INTERACT FORUM
Windows => Television => Topic started by: JimH on March 27, 2023, 04:07:49 pm
-
We've had some nice help from former Windows Media Center users. Here's a summary.
WMC records in WTV format, which recent versions of MC failed to play.
MC 30.0.87 and above fix that problem so WTV files play. Discussion here (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135458.msg938266.html#msg938266)
We hope to offer WTV recording in a future version. [Edit: WTV recording is working in MC31 (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,136201.0.html)]
You may or may not need to disable WMC. It's a setting under MC. Tools > Options > Theater View > Disable Windows Media Center. It's mostly to keep WMC from grabbing the Green Button on the remote.
If anyone else has similar tips, please post them here.
-
Comskip can be used to skip commercials. Here's an older thread:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=108326.0
Right and left arrow can skip forward and back. Time intervals are 30 seconds forward, and 10 seconds back, but can be changed in MC's Options under Audio settings.
-
We've had some nice help from former Windows Media Center users. Here's a summary.
We hope to offer WTV recording in a future version.
What advantages would that have compared to the existing JTV and TS format options? The only one that comes to mind is that those recordings could potentially be watched in Windows Media Center, but I don’t really see a benefit there. Even though I still use Windows Media Center for some things, I’d honestly rather see you guys put your efforts into something else unless there’s a real benefit.
-
Little benefit except it's what WMC users are used to.
-
Little benefit except it's what WMC users are used to.
I found and read through the other thread. As someone who still hasn’t completely transitioned away from WMC, my feeling is the support that was added for importing and playing WTV files has been sufficient. After that other poster spends a bit of time familiarizing himself with JRiver, I suspect the “need” for recording to WTV files may go away.
-
Nice to hear. Thanks.
-
After that other poster spends a bit of time familiarizing himself with JRiver, I suspect the “need” for recording to WTV files may go away.
I’m my case I just need to be able to access the alternative audio tracks so I can enjoy my existing material and also get the channel a program has been recorded from into Comskip and I won’t need WTV recording anymore. I’m guessing the easiest way of finding the recording channel is to put each channels recordings into a different folder as they are recorded? For me that would be easiest. With WTV DVRMSToolbox could get this information from the tags, and I’m hopeful it may work with TS too when I have time to try it later this week
-
I’m guessing the easiest way of finding the recording channel is to put each channels recordings into a different folder as they are recorded? For me that would be easiest. With WTV DVRMSToolbox could get this information from the tags, and I’m hopeful it may work with TS too when I have time to try it later this week
Putting them in different folders is not needed. MC uses guide info and online databases to tag every recording with the channel, the season, the year, etc. And you can add specific comskip.ini for each and every recording rule, it's on the last page of the the record rule setup.
-
What advantages would that have compared to the existing JTV and TS format options? The only one that comes to mind is that those recordings could potentially be watched in Windows Media Center, but I don’t really see a benefit there. Even though I still use Windows Media Center for some things, I’d honestly rather see you guys put your efforts into something else unless there’s a real benefit.
+1
-
Putting them in different folders is not needed. MC uses guide info and online databases to tag every recording with the channel, the season, the year, etc. And you can add specific comskip.ini for each and every recording rule, it's on the last page of the the record rule setup.
The other person was talking about for existing imported WTV files, not new recordings that are made by JRiver. I'm not sure if the recording channel info is contained in the WTV file tags or not, but if so, JRiver may just need to add the capability to pull that info from the tags.
-
Putting them in different folders is not needed. MC uses guide info and online databases to tag every recording with the channel, the season, the year, etc. And you can add specific comskip.ini for each and every recording rule, it's on the last page of the the record rule setup.
Can you give me a more detailed description of where to find this, just looked into options and also normal view and can’t find it.
-
Can you give me a more detailed description of where to find this, just looked into options and also normal view and can’t find it.
On the last page of each recording rule....
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=114568.0
-
Trying to get my photos organised as I want them in JR.
Can someone help with a solution please?
I need to emulate the picture attached from the 10ft view.
I have some 4000 pictures on various UNC shares where the folder name is the subject matter - I do not intend to change that, as it's logical and in place.
So an easy solution if possible please - thanks.
-
MC can fill any tag from a folder name.
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Tag_on_Import
-
I can't seem to get JR to understand the concept of folder hierarchy.
Starting from the top level of any UNC, I need JR's 'Theatre Pictures' to display all the folders (with thumbs and folder names) at that level and then allow me to click on any folder to drill down layer at a time till I reach the relevant pictures - see pic above.
Anyone coming from a Windows environment - which all WMC users are - will need to accommodate windows folders and windows libraries as described above - can someone just tell me how please.
I don't find the wiki very helpful I'm afraid.
-
Trying to get my photos organised as I want them in JR...
In short, what I have done is use the "Album" tag to get my photos grouped. Then my photos show up in theater view > Images > Album, grouped the way I want them.
-
Thanks tzr916
Are you saying that "Album" tag - or any other - doesn't naturally understand windows folders and simply honour them?
I don't understand why on earth not, as that's what every windows user uses to organise their files.
-
mcq,
The short answer is that files and folders are the past. Storing metadata inside the files is the method of the future.
With file tags, you can move files around freely and still preserve the metadata. You can forget about where the files are.
You can still accomplish an organization that is what you want. But it will help to read.
-
Ok Jim, so the answer is no.
I understand your evangelical message, but as much of the world is on MS Windows and organised by folder level - including in Exchange, it might be helpful if JR took cognisance of folder hierarchy for those who wish to view life that way.
This issue, or a version of it, has appeared in numerous posts over the last 10 years from various people, so it's not just me.
Trying to welcome WMC users over to JR by telling them to forget their folder hierarchy and tag all their files, is not terribly user friendly,
Why not accommodate folder hierarchy?
-
JRiver doesn't automatically do anything with the folder structure your files are stored in other than import files from folders you have configured to auto import. It does set a FileName (Path) tag to the full path, but that doesn't really do much for you.
However, as part of the auto import feature, you can have it apply tags to each item that is imported, so something like this:
If(Regex([Filename (path)],/#\\\\SERVERNAME\\Images\\Trips\\(.*)\\#/,0,0),Regex([Filename (path)],/#\\\\SERVERNAME\\Images\\Trips\\(.*)\\#/,1,0),[Studio])
Will take the remaining portion of the file's full path and set the Studio tag to it. This approach may help you get to what you want, but it somewhat depends on how many levels you're looking to work with. You'll also need to think about how you want to customize your Theater View views to work with this.
To be successful using JRiver, you'll need to get away from the Windows file structure approach and instead think about how to tag your media so you can display it as desired in JRiver.
Jim's Wiki reference is a useful starting point, but doesn't have an example that fits your case. If you use my example from above, it may get you closer to where you want to be. Make sure you adjust "SERVERNAME\\Images\\Trips" in my example to fit your needs. If you haven't worked with regular expressions before, you're in for a bit of a learning curve there as well.
Getting JRiver to do what you want can be pretty challenging because it is so configurable.
Don't treat getting JRiver set up as a sprint, but more like long distance running - pace yourself.
Note that it may take a few passes to get to where you want to be. You may need to "start over" in JRiver a few times because those auto import rules only get applied at the time the file is first imported into JRiver. But don't be afraid to experiment a bit. You can always nuke your JRiver library and start over if you need to re-import everything. It could also make sense to start with a small, representative, set of files and get your rules configured properly, then bring the rest of the files in.
-
Hi greynolds
Thank you very much for that detailed explanation - it explains much of what I have been experiencing.
I note the syntax but somewhat dread the thought of having to indulge in all that stuff - should I really have to is the question?
I see JR as an excellent 'kit of parts' if I wanted to build a kit car - so to speak - except it is missing the fundamental of folder hierarchy for users like myself.
I don't think WMC users are looking for a trip back to the class room - should they have to?
Even when Musk built his Tesla - the brake and accelerator were still where a buyer would expect to find them.
Also instead of having left and right buttons to press there is still a steering wheel - familiarity is important for new users/customers.
This is a product for sale and new customers have to be offered something that is reasonably intuitive.
My suggestion would be for the development team, who I admire considerably, to add the concept of folders to the product.
They could also usefully move the recording function to the 'SYSTEM' user, so that it keeps running if the pc is logged out or reboots, or some such.
-
Hi greynolds
Thank you very much for that detailed explanation - it explains much of what I have been experiencing.
I note the syntax but somewhat dread the thought of having to indulge in all that stuff - should I really have to is the question?
I see JR as an excellent 'kit of parts' if I wanted to build a kit car - so to speak - except it is missing the fundamental of folder hierarchy for users like myself.
I don't think WMC users are looking for a trip back to the class room - should they have to?
Even when Musk built his Tesla - the brake and accelerator were still where a buyer would expect to find them.
Also instead of having left and right buttons to press there is still a steering wheel - familiarity is important for new users/customers.
This is a product for sale and new customers have to be offered something that is reasonably intuitive.
My suggestion would be for the development team, who I admire considerably, to add the concept of folders to the product.
They could also usefully move the recording function to the 'SYSTEM' user, so that it keeps running if the pc is logged out or reboots, or some such.
One of the many reasons for not going with the folder structure is that related material may or may not all be stored in the same folder or you may want to include the same file in different groups. Using tagged information instead allows you to group things that are spread across multiple locations in more than 1 way.
Want to have a view of pictures that have flowers in them? Set up a tagging system for flowers and a view that uses it.
Want to have a view of pictures from your trip(s) to Yellowstone? Set up a tagging system for Yellowstone and a view that uses it.
Any given file could be tagged for both.
You can't accomplish that if you limit yourself to going by folder structure.
Rather than insisting that JRiver adopt your current views, take some time to understand the product.
I agree with the comment about moving the recording function to a distinct task to isolate it from UI crashes, etc. But that has been discussed multiple times - the bottom line is they aren't going to do it.
-
Thanks again for reply.
I understand metadata fairly well - I have developed a 'custom schema' for our school to use with 'Bridge' as it gradually brings its 400year archive into searchable format using MS's Sharepoint and a filter from IFilter shop - and yes it's fantastic to be able to search for 'gasmasks' across pics of physical items, videos and pdfs of ancient documents.
But they have a paid team of archivists doing all this - it's a rewarding but slow process.
From Joe public (retired) point of view they want something simpler and, to them, more natural - without the aggro.
I'm suggesting that JR - which I think has most of the component parts needed - add the possibility of using folders hierarchy for those who simply can't get their heads round it - or won't live that long to embrace another world.
'They aren't going to do it' isn't much of a bottom line is it!
-
Thanks again for reply.
I understand metadata fairly well - I have developed a 'custom schema' for our school to use with 'Bridge' as it gradually brings its 400year archive into searchable format using MS's Sharepoint and a filter from IFilter shop - and yes it's fantastic to be able to search for 'gasmasks' across pics of physical items, videos and pdfs of ancient documents.
But they have a paid team of archivists doing all this - it's a rewarding but slow process.
From Joe public (retired) point of view they want something simpler and, to them, more natural - without the aggro.
I'm suggesting that JR - which I think has most of the component parts needed - add the possibility of using folders hierarchy for those who simply can't get their heads round it - or won't live that long to embrace another world.
'They aren't going to do it' isn't much of a bottom line is it!
I’m just trying to help point you in the right direction here. Coming in with both guns drawn telling them they’re doing it all wrong isn’t going to get you anywhere. Some of us have been using JRiver for many years and have a pretty good feel for things they aren’t going to change. I think I’ll bow out and simply wish you well at this point as I’ve got better things to do with my free time.
One more thing - you could get a bit clever and split your path up into one tag per folder level (you can add new custom tags) then set up a Theater View view that goes through each level. There may be limits for how many levels you could support though. Lots of ways to get to what you want, including auto populated tags during an import. So step back and put some thought into it…
-
I note the syntax but somewhat dread the thought of having to indulge in all that stuff...
I got through moving from WMC to MC with no use of expressions. And I've managed just fine without them for years.
A much simpler method to start with is import your photos a folder at a time, and apply the "Album" tag during import. Then your "folders" will shows up in groups (like your example photo) in theater view without any other configuration needed.
-
Sorry greynolds if I upset you - thank you for your contribution anyway.
Thanks tzr916 - yes I see that could be a way forward - I'll give it a try.
Jim - the remark about living that long applied to me!
I was trying to contribute my experience so far as per the thread title WMC > JR
-
You can create a View and simply add a category of type "filepath", and set it to "\\nas\audio" or whatever your prefix is. The view will then show the folder hierarchy and you can drill down on it. No expression required.
I suppose you can do the same on the Theater view by doing a similar customization on the Theater View settings. The option is there, but I haven't tested it.
-
Yes, that's the way I did it also
-
peebee51 and zybex - thanks for replies.
So as I understand it you manually created albums equivalent to your folders and then imported to each at that level?
Can I ask, out of interest - did you then go on and tag all your contents, or did the album exercise meet your needs?
Also once imported I presume you had a 'flat' album - by which I mean that if your imported folder had sub-folders - then they were ignored and everything below the imported folder level was flattened to the same level?
Lastly I presume when you - or anyone else - 'say the wife' - created another folder - then you would have to manually make another album and do another manual import?
Thanks for your help.
-
So as I understand it you manually created albums equivalent to your folders and then imported to each at that level?
Uh, what? No. You run Import/AutoImport and all files are imported, usually with the correct Artist/Album tags. If not you may need to fix the tags of a few albums so that they are grouped correctly in MC. You can also do a "Fill properties from filename" which helps extract the album/artist/title/track#/etc from the path and filenames. EACH track needs to be tagged correctly for them to be seen as an Album - most of this process is automated and usually you only need to fix some stragglers. There are many different methods of importing and tagging, but you were asking about a breakdown per folder, not about importing/tagging.
Can I ask, out of interest - did you then go on and tag all your contents, or did the album exercise meet your needs?
Also once imported I presume you had a 'flat' album - by which I mean that if your imported folder had sub-folders - then they were ignored and everything below the imported folder level was flattened to the same level?
Lastly I presume when you - or anyone else - 'say the wife' - created another folder - then you would have to manually make another album and do another manual import?
Thanks for your help.
No. Tracks are imported, and if they already have some metadata in them that is also imported and used to group the files into albums, otherwise you need to manually tag them. MC also uses an online query to find out the metadata for unknown albums/tracks (I believe).
You seem to be confusing the folder layout with MC's grouping/folder/views. ALL tracks imported into MC can be viewed on a flat list (sorted by any metadata property), or grouped by ANY set of common metadata tags. You can have the traditional "album" grouping, or you can also group per year/decade, per artist, per country, per ANYTHING. You can create views with multiple levels that you can drilldown on, like Decade -> Artist -> Album. You can apply filters to show/hide only tracks or albums that fit some criteria, and sort the tracks by whatever order you like. All this works regardless of where the physical files are located on disk, it's all metadata-based. You need to make sure the imported tracks are tagged correctly, then you can view them in any way you like. Drilling down on the folder structure is just another view scheme that uses the filepath of each track to group them.
To handle new folders, just set up Auto-Import - it runs periodically and imports any new files into MC. Or run Auto-Import manually whenever you add files to your NAS.
-
I got through moving from WMC to MC with no use of expressions. And I've managed just fine without them for years.
A much simpler method to start with is import your photos a folder at a time, and apply the "Album" tag during import. Then your "folders" will shows up in groups (like your example photo) in theater view without any other configuration needed.
Thanks zybex I understand that regarding audio - but I was originally asking about photos - or for instance scanned pictures from photo albums where no relevant metadata exists, but are currently held in appropriately named UNC folders.
tzr916 refers in the quote.
Commercial audio is easier of course because it comes with at least some meta data in the first place.
Basically I want to group by folder names 'cos that's what I've got, I don't want to group by meta tags 'cos that's what I haven't got and would be too much effort to add to every item.
Would be good if in addition to existing groupings, JR could perform grouping by folder hierarchy - which still - most domestic users do.
Perhaps if tzr916 is still 'listening' he could respond to my earlier post?
-
I mentioned above how to accomplish the folder hierarchy drilldown view, that works for photos as well. Did you try that? Of course, the photos need to be imported first, but they don't need to have any tagging.
You can use the "Fill properties from filename" function to extract the relevant metadata from your current folder structure into the photo's tags. After importing, just select the files, right-click -> Library -> Fill Properties From Filename.
-
Thanks zybex
Just trying to get all this to happen automatically (and set as a default) when new folders appear on the remote stores.
What I don't want to have do is to keep exiting the Theatre view to 'coral' the contents.
Other than ideology, is there any reason folder hierarchy and naming can't be an option for those who want to live like that?
I write this in the context of this thread which, as I understand it is about helping WMC users ease onto JR as a replacement.
-
I mentioned above how to accomplish the folder hierarchy drilldown view, that works for photos as well. Did you try that? Of course, the photos need to be imported first, but they don't need to have any tagging.
I played around with that a bit in TheaterView yesterday. It's a bit tricky, as it always is, to figure out which type of item you need to add to the TheaterView configuration in order to be able to select the "filepath" category, but it does work. Obviously, it only works well if ALL photos are on the same drive and under a common top level folder as you can only specify one path to use, but it sounds like that will work in the above use case. It's certainly a good quick way to be able to view photos in something other than a flat view without having to do a bunch of tagging, come up with regular expressions to extract the folder structure, etc.
You can use the "Fill properties from filename" function to extract the relevant metadata from your current folder structure into the photo's tags. After importing, just select the files, right-click -> Library -> Fill Properties From Filename.
If the photo filenames are the typical filenames that come out of a camera, which I suspect is the case, will this do anything useful? Obviously with something like TV shows if the filenames are in the standard Series.EpisodeName,Sseason#Eepisode# format, it will do something useful, but I'm not sure it will for photos.
-
Thanks greynolds
Think you are right on all counts - especially as camera filenames (and scanned prints) have useless names and not much if any useful meta - the folder name is the only useful thing.
As per my reply - which crossed yours - much easier for those that want to live in this 'sub-optimal' way to have JR to accommodate folder hierarchy import and Theatre display - please.
Appreciate all who have contributed
-
You keep asking for this new feature - but as I said and greynolds confirmed, it DOES already do what you want. Have you tried it?
Obviously, it only works well if ALL photos are on the same drive and under a common top level folder as you can only specify one path to use, but it sounds like that will work in the above use case.
Just leave the "select path" box blank, then it will show all drives and source paths.
-
I'll try again
-
You keep asking for this new feature - but as I said and greynolds confirmed, it DOES already do what you want. Have you tried it?
Just leave the "select path" box blank, then it will show all drives and source paths.
Oh, OK. A bit of judicious filtering would probably be needed in that case to filter out some photos that one might not want to browse, depending on how things like album art (for example) are set up.
-
Oh, OK. A bit of judicious filtering would probably be needed in that case to filter out some photos that one might not want to browse, depending on how things like album art (for example) are set up.
The filtering can be done using "Set rules for file display..."
Suppose, you have some pictures you don't want to show, and they are inside a subfolder named "Ugly pictures never to be shown", then you can exclude them by adding a rule like:
"filename (path)" "does not contain" "Ugly pictures never to be shown".
-
Thanks Yaobing
I'm really trying to avoid all this 'coding'.
Again going back to this thread's purpose - WMC users never have to do any of these adjustments it just works OOB -
How difficult would it be to have the option 'Import respecting File Hierarchy'
Yes I know the balloon is about to go up - but what's wrong with an option - doesn't mean everyone has to do it that way - bit like having the choice of recording format.
Putting my hard hat on now! :)
-
@mcq
What greynolds, zybex, and I talked about is to set up a Theater View view. It is a simple process and once done, you should get your pictures displayed according to folders. Here is how:
In Standard View, click Tools > Options. Select "Theater View" in the left panel. Near the middle of the window you should see "Items to Show", a window showing a structured list. Scroll down the list and find Image and select it, and then click "Add..." button right next to the list. From the popup window select "Library Item". An item with name "New Library Item" is created. Rename the name to whatever you like. Below the Name field there is an empty box. Click "Add..." to the right of that box. In the resulting window select "File path" under Type. Click OK (without setting any actual path - this way you will get all your imported images displayed). Now you are back to the Options window. In the previously empty box right below the Name field, you now see "Location". Below the box you see a (long) button, that says "Set rules for file display...". Click that if you want to set up some rules (for example to exclude certain folders from being displayed), as I described in my previous post.
-
Sorry to interject again :P
There is no coding, it's really just about selecting the menu and dropdown options to produce what you want. I agree it's a bit complicated, but that's just because there are so many menus and customization options to chose from that it ends up requiring some time to get it working as you like. Maybe someone can post some screenshots to guide you.
There's also a Wiki with info and guides on how to customize your regular views and Theater views, some reading may help you too. I suggest you make a database backup (CTRL+SHIFT+B) and just start clicking on stuff to see what happens, that's also a valid learning method.
-
You know what? The view already exists in Theater View. It is called "Disk". It is just not the first item under Image. If you want, you can move it up the list and make it the first item under Image.
-
Are you pulling my leg after all this time?
How come nobody else knew - or said so?
Yaobing - I think you know I respect you considerably.
I will start again tomorrow
Happy Easter!
-
How come nobody else knew - or said so?
People who knew have not seen this thread. People who saw this thread did not need to show images the way you wanted to :)
Happy Easter!
Same to you, and to all!
-
You know what? The view already exists in Theater View. It is called "Disk".
AH! Brilliant :)
Yeah, not many people use that for sure, and even fewer of them roam these forums. The problem with having so many features added over time is that some of them just go out of use and even the developers forget they exist. It's just how it is.
Happy Easter!
-
Thanks Yaobing - exactly what we need - I see no mention of this on any Wiki - maybe I've missed it.
I'm formulating a few more questions regarding this layout for you as you seem to understand it.
Thanks again.
-
Hi Yaobing
I wonder if you can shed a bit more light on 'Disk' view now that I know about it!
1) I like 'Disk' view in Images as it simply shows the folders from the remote shares as I would wish to see them, but 'Disk' view in Videos shows a list - as per attached - where as I'd like it laid out as Images does - how do I do that please?
2) In Images 'Disk' view when I select a picture I have to go through a meta page which for me is useless - how do I go direct to the image FS?
3) Can I use any picture as a background to Theatre view - e.g. something less dark?
Many thanks
Don
-
Explore all the options in the top menu.
For your last question, no but go to Tools > Options > Theater View and try different themes.
-
2) In Images 'Disk' view when I select a picture I have to go through a meta page which for me is useless - how do I go direct to the image FS?
Just press Play button at any level in that view, fullscreen playback starts. Then use Left/Right arrow buttons to cycle through all images in the selected folder (including subfolders).
-
Thanks Yaobing - will try soon - any thoughts on 1) please?
-
Thanks Yaobing - will try soon - any thoughts on 1) please?
JimH sort of answered that first question... Hit the up arrow button to go to the top row of options in Theater View and then select More. Move over to Toggle List Style. Each time you select Toggle List Style, you will cycle through the available options, one of which should be the one you're looking for.
-
Thanks greynolds - that's the steer I was after.
-
Just press Play button at any level in that view, fullscreen playback starts. Then use Left/Right arrow buttons to cycle through all images in the selected folder (including subfolders).
When I get to this screen (attached) if I press OK I get the meta with the pic, then OK again (seems to be Show) I then get just the picture - so I'm trying to cut out the middle (meta) step.
If I press the Play button (>) from the same starting point, I do indeed get straight to the picture I want, but it's in Slideshow mode and then moves on through the rest of the folder - not what I want.
-
Is there a way to save all your settings, so that if I uninstall and rebuild then I can restore them - or even clone another machine in the same layout?
I've seen the 2009 forum about copying the registry key - but has anything more developed been provided since?
-
Backup saves your library and your settings. Restore restores them.
-
Been through File, Edit, View, Player, Tools, Help - didn't see Backup - can you tell me where to look please?
-
Please read the wiki or do a search when you have a question. A Google search, adding JRiver, works best.
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=jriver+backup
-
Got it - thanks to videos by Spike1000 - didn't realise you used Library function to back up System settings - so didn't look there.
Just transferred from W10 to W11 and seems good - thanks.
-
WTV recording is working now in MC31.
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/board,78.0.html
-
Excellent to see this progress - video and audio seem fine so far - though video bit rate seems different.
However can we sort the metadata side out; a stand alone wtv file should be just that, no folder or sidecars etc, just a single wtv file whose title is the program date-string.
To follow are pics (in two posts) which show WMC and JRMC31 recordings of the same show.
Things to note about MC WTV recording when viewed in File Explorer, when viewed in WMC and when editing in VRD- are -
In all cases the lack of WMC metadata within the JR file means some degree of incompatibility/data loss.
Can we get the metadata in the wtv files as per MS's spec and do away with folders and 'odd files' when wtv recording format is selected please?
My goal is to get MC and WMC reading and writing to the same folder with imperceptible difference between either when recording or playing back each others files.
Many thanks for efforts so far, very much appreciated.
-
Pics Pt 2
-
It's likely that the data is in the file but MC just isn't displaying what you expect. You can add custom tags in MC. The name must match exactly.
-
If the data is in the file then it's not in the right place and therefore doesn't fully conform to a wtv file.
Also that's no good for editors or File Explorer which look at the designated meta location.
Manual tagging is a no no for me - hopefully Yaobing can take a look.
-
Yes, but we don't arrange the file. We use Windows tools to encode. The data is probably there.
-
VideoRedo can generate a wtv file from any other format and allows the correct metadata (see WMC WTV Meta 4.png) to be added or edited in the right place in the file for WMC, WFE etc to read. I suggest the 'Tool' in question needs looking at to see why it is not putting the relevant data in the right place in the schema - or it is being wrongly tagged maybe?
Yaobing was looking at this earlier I think, so he may know the answer.
-
Metadata will be saved in wtv files in the next MC31 build.
-
Terrific - thanks very much
-
As an ex Windows Media Center user I intend switching to wtv once this version is stable. I want to use wtv as their tags should allow the files to be seamlessly moved from a local ssd to nas without any auto created sidecar files with the wrong path inside them causing problems once the files are moved. I can't record directly to nas 24/7 as I turn it off overnight and when the house is empty to save power
-
Since the feature is now there, I may do the same. I'm happy enough with the .ts format, but .wtv with tags stored within the files would be nice.
-
31.0.8 is available now: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135878.msg941279.html#msg941279
It has some tag changes.
-
Excellent Yaobing - well done.
I know it is still work in progress and it will be great to see the superfluous 'folder-per-recoding' go, now that the wtv file is complete with the program metadata.
Think I also noticed that 'Broadcast Date' may be being written in the wrong field - perhaps you could look at when time allows.
In case it helps, I found these two files on VRD's website posted by Marvin Miller, the full one shows all the wtv fields that he believes are in the MS spec, the second is a slimmed down version showing those that VRD implement.
-
There are a couple of WTV changes in 31.0.9, available here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=recent
-
Well done Yaobing in sorting the folder issue - much better.
There is still a date issue which I'll try and illustrate as follows.
I made two recordings today within 30 mins of each other of live original broadcasting - one on WMC one on MC - both on the same PC to the same folder.
The JR one has an erroneous 'Broadcast date' of 2008 which WMC thinks is the recorded date and therefore JR recordings are shown out of order when viewed in WMC Recorded TV (no picture).
But you can see the issue in the attached - you can also see that not all the fields WMC uses to display e.g. CH etc are filed in on the JR recording.
Again I know this is WiP - but thought the attached might help.
Come back if you need more.
-
There must be a difference in interpreting the date field. The 2008 date must have come from the EPG. We map EPG <date> element, or <Previously-shown date> element to MC's [Date] field. We then map that to "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime" attribute in the wtv file.
On the other hand, the current broadcast date time is mapped to MC's [Date Recorded]. That date seems to be shown correctly in the file properties.
Can you check your EPG data and see what dates are there?
-
Hi Yaobing - I'll try again - Just wrote a post out - added two zips both under file size and forum bombed out - I'll recompose!
Actually they were too big whoops!
-
Hi Yaobing
I'll send the two files by other means to avoid it going wrong again.
But in summary the xmltv file contains fields called '<episode-num system="original-air-date">2008-03-01</episode-num>'
This is not the original date that this particular program is being aired, but could be the original date this program title (series) was first used as it's followed by an /episode-num field?
In the mxf file (used by WMC) the field is called startAirdate="2008-03-01"
There is not an 'original-air-date' field in the mxf file
It's possible that WMC defaults internally to use the date of the end of recording for the Recording Date provided that there isn't an 'original-air-date' value.
P.S. As the EPG123 xml file has the extension .xmltv - could you include that value in the file selector in set-up please?
Thanks
-
One other thing Yaobing - maybe you can you follow the format of WMC's wtv file names as they are complete with date and time - and also use underscores - which may, just, matter.
WMC naming is 'BBC News_BBCNEWS_2023_05_10_16_30_50.wtv'
MC naming is 'BBC News 2023-05-10.wtv'
Whether this affects how WMC behaves I don't know.
-
Here is the issue:
<date>20080301</date>
That is from the xmltv file. I always treat this date as the date the show was created (for example the date a movie was made), or when a show was initially aired. Further more, as you mentioned, the mxf file contains originalAirdate="2008-03-01". Both can be interpreted the same way: the show was created originally on 2008-03-01. Literally the Microsoft tag that I found closest to this meaning is "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime". That is where I put that particular date.
Apparently, MS does not use "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime" to hold "original broadcast", but to hold "this broadcast". They must therefore put "2008-03-01" in another tag.
You can do this for me:
Import the BBC News recorded by WMC into MC, and check the MC log file for entries like the following:
0043254: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: GetAttributeCount returned 0x0, count=19
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 0: name len: 12, type 1, data len: 6
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/Language String value en
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 1: name len: 17, type 3, data len: 4
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/MediaIsRepeat Boolean value 1
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 2: name len: 18, type 4, data len: 8
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/WMRVEncodeTime QWORD value 133280424000000000
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 3: name len: 9, type 1, data len: 12
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/Genre String value Drama
0043255: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 4: name len: 17, type 1, data len: 32
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/WMRVProgramID String value EP00511651.0085
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 5: name len: 20, type 1, data len: 18
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/MediaStationName String value 5-2 COZI
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 6: name len: 23, type 1, data len: 168
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/SubTitleDescription String value The detective suspects Captain Stottlemeyer's girlfriend Linda could be a murderer.
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Attr 7: name len: 16, type 3, data len: 4
0043256: 1924: TV: JRWTVVideoInfo::Open: Name WM/MediaIsMovie Boolean value 0
etc.
You can post what you find. I hope to see 2008-03-01 somewhere, but it is also possible that they use a different format (other than string format), in which case it will be harder to identify.
Note 1: You need to turn on logging. It is under Help > Logging.
Note 2: If you don't see the logging lines as shown above, you should select the file, in MC's Standard View, right-click, and choose Library Tools > Update Library (from tags).
-
Will do - meanwhile here are two pics from JR of the News program that it recorded.
So with the xmltv file as the source and JR recording a wtv file, JR gets the date wrong too.
Well not so much wrong, but this xml field does not contain what we think it does/should.
I'll be back.
-
Ok - the issue is as you say.
I understand completely why you mapped as you have, but for some reason that field isn't what we would assume.
Two logs attached as per your Note 1) and 2) - no sign of 2008 in first log, but it is there in the second log after importing tags.
Couple of pics too to add a visual - note the imported one has a thumb from the actual program, WMC usefully adds a thumb from the opening shots automatically into the file, as opposed to channel logo which is a bit useless if you record multiple programs from the same channel.
I also note the WMC bit rate is over twice JR's for the same channel and tuner - why might that be do you think?
Then there's the import issue -
Using a common folder for recoding WMC wtvs and JR wtvs is great and the metadata is showing up helpfully - will be even better if you could use WMC's file name format please.
However whilst WMC is happy to simply count JR's wtv files as just that and show them in its Recorded TV list, JR doesn't show files it didn't record - hence having to import WMC recordings - do you think you can find a way for JR to do this on it's own?
Clearly we don't want JR trying to import its recordings - if you follow all that!
-
I will check the log files you posted. The reason I asked for the info is the realization that MS apparently does not want <OriginalAirDate> to be mapped to "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime>. To me these two seem very synonymous, but they don't seem to agree with me. So I wanted to see where they put different dates.
Another thing I would like to point out, is that most "BBC News" programs, if not all, are tagged with 2008-03-01 in the xmltv file. That is plain wrong. If I have to guess, this date probably was the date when BBC first produced/aired this program. But you can not use this for every current episode. For example, the xmltv file uses this for episode number:
<episode-num system="original-air-date">2008-03-01</episode-num>
What it means is the they use original-air-date to label an episode. As such they label all episodes of the show "2008-03-01". That is an EPG issue.
Regarding filename naming convention, I don't think MS's convention is better than mine. I think JRiver's filenames are clear, and easy to read. Too many underscores in the filename make it hard to read. You just need to get used to the new naming convention. Besides, it does not really matter how a file is named. You look at a show in MC, or an audio file, or an image file, you look at its Name field, Artist, Episode number, etc. etc. There is no need to look at the filename.
-
Regarding filename naming convention, I don't think MS's convention is better than mine. I think JRiver's filenames are clear, and easy to read. Too many underscores in the filename make it hard to reason. You just need to get used to the new naming convention. Besides, it does not really matter how a file is named. You look at a show in MC, or an audio file, or an image file, you look at its Name field, Artist, Episode number, etc. etc. There is no need to look at the filename.
Additionally, I don't think WMC makes use of any info from the filename for display, indexing, etc. So in addition to Yaobing's comments there's no usage benefit in changing the filenames. The ability to mix and match JRiver and WMC recordings is kind of cool, but I don't think JRiver should be expected to mimic what Microsoft does 100% here.
-
I don't think MS uses Original Air Date either.
I think I said earlier that it's a fairly useless reference possibly to a series start - I have other recordings with useless dates in this field.
I'm trying to discover more from another contact.
Didn't say your file name is better or worse - only that WMC may be using it as a reference - but it shouldn't - I don't like underscores either, but the time can be useful if sorting in File explorer - but no matter.
WMC Recorded TV does have a sort option of 'Original Date Broadcast' - see pic, there seems to be a subtle change of sort order from Date Recorded - but I can work out what's going on yet.
-
Additionally, I don't think WMC makes use of any info from the filename for display, indexing, etc. So in addition to Yaobing's comments there's no usage benefit in changing the filenames. The ability to mix and match JRiver and WMC recordings is kind of cool, but I don't think JRiver should be expected to mimic what Microsoft does 100% here.
I agree.
-
So do I - it was just a possible diagnostic test - anyway I think we almost have the answer now about this field and associated flags.
-
From the last log you provided, MS put "0001-01-01T00:00:00Z" in the "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime". It is a place holder string which should be ignored. I see nowhere they put the wrong date "2008-03-01" in any tags. So I will probably not put anything in "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime" (or put the place holder in it) for now. But I still don't know what to do with the <date> element in xmltv. It should be the date time when the same show was first aired (if the EPG provider does it correctly). I will also look into whether I am interpreting the QWORD datetime correctly. Let me know if you find anything interesting.
-
Will do - thanks for the hard work
-
Incrementally homing in - I think.
I have a program called Definitely Dusty - first broadcast in 07/2000 and repeated this month.
First pic shows the program detail page in WMC - it shows it as a Repeat, it shows this months date and the Original Air Date of 02/07/2000
Second pic shows WMC Recorded TV sorted by Date Recorded and shows this months repeat - see surrounding dates
Third pic shows WMC Recorded TV sorted by Original Date Broadcast and shows this months repeat recording listed against its first broadcast in 2000 - see surrounding dates
What I don't have is the xmltv of course because the program has gone and therefor the schedule has been updated.
Fourth pic however shows the WMC file has already been imported into JR - logging was off - so I don't have the log, but see JR screen where the Original Date Broadcast is shown in the Date field
This is beginning to suggest to me that it is the associated flag that matters here as I think it determines whether this 'original' date should be used or ignored - and probably determines whether it is labelled a Repeat.
I'll hunt further but it's a bit needle and haystack!
-
How about doing a Windows Explorer Properties, Details tab on this file? Does it show 02/07/2000 as Broadcast Date?
Maybe WMC is using both "Original Air Date" and IsRepeat, to determine whether to use the date. If the show is a re-run, use the date, otherwise use the date only if it matches the EPG datetime. That would explain the place holder date found for BBC News show because it was not a rerun yet the date is way before the actual air time.
-
Like so?
I did wonder if you wanted me to delete the imported version and re-import it as before with logging if that would help.
If so can you steer me through how to delete the original import - or shall I import it from another location
Let me know.
-
Like this (i.e. select the file in the Windows Explorer, and right-click and choose Properties):
(https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=135520.0;attach=47028;image)
Regarding getting log entries to show up, you don't need to remove and re-import. All you need to do is to do a "Library Tools\Update Library (from tags)"
-
Yes it is - file attached - it's the same field as in my previous pic - right hand column
JR Log 'update from tags) attached also shows
-
Yaobing - since BBC News is a 24 hour Rolling News Program where the "Main News" is usually broadcast once every hour, that could be the reason why you are seeing the same "date" for a number of "BBC News - News broadcasts" for any given day.
If I'm reading mcq's posting correctly - the file on his system is referring to the 16:30 (4:30 pm) broadcast of the "Daily News" and not to the 24 hour output from the BBC News Channel which could contain up to 24 occurances of the "Daily/Main News" component.
-
Hi EnglishTiger - I'm not sure which 'Reply No' or attached pic you're referring to, but both recordings are from the same BBC 24 hour rolling news CH 231.
I'm increasingly of the view that the "original-air-date" in xmltv and 'startAirdate' in mxf (as used by WMC) fields mean different things according to associated flags.
I suspect it is these flags that signal to WMC as to whether to show the program as a repeat or not - see the Definitely Dusty section above
Still digging.
-
Yes it is - file attached - it's the same field as in my previous pic - right hand column
I kept seeing only the left side of the image. Now I see the whole picture.
JR Log 'update from tags) attached also shows
The image and the log file confirm that the "Original Air date" is what it should mean, i.e. the date the show was originally aired and therefore I mapped it to the right tag ("WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime"). The only issue is when such date makes no sense as it appears in the guide data. I believe now Microsoft uses the date (and time) when it makes sense, and skips it (and uses a place holder date time) when it does not, as I mentioned in one of my previous post. Using the re-run flag to make such judgement is the only thing I can think of. So for the next build, I am going to do this:
If <date> in xmltv (which is "OriginalAirDate") does not match EPG date time, AND that re-run flag is FALSE, then we ignore the date time and use a place holder. Otherwise we map it to "WM/MediaOriginalBroadcastDateTime" tag.
-
Which field in the xmltv are you using to determine the program as 're-run'?
I can see the possibly useless field <previously-shown></previously-shown> which doesn't seem to get populated.
I can also see the fields <new /> and <live /> used on some programs where the date is old but it's a new program
-
Which field in the xmltv are you using to determine the program as 're-run'?
I can see the possibly useless field <previously-shown></previously-shown> which doesn't seem to get populated.
I can also see the fields <new /> and <live /> used on some programs where the date is old but it's a new program
<previously-shown> and <new> are both supported. These usually don't appear on the same program.
<live> is not supported in MC as we don't have a library field corresponding to it, I think. It's purpose is different from <previously-shown> and <new>, but of course a live show definitely is a new show. So I suppose if I have difficulty determining the re-run status I could look at this one too.
-
I think that you've cracked it - definitely think it needs that bit of logic to avoid erroneous implications of being a repeat.
Well done and thanks of course.
-
In case anyone is tearing their hair out with an intermittent audio delay when set to .wtv, this is a now known problem and Yaobing is working hard on the issue.
In the short term .ts and .jtv are still fine.
-
There indeed is an issue with live play (in time-shifting) if recording is set to wtv. The issue is that of audio-video synchronization. It might help if you turn off VideoClock.