INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 14 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: keither on April 17, 2009, 09:49:21 pm
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Hey there.
So I've been using MC for ages to DJ dances. I don't need to do fancy things like beat matching and looping, and I don't really believe that that sort of behavior is really appropriate for MC, however there are some pretty simple extensions that would make MC work a LOT better for me as a DJ.
1) Stop after every file.
I was really excited when the "Stop After Current File" option got added. It gave me a little more control over how I moved from song to song in my playlist, or if I had to stop after a song to make an announcement, this gave me the way. However, on occasion, I'd like the player to stop after each track. This is the equivalent of "single" mode on a DJ CD player.
Added to build 13.0.160 as a Repeat-Mode option! (Player | Repeat | Stop After Each Item)
2) Multiple live instances of the MC window.
Per the DJ thread here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=50518.msg345477#msg345477) you can use multiple instances of MC to be able to interact with multiple zones separately. The unfortunate side effect of multiple instances of MC open is that any beyond the first don't have write access to the database, nor are the Playing Nows linked between instances. I'd much rather have a second MC window that was part of the singular instance of the program where everything was linked together.
This sort of implies that a zone's playing now and status would be modular, and I think that's of great advantage to anyone who wants to make a single screen controller for a multi-zone system.
Along with this, of course, is the ability to save that layout for the future.
2b) As an alternative to #2, having an ability to show multiple zone statuses from the main screen would be great. If the zone I was working in was set to headphones, I'd still like to at least know how much time was left on the track in the main zone without having to switch zones in the player.
In progress as of 13.0.161.
3) Cue in and out points as part of the library, per track
iTunes allows you to set cue in and out points, showing which parts of a file you always want to play. This would be fantastic.
As a corollary, specifying how the track cuts in and out would be great too (normal, fade in/out, crossfade, etc.)
4) Expanded playlist support
Right now, you can select an alternate playback mode as you're playing, so if you want to change mid-stream from gapped playback to crossfade, you can. What would be even more awesome is having the playlist capability expanded so that you can specify transitions between tracks ahead of time.
For example, if I load up 4 tracks, I'd like to be able to change the gap between tracks 1 and 2, set a cross-fade from 3-4, and go gapless from 2-3 as part of the playlist.
5) Configurable crossfade
There are a handful of different types of crossfade. It'd be nice if we could choose the one we wanted via a picture and have that apply per #4.
6) VST plugin support
There's a DirectX plugin manager. The best audio plugins are VST and not really available as DX. Let's get VST plugin support.
Added to 13.0.166. The ability to reorder plugins may not be available in JRMC13.
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All of these things would be sweeeeeeeet!
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I think all of this would be not even sweet but essential to get a whole new custumer basis..like I talked about a loooong time ago...
here...
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=41461.msg282722#msg282722 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=41461.msg282722#msg282722)
and here...
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=39459.msg269011#msg269011 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=39459.msg269011#msg269011)
and also here in !!2006!!
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36359.msg248805#msg248805 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36359.msg248805#msg248805)
and..lol here..
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36359.msg247997#msg247997 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=36359.msg247997#msg247997)
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3) Cue in and out points as part of the library, per track
Pretty please. This would be a great feature in MC. 12'' DJ music has 1-2 minutes of constant beat at the start and end of the track which allows the DJ to mix tracks together. However when you're listening to the same music at home that 1-2 minutes of constant beat can become annoying. To have the option to set your own cue points within MC would be sweet. A cue field where I can manually type in track start time of 2:05 and end time of 8:45 would be greatly appreciated.
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All of these things would be sweeeeeeeet!
Seconded ;D
Pretty please. This would be a great feature in MC. 12'' DJ music has 1-2 minutes of constant beat at the start and end of the track which allows the DJ to mix tracks together. However when you're listening to the same music at home that 1-2 minutes of constant beat can become annoying. To have the option to set your own cue points within MC would be sweet. A cue field where I can manually type in track start time of 2:05 and end time of 8:45 would be greatly appreciated.
There is a workaround for this but it takes work per track to do it. If your cue points stay fixed its worth it but otherwise it better to wait till they provide the functionality.
Create a cue file, its a txt file and in it set the beginning time, then import that cue file into MC and it will show up as a track with the truncated duration, start at the point you want it to. Thing is i don't think you can set an endpoint this way :(
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I've posted several things on this subject before over the years.
Overall MC does a great job. I am primarily music only oriented but I can see moving into video now that storage is so cheap. For me, I would like to see more tools for creating playlists. A dual turntable setup would be helpful so you could work out the mix by "tailing" the last 20 - 30 seconds of a song and the start of the next song to "try it on" and decide if it fits in the mix.
It would be nice if there was some flexibility on each transition on how you mix the two. Beat mix, 2 second delay, or no delay what ever you decide works for you. Let all this be stored in a separate M3U file that may also have some gain adjustments as a part of the mix.
Another feature that would be nice is to be able to identify the key the music is played in. Here is a site that might be of interest: http://www.mixedinkey.com/HowTo.aspx.
Tunetyme
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null
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I'd like to be able to use something like an Ergodex DX1 (or a Belkin Nostromo, etc) to build up a custom button pattern as well as a few sliders to control MC.
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As much as I'd like to see this actually be taken into consideration, better not hold your breaths.
You may be right Craft. The solution may be to have 2 systems, MC as a database manager and seperate DJ software.
Tunetyme
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It may be futile, but we're paying customers and if we want something we should ask for it. It doesn't mean that our voice is the priority - yet. But I think if there are a sufficient number of us, and we're all in the same place asking for the same things, that our voice might be heard. Especially since DJs tend to be pretty influential with others. I know that there are several people using MC because of my recommendation, and I'm using it because of someone else's recommendation.
The best thing there is to do right now, I think is get everyone who's looking for DJ features to post here.
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Defined in and out points would be a great feature!
1. I think it would have interest beyond just the DJ scene, as it's something normal listeners would want too (especially for those club tracks which do have really annoying intros, or mix CDs which start to mix into a new song that you don't necessarily want to hear, etc.
2. It could have value beyond just music - I can imagine using it for video too, to cut out intros, commercials, or any other crap at the beginning of a video file.
3. I wouldn't imagine this would be that much work to integrate into MC, and it might even just require a tweaking of the existing bookmarking engine.
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1) Stop after every file.
I was really excited when the "Stop After Current File" option got added. It gave me a little more control over how I moved from song to song in my playlist, or if I had to stop after a song to make an announcement, this gave me the way. However, on occasion, I'd like the player to stop after each track. This is the equivalent of "single" mode on a DJ CD player.
How about if "Stop After Current File" didn't uncheck itself until you manually unchecked it?
After talking about this some more with the team, we think adding another repeat mode "Stop After Every Item" would make more sense.
2) Multiple live instances of the MC window.
Per the DJ thread here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=50518.msg345477#msg345477) you can use multiple instances of MC to be able to interact with multiple zones separately. The unfortunate side effect of multiple instances of MC open is that any beyond the first don't have write access to the database, nor are the Playing Nows linked between instances. I'd much rather have a second MC window that was part of the singular instance of the program where everything was linked together.
This sort of implies that a zone's playing now and status would be modular, and I think that's of great advantage to anyone who wants to make a single screen controller for a multi-zone system.
Along with this, of course, is the ability to save that layout for the future.
2b) As an alternative to #2, having an ability to show multiple zone statuses from the main screen would be great. If the zone I was working in was set to headphones, I'd still like to at least know how much time was left on the track in the main zone without having to switch zones in the player.
What if there were a Playing Now for each zone in the tree? You could then open each one in its own tab.
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How about if "Stop After Current File" didn't uncheck itself until you manually unchecked it?
After talking about this some more with the team, we think adding another repeat mode "Stop After Every Item" would make more sense.
What if there were a Playing Now for each zone in the tree? You could then open each one in its own tab.
If the "stop after every item" could have a configurable behavior - to either stay on the current track, or advance to the next track in playing now - that would be awesome!
As for the second item, it's not the Playing Now list itself that I necessarily need to see, so much as its current status (how far along it is in its current track). I'm pretty efficient with Ctrl-T and using the Send To->Playing Now (Zone#) options, and don't find that to be a burden.
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If the "stop after every item" could have a configurable behavior - to either stay on the current track, or advance to the next track in playing now - that would be awesome!
In build 160 and later:
NEW: Added new repeat mode "Stop After Every Item", which can be useful in DJ settings.
We don't think it's worth yet another option to configure whether it advances or not, since you manually have to start playback again anyways.
As for the second item, it's not the Playing Now list itself that I necessarily need to see, so much as its current status (how far along it is in its current track). I'm pretty efficient with Ctrl-T and using the Send To->Playing Now (Zone#) options, and don't find that to be a burden.
I don't see how the user interface could nicely support two player bars or two main interface windows. Making it easier to switch between zones (like having each Playing Now in a tab for quick flipping) is the only compromise we can think of.
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In build 160 and later:
NEW: Added new repeat mode "Stop After Every Item", which can be useful in DJ settings.
AWESOME! Thanks, Matt! And totally fair regarding restart advancing or not.
I don't see how the user interface could nicely support two player bars or two main interface windows. Making it easier to switch between zones (like having each Playing Now in a tab for quick flipping) is the only compromise we can think of.
I have an idea which doesn't require a UI change at all - what about a couple of additional tags in the Display Text? What if you had a tag like [Zone0 Time Remaining]/[Zone0 Total Time] [Zone0 Artist], [Zone1 Time Remaining] etc. Would that be possible?
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I have an idea which doesn't require a UI change at all - what about a couple of additional tags in the Display Text? What if you had a tag like [Zone0 Time Remaining]/[Zone0 Total Time] [Zone0 Artist], [Zone1 Time Remaining] etc. Would that be possible?
That would be pretty straight-forward.
However, we've coded, as a test, having each zone in its own tab (or split view so you see them all at once). It seems kind of neat. Whatever zone you click on (tab or split view) also switches the display at the top of the program to that zone. It seems like it'd be pretty nice if you were trying to actively manage two or more zones.
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As long as you can see the time remaining on the currently playing track for each zone without having to switch views, that would work for me. To give you some insight as to why I ask, if I'm using the visible zone to preview tracks, I need to keep an eye on how much time is left in the track playing to the speakers in the other zone. Right now, I have to switch over (Ctrl-T). That takes time, and also makes it a lot easier to accidentally perform an action in the wrong zone.
If there's a way to adjust the playing now header bar like in my attached picture, then having the ability to put each playing now in to one of the splits in a split view would be perfect.
(http://www.sarchasm.org/playing_now_update.jpg)
Hope that helps explain what I'm asking for.
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Also, thanks a lot, Matt, for looking into this stuff for us!
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You might give build 161 a shake:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51715.0
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Right on. Some usability thoughts - if you have two Playing Nows open in split view (one per zone), there's still no way to tell what's happening (second-by-second) in the inactive zone.
I do see that there's an inactive highlight bar that moves with the currently playing file in the inactive zone which is definitely good.
I have to say this is a HUGE step in the right direction for me, and if I could get something like my image above, then I'd be really happy.
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How about something in the bottom bar when you hover over it? (Not necessarily even on hover, could have it in there by default?)
Don't like the idea of sticking it in the tab header, this would get extremely messy with multiple tabs.
Cheers
-Leezer-
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Hovering doesn't work for me. I need it visible all the time. Honestly, I don't much care where it ends up, as long as I can see it at all times.
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This getting cool...
Matt, one other thing. If you're viewing a zone in PN, then you go thru the menu and make another zone active, the player bar updates, but the PN view doesn't change. This seems confusing, I'm not sure what the best way to handle this is, perhaps just change the view to that zone in PN?
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Native VST plugin support is coming soon.
We're only going to do v2.x, because v3.x is totally different and the plugins for that version look pretty few and far between.
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I should add that the VST Plugins will be stackable.
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Wicked.
Can't wait.
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I still want the specific time TopHits SmartList (most played in the last week, in the last month etc. - customizable) integrated in MC13 like usual TopHits. :'( This feature is also another DJ future request - I play music with MC13 at a Radio Station. Perhaps a separated plug in? I will pay for this.
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MC has a wizard for creating that kind of smartlists.
See the attached screenshot. (log in to the forum if you can't see it)
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I know that. But the number of plays not show the reality specific in the last 7 days. MC Counts the all number of plays from beginning of media library.
The smart list should be like this:
[Number Plays]=>0 [Media Type]=[Audio] [Last Played]=04/27/2009-05/03/2009 ~sort=[Number Plays]-d,[Rating]-d,[Last Played]-d,[Date Created]-d,[Sequence],[Date Imported]-d ~n=20
But the result is wrong, 'cause is not returns the reality.....
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MC does not store the date & time of each play. It only counts the total number of plays and stores the date & time of the last play.
You would need to do some manual maintaining to get what you want.
For instance, in order to get the weekly number of plays you could create a new field and copy the Number Plays values to the field in the beginning of the week.
In the end of the week you would need store the weekly statistics: create a smartlist that shows all tracks that were played during the week and use a calculated field to do the math: Math([Number Plays]-[your custom field]).
After that you could copy the list and the values included in the visible columns to a spreadsheet table (Ctrl+A > Ctrl+C > paste to Excel or similar) and in addition export the playlist in mpl and m3u formats (m3u is just a playlist, mpl contains also the field values) and store the files in a specific "week number" folder.
A different approach could be:
1. save a snapshot of the library to a new library backup file and name it appropriately
2. store the total number of plays to a custom field (this would be the sum of Number Plays and "last week's stored total number of plays")
3. reset the Number Plays values.
Whenever needed any of the stored library backup files could be restored to a new separate library and the statistical data could be accessed and exported.
Prossibly the steps 1-3 could be automated. Mr. ChriZ's Scripting Plugin might be able to do that.
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Ok. I understand. I'll try this. Just two questions. How can I reset the number of plays? And second? Where can I find the plug in (Mr. ChriZ's Scripting Plugin)?
Thanks a lot!
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One more thing. I can't copy the field Number Plays. In the copy/move fields command it doesn't exist... Help!
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Oops, you are correct. Also the Last Played and Last Skipped fields are not available there. I wonder why.
I just created a calculated field that has the string [Number Plays] in the expression box. It shows up in the copy/move fields tool and makes possible to copy the playcount value to another user field.
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How can I reset the number of plays?
Select the files and reset the counter in Action Window > Tag > Number Plays (You can select the empty value to reset it.)
Where can I find the plug in (Mr. ChriZ's Scripting Plugin)?
Mr ChriZ's Scripting Plugin:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=38693
Sample scripts:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=33020
Script Runner Standalone:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51552
A recent application for adding cover art dimension info to the database:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51556
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Ok. Thanks. But I don't to create a calculated field. It will be great if you want to create a blank media library for me, then introduce the new customized field number plays there. And after that save the library and send it to my e-mail address: [removed]. Thanks again! :)
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Instead of sending a mail I think it is better to give you advice here. Other users may need help as well.
I attached a couple of screenshots of the fields I created. You can add new fields in Options > Library & Folders > Manage Library Fields...
"Number Plays copy" shows automatically the current playcount value
"Number Plays store" is an example of a field that you can use for storing the value when you copy the field value from the "Number Plays copy" field.
For instance, technically nothing would restrict you from creating a new field for each week. They could be named like "number plays week 1", "number plays week 2", "number plays week 3", etc. You could create a playlist of each past week and show only that week's "number plays" column in the playlist view.
To update the total number of plays you can select the files and paste a string like =Math([Number Plays]+[Number Plays store] to yet another custom field. The example string would calculate the sum of the the two included field values and return a static integer number.
(Log in to the forum if you can't see the attachments.)
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Very Cool! Thanks a lot for help. Right now I start a brand new library with all the new features. Basically what i learned today I'll combine with smart lists that i already present you in an anterior post. It's a little bit sophisticated but I hope it works! Thank You!. As usual MC rules! After I understand the mechanism and all will works fine, I'll come back with a complete tutorial.
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Just a brief update from me -
I DJed using .161 this past weekend. Having the separate playing now fields was awesome, as was the Stop After Every File. It was a little inconvenient to have to refresh the playlists when they blanked out, but I know this will be fixed in the next version and was definitely surmountable.
(The dancing was so intense, it shook the floor and dimmed the lights in the bar below us!)
Also, I talked to one DJ in Chicago who uses MC and another DJ who is planning on switching to it, and it was definitely a plus that I was able to tell them that we were getting features added to support us.
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Having the separate playing now fields was awesome, as was the Stop After Every File.
(The dancing was so intense, it shook the floor and dimmed the lights in the bar below us!)
How do you manage this if you stop at the end of each track ?
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How do you manage this if you stop at the end of each track ?
So the stop at the end of the track just means that it won't automatically advance. This lets me choose the length of the pause between songs. If I want it to be "none", then I can start up the next song as the last song is finishing (status of "waiting...") and it'll go straight into the next track.
Also, you have to work the dancers up into a frenzy. That generally helps. :)
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Build 166, available at the top of this board, adds native VST support.
Cheers.
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i guess im a dummy... but what is VST?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Studio_Technology
VST is another type of audio plugin similar to DirectX, designed to emulate studio equipment. If you want compressors, or limiters, or 31-band EQs or parametric EQs or distortion or noise reduction effects added to your output, VST provides a way to do that.
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I made it. The specific time TOP HITS LIST (most played in a week, month or even at a party) is perfectly working in MC13! If someone needs help, reply. It's a little bit complicated, but it works! Great peace of software! Keep the good work guys!
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One more thing. SPECIFIC TIME HIT LIST works separately and do not affect the CLASSIC TOP HITS LIST!
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:-[ Completely automatic perfect beat-matching transitions and switch tracks anytime without losing the beat. ;D :D
It would be awesome, LEGEN -wait for it- DARY!! ;)
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I made it. The specific time TOP HITS LIST (most played in a week, month or even at a party) is perfectly working in MC13! If someone needs help, reply. It's a little bit complicated, but it works!
How bout starting a new thread to brag about it :)
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So, here's a brief recap, which is by no means an attempt to keep bumping this thread. :)
Things we've gotten:
* VST Plugin Support
* Repeat Mode : Stop After Each File [Single mode on CD players]
* The ability to have each zone's playing now as a separate view in split views
Things we're still asking for:
* Completely automatic perfect beat-matching transitions and switch tracks anytime without losing the beat.
* A way to see track status in an inactive zone (specifically time left on a playing track)
* User settable cue in and out points for each track in the library [iTunes has this feature]
* Support for USB Midi DJ controllers [this would need more definition]
* Per track transitions in a playlist [silence, crossfade, etc.]
* Add key determination (G, Bb, etc.) to audio analysis
* Configurable crossfade types, with pictures so we know what the fade looks like
Did I miss anything, DJ folks? yooz - Are you still trying to figure out how to do previewing on headphones without switching zones?
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To pile on with Keither, here's how I would rank his wishlist in terms of stuff I'd love to see:
1. User settable cue in and out points for each track in the library [iTunes has this feature]
2. Configurable crossfade types, with pictures so we know what the fade looks like
3. Per track transitions in a playlist [silence, crossfade, etc.]
4. A way to see track status in an inactive zone (specifically time left on a playing track)
5. Add key determination (G, Bb, etc.) to audio analysis
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Hovering doesn't work for me. I need it visible all the time. Honestly, I don't much care where it ends up, as long as I can see it at all times.
How about creating a "Zone Summary" action window? Something like how the "rip disc" window looks, except it shows the zone name, song title, and progress bar for each zone (with maybe limited pause/play functionality?)
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Things we're still asking for:
* Completely automatic perfect beat-matching transitions and switch tracks anytime without losing the beat.
* A way to see track status in an inactive zone (specifically time left on a playing track)
* User settable cue in and out points for each track in the library [iTunes has this feature]
* Support for USB Midi DJ controllers [this would need more definition]
* Per track transitions in a playlist [silence, crossfade, etc.]
* Add key determination (G, Bb, etc.) to audio analysis
* Configurable crossfade types, with pictures so we know what the fade looks like
For me key determination is the top priority as a part of the audio analysis.
It might be helpful to be able to adjust the gain in the playlist.
I really like the idea of being able to store the transition in a playlist. Do you envision this to apply when you burn a CD as well?
Tunetyme
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I'm not burning CDs, and I really only need the track-by transitions in Playing Now - but I figure once it's in playing now, it's part of the database and should be more valuable to other people who are creating playlists ahead of time.
I would guess that having the ability to burn those tracked transitions would be a separate feature.
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Thanks for the report (and the purchase).
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Keither:
Have you ever put together a great playlist at a club that is truely and inspiration? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to hear it again in the car or at the office? That's why I would love to be able to create CD's with the transitions stored in the playlists. I understand as a DJ, you do things based on the mood and feedback that you get from the crowd. For me, a great playlist that captures the right mood is worth its weight in gold. That is the primary reason that I have loaded all my music on my PC. I want to be able to create playlists or CD's that I can listen to in other environments. One example is, what I call, rainy day jazz that is 5 hours of great music for a Sunday afternoon or of course a rainy day. Everyone who has heard the playlist loves its’ smooth transitions and how it completely captures the mood with its' fluctuating intensity just like the rain.
This is why key determination would be so helpful for me to develop playlists and being able to store the transition in the playlist itself along with adjustments in gain would be ideal. That way I don't have to alter the original information stored from the CD.
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The developer in me wants to ask this question:
How do you burn a CD with transitions that aren't "gapless" or "silence"? Where do you put the track divider when you're crossfading between two tracks?
I think there's an argument that you could "render" the playlist to a single long audio file.
Would having tracks on the CD be important?
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I just tested something to see if it would work for recording crossfades. I used Tools > Advanced Tools > Record Sound. Under the Recorder Options, I set my recording device to "What You Hear." This is available depending on your soundcard drivers. I then recorded the last part of one song and the crossfade into the next. It worked great. If I wanted to do a whole CD, I would setup my playlist, start the recorder, play the playlist. When finished, I would make a Cue file with the actual track lengths of each song. Then I would use the Cue file to split up the files into tracks. I would then burn the CD (you might be able to burn from a Cue file, but I haven't tried it).
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I don't think it is required to have individual tracks on a CD. This is a situation where you are listening to the playlist and since every song is great with great transitions who would want to skip a track. It isn't about a list of songs but how it makes your audience feel and do as you play that sequence of songs.
As I see it for you and other DJ's, you could put together one of your great sets and be able to use it as a marketing tool. You could demonstrate different styles for different kinds of situations from a club to a wedding and everything in between. The CD is still the common denominator. Everybody has a player
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If you don't care about tracking it out, why not use a diskwriter plugin (I know that Winamp has it, but haven't bothered to look at MC) and just play your setlist from start to finish? Then you'd have a .wav file you could burn (either from MC or Nero or whatever).
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If you don't care about tracking it out, why not use a diskwriter plugin (I know that Winamp has it, but haven't bothered to look at MC) and just play your setlist from start to finish?
I'll check that out. Does anyone know if this can be done in MC?
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I just tested something to see if it would work for recording crossfades. I used Tools > Advanced Tools > Record Sound. Under the Recorder Options, I set my recording device to "What You Hear." This is available depending on your soundcard drivers. I then recorded the last part of one song and the crossfade into the next. It worked great. If I wanted to do a whole CD, I would setup my playlist, start the recorder, play the playlist. When finished, I would make a Cue file with the actual track lengths of each song. Then I would use the Cue file to split up the files into tracks. I would then burn the CD (you might be able to burn from a Cue file, but I haven't tried it).
This seems to be a likely option, Tunetyme.
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If you don't care about tracking it out, why not use a diskwriter plugin (I know that Winamp has it, but haven't bothered to look at MC)
In MC, Playback Options > Output Mode: Disk Writer
It has been there at least since MJ8. It has an option to create separate track files and it preserves all set DSP and or cross-fade effects. It creates the wave files as fast as the PC can process them (it is a lot faster than real-time). MC's burner can burn the resulting files without adding any silent gaps.
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This implies, then, that if we did alter a playlist to have per track transitions and cue in/out, then we'd immediately get the ability to diskwrite it out and burn it. There ya go, Tunetyme - a feature you wanted is already there! :)
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I will be using it this weekend!!! ;D
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Keither,
Thank you so much for starting this thread. I second your list of requests, especially the cue in and cue out times. Administrators, I haven't seen a response to the cue in/cue out request. Is this possible, likely, in process?
Can anyone point me to a thread on how to preview with headphones without changing zones? I am about to dive into that.
Thanks,
Suzie
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i looked at this thread about a month ago (as they say, it pertains to my interests), and was surprised nobody mentioned how poorly MC determines track BPMs. then when i looked at it just now, i was really surprised nobody brought it up. surely i can't be the only one who's seen this?
now i recognise that automagically determining a BPM isn't the easiest, and MC is right about half of the time (within a few BPM of actual). 25% of the time, it's on a ratio of the actual BPM. usually it's about 66% of the actual, or 125%, or 166%, or 50%, or something. those i was willing to call ok, figuring that they'd have complex rhythms. i took a look at the tracks in my collection that are somewhat, though, and they're not at all complex. i thought they would be drum'n'bass or jazz or something, but a lot are regular tracks or even something super-simple like techno.
anyways, the other 25% of the time, it's just plan wrong, and there's no identifiable pattern to it.
usually what i do is, after importing, i re-analyse the BPMs using a program called "mixmeister bpm analyzer". that program is hardly ever wrong, and if it is, it's within 1 BPM of the correct number.
so, i recognise this is probably not very high on the j. river priority list, but i am curious if anyone else has problems with inaccurate BPMs in the collection, and if j. river would consider taking a look at their algorithms for analysing this. (i wouldn't think of suggesting they copy what the mixmeister program does, but it is right 99% of the time...)
thanks!
micah
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Yes, I have the same problem with BPM. I suggest that you start a new thread to address the bug.
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Can anyone point me to a thread on how to preview with headphones without changing zones? I am about to dive into that.
Here's how I do it - I actually use my main zone as the "background zone" and then preview on the "foreground zone". The most action that goes on is the preview zone, while the output zone tends to just be sitting there playing tracks.
You can send tracks from one zone to another by using the right-click menu / Send To / Play (Zone Name)... / Add
So, I'll be sitting there playing my tracks to my headphones in the Preview zone, and when I find a song I'd like to add to the main mix, I use the right click menu. (After the first time you do this, the buried command sticks to the top of your right-click menu.)
Make sense?
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Things we've gotten:
* VST Plugin Support
* Repeat Mode : Stop After Each File [Single mode on CD players]
* The ability to have each zone's playing now as a separate view in split views
Things we're still asking for:
* Completely automatic perfect beat-matching transitions and switch tracks anytime without losing the beat.
* A way to see track status in an inactive zone (specifically time left on a playing track)
* User settable cue in and out points for each track in the library [iTunes has this feature]
* Support for USB Midi DJ controllers [this would need more definition]
* Per track transitions in a playlist [silence, crossfade, etc.]
* Add key determination (G, Bb, etc.) to audio analysis
* Configurable crossfade types, with pictures so we know what the fade looks like
* Improved BMP analysis / functionality
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* Add key determination (G, Bb, etc.) to audio analysis
* Improved BMP analysis / functionality
whew, good luck getting the key analysis. neither traktor nor live do that, and if they don't, then i think MC is going to be hard pressed to pull it off.
as i said, though, i think better BPM analysis is very doable (based on what other software packages can do).
micah
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Mostly, I'm trying to just aggregate requests. I don't feel it's my place to filter or sort, since I'm not on the dev team. If we hear from the dev team that a feature is off the agenda, then I'll strike it from the list. :)
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For those who are not familiar with key analysis here is a good link that provides some good info about what it is and how it is used:
http://www.mixedinkey.com/Homepage.aspx
This is not the only provider.
As for other DJ software this software will work with them (Traktor, Mixmeister, etc.)
I agree that we need to have all the basics working flawlessly before tackling something new. BPM is certainly fixable, in its' current state it isn't a reliable tool. I still haven't figured out how to use "Intensity" or what it was designed to tell me about the song.
I looked at a lot of the DJ software before I bought MC. While they have some features that I would love to have when it comes to building and mixing playlists I find that they have other serious flaws such as lack of compatibility to formats other than MP3 & WAV. The databases are weak at best and have little or no flexibility to build in your own info into the database. With all that said, I still have to maintain 2 players and databases (MC & dbpoweramp) so I can get some of my data out and use it it in other applications. (I can't get Word, Excel, or Access to import the HTML export from MC.)
Personally, I think that if JRiver worked with the above and some others like IZotope there could be some revenue sharing benefit for JRiver and perhaps a discount for us too.
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Great link tunetyme!
Thank you dude ;)
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For those who are not familiar with key analysis here is a good link that provides some good info about what it is and how it is used:
http://www.mixedinkey.com/Homepage.aspx
hunh, i didn't know about this. interesting. i wonder how it works...? but hey, it has pete tong's endorsement, so good enough for me! ;)
I agree that we need to have all the basics working flawlessly before tackling something new. BPM is certainly fixable, in its' current state it isn't a reliable tool. I still haven't figured out how to use "Intensity" or what it was designed to tell me about the song.
i have no idea what intensity is for. i would love to know. as best as i can figure, it has something to do with RMS level.
micah
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Just found this thread (thanks keither!)
+1 for key analysis. This would be a big plus for me. I use MixedInKey but find it tedious because there's no automation in there - plus you need an internet connection so it's useless live or on the go.
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Hey Matt,
With trial versions of MC14 available, can you comment on whether any of our feature requests are on the roadmap? I know you said that being able to sequence plugins was not likely to make it into MC13. Will it make MC14? What about our other features?
Many thanks. I hope to see continued improvement and will gladly go on and pay the upgrade price for MC14 today if there will be continued support for us.
Thanks!
-Keith
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A suggestion for the view implementation, based on the fact that we can now have two Playing Nows (which I really like):
Introduce a mixed horizontal/vertical view split with one top view and two bottom views side by side. The top view could then be used for the library or playlists, bottom left for "Playing Now - Headphones" and the bottom right view for "Playing Now - Speakers".
That would give a good overview as well as easy drag-and-drop additions to Playing Now - with less risk of dropping tracks at the wrong Playing Now.
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Hey Matt,
With trial versions of MC14 available, can you comment on whether any of our feature requests are on the roadmap? I know you said that being able to sequence plugins was not likely to make it into MC13. Will it make MC14? What about our other features?
Many thanks. I hope to see continued improvement and will gladly go on and pay the upgrade price for MC14 today if there will be continued support for us.
Thanks!
-Keith
Just checking back in and bumping the topic.
Thanks!
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Was wondering whether there was any interest in easi(er) pitch and tempo control.
At the moment you need to go into the DSP Studio dialog to do any adjustments.
I was thinking if there was a way to send a message to either increment/decrement either, then skins in the future could feature a button to do the job.
Much faster to adjust both parameters in this way :)
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Just checking back in and bumping the topic.
Thanks!
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Was wondering whether there was any interest in easi(er) pitch and tempo control.
+1 for tempo control! Pitch control isn't so important, is it?
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+1 for tempo control! Pitch control isn't so important, is it?
let's take a step back here. adding things like tempo control puts MC down the road to being a piece of software for djing, and there are already several pieces of software that do this (some of which do it very well). in my mind, adding something like this would "dilute the brand" of MC. if the development team knew djing, they'd either have already added this feature or done a piece of software for djing. i think this would be leading them down a path where they aren't experts.
am i making any sense?
micah
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No, you are not making much sense :P
The function requested would mostly be used with a skin that was aware of this capability. It involves no GUI rework whatsover or any other changes ie its a trivial addition as the functionality already exists.
Anyway..its up to the ppl that DJ to decide.
+1 for tempo control! Pitch control isn't so important, is it?
I guess
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The function requested would mostly be used with a skin that was aware of this capability. It involves no GUI rework whatsover or any other changes ie its a trivial addition.
good point, i hadn't considered that only certain skins would take advantage of that. on the other hand, if MC's BPM analysis is so poor, i doubt that they'd be able to add beat-accurate time-stretching/-compression.
sorry if it sounds harsh, just calling it the way it is. MC does one thing great, and i worry if they decide to add something else, done poorly, what we have now will degrade. it can't be everything to everyone.
of course, if they do decide to add some of these features and manage to do it well, i'll gladly eat all of my words. :)
micah
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Why couldn't the responsibility of ensuring the bpm for the track is correct be left to the user? If the adjusted bpm were just based on the percentage pitch/tempo change and the bpm field, then there wouldn't be anything really to worry about, would there?
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Why couldn't the responsibility of ensuring the bpm for the track is correct be left to the user? If the adjusted bpm were just based on the percentage pitch/tempo change and the bpm field, then there wouldn't be anything really to worry about, would there?
yes, sure, but MC's analysis of a track's BPM now is off most of the time. if the user has to determine the BPM on their own and then input it, well, that kind of defeats the point of having djing software.
micah
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Heh. I guess that as a swing dance DJ, my motivation was never to get MC to beat-match. I'm just looking for features to make previewing and playing of tracks in a live setting easier. MC's library is second to none, but for jazz and blues tracks there's not a bpm counter out there that can get them right.
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Heh. I guess that as a swing dance DJ, my motivation was never to get MC to beat-match. I'm just looking for features to make previewing and playing of tracks in a live setting easier. MC's library is second to none, but for jazz and blues tracks there's not a bpm counter out there that can get them right.
well, you're all set then. :)
micah
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Hahaha. I've got 5 or 6 things I'd like to see still.
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Why couldn't the responsibility of ensuring the bpm for the track is correct be left to the user? If the adjusted bpm were just based on the percentage pitch/tempo change and the bpm field, then there wouldn't be anything really to worry about, would there?
Thats what i was suggesting, many times you only want to bump the speed up or down say 5% of the tempo.
This has absolutely nothing to with BPM analysis, its what you woud do on pre-listening. I dont think its clear to some that this is already there, its just more cumbersome to get to than a click.
Player->Playback Options->DSP Options->Tempo & Pitch
See the tempo slider in there :)
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Hahaha. I've got 5 or 6 things I'd like to see still.
How about posting your top 5, in order of importance? We might do a couple in the next month.
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For me, my top two are both audio analysis tools:
getting the BPM right, this is a very useful tool when selecting songs if it is accurate
Add key determination (G, Bb, etc.) to audio analysis, when used with the Camelot mixing wheel you can mix songs that are in harmony as well as tempo (BPM). This really takes you to the next level.
Tunetyme
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Let's see - in order of importance:
1. Plug-in ordering in the DSP section
2. Settings memory for VST plugins
3. Some way to view the current track status of a zone from it's playing now view
4. Cue in/out points per track (iTunes has this)
Those are my big ones.
Here's another interesting thought - is there some way to visually indicate in the program which fields in the database can be stored in a file's tags and which ones are only stored in the database?
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Coming build build 55 and later (available in about a week):
NEW: DSP Studio supports ordering of effects. (drag items in list to reorder)
NEW: VST DSP plug-ins remember the program and program settings between runs of the program.
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getting the BPM right, this is a very useful tool when selecting songs if it is accurate
Perhaps you could post five popular songs that you think BPM is getting wrong?
Thanks.
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4. Cue in/out points per track (iTunes has this)
We'll make 'Playback Range' user editable in a coming build.
You can put values like:
Times:
0:00-3:15
0:00.23-3:15.78
Milliseconds:
0-195000.243
The decimal allows accuracy right down to the sample if you need it. This system is already used for CUE files, so it's well tested and well supported.
Someday we might wrap it with a fancy user interface, but this should at leave give you the functionality.
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Add key determination (G, Bb, etc.) to audio analysis, when used with the Camelot mixing wheel you can mix songs that are in harmony as well as tempo (BPM). This really takes you to the next level.
Personally, I think it would be more prudent to simply support importing this data from other sources. In general, the audio analysis of MC is pretty basic, which is reasonable considering the general market. There are other programs out there that spend all of their time developing algorithms to do things like key determination and as such should do a much better job than MC at it. If MC can simply support importing data from other tools that specialize in audio analysis, I'd be a happy camper.
That said, I've had a fair amount of luck importing data into customized fields, so if you've already got another tool for analyzing audio and know what tag fields it stores that data in you can probably have this data in MC as is.
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We'll make 'Playback Range' user editable in a coming build.
You can put values like:
Times:
0:00-3:15
0:00.23-3:15.78
Milliseconds:
0-195000.243
This is nice but does anyone think there would be a need to override playback range at any time ?
As once its set then it will always play that way, unless reset.
Here's how to query which tracks have playback range set ?
-playbackrange=[]
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The playback range values will be stored in the database.
It might be a good idea to use a separate library for DJ'ing so that the stored ranges would not disrupt regular playback.
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We'll make 'Playback Range' user editable in a coming build.
That's perfect. I had always wondered why that field wasn't editable. :)
Perhaps an advanced checkbox option in playback could disable it? Also, is there any way to write out (at a minimum) the 'start' point into the tags in a way that Traktor can read it? Traktor saves cue points in the tags, and it'd be great if I could drag a file from MC into Traktor and have it cued up to where I set the start point in MC.
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Add key determination (G, Bb, etc.) to audio analysis, when used with the Camelot mixing wheel you can mix songs that are in harmony as well as tempo (BPM). This really takes you to the next level.
Personally, I think it would be more prudent to simply support importing this data from other sources. In general, the audio analysis of MC is pretty basic, which is reasonable considering the general market. There are other programs out there that spend all of their time developing algorithms to do things like key determination and as such should do a much better job than MC at it. If MC can simply support importing data from other tools that specialize in audio analysis, I'd be a happy camper.
That said, I've had a fair amount of luck importing data into customized fields, so if you've already got another tool for analyzing audio and know what tag fields it stores that data in you can probably have this data in MC as is.
bunglemebaby
I hear you. There is more to mixing harmonically than just storing the information in a database. Take some time and look at http://www.mixshare.com/ "Rapid Evolution" or RE. It is free. What you will notice is that not only does it determine and store the key but it also highlights all the potential songs that will mix harmonically. I have over 18,000 songs. I need tools that will speed up the process of selecting songs and making playlists. I can select a style and narrow down the field of choices very quickly. My objective is to get the benefit of my entire database of songs not just the ones that I have rated 4 or 5 stars. Even the 2 star songs have a place in different mixes. They can sound great when they have the right song preceding them. For the average listener they want to hear their favorites and they play them over and over. I strive to broaden my music appreciation by building lists that include 2 and 3 star rated songs.
What RE does is identifies songs with compatible keys. They highlight the compatible song with different highlighting to help you choose the next song that will blend both harmonically and tempo (BPM). If you just want to play your favorites then this isn't for you. But if you want to create a certain ambiance for a dinner party and then lead into some dance music or some nice background music for conversation then this will help you do it. It is great to be able to create days of music to play in the background while you work. When it is mixed harmonically each song blends into the next with no apparent transition.
A really skilled DJ can take a crowd and move them from each extreme of emotions. I love having a playlist that takes me down from a day in the office and then sets the mood for a nice quiet dinner with my wife and then...
There is another good site http://www.harmonic-mixing.com/ that will help you understand the benefits of harmonic mixing.
As for MC, it is a great software for managing all your media. It has a solid database and is very capable of handling a lot of things that I will never use it for. I am interested in music and I would like to have one software package that does music exceptionally well. The whole idea of putting my music on my PC is so I can get it out in a pleasing sequence for me and my friends. Over the last few years, MC has been focused on adding new features to everything except the music portion of the program. There are many new developments that are creating competition for MC and our desiring that MC keeps up with the times is the objective.
As for importing and exporting the database and integrating it with other information, I would certainly welcome the ability to do that. I still can't read my exported HTML format from MC. I have requested that we be able to export it to a flat file or better yet be able to select the fields and sequence so I could import it to Excel or Access. That is a seperate issue.
Tunetyme
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Perhaps you could post five popular songs that you think BPM is getting wrong?
Thanks.
Matt:
I don’t do hip-hop or some of the more recent music. I’ve put together a list from 3 different sources for BPM. MC, Mixmeister, and Rapid Evolution (Mixshare). I have chosen 3 genres of music; Rock, Jazz and Classical to get a balanced look at the BPM. I’ve decided to submit this to all three providers. Both Mixshare Rapid Evolution and Mixmeister BPM calculator are free so you can download them and work with your own files. Both MC and Rapid Evolution work with flac files but I have to convert to a WAV for Mixmeister. If you like, I can upload all the files I used for the test. This is not an exhaustive sampling but a few chosen by their various tempos.
Rapid
Artist Song MC Mixmeister Evolution
Rock
ABBA One Of Us 164 82.32 43.13
Adams, Bryan Heat Of The Night 85 87.4 43.7
Aerosmith Kings And Queens 61 124.44 48.58
Allman Brothers Ramblin' Man 85 90.16 44.6
America A Horse With No Name 93 124.65 124.2
Animals, The House of the Rising Sun 117 117.62 47.6
Alabama Tennessee River 142 96.6 96.7
Jazz
Acoustic Alchemy Columbia 122 122.61 61.71
Adderley, Cannonball Autumn Leaves 111 112.04 55.72
Alpert, Herb Spanish Flea 162 162.15 81.47
Armstrong, Louis Muskrat Ramble 85 88.05 46.93
Barbieri, Gato Adios - Part I 84 107.46 65.45
Classical
Albinoni, Tomaso Adagio 100 110.36 43.36
Bach The Well Tempered Clavier 98 148.6 56.91
Bach, Johann Sebastian Air on a G String 110 112.67 50.42
Barber, Samuel Adagio For Strings 86 139 42.78
Beethoven, Ludwig van Fur Elise 84 119.91 44.62
I hope this helps.
Keep in mind when you are beat mixing a 5-6% bpm shift in the beat will cause a change in the key you hear the music. That's one of the reasons the getting BPM right is so important. When you listen to the Jazz and Classical I think Rapid Evolution (RE) appears to give the best results. RE also provides a means for you to tap out the beat for yourself if you are not sure. That is not one of my talents so I haven't done it. I will talk to one of my musician friends and see if they will do the manual testing for me. If I am successful I will post the results for you.
Tunetyme
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I would still very much like to see (or have explained to me if I've missed it) a way to tell in the library pane which songs have been placed into the now playing pane.
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Don't believe its possible to do exactly what you want but how about NOT displaying in the library view what currently exists in PN. Would that work ?
Your idea is helpful if the playlist was very long and would save on going back and forth between PN & a library tab.
Welcome to Interact :)
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Don't believe its possible to do exactly what you want but how about NOT displaying in the library view what currently exists in PN. Would that work ?
Your idea is helpful if the playlist was very long and would save on going back and forth between PN & a library tab.
So you're suggesting a custom Library view that doesn't display items which are in the Now Playing view? I assume that must be possible? :)
That's not NEARLY an optimal substitute for what I want, but it would be better than nothing, I suppose. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Hi guys,
I just read this whole thread and it contains a lot the things I've been wishing for when doing gigs using MC.
For me, the main reason to have DJ features in MC is that even the best DJ softwares out there are built with people who are clueless about User Experience (UX) and User Interface (UI) design.
For example, Virtual DJ has a very tiny window to browse your library that is annoying to use. Traktor has super tiny controls and crammed up screens.
The MC team has done a great application and I think that:
1. they've reached a level where the user base doesn't need new features for playing and managing their media libraries. At one point you have to learn to reduce the amount of features instead of adding more until the end of eternity. This is what irrelevant Microsoft did with their bloatware - it will contribute, in part, to their death (something I can't wait to see happen).
2. because of what I pointed out in 1., MC needs to attract a whole new user base. The DJ module is where they could excel, use their talent, build something unique and revolutionary, where the one advantage of this application (database management) is mixed with DJ'ing features to produce something new. Don't create another app, add a DJ'ing module.
I'd like to know also what would prevent a third-party developer to create a DJ plugin for MC with the wishlist features published here? Could we find some talented programmer here and start this project on our own, if the MC team is not interested?
Also, even though off-topic, I'm still wondering what the heck is JRiver waiting for to port MC to Linux. This great program is the *only* reason why I still use Windows!!!
Cheers to all,
Melkiades
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Request:
Allow the user the ability to toggle the following on a per-zone basis:
- disable automatic increment of Number Plays
- disable automatic increment of Skip Count
- disable automatic updating of Last Played
- disable automatic updating of Last Skipped
I don't care if the setting toggles all of them or allows them to be toggled individually. For my uses, they would all be enabled or disabled together.
Problem and Rationale:
When previewing tracks while live DJing or putting together a set list before a performance, one does not want the stats on the previewed files to be updated. A lot of skipping around and sampling is expected. Playing whole songs is also expected. However, doing so is detrimental if that activity updates the attributes listed above because it destroys their use in other situations.
For example, if a DJ tries to "keep it fresh" by having smartlists set up that only include songs that have not been played within a certain timeframe, the act of live previewing and building set lists will destroy the usefulness of those smartlists. It is also currently impossible to have clean smartlists for "overplayed" and "recently popular" due to stats pollution during preview activity.
The same goes if the DJ is performing ad-hoc searches that key off of the Last Played attribute. If the DJ uses the play count to choose between two songs, having that stat polluted by previewing activity makes it less useful.
Likewise, since previewing involves a lot of skipping around, anything within MC that uses skip counts and times (as an indicator of "crappiness" for example) will also be working with polluted data.
Solution:
When previewing and building set lists, a DJ can use a particular zone which disables the listed attributes.
Thanks!
PS: Please move this topic to the latest Media Center thread. I will have a few more requests coming, and it seems like it is better to continue this thread than to start a new one.
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Disabling stats would fit nicely into the Audio > Alternate Mode settings and toggling.
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I, too, would like to have stats disabled for exactly the same reason. Doing so from Alternate Mode would be a decent enough solution, though I'd rather not as I already have AM configured for something else.