday, and even moving (actually copying then doing a clean up by the look of it) one recording took a very long time. So long in fact that I had to confirm something was still happening by looking in the source and target directories using Windows Explorer.

I also had some problems where a Cancel button would have been nice. I didn't know I could use an Undo (Ctrl-Z) on this sort of move. In fact, I will need to test that, because it would be quite complicated to undo a JTV file set move.

[fitbrit]

If I may I would add one thing to the "wishlist" of the tool:
If you "MOVE" Video files, attached xml and cover do go with the file. So far so perfect.
But if you "COPY" a Video files only the file itself will be copied, xml and cover need to follow manually... 

As XML and cover are somehow "paired, grouped" to the original video-file, it would be super nice if they would be COPIED as well...

What do you think?

+1

[fitbrit]

I pretty much agree with all of the above.
Just for a bit of balance though:

I currently earn all my money (not much right now) from doing tech support for high-end MC users, and the one thing that consistently blows them away is the RMCF tool. Just today I moved folders in Windows, with 10k+ files and the "update feature" took a few seconds to complete and all the files were correctly linked again.

[blgentry]

I'm bumping this because I've been experimenting with copying/moving large files with MC.  Having a progress bar and a cancel button would be a really big help for certain types of things.

For example, if you're going to move as little as 20 or 30GB, the only indication you get is that MC stays "hung" the entire time the copies or moves are happening.  This can take a while, which makes people like me paranoid that something might be going wrong.

On the other hand ,the Handheld Sync tool *does* provide status for every file and has a cancel button.  For larger moves, I'm tempted to either:

1.  If it's a mass move, use an external tool like the file explorer (in windows), or Finder (on Mac), or rsync (on either).
2.  If it's a selective move/copy:  Trick the Handheld sync tool into moving the files the way I want them, so I can have status.  Then update the database entries using RMC, since that's relatively instant.

I wonder how different the tools for RMC and Handheld Sync are internally?  As in, how hard would it be to port the progress indicator system?  That seems like the logical thing to do, but that's just me thinking out loud.

Anyone else think this would be a good thing?

Brian.

[Vocalpoint]

I'm bumping this because I've been experimenting with copying/moving large files with MC.  Having a progress bar and a cancel button would be a really big help for certain types of things.

For example, if you're going to move as little as 20 or 30GB, the only indication you get is that MC stays "hung" the entire time the copies or moves are happening.  This can take a while, which makes people like me paranoid that something might be going wrong.

On the other hand ,the Handheld Sync tool *does* provide status for every file and has a cancel button.  For larger moves, I'm tempted to either:

1.  If it's a mass move, use an external tool like the file explorer (in windows), or Finder (on Mac), or rsync (on either).
2.  If it's a selective move/copy:  Trick the Handheld sync tool into moving the files the way I want them, so I can have status.  Then update the database entries using RMC, since that's relatively instant.

I wonder how different the tools for RMC and Handheld Sync are internally?  As in, how hard would it be to port the progress indicator system?  That seems like the logical thing to do, but that's just me thinking out loud.

Anyone else think this would be a good thing?

Brian.

Any movement (or action) to ANY file in any way - should have a progress indicator. There is no excuse for any process to let a spinning wheel or any other "stalled" indicator appear on screen.

And yes - Cancel needs to have a hair trigger as well. One click stops everything instantly.

VP

[glynor]

bump

[Arindelle]

+1 on this one .. I try to remember to do a manual backup before but euh, well u know +1 

[GadgetBoy]

If I am using a client, can I not copy files to my local machine?

MC running on dedicated PC
Laptop connected as client

I try to copy files to my local desktop and it's not working. I'm not trying to move them (I noticed that cannot be done in the wiki when logged in as a client).

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[GadgetBoy]

I try to copy files to my local desktop and it's not working. I'm not trying to move them (I noticed that cannot be done in the wiki when logged in as a client).

"The Rename, Move, and Copy Files tool cannot be used to update the Library being served by another copy of Media Center running as a Media Server. Therefore, only Copy Mode listed above functions when accessed by a Client copy of MC."

[Vocalpoint]

I try to copy files to my local desktop and it's not working. I'm not trying to move them (I noticed that cannot be done in the wiki when logged in as a client).

Doesn't work here either. I can get RM&C all set up correctly - as if it was actually "going to" copy my target files to a local folder on the client workstation - but when I click OK - nothing happens. No files are copied.

Bad design I say. If Copy is not allowed - this tool should not even be accessible from any client. Clearly the other options in the tool - like Rename, Copy and Update Database and Update Database path... - cannot happen from a client machine.

And I think that would be a good thing - I wouldn't want any "client" having any access to the master library to mess with anything.

Maybe Copy only works if you are an authenticated "client" to the "server" - with password etc?

VP

[GadgetBoy]

My media server is password protected requiring my client to log in before access.

[Vocalpoint]

My media server is password protected requiring my client to log in before access.

If you still cannot copy anything - even with authentication - then I see no point to even being able to launch the RM&C tool - as a "client".

On one hand - does not make a lot of sense (to me anyway) to allow anyone to have any ability to copy anything out of my master library - others may have their reasons.

And on the other hand - why is this tool even viewable/selectable to any client if you cannot do anything with it - authenticated or not?

VP

[GadgetBoy]

In my particular instance, I am struggling to email photos to friends/family. My primary account is Gmail and I do not want to use a local app for sending emails (when trying to email photos from within JRiver it tries to send via an email client).

My proposed workaround (for my wife) was to try to copy the files she wanted to email to her local machine and then attach them to her email.

I guess I could attach a thumb drive, send the files there and then copy them from the thumb drive, but that seems like an unnecessary amount of steps, resulting in a lower WAF. :-)

[Vocalpoint]

In my particular instance, I am struggling to email photos to friends/family. My primary account is Gmail and I do not want to use a local app for sending emails (when trying to email photos from within JRiver it tries to send via an email client).

We do have photos in our MC master library as well - but I use Picasa to handle email activity etc. I simply have Picasa hit the master photos share that MC sees.

It's 1000% easier to do it that way - MC was never intended for this type of activity - at least the way I have my master media share set up.

VP

[JimH]

In my particular instance, I am struggling to email photos to friends/family. My primary account is Gmail and I do not want to use a local app for sending emails (when trying to email photos from within JRiver it tries to send via an email client).

I believe that MC is just using the email program that the OS is set to use as its default.

You may be able to use drag and drop.

[GadgetBoy]

We do have photos in our MC master library as well - but I use Picasa to handle email activity etc. I simply have Picasa hit the master photos share that MC sees.

It's 1000% easier to do it that way - MC was never intended for this type of activity - at least the way I have my master media share set up.

I have read that running multiple instances of Picasa against the same library can cause problems.

As far as the network issues - do you map your network drive to you local PC and then have Picasa search it? How is the latency?

[jctcom]

I recently wrote the very nice Rename, Move, and Copy Files article.  It came out well, I think.  One thing was plain to me throughout, however.

It would be better in every way if RMCF operations ran in the Action Window, with:
* A progress indicator
* A cancel button which functioned as an Undo.

I understand that it is a tagging operation, and tagging operations display in the Status Display. I'm not arguing that.  But RMCF is special, and always involves moving or copying.  Sometimes it is fast (renaming from one location to another on the same disk) but often it is slow (copying or moving from one disk to another).

It is also such a potentially damaging operation (if you mess it all up because you didn't read my guide), so you need Undo.

Undo actually does work.  I've used it before with quick-rename operations that went awry. But there is nothing more terror-prone than being partially through a 6 hour long, big, mistaken, disk-to-disk RMCF operation and needing to hit Control-Z and undo it.  I think you can undo while the operation is in-progress, but I'm not even sure. What if you'd subsequently (while it was running) done other stuff with MC?  What does it Undo?

In any case, a cancel button that rolls back changes is warranted, and a progress bar is warranted. I understand it might not be the simplest of tasks to do, but it shouldn't really be super-crazy-difficult (you can do it for other operations), and it is worth it, I think.

Back on topic. 

This is a very active topic with three different threads now.  I will add my +1 to this one though as it is a much clearer feature request and seems like a great way to implement it.

Carl.

[glynor]

I've definitely used and tested Copy from a client side. You cannot use the Copy and Update mode, but the vanilla Copy works (or, did work when I last used it).

I'll re-try it now.

EDIT: Yeah. Something is broken. I just tested it as well. Copy does 1/2 way work, but it doesn't make the files. I did this:

1. Connected from my laptop to my main home Library.
2. Selected about 100 MP3 files.
3. Did a RMCF in Copy mode to a folder on the desktop, with my standard music Directories and Filename templates applied.

It created the folder on the desktop, and all of the subfolders appropriate to the RMCF operation (so I got the results of my Directories Template), but none of the actual files copied over at all.

This absolutely worked when I wrote the RMCF Wiki article (I tested it repeatedly to be absolutely sure of how everything worked). Something broke.

[JimH]

It's probably a bug.  We'll take a look at it next week.

[Vocalpoint]

I have read that running multiple instances of Picasa against the same library can cause problems.

Not sure what you mean about "multiple instances" of Picasa against "the same library?

I have Picasa installed on my workstation but it's database is local and self contained and it merely indexes the file pointers it "sees" (from it's File Locations) and displays them in the app. Have not had any issues ever with this scenario.

As far as the network issues - do you map your network drive to you local PC and then have Picasa search it? How is the latency?

Over here - all photos are in our Photos share on a WIndows 2008R2 box. On my workstation - I have a mapped drive to this share and that's where Picasa picks up the networked media (in addition to a pile of local folders that have images that need to be constantly sorted). No latency or any indicator of a slowdown during search etc. Once indexed in Picasa - searches are instant regardless of where the source file resides.

Cheers

VP

[Matt]

I've definitely used and tested Copy from a client side. You cannot use the Copy and Update mode, but the vanilla Copy works (or, did work when I last used it).

I'll re-try it now.

EDIT: Yeah. Something is broken. I just tested it as well. Copy does 1/2 way work, but it doesn't make the files. I did this:

1. Connected from my laptop to my main home Library.
2. Selected about 100 MP3 files.
3. Did a RMCF in Copy mode to a folder on the desktop, with my standard music Directories and Filename templates applied.

It created the folder on the desktop, and all of the subfolders appropriate to the RMCF operation (so I got the results of my Directories Template), but none of the actual files copied over at all.

This absolutely worked when I wrote the RMCF Wiki article (I tested it repeatedly to be absolutely sure of how everything worked). Something broke.

I just picked an album and entered copy mode and it copied the files just great.

I wonder what might be different?  Thanks for any clues.

[Vocalpoint]

I just picked an album and entered copy mode and it copied the files just great.
I wonder what might be different?  Thanks for any clues.

How are you connecting to the media server? I connect via IP address.

VP

[Matt]

How are you connecting to the media server? I connect via IP address.

VP

I'm just testing a local library.  Does the problem only manifest when you connect to a library server?  Honestly I don't even know what the copy mode would do in that case since it's looking at URLs instead of files.

[Vocalpoint]

I'm just testing a local library.  Does the problem only manifest when you connect to a library server?  Honestly I don't even know what the copy mode would do in that case since it's looking at URLs instead of files.

Yes - that's current issue on the bench.

If I am a "client" - seems the RM&C tool is available to me - but some are saying that at least "copy" was working at some point (in the past).

I tested a client connecting to "server" and while I could get the RM&C tool setup to do the copy - I see the same result as Glynor. MC creates a folder structure but does not do anything else. No files appear at the destination.

Me - I do not understand why the RM&C would be available at all to a "client" - but that's just my take on it.

VP

[Matt]

Next build we'll try this:
Changed: Made the "Rename, Move, & Copy Files" tool no longer available when connected to a server (because the results were confusing anyway).

[CountryBumkin]

From the Wiki:

Using With Media Network Libraries

The Rename, Move, and Copy Files tool cannot be used to update the Library being served by another copy of Media Center running as a Media Server. Therefore, only Copy Mode listed above functions when accessed by a Client copy of MC. To use it for moving files or any other mode that updates the Library, you must run it on the server machine directly.

If this doesn't work, or Matt removes the feature from Clients, the Wiki should be updated.

[Vocalpoint]

Next build we'll try this:
Changed: Made the "Rename, Move, & Copy Files" tool no longer available when connected to a server (because the results were confusing anyway).

Coolio. Makes sense to me.

Thanks!

VP

[GadgetBoy]

Why wouldn't the option be kept open to copy to a local machine?

I still have the ability to insert a thumb drive into the local machine and "Send to" the external device. Not sure what the difference would be.

[Vocalpoint]

Why wouldn't the option be kept open to copy to a local machine?

Was not working anyway (and yes - it was massively confusing as the RM&C tool was displaying some weird network pointers as the "source" anyway) so why offer the option?

You can still copy from the machine acting as "server" with no issues?

VP

[glynor]

Next build we'll try this:
Changed: Made the "Rename, Move, & Copy Files" tool no longer available when connected to a server (because the results were confusing anyway).

No. This has always worked in the past if you have local access to the files.

So, as an example, my HTPC at home and my Laptop both have access to all the files directly via a shared network drive (and the paths match the source locations on the Server). I can (or could) use RMCF to create local copies of anything in my MC Library on that computer, if needed. I use this fairly often to create local copies of videos on my laptop before I leave for trips.

It worked before. It is broken now. And now you blocked the function entirely. Boo on that.

[Vocalpoint]

It worked before. It is broken now. And now you blocked the function entirely. Boo on that.

Never worked here. And I have the same shared drives (from my workstation) as the HTPC.

For me personally - I do not want any "client" being able to copy anything anywhere. But I can understand others like Glynors example.

However if this worked properly (as in the RM&C tool - on the client - showed actually correct source file paths instead of network/IP pointers) - maybe "copy" could be an available option for an "authenticated" client that does have the ability to sync/modify the actual server library?

VP

[glynor]

Copy works via drag-drop for sure. I'm going to test it now asap, because I feel like I'm going crazy.