INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 22 for Windows => Topic started by: scgt1 on July 25, 2016, 09:29:38 am
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I've had this problem ever since I went to Windows 10. Microsoft support can't seem to figure it out. Resetting windows doesn't correct the problem and a fresh reformat and reinstall doesn't fix it. (I've done the last about 6 times this year now)
The only thing I can think of that is causing it is JRiver 21.
The computer will be fine all day long. Watch shows in our living room in the evening streamed by JRiver. Come in the office about 10:30 pm mouse down to the bottom to make the start bar pop up and click the window button..... cricket cricket. It highlights knowing the mouse is over it but that's it. Hitting the windows key on the keyboard doesn't bring up the menu either. The only thing that corrects this problem after it happens is either logging off and back on or simply restarting the computer. This is a severe PITA in it's own right. 98% of the time I come in the office and I'm doing things on the computer then go to pull the menu up and doh. Then have to save, bookmark what ever I was working with and restart or logoff and log back on.
I can go several days on a restart just fine on 24/7 but as soon as jriver is played in the other room nothing.
Surely I'm not the only one experiencing this problem. I never had this issue with Win7
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It's a Windows 10 issue, that's well known.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100712.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=104591.0
Since updating to the latest Insider build (which is likely the Anniversary Update RTM that comes out next week), I've yet to encounter this issue again.
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That would be great if the new Win 10 build solves this issue!! I've experienced this issue for some time now: Win 7 through Win 10.
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I've wrestled with this issue, also. And, running MC is the "trigger" for my Win10 x64 to lose the Start Menu. However, it's a Microsoft problem, not a JRiver problem.
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Check out the thread referenced in my signature below, but I am really hoping the Anniversary release may finally resolve the issue for everyone as Awesome alludes to:
It's a Windows 10 issue, that's well known.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100712.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=104591.0
Since updating to the latest Insider build (which is likely the Anniversary Update RTM that comes out next week), I've yet to encounter this issue again.
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I've always attributed this to the fact that I have "start bar" (task bar) set to auto-hide in Windows 10. I've learned to use theater view to restart windows before I attempt to do anything on the computer other than MC-related stuff. If it's been more than 24 hours I just know it's going to be an issue and I reboot with the remote before I have have to drag out the keyboard. By any chance are you using "auto hide" on your task bar? Just curious...
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Taskbar not auto-hidden. Start menu inoperative, anyway.
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Wow no notification to this post odd. Anyway I'm using auto hide. Nice to know I'm not the only one. Would have been nicer to know about this prior to constantly reloading the computer LOL. To have known it was a JRiver/Win 10 confliction versus a poor install of win10. UGH.
Are any of you with this problem also having issues with copying to the clipboard in office? I've tried all versions of office since 10 and randomly it errors when trying to copy fields in excel. Just wondering if somehow this is related also considering MS couldn't fix this issue either.
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Wow no notification to this post odd. Anyway I'm using auto hide. Nice to know I'm not the only one. Would have been nicer to know about this prior to constantly reloading the computer LOL. To have known it was a JRiver/Win 10 confliction versus a poor install of win10.
This is not a JRiver problem. It is a Win10 problem. It may be fixed.
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Now you mention it, it hasn't happened to me for a week or two.
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Wait and see if it still happens with the Windows 10 Anniversary Update which will be released on Tuesday.
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It's a Windows 10 issue, that's well known.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100712.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=104591.0
Since updating to the latest Insider build (which is likely the Anniversary Update RTM that comes out next week), I've yet to encounter this issue again.
This problem has not been solved so far. just hides (Windows 10.0.10586 version will automatically restart after freeze)
You can view the Event Viewer (Eventvwr.msc)
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This has actually been happening more frequently on my HTPC lately. And it hasn't always been restarting nicely either (without needing a reboot).
Annoying. Is there some API MC is supposed to be following for Windows 10 that they aren't? Does anyone know more information on how to make it not do this (aside from "use Windows Forms")? I looked. There really doesn't seem to be anything about this out there. It is just broken.
There is this new troubleshooter from Microsoft though (in the Try the Troubleshooter section):
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/12385/windows-10-troubleshoot-problems-opening-start-menu-cortana
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I too suffer from this problem, hopefully the new build of Windows 10 will solve it.
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I've used Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/) since Windows 8. Has worked fine for me on Win 10 thus far.
Love the option of being a dinosaur and sticking to a Win7 style modus operandi. I think that it has a better look/feel than the Win10 retro Win7'ish offering.
Give it a try is my suggestion. Ditch if you don't like it. Couldn't hurt to give it a go.
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This is not a JRiver problem. It is a Win10 problem. It may be fixed.
My dad had the issue on two computers and I've had the issue on two computers. My dad systematically started uninstalling all unused programs on his computers and found that uninstalling Media Center 20 on both computers solved the issue. I then did the same to both of my computers with the issue. I no longer have any Start bar issues. I don't think MC20 was even being used on the computers when they were upgraded to Windows 10.
For those with the issue, I'm curious if MC20 is still installed on your PC.
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I see the same thing here, but usually a restart of the "Explorer.exe" task from task manager will sort me out without going through a full restart.
brad
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Anyone update to the anniversary edition and have this problem still? Downloading it now.
Just FYI I ran into this:
[ link removed by JimH ]
It claims MS has made a repair tool for this but the link doesn't go to MS so I wouldn't trust downloading it and I can't find the claimed to be MS fix on the MS site anywhere with search. I wouldn't be so sure if it is actually legit or not. I'm not going to chance running that file though since it isn't directly from MS.
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Anyone update to the anniversary edition and have this problem still? Downloading it now.
Just FYI I ran into this:
[ link removed by JimH ]
It claims MS has made a repair tool for this but the link doesn't go to MS so I wouldn't trust downloading it and I can't find the claimed to be MS fix on the MS site anywhere with search. I wouldn't be so sure if it is actually legit or not. I'm not going to chance running that file though since it isn't directly from MS.
No it is not fixed. Any app that gets suspended running under the shellexperiencehost.exe crash's. That means searchui.exe,systemsettings.exe, winsore.exe, microsoftphotos.exe, microsoftweather.exe (and any other app you run). You have to terminate each and every one them, (if you use them). I uninstalled jriver media center and the problem goes away, which sucks really. There is an operability problem between shellexperiencehost.exe and MC. I doubt this will be fixed by Microsoft , as the system runs fine with everything else. I was hoping the JRiver Devs could find a way around it.
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Yes, I can confirm that unfortunately the Anniversary update has not cured the issue on my systems.
BTW I have an updated version of my powershell script (mc_mcws.ps1) that only terminates processes if they are suspended, anyone interested in me publishing it?
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Yes, I can confirm that unfortunately the Anniversary update has not cured the issue on my systems.
BTW I have an updated version of my powershell script (mc_mcws.ps1) that only terminates processes if they are suspended, anyone interested in me publishing it?
Yes!!!!groove music suckssss!!!!
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OK chris365, I just need to tidy up the documentation for the updated version of mc_mcws.ps1.
I will add it as a new reply to the thread referenced in my signature over the week-end.
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Yes, I can confirm that unfortunately the Anniversary update has not cured the issue on my systems.
Do you have older versions of Media Center still on your systems? Removing those has cured the issue on my systems.
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Do you have older versions of Media Center still on your systems? Removing those has cured the issue on my systems.
I have already uninstalled MC. I am going to clean any left overs then reinstall. I see what happens then.
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Do you have older versions of Media Center still on your systems? Removing those has cured the issue on my systems.
I unfortunately only have MC 21 since it's a fairly new reload of win 10. So I myself am unable to remove old installs and add my results of this. :-( Wish it were this simple for me.
I will say that from about 7pm-10pm tonight we were streaming to the living room tv and I currently have the start menu still. This is after doing the anniversary update today. Not sure if it's just fluke scenario or what.
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I cleaned everything from the registry, no trace of MC. I reinstalled (MC 22) and shell integration was already disabled. Stock set up, no DLNA and all is working fine so far. About 2 hours (thats the first) playing media without problems on the win10 update. Long term testing will be carried tomorrow to make sure. Fingers crossed.
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Do you have older versions of Media Center still on your systems? Removing those has cured the issue on my systems.
I will try removing MC21 from my htpc over the week-end and test with only MC22 installed and see what happens.
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There is an operability problem between shellexperiencehost.exe and MC. I doubt this will be fixed by Microsoft , as the system runs fine with everything else. I was hoping the JRiver Devs could find a way around it.
It doesn't run fine with everything else. Please read the posts on this and search on the Internet. It's a Microsoft bug and it's likely they will fix it.
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It doesn't run fine with everything else. Please read the posts on this and search on the Internet. It's a Microsoft bug and it's likely they will fix it.
I stand corrected.
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I will try removing MC21 from my htpc over the week-end and test with only MC22 installed and see what happens.
Uninstalled MC21- one hour of video from MC22, no Start Menu..ah well it was worth a try...
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this issue fixed in Redstone update!
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this issue fixed in Redstone update!
There are users here who say otherwise - I wouldn't be quick to say it's fixed. That said, I've yet to encounter the issue in a good while now and I've got MC open a lot these days.
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Ach, I spoke too soon.. just had it again. And that's after whatever updates may have happened. How can you release software where a defining feature does not work? Do people get paid for this?
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I've found that after installing the Anniversary update, occasionally the start menu won't open on the first click, but it will open on the second every time. YMMV.
My guess is that they included some code to reset the start menu state each time it is clicked. This normally should be happening automatically, but at least it is getting triggered manually now.
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I've found that after installing the Anniversary update, occasionally the start menu won't open on the first click, but it will open on the second every time. YMMV.
My guess is that they included some code to reset the start menu state each time it is clicked. This normally should be happening automatically, but at least it is getting triggered manually now.
After hours of testing, this is what I am getting too.
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I've found that after installing the Anniversary update, occasionally the start menu won't open on the first click, but it will open on the second every time. YMMV.
My guess is that they included some code to reset the start menu state each time it is clicked. This normally should be happening automatically, but at least it is getting triggered manually now.
I have seen this behaviour as well.
If you check the application log in Event Viewer you should find the crashes relating to each time the Start Menu doesn't trigger.
If you try and run Settings this will frequently crash also and then need to be restarted.
That is why I am again continuing to use my vbscript/powershell solution (described in the thread referenced in my signature), Start Menu and Settings respond every time and no crashes occur. I will post the latest revisions of the scripts to that thread in the near future.
I am beginning to think that this problem may never go away with MC/Windows10 for SOME users (but certainly not all).
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I have seen this behaviour as well.
If you check the application log in Event Viewer you should find the crashes relating to each time the Start Menu doesn't trigger.
If you try and run Settings this will frequently crash also and then need to be restarted.
That is why I am again continuing to use my vbscript/powershell solution (described in the thread referenced in my signature), Start Menu and Settings respond every time and no crashes occur. I will post the latest revisions of the scripts to that thread in the near future.
I am beginning to think that this problem may never go away with MC/Windows10 for SOME users (but certainly not all).
Yes, I can concur the crashes and settings crash in event viewer. Awaiting your solution sir! ;)
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Yes, I can concur the crashes and settings crash in event viewer. Awaiting your solution sir! ;)
@chris365 I've sent you a personal message regarding the revised scripts.
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@chris365 I've sent you a personal message regarding the revised scripts.
Downloading now. I'll check it out tonight and tomorrow, and let you know how it runs on my system. Thanks ;D
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@chris365 I've sent you a personal message regarding the revised scripts.
I'm having a hard time getting the vbs script. I have everything else.
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There are users here who say otherwise - I wouldn't be quick to say it's fixed. That said, I've yet to encounter the issue in a good while now and I've got MC open a lot these days.
sometimes happend, on a first click menu doesnt show up but if you click again the menu showed up with some delay but works and will contiunue to work till a restart and the problem recerate again
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I've found that after installing the Anniversary update, occasionally the start menu won't open on the first click, but it will open on the second every time. YMMV.
My guess is that they included some code to reset the start menu state each time it is clicked. This normally should be happening automatically, but at least it is getting triggered manually now.
indeed mate! at least it worked!
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I've found that after installing the Anniversary update, occasionally the start menu won't open on the first click, but it will open on the second every time. YMMV.
My guess is that they included some code to reset the start menu state each time it is clicked. This normally should be happening automatically, but at least it is getting triggered manually now.
Yes, they seem to have included some way for it to recover. After this recovery launching any UWP app immediately quits too, and the notification center automatically discards all notifications. (a very bad failure-state in my opinion)
However I am still experiencing times when I have to restart explorer manually or log out/in to access the start menu or jump lists on pinned applications.
There are very few things that actually seem improved in Windows 10 from my point of view.
The new virtual desktop feature is nice, but it's very bare-bones compared to something like OSX's Spaces feature.
DirectX 12 support is the main reason that I upgraded, but so far there's yet to be anything which really takes advantage of it.
Eventually there will be features like HDR video playback that require Windows 10 though.
But right now I'm just experiencing a lot of compatibility issues with old apps/games, and basic OS functionality seems to be quite unreliable. A poor state of affairs.
Everything about Windows 10 from Microsoft seems to be one step forwards, two steps back.
I'm sure they'll eventually get things under control, but I'd rather be back on Windows 8.1 right now.
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Yes, they seem to have included some way for it to recover. After this recovery launching any UWP app immediately quits too, and the notification center automatically discards all notifications. (a very bad failure-state in my opinion)
Exact same experience! Work around, not a solution.
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I've found that after installing the Anniversary update, occasionally the start menu won't open on the first click, but it will open on the second every time. YMMV.
My guess is that they included some code to reset the start menu state each time it is clicked. This normally should be happening automatically, but at least it is getting triggered manually now.
After further use I have found this menu reset only occurs once, If I have a Start Menu 'recovery' and then carry on using MC the next time I go to use the Start Menu it fails and won't recover (same as before the Anniversary update). Sigh... :(
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After further use I have found this menu reset only occurs once, If I have a Start Menu 'recovery' and then carry on using MC the next time I go to use the Start Menu it fails and won't recover (same as before the Anniversary update). Sigh... :(
For what it's worth, this has not been my experience thus far. I can "recover" the start menu, go back to a lengthy MC session and "recover" the start menu again. Double checked this yesterday.
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For what it's worth, this has not been my experience thus far. I can "recover" the start menu, go back to a lengthy MC session and "recover" the start menu again. Double checked this yesterday.
I am so happy for you....this problem has many manifestations on different systems including the severity with which it affects the user experience.
Many users report no issue at all with Windows 10 and MC or very infrequent 'glitches'.
I am being quite sincere when I say I am glad the update has improved your experience.
Terry
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I had this experience, along with stuttering sound due to CPU spiking (Old atom / Ion setup). Ended up going back to Windows 7. Rock solid.
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Not sure if it's related but I had lots of clients/users complain of Start Menu not working in Windows 10 and we discovered it was a compatibility issue between Windows 10 and DropBox. Not everyone gets afflicted but those that are, get immediately rectified when we uninstall DropBox.
https://www.google.ca/?ion=1&espv=2#q=Windows+10+DropBox+Start+menu (https://www.google.ca/?ion=1&espv=2#q=Windows+10+DropBox+Start+menu)
-H
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So, this morning, I got a reply from Microsoft support in regards to my start menu not working after the anniversary update. Their "Official Word" [bleah] is that the start menu problem I am experiencing is categorically not their fault. I need to uninstall Malwarebytes, Avast, ASC, Dropbox, AND JRiver MediaCenter. "These applications do not work with Windows 10. You need to take your issues up with the developers of these products"
After that load of crap, My wife has made the unilateral decision that since she has to use my computer that I "will" be uninstalling JRiver. It does not matter that I use JRiver for all of our media.
I just love being between a rock and a hard place.
:'(
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So, this morning, I got a reply from Microsoft support in regards to my start menu not working after the anniversary update. Their "Official Word" [bleah] is that the start menu problem I am experiencing is categorically not their fault. I need to uninstall Malwarebytes, Avast, ASC, Dropbox, AND JRiver MediaCenter. "These applications do not work with Windows 10. You need to take your issues up with the developers of these products"
After that load of crap, My wife has made the unilateral decision that since she has to use my computer that I "will" be uninstalling JRiver. It does not matter that I use JRiver for all of our media.
I just love being between a rock and a hard place.
:'(
i believe this mate in my situation only jr cause this but i love the app so much....
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Do you and your wife have separate logons to the shared computer? If so, create a script that stops MC and cycles Explorer when you wife logs on. If not, create a desktop icon that runs a script that stops MC and cycles Explorer.
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JRiver is by far the best application for music and other media that I have ever come across. I really don't want to uninstall it.
(I also don't want my wife making my life a living hell for a week because I refuse to do what she wants.)
Anyone have some advice?
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Do you and your wife have separate logons to the shared computer? If so, create a script that stops MC and cycles Explorer when you wife logs on. If not, create a desktop icon that runs a script that stops MC and cycles Explorer.
Yes we have separate accounts, but she is having the same problem that I am. And cycling explorer.exe does not fix the problem.
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JRiver is by far the best application for music and other media that I have ever come across. I really don't want to uninstall it.
(I also don't want my wife making my life a living hell for a week because I refuse to do what she wants.)
Anyone have some advice?
have you tried a clean windows 10 latest update setup with usb creator?
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JRiver is by far the best application for music and other media that I have ever come across. I really don't want to uninstall it.
(I also don't want my wife making my life a living hell for a week because I refuse to do what she wants.)
Anyone have some advice?
I am currently completing testing (thanks chris635) on a new version of my scripting solution (original version is referenced in my signature), the new version will reset Windows 10 processes only when MC has been actually playing for more than 30 minutes and doesn't require MCWS to be running. It is a single vbscript that sits in the background.
It may help you keep the peace with your loved one
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I am currently completing testing (thanks chris365) on a new version of my scripting solution (original version is referenced in my signature), the new version will reset Windows 10 processes only when MC has been actually playing for more than 30 minutes and doesn't require MCWS to be running. It is a single vbscript that sits in the background.
It may help you keep the peace with your loved one
Yes, terry@nz is really working on something good for us. Testing is ongoing, so hang in there.
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Thing is, the Start Menu doesn't work right from the boot. with nothing else running. I don't get it. And I certainly don't see how it's MC's fault.
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Thing is, the Start Menu doesn't work right from the boot. with nothing else running. I don't get it. And I certainly don't see how it's MC's fault.
OH I see :o, my script will not fix that. I think unfortunately you may be one of the many 'Anniversary Update Victims', the Websphere is unfortunately full of horror stories.
Not having a Start Menu from boot is definitely NOT a symptom of the MC/Windows10 interaction problem that I see. (Start Menu and Apps crashing after MC has been PLAYING for longer than about 40 minutes).
If you uninstall MC does the Start Menu reappear?
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Thing is, the Start Menu doesn't work right from the boot. with nothing else running. I don't get it. And I certainly don't see how it's MC's fault.
I agree with terry@nz. I did a fresh reinstall after the update with the new build.
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Manually restarting Explorer isn't a proper fix either.
I have a number of applications that disappear from the system tray when you do this, which makes them inaccessible, and some programs don't behave correctly after restarting Explorer either, unless you restart them. (losing the current session)
I have to fully log out/in or reset the PC.
I wonder if the way that JRiver implements the taskbar media controls affects this too, as I've disabled the shell extensions and still have problems after JRiver has been running for a while.
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@terry@nz I Had been using your scripts before the Aniversary Update. They had been really helpful. I look forward to the new iteration.
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Manually restarting Explorer isn't a proper fix either.
I have a number of applications that disappear from the system tray when you do this, which makes them inaccessible, and some programs don't behave correctly after restarting Explorer either, unless you restart them. (losing the current session)
Totally agree, that is why my new script solution terminates only suspended W10 processes (including Modern Apps) and leaves all traditional applications and the system tray intact. It also only does this after MC has been playing for long enough for the problem to occur.
I can leave MC open for days importing, tagging etc and the Start Menu and Modern Apps are completely unaffected so there is no point terminating W10 processes unless MC has been playing for 40 minutes or so.
I will hopefully post the new version soon.
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@terry@nz I Had been using your scripts before the Aniversary Update. They had been really helpful. I look forward to the new iteration.
Glad the original script was helpful, new one soon.
As regards your Start Menu problem have you tried creating a new user account and logging in with it?
You also might like to try the following from an Administrator command window:
sfc /scannow
if the above gives errors or doesn't complete try
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /StartComponentCleanup
Wait for it to complete then run
Dism /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth
Good luck
Terry
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Glad the original script was helpful, new one soon.
As regards your Start Menu problem have you tried creating a new user account and logging in with it?
You also might like to try the following from an Administrator command window:
sfc /scannow
New user had the same problem, and SFC found no errors. I have tried rolling back the install, but it appears anniversary ate the rollback...
I really don't want to do a bare iron re-install ... just loading all the apps again...ugh...
I am still trying to find solutions before nuking.
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I finally succeeded in rolling back the anniversary update. My start menu works again. I can right click it and launch all (any of) the contexts again!!! :)
*EDIT* 0300 my time.
Nope stopped working again after the next reboot. Right-click on the start menu and none of the listed contexts actually work.... :(
And it starts working again after another reboot
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The anniversary update improved things with regard to the start menu/taskbar not responding, it just didn't fix them. You're better off having it installed.
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The anniversary update improved things with regard to the start menu/taskbar not responding, it just didn't fix them. You're better off having it installed.
its not true the anniversary update fix the start menu in most cases, you just need a clean setup or a succesful upgrade!
i believe its the app compability causes this caused only with JR and 1 or 2 more apps....
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The anniversary update improved things with regard to the start menu/taskbar not responding, it just didn't fix them. You're better off having it installed.
I hear you, but the start menu right-clicked contexts didn't work for me under the AU which was not better for me. I mentioned up above, after the response I got from MS my wife made a unilateral decision that I would be removing MC from _my_ computer simply because she has to use my computer. That was not an acceptable solution.
I can live without the AU until it gets fixed.
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Wouldn't it be easier to set up a separate user account for her than removing JRiver?
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She IS running as a separate user. (And no creating a new admin acct did NOT fix the issue.)
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Make sure you have the shell extensions disabled.
If JRiver isn't running, it seems like another program must be causing this?
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I'm going to be so excited that one day when dism or sfc actually fixes a problem I'm having. You know what they say about your first time...
-tm
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Make sure you have the shell extensions disabled.
If JRiver isn't running, it seems like another program must be causing this?
Please read my posts, starting with Reply #49.
As far as shell extensions it was one of the first things I tried. It did not change anything. Rolling Windows back to build 1511 DID fix the problem. So, no, the AU release is not a solution for me right now.
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I'm going to be so excited that one day when dism or sfc actually fixes a problem I'm having. You know what they say about your first time...
-tm
Well, those sfc and dism commands above have just recently fixed my own Anniversary Update issues, but I wasn't remotely excited because it wasn't my first time........for that and many other things, it's the one benefit of growing old ;)
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Here's a workaround: use Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/). I've been using it for years as a substitute for the Windows start menu, and it has been rock solid. Have been on Win 10-64 since a month after its release.
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Well the new problem since the Anniversary update is the whole dang taskbar comes up blank. No icons non zip ziltch. No windows start button no quick access buttons, time nothing. Clicking where those icons would be does jack either. Man MS is doing good with this forced on product. ::)
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It's a Windows 10 issue, that's well known.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100712.0
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=104591.0
Since updating to the latest Insider build (which is likely the Anniversary Update RTM that comes out next week), I've yet to encounter this issue again.
It is likely a JRiver bug than a Windows issue, I have it only on the machines with JRiver installed.
And yes, sadly, it continues after upgrading to recent Windows version :(
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Read the threads on this here and search on the Internet. It isn't a JRiver bug.
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kyour might check those steps in the link in the cause you need a wordaround
http://www.urtech.ca/2015/05/solved-windows-10-start-menu-and-modern-apps-do-not-function
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the dropbox client also cause this
https://www.dropboxforum.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/203581953-DB-cause-Windows-10-Critical-Error-Start-Menu-failure
i dont blame any app, but maybe a incompability or something...
the os at it self not always is the core of the problem
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Here's a workaround: use Classic Shell (http://www.classicshell.net/). I've been using it for years as a substitute for the Windows start menu, and it has been rock solid. Have been on Win 10-64 since a month after its release.
Finally an echo of my suggestion back at Reply #14 (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106170.msg739184#msg739184).
I recently forced the Anniversary update for Win 10 and here's the status report:
- Before - No issues
- After - No issues
For some here, it may be worth avoiding domestic aggravation to try something that 2 other users find useful. Just sayin' .. ;)
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Finally an echo of my suggestion back at Reply #14 (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106170.msg739184#msg739184).
I recently forced the Anniversary update for Win 10 and here's the status report:
- Before - No issues
- After - No issues
For some here, it may be worth avoiding domestic aggravation to try something that 2 other users find useful. Just sayin' .. ;)
Yes that gets you around the start menu problem. It doesn't for any modern apps you use, as they crash as well because they are suspended like shellexperiencehost.exe and searchui.exe.
terrym@nz is working on a viable solution that works perfectly. terrym@nz should be publishing soon. Making sure everything works correctly.
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Not sure what's defined as a "modern app"?
If that's any of the M$ Win10 Apps, then that would explain why I've got no collateral issues. My installations avoided the M$ account since Win8 and I've set up as a local installation only. I took a sceptical view of M$'s motives with the account philosophy and I've also avoided the M$ Apps as a result by default.
Not such a bad choice in hindsight given this kind of report:
- Security Issue in Windows leaks Login Data (https://www.perfect-privacy.com/blog/2016/08/01/security-issue-in-windows-leaks-login-data/)
Regardless of whether it has validity, the approach that I've taken means that I've got one less cyber-security concern to worry about (at least I think that's the case).
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Finally an echo of my suggestion back at Reply #14 (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106170.msg739184#msg739184).
I recently forced the Anniversary update for Win 10 and here's the status report:
- Before - No issues
- After - No issues
For some here, it may be worth avoiding domestic aggravation to try something that 2 other users find useful. Just sayin' .. ;)
Any of the alternative start menus will "fix" the problem. The Microsoft Start Menu will still crash, but you'll not notice if you're only using an alternative start menu to launch applications. Any of the alternative start menus, like Classic Shell, Stardock Start10, StartIsBack, or others, will continue working even while the Microsoft start menu and other parts of the explorer shell are not responding. I consider using an alternative start menu to be more of a kludge style fix than a proper fix.
I've been using StartIsBack as a start menu replacement. StartIsBack continues to work even while the official Microsoft start menu, or other parts of the explorer shell, is not responding.
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Not sure what's defined as a "modern app"?
If that's any of the M$ Win10 Apps, then that would explain why I've got no collateral issues. My installations avoided the M$ account since Win8 and I've set up as a local installation only. I took a sceptical view of M$'s motives with the account philosophy and I've also avoided the M$ Apps as a result by default.
Not such a bad choice in hindsight given this kind of report:
- Security Issue in Windows leaks Login Data (https://www.perfect-privacy.com/blog/2016/08/01/security-issue-in-windows-leaks-login-data/)
Regardless of whether it has validity, the approach that I've taken means that I've got one less cyber-security concern to worry about (at least I think that's the case).
Modern app being...
WinStore.exe
Calculator.exe
Microsoft.MSN.Weather.exe
SystemSettings.exe (this is an app and it will fail too.)
Just to name a few, oh and Microsoft edge. I do use some apps. Not everyone does, thats why they don't notice it as much. So yes a third party start menu will cure start menu problems, but the moment you try to use any of these apps, it will crash.
This isn't so much a start menu problem. It is problem with how apps get suspended (think of hibernate, when you close out the app, it starts back up and goes to sleep if you will).
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Thanks Frobozz and chris635 - the insight provided is appreciated.
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Thanks Frobozz and chris635 - the insight provided is appreciated.
Look at the screen shot I made, you can see all apps suspended in dark gray. The start menu resides in the ShellExperienceHost.exe and SearchUI.exe. Once you click on the start menu, these two come out of the suspended state. Any of the other apps will do the same if you are using them. Once you stop using them, some close out then reopen into a suspended state, others go right into the suspended state. The problem is JRiver MC and Windows 10 are not communicating well once this happens. Now it should not happen with MC open and not playing, but once you start playing something, within 30 to 50 min, the crashes will start.
terrym@nz is simplifying his script to terminate all suspended apps (with no errors). Testing is ongoing and looks promising.
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Seem like this is system specific. But a couple weeks ago I was browsing around and found something that seems to work (for me at least). Can't remember where I found it either.
Anyways, I scheduled the following to run every night... taskkill /IM ShellExperienceHost.exe /F
I realized yesterday that my start button had worked for 2 weeks...but it didn't work yesterday. So I manually ran it, and voila...menu popped right up.
Hope this might help some others..
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Where do I start. First off, this has been happening since the Betas of Windows 10. Secondly, Microsoft is Blaming JRiver and JRiver is blaming Microsoft. It's been 2+ years now and no one is working with Microsoft to resolve this issue. Lastly, no one should have to run Scripts and no one should have to pay $50 for something that causes a malfunction to surface with the Operating System. The only reason why I keep using JRiver is because I am a loyal customer to a media player that has Awesome features. This issue is not going to go away anytime soon.
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Where do I start. First off, this has been happening since the Betas of Windows 10. Secondly, Microsoft is Blaming JRiver and JRiver is blaming Microsoft. It's been 2+ years now and no one is working with Microsoft to resolve this issue. Lastly, no one should have to run Scripts and no one should have to pay $50 for something that causes a malfunction to surface with the Operating System. The only reason why I keep using JRiver is because I am a loyal customer to a media player that has Awesome features. This issue is not going to go away anytime soon.
That's because the argument has been framed completely wrong. Most every one has been complaining about the start menu not working. This is not the real issue. The problem is with suspended apps. The start menu is tied to SearchUI.exe and ShellExperienceHost.exe. These get suspended as well as the WinStore.exe, Calculator.exe. Microsoft.Photos.exe...etc. Any app that gets suspended will crash after about 30 to 50 min of playing something in MC (MC can be open not playing and this will not happen). This happens with Foobar, and Media Monkey. It does not happen with itunes or VLC. terrym@nz is almost done with his new script..(I have also been testing it). It will terminate any suspended app after a certain time frame. terrym@nz can elaborate further once he releases it. I think most people will be impressed with his work.
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That's because the argument has been framed completely wrong. Most every one has been complaining about the start menu not working. This is not the real issue. The problem is with suspended apps. The start menu is tied to SearchUI.exe and ShellExperienceHost.exe. These get suspended as well as the WinStore.exe, Calculator.exe. Microsoft.Photos.exe...etc. Any app that gets suspended will crash after about 30 to 50 min of playing something in MC (MC can be open not playing and this will not happen). This happens with Foobar, and Media Monkey. It does not happen with itunes or VLC. terrym@nz is almost done with his new script..(I have also been testing it). It will terminate any suspended app after a certain time frame. terrym@nz can elaborate further once he releases it. I think most people will be impressed with his work.
my point was that we should not have to run any scripts, it should just work after 2 years.
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my point was that we should not have to run any scripts, it should just work after 2 years.
I agree with you, however this is the only option as of now.
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Happy to report that one of the more recent (anniversary?) updates seems to have solved the issue for me.
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So, this morning, I got a reply from Microsoft support in regards to my start menu not working after the anniversary update. Their "Official Word" [bleah] is that the start menu problem I am experiencing is categorically not their fault. I need to uninstall Malwarebytes, Avast, ASC, Dropbox, AND JRiver MediaCenter. "These applications do not work with Windows 10. You need to take your issues up with the developers of these products"
We swear, it isn't us. It is mere coincidence that all of those applications (and many others), which work fine on previous versions of Windows, and even those that don't hook into the explorer.exe process at all, somehow manage to deadlock it. Windows 10 works perfectly when you remove all of the applications you want to use it with.
And it absolutely has nothing to do with the fact that we fired our entire QA department midway through the development of Windows 10. Nope. Not at all. Nothing to see here. ::)
Even that nonsense would be somewhat excusable if they'd published something for developers saying: Here's how you support Windows 10 without making explorer.exe deadlock. If that document exists somewhere buried on MSDN, I don't know where it is (and, apparently, neither does DropBox, Avast, Adobe, Valve, and a ton of other developers).
Nonsense. The Anniversary update is shaping up to be a crapshow. They broke all the webcams (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/windows-10-anniversary-update-breaks-most-webcams/). They broke their own controllers (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/08/xbox-one-controllers-and-windows-10-pcs-its-all-a-mess-right-now/). It bluescreens when you just simply plug in a Kindle (http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-performance/plugging-in-kindle-is-crashing-windows-10-after/5db0d867-0822-4512-919e-3d7786353f95?page=1&auth=1). Oh, and they forgot to include a whole set of required DLLs and broke PowerShell (http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/kindle-crashes-and-broken-powershell-something-isnt-right-with-windows-10-testing/). How in-all-that-is-holy did that make it through QA? Oh yeah, you fired them. :-X
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^ Nice to see you posting again Glynor. I (we) have missed you. :)
Brian.
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Soon my Internetz will be resurrected!
But, still have about a month and a half before that... :-\
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My experience with this issue goes back to Win 7. For me, this is not a new problem unique to Win 10. This issue is a couple years old at this point.
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Hello Forum Members,
terrym@nz has recently started a new thread with a newer start menu, app problem solution. Works great.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106925.0.html
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Just discovered that terrym@nz has written a script that works around this problem. I'll give it a try this weekend. Fantastic work.
The problem on my machine was reduced with the Anniversary version of Win 10 (click start twice) but fully resurrected with the Creators Update. Would be nice if JRiver incorporated such a script to solve a problem I only experience with JRiver.
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Would be nice if JRiver incorporated such a script to solve a problem I only experience with JRiver.
Well, it's a Windows issue. It's up to Microsoft to fix, honestly (and they've failed to do so thus far). MC isn't the only software which triggers this, from what I read Steam also does.
The workaround script works great though.
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I scheduled the following to run every night... taskkill /IM ShellExperienceHost.exe /F
All my PCs are Windows Creators Update. I just noticed on my desktop that hosts MC, Start button doesn't bring up Start Menu. Grrrrr.... This PC was rebooted yesterday! But MC is almost always open and used to play tracks while ripping, importing, tagging.
Two weeks ago my laptop, which is not used for MC, lost Start Menu. I ran all the scan steps to force Windows Creators Update to repair itself...a painful lengthy process but successful (so far).
Now, with the same problem on my MC-dedicated desktop, I just spotted the above, posted last August. Instead of setting up a schedule for it, I just right-clicked the Start button, selected Run, pasted in "taskkill /IM ShellExperienceHost.exe /F" (without the quotes). This instantly restored my Start menu.
Not a sure thing, and not a justifiable requirement, but quite helpful. I'm putting it in a batch file on my Desktop, which (so-far) seems accessible via right-click even when Start menu is not. I'm also considering a daily scheduled run of the command but wonder, are there side effects to consider when regularly forcing a restart of ShellExperienceHost.exe ?
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All my PCs are Windows Creators Update. I just noticed on my desktop that hosts MC, Start button doesn't bring up Start Menu. Grrrrr.... This PC was rebooted yesterday! But MC is almost always open and used to play tracks while ripping, importing, tagging.
Two weeks ago my laptop, which is not used for MC, lost Start Menu. I ran all the scan steps to force Windows Creators Update to repair itself...a painful lengthy process but successful (so far).
Now, with the same problem on my MC-dedicated desktop, I just spotted the above, posted last August. Instead of setting up a schedule for it, I just right-clicked the Start button, selected Run, pasted in "taskkill /IM ShellExperienceHost.exe /F" (without the quotes). This instantly restored my Start menu.
Not a sure thing, and not a justifiable requirement, but quite helpful. I'm putting it in a batch file on my Desktop, which (so-far) seems accessible via right-click even when Start menu is not. I'm also considering a daily scheduled run of the command but wonder, are there side effects to consider when regularly forcing a restart of ShellExperienceHost.exe ?
See: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106925.0.html
I've had this running for months and never had any issues, just a (finally!) functional start menu.
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Yep, I also use terrym@nz's script and I always have a functional Start Menu as well.
If you have this issue, I recommend using terrym@nz's script!
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I'm trying Terry's script, thanks for the tip.
Since Start Menu sometimes dies on PCs that are not running MC, and since both techniques can be automated via a schedule, I wonder how the outcomes differ? Is it accurate that Terry's is tied to MC activity and resets more than just Start Menu, while DaveG's does only Start Menu and runs no matter what?
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I'm trying Terry's script, thanks for the tip.
Since Start Menu sometimes dies on PCs that are not running MC, and since both techniques can be automated via a schedule, I wonder how the outcomes differ? Is it accurate that Terry's is tied to MC activity and resets more than just Start Menu, while DaveG's does only Start Menu and runs no matter what?
I can't speak for DaveG's, but, as far as Terry's goes, the script is specifically tied to MC while it is running. Yes it does "reset" more than just the start menu. Most apps like Windows Store, Weather and Calculator ..etc for example will be terminated and they will restart on their own. The reason for this is, these apps, while not in use, get put into a suspended state, this where the problems start over time. Any app that is suspended gets terminated, or else it will crash when you click on it. Terry has also set this up, so if you are using an app that would other wise be terminated, will not be, while your using it because it is not suspended, however the exception to this is, the specific app your using must not be minimized. Minimizing also puts it in a suspended state when not used over time. The culprit to all of this seems to be the use of Windows new memory compression and suspension of apps. Hope this helps.
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Thanks to terry@nz!! I run the program using a desktop shortcut with the /nomc option. I select the shortcut at the end of a listening session and everything on my Win 10 machine is operating back to normal. Nice and simple. It's much easier then restarting explorer or logging out and back in. Thanks again for the nice work!!
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Sad to see this issue is still unresolved, but glad to see the script is helping people who encounter the problem.
Thanks to terry@nz!!
Thanks for the feedback, appreciated.
Terry
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Well, it's a Windows issue. It's up to Microsoft to fix, honestly (and they've failed to do so thus far). MC isn't the only software which triggers this, from what I read Steam also does.
The workaround script works great though.
Yeah, but a non-fixed windows issue that affects a program is in the practical sense the issue of the program as well. The customer will see it as a problem caused by the program, no matter the underlying technicalities.
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Yeah, but a non-fixed windows issue that affects a program is in the practical sense the issue of the program as well. The customer will see it as a problem caused by the program, no matter the underlying technicalities.
Well, it is time for the customers to wise-up, as far as I remember this bug was already in Windows 10 pre-release versions. I reported this particular issue to Microsoft through two different channels well ahead of release, and they did diddly-squat to fix it. To shift the blame to anyone except the ones responsible is very counterproductive.
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The work around, w10spk, seems to have stopped working for me.
I use the following command to initiate:
C:\Windows\System32\cscript.exe "C:\Users\Computer\Documents\JRiver\vbscript fix\w10spk.vbs" /nomc /log
The log says:
w10spk reports: Checking for processes eligible for termination
w10spk reports: Running Process: ShellExperienceHost.exe is NOT eligible for termination
w10spk reports: Running Process: SearchUI.exe is NOT eligible for termination
w10spk reports: There were no eligible processes to terminate
Any ideas why the processes can't be terminated?
Thanks!
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W10spk only terminates 'suspended' processes, if the process is 'running' it shouldn't need terminating.
Your log indicates the processes were running so weren't terminated. This is the correct behavior.
When you say w10spk has stopped working does that mean your Start Menu has become unresponsive?
Terry
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When you say w10spk has stopped working does that mean your Start Menu has become unresponsive?
Yes exactly. Is it possible that selecting the start button, after a lengthy MC session, before running w10spk /nomc is the issue?
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Yes exactly. Is it possible that selecting the start button, after a lengthy MC session, before running w10spk /nomc is the issue?
Yes, that is entirely possible, but it has not been reported before.
Why not try running the script from Task Scheduler. That is how I use it.
If you want to test a different behavior for the /nomc switch (termination of running processes) send me a private message and I'll see what I can do (might take a while as I am in the process of moving from New Zealand to Tasmania, Australia).
EDIT: Have attached a revised script for you to test if required. The revised script terminates ShellExperienceHost and SearchUI if they are running or suspended when /nomc is specified, all other processes (Apps etc) are only terminated if suspended.
Please give me feedback via private message, thanks
Terry
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In my experience this only happens with JRiver. It is pretty clear that JRiver is doing something which windows does not like. Instead of waiting for Microsoft to fix this, PLEASE fix this in JRiver! It's easy enough to repeat because it happens on SOOOO many systems. It makes your software unpleasant to use on my systems and apparently MANY other users systems.
I just upgraded to the newest version and am very disappointed that nothing has changed. If this is not fixed this will I will no longer be a JRiver user as my other media players work perfectly :( JRiver users having to killing processes is not an acceptable solution.
Sorry for venting by this has been ongoing for 2 years now!
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It's a Windows 10 bug, not a JRiver Media Center bug - I doubt JRiver could do anything to workaround it anyways. Have you reported it to Microsoft? Microsoft did attempt to fix it somewhat a couple times, but still haven't been fully able to. Have you tried using the script provided by terrym@nz? It does work great as a workaround for this Windows 10 issue. If that's not an acceptable solution, as I said I suggest taking it up with Microsoft to fix their buggy operating system.
P.S. Media Center isn't the only software which triggers this in Windows 10. I've read that Steam and Adobe products can too, so it's up to Microsoft to fix this.
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interesting, could you please lead me (if you have the links handy) to the "known issues" post/statement where this is mentioned -and also to the steam and adobe discussions? not being able to fix it for that long seems awkward for a software company, especially microsoft.
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I'd find Terry's topic about his script, it goes into better detail about the issue.
Otherwise no links handy, I'm currently mobile and on the move for the day but I suggest doing some Googling on the subject especially regarding Steam, etc.
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It really does not matter to me whose "fault" it is. All I know is that I cannot use JRiver anymore because of it. The script is also not an acceptable solution because I am a developer and killing these processes is causing some other development related issues for me.
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It really does not matter to me whose "fault" it is.
It's Microsoft's responsibility.
Honestly, if you want to keep using MC without killing those processes the only other advice is to not use Windows 10 and go back to Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 until Microsoft completely fixes it. Maybe Fall Creators Update will be the one to finally fully fix it? I doubt it, since it seems Microsoft can't do anything right anymore. I guess that's what happens when you lay off the QA team and pass off the responsibility to "Insiders". :P
If that's also not an acceptable solution, I don't have any other advice.
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I think everyone will agree that switching operating system just to run JRiver is a non-starter
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.... is to not use Windows 10 and go back to Windows 7...
The problem occurred for me first under Windows 7. This is not a new Win 10 only issue.
Note: terrym@nz's solution works! I set it up as a shortcut on my desktop and run it after a JRiver session.
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The odd thing is that it isn't a very common problem. We've seen it a few times, but you'd expect more people to be affected. There may be another related factor.
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Terry explains the issue in detail in his script topic (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106925.0.html). The bug is basically where certain processes (start menu, Modern apps, etc.) in a suspended state crash when failing to return to a running state.
But what I'm wondering is if the issue can be prevented programmatically in the first place? What is it MC does in the first place (after playback of 40+ mins) to cause processes to go into a suspended state? Is that what these processes do naturally after X amount of inactivity? Is it even possible to create a workaround or a dedicated application to prevent those processes to go into a suspended state while an app (MC, foobar2000, Steam, Adobe apps, etc) is running/playing back media?
The ideal workaround solution, I'm thinking, would be to find a way to prevent those processes from going into a suspended state in the first place (instead of killing/restarting those processes). Maybe some "Windows Process Keep-Alive" workaround is possible? Not sure, honestly.
It'd be better if Microsoft would just fully fix this issue, IMO.
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I just upgraded to the newest version and am very disappointed that nothing has changed. If this is not fixed this will I will no longer be a JRiver user as my other media players work perfectly :( JRiver users having to killing processes is not an acceptable solution.
Sorry for venting by this has been ongoing for 2 years now!
Do you still have MC20 installed on your PC? I mentioned in this thread about a year ago that I uninstalled MC20 on 4 PC's that had the issue and it went away. I've never had the issue since.
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But what I'm wondering is if the issue can be prevented programmatically in the first place? What is it MC does in the first place (after playback of 40+ mins) to cause processes to go into a suspended state? Is that what these processes do naturally after X amount of inactivity? Is it even possible to create a workaround or a dedicated application to prevent those processes to go into a suspended state while an app (MC, foobar2000, Steam, Adobe apps, etc) is running/playing back media?
The processes going into a suspended state is a Windows 10 function, nothing to do with JRiver (Searchui etc suspend almost immediately). It is a design 'feature' to allow Apps to run across varied platforms, being suspended they are eligible to be 'swapped out' if necessary by the OS if it runs short of memory - such as if you are running on a Windows phone for example.
I'm not sure how common a problem the 'JRiver bug' it is but I've seen this bug on 100% of the Windows 10 installations I've worked with.
I have tried many things to eliminate it from my systems with no success (that is a lot of clean installs by the way). But I know it can go away - see Mojave's post above (removing MC20 unfortunately did not work for me though).
Perhaps we could set up a poll to see how many JRiver users are affected- I think a lot a people might just live with it and not report it but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
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I'm not sure how common a problem the 'JRiver bug' it is by I've seen this on 100% of the installations I've worked with.
I have tried many things to eliminate it from my systems with no success (that is a lot of clean installs by the way). But I know it can go away - see Mojave's post above.
Perhaps we could set up a poll to see how many JRiver users are affected- I think a lot a people might just live with it and not report it but I'm happy to be proved wrong.
I too have seen this on every fresh OS install, with nothing else loaded. That being said, nothing still compares to JRiver.
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Announcing Windows 10 Insider Preview Build 16226 for PC (https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2017/06/21/announcing-windows-10-insider-preview-build-16226-pc/#ytFYTBgMjBW6qiCV.97)
"We fixed an issue resulting in Start not working for a small percentage of Insiders on the last flight."
Maybe there is some hope of a fix in the near future.
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I have an issue with jriver freezing the computer if I pause a movie for an extended period (~30 mins).
I am wondering if this freezing could be related to this script (which I run using scheduler)
Anyone else have this problem?
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I got the Start menu problem on all the Windows 10 installations I have done. Maybe 10-15 installations. Its Windows 10 Pro if that has anything to do with it. I also got a problems with DirectX in Theater view slowing the menus down or hanging the MC app completely. Maybe the problems are connected somehow?
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I can also confirm that the problems happens on many clean Pro and Home installs with no other software installed.
For me it happens after ~30 minutes of audio playback. First the start menu suffers delays, then it stops opening altogether. Also right-clicking on task bar icons no longer shows the popup menu and apps like Calculator open but never show their UI. Both WASAPI and default audio outputs have the same problem.
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Hopefully Microsoft fixes it eventually, maybe the Fall Creators Update?
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I am trying to use the w10spk script. It isn't working. I have run setup, choosing the log option. The command line in Task Scheduler is:
wscript.exe "C:\Users\Mark\W10spk\w10spk.vbs"/log
I am worried that it isn't in fact running because there is never a log file. When I choose option 2 in setup to determine Media Centre's status it always says it isn't running but it is.
Am I doing something wrong here?
Mark
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An update. If I run this command:
Cscript //nologo w10spk.vbs /log
Nothing happens
But if I run this command:
Cscript //nologo w10spk.vbs /nomc /log
I get a log file and suspended processes are terminated.
Any reason why the script isn't detecting that MC is running or playing?
Mark
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You might want to post about that in the script's topic: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106925.0.html
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Hi
Is this issue solved yet? Seems like microsoft donīt intend to do anything. I think it is a JRiver problem.
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Hi
Is this issue solved yet? Seems like microsoft donīt intend to do anything. I think it is a JRiver problem.
Microsoft has had nearly three years so far to fix it, however they haven't been fully able to yet.
It's a Windows 10 issue, not JRiver issue. It also can affect other software including Adobe apps, Steam, etc.
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I am skipping buying JRiver 24 this year because this issue overshadows any new features that might have been added. So when it is fixed (In Windows or worked around in JRiver), it would be great if someone could post an update here...
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Please read this:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,113034.0.html
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Thanks for that . I was unaware of this link and appreciate the considerable effort that has gone into working around this Windows bug.
I now disabled animations and will see if the problem improves. If not I will install the script which I am happy to see does not involve killing explorer.exe as I have been doing manually.
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Please use that thread now.