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More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 28 for Windows => Topic started by: SKY1950 on February 24, 2022, 02:10:14 pm
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Hi All,
I am using a Microsoft Surface Laptop 3 loaded with JRiver MC, when connected via USB b cable my ATC CDA Mk2 should play up to DSD 256, when I play the file from MC even hardwired network it buffers, my other Flac files play fine, the DSD file plays on my desktop but my Hi Fi is in a different room, so question is what Surface 3 laptop spec is required to play DSD 256 through MC ?
Thanks Steve
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You're using DSD bitstreaming, right? If you're using DSP Studio > Output Format > Output Encoding set to a DSD option (it should be set to None), it's converting everything to DSD which is heavily resource intensive. DSD bitstreaming on the other hand does not and should be fine.
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If you are bitstreaming DSD files, you do not need much computer power. Since you are buffering, you are probably converting to PCM or using Output Format to convert to DSD, as AD said. Be sure bitstreaming is on when using usb. Audio Path will tell you what MC is doing. Actually converting files to DSD 256 takes a lot of computer power.
If you are using DLNA to play the DSD files over the network, be sure no file conversions are being down in the DLNA setup and that for DLNA under Advanced Bitstream DSD is checked for DoP and not checked for native.
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Hi Guys, thanks for the answers, I have MC DSP studio/output format/output encoding set to none, DSD bitstream set to yes, all other music files are Flac with some Hi Res files, the Flac files play fine through my laptop when using the USB b connection to my ATC cda Mk2 which can also handle DSD 256 the only file to buffer (hardwired) is the DSD 256 so I think the MC is setup right but is the Microsoft Surface 3 okay to stream the file ?
Steve
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What is the processor? Is it sending DoP or native? What does Audio Path say it is sending? Are you using DoP or native?
Sending even DSD 256 is not very taxing on the processor.
The manual says they test with JRiver. You might want to contact them and see if they know of any issues.
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Hi dtc, Sorry I'm not sure on DoP or native, how can i check ? also it is set up as per the ATC guide for JRiver MC, I have sent a message to them and I am waiting an answer.
Steve
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Audio Path should tell you the details of what is playing. It is the gear shaped icon in the upper right. Click on it when playing the track.
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Hi dtc, I had to return the demo ATC so I don't have a DAC to play the DSD file but I have one on order so soon as I get it I will do a check, also should have some feedback from ATC by then, I will update this post.
Thanks
Steve
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Hi all,
Sorry to open this old thread but I have now purchased JRiver and have a new ATC CDA mk2 which I have set up as per their instructions for JRiver, I have loaded my library which are CD ripped flac files, all play fine, however when I play a hi res 192-24 bit Flac or a DSD 256 file it buffers, I'm using a Microsoft surface 3 laptop connected by USB wired to ethernet, which should be more than able, on the last post dtc asked about what audio path it was on so I added a couple of screen shots which may help, any advice would be great
Steve
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Can you connect directly to the DAC via usb? The buffering may be due to the Ethernet connections.
I would also try turning off Play from Memory. There are occasionally buffering problems if the file is very large and does not fit entirely into memory.
Grasping at straws. It should just work.
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Hi dtc,
The usb is direct to the dac on the CDA mk2, but my surface book 3 has Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-1035G7 CPU @ 1.20GHz 1.50 GHz plus 8gb ram, and on the ATC manual it recommends 2.7 GHz and 4gb ram, could that be the problem ?
Steve
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Hi dtc, Just to confirm I did try turn off play from memory, but no joy.
Steve
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I am at a loss to explain the problem. That CPU should be plenty to play these formats natively. You might try playing with the buffer sizes and see if that helps. If not, I would contact the manufacturer and see if they have any ideas.
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You might check to see if it's on a low power setting. Somewhere in Windows.
Plugging it in might use a different setting.
Antivirus can slow things down.
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for the suggestions, I think the laptop has a battery low power mode, I'll try mains and settings and report back.
Steve
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Hi All, I used mains power to run some tests and now Hi Res 192KHz 24bit Flac plays fine unfortunately the DSD 256 file still buffers, tried different settings in memory but no change, can I change the setting between Native and DoP to test ?
Steve
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You might try contacting the device manufacturer and see if the DAC only supports DoP or both DoP and native DSD. If DoP is supported, it *should* work through WASAPI exclusive along with ASIO, assuming your DAC has a ASIO driver available. If ASIO is an option, in MC's Options > Audio > Device settings there should be a Bitstream DSD in DoP option which will enable DoP. Unchecking that box will force native DSD - WASAPI Exclusive on the other hand is DoP only, so that may be worth experimenting with as well.
The DAC's specs aren't very clear about what it supports, but it does mention this...
Supported DSD Rates:
Windows: DSD64, DSD128 and DSD256
MacOS: DSD64 and DSD128
This does imply that it does support at least DoP, since DoP is the only option for DSD on macOS and it doesn't support DSD256 on macOS (but does on Windows, which would require native DSD support along with DoP for macOS). But yeah, other than that, it's kinda odd that it's not working for you, it *should*.
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DSD256 uses 705 KHz for DoP. The specs do not say that the DAC supports 705 KHz, although it may. My guess is you need native and therefore ASIO for DSD 256. But trying DoP with Wasapi is worth a try. Wasapi will automatically do DoP. It does not support native DSD. As AD says, using ASIO there should be a check box option to use DoP.
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Looking at your screen shots you are bitstreaming DSD 256 (as you have said) and that doesn't take much CPU power at all (as others have said). I may have missed it somewhere in the thread, but where are the audio files located? If the notebook is pulling the files from somewhere on your network that could easily explain pauses, especially if WiFi is involved somewhere in the connection.
My DAC (exaSound e22) isn't visible to Windows directly. It requires an ASIO driver - and it doesn't do DoP. It sounds like your DAC has the same constraints. If your DAC doesn't show up as an output device in the Windows sound setup it will not work with WASAPI or DoP.
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Hi Guys, Thanks for the helpfull suggestions, I set Bitstream DSD in DoP still buffing, tried all the WASAPI settings, still buffing, the files are on my Qnap NAS drive, I had the laptop on mains power, hard wired to ethernet, the drivers are downloaded from the ATC website, they have a setup for the ATC CDA2-CD-DAC Preamp images attached, using these settings the problem files are Flac 192KHz 24 bit and DSD 256, Flac 44KHz and 96KHz 24 bit seem okay, I have contacted ATC but still waiting for a reply
Thanks again for the help
Steve
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In that case, it sounds like the NAS and perhaps the network is the bottleneck here. You can verify this by copying some DSD256 files from the NAS to the local drive of your PC, then import them into Media Center and try to play them. If the local DSD256 files play without buffering then it's 100% your NAS and/or network.
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Hi AD, thanks for the suggestion, I copied 1 Flac 192 KHz 24 bit and 1 DSD 256 to a folder and imported to MC but still buffing, I have a Linn DSM 3 and although it does not support DSD it plays all my Flac files with no problem, did you look at my screen shots of the MC setup ? have I set it up correctly ?
Thanks for all help
Steve
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I copied 1 Flac 192 KHz 24 bit and 1 DSD 256 to a folder and imported to MC but still buffing,
Is the folder on a local drive? (inside your computer)
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Hi Jim,
I have my music files on a Qnap nas to access from my Microsoft Surface 3 Laptop, but to test AD's suggestion I copied the 2 files direct from a PC hard drive to a usb stick then plugged that into my laptop to import into MC, I've attached some image of the ATC CDA 2 setup for JRiver which is how I set the laptop up, I had an answer from ATC they think it's a laptop setup problem ?
Thanks for any help
Steve
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Playing the files from a USB stick isn't the same as playing from an internal drive, but did it still buffer? If so, copy them to the hard disk inside the PC and try there.
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It's also not clear whether you're testing with a USB connection or with a network connection or both. The device you're playing to may have different capabilities for each.
If you're using a network connection, it's possible that conversion is occurring in MC's DLNA Server. You can edit the conversion settings.
The DSD files are very large so limited network bandwidth could be the cause. Especially when your files are also on a network source.
A test with the playback destination device directly connected via a short USB cable might tell you something.
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It's also not clear whether you're testing with a USB connection or with a network connection or both.
According to the screen shot above, Audio Path shows a connection using ASIO. So, no DLNA.
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Hi Guys,
I am connecting my Surface 3 laptop to the ATC cda2 via usb lead, the 192 Khz Flac and 256 DSD buffer when hard wired or wi fi on network, also the audio path is set as per ATC using ASIO, do you suggest DLNA if how do I set that ?
Sorry I'm not technical
Steve
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I am connecting my Surface 3 laptop to the ATC cda2 via usb lead, the 192 Khz Flac and 256 DSD buffer when hard wired or wi fi on network, also the audio path is set as per ATC using ASIO, do you suggest DLNA if how do I set that ?
Still unclear to me. You're saying USB, hard wired (Ethernet?), and wi fi. All at the same time?
The best test would be
PC connected via short USB cable (under 10 feet) to the playback device, playing media from the hard drive of the PC. If you do that, post results and audio settings you're using.
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Hi Jim,
The hi res files buffer with ethernet hard wired or on wi fi, I am using my laptop with MC connected to my atc cda 2 via a usb cable, should I try it disconnected from the internet ?
Steve
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Set memory playback to none (ie turn it off). Copy the file to your C: drive. Play it from there. If you have a USB hub between your laptop and the DAC remove it and connect the DAC directly to the laptop's USB port. If you are using an "audiophile" USB cable replace it with a standard USB cable. If you have any kind of USB "cleanup" device between the laptop and the DAC remove it.
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Hi DJLegba, Thanks for the suggestion, I did try turn off memory playback but no change, Hi Res still buffing, file is copied to the laptop drive, using MC to play on the laptop, connected with a standard short usb direct to an ATC CDA 2 which is set as per ATC recommendations, Audio Path and settings images as per previous post.
Steve
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just to test: check "Output Format" in DSP Studio and see what the result will be. No memory playback.
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Hi AGAWA, well I set as your suggestions and checking output format has played Hi Res fine, what does the tick box change ? I will do more testing tomorrow just to be sure
Steve
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I do not know. I looked at ATC's settings , they say that with this box unticked no processing will be performed. But I guess that DSP Studio settings decide what will be done with the signal. Creators of MC will be able to answer this question.
MC is very complex and who knows what are the insights.
I had several issues solved by just experimenting with the settings.
Good luck. Be brave. And you will be rewarded with superb sound.
My guess is that only when the box is ticked (any of them) then the settings come into force.
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Hi AGAWA, unfortunately my euphoria was short lived, I run quite a few tracks today and buffing started on Flac or DSD Hi Res files, output box ticked/unticked played from memory off/on, I am waiting an answer from ATC, I know the files are good because they play fine on my Linn DSM 3 (not DSD) anyway all suggestions I welcome as I want to resolve the problems.
Steve
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@Sky1950
Did this problem get resolved for you? I have a similar issue with the DAC in my SIA2-100 integreated amp. It uses the same Windows driver as the ATC CDA2. At the moment my unit is in the hands of the Australian ATC importer.
I have had no problems with DSD playback, but am unable to playback anything with a higher sample rate than 48 without significant stutter and interruptions. This means that none of the following PCM files on my internal SSD will play back: 24/96, 24/192, 24/384. Here are some observations about the troubleshooting I've done:
1. The problem isn't unique to MC (I've tried 21, 22 & 30), occurring also when playing back with Qobuz and Foobar2000
2. The same files playback without issue on my two other DACs.
3. All settings made in accordance with ATC's manual, but many iterative changes were tried in buffering and playing from memory settings as well as others. No over sampling or down sampling applied
4. Drivers for all other audio devices were removed for testing and Antivirus set to hibernate
5. The most recent Anamaro (they make the USB card in the ATC products) driver for Windows 10 was tried without success in addition to the driver linked to by ATC on their website.
6. 2 x Standard USB data cable used (1.8m) directly between my Windows 10 laptop (more than powerful enough with Intel i7, 16GB RAM and a 2TB SSD) and the DAC with no intervening devices.
7. According to the dealer in whose hands I've left my unit, the DAC works flawlessly with files of all supported sample rates using Roon > Mac as source.
8. Sidenote: the transformer on my unit has a hum, not noticeable at listening distance while music is playing, but noticeable while listening iva headphone output. Could be a problem with the electronics in my home.
Interested to hear what you did to solve the problem. It's very annoying. While file >24/48 make up less than 10% of my digital library, they are many of my favourite albums.
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Some questions and suggestions.
What does DSP Studio report? Something may be happening that you are not aware of.
Are your DSD and high sample rate PCM files on the same drive? Any networked drives involved.
What antivirus are you using? Disable anything other than Defended and use the thread at the top of this forum to set the exclusions for Media Center in Defender.
You should be able to play high sample rate PCM without any special drivers. So, I would delete the drivers and use Wasapi and see if that works. Wasapi will work for DoP but not for native DSD. Since the device plays DSD on IOS it probably accept DoP format.
Try both Wasapi and Direct Sound.
Are you using DoP for DSD? In either case (DoP or native) you are sending sample rates greater than 48 KHz. Since that works it seems like the problem is not just sample rate.
Is Volume Protection on or off?
Have your dealer try a Windows system.
Contact the manufacturer for suggestions. They seem to have that model working with JRiver.
By the way, ATC makes great speakers. I did not know they made this amp. Fine company.
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Hi GuySmileysMonkey,
I had forgot about this post, I tried the suggestions on this forum but no joy, I sent messages to ATC and had some correspondence but no answers so I gave up trying to play DSD through MC on my Hi Fi, I may try the set up again, what I do know is when I play a 192 - 24 bit Flac file on my Naim streamer which is connected to the ATC CDA 2 sounds great but the same file on MC buffers as did a DSD 256,
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Hi GuySmileysMonkey,
I had forgot about this post, I tried the suggestions on this forum but no joy, I sent messages to ATC and had some correspondence but no answers so I gave up trying to play DSD through MC on my Hi Fi, I may try the set up again, what I do know is when I play a 192 - 24 bit Flac file on my Naim streamer which is connected to the ATC CDA 2 sounds great but the same file on MC buffers as did a DSD 256,
Thanks for responding.
Does your Naim stream have both an inbuilt DAC and digital outputs? If so, do you use the DAC in the CSA 2 or your streamer?
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Some questions and suggestions.
What does DSP Studio report? Something may be happening that you are not aware of.
Are your DSD and high sample rate PCM files on the same drive? Any networked drives involved.
What antivirus are you using? Disable anything other than Defended and use the thread at the top of this forum to set the exclusions for Media Center in Defender.
You should be able to play high sample rate PCM without any special drivers. So, I would delete the drivers and use Wasapi and see if that works. Wasapi will work for DoP but not for native DSD. Since the device plays DSD on IOS it probably accept DoP format.
Try both Wasapi and Direct Sound.
Are you using DoP for DSD? In either case (DoP or native) you are sending sample rates greater than 48 KHz. Since that works it seems like the problem is not just sample rate.
Is Volume Protection on or off?
Have your dealer try a Windows system.
Contact the manufacturer for suggestions. They seem to have that model working with JRiver.
By the way, ATC makes great speakers. I did not know they made this amp. Fine company.
Thank you kindly for these suggestions.
If my dealer can't reproduce the problem and sends the ATC SIA2-100 back to me with the issue unresolved I'll follow through with the steps you've outlined. In the meantime, he does intend testing with a Windows machine. I'll just wait while my newly purchased ATC SCM-11s and ATC C1 sub sit in contemplative silence, wondering why I've deserted them.
Yep - ATC make great speakers. Wish I was listening to them right now LOL..
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Hi GuySmileysMonkey,
I use the RCA connections out of the Naim to RCA inputs of the CDA 2 MK2 so I think I'm using the Naim Dac to the pre amp in the ATC, I have posted the question of JRiver playing DSD 256 to the ATC forum to see if anyone uses this combination, I will update this post if anyone answers !
Steve
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Hi GuySmileysMonkey,
I use the RCA connections out of the Naim to RCA inputs of the CDA 2 MK2 so I think I'm using the Naim Dac to the pre amp in the ATC, I have posted the question of JRiver playing DSD 256 to the ATC forum to see if anyone uses this combination, I will update this post if anyone answers !
Steve
Thanks for that Steve. Much appreciated.
When you say the music is "buffering", what does this mean? Does it play, but with continual interruptions and stuttering of the sound, or does it not make any sound at all?
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Hi GuySmileysMonkey,
Yes it plays but stutters as though the file is too big to play smooth but the smaller files from ripped CD's play fine, no response from ATC as yet.
Steve
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Posting a screenshot of the audio path when playing back a track likely would be very helpful.
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Hi GuySmileysMonkey,
Yes it plays but stutters as though the file is too big to play smooth but the smaller files from ripped CD's play fine, no response from ATC as yet.
Steve
Yep - Same experience as mine.
Yesterday I contacted the dealer helping me with my issue. He tried getting in touch with ATC, but apparently they're closed until 3 January.
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Hi Awesome Donkey,
Unfortunately this is an old thread, but there are images of audio path attached some time back I think.
Steve
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If you're still using memory playback, try disabling that.
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Hi Awesome Donkey,
Just checked Memory Playback is disabled.
Steve
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Hi there @Sky1950.
Have you heard back from ATC? They should be operating again now after the Christmas / New Year break. Speaking of which, hope you had a good one.
Nathan
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Hi Nathan,
I have been it touch with my dealer and he has spoken to ATC, they are sending a CDA MK 2 to the shop and I am going to take my laptop down which is set with the JRiver MC plus DSD 256 and Flac 192 files that stutter, this will at least indicate if it's the CDA or Laptop/JRiver MC problem, I will update this post as soon as I can.
Steve
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I guess another possibility is that there is a problem with the USB driver that ATC supply.
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Hi Steve. Any progress on this yet? I've just spoken with the importer who's been helping me. He's been very helpful but hasn't been able to reproduce the stuttering, concluding that there is nothing wrong with the DAC. This doesn't surprise me, but I'm still left with a DAC that isn't decoding hi-res files properly, whatever the cause. Very frustrating.
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Did you try changing the Power settings on the laptop?
Using another machine in place of the laptop might give you additional clues.
I didn't re-read the thread, but did you try playing a file from the hard drive of the laptop?
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Hi GuySmileysMonkey,
Well took my laptop to my dealer, they connected it to an ATC SIA2 - 100 which they confirmed with ATC is the same DAC-Drivers_Electronics, anyway it started playing a DSD 256 file very well then the buffing started, so I tried a Flac 192k 24 Bit file and the same problem, we was not on internet these were files on the hard drive, anyway they phoned ATC and spoke to the technical guy, so he is going to come back to me next week, so no answers yet but at least it happened on another unit, I will update you when I get more info.
Steve
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Hi JimH,
Tried changing mains, Files on the Hard Drive, Have not tried another lap top yet but did take my lap top to my hi fi dealer and we connected it to an ATC SIA2 which has the same internals as my CDA MK2 and it started buffing on that too so they contacted ATC and I'm waiting for them to come back to me.
Steve
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Turns out that the problem with playback was my power settings on battery power. Thought I'd changed this by selecting "high performance" in Windows settings, but my Acer Nitro laptop has proprietary software that over-rides this. Changed the settings from within this software and all good.... Plays back hi-res material without issue.
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Hi GuySmileysMonkey
Hey, that's good news, I tried changing my Surface Laptop to full power on plugged in windows 10 but it made no difference, I don't know of any other settings in the Surface Laptop that may help ?
Steve
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Hi,
Can anyone advise me if the setup recommended by ATC for the CDA2 should work to play DSD 256 music files on a Microsoft Surface Laptop, using this setup my DSD 256 files stutter, internet is very good and standard Flac files play with no problem, I have attached images from their manual, this is an old problem but any advice would be welcome.
Steve
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Have you tried looking at Windows Task Manager?
How old is the Surface? Try running a benchmark (under the Help Menu) and posting here.
Try a more powerful machine if you have one.
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Hi,
Looked at the task manager while playing JRiver with a dsd file, I run a benchmark, the Surface is 2021 plus 1.20 ghz and i5 CPU, as I'm not sure what I should look for I've added some screenshots, my guess is it may not have enough power ?
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Looked at the task manager while playing JRiver with a dsd file, I run a benchmark, the Surface is 2021 plus 1.20 ghz and i5 CPU, as I'm not sure what I should look for I've added some screenshots, my guess is it may not have enough power ?
Are you using DSD bitstreaming or doing a DSD conversion? If the latter, then nope, probably not powerful enough. If the former, bitstreaming actually uses very little resources to do, as it sends the data as-is to your DAC to decode and not doing any sort of conversion.
A screenshot of MC's Audio Path while attempting playback of a DSD256 file might shed some light.
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Hi, DSD Bitstreaming selected as recommended by ATC, two screenshots, 12 is an DSD 256 21 is a 192 Flac file these are the type of files that buffer, other standard files play fine with the same settings.
Steve
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Looked at the task manager while playing JRiver with a dsd file, I run a benchmark, the Surface is 2021 plus 1.20 ghz and i5 CPU, as I'm not sure what I should look for I've added some screenshots, my guess is it may not have enough power ?
That's a fairly low power machine by today's standards. Do you have another machine you can try? Just to try to isolate where the problem is.