INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 16 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: mojave on May 27, 2011, 10:33:36 am
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Now that DTS-MA can be decoded with LAV audio decoder and the ArcSoft dtsdecoderdll.dll file, is there any advantage to ripping Blu-rays to MKV with FLAC audio? All my current rips are with FLAC using madFLAC as the decoder. I would think the quality would be the same. I guess the ability to send to an external decoder at some point would be a benefit if I ever eschewed analog output from my HTPC.
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Same situation here. And yes - there is a problem. The 1.1.0.0 version of the Arcsoft DTS decoder applies the wrong channel matrix for any 7.1 content (you heard it here first ;-). The 1.1.0.8 is fine regarding any channel layout BUT isn't able to decode 6.1 streams at all. So there you have it - no version works for everything...
Solution: Rip anything to flac. I use 1.1.0.8 Arcsoft for all dts tracks BUT those with 6.1 (with Star Wars and LotR upcoming this is a big issue). For 6.1 I use the Sonic decoder...
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I have no idea which version was used for my rips. I think I only have three 7.1 rips anyway. Currently I have version 1.1.0.7 installed of dtsdecoderdll.dll. How should I check my 7.1 rips to see if the channel matrix is correct? I can rerip if necessary.
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I never checked 1.1.0.7
For 7.1 make sure to use 1.1.0.8
For 6.1 use Sonic
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I have an old version of TMT installed. eac3to uses its decoder for DTS HDMA tracks. How do I check which version?
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It looks like the easiest thing is for the channel matrix to be fixed with 1.1.0.0. Nevcairiel has confirmed to me that LAV Audio Decoder outputs correctly with 1.1.0.0. I'm still waiting to hear from madshi for eac3to.
I have an old version of TMT installed. eac3to uses its decoder for DTS HDMA tracks. How do I check which version?
Right click the dtsdecoderdll.dll file and click Properties. The Details tab will show the version.
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There is an interesting discussion on the eac3to thread at doom9 starting with post #10902 (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125966&page=546).
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This was discussed in the LAV thread with changed made in V27 to address it (I only have a 5.1 system so guess it is hard for me to tell!):
0.27 - 2011/05/24
LAV Audio
- Improvements to the DTS decoder interface
- Support for 1.1.0.0
- Try to reverse any channel upmixing done by the decoder, outputting the audio as close to the original source as possible.
- New Channel Mapping functionality
- Output only "standard" channel layouts (Mono, Stereo, 5.1, 6.1, 7.1), filling non-existant channels with silence. Required by some HDMI receivers with "odd" source layouts. (default)
- Convert Mono to Stereo (simply double the audio channel)
- Convert 6.1 to 7.1 (Back Center gets doubled into both back channels)
So for me I will no longer be looking to "rip" by Blu to any other container. I will either just play it off the disc OR copy the decrypted structure to the HDD and then tag either the BDMV, or if it has multiple playlists (eg alt endings, eps etc) then the correct MPLS.
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Right click the dtsdecoderdll.dll file and click Properties. The Details tab will show the version.
Would be simple enough if I could find that file... eac3to reports dts-hd decoder is present, but I am not at all able to find that file on my c: drive. I tried searching for dtsdecoder.dll also, no luck. Where is it?
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(pertaining to the original question) See, I don't have any of these problems with how and with what and what matrix,etc. I bitstream. Clap, clap, done. I rip with MakeMKV and I don't care (I could probably argue that it takes less to rip the dts-ma straight up, than to rip & transcode it to flac).
Rip to flac is a solution for people that can't bitstream and/or have receivers that can't deal with the original streams.
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(pertaining to the original question) See, I don't have any of these problems with how and with what and what matrix,etc. I bitstream. Clap, clap, done. I rip with MakeMKV and I don't care (I could probably argue that it takes less to rip the dts-ma straight up, than to rip & transcode it to flac).
Rip to flac is a solution for people that can't bitstream and/or have receivers that can't deal with the original streams.
Same here. It is MUCH easier on the ripping end, which is what matters to me. ;)
If I have to drop a frame every so often to keep audio in sync because of this? Meh. I'll live. If/when it all sorts itself out, I might change my tune, but for now that's my basic idea.
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(pertaining to the original question) See, I don't have any of these problems with how and with what and what matrix,etc. I bitstream. Clap, clap, done. I rip with MakeMKV and I don't care (I could probably argue that it takes less to rip the dts-ma straight up, than to rip & transcode it to flac).
Rip to flac is a solution for people that can't bitstream and/or have receivers that can't deal with the original streams.
Correct. If you have a receiver with DTS HD decoding just use bitstreaming. I use a pro audio interface via firewire. So for me transcoding everything to flac is the way to go.
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Correct. If you have a receiver with DTS HD decoding just use bitstreaming. I use a pro audio interface via firewire. So for me transcoding everything to flac is the way to go.
Second that. I also use studio DAC directly connected to my htpc, and need to transcode dts hd to flac. AC3 and DTS is straight forward to decode in realtime, though. TrueHD also, I think, but I haven't tried. And I do care about getting the matrix right, especially for the upcoming LotR arriving in my mailbox sometime this summer. Keep up the good work TheLion!
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As a followup to this thread, it has been shown recently in the LAV Filters thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191&page=194) that all the ArsSoft decoder versions do fine with DTS-HD with 1.0, 2.0, 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1 with two exceptions: Version 1.1.0.5 doesn't decode 1.0 and 1.1.0.8 decodes 1.0 to stereo. Any problems relating to decoding 6.1 using 1.1.0.8 have to do with eac3to and madshi is working on that.
As for me, I've started ripping and keeping the DTS-HD track and decoding with LAV Audio/ArcSoft rather than convert to FLAC.
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Also. There's a funny fact that I wasn't aware of since I don't use multichannel Flac. Flac doesn't know any channel order for anything above 5.1. If it's a 7.1 stream the back channels could be all over the place for all it knows.
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A 7.1 FLAC stream from a Blu-ray will normally have the same channel order as the original Blu-ray DTS-HD stream, which, according to this thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=63724.0 MC will now deal with correctly.
There seems to be some differences in channel order in different versions of the Arcsoft decoder too, discussed in the above linked thread.
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There seems to be some differences in channel order in different versions of the Arcsoft decoder too, discussed in the above linked thread.
When using LAV Audio Decoder with the ArcSoft DTS-HD decoder, all versions output the same channel order.
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Yeah, after reading some more on the subject I saw that the DTS-HD issue in the LAV splitter/decoder has been fixed :-)
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Thanks audunth for pointing to the other thread, I think I skipped it believing it's all about ASIO stuff.
However let me see if I got it right: we're relying on eac3to to use the correct version of a third party piece of software (Arcsoft DTS decoder), and write the "correct" channel order (if everybody finally agreed on what that is), in a container that does not support channel order for anything above 5.1. And then we rely on another piece of software (say MC), to pick up the channels in the same, deemed proper, order. If any user didn't read the doom9 post on the issue (therefore using maybe outdated or simply "incorect" versions for this and that) he's nowhere. (well, if he didn't read it he's probably not that adamant where his back surround channels are :) ).
Anyways, I don't know what you guys are calling this, but I will never move away from bitstreaming :).
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Anyways, I don't know what you guys are calling this, but I will never move away from bitstreaming :).
Never is a long time.
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Thanks audunth for pointing to the other thread, I think I skipped it believing it's all about ASIO stuff.
However let me see if I got it right: we're relying on eac3to to use the correct version of a third party piece of software (Arcsoft DTS decoder), and write the "correct" channel order (if everybody finally agreed on what that is), in a container that does not support channel order for anything above 5.1. And then we rely on another piece of software (say MC), to pick up the channels in the same, deemed proper, order. If any user didn't read the doom9 post on the issue (therefore using maybe outdated or simply "incorect" versions for this and that) he's nowhere. (well, if he didn't read it he's probably not that adamant where his back surround channels are :) ).
Anyways, I don't know what you guys are calling this, but I will never move away from bitstreaming :).
The point of my last few posts was to explain that you don't need to rely on eac3to, correct versions of the ArcSoft Decoder, or worry about "correct' channel order. You can save the DTS-HD audio track when ripping to MKV. You can then decode with LAV Audio using any of the versions of the ArcSoft DTS-HD decoder. The channel order is correct and MC outputs them in the correct order. I agree that conversion to FLAC could cause some issues and feel that the safest thing is to keep the original audio track.