INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 16 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: Matt on June 02, 2011, 04:51:47 pm
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The Blu-ray landscape has changed a bit recently. Two important things have happened:
1) nevcairiel added Blu-ray support to LAV so that it's possible to play a Blu-ray directly
2) AnyDVD HD (http://www.slysoft.com/en/) or DVDFab Passkey (http://www.dvdfab.com/) can make an optical disk usable
With the combination of these two items, it's possible to rent Blu-ray movies from Netflix, Redbox, or anywhere else and watch them easily with Media Center.
It also makes it possible to simply copy the files from a Blu-ray disc you own to your hard disk where they'll still play. Please see this post on importing Blu-rays (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64795.0).
This may be old news to a lot of you, but I'm just starting to use this approach myself. So far, it seems to "just work" with MC16's Red October enabled.
I know there are some complications about getting the full quality out of DTS-HD.
Anything else JRiver needs to add for really nice Blu-ray support?
Edit -- See also Blu-ray Ripping (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=66347.0)
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I just want to say, as I have somewhere in another thread, that this is great work by you guys. I'm so glad that you've worked well with Madshi, Nev and others to enter a new era in HTPC use for playback, especially once the kinks are completely ironed out.
Nathan, if you're listening, thanks for being instrumental in this era of cooperation. Can you tackle the Middle East situation next, please? :)
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There is one missing feature Nev has to add. Title selection in the splitter. So that you can select what title you're watching on the disc. Think episode discs like Glee and True Blood. You wanna be able to pick what episode you're watching. I'd love to see that split out like you have for subtitles into a separate "title selection" menu or something. Once the feature is implemented, of course. Other than that, yes, it just works. And to get around title selection for now you can just open the MPLS file directly off the disc if you know which one it is.
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I just want to say, as I have somewhere in another thread, that this is great work by you guys. I'm so glad that you've worked well with Madshi, Nev and others to enter a new era in HTPC use for playback, especially once the kinks are completely ironed out.
Nathan, if you're listening, thanks for being instrumental in this era of cooperation. Can you tackle the Middle East situation next, please? :)
Totally agree, great work guys, and thanks for all the collaborative work on this.
I've only just taken the plunge and updated my main HTPC to the latest versions and look forward to testing this side of things and then hopefully dropping the need for TMT5.
Richard
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This may be old news to a lot of you
From December, 2007 - Playing ripped Blu-ray/HD-DVD content in MC12 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=43885.0) ;D
Thanks, Nathan, for your persistence over the years regarding Blu-ray. Thanks, MC, for implementing all that we have now for Blu-ray.
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There is one missing feature Nev has to add. Title selection in the splitter. So that you can select what title you're watching on the disc. Think episode discs like Glee and True Blood. You wanna be able to pick what episode you're watching.
I plan to work on this for the version after 0.29, fwiw.
I'm running out of features to implement. :o
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I plan to work on this for the version after 0.29, fwiw.
I'm running out of features to implement. :o
Video decoding ;)...plenty to do!
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I have to say I'm very pleased that we have almost ended up with a real Blu-ray "lite" solution in MC (I must admit that at one point over the last few years I did not think it would happen). A big thanks JR and Nevcairiel for providing the "bits" needed to get this done. I think there are 3 things left to finish the "experience":
1) Stream Selection: as posted by nevcairiel, he is on this one and I'm sure JR will expose this once it is available from the splitter
2) Refresh Rate Changing: I see we have FPS as a field now...... I'm using madVR to do this now (else I have to use reclock and hence no reclock) - more at http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64061.0 on the relative pros and cons of how and where to do it
3) Theaterview Menu Support: This is Blu-ray "Lite" eg I don't expect to get the full Java menu experience but a "Lite" menu that exposes the selection of titles, streams, chapters and subs in a single "DVD Style" OSD would complete the usability (the current single line OSD does not cut it IMO). This menu should be activated for any "file" playback on using the "menu" button on the RC (just like the Menu Button brings up the DVD Menu now).
(http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=64446.0;attach=3349;image)
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Ohhh and the OSD should "look good" and in no way be based on the mockup I did above!
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Another things that "just works" is if you store a ripped stucture to the HDD you can import not only the BDMV but you can already import individual playlist (mpls) so I plan to rip say one disc with say 3 eps of say Doctor Who then I'll import the three individual MPLS and tag each one as the correct eps! One option may be for when importing the Blu-ray into MC is to ask the user if they want to import either/or the single BDMV or the multiple MPLS.
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From December, 2007 - Playing ripped Blu-ray/HD-DVD content in MC12 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=43885.0) ;D
Thanks, Nathan, for your persistence over the years regarding Blu-ray. Thanks, MC, for implementing all that we have now for Blu-ray.
Thanks + I think I'll need to update the latest version at some time "Everything about Blu-ray / HD-DVD playback in MC" http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=55171.0
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I plan to work on this for the version after 0.29, fwiw.
I'm running out of features to implement. :o
Awwww, darn! :p. You DO realize that's a good thing, right?? ;D Seriously though, that's really the only missing feature left unless you want me to REALLY challenge you. :D cough cough menu support. Lol!
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Just a quick FYI re Importing, Tagging and Managing Blu-ray content. If you rip the Blu-ray Structure to the HDD you can then import and tag one of the top level BDMV files. Once imported you can the do Movie Look ups, apply coverart etc etc.
One of the great features however is the ability to also import and tag the Playlist files (MPLS), so you can do stuff like:
1. Movies with Alternative Endings: You can see I've imported and tagged up both Playlist 00000.MPLS (Theatrical Release) and 00006.MPLS (Alternative Ending) from "I Am Legend" Blu-ray structure
2. TV Shows with more than one Eps per Disk: Likewise I've imported and tagged the playlists for Episode 1 and 2 of Torchwood (TV Show)
3. Even Music Videos where you can tag each Song just like with a CD. This one takes allot more work as you may need to create your own MPLS file for each track. In this example I imported and tagged as the whole album 00000.mpls which will play all the tracks. I then created an individual MPLS for each track on the Album (you can see the first three).
....how good is this!
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+ the streaming of the MPLS works as well, eg I just used Gizmo to watch Track 2 - New Kid in Town on my Galaxy Tab
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I may have to play with that for my wife's glee discs and my true blood discs. Interesting idea.
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Anything else JRiver needs to add for really nice Blu-ray support?
What about 'forced' subtitle support? With DVD's 'forced' subtitles were usually encoded directly in to the video. With Blu-Ray they are a separate subtitle track that standard players display based on default language. This allows for a more 'universal' single release.
For those who don't know what I am talking about, 'forced' subtitles are used when the movie is in one language but parts are in a different language. A couple of examples:
'Hereafter' is mostly in English, but one of the plot lines involves French speaking characters. 'Forced' subtitles are used to subtitle the French dialogue in English while not doing full subtitles for everything said.
'The Tourist' at the very beginning has the French police speaking in French. Forced subtitles are used here to translate to English.
Don't have a movie handy with these to test this out, but so far I have only found that true Blu-Ray software (like TMT) handle these correctly without having to manually choose a subtitle track once you realize what is going on.
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Works just fine. LAV Splitter, depending on configuration, will create a "forced auto" entry in the subtitle list. Build 105 now checks for that and automagically selects it for you. IOW, it works just like how TMT or PDVD work internally. They don't expose the forced subs but simply display them. It's not quite that simple in our world so LAV Splitter exposes it as a sub entry for forced. It's pretty sweet, actually.
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Good to hear. After some thought my wish list would be (and some or all of this may already be there):
Physical disc and ISO support (even if tools like AnyDVD and Virtual CloneDrive are needed).
Title selection. At a minimum just present the available playlists/titles with run-times (like MakeMKV does). Even better would be to have an online database similar to what you do with CD track info. Users could tag and upload the details/tags.
Auto 'forced subtitle' support (sounds like that is already in place).
Ability to choose sub-streams within the main streams (specific subtitle streams, commentary tracks, or alternate audio/video tracks).
HW acceleration support even when subtitles are on-screen.
Edit: One issue with user tagging is that people need to pay attention to what they are doing. Many muti title discs (like TV shows) don't have the tracks in episode order on the disc. For example - first title = episode 3, second title = episode 1, third title = episode 2, fourth title - episode 4.
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ISO support is fine. Just shows up under devices.
Title selection is coming
Auto forced subs are done
sub streams are a splitter issue. I can't speak to that one
subs are a pain in the rear right now. I use CUDA and HAM (nvidia and amd respectively) for GPU assisted decoding.
I agree with your edit. Glee is notorious for that nonsense.
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I have to ask... I suppose I can see the utility in ripping a movie to an image file and using it that way, but why would you ever want to do the same thing with a TV Show disc set?
It is so much more useful and flexible to have the shows as separate MKV files, tagged appropriately, and managed through a nice library interface. Is it just because it is quicker to rip them that way? Do people really love the hokey menus they build into those things? I mean, they're cool sometimes... Once. But then they're usually just in the way.
I still haven't had the opportunity to use the BluRay playback capabilities of MC. I might one day for a rental or something... But, I'll probably just rip the discs out to files because that's how I roll. If I rent something, it is almost always online because of the instant gratification factor. ;)
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There is usually a MPLS for each eps, so you can rip the stucture of the Blu-ray to the hdd as is (eg just copy the decrypted strucutre as is), then import, tag, add coverart etc for each of the MPLS that related to the eps you want. No need to covert to any format or container.
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There is usually a MPLS for each eps, so you can rip the stucture of the Blu-ray to the hdd as is (eg just copy the decrypted strucutre as is), then import, tag, add coverart etc for each of the MPLS that related to the eps you want. No need to covert to any format or container.
Right, but then managing that later is a pain. What about if you want to move an episode or two over to a laptop to watch on the plane? Or convert the files on the fly to stream out to a portable device? Or, frankly, just move the files around years later?
Dealing with a fixed directory structure is so 1987...
So... I guess my question wasn't "is it possible". I know it is possible. My question was "why is it better"? Is it primarily just the up-front effort needed to rip the files and put them in containers? With the tools I'm using now at home, I really don't have much trouble with this (and if you don't recompress, the process is pretty darn fast), but I suppose that stuff all costs money.
I'm just curious about motivations. It might make more sense to take this discussion out to a different thread though and not pollute this one.
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It is so much more useful and flexible to have the shows as separate MKV files, tagged appropriately, and managed through a nice library interface. Is it just because it is quicker to rip them that way? Do people really love the hokey menus they build into those things? I mean, they're cool sometimes... Once. But then they're usually just in the way.
+1. For the TV shows and box sets I do have - every episode is ripped to a separate MKV and at the ready with a single click.
Menus are so 1987 - period. Menus, previews - anything that stalls me from getting to the feature is a complete PITA - so I rip it all away to start with. Life is way too short to have to plod thru 18 Disney previews - just roll the show, I say!
VP
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Ripping to MKV is a solid options for lots of reasons. I'm just pointing out another option with using MPLS to hit a playlist within the Blu-ray structure, the benefits can be that you copy the structure once but can then can use the MPLS for the "bits" you want without having to remux them into separate files. This I think is a good approach for:
1) Multiple Endings without having to mux different versions
2) Multi Tracks (eg a Music Video) so you can pick out individual tracks
The best way of thinking about this option is it is a bit like a cue file in audio that grabs the bit you want from a bigger lump. It does also bring up an intersting idea where MC "could" be used to then do the remuxing to another format, store and stack them as separate files. The basics are already there, eg I a did test with streaming and it works where the MPLS just streams than playlist (eg the individual song, eps etc) without any issues (well it still take time for MC to transcode).
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The Blu-ray landscape has changed a bit recently. Two important things have happened:
1) nevcairiel added Blu-ray support to LAV so that it's possible to play a Blu-ray directly
2) DVDFab Passkey (http://www.dvdfab.com/) or AnyDVD HD (http://www.slysoft.com/en/) can make an optical disk usable
With the combination of these two items, it's possible to rent Blu-ray movies from Netflix, Redbox, or anywhere else and watch them easily with Media Center.
It also makes it possible to simply copy the files from a Blu-ray disc you own to your hard disk where they'll still play.
This may be old news to a lot of you, but I'm just starting to use this approach myself. So far, it seems to "just work" with MC16's Red October enabled.
I know there are some complications about getting the full quality out of DTS-HD.
Are there any other gotchas?
Anything else JRiver needs to add for really nice Blu-ray support?
Media Centre 16 opened a .bdmv (also tried a .m2ts) both files provide an error message:-
Quote:
Media Centre encountered errors while trying to play last several files.Please make sure that the path in your
media library points to the right location.
ERROR DETAILS
DirectShow: Unspecified error
Code=0x80004005.
Unquote.
Any suggestion.
Thanks
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Trying to read a Bluray disk I get the same error message.
Configuration: Gigabyte H67MA-UD2H-B3 Mother board with Sandy Bridge I5 2500 Processor with integrated video chipset running Windows 7 Pro 64 bits.
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If you're having problems, please make sure:
1) That you have the latest Media Center installed
2) That you have a program to make the disc readable installed (#2 from the original post)
Thanks.
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If you're having problems, please make sure:
1) That you have the latest Media Center installed
2) That you have a program to make the disc readable installed (#2 from the original post)
Thanks.
1. I amusing Media Centre 16 version 16.0.105
2. I copied the Blue Ray files (.m2ts and the .bdmv files from Blue Ray to Hard disk). Opened with
Media Player and the mentioned error appears. If I open direct from the Blu Ray Player it was OK but not from the saved files in the harddisk.
thanks
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2. I copied the Blue Ray files (.m2ts and the .bdmv files from Blue Ray to Hard disk). Opened with
Media Player and the mentioned error appears. If I open direct from the Blu Ray Player it was OK but not from the saved files in the harddisk.
Are you using DVDFab Passkey or AnyDVD HD?
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Are you using DVDFab Passkey or AnyDVD HD?
Yes I used DVDFab Passkey.
Thanks
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If you're having problems, please make sure:
1) That you have the latest Media Center installed
2) That you have a program to make the disc readable installed (#2 from the original post)
Thanks.
OK many thanks for your answer Matt.
In fact the trial period of DVDFab Passkey have expired.
I suppose that DVDFab passkey lite is not sufficient for working with MC.
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Is there a thread to post glitches in bluray playback? I think it may be a LAV splitter glitch. I haven't registered for doom9 to post it there?
Anyway, for now I'll post it here. Feel free to split this off onto a separate thread if necessary.
All of my bluray rips work fine in MC (16.110) except one. (!). It is the UK/Europe version of Defiance. Previously in MC16.107 (I think), it would show about 5 seconds of video and no audio (linear PCM was being read by the amp,) but not a smidge of sound. Now, with 110 the video plays about twice as fast as normal, again no sound, but this time the amp states it is getting some esoteric Dolby codec (Dolby stereo something plus). MC starts grabbing memory like there's no tomorrow and becomes unresponsive. Eventually had to kill it in the task manager. The bluray should be VC-1 1080p as with most of my others. The only difference I can see is that it has 3 DTS-MA tracks (English, Castillano and something else). Otherwise I can't see how it differs. I've tried all 4 RO options, and windows merit based. All same. Hence why I think the trouble is with splitter/decoder not renderer.
BTW the one I thought would cause trouble (1080i track) plays fine. In fact it looks great with madVR.
Would a graph dump be helpful for debugging? Or the MC log? or both.
It's ripped in AnyDVDHD (latest) into iso. Oh and it plays perfectly in PowerDVD10, so I don't think the rip is corrupt.
SBR
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I was meaning to watch Defiance anyway, i'll try to get a UK edition .. wonder if the german release has the same structure.
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Be sure to use your Paypal account.
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I have some ripped HD-DVDs on my hard drive, any chance they will also be supported in the same way as Blu-ray? Or is it too much work and too few users that still has HD-DVDs lying around?
I've imported them into MC, but can only play them using third party software (like TMT). I guess I can just import the video files directly, but it would be cool to have MC find the video files from the index file like with Blu-ray.
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I was meaning to watch Defiance anyway, i'll try to get a UK edition .. wonder if the german release has the same structure.
Here's the graph:
Filter Graph Info:
Filter 'DirectSound: AVR-1 (Intel(R) Display Audio)'
CLSID: {79376820-07D0-11CF-A24D-0020AFD79767}
Host: c:\windows\syswow64\quartz.dll
Input Pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)'
Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
CLSID: {FA10746C-9B63-4B6C-BC49-FC300EA5F256}
Host: c:\windows\syswow64\evr.dll
Input Pin 'EVR Input0'
Connected to pin 'out0' of filter 'WMVideo Decoder DMO'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
Input Pin 'EVR Input1'
Input Pin 'EVR Input2'
Filter 'LAV Audio Decoder'
CLSID: {E8E73B6B-4CB3-44A4-BE99-4F7BCB96E491}
Host: C:\Users\Lounge\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\lav\LAVAudio.ax
Input Pin 'Input'
Connected to pin 'Audio' of filter 'LAV Splitter Source'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Output Pin 'Output'
Connected to pin 'Audio Input pin (rendered)' of filter 'DirectSound: AVR-1 (Intel(R) Display Audio)'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_PCM, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Filter 'WMVideo Decoder DMO'
CLSID: {94297043-BD82-4DFD-B0DE-8177739C6D20}
Host: c:\windows\syswow64\qasf.dll
Input Pin 'in0'
Connected to pin 'Video' of filter 'LAV Splitter Source'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435657-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
Output Pin 'out0'
Connected to pin 'EVR Input0' of filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
Filter 'LAV Splitter Source'
CLSID: {B98D13E7-55DB-4385-A33D-09FD1BA26338}
Host: C:\Users\Lounge\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 16\Plugins\lav\LAVSplitter.ax
Output Pin 'Video'
Connected to pin 'in0' of filter 'WMVideo Decoder DMO'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {31435657-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
Output Pin 'Audio'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'LAV Audio Decoder'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Audio Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_DOLBY_AC3, Format type FORMAT_WaveFormatEx
Output Pin 'Subtitle'
Odd that its using Windows Media decoder?
SBR
Edit: further testing shows that selecting the stream to the 2.0 commentary gives normal playback, but selecting any of the dts-ma streams gives glitches. Must be something odd in the muxing of the hd streams.
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just wanted to say that I upgraded to MC 16, loaded a BD in the drive (have AnyDVDHD already installed) and it just worked!!!
Thanks to all that worked on this and made it as easy as watching a DVD, well worth the upgrade price just for that.
As a note, MC is one of the few programs that I continue to upgrade with each release (since MC11 I think), many other programs I have purchased have dropped by the wayside after a year or so to be replaced by something better.
Great Work!!!
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just wanted to say that I upgraded to MC 16, loaded a BD in the drive (have AnyDVDHD already installed) and it just worked!!!
;D Good isn't it!
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Just had a look at some TV Episode BDs and in checking their structure it is even easier to deal with. Each of these BD have a separate M2TS file for each Episode already, so just drag the files you want to your HDD, import, tag them up and away you go (not need to remux to MKV).
PS: One advantage of M2TS files is they stream to more devices than MKV, One downside is that you lose "Chapters" as this info is part of the Blu-ray structure not the M2TS file itself (this is not a big loss IMO for TV Episodes anyway).
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Congrats for this new feature. I have most of my Blurays copied to the Hard Drive in BDMV/CERTIFICATE format. The only thing I would really like to see improved is if MC16 could detect this format and index the files in a more organized fashion when they are in folder format, similar to what it does for ISO files. That way we wouldn't have hundreds of individual M2TS files cluttering the views. I think you do something like this already for DVDs.
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Congrats for this new feature. I have most of my Blurays copied to the Hard Drive in BDMV/CERTIFICATE format. The only thing I would really like to see improved is if MC16 could detect this format and index the files in a more organized fashion when they are in folder format, similar to what it does for ISO files. That way we wouldn't have hundreds of individual M2TS files cluttering the views. I think you do something like this already for DVDs.
Totally agreed.
This is on our short list, and should happen in the next couple weeks.
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Congrats for this new feature. I have most of my Blurays copied to the Hard Drive in BDMV/CERTIFICATE format. The only thing I would really like to see improved is if MC16 could detect this format and index the files in a more organized fashion when they are in folder format, similar to what it does for ISO files. That way we wouldn't have hundreds of individual M2TS files cluttering the views. I think you do something like this already for DVDs.
Build 116 is now available and has improvements for importing Blu-ray files (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64795.0).
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Build 116 is now available and has improvements for importing Blu-ray files (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64795.0).
Wow! That was fast! 8)
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If this latest change with 116 for BluRay handling is going to be the way it will be going forward (and I really do hope you will reconsider), then I need the ability to have individual titles show up as separate entries in the library (without having to touch the structure or files on the disc contents) so they can be tagged/streamed over DLNA as separate tracks. Otherwise I am back to having both the full disc rip (for TMT5 playback) + separate MKV's for each title I want to watch/stream with MC.
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Not for me, it doesn't.
Sorry, but I'm not very technical, so the reason I bought MC16 was that I read that you just put in a blu-ray, and it plays. It recognises the name of the blu-ray in the drive, but when I press play, I get the following message:
"Media Center encountered errors while trying to play the last several files. Please make sure the path in your media library points in the right direction."
Can some kind person help with this?
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NineToTheSky, which Blu-ray reader do you have installed (point #2 in the first post in this thread)?
Thanks.
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I have an Acer 8943G with a Blu-ray RE drive. Is that enough information?
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You need AnyDVDHD or DVDFab Passkey. See #2 in the first post.
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I have run DVDFab Passkey.
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I get the same error with DVDFab Passkey. If I wait until DVDFab Passkey finishes analyzing the disk and then I start playing, it works perfectly. I am currently on the trial of DVDFab Passkey (I am trying to decide if I want AnyDVDHD or DVDFab), so I don't know if this occurs with the licenced version, Anyway, you may need to wait until the scan is complete.
Alex
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Depending on the protection on the disc, the scanning time can be rather lengthy. AnyDVD warns you that it's still scanning. I have no experience with DVD Passkey so I can't tell you how that works. But you absolutely have to wait until the scanning is done else the protection isn't removed. AnyDVD locks the drive until it's done so that you can't even access it. Again, not sure how DVD Passkey works in this regard.
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I've used Any DVDHD, and that seems to have done the trick.
Many thanks for all your help.
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Does anyone know of any place I can go for a comprehensive look at these two decryption options? I'm specifically looking for a comparison of performance and evaluations of system resources used by these options, with data to back it up, not conjecture and anecdotes.
I've long been considering getting one of the two, but I have real concerns over the performance implications of yet another boot time service (especially ones that do low-level magic like these).
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I'm without a doubt NOT an objective source on that issue. :) I favor AnyDVD (clearly ;)) and have never ever had a problem with it interfering with my system or causing any kind of instability or anything like that. I keep it running 24/7 and it just stays out of the way until you need it. I just looked in ProcExp and AnyDVD's system tray seems to take about 125 megs of memory. They use a kernel mode driver that intercepts all attempts to access the optical drives that it's enabled for. For me I'd not personally own an HTPC without it. SlySoft has always been very responsive when issues come up and they are generally fixed very quickly.
How that compares to DVD Passkey I really don't know. It seems very similar in design to AnyDVD, but, that doesn't necessarily mean it equates to it. DVD Passkey users would have to comment on that side.
I know you specifically said you didn't want anecdotal evidence here, but, as a VERY long time user of AnyDVD I thought my experience with it might help you.
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P.S. You asked about performance. AnyDVD just got a new feature called the online protection database. For titles that it knows about, AnyDVD will download any cache data that it needs to quickly scan a disc. (BD+ protected titles need replacements to fix the titles). While it can scan in realtime, this often takes a fair amount of time. With the online protection database, if a title has already been scanned and the replacements found or whatever else it needs, AnyDVD will download and cache it so that scanning the disc is much faster. From then on whenever you put that disc in, it'll scan extremely quickly.
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Thanks. While I was specifically not looking for anecdotal accounts, you are exempt. ;)
For me I'd not personally own an HTPC without it.
I can certainly understand that if you use BluRay heavily.
For me? Spinning optical discs make glynor sad, deep down to the core. Getting up and walking over to the machine to put in a disc, which is probably scratched, is antithetical to my typical use of media on my HTPC. I do have, and use, DVD Fab's BluRay ripping application, but paying so much just to get working real-time playback of those spinning discs I don't like anyway has always rubbed me the wrong way, especially when the reason I need one is because of the stupid @#%^&@$% DRM that (obviously) doesn't work to prevent piracy anyway.
Frankly, my array of recording devices generates so much content that I usually don't even think about it until the Summertime. And, the couple of times I have ripped BluRay discs, by the time I got around to watching the rips, the premiere date on HBO has already long-since come and gone and I could have just recorded it. For most movies, that's good enough. For really good stuff, where I want a high-quality copy, I'm going to rip them anyway, so I don't need real-time playback.
Every now and then it would come in handy... I waffle back and forth on it, which is why I've never clicked "buy" for either.
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I understand completely where you're coming from. For me I convert all of my most watched (or most recently purchased) movies to MKV so I can use MC16's library to just pick what I want to watch. I don't have enough hard drive space to do my whole library yet unfortunately. I'd probably need 10+ TB of space. sigh. :D But, the reason I keep AnyDVD active on my HTPC is that I also do a lot of rentals from Netflix. Especially during the summer with limited TV schedules to worry about. For those you just want to watch them and return them. You really need realtime decryption for that. Quite frankly people misunderstand AnyDVD's purpose in life. It was DESIGNED for realtime usage in an HTPC environment. It PERFECTLY complements what MC16 is trying to do for us. This is the model for which it was originally created. Most people assume it's just a tool to enable ripping and that's not true. It does do that, yes, but, so much more.
So yes, I get your reservations about having to buy a realtime decryption program, especially when you simply want to rip most of your media to your drive and be done with it. I'm right there with you on that. But those times we want to just pop in a disc and play it.....it's a really good thing to have.
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Another bout of anecdotal non comparison feeback - AnyDVD HD = Good! I've never had a problem with boot times, resources, conflicts with other progs. It just sits in the Sys Tray and does it thing....
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The only 'bad' thing about AnyDVD is that if you run it in a VM w/o a drive actively attached it complains. Solution is just to not have it start up with Windows and then manually start after connecting the drive to the VM. Other than that it has worked 99% of the time for me. The only time it hasn't worked I was able to get a good copy using MakeMKV's backup feature.
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marco-grage problems split to a new thread (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=65230.0)
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Hello,
This is my first post on Interact and hopefully I found the right thread given my question. I'm about to build a HTPC using Asus' HDAV Deluxe 7.1 soundcard and essentially use it as a prepro. I plan to use MC for ripped FLAC music from a NAS and ripped bluray playback as well. I've never ripped bluray before but currently have ~ 70 discs pending. Given the following requirements and resources, what format should I rip in (MKV, folder structure, etc.)? Also, do I need any additional software?
* MC playback friendly
* Ability to only pick the main movie, HD soundtrack, and subtitles for ripping[/li][/list]
* Use as few ripping apps as possible (preferably one only)-Easy ripping experience.
* Bluray format should hold up for the long haul and hopefully be supported on a variety of software players (meaning I only want to rip once).
* I will ultimately run 3 HTPCs in different rooms using MC, so all should be able to play ripped bluray from NAS (WHS 2011 with 40TB capacity). The living room HTPC (prepro) must also be able to playback physical bluray discs on occasion.
* Resources related to bluray include one copy of Anydvd HD currently running on my main productivity PC (Intel i5 quad core), and three copies of Arcsoft's TMT3 platinum not installed on any PC.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Eric
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@EricTheBlue
Welcome to Interact.
Now that Media Center has native playback of the main title, simply copying a Blu-ray disk in whole to a hard drive is a pretty good choice. There's not currently a way to play things other than the main title this way, but hopefully that will be solved in the future.
You can also use tools like MakeMKV to make MKV files instead. These are a bit more portable, since more things understand MKV than BDMV. It's also a bit more work.
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I also think the mkv files will be somewhat less 'capable' if/when someone creates a menu reader/decoder and edition selection mechanism for Blu-Ray. I don't think the MKV format currently contains all the stuff needed to handle this the same way it would be handled by a native decoder.
so, although MKV's are generally more "useable" today (and all my blu-ray's are ripped as MKV files via makeMKV), I think the disc copy to hard drive would be the option with more choices available to you down the road, and at a negligible cost in storage.
if I had to start over, I'd likely use the disc copy method, since MC can handle that as well as MKV now. that's likely not true for most other players, however.
I don't think I'll ever care about the menu's personally, but the edition selection would make it worth it to me, probably.
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Matt, Justin:
Thanks for the quick feedback. So if I use the file copy-plackback method what ripper would you recommend for this? IMS, MakeMKV does allow the user to rip only the elements desired (main video, HD audio only, etc). I've been lurking on the AVS forum a lot and based on my read of Bluray rip threads there, some have mentioned tsMuxer for file ripping.
Eric
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another reason I have ripped to MKV is that it's very easy, and doesn't require any other software to function. Meaning, i don't own anyDVD HD, and have never used it. So, I don't currently have a way to rip the full file structure, but I believe anyDVD HD will allow you to do this. I have not tested any of the file structure functionality in MC, but from what i have read, it works great. You can point MC to the correct playlist for the different versions and launch whichever version directly; like you can with an MKV file now, more or less.
As for makeMKV, it will let you select whichever streams you like, whichever versions of audio and subtitles and whichever titles offered, like extras and previews. It does not currently give you any useful information about the video/files you can rip, only size and media type, but nothing about titles or versions. i usually rip everything, then delete the crap files later.
It has worked great for me for some time now. The files it creates can be split by LAV nicely, and LAV splitter can detect the forced flags in the regular/full subtitle streams and only present those for you automatically.
However, if you want to keep 2 versions of the movie (theatrical and directors cut), you'll need to MKV files, each full size, so double the disc space. I don't know why you'd want to keep both versions, but you may have to rip both versions with makeMKV, since you may not know which one is which from the data it presents you. simply deleting the 'wrong' one later is easy enough though.
nevcairiel, who develops LAV filters, has indicated his interest in getting some kind of a menu selection system working including edition selection, however, I think it remains pretty far down his list of things to do, and I'm not sure he's ever said he *can* do it, just that he'd like to. I'm sure if it's possible, he can do it, I just don't think it'll happen soon, but have no way of knowing his priorities there.
I've never used tsMuxer, so I can't comment on its usability for this.
hope that helps
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I have used tsMuxer and BDinfo for a while. They are very easy to use and free. BDinfo is for information only and will reveal what playlist you need to load into tsMuxer before you start muxing.
Another option is DVDFab, which is also very easy to use but this application you will have to pay for.
TLS
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Thanks to all for the advice. After some more research I installed Clown_BD (CBD) which combines tsMuxer and eac3to. Again I'm a total newbie at Bluray ripping so I stumbled through a test config for ripping to m2ts file format using CBD to strip out unnecessary content. CBD isn't the last word in terms of intuative UI for a newbie but I think I got it right. I didn't actually do the rip as I have to tweak my new NAS a bit first to offer a viable rip target. Further, though I'm itching to try MC I'm also waiting on AMD's A3800 CPU to come out (or a sale on the A3850) so I can build the HTPC MC will run on. I have all of the other pieced required except a mobo that I'll buy concurrently with the CPU. Rumor has it that the A3800 will become available some time this month so hopefully I can start my experiments in detail soon.
Thanks for the tip on BD Info. I'll download it today.
Eric
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I'm late, but to EricThe Blue,
I have been using a server to three HTPC set up for a while now.
I use MC for everything but TV, and TMT3 for Bluray playback (just started using MC 16 for Bluray playback, it works great for me).
To rip my audio CDs, I use MC, for DVDs and Blurays, I use DVDFab. The interface is very easy to use, it's fast (cuda acceleration), and allows trans coding and "main movie" rips as well as full "clone" rips to preserve menus (if you want to, I don't).
The only other advice I can give is very simple, use wired ethernet, neither N wireless nics, N bridges, nor Powerline adapters will carry Bluray content reliably.
Even 100 Mb/sec NICs on wire will carry most Bluray streams dropout-free.
For audio & DVD content, almost any wireless N or PowerLine system works. As you move up the bit stream scale, HDTV will work pretty reliably (usable, but with occasional dropouts) on the newest Powerline adapters from Netgear. Bluray streams (about 45 Mb/sec) stutter constantly on every N wireless and PowerLine system I've tried.
My N bridge adapters were barely usable for HDTV (much less reliable than Powerline), and wouldn't play a full second of my Avatar Bluray rip before going into full stutter mode.
I realize others are getting usable results with wireless N equipment, but more systems fail than work tolerably well.
You've chosen well, I hope you enjoy MC 16!
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lhwidget,
May I know the type of server you use to link it with your HTPC. Such as the brand type and specs etc.
Thanks
kuanj
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Hi,
It's a bit more than just a file server, I run Beyond TV and 4 two tuner cards for recording analog & Hi-Def TV from Cox Cable. This is operating on Windows Home Server, v1. Because of this, and the expectation of clear file serving while it is recording, I use:
A new Sandy Bridge i3 2100 dual core CPU
ASRock Z68 Extreme 4 motherboard (needed 5 PCIe slots & on-CPU video capability)
4 GB RAM
One 500 GB WD Black SATA v3 (6Gb/sec) system drive
Two 1 TB WD Black SATA v3 (6 Gb/sec) data drives
4 Hauppauge 2250 TV Cards
1 Intel PCIe GBit NIC
No video card
This is plenty fast, reliable, runs cool with only case fans, is quiet and, while it wasn't cheap, it wasn't too expensive either.
For audio & video streaming only, you could easily get good results with a dual core Celeron and green drives.
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lhwidget,
Thanks for your input.
kuanj
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lhwidget,
One moment, forget to ask you. Are you running JRiver on the Home Server (operting system instead of WIndows7)?
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No, since I'm using real PCs to to play content, I run JRiver on the clients and let them pull the content from the server. I do this to avoid needing to transcode anything being served to clients.
The problem is, when recording live shows on the server, or serving live TV from the server, you need to keep as many running programs off of it as possible to prevent dropouts in the recordings and live TV streams.
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lhwidget,
Thanks and have a good day
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You're welcome, and sorry for the brief hi-jack.
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Thanks for the advice: After trying Clown BD vs. MakeMkv for bluray rips, I'm leaning toward MakeMkv as my defacto ripper due to its relative speed, efficient storage, and ease of use.
My home network is wired via Gb ethernet and based on the very limited streaming of bluray I've done so far from my DIY NAS (based on Norco 4224 case + MS WHS 2011), all appears to be working well. Due in large part I think to stripping out the main title and soundtrack, I'm pleasantly surprised at how little space (relatively speaking) the mkv files are taking up. Though I'd like to implement a RAID4-like solution ultimately like Flexraid or unRaid, I have sufficient storage space that I think I'll just be able to duplicate my movie folders for the near-term via the Stable bit plug-in for WHS 2011 while the RAID4 apps mature a bit. Though Covecube's Stablebit app is still in Beta, it has proven to be rock solid so far.
I'm late, but to EricThe Blue,
I have been using a server to three HTPC set up for a while now.
I use MC for everything but TV, and TMT3 for Bluray playback (just started using MC 16 for Bluray playback, it works great for me).
To rip my audio CDs, I use MC, for DVDs and Blurays, I use DVDFab. The interface is very easy to use, it's fast (cuda acceleration), and allows trans coding and "main movie" rips as well as full "clone" rips to preserve menus (if you want to, I don't).
The only other advice I can give is very simple, use wired ethernet, neither N wireless nics, N bridges, nor Powerline adapters will carry Bluray content reliably.
Even 100 Mb/sec NICs on wire will carry most Bluray streams dropout-free.
For audio & DVD content, almost any wireless N or PowerLine system works. As you move up the bit stream scale, HDTV will work pretty reliably (usable, but with occasional dropouts) on the newest Powerline adapters from Netgear. Bluray streams (about 45 Mb/sec) stutter constantly on every N wireless and PowerLine system I've tried.
My N bridge adapters were barely usable for HDTV (much less reliable than Powerline), and wouldn't play a full second of my Avatar Bluray rip before going into full stutter mode.
I realize others are getting usable results with wireless N equipment, but more systems fail than work tolerably well.
You've chosen well, I hope you enjoy MC 16!
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Thanks for the advice: After trying Clown BD vs. MakeMkv for bluray rips, I'm leaning toward MakeMkv as my defacto ripper due to its relative speed, efficient storage, and ease of use.
I have and use both Clown_BD and MakeMKV regularly. For BD rips, I prefer Clown to rip the movie to M2TS format. Since m2ts is the native format of Blu-ray it will play on any HTPC. With mkv you need to install addtional software or make a registry hack. Not that either of those steps is difficult. The only reason I can think of to use mkv for BD is if you want to retain Chapter support. But for my use, I just want the main movie.
Two of your three reasons stated for using MakeMKV seem to be the opposite of my experiences (I don't know which is more efficient in terms of storage). I find C_BD more user freindly than MKV. Also, there is a very active support group (slysoft forum) for Clown.
Just my opinion.
Enjoy.
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I have and use both Clown_BD and MakeMKV regularly. For BD rips, I prefer Clown to rip the movie to M2TS format. Since m2ts is the native format of Blu-ray it will play on any HTPC. With mkv you need to install addtional software or make a registry hack. Not that either of those steps is difficult. The only reason I can think of to use mkv for BD is if you want to retain Chapter support. But for my use, I just want the main movie.
Two of your three reasons stated for using MakeMKV seem to be the opposite of my experiences (I don't know which is more efficient in terms of storage). I find C_BD more user freindly than MKV. Also, there is a very active support group (slysoft forum) for Clown.
Just my opinion.
Enjoy.
A few comments:
* As I (and I assume most people reading this thread) will be using JRiver for bluray playback and JRiver supports mkv files natively, I don't see any advantage of M2TS over mkv.
* I'm not sure what additional software you're talking about with regard to mkv installation. I simply downloaded a single executable, installed it, and started ripping. No registry hacking was required. My total download and install time was less than five minutes.
* Does Clown BD require AnyDVD or DVDfab to be running to rip? If yes, this means two pieces of software as opposed to one with MakeMKV plus the cost of AnyDVD. I had AnyDVD running at the time I tried Clown BD so I don't know if the latter works without the former.
* I do want chapter and menu support for a few discs in my collection (my Animusic DVDs for example).
* Though I didn't find Clown BD or MakeMKV difficult to use, I definitely found MakeMKV to be more intuitive for bluray/DVD rip newbees like me. It's been a couple of weeks since I last used Clown BD so correct me if I wrong but doesn't it require opening several windows to parse the disc contents completely? With MakeMKV I only click one icon after the disc is inserted in the drive to do this, and all elements for ripping can be selected or de-selected from the same window. The the rip is executed with one more icon click (labled "Make MKV"-again pretty intuitive) within the same window. Though I didn't find Clown BD to be difficult to use, it wasn't quite as easy from a UI perspective as MakeMKV either.
* Finally, because Clown BD rips native files, multiple files will be saved within a given movie folder correct? Being the simpleton I am I prefer the single file MakeMKV produces from a file management perspective.
*In terms of ripped file size I got similar results to Assassin in the AVS forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20797987#post20797987. Picking the exact same content (video, HD audio, subtitles) MakeMKV produced a file ~ 1 GB smaller than the Clown BD/AnyDVD result. Given HDD prices these days this difference isn't a big deal in and of itself, but multiply that by the 100 movies I'm still in the process of ripping and it adds up.
The bottom line is that either package will get the job done with good results. It simply comes down to one's ripping preferences and values.
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The m2ts file yield better resolution than the MKV file.
The m2ts file stores the 1080p (high definition playback)
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The m2ts file yield better resolution than the MKV file.
The m2ts file stores the 1080p (high definition playback)
My understanding is that MakeMKV does not compress anything. Rather it combines the original source audio and video streams into a common container file. If I'm wrong about this and MakeMKV is reducing resolution during ripping please provide a source. This would change my mind concerning which software to use.
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Sorry, technically I am not able to explain but had tried it by ripping AVATAR
in both formats and playback to compare the resolution.
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* Finally, because Clown BD rips native files, multiple files will be saved within a given movie folder correct? Being the simpleton I am I prefer the single file MakeMKV produces from a file management perspective.
*In terms of ripped file size I got similar results to Assassin in the AVS forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20797987#post20797987. Picking the exact same content (video, HD audio, subtitles) MakeMKV produced a file ~ 1 GB smaller than the Clown BD/AnyDVD result. Given HDD prices these days this difference isn't a big deal in and of itself, but multiply that by the 100 movies I'm still in the process of ripping and it adds up.
The bottom line is that either package will get the job done with good results. It simply comes down to one's ripping preferences and values.
I'm not critizing your choice. Just discussing the pros and cons.
Clown_BD can rip to a single file (TS or M2TS), or you can rip to ISO or BD folder format. I saw Asassin's posting regarding mkv being a smaller size - but it makes me wonder what is being left out of the mkv rip to make it smaller. After all its supposed to be a bit-to-bit copy. Maybe the comment by kuanj explains why mkv files are smaller.
My comments about mkv not being natively supported don't matter much if your running JRiver but if you want to play the file/movie on 7MC you can't unless you do a registry hack or install something like Shark007 codepack. Not important for us MC users, unless you wanted to bring a movie (say on a USB stick) to friends house to play.
Also all of the ripping programs need to have AnyDVD HD or Passkey (or similar) in the background to remove the "protections". MakeMKV has something built in to do that. With clown you run AnyDVD HD. So you can buy AnyDVD HD and run free Clown_BD or you can buy MakeMKV (I don't know what MakeMKV costs). However many have posted here and on AVS that AnyDVD is a better program and gets updated quicker when new protection schemes get released.
Anyway, enjoy whatever you have.
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Sorry, technically I am not able to explain but had tried it by ripping AVATAR
in both formats and playback to compare the resolution.
The posts on the following threads speak to the quality issue:
http://www.makemkv.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1980
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-1293890.html (last few posts in the thread)
I'll test a rip versus the original disc when I get a chance to determine if I see or hear any difference between them.
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I'm not critizing your choice. Just discussing the pros and cons...
No offense taken CB. Quite the contrary I value multiple opinions on the subject. You make a good point about portability to WMC7. At this point my only concern is loss of quality using MakeMKV for the rip. As previously stated I'll watch a mkv rip and the source bluray and check for differences. If I see degradation I'll definitely reconsider Clown BD/Anydvd. If not I'll stick with MakeMKV.
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From my POV on MKV vs M2TS etc:
Quality: This is normally about what container to use. The quality is exactly the same unless either the Video or Audio Stream is transocded prior to being muxed into MKV or M2TS
Size: The size is "about" the same, though it seems to depend on the format what is being done with the Audio in my experience. For example, during my conversion of HD-DVD to Blu I decided on some discs to convert DD+ to LPCM in many cases (this adds 2GB), also TrueHD is stored as THD+AC3 on Blu making it about 1/2GB Bigger on average. Pending on your settings you may also be extract just the "core" or just keeping a std DD track for example.
MKV: The advantage is that it is one file that can hold all streams and info including Chapters. Downside is it is less compatible with as many CE devices so you may be "stuck" on the PC or will need a transcoding engine if being streamed to these devices (eg the PS3 does not play MKV)
M2TS: Single file but no Chapter Support. Good compatibility with CE devices / streaming (pending type of audio/video)
Blu Structure: The Blu Structure adds Chapter Support. Good compatibility with CE devices / streaming (pending type of audio/video) and you simply "burn" to a blu disc if wanted.
I have pondered on all of this for ages especially since I had 100+ HD-DVD to convert (prior to my drive dieing) and several hundred Blu. Each to their own, but in the end I've decided to do the following:
1) Physical Blu-ray Discs: I've decided that in general it is not worth putting this on the Server as we just don't watch each title enough for the convenience that it brings. Physical discs are also very portable. I have however added the details of each discs in MC so we have a full catalog etc.
2) Ripping Blu-ray Discs: Prior to MC16 adding Blu support the Blu's I wanted to keep on the HTPC would be stored as ISO. I now store the full structure without removing any bits.
3) Converting HD-DVD: I've converted most of these to 25GB Blu-ray physical discs. A few I've kept on the HTPC as a Blu-structure. The TV Eps I've kept as individual M2TS files per episode
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Thanks jmone, that clarified a lot of options!
Eric, it sounds like you're well on your way to a nice system I know you'll enjoy.
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I'd like to add/contest that mkv has very good CE support now. Many BD players can play the format, as can WDTV, Patriot BoxOffice, Asus O-Play, Dune, PopcornHour, TVIX, Boxee, Mediasonic/Mediagate players and many Chinese no-name units.
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I'd like to add/contest that mkv has very good CE support now. Many BD players can play the format, as can WDTV, Patriot BoxOffice, Asus O-Play, Dune, PopcornHour, TVIX, Boxee, Mediasonic/Mediagate players and many Chinese no-name units.
Thanks - updated my post. Also got to love the Chinese "no-name" (and ones using their chipsets) and as with early DVD they offer much broader support for formats than many "name" brands.
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Thanks - updated my post. Also got to love the Chinese "no-name" (and ones using their chipsets) and as with early DVD they offer much broader support for formats than many "name" brands.
Most likely because they dont think much about legal implications. :p
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Thanks - updated my post. Also got to love the Chinese "no-name" (and ones using their chipsets) and as with early DVD they offer much broader support for formats than many "name" brands.
Cheers. There are actually quite a few ~$50 options out there for mkv now. Especially after mail-in rebates. Just the support of HD audio codecs is a little lacking, but DTS core is available on most. Even ~$150 tablets are getting on on the act.
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I've just upgraded to MC16, and installed AnyDVD HD and the whole thing is working like a charm. Many thanks.
One question: Regarding the audio that's going to my Xonar soundcard from the BD via MC, is there any way of seeing the sample rate and bit depth? I'm just getting the kbps figure and a "0 kHz" in the top window.
Any info' much appreciated.
Many thanks again.
Ben