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Author Topic: Windows 10 certification  (Read 6226 times)

AlexS

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Windows 10 certification
« on: August 11, 2015, 08:36:15 am »

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Hendrik

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2015, 08:52:47 am »

MC works just fine on Windows 10, there is no reason for anyone to worry about any certification.
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glynor

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2015, 09:12:42 am »

there is no reason for anyone to worry about any certification.

It is a marketing scheme.

What about 64 bit?

What do you mean by this?

If you mean will JRiver release a fully 64-bit version of MC?  Then, probably not anytime soon, unless 32-bit code stops being supported in the future for some reason, or the Intel architecture changes to make there an actual advantage for MC.  More:
* https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=70778.msg477639#msg477639
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AlexS

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2015, 09:20:31 am »

Standard responses...

So none of this will be of benefit obviously  ::):
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/hh749939.aspx

BTW I'm installing the latest right now on a completely clean Windows 10 installation (after format), and during installation it's freezing at "Installing Direct X components" (Edit after three tries it installed).
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2015, 12:14:41 pm »

BTW I'm installing the latest right now on a completely clean Windows 10 installation (after format), and during installation it's freezing at "Installing Direct X components" (Edit after three tries it installed).

No issues when I installed it.
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Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

AlexS

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2015, 01:36:17 pm »

As stated I got it to work after third try...

Back to topic...

So you guys seriously think this is of no benefit? Look at the link below... Really?
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/hh749939.aspx

Or are you just allergic to M$?
Any developer here care to comment?
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Awesome Donkey

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2015, 01:59:23 pm »

My personal opinion is that it seems lots of developers and applications don't bother with the certification, so what would be the point? Do other media players (foobar2000, MediaMonkey, Winamp, AIMP, etc.) even bother with certification?
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I don't work for JRiver... I help keep the forums safe from "male enhancements" and other sources of sketchy pharmaceuticals.

Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit + Ubuntu 24.10 Oracular Oriole 64-bit | Windows 11 24H2 Update 64-bit (Intel N305 Fanless NUC 16GB RAM/500GB M.2 NVMe SSD)
JRiver Media Center 33 (Windows + Linux) | iFi ZEN DAC 3 | JBL 306P MkII Studio Monitors | Audio-Technica ATH-M50x Headphones

Hendrik

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2015, 02:47:54 pm »

How would a fancy sign that says we're certified make MC better? It would not. Its just effort to go through that process, which takes time away from actually working on MC.
So in a sense, doing that makes MC worse!

I just don't understand what you expect to gain from pushing this topic. Certification doesn't change how an application works.
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blgentry

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 06:10:45 pm »

It seems like Alex is reporting buggy behavior and believes that certification will fix those bugs.  That's how I read what's going on.  <shrug>

Brian.
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AlexS

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2015, 08:56:12 pm »

It seems like Alex is reporting buggy behavior and believes that certification will fix those bugs.  That's how I read what's going on.  <shrug>
Brian.

As you well know I haven't said anything of the sort. Please supply a quote. Otherwise please stop peddling fiction.


How would a fancy sign that says we're certified make MC better? It would not. Its just effort to go through that process, which takes time away from actually working on MC.
So in a sense, doing that makes MC worse!

I just don't understand what you expect to gain from pushing this topic. Certification doesn't change how an application works.

Did you actually read this? Of course it changes how an application works. There are areas of JRiver that will of course improve after going through this.
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/hh749939.aspx

There are plenty of ways this can improve the stability of the application, and there are plenty of enhancements that will improve JRiver Usability.
For instance is JRiver DPI aware?

Are there any developers here that might be less dismissive who would be interested to address the actual link I've posted (once again)? So far I've seen slogans, obvious assumptions/preconception or people write things that are nothing to do with what I'm talking about. Clearly people really aren't getting a grasp of the certification process, and would rather slam it down before actually trying to grasp what it actually is. I would hope JRiver won't need to do much to get certified here. If it needs a lot of work well it's probably for the best. A security audit for instance never harms any application, if the app hasn't been through any of these sort of tests it's about time it did.

I am a MS Developer myself I would prefer to have a sensible technical discussion around the link I posted above. Please list which part of the certification process won't be of benefit to the app (again refer to the link, please avoid your preconceptions).

Thanks...
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blgentry

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2015, 09:09:20 pm »

As you well know I haven't said anything of the sort. Please supply a quote. Otherwise please stop peddling fiction.

You seem to think that JRiver "would benefit from changes".  I'm not trying to start anything or put any words in your mouth. On second thought, I probably should have kept my opinion to myself.  I'll stop commenting in this thread now.

Brian.
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AlexS

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2015, 09:19:55 pm »

You seem to think that JRiver "would benefit from changes".

That's a completely different statement than what you wrote earlier. The above statement is probably correct, the below statement is a work of fiction.

It seems like Alex is reporting buggy behavior and believes that certification will fix those bugs.  That's how I read what's going on.  <shrug>
Brian.


On second thought, I probably should have kept my opinion to myself.  I'll stop commenting in this thread now.

Brian.

If we could all have a real discussion about what exactly is/isn't of benefit here when referring to points in the URL I quoted above (i.e. the actual certification itself, rather than preconceptions), rather than attempt to kettle it in before it even gets a chance, we could all have quite an interesting discussion in this thread.

It seems the default position is to be dismissive here which I find a little worrying to be honest.
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glynor

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2015, 09:30:47 pm »

The primary benefits of the Windows certification program, like the one for Windows 8 and Windows 8.1 before it, are inclusion in Microsoft marketing materials and the ability to submit your application to the Microsoft Store (which JRiver is unlikely to do for other reasons).

Going through this certification process involves, primarily a ton of paperwork, and a non-trivial amount of cost (because time is money).

Alex, the information you're linking to is primarily the process and requirements for certification, not the benefits to the developers, which Microsoft loosely enumerates here (though it seems they haven't bothered to make a new page for the Windows 10 certification process yet):
https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/hh968450.aspx

As I said before, it is primarily a marketing scheme. In some cases, it might be worthwhile for applications to go through the process, especially if they intend to target new functionality primarily targeted at Windows 10 (such as making a Universal application). Or, perhaps, if they have enterprise customers that require it. This doesn't really apply to Media Center (which is cross-platform focused), and also doesn't apply very much to an application that has existed on the platform for two decades.

In any case, you asked the question, and got an answer from one of the lead developers (Hendrik). JRiver does not believe that certification through Microsoft provides substantial developer-facing benefits to outweigh the substantial resource commitment that it would require. Thanks for your thoughts, but I'm going to lock this now.
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Hendrik

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Re: Windows 10 certification
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2015, 01:37:11 am »

AlexS, all you did was post a few pointless links which include literally hundreds of points, of which we probably fullfill 90% already, if not more. You did not once mention a specific point that MC is lacking (and we are DPI aware since MC20).

If you think any particular part of MC needs improvement, please request that specifically in the Feature Request thread, but don't hide behind some certification.
We're not going to spent a lot of time on this nonsense certification just for the sake of it.

We don't need a certificate to make MC better, so please focus on actual issues, if you have any, instead of throwing some blanket list around.
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