INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 14 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: jmone on May 15, 2009, 05:22:19 pm
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Oooooo V14, I can feel something big coming....any hints?
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Edit: Please see MC14 Licensing (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52051.0) for more information on MC14 availability and pricing.
Did you notice the new splash screen?
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Ahhhh rebooted a couple of times to double check, and unless you'r playing with my mind (not hard) - I'm pretty sure it just says 14 now......
First dumb Q - can we import all our settings from 13 to 14?
Thanks
Nathan
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First dumb Q - can we import all our settings from 13 to 14?
Thanks
Nathan
I don't think it's a dumb Q!
There's quite a bit of work setting everything up again when a new version is released and a lot of them are things that have been tweaked over time and aren't easy to remember what they were!
I know we're "special" and like to tinker, but normal end users don't like having to setup from scratch every time.
R
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2nd dumb (or should I say typical during major V upgrades)....Is there known issue preventing us to move straight to V14 instead of running V13 in parrallel?
Thanks
Nathan
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I don't think it's a dumb Q!
There's quite a bit of work setting everything up again when a new version is released and a lot of them are things that have been tweaked over time and aren't easy to remember what they were!
I know we're "special" and like to tinker, but normal end users don't like having to setup from scratch every time.
R
100% AGREED!!!!
Whatever can be done to MC to save more settings from version to version/re-installation is one the most important things that needs to happen!
Other things I would like to see in version 14:
1) Polishing off Theater View.
-Playing now screen just doesn't look right with list items (other than the highlited one) beeing greyed out. It just makes it hard to see the other items. I also don't like how the display screen just kind of hangs up there in the upper right hand corner. Why not extend it all the way to the bottom instead of locking it down to the cover art size?
-The new view screen for movies just doesn't work at all for me. I used to be able to fit 15 movies on one screen and now can only see 6 due to the large cover art on the right side. That can't be a good thing? I am thinking of moving back to one of the previous version because of it.
-Overall there still seems to be bugs with 3d artifacts sometimes ghosting on the screen when switching views and occasionally the whole program just crashes for no reason (not very often though).
-Adding in more Internet media sources directly such as Youtube, Netflix, and others
2) Make the Radio feature more like iTunes DJ where it can be enabled permanently and when the music ends in playing now, it just kicks in rather than always having to manually turn it on (which I rarely do, btw). Having 'Genius' like logic would also be nice rather than purely based on skipping. Maybe plug into Last.fm data as this plugin does: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=47579.0.
3) Blu-Ray Support
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I don't think it's a dumb Q!
There's quite a bit of work setting everything up again when a new version is released and a lot of them are things that have been tweaked over time and aren't easy to remember what they were!
I know we're "special" and like to tinker, but normal end users don't like having to setup from scratch every time.
R
Ditto
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I agree too. If I werent such a MC fanboy, it would certainly be enough for me to put off upgrading.
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I'd also like to see the ability to make "Tag templates" like in Adobe Bridge. You set a bunch of tag info to some categories in a file and then save that as a "Tag template". Then you can apply that same tag info to any number of other selected files. This would be a great way to tag newly imported files that often have lots of basic tag info in common.
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I agree with the preservation of user settings discussion. I don't think too many users like having to re-do all their settings when upgrading.
1) Polishing off Theater View.
I also agree with this! V13 has done so much for Theater View but with all that change comes the inevitable requirement for refinement. As Jim himself has said, the info panel is still a "work in progress". I'd like to be able to define which fields are shown and the ability to show them automatically for the currently selected file (rather than needing to hit Enter to invoke it each time). Visually, I think the info panel's art is too big (in the case of thumbs built from a single video frame on import) and the reflections look unrealistic (when compared to the nice reflections used in other areas of the program). The 3D animations used are nice but often do not flow smoothly. Ultimately, the ideas are all there. I think we still need a proper "view in detail" screen where you can show as much detail as you like without being confined to the bottom quarter of the screen.
Playing Now: is still missing several key things IMO. It's a "playing now" view and as such, I've always felt it should contain AT A GLANCE - 1) Track numbers 2) time counters (elapsed/remaining) 3) a play status icon (playing/stopped/paused). The PIP window is nice for other file lists but it's not really working for me in Playing Now. It doesn't update immediately when you start playback of something. You often need to "refresh" it manually. Live TV stutters and for audio, if you're using a custom viz, it looks squashed in this small window. An option to show cover art only in here would be worthwhile. I think something like NeFAST's excellent cover flow viz: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=49588.0 would really seal the deal!
Theater View plugins: they were introduced in version 12. When will it be possible for us to contribute?
The look: More "bling" is never a bad thing, especially where a major release is concerned. The main menu is great but there's a lot of wasted space there. Some vertical scrolling wouldn't be a bad idea to group similar items. How about the date to accompany that lonely clock? A small PIP window would work in the bottom left corner too or maybe below the Playing Now button (sort of like it used to be a while back). Skin customisations are also incomplete or broken in many areas. I can provide specific examples if required.
Like I said though, V13 was an excellent release for Theater View. Most of this stuff is just icing on the cake now :-)
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Add another vote to the clamour for settings migration. Why not just bin the registry and go for a settings file ala portable installation?
Also, how about incorporating the playingnow plugin into the default MC14 installation? :D
It would need an options interface, for sure, but surely worth it? That plugin adds sooo much to the MC end user experience. We've gone through virtually the entire v13 run carrying a tooltip bug which detracts a lot of usefulness, and perhaps integration might fix that too? I could provide skins for it without too much trouble, if you like.
I can't help thinking that, if the v13 cycle really is done and dusted, that it has to be the shortest beta run I can remember, not even making it to 200 builds!
Like jmone says, "something big coming"?
-marko.
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+1 here too. And while we're at it, would it be possible to export ALL settings as well? Everytime you re-install Windows, it's a pain to set up MC the way you like it, doing everything manually.
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Ditto on the transferring of the settings/options. Even if the new version has different types of settings, it would be nice to set as many as possible that are identical. That's one of the reasons I haven't gotten around to putting MC13 on one computer. Now I'm glad I didn't because now I need to do it with MC14.
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OK, since V14 came out and I just went through all the changing to my settings, I decided to try the documents capability with a couple PDF files. This works great and I could see it being a great way to organize my PDf files instead of just folders. I used to own Paperport which was awesome for this but since I have now moved on to better PDF editors, I do miss the capability with Paperport of seeing true thumbnails of my PDF files. That would be nice to get in MC14.
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I've no issue with any of the ideas posted in this thread, but please bear in mind that IMHO MC is at heart a media management application first and foremost.
Adding new features is all well and good, but there are still areas that need major polishing to make them shine :)
You've started on one of my pet peeves with the new import wizard, but the basic learning curve for MC is still far too steep. I'm all for adding some nice (optional) wizards to allow first time users to properly customise some of the options that are available.
Other things, I really feel that the new Theatre View file info still needs work. It's nice as far as it goes, but often much of the information that is shows is plain irrelavant (To me at least, & others have also made this point). We severely need the option to customise which fields are shown.
The website also needs work, especially IMHO if you're planning on releasing a new version to the public- I've pointed this out before, but for example, there are still references to MC 12 in places, and the old logo even crops up. A little work in this department will do wonders for first users, and probably convert more clicks into cash.
Cheers
-Leezer-
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... IMHO MC is at heart a media management application first and foremost.
First, yes. But MC's capabilities may be extended.
MC is a media manager, but why not a file manager or an information manager?
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I'm with leezer too. I'm still waiting to see Library view (tiles view) finished off.
There are a number of other existing areas that got put on freeze too:
Stacks.
Movie metadata/ art.
Showroom.
3D view in standard view.
And existing features could be brought to the mainstream or extended further with a little more work. Stuff like:
Tag templates.
Expression wizards.
"Quick searches" to work like the "Filter" pane in Adobe bridge (ie. graphical ratings all on one row as a kind of global always visible filter)
Adobe bridge like workspaces.
Sidecar files.
MKV/MP4 tagging.
iPhone synch for music and photos.
I'd say you've got enough on your plate with all that. Broadening your focus any more than that is going to get frustrating unless you grow as a company to give the required resources to each area.
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I agree with what others have said, in that there are still many areas which need improvement/finishing off from MC13. Two big ones for me are theatre view and images...
Having said that, if a new version is to be released - I also think it's important to have at least one NEW feature which defines this version from the last. While the import wizard will certainly make things easier for new users who are setting everything up, I doubt it will persuade existing users, with established databases, that an upgrade is worth it.
I trust that if Jim, Matt and Co. decide to add new features, then continued development of old features won't be completely abandoned. We can still expect improvements to the above (I hope). Admittedly, I was in no way expecting a MC14 release this soon, however... I suspect this has a little to do with the current economic climate - a new version will help generate more cash flow right now (many users here will probably snap it up quite early in the development cycle, even if the only new feature is a new flash screen ;)). But it's also important to remember that users may be more reticent to part with their many than they were at the MC13 release - it just means you'll have to go above and beyond to convince them that the upgrade/purchase is worth it.
So assuming a new version is to be released - while continued development of existing features should be a foregone conclusion, I don't think that this alone can justify the new version. Releasing MC14 with the theatre view changes (file info panel), working 3D view/showroom etc will only cause discontent - users will say "These should have been in MC13 and now you are charging us for them". A new version, in my humble opinion at least, should have new features and improvements in existing features. This begs the question - does trying to do too many things at once dilute the product? Maybe. Does J River have the resources to do both effectively? I can't answer that, naturally... but I guess Jim has a pretty good idea of what his team is capable of.... so I'm happy to sit back and try what comes my way (with a few interjections here and there of course :))
What I'd like to see:
> Editing/customising the info display in Theatre View
> Showroom: It's time to add it as a standard view type with a little bit of customisability. This would be great as a "coverflow" approach: The whole display can be dedicated to the metadata for a single movie (including a poster) and left/right/navigation keys can move between movies. So, only one movie/album is displayed at a time (with smaller previous of what's next and previous), but the user can easily see a nice large poster and any information that they specify
> Some image batch features (batch changes to EXIF date, batch conversions)
As for some of the new features that have been suggested:
> Back up settings - YES please!
> Contacts: A nice idea. Maybe link this up with the [People] field? I hate to bring it up (well, maybe I don't :)) but a Parent/Child field approach could work here... you could tag [People] with fields like Email, Phone Number etc
> Media Backup: I probably wouldn't use this one... Might be nice for some situations, but I prefer to do whole drives and directories at once and have dedicated software for this.
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And you should feel good about what you have done/created (but don't get a big head... it's hard to get through doors!!), and yes it is like chasing the end of an endless piece of string and no we'll never ALL be 100% happy... that's just human.
MC13 Theater View is light years ahead of what we had in MC12 and you guys did listen to what we asked for and in most cases responded and implemented it, but there are just a few things left undone that could finish it off so much better.
For me my biggest issue now is that the file lists don't automatically update when auto import imports new files that are in my current view... I have to leave and re-enter the view to see the new files.... very confusing for the kids & wife when files aren't there they expect should be.
Of course I'd love to see TV Scheduling implemented in Theater View but I'd expect that to be a V14 addition not a final tweaking of V13.
I guess because MC14 is now out in Beta, we all (well me anyway) read that to mean you're happy with MC13 and that the code is now basically fozen and development focus has now moved to MC14 and new features for this version.... hence the concern that the little open ends in MC13 will get lost to the more exciting development work of MC14.
I personaly will upgrade to MC14 regardless of the new features, as I love MC and will want continue to support it and I imagine most of the beta tester members probably feel the same way...
Richard
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Some prioritize eye-candy, others usability and ease of access.
There are some real gems inside of MC, but I'd suspect for plenty of users, they are too hard to find or use.
When I see expressions like the one listed here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51475.msg351347#msg351347) (no offense Marko), I want to barf. Its wonderful that it can be done; its the how its has to be done that is troubling. This was acceptable for 1980, but not for 2009!!!
View schemes are fantastic. But you really have to know *how* MC works before their power can used. Some of the settings require working in a certain order to obtain what you want. Application settings and usage shouldn't be a quest for the Amulet of Yendor. How about some tooltips (yeah, that means translation)? Or links to documentation that actually describe (sufficiently) what settings are and do?
A number of tools / commands have no feedback whatsoever. "Submit to Internet" for example - What happens!? Did the command succeed? Fail? Get ignored? MC is inconsistent in providing user interactive feedback.
You've asked in other threads about making MC more accessible to the masses. A great product should be fully appreciated by as many as possible. And this requires a bit more usability, help and polish.
Other's have commented on the web site. I agree with the sentiments. It is time to drop the focus on the old software. The main J River site shows MC and ICE software. This is a bit like Apple showing links to the Apple II on its main page. Move on.
MC and the development of said has the feeling that it is unsure of its target audience. Specialists, or the masses. Many tools are, sorry, but "me too", lacking in enough depth to satisfy the specialists, and seem targeted towards the masses. Yet there is insufficient ease-of-use for the masses to accept the product by and large, thus it is relegated to the specialists. And here we are full circle. In my opinion, you don't have the resources to meet both markets. Stop trying. Fish or cut bait. Smart folks can do tremendous things. Really smart folks realize how much they can't do! :-)
This is an outstanding product, and I appreciate it every day. Thanks for listening.
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I would like to say that I am really thankful for MC being able to be the center of my media hub! I couldn't enjoy my computer and all of my music, movies, images, and games with out MC!
I really feel strongly that MC needs to stay focused on entertainment, period. Anything that directly supports that end goal, whether it be better media management functionality or something else, is perfectly fine to add in, but just remember entertainment is the only reason why I use MC.
The cool unexpected 'Oooh, WOW' factor is important to me, along with ease of use (primarily wysiwyg which doesn't always feel that way in MC), stability (pretty good, but Theater View seems to have a few problems), and overall utilitarian functionality of the program (surpassed by no one currently).
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dumb question - if v14 exists i cannot find it- help!
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dumb question - if v14 exists i cannot find it- help!
I suspect only to the beta team users ;)
Maybe better keep this discussion in thee beta forum...as we normal users can't really comment on things we can not try...
peter
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Some prioritize eye-candy, others usability and ease of access.
There are some real gems inside of MC, but I'd suspect for plenty of users, they are too hard to find or use.
When I see expressions like the one listed here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51475.msg351347#msg351347) (no offense Marko), I want to barf. Its wonderful that it can be done; its the how its has to be done that is troubling. This was acceptable for 1980, but not for 2009!!!
View schemes are fantastic. But you really have to know *how* MC works before their power can used. Some of the settings require working in a certain order to obtain what you want. Application settings and usage shouldn't be a quest for the Amulet of Yendor. How about some tooltips (yeah, that means translation)? Or links to documentation that actually describe (sufficiently) what settings are and do?
A number of tools / commands have no feedback whatsoever. "Submit to Internet" for example - What happens!? Did the command succeed? Fail? Get ignored? MC is inconsistent in providing user interactive feedback.
You've asked in other threads about making MC more accessible to the masses. A great product should be fully appreciated by as many as possible. And this requires a bit more usability, help and polish.
Other's have commented on the web site. I agree with the sentiments. It is time to drop the focus on the old software. The main J River site shows MC and ICE software. This is a bit like Apple showing links to the Apple II on its main page. Move on.
MC and the development of said has the feeling that it is unsure of its target audience. Specialists, or the masses. Many tools are, sorry, but "me too", lacking in enough depth to satisfy the specialists, and seem targeted towards the masses. Yet there is insufficient ease-of-use for the masses to accept the product by and large, thus it is relegated to the specialists. And here we are full circle. In my opinion, you don't have the resources to meet both markets. Stop trying. Fish or cut bait. Smart folks can do tremendous things. Really smart folks realize how much they can't do! :-)
This is an outstanding product, and I appreciate it every day. Thanks for listening.
/me nods in agreement.
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Me want betha!
Jokes aside, I hope this does not put an end to v13 development. There are just to many things that's nearly there in Theater View. I don't know if I can wait for another 6 months or so until v14 is out.
14 is obviously in the progress so let please let my prayers be heard. I hope this major things get a overhaul:
1. Finish the Theater View. Especialy for Movies. A whole info page for detailed info on each movie would be great. Just take a look at DVD Profiler or similar applications.
2. A real Movie Database to download and upload info from
3. Backup of library, cover art AND settings
4. A real client/server experience with simultaneous writing. Prefferably with a easy user based access list. At least Read only and read / write.
5. MPEG4 support for countries with DVB-T and DVB-C tuners.
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MC is a media manager, but why not a file manager or an information manager?
No reason at all. But consider this...
My file manager is Directory Opus (http://www.gpsoft.com.au/). For me, Opus is to file managers what MC is to media managers. And I react to this statement exactly the same way I would to GSSoftware asking, "Opus is a file manager, but why not...?"—ROTFLMAO!
I have no objection to MC doing more, but I'd rather it did more to be a complete media manager first. Some of us have been looking forward to it extending it's coverage to include video in version 13. Eight months later, the job's half done and you're apparently shifting resources to the next version. With a lot of help from other users, I've solved the issue of getting video meta data into MC. Unfortunately, I still have no practical means for viewing it—because Theater View is still incomplete.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset. I really have no reason to be. My current video manager already does a very good job at being a video manager, and I don't plan on abandoning it anyway. I just thought it would be cool if MC could that much closer to it's goal of being a complete media manager.
Well, okay. Obviously I'm "upset" enough to be commenting on something I know nothing about. At this point, I have no idea what your plans are for version 14. Maybe you've created video management features so stupendous you have no choice but to build a new version around them. And if that's true, I'll probably even agree—and not even think twice about being asked to pay for something I thought would materialize in this version. If not, it just makes me wonder what kind of ride I'm on.
Maybe I should have just asked the rhetorical question, "Why not a complete media manager first?" I could have used this time to enjoy a movie in Opus. ;)
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I also think it would be nice to have the V12 feature where we could have different sized thumbnails for the different levels in the library.
For an example i would have my Artist thumbnails at a relatively small size for easy scrolling and a more polished look, and then when i click on a particular artist the albums would show as bigger thumbnails. I loved that feature on MC and was very dissapointed when they made it just one slider in V13. I hope they consider it!! :)
If it's a bother for some user's, maybe an option to unlock the slider for multiple levels so that everyone is happy?? ;D
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I also think it would be nice to have the V12 feature where we could have different sized thumbnails for the different levels in the library.
For an example i would have my Artist thumbnails at a relatively small size for easy scrolling and a more polished look, and then when i click on a particular artist the albums would show as bigger thumbnails. I loved that feature on MC and was very dissapointed when they made it just one slider in V13. I hope they consider it!! :)
If it's a bother for some user's, maybe an option to unlock the slider for multiple levels so that everyone is happy?? ;D
We put up strong arguments in favour of this at the time, and like you, I still miss the functionality you're referring to. Never say 'never', but sadly, I don't think we'll be getting this one back anytime soon.
-marko.
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Some of us have been looking forward to it extending it's coverage to include video in version 13.
You'll need to explain that. Video was added in MC9.
Eight months later, the job's half done and you're apparently shifting resources to the next version. With a lot of help from other users, I've solved the issue of getting video meta data into MC. Unfortunately, I still have no practical means for viewing it—because Theater View is still incomplete.
You can view data now. What you're asking for is a customizable info panel so you can view the data you want to. We expect to add that.
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Kill the tree. Free the tag window.
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First, yes. But MC's capabilities may be extended.
MC is a media manager, but why not a file manager or an information manager?
Not sure if this is a joke or not?
I really hope so because I dont want one app to do it all.
I want an app that does want I want it to and does it VERY well.
I want buttons and tools to manage my images and those buttons and tools and a layout that suits them ARE NOT the same buttons and tools that I want to organise my phone list or address book with.
I dont see Adobe trying to make photoshop store my contacts phone numbers or manage my emails.
To me the relation between my contacts and my music / images is so far apart I cant even see why you would consider this??
I've been trying to decide whether to move to MC for my image management from Photoshop Elements and was nearly about to make the move even though in my opinion MC has a LONG way to go before I would consider it 'there' for managing images and if you were serious about this comment then please say because then I will have my answer and I will avoid moving to MC to manage my images and you obviously wont have the spare development time left to actually 'finish' MC's image functionality.
In my opinion, if you want to get MC to THE point where it is THERE (ie finished and you can start worrying about moving it in random other directions) then you need to just sit down and 'finish' each area.
Start a big discussion about each point in MC one by one, get all the users feedback, desires, etc and listen and actually finish each area.
I have seen a million requests and begs for things in theatre view from users over the years for features they would kill for MC to have or that it is just lacking and they have still never appeared no matter how overwhelming a majority of users have backed up the idea.
MC for images is still hugely lacking and unpolished and missing a lot. An image thumbnail is great, for audio all you want is to see a picture of a cover, you're not AS bothered about inline editing of information. For photos however I want to just be able to click on the 'comment' tag under the pic and edit it right there.
I would LOVE to be able to upload along with my photos to facebook, all the users in a pic (not sure if this is possible, but if it is, it would be a killer feature that would set MC way ahead of other apps). Also, the upload to facebook is great that it is there but once you tell MC to start, thats it, you have no idea what is going on until some time later a box appears and says 'done'. The first time I did it I think I clicked it 3x because I didn't realise anything was happening.
Recently when I was sorting my images, I repeatedly had MC coming up and complaining about files it couldn't find it was trying to change tags on. I have no idea why on earth it was trying to change tags, I had no way of seeing what it was trying to do or of stopping it doing whatever it was trying to do.
The toolbar when viewing images fullscreen has nothing to do with images and just looks like a total hack job and looks like basically the top half of MC has been chopped off and displayed there. It isn't at all related really to the image infront of me or giving me any userful options for it - compare this to the toolbar in Adobe Photoshop Elements and you will see the HUGE lack of 'finish' that appears to be there in something as simple as a toolbar that is useful to making the job easy for me.
My point is, MC has a LOT of areas that need polishing and 'finishing' and I think users would care a LOT more about seeing this happen rather than seeing it pull up a list of friends phone numbers. If you really want to get MC there just finish each area that already exists instead of worrying about introducing yet more and never finishing those either.
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You'll need to explain that. Video was added in MC9. You can view data now. What you're asking for is a customizable info panel so you can view the data you want to. We expect to add that.
I watch video in my living room using a remote, not sitting at my desk. To select a video for viewing, I would like to browse the meta data I have for each one. This includes not only classification data, but a synopsis, lists of all key people associated with it, and a review—none of which I can adequately view now.
I imagine the best approach is to release something simple but functional, and then see what's most important to users once we've had some experience of actually using the additional information. That's why I suggest just one additional page that would show all the information available. There are lots of reasons why something different would be better, but that would give us something to play with—to determine exactly what information is needed, and how it might displayed differently.
This is more representative of "what I'm asking for" (but it was intended more as a helpful suggestion). I believe I said it's essential an information panel be customizable. That doesn't mean I believe the default panel should be unusable for video information. As it is, we don't even have a starting point from which we might consider productively what it is we might want to customize. Personally, I'd rather not have to customize anything. I just realize it's not feasible for you to provide a "one-size-fits-all" solution for this.
But this is off-topic. My point was—if you ask "Why not a file manager?" or "Are we done now?," my immediate reaction is, "Wait a minute, what about the media manager capabilities I'm still waiting for?" I suspect I'm not alone.
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To select a video for viewing, I would like to browse the meta data I have for each one.
Thanks. It wasn't clear from your comment that you meant video meta data.
I believe I said it's essential an information panel be customizable. That doesn't mean I believe the default panel should be unusable for video information.
I believe I've said we think that's a good idea.
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I would LOVE to be able to upload along with my photos to facebook, all the users in a pic (not sure if this is possible, but if it is, it would be a killer feature that would set MC way ahead of other apps).
I believe there's a plugin for Windows Live Photo Gallery to do just that. I can be wrong about the user part, but you can tag people nowadays and uploading seems a no-brainer.
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I'm of the opinion that MC is by far the best music player on the planet.
However, it then applies the same tagging, viewing, playback and organisational model to Images and Videos (and Documents as an aside). And now we hear potentially more file types being mooted. I simply don't want to organise, view and use everything the same way, because to do so is to become very dull indeed.
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A manager to view all the rules used by viewschemes & smartlists in ONE place.
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it seems that you guys just want to abandon the number 13... because it brings bad luck :D
just kidding
it would be very nice to finish off the half-finished Theater View or polish it that it really begins to shine
and it would also be time to implement a little function to export and import all the settings, it
is just a hell of a work to manually transfer all the settings from one version to the next
thanks
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I find this thread with over 80% posts from Beta team rather confusing. You talk about something I can't see/test. Can you please explain the purpose of it? I mean now I don't know if I should ask/comment about / for anything regarding MC13, or wait for MC14, or just drop everything and go do something more interesting, not care about this anymore.
If you guys can think of any more ways to go as far as possible from anything resembling a roadmap, please index them somewhere. Use that as a plan to present MC14 if there's nothing else.
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OK perhaps you guys could take this discussion outside? I've just drooled on my desk at the thought of v14 :(
On a serious note I'm not at all interested in MC being the centre of my whole PC. I don't need or want to be able to launch apps from it or view documents or the like.
Whilst the ability is great and some people may love it, my HTPC is just that. Rarely used for anything but TV, Video, Music, Photo's.
This is where I believe you guys should concentrate development. Making MC the best god-damned eye-popping candy-like HTPC front end there is.
Just my 2c worth ;D
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Audio playback is the reason I bought MC 11. I've been happy with MC 12. The early free versions of MC 13 seemed to have nothing to offer me above MC 12. So I didn't buy the MC 13 upgrade until a few days ago. I still don't anything new.
Losing my view scheme layouts and all sorts of other settings was most annoying. Bi-directional filtering still doesn't work in a way I can understand. And I see nothing that makes MC 13 significantly better as an audio playback program. Documentation is still inadequate for such a feature rich program.
I do have a use for MC 13's photo library management. However, I don't want photos in the same library with my music files. Changing libraries is still awkward. When tabs were first added to MC 12, the one important use I could see was to have one tab showing my audio library and another tab showing my image library. You couldn't do that with tabs. So not much value from the image features.
I have a USB TV tuner that MC 13 doesn't support. And when I play some video files, playback stops at intervals. At other times, sound stops and video continues. So not much value from the video features.
As far as I'm concerned, MC has value as an audio player and audio library manager. The rest isn't valuable to me in its current state. JRiver doesn't seem to think they need to do anything further for audio.
So now I read that V14 is in beta. If V14 development is like V13, I may not be upgrading to V14 at all.
Bill
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null
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Hi everybody!
Where can we find a link to download MC 14?
Thanks
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And when I play some video files, playback stops at intervals. At other times, sound stops and video continues. So not much value from the video features.
In our wiki, read about DirectShow and especially about CCCP. Installing CCCP usually fixes problems like those.
In audio, if you aren't using ASIO, try WASAPI playback.
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I do have a use for MC 13's photo library management. However, I don't want photos in the same library with my music files. Changing libraries is still awkward. When tabs were first added to MC 12, the one important use I could see was to have one tab showing my audio library and another tab showing my image library. You couldn't do that with tabs. So not much value from the image features.
Bill
You know that you can run multiple instances ?!
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SAVE/RESTORE SETTINGS REQUEST !!
Please please please! - provide the option to save/load MC settings! If possible, build this into the current MC13 version and have the ability to load/migrate settings from MC13 to MC14.
Not being able to save/restore settings has been a royal PIA! Any time I setup a new computer (or revert a computer back to earlier backup), so much hassle and wasted time results from trying to remember dozens of custom settings that need to be transfered.
Many others are also asking for this - please implement it!
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(...) Free the tag window.
FULL ACK !
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Please please please! - provide the option to save/load MC settings! If possible, build this into the current MC13 version and have the ability to load/migrate settings from MC13 to MC14.
I doubt that this will be implemented. It's so obviously required and has been requested so many times that there must be a good reason to not provide it. Fortunately it is very easy to save and restore most settings with Regedit. And I found that MC12 settings could be moved to MC13 with this technique. Hopefully this will also work for MC14.
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Can you give us info on the licensing structure for v14, specifically in relation to those who purchased v13 licenses very recently?
I understand that not all software producers offer free upgrades per version but v14 has followed so quickly on the heals of v13 - Any significant discounts for v13 licence holders wishing to update and when can we expect to see it available for download (beta or otherwise)?
cheers
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I only use MC for audio, and for me, V13 had nothing over V12. Knowing the incremental nature of MC development, I didn't worry. I also knew the focus would lie outside audio. But now I'm hearing about 14. It seems very early. It feels as if I bought 13 only last week (I know it's a bit longer than that...). I would probably hesitate to get 14, especially as I feel that 13 didn't really add any value over 12. In a way, I bought 13 knowing that it would get better all the time... But if it's already being abandoned... Well, OK.
All that said, if 14 brings new stuff to the table that makes it feel like a new version in a way that 13 didn't, I'm all for it.
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What are you all whining about? If there are huge changes from 13 to 14, I would not hesitate buying it. What is 20-30$ for an upgrade anyway?? It's almost free! Most of us waste that amount daily on crap.
Only thing I hope is that some of the half finished Theater View stuff is completed, so we don't have to live with that until version 14 is out.
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Can you give us info on the licensing structure for v14, specifically in relation to those who purchased v13 licenses very recently?
I understand that not all software producers offer free upgrades per version but v14 has followed so quickly on the heals of v13 - Any significant discounts for v13 licence holders wishing to update and when can we expect to see it available for download (beta or otherwise)?
cheers
Early versions of MC14 will work with an MC13 license. There will be a discount when this changes.
With build 170, new purchasers of MC13 receive an MC14 license.
The transition usually lasts several months.
For business reasons, we don't have complete discretion on when to break from one version to another. It typically happens about once a year. This time, it went from August 8, 2008 to May 21, 2009 -- almost 10 months.
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What are you all whining about? If there are huge changes from 13 to 14, I would not hesitate buying it. What is 20-30$ for an upgrade anyway?? It's almost free! Most of us waste that amount daily on crap.
Only thing I hope is that some of the half finished Theater View stuff is completed, so we don't have to live with that until version 14 is out.
I try not to waste $20 a month, much less a day. So speak for yourself there. I wouldn't say it is "almost free". I love MC software and the power it has, but I won't be upgrading so soon. I purchased a v13 license this year and don't intend on dumping money into another upgrade for a while. I also feel that v14 may be a little further away than we think.
And I do echo some people's sentiments that I'm a bit bummed out to see v14 already built. I was expecting that maybe 4-6 months from now, not a matter of weeks after I paid for my MC13 license.
All that being said, I'll definitely give MC14 a trial run and decide if its worth the upgrade. I suspect that it won't be (for me) right now. And to be honest, if it is, and it's out by the end of the summer, I will feel a bit betrayed that I paid for the MC13 license, probably expecting whatever is initially in 14 to be included in 13 at some point down the line.
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And I do echo some people's sentiments that I'm a bit bummed out to see v14 already built.
Would it brighten your day to hear it isn't built? It's only begun. You probably won't see it for several months.
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You probably won't see it for several months.
:(
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What are you all whining about? If there are huge changes from 13 to 14, I would not hesitate buying it. What is 20-30$ for an upgrade anyway?? It's almost free! Most of us waste that amount daily on crap.
Only thing I hope is that some of the half finished Theater View stuff is completed, so we don't have to live with that until version 14 is out.
I wasn't whining i was asking a question. Who moaned about 'half finished theatre view stuff & not having to live with that until 14 is out?' ;)
I am just enquiring as to the status of 14 and likely cost
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Would it brighten your day to hear it isn't built? It's only begun. You probably won't see it for several months.
Actually, yes. I look forward to trying it out; I just don't want to see 13 abandoned so soon as I'm just now getting into the flow of it and would hate to see the improvements stop.
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I wasn't whining i was asking a question. Who moaned about 'half finished theatre view stuff & not having to live with that until 14 is out?' ;)
Because, leaving a version (and a very popular part in fact) rather unfinished is something that annoys people that have bought this otherwise excelent program, far more that the "Oh, will there be a new version out soon? How am I gonna get those 20$?". And if it remains like this for the next five months while we wait for version 14, there will be downsides. And very much so for the people that don't want to upgrade. Instead I hoped that you could all be glad that a new version, probably with some major enhancements, are on it's way. If the money is a huge problem and you do like the unfinished parts, then nobody is forcing anybody to buy anything.
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For reasons I can't discuss
The "FOUR PEOPLE" theory.
;)
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You know that you can run multiple instances ?!
Yes, I've tried it. It does seem to work. Some of the last position information is a bit strange when I start MC again later.
I much rather be able to use 2 libraries in the same instance of MC.
Thanks for reminding me. I'll take another look.
Bill
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can you please make a download link available for everybody interested? Otherwise make this topic private for the beta tester group. I find it a bit frustrating reading about new features while not having a chance to try them myself :-[
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i second the last comment
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Also, how about incorporating the playingnow plugin into the default MC14 installation? :D
It would need an options interface, for sure, but surely worth it? That plugin adds sooo much to the MC end user experience. We've gone through virtually the entire v13 run carrying a tooltip bug which detracts a lot of usefulness, and perhaps integration might fix that too? I could provide skins for it without too much trouble, if you like.
I want it too ;D
No file manager needed ::)
I can't wait now :o
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Please see MC14 Licensing (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52051.0) for more information on MC14 availability and pricing.
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Will there be a "discount time", where i.e. the upgrade from MC13 to MC14 will only cost 13$? I can remember, that an upgrade from MC12 to 13 was possible for 13$ for a short time. I must admit that 24$ is too much for me (I'm only a student, so...).
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Also, how about incorporating the playingnow plugin into the default MC14 installation? :D
Where is this plugin you speak of? I have searched and looked in MC 13 and Plugin Development Forums, but found nothing.
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Where is this plugin you speak of? I have searched and looked in MC 13 and Plugin Development Forums, but found nothing.
Download from ---> here (http://www.theganghut.co.uk/files/pnv1.3.0.10.zip)
It has a 14 day trial after which a license will cost £5 GBP. Small cost to pay for a top drawer plugin.
These pages have not been updated in a long time, but if you try it and like it, there are alternative skins available for it from here (http://www.theganghut.co.uk/pn/basic/index.php)
-marko.
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My top two requests for V14:
1. Blu-ray playback fully supported.
2. TV DVR capability with full set of features (including remote recordings management, linking to other PCs on the network etc.) on par with SageTV or BeyondTV.
Thanks,
Osho
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The PlayingNow plugin is great (I payed for it long time ago) however it does not support Unicode ::)
I contacted the author (also long time ago) but he sold it to JRiver. So I asked them (more than a year ago) about that nevertheless unfortunately they did not include it in MC13 so hopefully they will in MC14... :-\
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1. Blu-ray playback fully supported.
If SlyPlayer comes around can we expect to have this?
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I would also consider Blu Ray support critical.
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I've read everyone’s comments. I know that JRiver is going after the video and image market to try and have a truly complete media manager. At this time my only concern and use is for MC is audio. I believe that if you do the basics extremely well then the bling can be added over time. Generally, I think MC is excellent overall for audio.
There are some fundamentals that I think need to be addressed. Export to a comma delimited ASCII flat file. Be able to select fields and sequence to be exported rather than a complete dump. My limited experience with the HTML format has not been good as other programs are extremely sensitive to file content. (I still can’t import the html file from MC into any other program that I want to use like Word, Excel, or Access.) I have to use dbpower amp to do what I need. (Unfortunately, dbpoweramp doesn’t have all the info I would like to be able to export.) I then import into Excel and go through lengthy edits. I have to do all this so I can create Slimline case track listings. (MC disc labeler for some reason stops at 12 or 13 tracks with plenty of space to spare in both versions 12 & 13) The rest of the issues have been posted on other threads and I do not want to belabor them here.
I think a majority of people bought MC primarily for audio and if all your efforts are on other aspects of MC, we are left out. I have downloaded 13 to evaluate if it takes care of some of the problems I have with 12. So far, I can't see any real improvement for audio or for the problems I have for 12. When I post something on the 12 board it is like the kiss of death and many questions/bugs go unread and unanswered. I think the advice you are getting is sound. Fix what you have and get it functioning as designed. Add the bling in the future. I’ve owned my share of vaporware that promises the world but at the end of the day does it work as designed. I echo the earlier comment that I am not looking for a program that does everything. I want a program that does one thing extremely well.
From what I can glean from these and other posts the new development is really chewing up a lot of resources and the response to upgrading to 13 has not met your projections. That is a sign that you have moved away from your core product. My humble suggestion is if you want to sell more copies of this, or any other version, continue to make tangible improvements in the audio portion of the software.
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Please integrate 64bit shell extensions into v14.
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I think a majority of people bought MC primarily for audio...
My humble suggestion is if you want to sell more copies of this, or any other version, continue to make tangible improvements in the audio portion of the software.
VERY thoughtful, well stated, and I agree wholeheartedly.
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When we did a poll on this subject a year and a half ago, it turned out that about 40% used MC for audio only.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=42725.0
About 32% were using MC for audio, video, and images, and another 10% were using it for "all four", which would include documents.
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Although I use MC for "all four", I use it primarily for audio.
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...it turned out that about 40% used MC for audio only.
Interesting.... I guess that's because MC does audio so well. In fact, I have never found its equal, which is why I will someday register JRiver Media (Audio) Center version 531.
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I think it's probably because we started with audio. So did many users.
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I use MC as an audio jukebox in my living room . The display view is therefore crucial.
It would be great to be able to costumize the rotated album art in order to show some infos on the playing track (I find the other vizualisations ugly).
The ability to add a delay before poping up the display view would also be nice. For example, if a track is playing and there's an inactivity from the user during a certain time, the display view would pop up.
Sheugel
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A new poll should be in order, a year and a half is a lot in computer time. We are almost past MC13 which brought many improvements on the television side, and the Theater View. As we move towards MC14 it would be interesting to see where we are today, as a somewhat objective assessment for the future directions of MC development.
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When we did a poll on this subject a year and a half ago, it turned out that about 40% used MC for audio only.
About 32% were using MC for audio, video, and images, and another 10% were using it for "all four", which would include documents.
I participated in that poll. If I read your numbers correctly then at leat 82% are using MC for audio. 40% are exclusive audio (a significant portion) 32% are using audio, video and images, (40% + 32% = 72%) and 10% are using all 4 (72% + 10% for a total of 82%). Assuming that the remaining 18% are not using it for audio at all says that only 60% (18% + 32% + 10%) are using the other 3 features. 22% differential is a huge difference. The key question becomes what percentage of users answered the poll? What percentage bought MC for those features that without them they would not have purchased MC at all? What about your jukebox software? I assume that they are entirely audio and if you gave them features that they want in MC then wouldn't they upgrade to MC? The key question is how do you keep your existing clients happy (your bread and butter business) then go after new markets.
Think about it another way, those of us who have been using MC for awhile have fewer questions demanding staff time and we also help others with solutions on the board. It cost less to service an existing customer than it does a new one. What is your cost to bring a new client on board vs taking care of old farts like me?
In a past life, I worked with several political pollsters in Washington DC. What I learned from them is the key to any poll is how you ask the question. There are a number of good survey companies that could help structure a poll (inexpensively) that would be a real asset in your decision making process on how to prioritize and allocate your resources to get the greatest return on your investment. I would be happy to pay full price for an upgrade if you can give me tangible benefits. At some point, I will use MC in a media center PC but that is not my priority. If everything goes to HD 1080p or higher that chews up enormous disk space and until the format issues are settled I am not investing in video at all. Why waste money on DVD's when everything is being converted to HD and why waste any money on HD that isn't 1080p? So much of the stuff being offered as HD isn't 1080p.
IF MC is the best program available for audio then I know your commitment will be there for video as well. Take care of your core product, audio, first. I don't want to tell you how to run your business but I am telling you what will make me a happy customer that will make me want tot continue to recommend your product to everyone I know and meet, as well as, continue to support JRiver by buying upgrades. I want you to be around so I can also buy release 531.
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The key question becomes what percentage of users answered the poll?
176 out of the ~20000 (or however many were at the time) signed up on the forum that theoretically had the chance to see the poll. Statistically, is that enough for trends to appear? Even if yes, I'd say the guys that are (almost) always online are very much oversampled vs. people that are quietly using MC for whatever purpose and never come in unless there's a new version that suddenly poses new challenges.
If everything goes to HD 1080p or higher that chews up enormous disk space and until the format issues are settled I am not investing in video at all. Why waste money on DVD's when everything is being converted to HD and why waste any money on HD that isn't 1080p? So much of the stuff being offered as HD isn't 1080p.
I believe that time is now. Blu-Ray won. The TV providers, except the crappy ones (cue TimeWarnerCable) are bringing HD channels in tens to hundreads. Unless you want to play catch-up well into the next physical format (if there will be one), after Blu-Ray. There are ~1500 Blu-Rays released in US, with numbers in the hundreds for other regions. If you like 1 in 20, that's still 75 movies. And HDDs are dirt cheap, 10TB an array is not out of reach. BTW this is not statistic, just an opinion.
Wrapping it up on a funny note, the name of the program says "MC". If the audio users are catered to (for how many years in a row?) as top priority, I suggests JRiver should drop or change one of the initials :P
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I think video is almost as important today as music is. The reason many uses this application for Music only is because it's very very good at it. Video is just beginning to catch up a bit. If even more focus is put into video and Theater View I think more users would use it for video as well, and it would draw more new customers.
A lot of people have large music collection, many have much video collections, and some have large picture collections. Functionality is most important but looks is important as well.
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this time i will upgrade only if blue ray is supported, but i don't think MC 14 will support it i hope im wrong
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this time i will upgrade only if blue ray is supported, but i don't think MC 14 will support it i hope im wrong
Of all the things JRiver could do, this is not one that I'm waiting on them to solve. Unless there is a free player that can parse the Blu-Ray navigational structure (between other things, we're not even talking about decrypting) the point is moot. My best hopes so far are with SlyPlayer that is rumored to be put together by SlySoft (makers of AnyDVD(HD)) and be free. If that comes around we can re-evaluate options.
Until then learn to rip. Take the movie out (video), the audio (and transcode to FLAC 5.1 or higher; everything remains lossless), the subtitles, pack everything in an mkv container, save to a multi-terrabyte array. Simple! ;)
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well i can skip the learn part cause i have more than 50 BD on my stream server already , but that don't make any different to me, if blue ray is no supported i don't see why i should upgrade, probably mc13 will do the same as mc14, again it just my opinion
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Honestly I don't quite see what "playing" would add to the experience compared to the method both of us are familiar with. You'll need (free) DirectShow Filters to decode the sound and send it out as PCM because except for 2 soundcards that seem to never take off, there is no product that does Dolby TrueHD or DTS-MA bitstreaming out of a computer. Plus - just me again - skipping trailers and 15 warnings (if the content have been decrypted otherwise you can't), navigating through menus that most of the time are crap or seem to come from somebody that was suffering from vertigo, there's not much in there that appeals to me to play the disc. Play the movie with one click, immediately, well, that is something else. And can be done now.
I could see that it would be appealing to people that will rip the entire disc just as they currently do with DVD, but I never understood them.
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two simple questions about upcoming release..
any shance for user rights manager?
and synchronize with play stats and ratings for "folder" handled device?
and small (?) please - more examples/presets for schemes, smartlists and other fine customizible features from Masters in MC "from box"..?
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JimH,
The most important missing link for MC to become a file manager is its weak file explorer capabilities.
The bottom line is that MC should be an explorer replacement first, i.e. open multiple folders, move files within folders etc.
Split view + My computer are functionalities towards that direction but still not sufficient. I think I literally want to see explorer
like windows controlled by MC that I can move folders around. Or maybe even an explorer extension?
First, yes. But MC's capabilities may be extended.
MC is a media manager, but why not a file manager or an information manager?
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I split johnas' posts on Not much has changed since 11 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52315.0) to a new thread.
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First, yes. But MC's capabilities may be extended.
MC is a media manager, but why not a file manager or an information manager?
But why would you do that? You are top of the line for audio playback. I would stick with that and see that I integrate with the new wave of hires stores. Linn records, HDtracks, Gimmel records, etc. Right now the download and tagging is painful. If I could browse and buy in a simple integrated way that would be great. It probably requires a download manager, some conventions about tagging, etc.
- Maybe making the home library available to mobile devices outside the home for syncing and streaming. Make that work across firewalls
- Home controller and multiroom integration is still pretty painful.
For the high end audio crowd native support of a convolver that supports seamless switching of the sample rate and integrates well with the playback control (Pause, Stop, etc.). If you want to drive adoption of that feature provide a simple way for generating a correction impulse but allow for the use of impulses of higher end solution from Acourate etc.
Cheers
Thomas
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I am not sure if there is even a dedicated channel right now for feature requests. I figured this post was as good as any. I use MC mainly as my Home TheaterPC via remote. Love jRMC
My top 3:
1) Theater View facelift
2) Better TV / Guide recording support
3) Video Profile view (movie info - narrative, cast, etc)
4) Blu-ray support
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1) Theater View facelift
Please start a new thread and provide your drawing.
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I think v14 needs a true client/server approach especially for TV recording and playback. I need to be able to have all my tuners centrally located on the server with all the recording done there and be able to connect through another PC (via MC) and add, modify, and delete recordings on the server from the other PC. Currently, I add pictures from a different PC so the server has the library open read-only and I would not even be able to record TV on the server with MC if I wanted to.
I would also like Blu-ray playback to be supported.
Built-in internet radio streaming (Pandora, Slacker) as well as video streaming (Netflix, Hulu) would be great.
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Please do not implement feature after feature! MC will get bigger and bigger and more unstable ... (I agree to a true client/server architecture).
Personally I've got the feeling that MC is implementing features blindly which are not used by most users. MC should concentrate on the easy little stuff which makes life easier and would help 90% of the users instead of implementing features for only 10% of the people.
As well I'am missing a road map ... no idea if MC14 will offer features I would use ...
Have you collected all the feature requests for MC13 and made a priority list? Or did all the users post for nothing?
I would like to see e.g. 100 features and every user shall be able to give 10 votes.
I'am not willing to post all my wishes here again to this V14 forum - that way it seems to make no sense for me at all ...
greets