INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 17 => Topic started by: Matt on September 28, 2011, 04:54:40 pm
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We're playing around with improving the television guide in Theater View. We think we can build a set of library views (like used for Audio, Movies, etc.) that work well for guide browsing. This has the advantage that the user experience (navigation, arrow behavior, etc.) and customization remains consistent. Glynor was playing with this same idea a while back.
Here's a few screenshots showing the idea. I only get a few channels with the antenna at the office, so you'll have to use your imagination a little bit.
Browsing into Television > Guide (not too different than today, but notice the roller of view styles on the second line):
(http://files.jriver.com/images/tv_guide_1.jpg)
Picking 'Time' to allow seeing up to a month ahead:
(http://files.jriver.com/images/tv_guide_3.jpg)
Picking 'Channel' to allow filtering by channel (and then time):
(http://files.jriver.com/images/tv_guide_2.jpg)
Browsing into a genre:
(http://files.jriver.com/images/tv_guide_4.jpg)
We think integrating 'Search' as a roller item would be another nice improvement. The current search is powerful, but too far away at the root under 'Gadgets'.
Thoughts?
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Still resisting the grid I see ::)
(http://www.myepg.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/epg.jpg)
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Have to agree, the other stuff is nice to have, but the grid is 100% necessary IMHO. I've used a lot of other software/hardware and no matter what is offered I alsways go back to the grid as it is easier to see/use.
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Resistance is futile.
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Resistance is futile.
You mean JRiver has given up resisting and will make a grid??? ;D
But seriously, a grid would be really nice and I think the best option, but I also think that the underlying design of TheaterView probably doesn't allow for it and therefore it may never happen. So if that is the case, then maybe it's best to say that rather than just throw up other options that evebody replies to with "We'd like a grid". We're the beta team, you can tell us and we promise not to tell the world :)
So if a grid won't happen then what Matt has posted is a lot better than what we have now, although I must say the guide needs to go out at least 7 to 10 days, so I'd suggest that the "Time" guide list the day first and then have a breakdown of times so that it's easy to jump forward 7 or 8 days in the guide without too much scrolling.
I'd also like to be able to filter the Time guide by channel so I can find a program that is showing in 7 days time on Channel Nine without having to scroll through 10 channels worth of guide.
And YES search is a requirement at the guide level!
Oh and finally, the ability to browse and schedule subscriptions from Theater View is a big one for my wife (and thus me) and I think the ability to browse/schedule with the same sort of guide structure from Gizmo would also be a great option.
Richard
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Please post screenshots of EPG's that you like.
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The grids I like are pretty much which jmone has posted which I believe is Media Center (by that other company...). 4 columns covering 2 hours. Description down below. Press info for more information etc... A spot for logos on the "channel buttons" make for some nice eye candy... but I suppose I could live without it. :)
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Yup like the pic of the Grid posted where:
- Rows for each Channel
- Cols for timezones
- Content of the grid has the name of the show and indicators for if it is to be recorded (eg a red dot) or is part of a schedule recording (eg a link graphics)
Navigation
- You navigate with the arrow keys and select an item with the enter key.
- Enter will either play the items (if it is current) or offer to schedule a recording (one off, linked) etc
- As you navigate your could update thumbnail / content summary
- "Info" button brings up more info and commands
- You can fast scroll to the right to find stuff that is days away
I'm sure there is more!
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Please post screenshots of EPG's that you like.
Windows Media Center does many things wrong but the TV section is bang on. I'd use this for inspiration.
I'm sure there is more!
One more I'd like is remote access so I can use the guide from my phone etc to schedule recordings..
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- You can fast scroll to the right to find stuff that is days away
How would you leave the grid? Up and down would scroll 600+ channels in some cases. If left and right roll through a full week or two, that means you're stuck in the grid with left and right too.
MCE requires the back button, which we do not require anywhere in Theater View.
Only showing a few columns at a time and requiring filtering (using a roller on top) is one solution, because then you could left arrow out. Although it's not clear to me that a grid like that would be better than the view in the screenshots.
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Until moving to using MC for my TV recordings I used Tv Scheduler Pro for many years. http://sourceforge.net/projects/tvschedulerpro/
There is even an open source version (originally callws Webscheduler) that others have taken and modified then bundled with their own software/hardware I believe.
It's EPG grid was simple, but worked well. Plus it's all done with xml & html files I think from memory, so maybe it can give you some ideas if you install it and have a look.
I think I used the <esc> button with TV Scheduler to go back, so a "Back" button on the MCE remore shoud do the job... certainly don't want to have to scroll too far to get out!
R
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How would you leave the grid? Up and down would scroll 600+ channels in some cases. If left and right roll through a full week or two, that means you're stuck in the grid with left and right too.
MCE requires the back button, which we do not require anywhere in Theater View.
Only showing a few columns at a time and requiring filtering (using a roller on top) is one solution, because then you could left arrow out. Although it's not clear to me that a grid like that would be better than the view in the screenshots.
I'd would imagine any of the following could be used to leave the grid:
* Left arrow from the "Now" Col,
* Right Arrow from the Last Col
* Up Arrow from the Top Row
* Bottom Arrow form the Bottom Row or ... my Fav ...
* the "Back" button
Of course any of the other content buttons on the RC would take you out of the grid, or you could use STOP etc....
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The other thing on grid size is that while it "could" be very big, mine would be say a Dozen Ch by two weeks of EPG data...
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While a grid-less view might look a tad better in Theater View, it's certainly better and more informative to look at a grid with upcoming shows on several channels.
Just 2 cents. Not that I'm using a tuner though.
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You always do this stuff when I'm busy or sick.
"Children are pits of disease" says Glynor with a 102 deg fever.
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How would you leave the grid?
I agree. Doing this cleanly is the biggest problem with adding it...
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We talked about this today.
1. Limit the number of columns so it isn't a big problem to move all the way to the left.
2. Press enter to bring up a menu that had "Exit to next level".
3. Press and hold left arrow.
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4. In addition the "Back" button
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That too. We're just trying to make it work with the Big Five Buttons.
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You always do this stuff when I'm busy or sick.
"Children are pits of disease" says Glynor with a 102 deg fever.
Sorry to hear that. I remember those days. I've never been sick more often that when I had small children. But I miss them now.
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One open topic is if the selected row should expand (like Theater View > News) to show a little of the description, or if the description should be at the bottom in a simplified Theater View File Info panel.
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One open topic is if the selected row should expand (like Theater View > News) to show a little of the description, or if the description should be at the bottom in a simplified Theater View File Info panel.
Bottom. I find the auto-expand feature while navigating news items a little jarring.
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I like the area the the bottom with brief desc / thumb etc and "i" would bring up more info if needed.
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I like the area the the bottom with brief desc / thumb etc and "i" would bring up more info if needed.
I envisage hitting enter on a cell would show a "details" view, much like the final level file info view we have now for other media. From here, you would see the full description, actors and other good stuff (configurable via the info panel option). Play/rec options would include:
- watch (if the program's on now - otherwise just tune to selected channel)
- record - once, subscription
- return to grid
- exit to main menu
In the grid itself (ala MCE) a little PIP of the program (if it's playing) would also be cool. Nav to this and hitting enter could take you to Display View.
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Sound fine to me, I'd also see that Pressing PLAY would.... "Watch a current prog"
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I envisage hitting enter on a cell would show a "details" view, much like the final level file info view we have now for other media. From here, you would see the full description, actors and other good stuff (configurable via the info panel option).
This makes the most sense to me.
I like the area the the bottom with brief desc / thumb etc and "i" would bring up more info if needed.
This is fine as long as you are able to also "open" it to see further details somehow.
I'm afraid that if you do it at the bottom and have Enter play the file directly, you'll be limiting the amount of info you can display about a particular show. This is what Sage shows in its Program Info dialog (this is just a show in the guide, not one I've recorded, and you can scroll this screen down to get further info):
(http://glynor.com/img/screenshots/SageTV7-Program_Info.jpg)
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We talked about this today.
1. Limit the number of columns so it isn't a big problem to move all the way to the left.
If you do this... Can you make it so the FF/RW command (or Next/Prev Track, I don't care which) can navigate the guide without limits? In fact, one feature of the Sage grid view I appreciate is the ability to use the Next/Previous Track (or FF/RW) buttons to skip forward 24 hours at a time.
That way, those of us with more capable remotes would still be able to navigate far into the future. I often navigate far ahead to see what movies HBO has coming up over the next two weeks, for example. Of course, this might not be necessary if you also have access to upcoming programming views more like what Matt posted in the first post (and like those I discussed in the TV thread).
Also...
I'm quite excited about this. I swear... Just a few more little steps and I'll be ready to take up that big project again. Summer was a terrible time to try to start that, even if it would have been convenient for other reasons.
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I envisage hitting enter on a cell would show a "details" view, much like the final level file info view we have now for other media. From here, you would see the full description, actors and other good stuff (configurable via the info panel option). Play/rec options would include:
- watch (if the program's on now - otherwise just tune to selected channel)
- record - once, subscription
- return to grid
- exit to main menu
In the grid itself (ala MCE) a little PIP of the program (if it's playing) would also be cool. Nav to this and hitting enter could take you to Display View.
I agree. Especially the use of todays info panel. It would be very good for consistency. I'm not sure how great it would look if the resolution is low though. If it's no good with reasonable resolutions, then a description and picture at the bottom would do well. As well as more info when hitting enter or "i" perhaps?
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Getting warmer?
(http://files.jriver.com/images/tv_guide_5.jpg)
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Getting warmer?
Very nice and user-friendly :). Now, if this is integrated with some way to remove the advertisements (or at least mark them in the video stream) - I would love to switch to MC16 for all my TV watching and DVR needs .
Osho
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Looks great! I checked a few other EPG screen shots regarding width of the Col and how many get displayed. While many show 2hrs at a time (eg like the sample), others are 3hrs+, it is about the balance I guess! Is this something that will be static or will it depend on the screen size?
(http://mobilewares.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/image5b365d.png)
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Grid taking shape nicely Matt, how exciting!!
I like the channel logos on the screenshot jmone just posted. Any chance we can assign logos in MC and display them? And maybe on other pages as well, not just the grid. \
And visual indication of programs scheduled to be recoorded is important too.
Richard
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For me you want to use the space as effectivly as possible. I also like the seperation of the day marker from the time in the Grid.
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Definitely getting there :)
I think you probably want start and end times in the info panel though.
Also, how about combining this with the TVDb backdrop code to create a much more dynamnic view?
Final point-
Any love for DVB-S please? Yaobing promised to look into this several years ago, and nothing happened. I don't have anything but a satelitte dish............
-Leezer-
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I think it looks great Matt but I'm more interested in any additional functionality this will give to MC TV. Specifically, to give up my current PVR software for good, I'd need :
- support for a single tuner to record multiple streams on the same channel (for more efficient use of the tuner pool)
- guide search facility by program name
- up to 7 day EPG support
- setup recurring subscriptions (with EPG match options such as by name, channel, time-range etc)
- remote access of the guide for scheduling (iPhone, browser etc)
- COMSKIP or similar support.
The first 4 are critical IMO.
I like where this is going. Finally!! Hope these features are not too much to ask for. I think they're equally important to the visual layout of the EPG.
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I think it looks great Matt but I'm more interested in any additional functionality this will give to MC TV. Specifically, to give up my current PVR software for good, I'd need :
- support for a single tuner to record multiple streams on the same channel (for more efficient use of the tuner pool)
- guide search facility by program name
- up to 7 day EPG support
- setup recurring subscriptions (with EPG match options such as by name, channel, time-range etc)
- remote access of the guide for scheduling (iPhone, browser etc)
- COMSKIP or similar support.
The first 4 are critical IMO.
I like where this is going. Finally!! Hope these features are not too much to ask for. I think they're equally important to the visual layout of the EPG.
I agree with this 100%. The bar to give up my current PVR software for MC is fairly high for me. Though I would love to do this - this has been one of my pet peeves with MC16 and what keeps me from recommending it whole-heartedly to someone who asks me for a recommendation for "one-stop HTPC software".
Thanks,
Osho
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I'm still working on this. It's been trickier than I expected.
The guide is built around regular library views. This mean you use and customize television browsing just like you do any other media type. Grid is just a new list style that works with any set of files. This should provide a more flexible experience than had we just added a special-case guide view.
But it requires a bunch of internal work.
The database didn't have a way to say "show programs on between now and 72 hours from now", so the search language needed updating, including understanding time ranges since "on now" could include a program started several hours ago.
Then, we didn't have lists that scrolled in both dimensions in Theater View, so that needed doing.
Then, we needed row and column headers which we hadn't used in Theater View before.
Then, we needed a list style that's a cross between a grid and a freeform list (since programs normally but not always start on half-hour boundaries).
Then, we needed a special file-info template designed to go at the bottom of the screen.
Finally, there was lots of performance work because 1000 channels * 48 half-hour slots a day * several days means there are lots of list items in play at a time.
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It does indeed sound like a bit of work. Even though I'm not using this because of the lack of other DVB support, I'm glad for the shape this is taking. It was a rather big part missing for a long time.
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Also, how about combining this with the TVDb backdrop code to create a much more dynamnic view?
Good idea.
(http://files.jriver.com/images/tv_guide_6.jpg)
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Like!
Am not a TV user, but this is nice work, Matt, at least from the still.
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- guide search facility by program name
- up to 7 day EPG support
- setup recurring subscriptions (with EPG match options such as by name, channel, time-range etc)
Coming at the same time as the grid. Subscription management will be basic from Theater View.
- support for a single tuner to record multiple streams on the same channel (for more efficient use of the tuner pool)
I'm investigating, although this seems like a corner case. If you're running out of tuners regularly, why not just add another tuner?
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- remote access of the guide for scheduling (iPhone, browser etc)
Library Server already allows you to use Media Center from anywhere to configure or watch television recordings.
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Library Server already allows you to use Media Center from anywhere to configure or watch television recordings.
But only from a PC running MC ?
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I'm investigating, although this seems like a corner case. If you're running out of tuners regularly, why not just add another tuner?
I don't think it's a corner case. I know of many software PVR's that support this. It just makes sense IMO. Why use another tuner to record a channel that's already being recorded?
Thanks for looking at all of this.
PS - hopefully the subscription feature set will get expanded over time.
PSS - I suspect I can't view the guide and schedule recordings from my iPhone. This is what I meant by remote/browser support.
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I'd also love to see improved/more comprehensive logging for TV too. This would help in diagnosing signal/reception issues and pinpoint device conflicts and the likes. At the moment, when a recording fails, it's virtually impossible to work out what went wrong.
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I don't think it's a corner case. I know of many software PVR's that support this. It just makes sense IMO. Why use another tuner to record a channel that's already being recorded?
Perhaps you should explain what you are looking for in more detail, because I'm not sure I fully understand.
I think what you are talking about is the idea that if a tuner is in-use on a particular channel, that it should "prefer" to record other shows on that same channel later that day using the same tuner (to avoid a set of tuners "ping-ponging" back and forth with a bunch of consecutive shows in one night).
This can be useful. I've used PVR software both before and since the ones I used had this feature (both BeyondTV and SageTV do this). Sometimes the "ping pong" can be problematic. This happens most often when you have "handles" on your video files (start recording 2 min before, stop 3 min after). The handles are useful if you have shows that don't always fit their assigned schedules quite perfectly, to avoid missing a scene here or there (nothing is more irritating than when you miss 1/2 of the, usually hysterical, "bonus" clip at the end of BBT). However, if you subscribe to a bunch of shows that all air sequentially, you can sometimes run out of tuners (or unnecessarily degrade to a lower quality analog SD tuner, perhaps) not because a tuner wasn't free for that 30 minutes, but because it wasn't "free" for 4 minutes of that 34 minutes because of the "handles". This avoids that problem. If shows air sequentially, the tuner will ignore the relevant conflicting handles and keep recording the channel. It isn't always perfect, though and sometimes can work against you. The logic can be tricky.
So, anyway... I'm not sure that is what you are talking about. Because you might be talking about recording multiple simultaneous things (two different audio tracks, maybe) on the same tuner. That, I have to agree with Matt, is probably a bit of an edge case. Might be cool, but... Not a top-tier required feature for most users, I'd guess. I think we're still in "get the basics up to par" mode with MC's PVR functionality.
However... One thing I feel is lacking in this system from most of the PVR software I've tried is maintaining the connection to that "stream" of programming after the arbitrary "cut" points.
So, in my setup when Sage encounters a day where a bunch of shows air sequentially on the same channel, it will usually record them all on the same tuner (it doesn't always seem to work, for whatever reason). It is nice, even if it does "cut" one of those scenes, the division is almost frame-perfect. I think it must keep the recording going seamlessly, and then "blade" the file afterwards to make the cut. If you can find the next "piece" of the recording, you can pick back up right where you left off, usually in the same "word" of a line of dialog. But finding it is often the problem. If, despite my handles, a show still ends abruptly mid-scene (like one of those bonus scenes I was talking about before), and MC has the next "piece" in-order, it would be nice to have it just seamlessly continue into the next file until I hit stop. Or at least queue the next file, and lead me to it in some way.
I've often "subscribed" to a particular show two or three years ago, or based on a search. I don't know when they're scheduled, more than a vague "this show airs on Wednesday, I think", for all but my absolute favorites. And I certainly don't notice if they move the schedules around, or new shows start airing and suddenly things conflict or whatever, unless it tells me. But figuring out what show that "missing handle" is on is often quite challenging.... Involving finding the particular show I was watching in the guide (many days off, usually), figuring out what aired after it, then figuring out if I have that show recorded, hoping it recorded that airing of the episode and not some other airing, and then checking the beginning of that file for my missing scene. Usually by then, I've lost interest, and my wife certainly has.
That would be a very helpful and unique feature.
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Perhaps you should explain what you are looking for in more detail, because I'm not sure I fully understand.
Here in OZ, each channel broadcasts multiple streams (with unique video and audio IDs) on the same frequency. My current PVR software uses a "producer" and "consumer" approach to allow better sharing of devices. A producer process "tunes" into a channel and presents all possible video/audio streams and a consumer (the process doing the recording) consumes a single stream. When subsequent recordings are started, the software first checks to see if there's already a producer process started for the channel/frequency in question. If yes, it spawns another consumer process and hooks into the existing producer, avoiding the need for another tuner.
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Here in OZ, each channel broadcasts multiple streams (with unique video and audio IDs) on the same frequency. My current PVR software uses a "producer" and "consumer" approach to allow better sharing of devices. A producer process "tunes" into a channel and presents all possible video/audio streams and a consumer (the process doing the recording) consumes a single stream. When subsequent recordings are started, the software first checks to see if there's already a producer process started for the channel/frequency in question. If yes, it spawns another consumer process and hooks into the existing producer, avoiding the need for another tuner.
Exactly (see TV Scheduler Pro link I provided earlier as this is what Ralf is using and I used to use).
For me I don't want MC to use three tuners when for example I am watching ABC1 live, and recording two sequential shows on ABC2, during this MC uses two tuners to record one show and watch one show, but then during the overlap period between the shows on ABC2 MC uses three tuners! When all of it could be done with one tuner. Both ABC1 and ABC2 are from the same broadcaster and broadcast on the same frequency.
Richard
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FYI - when I was working with Yaobing on the DTV-T support at one point we were saving all streams for a group in one hit then flagging which streams to playback. Eg we were saving to disc all the channels for each group, so Ch7 would save Ch7-1, Ch7-2, Ch7-HD etc then flag which streams to playback.
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I'd also love to see improved/more comprehensive logging for TV too. This would help in diagnosing signal/reception issues and pinpoint device conflicts and the likes. At the moment, when a recording fails, it's virtually impossible to work out what went wrong.
Have you tried the existing logging under Help?
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Have you tried the existing logging under Help?
I have and it's very hard to work out why a recording from two days ago didn't record when it should have.
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Here in OZ, each channel broadcasts multiple streams (with unique video and audio IDs) on the same frequency. My current PVR software uses a "producer" and "consumer" approach to allow better sharing of devices. A producer process "tunes" into a channel and presents all possible video/audio streams and a consumer (the process doing the recording) consumes a single stream. When subsequent recordings are started, the software first checks to see if there's already a producer process started for the channel/frequency in question. If yes, it spawns another consumer process and hooks into the existing producer, avoiding the need for another tuner.
Thanks.
So, yes, you were talking about something other than what I was thinking, but it sounds like Matt got it.
As I said before... That would certainly be a good feature, but I don't know that I'd call it a high-priority item. Of course, I'm biased by the fact that they don't broadcast much of use on the "sub channels" here across the pond in most cases. Here, you almost always just have 2 or 3 different "copies" of the same programming (one 480i, one 480p, one 720p, etc) or the same programming with different audio tracks (spanish vs english vs french, etc).
There are exceptions.... Our Public Broadcasting System (PBS) broadcasts similar to what you described (they actually use the sub-channels for different content), but since that only applies to OTA broadcasts, and not even QAM (Time Warner breaks those different feeds up and puts them on different channels for me), I suspect most people never even see it here.
Also... Can most commercially available ATSC Tuners actually do this (record multiple streams on the same channel simultaneously), or would this feature also be hardware dependent? It seems like it might require a fast disk if nothing else...
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For me I don't want MC to use three tuners when for example I am watching ABC1 live, and recording two sequential shows on ABC2, during this MC uses two tuners to record one show and watch one show, but then during the overlap period between the shows on ABC2 MC uses three tuners!
Recording overlapping segments of the same channel should already use a single tuner. This is part of the reason we use JTV -- so that two programs can share the same chunks of a recording.
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Recording overlapping segments of the same channel should already use a single tuner. This is part of the reason we use JTV -- so that two programs can share the same chunks of a recording.
Good to hear.
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Recording overlapping segments of the same channel should already use a single tuner. This is part of the reason we use JTV -- so that two programs can share the same chunks of a recording.
"should" yes I agree, but doesn't.
I tested this today to make sure.
I set two overlapping programs to record on the same channel and when the second recording started it was on a seperate tuner.
Show status shows program 1 on Device 0 and program 2 on device 1.
Richard
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Quick run though of the EPG Grid looks good (thanks 1 and 2 of 5)!
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I agree, the new grid guide looks very pomising.
A couple of things so far....
1) There needs to be a visual indication on the grid of programs that are one off scheduled recordings, subscriptions and ideally also those currently recording, maybe just different background or font colours?
2) The pre-post buffer time of 1 minute is never enough over here, so I always change mine to 5 pre and 10 post, could we please have these configurable in the TV options? So when creating a subscription (especially in Theater View) they will be set without me having to go back in and change them from 1 minute every time?
Thanks
Richard
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1) There needs to be a visual indication on the grid of programs that are one off scheduled recordings, subscriptions and ideally also those currently recording, maybe just different background or font colours?
I agree, and it's on my list.
There are also some navigation issues (like handling back, etc.) that need work.
Finally, the list needs some sort of "there are no guide programs" message when it's empty.
2) The pre-post buffer time of 1 minute is never enough over here, so I always change mine to 5 pre and 10 post, could we please have these configurable in the TV options? So when creating a subscription (especially in Theater View) they will be set without me having to go back in and change them from 1 minute every time?
Good idea.
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So... I've been thinking about the new Grid view style for Theater View, and how handy it could be for a wide variety of other types of View Schemes.
For example, what about this: A View that shows the last 10 days or so of your recently recorded/imported media, organized by [Date Created]-d. The Y axis (where the "channel listing" would be in a normal TV-Guide grid) represents days of the week. The X axis (where you'd have the days/time normally) would represent time (say 1 hour wide columns). When you open this view up at first, it "centers" on the current day and time in the upper-left corner. Inside the grid, you'd have blocks filled (just like a TV guide shows) showing the shows you have recorded. As you scroll down in the list from the "home position" you'd go back in time through the days, left and right through the time of the day.
It would be really nice for those times when you want to sit and choose something to watch, and you want to look back at what you have from the past week or so. You could just set the time axis at primetime, and then scroll up and down through the days (but really you'd probably be able to see at least a few days all at once that way - even with duplicate "day" rows here and there for overlapping recordings), and left and right a little to go earlier in the day or later.
But that would require a pretty large left-right scroll space (24 columns for 1 hour blocks). So, that'd be a problem for "escaping" from those views. But that is really a problem for the normal Program Guide Grid too. Limiting the size arbitrarily feels like a hack solution. It doesn't scale well.
What about the Green Button? I mean, keep it like it is, so that if you do reach the "edge" of the Grid (top or left) it will let you "out" (and don't allow infinite edge grid views). But what if when a Grid-View control has the focus the first press of the Green Button serves to jump you immediately back to the roller? Like a shortcut, if you know it is there. After jumping back to the Roller, the Green Button would resume "normal" (current) functionality. So a second (or third or fourth) press of the Green Button would not "re-enter" the Grid View ever, just cycle through using the system it now uses (jumping back to the Roller when it hits the still-open Grid View).
And then we can just make a demo movie for Theater View and include that tip. But people might try it anyway. The Green Button "jumps" back to home in Theater View already, so it feels like a "get me out of here" button anyway.
I think that would work nicely and cleanly, and not require any new "required" buttons for the remote.
PS. I have other ideas for the grid control too. Eventually, a scheduling view something like Sage's would be very handy:
(http://glynor.com/img/screenshots/SageTV-Parallel_Rec_Schedule.jpg)
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First of all, my wife will love this, so I love you ;D
Second - any chance of implementing the ability to save logos for the channels? I know the discussion regarding 'eye candy' has been had to death, but in this case I think it would add something to the experience.
Third - any chance of adding the ability to add IPTV streams as channels on the guide (and allocate channel numbers). For instance, here in Oz Telstra Bigpond ISP provides a number of IPTV channels - an AFL channel, a music video channel, a 24hr news channel etc that I would love to integrate into the overall Television view. There would be no guide data per se, but you could select it from the guide or by entering a channel number on your remote.
You guys never cease to amaze me with the willingness you have to listen to your customers. And I'll never stop raving about you :-)
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Yes the basic grid as made it! Now a couple of tweaks (more than Eye Candy IMO) to add to its usability would include stuff like follows (and Matt has indicated that such things are on his list...but it is a long list!)
- Channel Logos (this is the same concept as Coverart that we have everywhere else in MC)
- Recording Indicators (Red Dot for recording, Chain Link for Lined recording etc)
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How about colour coding according to the type of program (movie, sport, documentary etc). I found this a nice feature in WMC.
Paul.
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I like the idea of a reworked Theatre View TV EPG - very valuable to make MC a (the?) cornerstone HTPC application.
Will MC17 offer EPG OTA for DVB-T signals like WMC does? I've scanned the threads but can't immediately find anything. I know an EPG can be achieved outside MC for DVB-T signals, but an integrated OTA EPG would be very helpful and increase the value of the TV and PVR capability of MC to those less comfortable "looking under the hood".
Also any scope for a web based TV recording scheduler so we can remotely control our PVR, whether on a PC or a smartphone or a tablet or iPad?
And just to mention a big thanks to Yaobing for all his efforts to get TV working for me on MC16 - I really appreciate your responsiveness. I'm not quite there, but we removed a number of possible MC related causes and I'm now going to refocus on signal and driver issues. Thanks again Yaobing.
Zeno
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Matt said earlier that the grid used in theatre view was created as a generic component - as such it would be great if the grid format EPG could also be available in the Standard View. Is that possible?
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Grid is necessary.
2 main Features for TV recording should be implemented:
- Select a program to the grid and record it as a delayed program (through windows task in order to wake up PC)
- Live TV -> Instant recording wich displays a pop-up to set time duration and action ending (stand-by windows, stop windows, close program, nothing to do)
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- Select a program to the grid and record it as a delayed program (through windows task in order to wake up PC)
You can do this. As long as you have server running, MC will wake from standby to record, then return to standby when finished.
- Live TV -> Instant recording wich displays a pop-up to set time duration and action ending (stand-by windows, stop windows, close program, nothing to do)
You can use the OSD (Up/Down/Left/Right arrows) while watching a program to record current program or set durations, though you cannot select the action to perform when completed.
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Grid is necessary.
2 main Features for TV recording should be implemented:
- Select a program to the grid and record it as a delayed program (through windows task in order to wake up PC)
- Live TV -> Instant recording wich displays a pop-up to set time duration and action ending (stand-by windows, stop windows, close program, nothing to do)
MC will wake a PC now, record, and put it back to sleep. That has been there a couple of years.
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I didn't have much time to play with 17 last night due to the fact that I had recordings coming up on tuners and didn't want to miss things being taped, but I had a couple issues with the guide. The grid view looked great but it didn't display all of my channels. When I would scroll down when I got to the bottom it wouldn't continue scrolling. I also got a lot of text stacking artifacts on the top line of the guide. I couldn't tell what it was because it was so jumbled, so I don't know if it was guide listings, or error messages or other stuff. I will try to play with 17 on my test rig today.
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Installed 17 on my test-rig and it does scroll down through channels. Still have the junk in the top line though. Here's a screenshot.
I also never noticed the transparency of Theater View in 16, but maybe it was there and I just noticed it now in 17. Will look more into it...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14569758/JRiver/SS_10-21-11.png)
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Installed 17 on my test-rig and it does scroll down through channels. Still have the junk in the top line though. Here's a screenshot.
I also never noticed the transparency of Theater View in 16, but maybe it was there and I just noticed it now in 17. Will look more into it...
Could you send a library backup to matt at jriver dot com? Hopefully using that I'll be able to reproduce the channel list missing channels.
Thanks.
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I figured out the transparency thing with theater view, I had the Noire Glass or whatever on Standard view. Changing that fixed Theater View.
I'm not missing channels on my test rig at work, so it's probably something simple on my home computer. If I can't get it sorted out, I will send the email to you.
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Just installed the latest build and it seems to have taken care of the text-artifacting on the top row.
Nice work!
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Other than the color coding for schedules and recorded programs which I ko is on the way eventually, can we also add the following.
1) If a program is recorded, allow us to "watch" it from the guide.
2) Show a vertical marker down the grid, or some other indication of what the time is NOW. I keep selecting something in the grid and gettin told the program is in the past, very frustrating!
Cheers
Richard
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Other than the color coding for schedules and recorded programs which I ko is on the way eventually, can we also add the following.
1) If a program is recorded, allow us to "watch" it from the guide.
2) Show a vertical marker down the grid, or some other indication of what the time is NOW. I keep selecting something in the grid and gettin told the program is in the past, very frustrating!
Cheers
Richard
I understand that the guide has to go back far enough to show programs that are still playing, but if it's playing a 2 hour movie, started 100 minutes ago, much of the programs that have started since that show started are now over and would give the "in the past" message.
I'd like to see the name of the show displayed (and be selectable) only if it's still actually showing.
In other words, once the end of a show has passed, make the box in the guide blank, so I'm not tempted to select it.
Also, can you please change the mouse scroll wheel to go up/down thru the guide, and not left/right; it's counter-intuitive and I don't see any other way to scroll down thru the channels.
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The guide need a clock in the corner somewhere giving the current time. Also if you look at the guide in WMC the earlies time in the guide is the current guide. Now if the guide allows you to go back in time that is nice, but there needs to be a current time marker in the guide. Look at the way the WMC guide does it.
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The guide need a clock in the corner somewhere giving the current time.
My suggestion was to move the clock globally. Away from the lower right corner on the main menu, and up to the right corner for ALL views that has rollers visible. This would help more than television people. I think it was considered, but there was some concerns that the clock on the OSD was at the bottom. A concern I don't quite share btw.
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A clock in theatre view. No!!!. That will mean I have no excuse for not realizing all the time I wasted in front of the box :) Ignorance is bliss.
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My suggestion was to move the clock globally. Away from the lower right corner on the main menu, and up to the right corner for ALL views that has rollers visible. This would help more than television people. I think it was considered, but there was some concerns that the clock on the OSD was at the bottom. A concern I don't quite share btw.
Here are some directions on how to display Time and Zone in the upper left side by creating a new Skin based on Obsidian and tweaking the main.xml file. You can leave only "[Time]" (ignoring the ★ [Zone] part): http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59351.0 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59351.0)
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Here are some directions on how to display Time and Zone in the upper left side by creating a new Skin based on Obsidian and tweaking the main.xml file. You can leave only "[Time]" (ignoring the ★ [Zone] part): http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59351.0 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=59351.0)
I think the point is a TV guide needs a clock as a default not some way of tweaking the file. If you don't want a clock in EPG then you perhaps you should have some way to disable it. This is especially true of an EPG that shows the past as if it was the present.
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Very glad to see this new view, it was much needed, thanks.
I am finding it very difficult to understand what the scroller on the mouse is doing. At first it seemed to scroll down through the list of channels, but then it seemed to scroll sideways quite randomly. I was at 7pm, few scrolls later I am at 2am on a different channel. Is there a bug or some logic I can't see?
Getting the images from the internet is quite nice (as it is for tv on the hdd), but again it is far to slow to be useful, you have navigated off a show well before the image is fetched. Why can't these images be cached as many shows are repeated from week to week? It would be worth having the option of swapping out a full background image with a banner image fetched from thetvdb and put at the bottom of the screen where the show description is. If this was cached you are getting a very fast image at the base that may not be too distracting??
Craig
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Getting the images from the internet is quite nice (as it is for tv on the hdd), but again it is far to slow to be useful, you have navigated off a show well before the image is fetched. Why can't these images be cached as many shows are repeated from week to week? It would be worth having the option of swapping out a full background image with a banner image fetched from thetvdb and put at the bottom of the screen where the show description is. If this was cached you are getting a very fast image at the base that may not be too distracting??
I'm wondering if after a while your cached images are just going to take up a huge chunk of hard drive space, although I do agree, it would be some nice bling. Heck, I'd even settle for caching prime-time only images as I don't really care for 99% of the stuff that isn't on between 7PM and 10PM :)
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Getting the images from the internet is quite nice (as it is for tv on the hdd), but again it is far to slow to be useful, you have navigated off a show well before the image is fetched. Why can't these images be cached as many shows are repeated from week to week?
It might not even be a matter of caching. It seems like there is a default speed for switching between images and all image switching is set to that rate. For instance if you drill down into a give show it takes say 5 seconds for a show related image to appear, but then the next image for the show cycles in at 5 seconds also. I can't imagine that the delay for the images is wholly due to the download time at any rate. Anyway, I'm rambling and guessing here.
What I really mean to say, is that I agree that it would be nice if the related artwork were switched to instantly or as quickly as is reasonably possible to do.
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I am finding it very difficult to understand what the scroller on the mouse is doing. At first it seemed to scroll down through the list of channels, but then it seemed to scroll sideways quite randomly. I was at 7pm, few scrolls later I am at 2am on a different channel. Is there a bug or some logic I can't see?
Getting the images from the internet is quite nice (as it is for tv on the hdd), but again it is far to slow to be useful, you have navigated off a show well before the image is fetched. Why can't these images be cached as many shows are repeated from week to week? It would be worth having the option of swapping out a full background image with a banner image fetched from thetvdb and put at the bottom of the screen where the show description is. If this was cached you are getting a very fast image at the base that may not be too distracting??
The mouse seems to scroll to the bottom thru the channels, then without pause, to the right thru the times. I had the same experience. I'd like to see the scroll wheel only scroll vertically (channels) and some other method (click scroll wheel right/left??) to to thru the times.
As for caching the images that are repeated, or the prime time only images: how about only caching the shows I have set to record (when set to record), then find the rest if I bring them into the library outside of the recording mechanism?
That assures me I'll get images for at least what I record instantly.
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I didn't have much time to play with 17 last night due to the fact that I had recordings coming up on tuners and didn't want to miss things being taped, but I had a couple issues with the guide. The grid view looked great but it didn't display all of my channels. When I would scroll down when I got to the bottom it wouldn't continue scrolling. I also got a lot of text stacking artifacts on the top line of the guide. I couldn't tell what it was because it was so jumbled, so I don't know if it was guide listings, or error messages or other stuff. I will try to play with 17 on my test rig today.
I am having the same issues. Not all channels listed and missing the time on the grid.
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Channel logos (images) next to the channel numbers and names on the left side of the guide would also be nice.
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Grid view look great, I have grabbed the latest MC17.0.31 version which doesn't seem to have it. Is there a later versionavailable with the grid in it so I can have a play?
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Grid view look great, I have grabbed the latest MC17.0.31 version which doesn't seem to have it. Is there a later versionavailable with the grid in it so I can have a play?
It should be there in Theater View > Video > Guide > Guide (far left roller item).
You can reset Theater View views in Options > Theater View if necessary.
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Can we expect colour coding of programs in the Television Guide grid according to Genre (Documentary, Movie etc) any time soon?
Paul.
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Installed 17 on my test-rig and it does scroll down through channels. Still have the junk in the top line though. Here's a screenshot.
I also never noticed the transparency of Theater View in 16, but maybe it was there and I just noticed it now in 17. Will look more into it...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14569758/JRiver/SS_10-21-11.png)
I'm getting the same "junk" at the top line of the guide. I have the most recent build (17.0.115). Any suggestions how to fix this? Thanks
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Try a different skin. Try updating your video driver.
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I'm getting the same "junk" at the top line of the guide. I have the most recent build (17.0.115). Any suggestions how to fix this? Thanks
This has happened to me when I remove channels from my line up. It appears that the listings for the removed channels are still preserved, but MC doesn't show the removed channels, so the listings has no place to go and ends up at the top. I have not found a way to remove it, but since most listing no more than two weeks, it should clear up in a couple weeks.
Basically, when I have seen this it is related to guide data that has no place to be displayed because the channel it is associated with is not being shown in theater view. You can modify the data shown in theater view to remove this info, but I have not found a good way to determine which channel to filter.
Alex
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I'm getting the same "junk" at the top line of the guide. I have the most recent build (17.0.115). Any suggestions how to fix this? Thanks
I had the same "junk" and reported it a few weeks ago in the beta forum. The issue just went away for me and I'm not sure why. The most recent beta builds may have fixed the issue so you may need to wait until the next public release.
I also recently deleted my channels, scanned for QAM (I have no QAM), and then rescanned for OTA antenna. I wasn't trying to fix the issue when I did this so I didn't check my lineup to see if it fixed the issue. I don't watch live TV and just recently started to record a show.
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I've tried every available skin. And my video card and drivers are all brand new (this week).
I'll try waiting to see if it clears on its own in the next couple of weeks, since that seems to have worked for mojave and eapool.
Thanks.
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Hi, I love this Grid view & use it all the time.
Is there any indication of when we may see a "record" indicator on the programs (in the Grid) so I can visually see what I have selected to be recorded?
I only have a single tuner in my PC but MC allowed me to select programs on multiple channels for the same time to record (which I believe it should have warned me about) and doesn't give me any indication of what I currently have selected.
Also, would it be possible to add the "Date" (or Day) to the time display (or above it) so that when scrolling through the guide for the current (or next week) I can see what Day of the Week I am looking at.
Thanks
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Hi, I love this Grid view & use it all the time.
Is there any indication of when we may see a "record" indicator on the programs (in the Grid) so I can visually see what I have selected to be recorded?
I only have a single tuner in my PC but MC allowed me to select programs on multiple channels for the same time to record (which I believe it should have warned me about) and doesn't give me any indication of what I currently have selected.
Also, would it be possible to add the "Date" (or Day) to the time display (or above it) so that when scrolling through the guide for the current (or next week) I can see what Day of the Week I am looking at.
Thanks
+1
The current time of day shown in lower right corner would work nicely on my screen.