INTERACT FORUM

Scrollbar thumbs are really tough to get right without distortion on rounded ends.
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One piece of advice you might find helpful: a key thing to grasp is that thumb sizing is ultimately controlled by scrollbar background image. You can make the thumb image as big as you want, but it will always get squished down to fit within the limits of your scrollbar width, which when combined with margins and scaling, can mess up how it comes out in actual use.

I thought it would be useful to show a scrollbar that has an actual background to illustrate more explicitly how the background limits the thumb size (note: there are lots of tricks you can play with margins, transparency and other image control parameters to do some pretty unique stuff)

Thanks for the tips.  I've concluded that getting low-distortion rounded scrollbar handle ends is pretty much a crap shoot.  First, draw width of the background to set overall scrollbar width, as you suggest.  Then draw the handle at a width close to what you want relative to the background width.  Set margins and DrawMode.  Finally, iteratively tweak the Scale factors between 1 and 3 until distortion is brought down to an acceptable level.  Seems to work, but there really should be a better way. 

On the other hand, if you're satisfied with flat ends, it's more straightforward.

It's possible your settings files or support files were corrupted.
First download and install the build at the top of the forum. 32.0.45
Next for a clean start, we are going to remove the user files. (Note this will require a license for MC32, there will be no trial period).
Start up terminal session and copy/paste the command below and hit enter.

Code: [Select]

rm ~/Library/Application\ Support/J\ River/Media\ Center\ 32Now run Media Center 32 from the applications directory. Note on first run it will copy your MC28 database and settings and download some support files so give it some time and don't interrupt it.
Enter the MC32 license by using copy/pasting your license key when the splash screen comes up.

Unfortunately this also hasn't worked. The directory in Application Support seems to be removed, but the app still crashes before it can open. MC 28 is still functioning. I've attached the current problem report.

Hi Jim,

Yes I'm aware of how the OSD operates, and unfortunately for this purpose it's quite clunky as it involves scrolling through each of the Chapters, rather than selecting the desired Chapter from a list.

This was discussed in one of the earlier related threads, and at that time one of your developers said a redesign of the whole OSD was being considered.

Cheers,
Peter

Since the previous reply showed a scrollbar background image that was transparent, I thought it would be useful to show a scrollbar that has an actual background to illustrate more explicitly how the background limits the thumb size (note: there are lots of tricks you can play with margins, transparency and other image control parameters to do some pretty unique stuff)

The attached file shows another scrollbar/thumb variation (five variations total) in my new (and yes, still unavailable) Dream in Blue skin. This picture also uses the native color, while the previous picture used MC's skin effects to flip the blue and green two digit hex color codes.

Scrollbar thumbs are really tough to get right without distortion on rounded ends. When I started my very first skin, the scrollbar images were the very first thing I started working on. I found it so difficult to figure out what was going on, I just about gave up early on because it got so frustrating.

I had zero experience editing images, and had no clue what the various image parameters meant in the main.XML file. Several years on after that original experience however, addressing image distortion issues is second nature, and I feel somewhat silly that I didn't figure things out much sooner.  One piece of advice you might find helpful: a key thing to grasp is that thumb sizing is ultimately controlled by scrollbar background image. You can make the thumb image as big as you want, but it will always get squished down to fit within the limits of your scrollbar width, which when combined with margins and scaling, can mess up how it comes out in actual use. 

Regarding the built in checkbox for "Enlarge Scrollbars on Mouse Over" - it does work, but has an intolerable delay. For all my skins now, I design the thumb hover sub-image, to be much larger than the default display sub-image. Consequently, the scrollbar thumb enlarges instantaneously on mouse over (vs. waiting for the software to react). See thumb size delta in the attached screenshot. NOTE: the scroll background is completely transparent, so it simply shows the list background as continuous. Nevertheless, the width of that transparent background controls how big the thumb can enlarge to.

Next build we'll do this:
NEW: An option to show the image Action Window is presented in the menu on the image in the tag window.

I just checked out this update and it works very well… Thank you very much Matt!

It does force me to put the image "group" back into the modern tag window which takes up space I'd prefer not to. Yes, minimal when collapsed, but I like to reserve as much space for tag text. That said, I no longer have to do the legacy/modern tag window dance to get it to show, so I am very grateful for that.

But, that adds a 'Player' tab so that removes 'Display.' Not sure why the 'Player' tab removes 'Display' anyway.

Yeah… I have never understood that one either.  I get why it pops up when there is no playing now tab - you need have something to show what is playing. But why automatically disappear when you create a playing now tab? The mini-display window has an X to close it anyway if you prefer not to show both simultaneously. Another question for Matt I suppose.

Same thing when you have an overview or split view tab open along with playing now - only one can be "active" apparently.  Otherwise, you see the dreaded "The Display for This Zone Is Owned by a Different Window" message. I don't understand that one either… Could be a limitation of the software, or maybe early on it was thought that doing it this way was useful but was never changed/updated?

In any event, this new image function is much better than the mini "display" window anyway since it only showed the currently playing item. This new "image" display shows cover art for any file selected while the main large display continues to show whatever you want… A visualization, a custom track info panel, or the cover art for the currently playing item... Very nice!  Thanks again Matt!

I think that's because of the margins on the handle images.  They have a margin that's set that doesn't stretch.  Then the inner part stretches.  You could remove the margins so it stretches uniformly if you preferred.

Thanks - removing the margins apparently corrects the problem (see attachment and simplified code below).

<!--  Vertical Scrollbar -->
<Entry Name="VerticalHandle"  Bitmap="Scrollbar_VerticalHandle.png"   NumberImages="3" Scale="1" />
<Entry Name="VerticalBackground" Bitmap="Scrollbar_VerticalBackground.png"  NumberImages="1" Scale="1" />
<Entry Name="VerticalUpArrow" Bitmap="Scrollbar_VerticalUpArrow.png"  NumberImages="3" Scale="1" />
<Entry Name="VerticalDownArrow"  Bitmap="Scrollbar_VerticalDownArrow.png"  NumberImages="3" Scale="1" />
That leaves two niggles when selecting the Subject option:

(1) When I initially mouseover the handle, there is a brief flash (~ 1 second) between the Up Image and the Over Image during which an un-enlarged Over Image appears.  This is especially apparent when the bright part of the Up Image is significantly narrower than the Over Image, as in the OP example.  I can't capture it, but it's there and is bothersome for this case.

(2) As mentioned in OP, with Subject option selected, the thumbnails shift left as the handle expands.  Then they shift back to right when done scrolling.  Rather annoying. 

The simplified code distorts the handle endpoints when not using Enlarged Scrollbars.  So I will go back to the original code with non-zero top/bottom Margins + DrawMode, and deselect the Subject option (I assume DrawMode requires a Margins callout to define sub-images).

Yes, maybe this area needs some attention. Here's my reason for liking 'Display' to show the album cover image: when an album is playing I can double-click the cover image in Display to show the album cover full screen (I'm old-school so I play music as albums and never use playlists because they are track- or song-oriented). I can also, alternatively, double-click the image at the top right of the screen. That gives me 'Playing Now', and I can double-click that for a full-screen album cover image. But, that adds a 'Player' tab so that removes 'Display.' Not sure why the 'Player' tab removes 'Display' anyway.

I just noticed that if you view the Playing Now window and right click on a track, the context menu has an option for "Send to recent Playing Now" with a couple dozen options spanning what looks like two weeks or so of Playing Now queues.  This implies that old Playing Now lists are saved somewhere.

Is there a way to load a saved Playing Now list into the current Playing Now queue?

I'm finding that I still can accidentally nuke the current playing now queue with a mis-click.

I think that's because of the margins on the handle images.  They have a margin that's set that doesn't stretch.  Then the inner part stretches.  You could remove the margins so it stretches uniformly if you preferred.