INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 17 => Topic started by: jmone on November 11, 2011, 05:01:37 am
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There is a bit of a debate running in the Beta Team about recent threads asking for various Audiophile options. Let me say up front that I think many of these ideas and requests are nuts but..... IMO there is certainly an argument for those that want to minimise any processing at the PC level. Also please keep in mind I'm not a JR'er and have no influence on what features are or are not included in MC but that said, one concept I'm plugging for is similar to the "Pure Direct" mode on some AV Equipment.
MC already supports the best Audio engine in the PC world and Matt is a world renowned expert in this field (aka the dev of APE) and really knows his stuff... but I get the feeling that some Audiophiles may like a single button that turns on/off a "Pure Direct" mode where all possbile DSP and processing features are bypassed / disabled with the aim to provide:
"...for those that want the purest expression of the original audio as it was recorded, straight to your Receiver, DAC, or Analoge Amplifier by minimising all unnecessary processing..."
If you class yourself as an Audiophile time to speak up, is this something you want? Even if JR added such a feature to MC are you prepared to live with limitations that comes with disabling all the features of the current MC DSP as a "Pure Direct" mode can be very uncompromising to the HW you have?
Personally, I like this idea for the odd occasion I want to sit in the sweat spot and listen to 2.0 Audio that bypasses my default 5.1 mix in the DSP (normally I like to just crank it up and wander around)
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My name is Mark, I am an audiophile.
I read all the guides on how best to set up MC for perfect audio, which involved a lot of settings choices.
I want no processing, no DSP, nothing, nada - just a robust stream of the original data sent to my DAC for playback.
It seems that MC already offers this, but requires a bit of effort on the part of owners to set up (reading WIKI/options choices/etc). Would be nice if MC offered a PURE mode that simply bypasses everything and offers a 100% guaranteed clean stream free of any processing. If nothing else it would remove confusion.
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That would come handy... At least testing purposes...
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Seems like mark_h nailed my opinion, I could not have said it better myself...
+1
Rick
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The one advantage 'pure direct' modes have is a quick and easy way to switch between your preferred 'normal' processing configuration for general use and zero processing when desired for 'critical listening'.
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Interesting idea, Jmone
But doesn't MC already do this with the right settings? How would the "Pure Direct" differ from using WASAPI- Event Syle, without DSP, without internal volume control?
Some hardware, FWIW, require manipulation of the data stream. For example, my DAC requires a 24-bit input, so a Pure Direct setting would of limited use with my hardware playing redbook CDs. Of course, it's just adding zeros, but my point is there isn't really a one-size-fits all way to do this.
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I'm not opposed to this idea, but I want to make something clear.
There is not hidden audio processing in Media Center. Media Center is effectively in "Pure Direct" mode always, unless you turn on a DSP.
DSP Studio shows a full snapshot of everything being applied. The only other thing to think about is volume, if you use it.
I'm hoping to make DSP Studio easier to see and find in v17.
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There is not hidden audio processing in Media Center. Media Center is effectively in "Pure Direct" mode always, unless you turn on a DSP.
Matt, that is understood. But it took quite a bit of reading (on my part at least) to understand this point. A "PURE" mode could perhaps grey out all options that alter the original data stream, and in my opinion should also lock volume at 100%
Down on the Player menu, along with DSP and Playback options have a PURE option available - selecting it turns off all DSP and locks volume. Perhaps have a PURE checkbox in the DSP studio itself too. No need to faff about turning off twenty options to achieve pure sound - just one selection and you're good to go.
PURE is not a great name though - what does it mean if you aren't aware of this discussion..?
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I like the idea of more options but there are definitely two type of users at least.. (Audiophiles & everybody else)
Maybe MC should have two modes, basic & advanced.
In basic all the overly complicated stuff wouldn't even show up in the options thus allowing less clutter for the users who don't really care about advanced options but at the same time still cater for audiophiles..
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From reading various forums here are some things that I think would appeal to those wanting a Pure Direct mode (you could call it Audiophile Audio mode):
- The ability to maximum memory use for memory playback. I currently have songs that won't play with the play from memory option. However, I have plenty of memory for the song available.
- Turns off the video when playback starts and doesn't turn it back on until there is a Stop.
- Shuts down Windows processes that use the hard drive. This would turn off indexing or anything else that could cause hard drive activity.
- Makes the player display Audio only features. The tree or Theater View only display Audio and Playlists.
- JRiver won't check for updates, won't access YADB, or do anything else over the internet.
- It won't allow for Direct Sound as an output method.
- Track switching, Stop, or Seek is gapless with no cross-fading
- You could even have the JRiver Audiophile Audio window take exclusive focus and not allow switching to other programs. This helps people think that this mode is serious about only playing audio.
You could say that "JRiver offers an Audiophile Audio mode that minimizes video, disk, and internet activity to provide the highest quality of sound output. Audio output bypass the Windows mixer and takes exclusive control our your audio device."
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From reading various forums here are some things that I think would appeal to those wanting a Pure Direct mode (you could call it Audiophile Audio mode):
- The ability to maximum memory use for memory playback. I currently have songs that won't play with the play from memory option. However, I have plenty of memory for the song available. Also, it always uses
- Turns off the video when playback starts and doesn't turn it back on until there is a Stop.
- Shuts down Windows processes that use the hard drive. This would turn off indexing or anything else that could cause hard drive activity.
- Makes the player display Audio only features. The tree or Theater View only display Audio and Playlists.
- JRiver won't check for updates, won't access YADB, or do anything else over the internet.
- It won't allow for Direct Sound as an output method.
- Track switching, Stop, or Seek is gapless with no cross-fading
- You could even have the JRiver Audiophile Audio window take exclusive focus and not allow switching to other programs. This helps people think that this mode is serious about only playing audio.
You could say that "JRiver offers an Audiophile Audio mode that minimizes video, disk, and internet activity to provide the highest quality of sound output. Audio output bypass the Windows mixer and takes exclusive control our your audio device."
+100 on that. That would be very, very nice.
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I'm hoping to make DSP Studio easier to see and find in v17.
You can make it easier to find, you can add it to the top or bottom of MC, all you'd have to do is make this appear as default in the next build..
(http://thumbnails51.imagebam.com/15873/d830b6158729396.jpg) (http://www.imagebam.com/image/d830b6158729396)
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It would be nice to separate output format from the DSP stuff. It doesn't seem obvious to me that it would be there. (Also seems like a good candidate for a wizard and test button... Which for all I know it has. Can't see half of this. The skin I'm using might be a bit dark....)
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No, we do not need snake-oil features to make people feel better about their audio.
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From reading various forums here are some things that I think would appeal to those wanting a Pure Direct mode (you could call it Audiophile Audio mode):
- The ability to maximum memory use for memory playback. I currently have songs that won't play with the play from memory option. However, I have plenty of memory for the song available. Also, it always uses
- Turns off the video when playback starts and doesn't turn it back on until there is a Stop.
- Shuts down Windows processes that use the hard drive. This would turn off indexing or anything else that could cause hard drive activity.
- Makes the player display Audio only features. The tree or Theater View only display Audio and Playlists.
- JRiver won't check for updates, won't access YADB, or do anything else over the internet.
- It won't allow for Direct Sound as an output method.
- Track switching, Stop, or Seek is gapless with no cross-fading
- You could even have the JRiver Audiophile Audio window take exclusive focus and not allow switching to other programs. This helps people think that this mode is serious about only playing audio.
You could say that "JRiver offers an Audiophile Audio mode that minimizes video, disk, and internet activity to provide the highest quality of sound output. Audio output bypass the Windows mixer and takes exclusive control our your audio device."
I certainly don't want MC screwing with anything on my PC. If any person believes doing the above will help, they can setup their PC accordingly.
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I certainly don't want MC screwing with anything on my PC. If any person believes doing the above will help, they can setup their PC accordingly.
It wouldn't be a default setting/mode. If you dont think the above will help you can not set-up MC accordingly.
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...If any person believes doing the above will help...
I would support all this if those wanting it could state what they actually think it would change.
I performed a test similar to that cited earlier...setting up a parametric EQ containing a 75dB cut followed by 75dB gain, and switching this combo in and out via the checkbox to the left of the list of various modules. Two colleagues and I were listening on our studio monitor setup (decent big ones, not silly little "home studio" stuff). It was definitely in circuit which I proved by briefly setting the gain section to left channel only.
The difference between in and out was entirely inaudible. Unless anyone can demonstrate otherwise, I'm certain that when MC is set not to change anything, it isn't!
That said, I feel that an overall DSP in/out toggle in a position of front-panel prominence would be quite useful - I agree with an earlier poster that this ought not include the output bit-depth setting, which is more part of "playback options" than DSP, in my view.
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It wouldn't be a default setting/mode. If you dont think the above will help you can not set-up MC accordingly.
I don't think it should be an option at all, it's just asking for trouble. Going out of your way to manually make these type of tweaks guarantees understanding the implications and how to roll them back. Leave MC as the player.
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I think this is a great idea. I would also like a hotkey to toggle DSP and an indicator to show current state. Maybe even hotkeys to DSP "presets".
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I would support all this if those wanting it could state what they actually think it would change.
Their perception of what's coming out of the wires, through the air and into their ears?
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I don't think it should be an option at all, it's just asking for trouble. Going out of your way to manually make these type of tweaks guarantees understanding the implications and how to roll them back. Leave MC as the player.
Most of everything that is being discussed is already an option in MC. I think people are asking for a global setting (on/off) in which MC would ensure:
- ALL DSPs are off
- Not EQs
- Gapless playback
- Volume at 100%
- Play From Memory
etc.....
Basically, there could be an "audiophile mode" which auto corrects any of those types of settings when "on". When "off" it would default to those settings the user has already configured in other ways.
Sure you could probably manually select every relevant setting. But why would anyone resist a "audiophile mode", whether you think it is snake oil or not.
That would be like me opposing red october because I dont use MC for video.
-Patrick
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I think Dr Tone is referring to my suggestion of actually shutting down some Windows processes and not settings that are already in JRiver.
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I think Dr Tone is referring to my suggestion of actually shutting down some Windows processes and not settings that are already in JRiver.
You can use iobit game booster to do that (it's freeware)...
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You can use iobit game booster to that (freeware)...
Fidelizer is also a nice free program for shutting down services.
I was only suggesting shutting down a service or two that might cause disk activity so that JRiver could use "no disk activity" as a feature of their Pure Direct mode. I think it is best to leave most things like that to another program.
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I was only suggesting shutting down a service or two that might cause disk activity so that JRiver could use "no disk activity" as a feature of their Pure Direct mode
Please would somebody explain to me what that would actually achieve???
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Please would somebody explain to me what that would actually achieve???
Nothing for you. Dont worry about it.
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pure direct, yes definitely. audiophile options much appreciated, for the believers...
Pure Direct mode should be separate from video playback, as 2channel audiophiles will still need JRSS downmix.
maybe if pure direct switches back automatically after watching a video, ready for listening to audio files.
Pure direct should include
No DSP
No clip protection
No volume
Bypass internal 64bit floating point
Basically removing everything in the path between decoded data straight to the hardware.
The only thing that will be needed, the ability to still select the outputs wordlength (i.e.) 24bit, as a lot of USB audio devices only work with 24bit.
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Please would somebody explain to me what that would actually achieve???
On my vastly underpowered netbook turning off things like auto updates and MSE tends to take care of any unwanted skipping. And, yeah, I get that even with an async usb dac and my buffer set to 3 weeks. On my desktop I could be batch processing a thousand raw files in lightroom and it wouldn't skip.
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The only thing that will be needed, the ability to still select the outputs wordlength (i.e.) 24bit, as a lot of USB audio devices only work with 24bit.
So you want an option where 16 Bit source is just padded to 24 Bit for compatibility reasons (eg no conversion is done).
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I know that hard drive activity can cause spikes or noise in the lines on some PC or laptops. I heave heard this on other PC forums that they hear d click or a very short burst of noise in the audio usually on the analog outputs but sometimes the digital signal will hiccup a bit.
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So you want an option where 16 Bit source is just padded to 24 Bit for compatibility reasons (eg no conversion is done).
yes, in DSP/Output Format/Bit Depth, this is still needed to be selectable, as a lot of USB dac, when data is streamed by wasapi, wasapi event or ks, need a 24bit stream to work.
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Please would somebody explain to me what that would actually achieve???
I used to have a noisy drive that irritated me to no end when listening to music. Some might think it would also eliminate the need for this device (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100354.0). Finally, Onkyo's Pure Direct mode shuts off circuits not need in the receiver for audio playback. I'm just suggesting giving the JRiver user a similar type option. Whether it has an affect on the sound quality would be put in the hands/ears of the listener.
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AFAIK, the current MC DSP options actually converts say a 16-bit stream to 24-bit etc so there is data carried by all 24-Bits. Another approach that does not require any conversion is to just PAD the 16 bit stream out to 24-bit so such a method does not convert the data at all, it keeps the first 16-bits identical then just pads it out with blanks to 24-bit.
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Seems like mark_h nailed my opinion, I could not have said it better myself...
+1
Rick
++1
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I'm hoping to make DSP Studio easier to see and find in v17.
If nothing else, I think THIS is a good idea.
I'm okay with the Pure Direct mode too. One little thing, though... jmone, I know that the option on your Yamaha "inspired" you for this concept. Just to check, is theirs called Pure Direct (TM)? Because if so, we need a different name. I'm looking at my Yammie, but I don't think I have that feature. I'm not really willing to mess with it much though, because it is currently working perfectly, and having to get the book out would make glynor sad.
Does give us a good target for a clever name though. ;)
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Yup - I only used the "Pure Direct" moniker as that is how it was referred to in by last two Yami receivers I had more than what it should (or should not) be called in MC. Anyway, in checking their "trademarks" page in the manual it lists many things but not the term "Pure Direct". The term I think is also used by other mfr like Denon.
Edit: Pure Direct is hard to miss on the Yami models I have had as there is a dedicated button on the Front of the Receiver and also the RC for it.
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I used to have a noisy drive that irritated me to no end when listening to music
It's worth bearing in mind that a lot of modern drives "exercise" periodically even without any data access being made by the host system.
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Yup - I only used the "Pure Direct" moniker as that is how it was referred to in by last two Yami receivers I had more than what it should (or should not) be called in MC. Anyway, in checking their "trademarks" page in the manual it lists many things but not the term "Pure Direct". The term I think is also used by other mfr like Denon.
Edit: Pure Direct is hard to miss on the Yami models I have had as there is a dedicated button on the Front of the Receiver and also the RC for it.
Onkyo calls it "Pure Audio". I'm sure everyonr has their own name for it. May be use can use "Direct Audio".
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Yup - I only used the "Pure Direct" moniker as that is how it was referred to in by last two Yami receivers I had more than what it should (or should not) be called in MC. Anyway, in checking their "trademarks" page in the manual it lists many things but not the term "Pure Direct". The term I think is also used by other mfr like Denon.
Edit: Pure Direct is hard to miss on the Yami models I have had as there is a dedicated button on the Front of the Receiver and also the RC for it.
They don't have a trade mark on that name. I have a Marantz, they also use the Pure Direct name. There's other names that refer to this as well ie. "HOG MODE" or "Audio Device exclusive access mode" these names are used by other players to do the same thing we are talking about. If the audio can go straight to the DAC without being touched or messed with in anyway - that would be great. I think a HOG MODE or Direct Mode would be great for the Audiophiles.
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The only thing that will be needed, the ability to still select the outputs wordlength (i.e.) 24bit, as a lot of USB audio devices only work with 24bit.
You have mentioned this a few times now. What DACs wont accept standard old red book files? I dont know of any USB DAC with hires support only. What DACs are you talking about?
-patrick
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AFAICT, what's actually at issue here is a UI button to quickly switch between settings for flat playback of music audio, versus settings that would likely be more DSP-enhanced for movie audio.
IMO, to suggest that MC needs a new audio "mode" confuses the issue, at best. A quick search of audiophile websites reviewing MC will support the purity of MC's audio playback, when so configured. I too would like to see a button to goose any DSP settings back to flat on demand; a second press of the same button would restore the settings to previous state.
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I voted 'no', but after closer reading of the thread I see that what is being asked for is a 'shortcut' to set existing options which would be fine. However rather than making this specific for just one group of users, such as 'audiophiles', I suggest there be a way for users to save/name the settings and have this saved configuration accessible without having to go into settings. This would provide functionality for more than just audiophiles.
For instance, for one of my computers it would be nice to have a shortcut/toggle to quickly switch from my normal 4 speaker mode to having audio downmixed to 2 channels and audio output only from the back speakers - so for this I would create and save my 'normal' configuration and another for just the back 2 channels, then I could invoke one or the other as needed without going into options/settings. 'Audiophiles' could create/save setting configurations with the values suggested in this thread and then be able to switch as needed.
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Bill, good point.
Matt has spent a ton of effort to introduce many of the DSP functions we take for granted on receivers and integrate them into MC on the PC. These receivers however let users define and toggle between not only a "Pure Direct" mode but also between DSP Presets. Imagine in MC if you could define multiple DSP Presets (plus a "Pure Direct") then:
- Manually switch between them (including with your with your RC in Theater view)
- Assign different DSP Presets by Media/Sub Media Type (eg Audio = Pure Direct, Video = DSP1, TV = DSP2 etc)
- even potentially assign different DSP Presets by track (eg like you can with Auto EQ already)
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Does give us a good target for a clever name though. ;)
The Oh-dear-file setting?
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Bill, good point.
Matt has spent a ton of effort to introduce many of the DSP functions we take for granted on receivers and integrate them into MC on the PC. These receivers however let users define and toggle between not only a "Pure Direct" mode but also between DSP Presets. Imagine in MC if you could define multiple DSP Presets (plus a "Pure Direct") then:
- Manually switch between them (including with your with your RC in Theater view)
- Assign different DSP Presets by Media/Sub Media Type (eg Audio = Pure Direct, Video = DSP1, TV = DSP2 etc)
- even potentially assign different DSP Presets by track (eg like you can with Auto EQ already)
I was just about to post something like this! My Yamaha receiver had four preset 'scenes' that you could predefine and quickly toggle betwee. It would be awesome for everyone if we could do something similar - audiophiles could turn on a 24 Carat pure mode, and others could choose various modes of JRSS, virtual subwoofer etc. etc. It would need to be selectable in OSD mode, even though 24 Carat mode might turn off video once selected (which we have to be careful about since that could screw up some HDMI receivers with their handshake).
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I currently accomplish most of this using two zones (switchable with my Harmony One remote).
One mode sets DSP Studio for the setting appropriate for multichannel listening such as sample rates and a channel format my DAC can accept.
My other mode turns off everything in DSP Studio for two channel listening.
They both use my HDMI output but could use different outputs (or even different DAC's if desired).
One cool thing about doing it this way is that both zones have a play list associated with it, so when I choose my 'Multi-Channel HDMI' zone it loads my high-res multichannel music. When I select my 'Stereo HDMI' zone it disables all processing in DSP Studio and loads my two channel play list.
Like others have mentioned, Media Center can already accomplish most things being requested.
I still feel a single button 'mode' could be useful for simple access to a feature audiophiles new to MC could just push, and play...
Rick
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As Rick and others have pointed out, most of this is there it is just packaging and the use of the logic in Zones to hold DSP presets is a good idea.
Out of interest how did you assign the change zone commands to the Harmony One?
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Out of interest how did you assign the change zone commands to the Harmony One?
In MC you can learn the command. Just use an unused button on the remote .. like one of the colored ones..
Ken
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Having MC manipulate stuff in the operating system is a bad, BAD idea. A bug in MC could then give you a BSOD or even screw up the operating system to the point of having to reinstall it all. BAD idea!
I don't really see the point of a pure direct mode when you can just set up a pure direct zone. An audiophile who is a moron when it comes to fiddling with and tweaking settings to get the best sound quality would never ever use a computer to play audio in the first place or would have someone setup and tweak the computer for him/her.
It would be nice to separate output format from the DSP stuff.
No, it wouldn't. It needs to be there so you can choose whether to apply the processing in Output format before or after the other DSP filters/options.
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Having MC manipulate stuff in the operating system is a bad, BAD idea. A bug in MC could then give you a BSOD or even screw up the operating system to the point of having to reinstall it all. BAD idea!
I don't really see the point of a pure direct mode when you can just set up a pure direct zone. An audiophile who is a moron when it comes to fiddling with and tweaking settings to get the best sound quality would never ever use a computer to play audio in the first place or would have someone setup and tweak the computer for him/her.
No, it wouldn't. It needs to be there so you can choose whether to apply the processing in Output format before or after the other DSP filters/options.
They could throw away the rest of the DSP for all I care.
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Having MC manipulate stuff in the operating system is a bad, BAD idea. A bug in MC could then give you a BSOD or even screw up the operating system to the point of having to reinstall it all. BAD idea!
I don't really see the point of a pure direct mode when you can just set up a pure direct zone. An audiophile who is a moron when it comes to fiddling with and tweaking settings to get the best sound quality would never ever use a computer to play audio in the first place or would have someone setup and tweak the computer for him/her.
No, it wouldn't. It needs to be there so you can choose whether to apply the processing in Output format before or after the other DSP filters/options.
Chillax..... we all use MC differently.
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As the snake-oil brigade seem to be out to derail this thread I think it's worth restating that we audiophiles understand that MC already provides a pure data stream IF setup correctly. And that any new "audiophile mode" WOULD NOT improve the sound over what is already available. But what a "PURE" mode option would do would be to add clarity to MC for all users and allow a simple shortcut to getting a completely pure output mode without having to drill through lots of menus double checking various options are set correctly. *That* seems worthwhile...
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I would find it most useful to set the options for file type. Just set it ...and forget it....
Ken
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Chillax..... we all use MC differently.
True. I'm not saying I object to a pure direct button/hotkey or whatever, I'm just saying it's already there through the use of zones. Each zone can have it's own settings. I use this to switch between 2.0 and 7.1 and for example.
New tweaks to MC to increase sound quality are always welcome, I guess we all can agree on that. Like fixing the memory issue mojave mentions in post #9.
Just don't start messing with Windows services etc. cause that's asking for trouble. A better idea would be to add a Wiki howto page on setting up Windows for best possible sound quality.
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I would find it most useful to set the options for file type. Just set it ...and forget it....
Ken
And for us movie-audiophiles, change the filter selection so that we can use different decoders for, say, DTS-HD and Dolby TrueHD within an MKV file. Make the filter selection per codec, not per file extension.
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They could throw away the rest of the DSP for all I care.
Now, THAT would be a bad idea. Even if I consider myself an audiophile, I also spend some of my time not being that, i.e. have different needs and practical approaches to things. MC currently satisfies those needs!
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I would like to see the same features and settings like Jplay (http://jplay.eu/), SAP (http://andy-audioplayer.blogspot.com/2011/07/stealthaudioplayer-stage-is-set.html) and PlayPcmWin (http://code.google.com/p/bitspersampleconv2/wiki/PlayPcmWinEn).
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... Make the filter selection per codec, not per file extension.
That would be absolutely great.
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Well, apparently I've been upgraded to the "Snake Oil Brigade" for asserting exactly what Mark_h said in his previous post.
FWIW, "we audiophiles" includes a number of members who do not understand that MC outputs unaltered audio when configured to do so. In fact, this thread was in response to that very issue, and when JRiver (I'm not affiliated, I didn't even get a discount on software) tried to point this out, they were attacked for being "unresponsive" to the customer.
So mark_h, please tone down the rhetoric, and contribute your knowledge constructively. A toggle button to clear ALL dsp setting is a GREAT idea, as I said previously, and I hope it gets implemented.
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My preference is not to not do it if we're talking about a button that is just a toggle for 'pure mode'. IMO the GUI already has a lot going on and I'm not sure that something of such a limited scope for such a small group of folks is justified. But if the toggle is for 'presets' where the user can select previously saved user-created setting configurations (which could include pure mode, perhaps out-of-box) this functionality would be useful to more folks. Just IMO of course :)
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My name is Mark, I am an audiophile.
I read all the guides on how best to set up MC for perfect audio, which involved a lot of settings choices.
I want no processing, no DSP, nothing, nada - just a robust stream of the original data sent to my DAC for playback.
It seems that MC already offers this, but requires a bit of effort on the part of owners to set up (reading WIKI/options choices/etc). Would be nice if MC offered a PURE mode that simply bypasses everything and offers a 100% guaranteed clean stream free of any processing. If nothing else it would remove confusion.
What Mark said!!!
I want my Meitner DAC doing all the processing.
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I would be fine with a detailed entry in the Wiki describing how to set up MC for the best audiophile performance. Or perhaps a sticky in the thread for each version.
Per mojove above, how about an option to use more memory when playing from memory? I could easily allocate 1G to memory play and I am sure people with bigger systems could use even more.
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From reading various forums here are some things that I think would appeal to those wanting a Pure Direct mode (you could call it Audiophile Audio mode):
- The ability to maximum memory use for memory playback. I currently have songs that won't play with the play from memory option. However, I have plenty of memory for the song available.
- Turns off the video when playback starts and doesn't turn it back on until there is a Stop.
- Shuts down Windows processes that use the hard drive. This would turn off indexing or anything else that could cause hard drive activity.
- Makes the player display Audio only features. The tree or Theater View only display Audio and Playlists.
- JRiver won't check for updates, won't access YADB, or do anything else over the internet.
- It won't allow for Direct Sound as an output method.
- Track switching, Stop, or Seek is gapless with no cross-fading
- You could even have the JRiver Audiophile Audio window take exclusive focus and not allow switching to other programs. This helps people think that this mode is serious about only playing audio.
You could say that "JRiver offers an Audiophile Audio mode that minimizes video, disk, and internet activity to provide the highest quality of sound output. Audio output bypass the Windows mixer and takes exclusive control our your audio device."
Above highlighted features are especially welcome, also being that they're not available options as is; these would be very worthwhile to maximize sound quality!
Another playback program, JPLAY, has inspired me in this minimalist "clearing the road" direction, and judged by the trial version their efforts in this regard are indeed audible - most pronounced when using their ace-feature, "Hibernation Mode." There's no doubt that this feature gives a better resoluted, more organic, free flowing, and natural sonic presentation than J River MC16/17 is capable of, though it comes at a great price in cutting one off from any access to the program/PC during playback.
If J River could somehow make above features(posted by mojave) as well as others come into play, so to speak, without losing the very basic access to ones music library, then they would be most cherised by me.
Great thread initiative, jmone!
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I love MC as a system to stream a large quantity of different digital media to different devices around the house (or beyond). Unfortunatly, not all of that digital media is of the same quality, and whilst I am all for the ifra of getting as close to the original as possible, sometimes you just have to tweak.
I really want to listen to music - I listen to vinyl, so sorry to say, MC can't replace the pleasure associated with putting an LP on a record deck.
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Keeping 2channel audio streams out of the JRSS matrix. Watching videos i use 'JRSS 2.0 surround', but disable it by changing it back to 'source number of channels' when listening to 2channel audio. that would be another good feature for the 'audio direct' button.
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Well, apparently I've been upgraded to the "Snake Oil Brigade" for asserting exactly what Mark_h said in his previous post.
So mark_h, please tone down the rhetoric, and contribute your knowledge constructively.
I apologise that you (incorrectly) felt I was targeting you in my "snake oil brigade" comment.
What I was (apparently unsuccessfully) trying to do was to draw a line at that point in the thread by succinctly restating what we already know to be the current state of MC's support for pure audio, so that the thread could stay focussed on the topic.
Again, I apologise for you misunderstanding my intent.
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Keeping 2channel audio streams out of the JRSS matrix. Watching videos i use 'JRSS 2.0 surround', but disable it by changing it back to 'source number of channels' when listening to 2channel audio. that would be another good feature for the 'audio direct' button.
From the note on the dialog 'No changes are made if the same number of channels is selected as the input.'
All Output Format settings make no changes when the input matches the selected output.
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for the pure direct button, to be able also turn off the 'Output Format' DSP when listening to music, but auto turn on for video (as need jrss for 2 ch mix down), and auto turn off again for music.
also an idea... have what DSP is on (including output) displayed in the display at the top of MC (the programmable display that is shown in normal view with the spectrum analyser, time, artist, track etc etc...) would find this useful than having to check DSP rack.
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for the pure direct button, to be able also turn off the 'Output Format' DSP when listening to music, but auto turn on for video (as need jrss for 2 ch mix down), and auto turn off again for music.
also an idea... have what DSP is on (including output) displayed in the display at the top of MC (the programmable display that is shown in normal view with the spectrum analyser, time, artist, track etc etc...) would find this useful than having to check DSP rack.
This is quite easily done using zones with different DSP settings.
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This is quite easily done using zones with different DSP settings.
just use one zone here. creating zones adds complication, remembering to switch zones for either music or video. . very good idea though :)
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just use one zone here. creating zones adds complication, remembering to switch zones for either music or video. . very good idea though :)
Well, any different audio settings for different purposes would inevitably add complexity, regardless of the name of the button...
The name of the zone is seen in the playback window. I have named my zones "Music 2.0 16/44.1", "Movie 7.1 24/48" etc. This way I quite easily can see the audio setup currently in use. And of course zones can be used to create different configs for all options, not only audio.
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An audiophile who is a moron when it comes to fiddling with and tweaking settings to get the best sound quality would never ever use a computer to play audio in the first place or would have someone setup and tweak the computer for him/h
R
Computers are predominantly becoming the center piece for hi res playback and can offer better sound quality than standalone units. Heck, even your most hi end playback equipment is nothing more than a pc anyway. That being said I want the best stream available to go from MC to my DAC. If having a single button that will accomplish this can be put into a config menu then I'm all for it. I mean why not? Because it can clutter the screen? Really? 1 button? Or because it can already be done with a huge amount of tweaking? That's asking for trouble. Having a PURE button is no different than having a TONE defeat button on a stereo. It makes it a single click fool proof way to get the best stream out of MC. I'm all for improving any part of MC that will result in a purer and closer to audiphile playback. I think one thing that everyone can agree on is that trying to achieve this is something we want. Everyone uses MC differently and having the various tools to let all of us achieve this is most certainly welcome by me.
Jimmy
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Computers are predominantly becoming the center piece for hi res playback and can offer better sound quality than standalone units. Heck, even your most hi end playback equipment is nothing more than a pc anyway. That being said I want the best stream available to go from MC to my DAC. If having a single button that will accomplish this can be put into a config menu then I'm all for it. I mean why not? Because it can clutter the screen? Really? 1 button? Or because it can already be done with a huge amount of tweaking? That's asking for trouble. Having a PURE button is no different than having a TONE defeat button on a stereo. It makes it a single click fool proof way to get the best stream out of MC. I'm all for improving any part of MC that will result in a purer and closer to audiphile playback. I think one thing that everyone can agree on is that trying to achieve this is something we want. Everyone uses MC differently and having the various tools to let all of us achieve this is most certainly welcome by me.
Jimmy
It isn't a huge amount of tweaking. You'll have to set your output bit depth for your device in either mode. If you can find the DSP for that you're golden. (And you would have found the DSP already in order to turn it on so that MC can totally hose your sound path...)
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It isn't a huge amount of tweaking. You'll have to set your output bit depth for your device in either mode. If you can find the DSP for that you're golden. (And you would have found the DSP already in order to turn it on so that MC can totally hose your sound path...)
Why do you resist an easy way to do this? What do you fear it will ruin for you? Are you worried you might hit the button and lose your EQ?
It seems like you are obtusely arguing for the sake of it.
I can understand people wanting it. I can also understand the developers not caring to implement it. No big deal either way.
But I dont get why you would oppose it if only to be contrary. What do you lose if it exists?
Curious,
Patrick
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Why do you resist an easy way to do this? What do you fear it will ruin for you? Are you worried you might hit the button and lose your EQ?
It seems like you are obtusely arguing for the sake of it.
I can understand people wanting it. I can also understand the developers not caring to implement it. No big deal either way.
But I dont get why you would oppose it if only to be contrary. What do you lose if it exists?
Curious,
Patrick
It seems like you haven't actually read anything I've posted.
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Yeah. I just don't understand why someone would be so tiffed if MC had a DIRECT button. It's no big deal for users who are familiar with the tweaking part of it, but it can be pretty daunting for a new user or someone just looking for a quick and easy set up. If you don't want to use it, no problem - tweak awy. If you do want to use it then there it is - just push it. Either way, the interface won't be anymore clutterd by having 1 extra button, and the interface won't be that much more clunkier than it is now. I understand some people are so passionate about MC but the developers asked us to provide feedback and feature requests on this beta MC17, let's not start fighting with each other and belittleing each other's ideas. Let's provide the feedback, requests, and comments, and let the Dev team decide what should be implemented in the final version.
Jimmy
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a button will be very valuable to have in clear view on front of MC knowing that ALL DSP/Output Formatting/Processing is turned off when pressed. I like the digital stream clean and direct for music playing.
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A new feature has been added to MC regarding the Audio Path - discussion on this is at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=68182.0
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I think your new moniker will be Ben Franklin.