INTERACT FORUM
Devices => Video Cards, Monitors, Televisions, and Projectors => Topic started by: 6233638 on April 29, 2013, 07:54:59 am
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About a week ago, I said that I would write up a guide detailing the options available in madVR. Well I had a couple of hours open up this morning, so here's a first draft.
What is madVR?
madVR is an advanced video renderer written by Mathias Rauen, which leverages the power of your graphics card (hereby referred to as “GPU”) for advanced video scaling and processing.
Just some of the advanced features that madVR offers include: high precision YUV>RGB conversion, inverse-telecine with decimation to extract 24p from a 29fps source; frame blending to play back video smoothly regardless of the source framerate and your refresh rate; colorspace transformations and 3DLUT calibration.
How do I use madVR?
In JRiver Media Center, madVR is activated by changing the video mode from Red October Standard to Red October HQ.
Tools → Options → Video → General Video Settings → Video Mode: Red October HQ
The next time you play a video, Media Center will download the required files for the plugin to work.
[Important Note by JRiver -- Nothing further is required in order to enjoy the benefits of madVR. The following instructions should be considered for expert level users only.]
Configuring madVR
madVR has a lot of options, which can be confusing for new users.
It can also be quite demanding of your hardware in its default configuration. Unlike most HTPC tasks, madVR uses your GPU to handle its advanced scaling and image processing, and that is often a component that people do not consider when building a HTPC.
To access the madVR configuration, you need to start playing a video (I would then recommend pausing it) right-click anywhere on the screen, and go to:
DirectShow Filters → madVR
The first section to configure is Devices.
(http://www.abload.de/img/01-devices-display5lurz.png)
There may be a few devices already listed here even if you have not used madVR before, as the build Media Center downloads has some pre-configured. You can simply right-click and delete them—but leave the entry for your display.
You can select what type of device is connected in this tab, but it doesnʼt affect anything other than the icon displayed.
Below that is the Identification section, but there is nothing to configure there—it just gives you some additional information based on your displayʼs EDID data.
Next is the Properties Tab.
(http://www.abload.de/img/02-propertiesa4ux8.png)
This allows you to set the levels madVR will output to Windows, and the level of dithering used.
Regardless of what your display accepts, whether it is 16–235 or 0–255, it should be left at 0–255 to avoid having the image appear “washed out”.
Typically if you need to send 16–235 to a display, you will use the video card output to set that, not the video renderer.
And unless you specifically know that your display is using less than 8-bit natively, you should leave that option at 8-bit. Reducing it increases the amount of dithering (noise) madVR will add to the image.
Calibration
(http://www.abload.de/img/03-calibrationoluk8.png)
madVR has a number of advanced calibration options, but I will not be going over them in detail in this guide—calibration could have a whole guide written about it alone.
Unless you are looking to use the more advanced calibration features of madVR, it is generally best to leave it configured as shown above.
With HD content these settings mean that color should look the same as other video renderers, but with SD video, it allows madVR to perform the colorspace transformations required for SMPTE-C and EBU/PAL content.
These colorspace transformations require a small amount of GPU power, so if your computer is really struggling to play back video smoothly in madVR, it will have to be disabled.
The yCMS and 3DLUT options are a lot more complicated to use, and are also more demanding of your GPU.
Display Modes
(http://www.abload.de/img/refresh-rates1oj0c.png)
madVR includes a display mode switcher for automatic resolution and refresh rate changing.
Most people will be using madVR to handle video scaling, so it will only be used to change refresh rates.
These are simply entered using comma separated values. Be sure that your display actually supports the resolutions you have selected. I would suggest that you try switching to them via your graphics cardʼs control panel first.
The treat 25p movies as 24p (requires Reclock) option is useful for those of us with PAL film-based content (typically DVDs) as it allows either ReClock or JRiverʼs VideoClock (the text needs updated) to play back PAL content at the original 24p speed, rather than being sped-up to 25fps.
All this option does is tell madVR to switch to the best display mode for 24p when you are playing back 25p content—how that is handled is up to the player. (which is fine if you are using ReClock/VideoClock)
madVRʼs display mode switcher is a bit more advanced than Media Centerʼs switcher right now, so I would recommend using it instead. With IVTC content (which I will detail later) it switches the display to 24p, whereas JRiverʼs switcher does not.
Updated 13/06/2013: There is an issue with Windows 8 where most video cards will switch to 23Hz and 59Hz when an application tries to set the refresh rate to 24Hz or 60Hz. madVR 0.86.3 fixes this problem. Media Center's switcher currently does not, and will switch to 23/59Hz rather than 24/60Hz as specified.
Color & Gamma
(http://www.abload.de/img/05-color-gammatcusb.png)
This section allows you to perform simple color & gamma adjustments to any video being rendered by madVR.
It is probably best that these are left alone for most users.
Decoding
(http://www.abload.de/img/06-decoding9auj1.png)
madVR has the option to handle video decoding itself. I recommend leaving that up to your player though. Media Center uses LAV Video for decoding.
In Media Center, under Tools → Options → Video there is an option to use hardware accelerated video decoding, which I recommend trying if you are having difficulty playing videos, or want to reduce power consumption during media playback.
Updated 13/06/2013: Media Center now uses LAV's DXVA2 Copy-Back decoding with Nvidia cards, so no further configuration is necessary when using hardware acceleration.
Deinterlacing
(http://www.abload.de/img/09-deinterlacing7que3.png)
The deinterlacing options in madVR are very specific to the types of content that you watch, so it is difficult to make recommendations.
In my case, I have a lot of interlaced PAL DVDs, which are often misidentified as being Video-Type content rather than Film-Type content, so forcing film mode works best for me.
Film mode will activate IVTC for interlaced video if madVR detects that it is natively 24/25p content, regardless of the source framerate. (e.g. 24p in a 29fps file)
You can always override the deinterlacing mode used either by adding deint=on/off/video/film/ivtc to the filename, or switch modes at any time by pressing Ctrl+Alt+Shift+T when a video is playing.
The one recommendation I will make, is to leave the only look at pixels in the frame center option enabled—I have have problems with cadence detection not working correctly when this is off.
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Scaling Algorithms
Image scaling is one of the main reasons to use madVR. It offers very high quality scaling options that rival or best anything I have seen.
Most video is stored using chroma subsampling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling#How_subsampling_works) in a 4:2:0 video format.
In simple terms, what this means is that the video is basically stored as a black-and-white “detail” image (luma) with a lower resolution “color” image (chroma) layered on top.
This works because the detail image helps to mask the low resolution of the color image that is being layered on top.
So the scaling options in madVR are broken down into three different categories:
Chroma Upscaling, which is the color layer.
Image Upscaling, which is the detail (luma) layer.
Image downscaling, which only applies when the image is being displayed at a lower resolution than the source—1080p content on a 720p display, or in a window on a 1080p display for example.
Chroma upscaling is performed on all videos—it takes the quarter resolution chroma image, and upscales it to the native luma resolution of the video. If there is any further scaling to be performed; whether that is upscaling or downscaling, then the image upscaling/downscaling algorithm is applied to both chroma and luma.
(http://www.abload.de/img/10-image-scaling2dulw.png)
There are a number of different scaling algorithms available in madVR, and what you choose depends on both the performance of the video card in your system, and personal preference.
Image scaling is a balancing act (mostly) between three variables:Sharpness is an obvious one—it's how sharp the image appears.
Aliasing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliasing) is often seen as jagged edges on diagonal lines/curves rather than smooth edges, or as moiré patterns if you are downscaling.
Ringing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_artifacts) often shows as “halo” artefacts or darkened edges around bright objects, which can sometimes give the appearance of additional sharpness.
madVR gives you a rough guide when selecting algorithms, but may be misleading in some cases.
In terms of scaling performance (rendering speed, not image quality) the algorithms in madVR are roughly tiered as:
High Performance:Medium Performance:- Mitchell-Netravali
- Catmull-Rom
- Bicubic
- SoftCubic
Low Performance:Depending on your graphics card, the DXVA2 option may either be a high performance option, or a medium performance one.
There is also an anti-ringing filter, and a linear light option, both of which increase GPU demands when enabled. (though I do not recommend the linear light option in most cases)
Initially, your goal should be smooth video playback rather than the best image quality, so I would recommend setting all scaling algorithms to Bilinear.
I will write up a post later that will go into detail about the differences between scaling algorithms, and which ones I recommend based on their performance and image quality.
As a rough guide, this image (http://i.imgur.com/HLv1qmj.png) was based on settings I recommended after some discussion over at the Doom9 madVR topic (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=146228).
Rendering
This section deals with what are mostly performance-related settings, and options that may be required to get the best performance out of your specific graphics card.
Unless you are actually experiencing performance issues, most of these settings are best left alone.
General Settings
(http://www.abload.de/img/11-general-settingsmwuor.png)
I have never used madVR on XP, so I couldn't tell you what the use managed upload textures setting does.
The delay playback start until render queue is full options will pause the video playback until a number of frames have been rendered in advance of playback. This potentially avoids some stuttering right at the start of video playback, or after seeking through a video—but it will add a slight delay to both. It is disabled by default, but I prefer to have it enabled.
If you are having problems where a video fails to start playing, this is the first option I would disable when troubleshooting.
Enable windowed overlay changes the way that windowed mode is rendered, and will generally give you better performance. The downside to windowed overlay is that you cannot take screenshots of it with the “Print Screen” key on your keyboard, and any transparent aspects of Media Center's UI which overlays the video might look a bit strange. Other than that, it's mostly a “free” performance increase for people running Windows 7/8. It does not work with AMD graphics cards. (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=76904.msg523475#msg523475)
Enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode allows madVR to use “fullscreen exclusive mode” for video rendering. This can potentially give you some big performance improvements, and allows for several frames to be sent to the video card in advance, which can help eliminate random stuttering during playback. It will also prevent things like notifications from other applications being displayed on the screen at the same time, and similar to the Windowed Overlay mode, it stops “Print Screen” from working.
The main downside to Fullscreen Exclusive mode is that when switching in/out of FSE mode, the screen will flash black for a second. (similar to changing refresh rates)
Media Center's mouse-based interface is rendered in such a way that it would not be visible in FSE mode, so madVR gets kicked out of FSE mode any time you use it, and you get that black flash on the screen. I personally find this distracting, and as such, have disabled FSE mode, because I don't need the additional performance for smooth playback on my computer. (I have an Nvidia GTX 570) The "10ft interface" is unaffected, and renders correctly inside FSE mode.
Disable desktop composition This option will disable Aero during video playback. Back in the early days of madVR this may have been necessary on some systems, but I don't recommend enabling this option now. Typically the main thing that happens is that it breaks v-sync and you get screen tearing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_tearing). (horizontal lines over the video)
Use a separate device for presentation. By default this option is now disabled, but I see a big increase in performance when it is enabled using Nvidia graphics cards. You will have to experiment with this one.
Use a separate device for DXVA processing similar to the option above, this may or may not improve performance.
CPU/GPU Queue Size This sets the size of the decoder queue (CPU) and upload/render queues. (GPU)
Unless you are experiencing problems, I would leave it at the default settings of 12/8. The higher these queue sizes are, the more memory madVR requires. With larger queues you could potentially have smoother playback on some systems, but increased queue sizes also mean increased delays when seeking if the delay playback… options are enabled. Depending on your system, if you are having trouble getting smooth playback with madVR, sometimes turning the queue sizes all the way up or all the way down seems to help. It really depends on the machine.
Updated 13/06/2013: As of madVR 0.86.2, the decoder queue can now be increased to a maximum of 128 frames. In my experience, this increases the amount of RAM madVR uses to around 800MB with 1080p video. It may also greatly slow down seeking or switching between full-screen/windowed modes when delay playback… is enabled. If you have the memory to spare, and your system is capable of filling the queues, it may result in smoother video playback. (far less chance of dropped frames occurring) In general, the decoder queue should only be set as high as your system can actually fill. There's no point in setting it to 128 frames if your system can only fill 30/128.
Windowed Mode
(http://www.abload.de/img/12-windowed-modeiouol.png)
As the name suggests, these settings apply to madVR running in Windowed Mode. That means they apply when madVR is running in a Window, or when Fullscreen Exclusive mode is disabled.
Increasing the number of backbuffers could potentially result in smoother playback at the cost of increased memory usage. As always, I recommend leaving these settings at the defaults.
However, if you plan on using Smooth Motion, I would recommend setting them to the maximum of 8.
The flush settings could potentially be used to get more performance out of a struggling system, but these days they are largely unnecessary and best left alone.
Exclusive Mode Settings
(http://www.abload.de/img/13-exclusive-mode-setq9u7e.png)
Show seek bar has no effect if you are using Media Center—it draws a seek bar which can be used in FSE mode without kicking you back to Windowed Mode—but Media Center disables this and uses its own UI anyway.
Delay switch to exclusive mode by 3 seconds. If your media player switches into fullscreen mode, and FSE is enabled, it will always switch instantly.
This option is for when something such as Media Center's mouse-controlled UI breaks FSE mode and kicks it into Windowed Mode. If the option is enabled, it will wait 3 seconds returning to FSE mode, rather than switching instantly.
This can be useful if you are going to make a couple of changes, such as switching subtitle track, and adjusting its size and position, without it going in/out of FSE mode each time you bring up the menus.
Present several frames in advance should always be enabled. Disabling this puts madVR into the legacy FSE mode, which has not been supported for years at this point.
Similar to the Windowed Mode option, I would recommend leaving madVR presenting 4 frames in advance, as is the default, unless you are going to be using Smooth Motion, in which case you should set it to the maximum. You may need to increase the CPU/GPU queues accordingly to fill the buffer.
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Smooth Motion
(http://www.abload.de/img/14-smooth-motionceutc.png)
Smooth Motion is a recently introduced frame blending system for madVR. What Smooth Motion is not, is a frame interpolation system—it will not introduce the “soap opera effect” like you see on 120Hz+ TVs, or reduce 24p judder.
Smooth Motion is designed to display content where the source framerate does not match up to any of the refresh rates that your display supports.
For example, that would be 25/50fps content on a 60Hz-only display, or 24p content on a 60Hz-only display.
It does not replace ReClock or VideoClock, and if your display supports 1080p24, 1080p50, and 1080p60 then you should not need to use Smooth Motion at all.
Because Smooth Motion works by using frame blending you may see slight ghost images at the edge of moving objects—but this seems to be rare and dependent on the display you are using, and is definitely preferable to the usual judder from mismatched framerates/refresh rates.
There are some cases where, even if your display does support 1080p24/50/60, you will want to use Smooth Motion though. If you have a Plasma that displays 24p at 48Hz for example, you might want to display it at 60Hz using Smooth Motion instead to reduce flicker.
Or if you have madVR's display mode switcher set up to only switch refresh rate when the player goes fullscreen, you may want to leave it enabled when you have a 24p video playing in a window while using the computer for something else at the same time with the display at 60Hz.
Updated 13/06/2013: As of madVR 0.86.3, Smooth Motion is now working as I would have hoped on my system, so when set to only when there would be motion judder without it…, it is no longer enabled when the display mode switcher is used in conjunction with VideoClock.
So 23/24/25fps video played at 24Hz will not activate Smooth Motion, but 23/24/25fps video at 60Hz will. This means that videos displayed full-screen do not use Smooth Motion, but when I play videos in a window on the desktop at 60Hz, Smooth Motion is activated.
If your system can handle it, I now recommend enabling Smooth Motion, and leaving it at this setting. This also requires that you increase the Windowed/Full-screen Exclusive buffers to the largest that your system can handle.
Trade Quality for Performance
(http://www.abload.de/img/15-quality-performanc1iuo5.png)
As the name suggests, these options exist to reduce image quality to improve performance.
Many of these options will only have a very small impact on image quality.
Generally, if you are having performance troubles, working your way down the list, enabling them one at a time until playback is smooth, is the best way to approach them.
User Interface
This section allows you to view and change the keyboard shortcuts for madVR.
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Awesome! Great write up!
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This is an amazing write up, and explains a lot of things I've been wondering about for a long time. Thank you for all your effort!
I do have one question: in your hierarchy of scaling algorithms where you lay out "GPU performance requirements", you list Jinc as requiring a low performance graphics card and nearest neighbor as requiring a high performance graphic card. Isn't that backwards? At least it seems backwards based on my system experience.
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I do have one question: in your hierarchy of scaling algorithms where you lay out "GPU performance requirements", you list Jinc as requiring a low performance graphics card and nearest neighbor as requiring a high performance graphic card. Isn't that backwards? At least it seems backwards based on my system experience.
I've reworded that section to hopefully make it clearer, thanks. What I meant was that those algorithms offer high performance (i.e. they are the least demanding algorithms) rather than them requiring a high power GPU.
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6233638,
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I've added a note to your instructions to indicate that setup is automatic for typical usage. That's the job of Red October (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Red_October).
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I've reworded that section to hopefully make it clearer, thanks. What I meant was that those algorithms offer high performance (i.e. they are the least demanding algorithms) rather than them requiring a high power GPU.
Got it, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't terminally confused; I ordinarily see high performance and think "best quality," but you meant high performance in the sense that the algorithm was the fastest executing.
Thanks again for the awesome write up!
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Awesome writeup 62, thanks!
Maybe someone can put this up on the wiki or at least have a wiki page point to this thread.
I like that table that Jmone has been posting with suggested settings for different quality levels. Maybe you can borrow that and include it in your guide or make something similar with your own suggestions?
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6233638,
Thanks for taking the time to do this. I've added a note to your instructions to indicate that setup is automatic for typical usage. That's the job of Red October (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Red_October).
No problem - I was intending it to be a reference for advanced users, or to help when people are trying to troubleshoot problems with madVR rather than suggesting that it's required.
A few people have posted recently about madVR not working well on their system, and the settings being too complex, so I thought it might help.
I like that table that Jmone has been posting with suggested settings for different quality levels. Maybe you can borrow that and include it in your guide or make something similar with your own suggestions?
I think that's probably this image:
(http://i.imgur.com/HLv1qmj.png)
Or one based off the same/similar information. I actually did link to it in my post, but perhaps I should have just embedded it - at least until I get the time to go into detail about why those are being recommended, and what alternatives there are that have similar same performance requirements.
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I've added a note to your instructions to indicate that setup is automatic for typical usage. That's the job of Red October (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Red_October).
To be honest, madVR is not something that you can just install and it then "just works".
The defaults may be acceptable for some, but with just 5 minutes extra doing some settings (with a small guide at hand), you can get so much more out of it.
Granted, madVR would be much easier to configure if the config could be invoked from a button in the MC config screen, sadly madVR doesn't allow this yet.
If JRiver wanted to go all out, you could even make a small wizard that set all this up, not only madVR but also the other audio/video related settings, it would really make it a lot easier for beginners to get the best out of their system.
PS:
Some of the RO settings could probably also need a slight tweak after the experiences of the last year have been evaluated and further progress in the involved components is taken into account.
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...manually configure LAV Video to use DXVA2 Copy-back.
This can be done by going to Tools → Options → Video → Video Mode: Advanced - Custom and configuring it like so:
I tried this before but never got around asking this: I don't have LAV as a filter in the list, all I see is MS DTV-DVD and WMVIdeo decoder. How do I get LAV to show in that list?
Thanks.
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If JRiver wanted to go all out, you could even make a small wizard that set all this up, not only madVR but also the other audio/video related settings, it would really make it a lot easier for beginners to get the best out of their system.
Yes. I love the idea.
Some of the RO settings could probably also need a slight tweak after the experiences of the last year have been evaluated and further progress in the involved components is taken into account.
Please start a thread and give us some advice. Thank you.
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I tried this before but never got around asking this: I don't have LAV as a filter in the list, all I see is MS DTV-DVD and WMVIdeo decoder. How do I get LAV to show in that list?
Ah, it may be that while Media Center is using LAV Filters, it's not actually registering them as DirectShow filters for other applications to use.
You may have to install LAV Filters separately for it to work: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1425963&postcount=1 (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1425963&postcount=1)
I suppose just registering the ones in the JRiver Plugins directory might work too - but this seems “safer”.
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Note that you need to keep your stand-alone LAV version synced with the version in JRiver, or because of the way DLLs are loaded, it may conflict and exhibit rather random behavior.
If all you want is an adjustable config, registering the JRiver ones may be the safest, no need to handle manual upgrades that way.
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First, thanks for taking the time to write this guide.
I'm a little worried the Custom Video mode / LAV advice is pushing users down a complex road. The point of Red October is to remove that complexity when possible.
If the only reason for this is that you feel DXVA2 copy-back should be enabled, it might be better to start a thread and suggest that Red October do this by default.
The same with the resolution switching. If there's a simple change needed in the MC display switching, just start a thread and describe it.
Thanks.
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If all you want is an adjustable config, registering the JRiver ones may be the safest, no need to handle manual upgrades that way.
What is the proper way to manually register the ones that come with JRiver? Is it just the .ax files I need to register like:
regsvr32.exe "C:\Users\Entertainer\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins\lav\LAVVideo.ax"
regsvr32.exe "C:\Users\Entertainer\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins\lav\LAVSplitter.ax"
regsvr32.exe "C:\Users\Entertainer\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins\lav\LAVAudio.ax"
Or is there more involved?
Thanks for the help!
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That should be all.
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I'm a little worried the Custom Video mode / LAV advice is pushing users down a complex road. The point of Red October is to remove that complexity when possible.
If the only reason for this is that you feel DXVA2 copy-back should be enabled, it might be better to start a thread and suggest that Red October do this by default.
I agree that it makes things more complicated than it should be. I'll start a new topic.
The same with the resolution switching. If there's a simple change needed in the MC display switching, just start a thread and describe it.
I have a topic that discusses two issues with Media Center's Display Switcher: http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80014.msg544204 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80014.msg544204)
The first - not switching to the correct refresh rate with IVTC content (i.e. when madVR's deinterlacing is in film mode) is the reason why I suggest using madVR's switcher rather than Media Center's.
The second issue - the display switcher changing the display to 23/59Hz rather than 24/60Hz affects both madVR and Media Center's switcher on Windows 8.
For some reason whatever Media Center does when set to desktop settings does allow it to restore to 24/60Hz correctly though.
What is the proper way to manually register the ones that come with JRiver? Is it just the .ax files I need to register like
It may be best to hold off and see if the JRiver team decide to make a change, rather than set up a custom mode for it.
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Hello, thanks for the guide 6233638!
Any idea if MadVR will perform colorspace transformations on SD content when using the "calibrate this display by using yCMS" option? (or is it exclusive to "this display is already calibrated"?)
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Hello, thanks for the guide 6233638!
Any idea if MadVR will perform colorspace transformations on SD content when using the "calibrate this display by using yCMS" option? (or is it exclusive to "this display is already calibrated"?)
I think yCMS assumes you are calibrated to a BT.709 target, so the colorspace transformations should still work.
Hit Ctrl+Alt+Shift+P to see if they do. (you will receive an error message if they don't)
More than just SD content, an example of where this is useful in my experience is newer releases of Office Space.
That film appears to be using SMPTE-C primaries encoded as BT.709 (at least my disc is) so everyone looks red in the face until you correct it with that shortcut. (or append primaries=smptec to the filename)
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Regardless of what your display accepts, whether it is 16–235 or 0–255, it should be left at 0–255 to avoid having the image appear “washed out”.
Typically if you need to send 16–235 to a display, you will use the video card output to set that, not the video renderer.
I think nevcairiel suggested preferably setting madVR to output 16-235 (when your display only support 16-235) in this thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77540.msg527128#msg527128 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77540.msg527128#msg527128) and "For NVIDIA always set stuff to "Use video player settings", and madVR should output stuff untouched".
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I think nevcairiel suggested preferably setting madVR to output 16-235 (when your display only support 16-235) in this thread http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77540.msg527128#msg527128 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=77540.msg527128#msg527128) and "For NVIDIA always set stuff to "Use video player settings", and madVR should output stuff untouched".
Nevcariel's advice is good, in that it avoids double expansion/compression.
And if you want the absolute best image quality for video alone, having the graphics card output 0-255 and madVR output 16-235, when the display only supports 16-235, should in theory produce better results.
But if you do that, everything on the computer outside of madVR is going to have severe highlight and shadow clipping, as it's being rendered to 0-255 and the display is only showing 16-235 from that.
If you have madVR output 0-255 so that it matches the desktop (the desktop and other applications are always 0-255) and then have the video card compress the 0-255 output to 16-235, you avoid that shadow/highlight clipping - but you are potentially introducing posterization/banding from the levels compression. (255 steps compressed to 219)
Neither solution is ideal - ideally, you would have a display that properly displays an 0-255 input.
But in my opinion, having madVR output 0-255 and letting the video card compress the levels is the better compromise in most cases - I think it's rare that people going to use their system exclusively for video playback.
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I am currently looking at getting a new av reciever so I have been thinking about how all the audio and video is decoded, processed and sent down the wires from the pc to the reciever and on to the tv. So my question is what processes are happening at each stage in each device. Eg is video only rendered in the pc using madVR, or can the reciever do it? If anyone has a good reference text on the process blocks and how digital content is converted and finally presented to my eyes and ears, for the lay enthusiast, I would find that very useful.
Thank you
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The main downside to Fullscreen Exclusive mode is that when switching in/out of FSE mode, the screen will flash black for a second. (similar to changing refresh rates) Most of Media Center's OSD is rendered in such a way that it would not be visible in FSE mode, so madVR gets kicked out of FSE mode any time you use MC's interface and you get that black flash on the screen. I personally find this distracting, and as such, have disabled FSE mode, because I don't need the additional performance for smooth playback on my computer. (I have an Nvidia GTX 570)
Delay switch to exclusive mode by 3 seconds. If your media player switches into fullscreen mode, and FSE is enabled, it will always switch instantly.
This option is for when something such as Media Center's UI breaks FSE mode and kicks it into Windowed Mode. If the option is enabled, it will wait 3 seconds before going back into FSE mode, rather than switching instantly.
This can be useful if you are going to make a couple of changes, such as switching subtitle track, and adjusting its size and position, without it going in/out of FSE mode each time you bring up the menus.
Thanks for writing up the guide. It clarified several things I had wondered about.
JRiver has two OSD's: a 10' interface that works in FSE and one that is primarily used when sitting in front of a monitor. The one that works in FSE is activated by a down or up arrow and provides access to titles, chapters, subtitles, size, position, and other settings. The windowed mode OSD you bring up by right clicking contains a few more options for aspect ratio and cropping. I use FSE on two computers and have found the FSE compatible OSD to be suitable 99% of the time. Your statements sound like you can't use an OSD at all with JRiver in FSE without being kicked out of FSE and into Windowed Mode and that isn't true.
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JRiver has two OSD's: a 10' interface that works in FSE and one that is primarily used when sitting in front of a monitor. The one that works in FSE is activated by a down or up arrow and provides access to titles, chapters, subtitles, size, position, and other settings. The windowed mode OSD you bring up by right clicking contains a few more options for aspect ratio and cropping. I use FSE on two computers and have found the FSE compatible OSD to be suitable 99% of the time. Your statements sound like you can't use an OSD at all with JRiver in FSE without being kicked out of FSE and into Windowed Mode and that isn't true.
I was just about to write this too.
Thanks, 6233638, for the very useful write-up!
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JRiver has two OSD's: a 10' interface that works in FSE and one that is primarily used when sitting in front of a monitor. The one that works in FSE is activated by a down or up arrow and provides access to titles, chapters, subtitles, size, position, and other settings. The windowed mode OSD you bring up by right clicking contains a few more options for aspect ratio and cropping. I use FSE on two computers and have found the FSE compatible OSD to be suitable 99% of the time. Your statements sound like you can't use an OSD at all with JRiver in FSE without being kicked out of FSE and into Windowed Mode and that isn't true.
Oh, that's true - I was really referring to the mouse-based interface, which is the right-click menu and the playback controls you get when you hover over the top of the video.
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This thread should be a "Sticky".
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To be honest, madVR is not something that you can just install and it then "just works".
Having just spent several hours troubleshooting a display problem I agree
The defaults may be acceptable for some, but with just 5 minutes extra doing some settings (with a small guide at hand), you can get so much more out of it.
yes, huge thanks to 6233638
Granted, madVR would be much easier to configure if the config could be invoked from a button in the MC config screen, sadly madVR doesn't allow this yet.
I agree, it is non intuitive to only access the controls only while the video is playing. The madvr symbol in the notification area can be useful at times.
If JRiver wanted to go all out, you could even make a small wizard that set all this up, not only madVR but also the other audio/video related settings, it would really make it a lot easier for beginners to get the best out of their system.
fantastic,yes please
I'm a little worried the Custom Video mode / LAV advice is pushing users down a complex road.
I just spent several hours trying to figure out how to use the custom settings in an effort to solve my video display problem. The "simple" options didnt solve the problem. If a wizard is created it can, and perhaps should, have an "advanced button" for these types of things. Whatever the case advanced "custom" settings there should be more guidance than just "create rules" IMHO.I get that this area is not for idiots like me,but as idiots do, we venture there anyway ;D
Anyway thanks to all especially 6233638 for this guide and other contributors.
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WOW! This thread is fantastic. Thank you!! ;D
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Regardless of what your display accepts, whether it is 16–235 or 0–255, it should be left at 0–255 to avoid having the image appear “washed out”.
Typically if you need to send 16–235 to a display, you will use the video card output to set that, not the video renderer.
Madshi posted at AVS that he recommends 0-255 always set with the GPU. This is in a thread on creating 3dlut so maybe I'm taking it out of context.
For madVR I strongly recommend to set the GPU to 0-255 output. If the display is configured for 0-255, then madVR itself should be set to 0-255 output, too. If the display is configured for 16-235, then madVR itself should be set to 16-235 output. If the display is configured for 0-255, then dispcal, colprof and HCFR need to create a black test pattern with RGB 0,0,0. If the display is configured for 16-235 then dispcal, colprof and HCFR need to create a black test pattern with RGB 16,16,16. All of what I just wrote only applies if the GPU driver is set to 0-255 (which is what is recommended for madVR). If the GPU driver is set to 16-235, things get even more complicated. But let's not go there because that's not recommended, anyway.
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Madshi posted at AVS that he recommends 0-255 always set with the GPU. This is in a thread on creating 3dlut so maybe I'm taking it out of context.
Madshi's recommendations apply when you only care how madVR looks.
If your display does not support 0-255, outputting 0-255 from the graphics card and having madVR output 16-235 is the best as far as image quality is concerned, because the video card isn't touching madVR's output. But the desktop will be unusable.
It your display does not support 0-255, and you output 16-235 from the graphics card, madVR's output is being compressed from 0-255 to 16-235 by the graphics card which may introduce banding. But now everything on the computer is usable on that display, rather than just madVR.
Unless your display supports an 0-255 signal, you have to compromise.
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Many thanks for your work on this guide. I found it very helpful indeed.
Not to labour a point but it ought to be Wikified (not saying it's your job!).
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When I use the madVR "dispaly switching" function, my display does not return to the desired desktop resolution after the movie/show is stopped. My Desktop resoultion is set (same as TV)to 1080x1920 60Hz. If I watch a TV Show with a 720p (or 640, or whatever) resolution, after I'm done watching and return to the Theater View menu, the resoultion will stay at 720 or 640. If then start a HD movie (1080) and stop it, my Theater View resoultion will stay at 1080 (the last viewed thing). If I clear all the display resolutions in madVR, my desktop will switch resoltions in MC and return back to the desired resolution (1080p) when done. My MC settigns are set to "Allow automatic changing of resoultion" and to default to "Desktop" resoultion.
Is there any good reason (better picture quality, etc.) to use madVR (find the cause of this problem), or should I just stay with MC doing all the switching?
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When I use the madVR "dispaly switching" function, my display does not return to the desired desktop resolution after the movie/show is stopped. My Desktop resoultion is set (same as TV)to 1080x1920 60Hz. If I watch a TV Show with a 720p (or 640, or whatever) resolution, after I'm done watching and return to the Theater View menu, the resoultion will stay at 720 or 640. If then start a HD movie (1080) and stop it, my Theater View resoultion will stay at 1080 (the last viewed thing). If I clear all the display resolutions in madVR, my desktop will switch resoltions in MC and return back to the desired resolution (1080p) when done. My MC settigns are set to "Allow automatic changing of resoultion" and to default to "Desktop" resoultion.
This is a bug that was fixed in v0.86.3 - Media Center is a little behind, and currently (18.0.206) ships with v0.86.2
You can update to the latest version manually, which will fix it:
- Download the latest version of madVR (http://madshi.net/madVR.zip)
- Navigate to %APPDATA%\J River\Media Center 18\Plugins\madvr (you can hit Win + R and paste it in to go there directly)
- Extract madVR.zip into this folder, overwriting the contents. You may need to close Media Center and Media Server first.
Unless you need the Wait after change (use if display changes slowly) option in Media Center's display mode switcher, I now recommend disabling it and letting madVR handle all display mode switching.
P.S. If you are using madVR to change the resolution of your display to match the video, then madVR is only handling chroma upscaling, and your display (or video processor) is doing most of the video scaling work.
To get the most out of madVR, I would recommend only entering your display's native resolution (which sounds like 1080p in your case) but with multiple refresh rates - assuming it supports at least 1080p24 and 1080p60.
While madVR offers a lot of features now, one of the main features is its high quality video scaling which, at the higher quality settings, is better than most displays in my experience.
I don't know what your hardware is though, so it may be too demanding to have madVR handling the scaling and this is why you allow it to switch resolutions.
Is there any good reason (better picture quality, etc.) to use madVR (find the cause of this problem), or should I just stay with MC doing all the switching?
The featureset is different, it won't affect quality. There are a few reasons to use the madVR switcher rather than the Media Center one.
1. madVR's switcher allows you to configure it on a per-display basis rather than being a global setting, which can be useful if you have multiple displays connected to your computer and they don't all support the same resolutions and refresh rates.
2. madVR's switcher knows when IVTC has been activated. IVTC is (generally) the process of extracting 23.976fps video from a 59.94Hz interlaced source. So with DVDs, madVR can output true 24p video, whereas Media Center (may?) output 60Hz instead.
Similarly, madVR can output 24Hz with PAL film-type content (50Hz interlaced decoded to 25p) rather than 50Hz. (50Hz video decoded to 50p)
3. madVR uses smart logic to determine the best refresh rate for a given video file. Videos are typically 23/24fps (Film) 25/50fps (PAL) 29/30/59/60fps. (NTSC)
When I ask Media Center to play a 27fps video for example, it switches to 60Hz. madVR plays the video at 50Hz, as that is the closest fit. (my display allows for 24/50/60Hz)
4. Windows 8 changed something with how refresh rate switching is handled, so now most applications are changing to 23/59Hz when they request to switch to 24/60Hz.
This is usually not a major issue, as most displays have enough flexibility to support both, but has proven to be for at least one user whose display only accepts 24Hz, which meant that Media Center was stuck outputting 60Hz instead.
Madshi has found a solution for this, so madVR's switcher does change to 24/60Hz correctly, rather than switching to 23/59Hz on Windows 8.
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MadVR Profile Groups
I started using Profile Groups to enable different scaling algorithms based on a condition. For example, my APU can do Jinc3 chroma upscaling for 1080p 24hz content, but it drops frames for 29.97hz interlaced. I have setup 2 groups: one for 1080i with Bicubic chroma upscaling and 1080p with Jinc upscaling and created a condition under the profile group: if (deintFps > 24) "1080i" else "1080p" which will select the appropriate chroma setting based on the source.
To create a group, select the scaling algorithms folder -> create profile group and choose what scaling you wish to create a group for (1 of each type is possible). Create each profile under the newly created group and name each accordingly. Use the name of each in the condition expression as shown above.
edit: getting ahead of myself. Requires MadVR v0.87.xx - call it a teaser ;)
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Hi, my name is Federico. I have configured madvr using your guide and everything works perfect, except for 29.97fps movies (NTSC).
I'm getting 5-7 dropped frames per second. The only way to have 0 dropped frames is setting smooth motion to always but i get a kind of image ghosting.
My main specs are:
*i5 3570k @ 4.2 Ghz
*HD 7870 @ 1100/1375
*8Gb DDR3 1600Mhz
It is not a resource problem because i tried lowering everything to bilinear and got the same dropped frames.
Additional info:
Display Modes: 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p60
Using Jinc 3 (AR), Jinc 3 (AR) and Catmull Rom (AR-LL)
Rest of settings are configured as in your guide.
Madvr version: 0.86.9
Using hardware acceleration and Videoclock.
Screenshots attached.
Thanks in advance.
Sorry if there are mistakes in the spelling, English is not my mother tongue.
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Are you bitstreaming audio? This will not let VideoClock work correctly.
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Thanks for your quick reply. I'm not using Bitstreaming. I will attach some screenshots.
1st Screenshot: Audio Tab (Using ASIO)
2nd Screenshot: Video Tab
3rd Screenshot: Audio Path in video reproduction (Tempo being changed by VideoClock)
I have GPU Scaling option enabled in AMD CCC, i do not know if this affects madvr in any way. I also have ITC processing checked.
4th Screenshot: GPU Scaling and ITC Processing
I will post 4th sreenshot in another post because it exceeds maximum allowed size.
Thanks in advance.
I really appreciate your help.
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4th Screenshot: GPU Scaling and ITC Processing.
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Unfortunately, I am not too familiar with using AMD cards for madVR.
All of your queues are full, so it is not a performance problem.
And there are no cadence breaks, so it does not seem to be a deinterlacing issue either.
But I notice that the video is 29.97fps, the output is 24Hz, and the cadence is 2:2.
When you have film content (24fps) inside a 29fps "container" the cadence should be detected as 3:2.
This suggests that you are watching video content in the wrong deinterlacing mode. (film mode)
I'm not sure what the default keyboard shortcut is to change the deinterlacing mode, but you should try setting it to video.
If you're playing a file rather than a disc, you could always rename it to include [deint=video] on the end instead.
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Hi, my name is Federico. I have configured madvr using your guide and everything works perfect, except for 29.97fps movies (NTSC).
I'm getting 5-7 dropped frames per second. The only way to have 0 dropped frames is setting smooth motion to always but i get a kind of image
Open Catalyst Control Center, Go to Video, then Quality, and turn off Pulldown detection.
Bring up madVR, turn off Smooth motion and untick "Automatically activate deinterlacing when needed":
(http://www.abload.de/img/09-deinterlacing7que3.png)
See if that helps. I was able to do 1080 29.97 content afterwards with no dropped frames. There might be some slight ghosting or odd issues with fast motion due to the frame rates not quite matching your display but it beats sure beats choppy playback due to dropped/skipped frames.
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Unfortunately, I am not too familiar with using AMD cards for madVR.
All of your queues are full, so it is not a performance problem.
And there are no cadence breaks, so it does not seem to be a deinterlacing issue either.
But I notice that the video is 29.97fps, the output is 24Hz, and the cadence is 2:2.
When you have film content (24fps) inside a 29fps "container" the cadence should be detected as 3:2.
This suggests that you are watching video content in the wrong deinterlacing mode. (film mode)
I'm not sure what the default keyboard shortcut is to change the deinterlacing mode, but you should try setting it to video.
If you're playing a file rather than a disc, you could always rename it to include [deint=video] on the end instead.
Thanks for your answer. Forcing video mode just results in worse video quality and 30 dropped frames per second. I'm sure it's a problem with cadence detection as you say. Is there any way to force cadence to 3:2 for example. (See edit)
Thanks again for your help.
Edit: After trying some things, i realized you were right. Both are movies but is video content. Forcing video mode while movie playing from madvr settings doesn't work. You have two options:
1º: Add [deint=video] to file name as you suggested.
2º: Set force video mode in madvr and stop the movie and play it again.
Now i have changed display modes to every progressive mode supported: 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p59 and 1080p60.
Everything works great!!!
Thank you very much for your help.
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Open Catalyst Control Center, Go to Video, then Quality, and turn off Pulldown detection.
Bring up madVR, turn off Smooth motion and untick "Automatically activate deinterlacing when needed":
See if that helps. I was able to do 1080 29.97 content afterwards with no dropped frames. There might be some slight ghosting or odd issues with fast motion due to the frame rates not quite matching your display but it beats sure beats choppy playback due to dropped/skipped frames.
Hi, and thanks for your help. Turning off pulldown detection has no impact in madvr. It detects same cadence. As for deactivating deinterlacing it works, but i have interlaced DVD's at 29.97 that look awful (Interlaced) without deinterlacing. When i deactivate deinterlacing the output movie is 29.97 fps and as my display support 1080p59 it changes to this mode and no problem. But the problem with this is that i can't see interlaced movies.
By now i have found a solution that works for every movie i throw at it. Maybe it would be useful for someone with the same problems as me.
Deinterlacing activated suggested in guide.
Smooth motion only in case there would be judder without it.
And i use fixed display mode. 1080p60.
It uses smooth motion in every movie because all movies are ntsc and 60hz is not a multiple of ntsc values. But looks good and give me almost no dropped frames in combination with videoclock.
Tested with dvd. 2 hours of movie just 2 dropped frames.
Thanks for your help.
Edit: Please read previous comment edited as i have found a better solution.
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Will this work with an Intel graphics chip? I have Intel HD 4600 in my system?
Joel
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Will this work with an Intel graphics chip? I have Intel HD 4600 in my system?
If by "this", you mean ROHQ and madVR, then yes it will work with an Intel brand graphics chip.
I did a quick Google search, which revealed:
the HD 4600 not only matches some dedicated GPUs such as the GeForce GT 620M/630M
so it should be just fine for madVR, especially with default ROHQ settings.
(Note that these days, madVR supports some features that are beyond even some 2013 chips.)
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so it should be just fine for madVR, especially with default ROHQ settings.
It depends what you play, default settings and a 1080i bd was unachievable for me. Some details on http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=printpage;topic=86538.0
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I have a fast i7 CPU .will that help?
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I have an i3 with HD3000 and I use ROHQ with the standard settings and have no issues. I don't know if I have ever tried a 1080i Bluray. 1080i OTA recordings are fine.
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I have a fast i7 CPU .will that help?
I don't think so but I wouldn't buy anything until you are proved you can't do what you want. Straight bd playback is fine for example and DVD is too at reasonable scaling settings.
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Can someone confirm the order of the Scaling algorithms:
Take the medium performance list as an example:
•Mitchell-Netravali
•Catmull-Rom
•Bicubic
•SoftCubic
So does MN produce better image than CR, which produces better image than Bicubic etc.
In other words, they're listed in order of image quality, or have I got that the wrong way round and they're in order of performance?
Thanks
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All of those algorithms should perform exactly the same.
As for image quality, it depends a lot on your personal preferences.
Mitchell-Netravali is a medium-to-low sharpness algorithm, which has very little ringing.
Catmull-Rom and Bicubic are sharper, but exhibit more ringing and aliasing. (jagged edges)
SoftCubic is very soft, but has low amounts of ringing and often "hides" compression artifacts in a bad quality source.
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Thanks!
One thing I have noticed with DVDs, is I get a lot of repeated frames. Queue lengths are full, dropped/delayed frames are 0, but repeated frames can climb to 1000+ in a matter of minutes.
The repeated frames line does not appear on Blu's.
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Hello, I'm planning to build an HTPC with JRiver+Madvr (maybe with xbmc), which would be the CPU+GPU needed for the highest quality?
I don't know if an AMD kaveri 7850k would be enough!?
Or I should base the htpc on a intel i7 + dedicated video card?
It would be used mainly as BD player, so movies at 1080p and I would like to apply the madvr's maximum quality available
Thanks a lot
EDIT: I'm sorry I've just figured out I posted in the guide my bad, sorry again
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I doubt it would be able to use the "highest quality" settings, as that is a moving target.
Recently there were some additions which really increase the GPU demands if you want to use them.
I'm not sure if anyone here has tried using the new AMD Kaveri APUs here.
I'm sure it would work well and give you very good image quality though, just not the maximum settings.
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I doubt it would be able to use the "highest quality" settings, as that is a moving target.
Recently there were some additions which really increase the GPU demands if you want to use them.
I'm not sure if anyone here has tried using the new AMD Kaveri APUs here.
I'm sure it would work well and give you very good image quality though, just not the maximum settings.
So what would you suggest?
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So what would you suggest?
I don't really know what hardware is a good choice or what your budget is. The new Nvidia GTX 750Ti is meant to be a very good low power option, but I don't know what settings it is capable of using.
It would probably be better to start a new topic asking for recommendations.
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I have a new HTPC with i4670k and Asus GTX 760 Direct CU II 2gb
MY AVR is Anthem MRX 710 with Paradigm Monitor 11 v7
My projector is Panasonic pt ae1000u
I like to watch movies that have a very large size mkv like 30-40 gb and also Bluray ISO.
What are the best quality for madVR?
Thank you...
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Now that the stable version of JRiver includes madvr 0.87, I wonder if anyone can give some insight as to where is it best to spend any latency budget for different types of content. For example I believe I have seen it said that using nnedi3 on chroma upscaling is minidsp benefit for a lot of (GPU) effort but I am unsure how to balance the other uses of nnedi3 for example.
My use case is a (the?) common one I think, 1080p display with bd and DVD sources.
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I asked a similar Q in the madVR doom9 forum:
.... Q though on any suggestions on settings to try for a native 1920x1080p display for maximising quality for:
1) 1920x1080 AVC/264 @ 23.976p/50i/50p/60i Material (have been very happy with Jinc3+AR) then a long second
2) SD 576 PAL Material
...
to which Hendrik (nevcairiel) replied
Native 1080p content doesn't benefit from any of the new settings really, short of the dithering improvements.
Just stick to what you know, and try the error diffusion dithering modes - or stick to ordered dithering.
SD could use NNEDI image doubling for sharper images, if your GPU is up for it.
Try with 32 neurons, or maybe even 64 if your GPU has the power for it.
though....a later quote
I use NNEDI3 chroma scaling for 1080p content on a 1080p screen, just because the GPU is idle otherwise, but if I need to scale the image itself, I would prefer higher neurons of Luma doubling any day.
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If you want to setup a bunch of profiles to switch settings based on content, you could also use NNEDI3 chroma upscaling for 1080p content, but once you use Luma Doubling for SD content, I would disable NNEDI3 chroma upscaling again to save the performance for luma doubling instead.
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;D I was just posting in your later quote!
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would you prioritise luma or chroma doubling?
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Always Luma. Chroma Doubling isn't of that much use for quality.
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OK thanks. Any views on the dithering options? The doom9 thread suggests prioritising debanding over dithering (I think) but I am not sure which content either option is applicable to
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Hi, with last jriver release .128, if i select Red October HQ, anytime i play a movie and move scrollbar PC shuts down, whatever MADVR filter is set
This doesen't happen with standard video render or in MPCHC with MADVR
I just upgraded from older jriver version with old MADVR (no NNEDI) and videocard from 7750 to R9 280X (to use NNEDI)
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If the PC shuts down, that's probably a video driver bug. The settings of madVR might make a difference. Are you using ROHQ without modification?
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Yes, just as downloaded...i will try to delete completely video drivers and reinstall, since i had drivers upgraded from a 7750
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With Mpchc there is no problem....is it possibile that driver conflicts only with jriver?
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It sounds like you have hardware acceleration enabled in Media Center but not MPC-HC.
Try disabling it and see if that helps.
If your system is crashing like this, it indicates a serious hardware or driver problem though.
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Thanks...
Actually i now have a temporary generic 550w PSU, since seller ordered me a quality grade modular 800W...on Sapphire sitemi now see they advice fr a 750w PSU for a 280X...could be this causing the issue?
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That seems likely.
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Hello, when have you any time to update the guide ? This is the best i found over the web. Thank you
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Hello, when have you any time to update the guide ? This is the best i found over the web. Thank you
I've had a few people request it now.
I'll try and see if I can get something done this weekend.
There's a lot to cover in the new update though, and a few things I'd like to revise.
I've requested access to the JRiver wiki, so I'll hopefully be able to update it there.
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Ok , tell us something when you have done;) Thank you very much
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I have some vob files not full bitrate. as a result the playback looks artifacty. can madvr deal with this sort of thing?
the system I have at the moment ( amd e350) can smooth it out to some extent using mpc hc + core avc but it is so so. this system is not powerful enough for madvr anyway.
I'm about to get my brothers clevo w110r (Intel® Core™ i7 3rd generation socket G2 mobile processor support
NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 650M GPU / Intel® GMA HD GPU
NVIDIA® Optimus technology support)
would this with madvr improve things? cheers
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Yes, madVR's debanding, and using a softer scaling algorithm should help improve how things look.
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Where did the guide go? Missing? :'(
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http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80253.0
It's in 6233638's signature.
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Yeah, this one :) But in the first 3 posts the img (and the text too) are missing.
Edit: Very strange. When i'm logged in, i dont'see the content of first 3 posts, otherwise yes
Edit 2: Solved. It's a username issue
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Could someone help with madVR's display mode switcher.
My display is max 1080i only (not p), so I've got this setup as:
720p50, 720p59, 720p60, 1080i29
and ticked the option to treat 25p as 24p as I'm in a PAL region.
Desktop resolution is 1366x768i59. This successfully switches to these resolutions based on the source. Do I need to cater for any more?
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I would recommend only using a single resolution in madVR - the native resolution of your display. (which I thought was 1024x768 in your case?)
Then I would suggest enabling only the refresh rates that it supports, and only progressive refresh rates - which would be 24, 50, or 60.
Skip anything else and let VideoClock handle any other differences in framerate. (e.g. playing 23.976 FPS content at 24Hz, or 59.94 FPS at 60Hz)
So with a 1080p native display you might use: 1080p24, 1080p50, 1080p60
Or: 1080p24, 1080p60 if you have an NTSC panel that does not support 50Hz refresh rates.
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Yeah you're right that mine is 1024x768, but for some reason my AVR doesn't like it. If I let madVR change to it or change to it in NVIDIA control panel, my screen goes black. I have to turn the amp off and back on. It's a Pioneer VSX-529 with GT 730 GPU.
Just testing a few things out.
So I would use 1024x768i60, or 1024x768p60? Or just 1024x768?
And then what do I do with some of the other madVR options: smooth motion, de-interlacing etc.
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You should always send a progressive signal from the PC.
Hmm, I'm not sure about the AVR. The thing is that 1024x768 is a "PC" resolution rather than a "HDTV" resolution (480i/p/720p/1080i/p) so the AVR may not like it.
I don't suppose it's possible to do something like use DVI from the PC straight into the TV for video, and HDMI into the AVR for audio? I don't really have much experience with AVRs.
The smooth motion/deinterlacing settings should be left as they are in the guide.
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Maybe it can be useful as a supplement, especially regarding new settings: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787
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Thankful for this thread, worked my way through it this weekend, and it solved an annoying problem. During the past couple of months, I started noticing picture had become washed out. And I literally mean had become, because I am pretty sure this was all correct when the calibrated projector was installed a couple of years back, because I was so happy with the black levels.
After reading the thread I double checked range settings, and found both madvr and the nvidia driver to limited level range 16-255. Now madvr is set to 0-255 (as per recommendations in this thread) and nvidia 16-255, and black levels came back to what I remember as good and normal.
Problem is solved, but the question remains - did the washed out thing happen because of range default change in some recent madvr update, nvidia driver update, both, or was it always this way?
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Recent NVIDIA drivers changed, as they implemented an option to clearly choose 0-255 or 16-235, and this may have influenced the behavior. I had to reset the setting on my HTPC as well, but of course I knew that the setting would appear, in fact that was the reason I installed the new driver. ;)
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Recent NVIDIA drivers changed, as they implemented an option to clearly choose 0-255 or 16-235, and this may have influenced the behavior. I had to reset the setting on my HTPC as well, but of course I knew that the setting would appear, in fact that was the reason I installed the new driver. ;)
Ah, good, there's the explanation, thanks. There may be some of us (less watchful) that didn't notice that at once.
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Another thing - the Output Color Format is either "RGB" or "YCbCr444". What is the correct choice?
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Another thing - the Output Color Format is either "RGB" or "YCbCr444". What is the correct choice?
RGB
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Ok, thanks.
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Anyone else seeing unreported (in the madVR GUI) frame drops / presentation glitches with MC21 / Win10 / nvidia GPU? Been solid for years, but this has started in the last month but of course lots up SW upgrades in that time! (MC, Win, nvidia drivers)! No noticable pattern just dropped frames or presentation glitch though Audio is perfect. It may be unrelated but I've had two occasions where black frames were presented for a couple of seconds to the PJ as well that I've never seen before either.
I've seen a few posts in the madVR doom thread but most seem to be AMD related.
Thanks
Nathan
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I had also a few crashs with my gtx 750 TI under Win 10.
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I'm still getting unreported visible Dropped Frames or Presentations Glitchs on my HTPC regardless of the madVR and MC settings. I'm about to Nuke/Pave but before I do any suggestions? It has been 100% stable pre Win10 RTM (and at the same time a change in TV) for years so this one has me scratching my head.
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I see Madshi has NNEDI3 working again under Win10. Whats the sweet spot these days for GPUs?
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I see Madshi has NNEDI3 working again under Win10.
Really? Cool.
I'm going to give it a try although I'm really liking Lanczos 3 Taps with AR right now which seems to have less blurring compared to NNEDI3 in my experience.
Whats the sweet spot these days for GPUs?
For NNEDI3, more is always better.
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Thanks - I'll play some more with the settings first....
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A GTX 950 or a GTX 960.
Both will do 10-bit UHD decoding and are the only GPUs other than the Skylake iGPUs which can.
I think Skylake is the only GPU which will do VP9 decoding though. Or at least, it's not supported via LAV on my 960.
Note that Skylake GPUs (and Broadwell as well) only have a hybrid decoder for 10-bit, so its somewhat ineffecient.
And VP9 decoding isn't possible with any GPU through LAV today, because there is no common interface to access such a decoder.
For 4K TVs, a 960 4GB is probably a good choice. Not the most highend for all sorts of NNEDI3 processing, but still decent.
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Do we know if the 960 will do VP9 decoding?
That depends if there will ever be a DXVA2 specification for VP9 (and if NVIDIA in turn adopts it). Right now, I wouldn't bet on it.