INTERACT FORUM
Networks and Remotes => Media Network => Topic started by: bob on October 23, 2014, 03:58:08 pm
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Starting with build 20.0.27 you can apply DSP to files served by MC's DLNA server(s).
To do this:
Options->Media Network->Add or Configure DLNA Servers->Audio
Mode: Specified output Format MUST be selected.
..Audio->Advanced
...DSP Studio ...
will be visible. Make changes there.
Note that these options only apply to files served by that particular MC DLNA server.
You can create multiple DLNA servers and each will be able to have it's own DSP Studio settings.
This means if you associate a zone with a particular server (right-click the zone and do "associate with DLNA server") you can have separate DSP effects for each zone or groups of zones.
Possible issues:
The server probably currently is generating incorrect Content Directory DIDL (file description for the renderer) if you change sample rate and perhaps bit depth.
Test with equalization effects first...
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Hi Bob
This feature alone made me upgrade my home server to V20, I think its an extremely powerful feature !
I tested the following configuration:
JRMC20 --> Logitech Media Server configured as DLNA renderer --> My own built device running Linux with Squeezelite.
This configuration plays 192/24 flac files from MC without any issues.
When choosing specified format, I started out with the PCM variations - no go :o
Only when I switched to MP3, it started working.
So I really love this new feature, but I cant use it if I have to downscale to MP3. I look forward to have this running with PCM/FLAC.
Thanks, Yair
Start simple.
Don't invoke any DSP functions.
With "Specified Format" selected to preserve 24 bit your only options formats are PCM 24 bit and PCM 24 bit No Header.
The No Header one is unlikely to play since I've only seen one hardware device support it.
The PCM 24 bit option is a 24 bit Wave file. This is NOT a format that DLNA devices are required to support. If your Squeezelite doesn't you are out of luck at the 24 bit level.
You could try PCM 16 bit No Header. This is a format that is required to be supported by the spec.
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Squeezeboxes don't play 24 bit audio natively. If you got the impression that your box was playing 24 bit then that is just an impression, and in reality Squeezebox server / LMS is transcoding back to 16 bit before forwarding to the box. Therefore if you want to push a DSP'd track from MC the best choice is to push L16 no header, or PCM 16.
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It's a go ! ;D
I have deleted my previous messages as they are irrelevant.
I tried the same Linux device, this time with a different software package called Volumio (which is a Linux player based on MPD), with UPNP enabled.
It will play all formats with DSP enabled, including (surprise !!) M4A files at 192/24 rates.
I'm impressed !
Yair
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It seems to me that the current MC server settings dialog has some implicit duplications. On one hand under the Advanced settings block, it offers a checkbox for Stereo downmix, a checkbox for Volume Levelling, and a selector for Sample rate. And on the other hand, under the DSP Studio selector it also offers a DSP dialog that (among other things) allows you to select a Channel down- or up- mix selection, a Volume Levelling selection, and a Sample Rate selection. I don't see why these two sets of settings are needed. And if they are needed, it is not clear which set of settings would apply in case of conflicting selections..
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It seems to me that the current MC server settings dialog has some implicit duplications. On one hand under the Advanced settings block, it offers a checkbox for Stereo downmix, a checkbox for Volume Levelling, and a selector for Sample rate. And on the other hand, under the DSP Studio selector it also offers a DSP dialog that (among other things) allows you to select a Channel down- or up- mix selection, a Volume Levelling selection, and a Sample Rate selection. I don't see why these two sets of settings are needed. And if they are needed, it is not clear which set of settings would apply in case of conflicting selections..
That's a good overview of the situation.
The original goal was simplicity. There is some work to be done in this area.
The volume leveling toggle appears to work as expected.
The sample rate selection is an issue. As I've said before I don't think it's being presented properly in the DIDL if it's done in the DSP studio settings in lieu of the simple option.
Not sure about downmix, likely problematic as well.
It's on the list...
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^
Yeah, I think you would need to adjust the DIDL that is passed in your SetAvTransportURI commands, and also the DIDL that is passed in your CD:Browse and CD:Search responses to match the channel count and sample rate of the current DSP settings.
Note: You would need special treatment for the DIDL of the sample rate because in the DSP dialog the delivered sample rate can be selected differently depending on the sample rate of the original source file.
Also you would need to adjust the L16 (and L24) mime type "rate=" and "channels=" attributes.
And furthermore you would need to lock out some impossible DSP combinations like upsampling to 24 bit and trying to stream it as L16, etc.
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^
Yeah, I think you would need to adjust the DIDL that is passed in your SetAvTransportURI commands, and also the DIDL that is passed in your CD:Browse and CD:Search responses to match the channel count and sample rate of the current DSP settings.
Note: You would need special treatment for the DIDL of the sample rate because in the DSP dialog the delivered sample rate can be selected differently depending on the sample rate of the original source file.
Also you would need to adjust the L16 (and L24) mime type "rate=" and "channels=" attributes.
And furthermore you would need to lock out some impossible DSP combinations like upsampling to 24 bit and trying to stream it as L16, etc.
Yeah, I think you put your finger on all of it...
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Hi Bob,
I'm evaluating MC 20.0.40 for Mac and I can't seem to get any of the DSP Studio settings to work. I've tried both PCM 16 and PCM 24 to no avail.
Interestingly, the Volume leveling toggle under the advanced tab works fine (as reported) but the same function within DSP Studio does not.
Is this a known bug that is expected to be ironed out soon? I've been planning to upgrade from MC19 to MC20 precisely for DSP over DLNA. Please help!
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Hi Bob,
I'm evaluating MC 20.0.40 for Mac and I can't seem to get any of the DSP Studio settings to work. I've tried both PCM 16 and PCM 24 to no avail.
Interestingly, the Volume leveling toggle under the advanced tab works fine (as reported) but the same function within DSP Studio does not.
Is this a known bug that is expected to be ironed out soon? I've been planning to upgrade from MC19 to MC20 precisely for DSP over DLNA. Please help!
There are some quirks in it currently but it is functional (sample rate changing is likely not).
Try something simple like the equalizer.
Note the you MUST use "Specified Format" or none of the advanced options will be applicable.
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will JRiver DLNA ever support up sampling PCM to DSD via DSP Studio?
thanks
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will JRiver DLNA ever support up sampling PCM to DSD via DSP Studio?
I'd like to have DLNA PCM upsampling to DoPE.
I spent two nights of experimenting various setup options to get this to work, before finding this thread to learn that this is not (yet?) supported.
Secondly, I'd like to have DLNA support for sample rate changing.
Thanks. ;D
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I'd like to have DLNA PCM upsampling to DoPE.
I spent two nights of experimenting various setup options to get this to work, before finding this thread to learn that this is not (yet?) supported.
Secondly, I'd like to have DLNA support for sample rate changing.
Thanks. ;D
Don't know about the format conversion to DSD yet but you can already change the sample rate in DLNA. It's under the server Audio->Advanced options.
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you can already change the sample rate in DLNA. It's under the server Audio->Advanced options.
The top-level sample rate change works, but I couldn't get the DLNA - DSP Studio - Output Format Sample Rate Change table to take effect.
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The top-level sample rate change works, but I couldn't get the DLNA - DSP Studio - Output Format Sample Rate Change table to take effect.
Don't use the DSP one for now, use the one I specified. There is a conflict between the one in DSP studio and the advanced option.
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Good Evening,
I use JRiver mac and JRemote . I have the latest version ( 20.0.64 ) . Files ( mp3, wave , flac , dsd ....) are stored on a NAS Synology ( DS214 +). The sound is sent to my stereo via ethernet network drive with integrated DAC ( 3DLAB ) .
I blocked on servers dlna ....
Everything is checked in tools / option / media network using the procedures described on wikis . JRemote works perfectly and the sound comes out on my channel with no problem.
However, when I click on [ ... Add or configure DLNA servers ] and I add dlna servers, I do not know where to find them later. I expected to find the top left in playing, but nothing.
Hence my question : what is the use to configure / add dlna servers?
Finally, in advanced audio functions when I want to use the studio dsp when I check an option left, " output format " for example, is registered { stopped reading or incompatible with the treatment } and { very bottom level peak : n / a } { origin: n / a} { internal : n / a} .
I take it it will not work ....
Can you explain why ?
Can you give me the procedure or perform a paramettrage ?
In advance thank you .
Patrick , Bordeaux, France .
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If you add a DLNA Server on one machine, it should be visible on other machines, under Playing Now. If it isn't, then a firewall might be blocking it on one machine or the other. You could read the wiki topic called Network Access (http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Network_Access) for information about this.
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thank you for your reply, and desolated for my english ... :)
I will read this article.
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Desole pour mon francais. je comprend mieux que j'ecris.
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It still doesn't work....
Can somebody explain me step by step how to use dsp with dlna network player.
Can somebody explain me step by step how to set up dlna server and pût thème in "now playing" area.
Tanks a lot
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my question is can be unclear.
in fact, I just want to enjoy DSP FUNCTIONALITIES when I send the sound on my hi fi system through my network drive.
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Please start at the Media Network topic on our wiki.
You need to turn on Media Network first.
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It's on the list...
Maybe you can add gapless to that list? I have used DLNA + DSP for convolution successfully since is was made available. Using only the DLNA server, gapless playback works. Adding DSP to the chain breaks gapless.
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Maybe you can add gapless to that list? I have used DLNA + DSP for convolution successfully since is was made available. Using only the DLNA server, gapless playback works. Adding DSP to the chain breaks gapless.
As long as the rendering device requests the next file early enough you shouldn't have an issue with this. Have you tried pushing to MC as a renderer with a gapless playlist?
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As long as the rendering device requests the next file early enough you shouldn't have an issue with this. Have you tried pushing to MC as a renderer with a gapless playlist?
I use upmpdcli as renderer in front of mpd. I use either JRemote or Gizmo to play. Recently I also tried Bubbleupnp. Same behavior. I'll check with the developer of upmpdcli. Is there a difference between MC upnp server and upnp+dsp regarding how early the next file must be requested? I have not tried pushing to MC as renderer.
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I use upmpdcli as renderer in front of mpd. I use either JRemote or Gizmo to play. Recently I also tried Bubbleupnp. Same behavior. I'll check with the developer of upmpdcli. Is there a difference between MC upnp server and upnp+dsp regarding how early the next file must be requested? I have not tried pushing to MC as renderer.
I'd assume adding the dsp introduces an additional delay.
MC as a renderer can be set via the prebuffering audio paramter to request the file earlier which is why I was wondering if you had tried it.
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Hi
JRiver 20.0.80 on Mac
DLNA server OK
options/media network/add or configure DLNA Servers
Audio
Specified output format
PCM 24 bits
Advanced
Sample rate same as source
DSP Studio
From here, on every option on the left column, I get "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing".
And no effect on sound if I force equalization for example.
What did I miss?
Kind regards
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Oh yes, there are sound effects!!
But it seems that a JRiver restart is needed to take modifications into account…
Am I right?
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Oh yes, there are sound effects!!
But it seems that a JRiver restart is needed to take modifications into account…
Am I right?
I went through exactly the steps you list and when I push a track to a DLNA zone it plays with with the proper file format and equalization without a restart of MC.
The track you played may have been cached though, you should try a different one to make sure.
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Thanks Bob
I also realized that the track was cached.
But even with a "new" file, the behavior seems to be not always the same, when switching on and off equalization, sometimes it switches at once, sometimes it seems to need a restart.
Not absolutely sure.
Kind regards
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As long as the rendering device requests the next file early enough you shouldn't have an issue with this. Have you tried pushing to MC as a renderer with a gapless playlist?
I am also not able to play DNLA + DSP (Convolution) gapless.
Setup: BubbleUPnP as control; MC19 as renderer on PC1; MC20 as sever on PC2
Gapless playback works without convolution (or with convolution on the renderer).
Convolution on the server site works fine but it plays not gapless.
MC19 requests the next file early enough and the server is strong enough for the convolution.
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Welcome to Interact. MC20 would be needed on both, since the feature was not added until recently.
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Welcome to Interact. MC20 would be needed on both, since the feature was not added until recently.
Thank you for welcoming me.
I don’t understand your answer! Maybe my description was not precise enough.
MC19 acts as a standard DLNA renderer (with gapless support).
MC20 acts as a standard DNLA server with DSP (Convolution) over DNLA.
The version of MC on the renderer site should not matter as long as it is able to play gapless.
Anyway, I have done the update to MC20. Now I have MC20 on both sites.
As expected, the playback it not gapless when Convolution is enabled on the server.
The goal is to replace my current renderer (now MC20) in the living room with an MOON 180 MiND Streamer.
The digital room correction should be done on the server site with MC20.
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I have DLNA working with my OPPO BDP-93. My big issue is that my DSP plugin ( Redline Preamp VST) which I selected in the DLNA options in MC20 is not functioning - no effect on the sound.
The VST plugin works fine on my local attached DAC to my headphone, but not over DLNA.
Since DSP over DLNA is one of the major features in MC20 - ( and the main reason I bought it) I wonder if someone would be kind enough to post a response. Thanks in advance.
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I have DLNA working with my OPPO BDP-93. My big issue is that my DSP plugin ( Redline Preamp VST) which I selected in the DLNA options in MC20 is not functioning - no effect on the sound.
The VST plugin works fine on my local attached DAC to my headphone, but not over DLNA.
Since DSP over DLNA is one of the major features in MC20 - ( and the main reason I bought it) I wonder if someone would be kind enough to post a response. Thanks in advance.
No idea about your plugin but you need to make sure the Audio setting in MC's DLNA server options is set to "Specified Format".
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It is set to "specified Format.
have you tested MC20 with any VST plugins for DSP? Can you confirm that they work over DLNA?
( Or does DSP over DLNA only work with MCs built-in DSP choices?)
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I think it would be a fairly simple thing to do - just get one of the many VST plugins available for various DSP efects. Try it out on MC20.
Provide a statement that is one of the two:
1. VST plugins work over DLNA - with ... blah blah... exceptions.
2. VST plugins dont work over DLNA.
a) We are working to make it work
b) We dont feel the need to support vst plugins over DLNA.
That would be helpful for your loyal customers to know.
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I think it would be a fairly simple thing to do - just get one of the many VST plugins available for various DSP efects. Try it out on MC20.
Provide a statement that is one of the two:
1. VST plugins work over DLNA - with ... blah blah... exceptions.
2. VST plugins dont work over DLNA.
a) We are working to make it work
b) We dont feel the need to support vst plugins over DLNA.
That would be helpful for your loyal customers to know.
No idea and I'm not working in that area.
Perhaps Matt has a comment.
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MC as a renderer can be set via the prebuffering audio paramter to request the file earlier which is why I was wondering if you had tried it.
Hello Bob!
I have finally tested this. 20.0.99 as renderer on a Atom laptop (WinXP)and the DLNA server running 20.0.100 on a different machine (Win7). Without DSP, playback is gapless. With DSP enabled it is no longer gapless. Same as I have experienced with several different renderers. I'm afraid you'll have to look into this. The next track is always fetched on track change i.e. track 3 is cued when switch from 1 to 2 is taking place. The default 6 seconds is enough. I tried 10 seconds and could not detect any difference.
Can you also please indicate when we can expect the convolution config in DSP to display filter properties and processing while playing (as it does when playing to a local device). It is a problem to all the time see "not valid" when in fact convolution and other DSP features is working.
Correction: It seems to be only when I enable convolution gapless is broken. This afternoon I enabled only parametric equalizing in DSP and playback is gapless. So it is not the DSP processing as such. but convolution that messes with gapless track change. This is the same as 71titan describes further up in the thread.
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Has anyone got this to work? Under Advanced settings, I can choose the single sample rate I want and this seems to work (I actually had it working on V19). But this seems to override DSP Studio settings. For example, in DSP Studio I have different upsample rates set (44.1>>88.2 and 48>>96) but all I ever get is the single rate set in Sample Rate under Advanced. Am I missing something?
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Has anyone got this to work? Under Advanced settings, I can choose the single sample rate I want and this seems to work (I actually had it working on V19). But this seems to override DSP Studio settings. For example, in DSP Studio I have different upsample rates set (44.1>>88.2 and 48>>96) but all I ever get is the single rate set in Sample Rate under Advanced. Am I missing something?
No you are not.
There is a conflict between the advanced settings and DSP studio that hasn't been resolved at this time.
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Bump
no response to my post (38) from April 27 yet?
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No you are not.
There is a conflict between the advanced settings and DSP studio that hasn't been resolved at this time.
Is there a workaround for this?
Does leaving the advanced setting to keep the sample rate the same as source but change the DSP frequency to the desired one help?
As most DLNA Wi-Fi is only 44.1 and 48kHz, I would prefer 192 and 96kHz downsampled to 48kHz and 88.2 and DSD downsampled to 44.1 for cleaner maths
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Is there a workaround for this?
Does leaving the advanced setting to keep the sample rate the same as source but change the DSP frequency to the desired one help?
Not yet. And no.
The reason is that the server must provide an HTTP Content-Length Header and an HTTP Content-Type Header to the renderer at the start of the streaming. And presently MC calculates both Content-Length and Content-Type based on what is going in to the DSP engine and not based on what is coming out of it.
I don't think it would actually be a big amount of work to change that behavior, so I don't really understand why it has taken them so long. Probably just due to other priorities I suppose..
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Hi
JRiver 20.0.80 on Mac
DLNA server OK
options/media network/add or configure DLNA Servers
Audio
Specified output format
PCM 24 bits
Advanced
Sample rate same as source
DSP Studio
From here, on every option on the left column, I get "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing".
And no effect on sound if I force equalization for example.
What did I miss?
Kind regards
Hi to all,
I am running latest version of MC20 on Win8 and have exactly the same issue as per quote above. this is valid for any of the DSP options available in the menu. Can anyone please tell me where I am going wrong?
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Are you sure that your renderer is capable of playing PCM 24 bits (L24)? It is a very uncommon format.
PS you could download the DMRA analyzer from the link in my sig, and post the test results here, to see what your renderer is capable of.
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I'm encountering the same problem reported earlier in this thread with convolution and DLNA.
I have a CAPS v4 Cortes running Win 7 Pro x64 and MC 21.0.15 configured as a DLNA server. This machine uses a Xeon CPU and has a JRMark of around 4600.
I'm using an AURALiC Aries as a DLNA renderer. They are connected over a wired gigabit network. MC is pushing music to the Aries.
I've been experimenting with DSP on the DLNA server. Gapless playback works fine, even with a dozen or more parametric EQ filters. When using convolution playback is not gapless; the gap between tracks is short - a small fraction of a second, but definitely noticeable on music that's continuous across multiple tracks.
Monitoring the performance of the server, the CPU isn't breaking a sweat (max 12%) during playback - so I don't think this is due to hardware limitations.
Has anyone found a solution or workaround to this? (I mean a workaround other than running convolution on a client PC or pre-convolving all of my music files.)
Thanks,
-Brent
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I'm a new user of JRiver, and also cannot get DSP to work properly over DLNA (I purchased JRiver solely for this feature, so it's a bit disappointing).
The DLNA server is working fine. I can happily access my library and play it back over my Yamaha NP-S2000 renderer.
The options within the "Tools>Options>Media Network>Add and Configure..." window also work fine. I can switch between 16bit and 24bit output here, and upsample/downsample by specifying a sample rate (all this functions correctly). However, nothing in the DSP studio window works (irrespective of how things are set in the previous window: 24bit, specified output format, sample rate same as source, for example).
What I particularly want to do is use convolution filters I created using DRC Designer (which work correctly if I pre-convolve files using foobar or dBPoweramp, so there's nothing wrong with the filters). But DSP Studio always displays "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing" and "Status: Not valid".
Any help greatly appreciated.
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I'm a new user of JRiver, and also cannot get DSP to work properly over DLNA (I purchased JRiver solely for this feature, so it's a bit disappointing).
The DLNA server is working fine. I can happily access my library and play it back over my Yamaha NP-S2000 renderer.
The options within the "Tools>Options>Media Network>Add and Configure..." window also work fine. I can switch between 16bit and 24bit output here, and upsample/downsample by specifying a sample rate (all this functions correctly). However, nothing in the DSP studio window works (irrespective of how things are set in the previous window: 24bit, specified output format, sample rate same as source, for example).
What I particularly want to do is use convolution filters I created using DRC Designer (which work correctly if I pre-convolve files using foobar or dBPoweramp, so there's nothing wrong with the filters). But DSP Studio always displays "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing" and "Status: Not valid".
Any help greatly appreciated.
If you have the DLNA server set to specified output and selected the DSP studio settings from that dialog it think it should work. The conflicts are with the sample rate setting and the DSP studio settings which shouldn't affect your usage. Try something simple like an easy to hear equalizer effect first to see if you've got the configuration of DLNA correct.
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If you have the DLNA server set to specified output and selected the DSP studio settings from that dialog it think it should work. The conflicts are with the sample rate setting and the DSP studio settings which shouldn't affect your usage. Try something simple like an easy to hear equalizer effect first to see if you've got the configuration of DLNA correct.
Unfortunately I still cannot get any of the DSP studio settings to work over DLNA (equalizer included). I'm attaching a screenshot of my settings -- I *think* I have everything set correctly.
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Two things..
1. Some DSP effects change the sample rate, bit depth, or channel count to values different than what the renderer is expecting, and this causes playback not to work. Convolution is a quite complex DSP effect and so may indeed cause this problem. Does it play if you use no effect at all? And does it play if you use a simple DSP effect like volume leveling?
2. Not very many renderers support PCM 24 bit. So try it with PCM 16 bit No Header (L16) first.
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Two things..
1. Some DSP effects change the sample rate, bit depth, or channel count to values different than what the renderer is expecting, and this causes playback not to work. Convolution is a quite complex DSP effect and so may indeed cause this problem. Does it play if you use no effect at all? And does it play if you use a simple DSP effect like volume leveling?
2. Not very many renderers support PCM 24 bit. So try it with PCM 16 bit No Header (L16) first.
1. It plays fine with no DSP Studio effects (and plays fine with them selected as well -- it's just that they fail to actually activate). Outside of the "DSP Studio" window, some processing works correctly -- for instance, if I select "Sample rate: 192000 hz" within the advanced section of the "DLNA Servers" window, the audio is upsampled and sent to my renderer at 192khz. However, if I set the sample rate in the "DLNA Servers" window to "Same as source", and resample using the "DSP Studio Output Format" window, no resampling actually occurs. Likewise, setting the output to PCM 24bit in the "DLNA Servers" window works fine (my renderer receives the audio files in 24bit), but activating the Equalizer or Convolution etc. within DSP Studio does nothing at all (the audio still plays, but the selected processing is not applied).
2. The Yamaha NP-S2000 is compatible with PCM up to 24/192, and you can set the display to show the sample rate and bit depth it is receiving. I've attached a photo. I tried setting the output in the "DLNA Servers" window to "PCM 16 bit No Header" to see if that helped. Playback works fine (as it does at 24bit), but just as with 24bit, none of the processing selected within the "DSP Studio" window is applied.
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As mentioned in my prior post, if DSP were to change sample rate, bit depth, or channel count, it would be sending a stream with different audio parameters than it had previously "advertised" to the renderer via the UPNP mechanisms, and this inconsistency would break the playback entirely.
Based on your symptoms, it sounds like this version of MC is detecting such potential inconsistencies and rather than letting the playback break entirely, it is instead suspending the DSP so that at least you hear something...
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As mentioned in my prior post, if DSP were to change sample rate, bit depth, or channel count, it would be sending a stream with different audio parameters than it had previously "advertised" to the renderer via the UPNP mechanisms, and this inconsistency would break the playback entirely.
Based on your symptoms, it sounds like this version of MC is detecting such potential inconsistencies and rather than letting the playback break entirely, it is instead suspending the DSP so that at least you hear something...
I don't think that can be the problem, as it is not only the processing that has the potential to change the sample rate, bit depth, or channel count that fails to activate. Nothing within the DSP Studio window activates -- the equalizer, for instance, doesn't work. If MC has decided that there is a potential inconsistency when I am using the equalizer, then MC is being a little overzealous about maintaining consistency, no?
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Ok. You need to wait for a response from bob..
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Unfortunately I still cannot get any of the DSP studio settings to work over DLNA (equalizer included). I'm attaching a screenshot of my settings -- I *think* I have everything set correctly.
The settings look correct.
Would you verify that the equalizer isn't working? I just tested it with your settings and it worked fine (I sent all the bands to minimum except for the first two which makes a unmissable horrible sound).
Note that a converted file is cached. You should stop and restart MC when changing the settings to make sure you aren't using a cached file conversion (or select a different file to play).
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The settings look correct.
Would you verify that the equalizer isn't working? I just tested it with your settings and it worked fine (I sent all the bands to minimum except for the first two which makes a unmissable horrible sound).
Note that a converted file is cached. You should stop and restart MC when changing the settings to make sure you aren't using a cached file conversion (or select a different file to play).
I've tried a few things and am getting random results. I can't seem to get the equalizer to work when the output is set to "same as source" in the "DLNA Servers" window. Setting the sample rate in the "DLNA Servers" window to any one sample rate (from 44.1 to 192k) results in the equalizer working sometimes (although I guess this could be a coincidence).
I have no idea what's going on:
-- Restarting MC or the Media Server seems to make no difference in whether the equalizer works or not.
-- When changes are made in the DSP Studio Equalizer window, those settings are sometimes saved and sometimes not. On reopening DSP Studio the settings may or may not be the same as how they were left.
-- Irrespective of whether the equalizer is working (and music is playing), the DSP Studio Equalizer will display "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing".
In contrast, changing the sample rate or bit depth in the DLNA Servers window works every time, immediately upon playing a new file.
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You are accessing the DSP studio in the Advanced Audio settings in the DLNA server, correct?
I just tried all combinations of Volume leveling and sample rate (under advanced, not in DSP studio settings) with the EQ on and it worked fine.
Perhaps your renderer is caching files?
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Hi. I'm running MC 21.0.23 on Windows 10. Has there been any progress in getting the DSP Studio automated down sampling to work? Or is it still necessary to manually change the Advanced>Sample Rate setting to stream a DXD file to a network renderer that can only handle 192K?
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Hi. I'm running MC 21.0.23 on Windows 10. Has there been any progress in getting the DSP Studio automated down sampling to work? Or is it still necessary to manually change the Advanced>Sample Rate setting to stream a DXD file to a network renderer that can only handle 192K?
That change is still in the pipeline. You must use the Advanced>Sample Rate setting at this time.
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Thanks, Bob. Unfortunately, changing the sample rate that way only seems to work for PCM files. My DAC will accept only single-rate DSD files, so I typically use DSP Studio to down sample anything higher but when I set the Sample Rate under Advanced to 176K, for example, my DSD files won't play.
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I'm just now getting my feet wet with the Media Network part of JRiver.
I'm using the Lumin A-1 Network Streamer with the Lumin app as the controller.
While typing these questions I'm at work so I can't test different things out until I get home.
So while configuring the Media Network in JRiver, I see Generic DLNA and I see Audiophile 24 bit. Is this saying by using the Generic DLNA my 24 bit files will not play and I have to use the Audiophile 24 bit? - and how about DSD files? The Lumin A-1 can play up to DSD64 2.8MH with formats of DSF, DIFF and DoP If I'm not mistaken.
What are the configurations I should be using if I want the play "all files" and formats from Red Book and HiRes (AIFF, FLAC, WAV) to DSD64 (DSF and DiFF)?
I will try any and all suggestion when I get off work.
Thanks
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I'm encountering the same problem reported earlier in this thread with convolution and DLNA.
I have a CAPS v4 Cortes running Win 7 Pro x64 and MC 21.0.15 configured as a DLNA server. This machine uses a Xeon CPU and has a JRMark of around 4600.
I'm using an AURALiC Aries as a DLNA renderer. They are connected over a wired gigabit network. MC is pushing music to the Aries.
I've been experimenting with DSP on the DLNA server. Gapless playback works fine, even with a dozen or more parametric EQ filters. When using convolution playback is not gapless; the gap between tracks is short - a small fraction of a second, but definitely noticeable on music that's continuous across multiple tracks.
Monitoring the performance of the server, the CPU isn't breaking a sweat (max 12%) during playback - so I don't think this is due to hardware limitations.
Has anyone found a solution or workaround to this? (I mean a workaround other than running convolution on a client PC or pre-convolving all of my music files.)
Thanks,
-Brent
Hi everybody.
Is this problem resolved (When using convolution the playback is not gapless) ?
Thanks in advance and nice day for everyone ;D
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I'm encountering the same problem reported earlier in this thread with convolution and DLNA.
I have a CAPS v4 Cortes running Win 7 Pro x64 and MC 21.0.15 configured as a DLNA server. This machine uses a Xeon CPU and has a JRMark of around 4600.
I'm using an AURALiC Aries as a DLNA renderer. They are connected over a wired gigabit network. MC is pushing music to the Aries.
I've been experimenting with DSP on the DLNA server. Gapless playback works fine, even with a dozen or more parametric EQ filters. When using convolution playback is not gapless; the gap between tracks is short - a small fraction of a second, but definitely noticeable on music that's continuous across multiple tracks.
Monitoring the performance of the server, the CPU isn't breaking a sweat (max 12%) during playback - so I don't think this is due to hardware limitations.
Has anyone found a solution or workaround to this? (I mean a workaround other than running convolution on a client PC or pre-convolving all of my music files.)
Thanks,
-Brent
Hi everybody.
Is this problem resolved (When using convolution the playback is not gapless) ?
Thanks in advance and nice day for everyone ;D
Hi,
Nobody knows if this problem was resolved ?
I would like to know about it before purchasing the JRiver.
Thanks in advance and nice day for everybody here ;D
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Using JRiver 21 convolution filter currently and streaming to ODROID-C2 with Volumio via DLNA/UPnP.
Sadly, still not gapless with convolution turned on but gapless otherwise.
Is the gap a reflection of the latency induced by the FIR filter? Would it be possible to calculate the latency based on tap length and samplerate, and start playback of the next track past the expected latency period? Maybe add a checkbox to activate this compensation?
Unfortunate annoyance...
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Using JRiver 21 convolution filter currently and streaming to ODROID-C2 with Volumio via DLNA/UPnP.
Sadly, still not gapless with convolution turned on but gapless otherwise.
Is the gap a reflection of the latency induced by the FIR filter? Would it be possible to calculate the latency based on tap length and samplerate, and start playback of the next track past the expected latency period? Maybe add a checkbox to activate this compensation?
Unfortunate annoyance...
An interesting question..
The way gapless works, is that the Control Point provides the Renderer with two track URLs -- namely the URL of the current track, and the URL of the "next" track. This enables the Renderer to start downloading the next track into a buffer while it is playing the current track.
At least that is the theory. However many renderers do not really start downloading the next track until they have finished playing the current one. This rather defeats the point of "gapless" of course. Many renderer manufacturers (marketing departments thereof) like to pretend that supporting SetNextAVTransportURI means that they did enough for them to claim gapless support. Hey ho.
So, if your renderer is one of the ones alluded to above, then yes, the delay could be due to the DSP filter latency, and no, there is nothing that MC could do about that.
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Thanks for your reply.
So, if I have well understood, you are saying that the problem is on the renderer's side.
Some renderers, already reported in this thread, cannot do it (Auralic ARIES, ODROID-C2+Volumio and even the MC20 configured as renderer).
Do you know, please, the renderers that can playback gapless using JRiver convolution filter on the server side ?
Thanks in advance and have a nice day.
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So, if I have well understood, you are saying that the problem is on the renderer's side.
Yes. I am afraid that is indeed the case.
Some renderers, already reported in this thread, cannot do it (Auralic ARIES, ODROID-C2+Volumio and even the MC20 configured as renderer).
Indeed. There is a basic test for a renderer's capability to do gapless playback -- namely whether the renderer supports the optional UPnP command method called "SetNextAVTransportURI". If a renderer does not support this method then it certainly cannot to do gapless playback. But unfortunately supporting the "SetNextAVTransportURI" method is essential, but not sufficient.
There are some renderers (like yours) that do support "SetNextAVTransportURI" but do not start downloading the next track into a buffer while the current track is playing. And since they do not have the next track pre- buffered, they are not actually capable of making a smooth gapless transition between one track and the next. Often the gap is shorter than you would get with regular gapped play, but it is not totally gapless..
Do you know, please, the renderers that can playback gapless using JRiver convolution filter on the server side ?
Over the last years, people have been using my Digital media Renderer Analyser (DMRA) to test their renderers. If you look at the DMRA web page ( http://www.whitebear.ch/dmra ) under the heading "Database of Renderer Test Reports" there is a link where you can download the log reports of all the renderers so far submitted. The DMRA tests if the "SetNextAVTransportURI" method is supported, but admittedly it does not test if the renderer does the also essential pre- buffering of the next track...
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Andrew:
Given than Volumio does actually handle gapless without convolution DSP active, I assume there is potentially pre-buffering of the next track happening, right?
I'm thinking the gap is just the latency of the FIR filter (typically 0.125-0.75sec for 64k and 128k tap length filters depending on samplerate)... Perhaps if JRiver presented the audio for the next track where it actually starts after the latency based on FIR filter length and expected latency just like how it synchronizes audio/video playback, perhaps that's what's needed???
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Andrew:
Given than Volumio does actually handle gapless without convolution DSP active, I assume there is potentially pre-buffering of the next track happening, right?
I'm thinking the gap is just the latency of the FIR filter (typically 0.125-0.75sec for 64k and 128k tap length filters depending on samplerate)... Perhaps if JRiver presented the audio for the next track where it actually starts after the latency based on FIR filter length and expected latency just like how it synchronizes audio/video playback, perhaps that's what's needed???
Yes, you may be right. You could test this by downloading the DMR Analyser from my sig, and running the test yourself. The regular renderer report is not sufficient to tell exactly what is going on, so you have to check the box "Enable HTTP logging" on the bottom of the screen, then run the tests again, and save & post the HTTP log file here..
EDIT: PS there is no way that MC could compensate for its own latency. Well, .. the only way that I could possibly imagine doing something that would be to start serving the track without DSP, and start processing the DSP in parallel at the same time, and somehow doing a soft cross fade between the non DSP version stream and the DSP version stream. But frankly I think that would sound totally dreadful..
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So, sadly, the conclusion could be :
- there is no renderer able to play gapless using JRiver convolution filter on the server side ?
I have looked at your database and found there two of reported here renderers (AURALIC ARIES, JRMC20), according to your database both support gapless playback, but sadly it's not enough to do it with convolution activated.
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I can't wait to try DSP -> DLNA, but first I had an issue pushing content to my new renderer, a NAD D7050.
Thanks to AndrewFG (Whitebear) excellent Media Renderer Analyzer, I discover that even though this render is quite capable with direct-connected sources, its DLNA support has a bug with Gapless support.
But thanks to the handy dandy settings recommendations this app provides, I can configure MC to generate the correct outputs to drive it.
Incredibly useful app, and nicely implemented, donation sent!
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^
Many thanks. :)
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Following on to the discussion about renders that claim to support "SetNextAVTransportURI" and then have issues, my new renderer, the NAD D 7050, indicates it supports that, but then totally screws up the playback of subsequent tracks (when using PCM).
The first track will play just fine, then the second track will sound garbled and 'choppy', then the third track just emits clicks as if the sample rate or bit depth were totally off. The unit then is stuck in some bad state and it requires a full power cycle to reboot.
The problem is that once the ControlPoint (MC) sends a SetNext, the NAD renderer must drop info about bit depth or sample rate and screws up thereafter. If it never receives a SetNext, then it works super reliably.
So if in doubt about whether the issue is DSP studio or some other variable, you can reduce your chance of issues by changing the DLNA Controller Options for your Rendering device in the 'Now Playing' view and select the ‘Disable SetNext support’ option.
And since this is a thread about DSP studio I can happily report it works just fine to provide EQ on the tracks being served up to the NAD via L16/44 PCM over DLNA now that I disable SetNext.
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Following on to the discussion about renders that claim to support "SetNextAVTransportURI" and then have issues, my new renderer, the NAD D 7050, indicates it supports that, but then totally screws up the playback of subsequent tracks (when using PCM).
The first track will play just fine, then the second track will sound garbled and 'choppy', then the third track just emits clicks as if the sample rate or bit depth were totally off. The unit then is stuck in some bad state and it requires a full power cycle to reboot.
The problem is that once the ControlPoint (MC) sends a SetNext, the NAD renderer must drop info about bit depth or sample rate and screws up thereafter. If it never receives a SetNext, then it works super reliably.
So if in doubt about whether the issue is DSP studio or some other variable, you can reduce your chance of issues by changing the DLNA Controller Options for your Rendering device in the 'Now Playing' view and select the ‘Disable SetNext support’ option.
And since this is a thread about DSP studio I can happily report it works just fine to provide EQ on the tracks being served up to the NAD via L16/44 PCM over DLNA now that I disable SetNext.
^
Indeed. I think this is a NAD specific issue. (I seem to have read about it before somewhere). I am guessing that the NAD is trying to download both the now playing track and the next track concurrently. And it presumably gives the now playing track download a higher priority, and perhaps the next track download is not getting enough resources (CPU cycles, memory buffers, IP network resources, etc.) for it to work properly so that it ends up dropping samples, to enable it to (pretend to) keep up. Or something like that (frankly I am speculating)..
Anyway, in addition to the suggestion to Disable SetNext in MC, I do suggest you should report this issue to the manufacturer; it is quite likely that they may want to fix this..
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HI, I am just starting to play with the network capabilities of JRiver and wonder how to leverage DSD and DLNA to leverage the following. I want to setup a two computer setup. Both running JRiver. I would like my office PC to do all the computer and upsample all my album to DSD or DSD128 through the DSP tool, and then send the upsampled signal to the second computer (or stream to it) already in DSD format. That second computer sits in my audio system and is connected to a USB DAC.
With two JRiver (one on each computer) I was able to leverage accessing the library of the "office" PC from my audio system PC. However even if I choose the DSD option in the network menu to upsample to DSD on the main computer, the second computer only get the 44k signal. Am I going at this the wrong way (with accessing the library of the second computer)? I basically just want to stream upsampled DSD to my audio system music server which does not have the CPU power to do that work... Any insight is appreciated. Hope this is the right thread for this discussion! Jacques
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I'm now having the same issue, using a DLNA server I can't get the stream to process through the DSP. It says it's not running. It says that even with only the equalizer option checked. The settings are as described to work, "Specified output format" with PCM 24b, which does play on the renderer (Marantz SR 6010).
I'd really like to get volume leveling working...
Thanks.
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I'm now having the same issue, using a DLNA server I can't get the stream to process through the DSP. It says it's not running. It says that even with only the equalizer option checked. The settings are as described to work, "Specified output format" with PCM 24b, which does play on the renderer (Marantz SR 6010).
I'd really like to get volume leveling working...
Thanks.
You did the dsp studio settings IN the DLNA server configuration under Advanced?
If you have more than one DLNA server configured make sure the correct one is selected to output to the zone that represents your DLNA renderer (right-click on the zone and look at the DLNA option "Associate with DLNA Server"
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Almost everything is fine here with MC 22 as DLNA Server and active DSP. Apart from the Headphone DSP Setting. If I set "subtle", after leaving settings panel, this is always reset to "standard". Is there a way to avoid this?
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Almost everything is fine here with MC 22 as DLNA Server and active DSP. Apart from the Headphone DSP Setting. If I set "subtle", after leaving settings panel, this is always reset to "standard". Is there a way to avoid this?
Verified, checking into it.
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Thanks Bob, latest update 22.0.59 solved the problem!
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Resurrecting this topic from the dead :o :-[
Hello after reading both pages of this thread I'm not clear if all the previous DSP/DLNA/Convolution/Gapless...etc issues mentioned here have been resolved with the latest version of JRiver?
I'm intending to switch to JRiver from ROON so I can start using DSP convolution, Audiolense 5.x FIR filters but am hesitant to do so if all the previous issues have not been resolved yet since some of them are pretty fatal flaws if they still exist.
I will be using Win10 x64, ASIO USB Driver, Lynx Hilo and Audiolense 5.x initially which of course doesn't necessarily need DNLA but once I get my feet wet with that setup I am planning to then switch to an ETH connected Bricasti M5 DLNA Renderer. This is where the rubber will meet the road and where I will try to use the FIR Filters created with Audiolense with JRiver and serve them up via DLNA. The expectation is that everything will work, including gapless playback ;D
Can anyone confirm the status of the previous issues in this thread and if they feel the above proposed configuration may be problematic for what I am trying to achieve?
Thanks
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I have a best practice question on this topic.
if using a combination of DSP/DLNA and a hardware renderer that can perform some local equalisation, is there a preferred methodology of applying EQ?
Should I configure it via the JRiver DSP and flatten out the EQ on the receiver or is it just a matter of finding a balance? Bearing in mind the receiver talks to more than MC.
Thanks
Scobie
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I have a best practice question on this topic.
if using a combination of DSP/DLNA and a hardware renderer that can perform some local equalisation, is there a preferred methodology of applying EQ?
Should I configure it via the JRiver DSP and flatten out the EQ on the receiver or is it just a matter of finding a balance? Bearing in mind the receiver talks to more than MC.
Thanks
Scobie
I tend to do the EQ on the renderer, in my case mostly Id's
If I have a non-Id device that can't do EQ I create a second DLNA server for it and use DSP studio in that and associate that server with the non-Id renderer.
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Audio
Specified output format
PCM 24 bits
Advanced
Sample rate same as source
DSP Studio
From here, on every option on the left column, I get "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing".
And no effect on sound if I force equalization for example.
Having the exact same issue. Mac running JR23.
Every option says "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing"
Did you find a solution? Like you am keen to address volume levelling.
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Having the exact same issue. Mac running JR23.
Every option says "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing"
Did you find a solution? Like you am keen to address volume levelling.
Need more details.
What are you trying to play to?
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Hi Bob.
Files are on a Synology NAS. Mixture of FLAC, MP3 and WAV.
MC is on an iMac, also using JRemote. Latest versions of everything.
Trying to play to a Denon AVR-X2400H. It's playing (I am having issues with fast scrubbing) but I can't activate any of the DSP settings.
Cheers, Matt
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Hi Bob.
Files are on a Synology NAS. Mixture of FLAC, MP3 and WAV.
MC is on an iMac, also using JRemote. Latest versions of everything.
Trying to play to a Denon AVR-X2400H. It's playing (I am having issues with fast scrubbing) but I can't activate any of the DSP settings.
Cheers, Matt
Since you've been configuring the DLNA server I assumed you went into the DSP studio under the Advanced part of the DLNA server audio settings to make the settings for your DLNA device?
That's where the setting for Volume leveling and output format are.
The DSP studio button on MC's main page is only for playback though local zones.
Also, I assume you are accessing the files on your NAS as files, not as a DLNA server under Playing Now->Playing from, correct?
The reason I ask is if you connect to the NAS as a DLNA server, when you push the files to the renderer from MC they will be coming from the NAS, not MC so the DSP studio effects can't be applied.
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Since you've been configuring the DLNA server I assumed you went into the DSP studio under the Advanced part of the DLNA server audio settings to make the settings for your DLNA device?
That's where the setting for Volume leveling and output format are.
The DSP studio button on MC's main page is only for playback though local zones.
Yes, that's what I've been doing.
None of the options are available to me when configuring the DNLA server.
Every option says "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing"
Also, I assume you are accessing the files on your NAS as files, not as a DLNA server under Playing Now->Playing from, correct?
No, I am accessing from "Main Library".
The reason I ask is if you connect to the NAS as a DLNA server, when you push the files to the renderer from MC they will be coming from the NAS, not MC so the DSP studio effects can't be applied.
I don't think I am accessing them from the NAS, see above.
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https://imgur.com/cIree5t
https://imgur.com/OHoH2xW
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That configuration looks right.
You won't see the DSP studio settings while playing to the renderer, that is only for local zones as I said.
You can prove it's working by doing something extreme like enabling the equalizer and turning the bass all the way up and everything else all the way down.
You might want to check your files to see if MC has analyzed them for volume leveling. Looks at tags or show that field in the detailed files display.
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No, nothing :(
https://imgur.com/wAO2bY2
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Oh, hang on. When the next track started to play the pitch and tempo was off.
All audio has been analysed.
Might have cracked it thanks :)
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i would love to try out these features, but my ISP sends a different IP adress for my router via cellular than they send via the inhouse router which Mediacenter obviously uses. So whilst inhouse everything works perfectly no way i can connect other than direct wifi. Is there anyway i can tell Mediacenter to use the IP address my ISP sends via cellular?
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i would love to try out these features, but my ISP sends a different IP adress for my router via cellular than they send via the inhouse router which Mediacenter obviously uses. So whilst inhouse everything works perfectly no way i can connect other than direct wifi. Is there anyway i can tell Mediacenter to use the IP address my ISP sends via cellular?
What are you trying to connect to your MC with?
JRemote,
Gizmo,
?
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I currently run JRiver on a Dell Deskop with Windows 10 and use it to play music at my desk while working.
I would like to connect it to my home audio system which includes a Marantz Receiver in the basement and a Denon in the den. Both are connected to my home network via wireless. Both are DLNA capable.
I have used Sonos in the past but sold that stuff in a recent move and would like to avoid using it again.
What information there is with the receivers is spotty abpout networking. I'm pretty well versed with computers in general but know very little about sound other than the file formats for music.
Is there a straightforward way to accomplish this so I can turn on my stero system and tell it to import music off my computer using JRiver?
Thanks.
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Welcome. The wiki has topics on Media Network and DLNA. You could start there and then ask questions here if you get stuck.
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It's a go ! ;D
I have deleted my previous messages as they are irrelevant.
I tried the same Linux device, this time with a different software package called Volumio (which is a Linux player based on MPD), with UPNP enabled.
It will play all formats with DSP enabled, including (surprise !!) M4A files at 192/24 rates.
I'm impressed !
Yair
Would you or somebody else share the actual settings to get it work. I tried many different settings and it has not worked for me. Thank you. David
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Would you or somebody else share the actual settings to get it work. I tried many different settings and it has not worked for me. Thank you. David
Can you give us some more information about what device you are trying to play to?
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I somehow missed this message. As a shared experience, I reported that I got DSP partially worked under DLNA server mode. I used DLNA/network approach. Under DLNA server window, under Audio, chose specified output format only when necessary. Under advanced setting, checked all the format except the high res format such did and SACD. Under DSP studio window, check the output format box. In sample rate selection, I have chosen the rate 4 times of the original rate. I can see all the files have upsampled properly. I can identified the rate by sending streaming signal to a Mutec USB 3+ reclocker, which also has a decoding capability of DSD up to 256. I really wish to make DSD in DoP mode to convert all the nine high-res format. Unfortunately it does not work. I am using SOtM sMS 200 as a rendrrer. (May from SOtM is always very helpful). I have been using a switch/WiFi router to connect hard disk, MacBook with MC, and sMS 200, by various combination of USB, Ethernet or WiFi connection. To my ear, the best sound comes from the complete WiFi approach, followed by the so-called “the bridged” approach. All other approach always give a sense of glare at tremble, more or less. “The bridged” still bears some glare but also provide the excitement. But I like more realistic sound coming from WiFi. I thought “the bridged” approach make make the DSD over DoP work because I felt MacBook is in the loop in this configuration. Unfortunately it does not.
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Hello, using MC26 on an i7 server. Bel Canto Streamer set as DLNA device. Playback of audio working fine.
In Media Network access to DSP Studio, I have convolution filters and Home Audio Fidelity’s Room Shaper VST enabled. Set for both to process independent of internal volume.
But, I can tell by the sound that neither is working. I’ve rebooted MC26 multiple times but to no avail. What am I off on here? Thanks. JCR
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No idea. Sorry.
Try a search here for "DSP over DLNA".
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Hmm, JimH, there is an entire topic stream in Interact here at the top called DLNA and DSP. Almost all relates to MC22 and older. The concerns were either like mine, that DSP processing doesn’t occur over DLNA, which of course is what JRiver specifically purports to offer, or that playback over DLNA isn’t gapless (apparently fixed around MC23).
Don’t others on this forum use a streamer over DLNA and apply DSP to the playback through JRiver? I’m shocked that there’s such a dearth of commentary or solutions from all. JCR
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I'm sorry, but I can't help. Maybe someone else can.
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I’m just saying that I know the convolution filters are good because they do work in Roon. But, I want them to work in MC26. JCR
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It would be good to test without DLNA. Just to be sure it works at all.
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Using a USB connected DAC and DSP Studio under Tools/Options/Settings, both convolution filters and Room Shaper are working fine. So, this is a strictly a problem with JRiver’s DSP engine over DLNA. Further thoughts? JCR
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Try without the VST.
Then try without the convolution.
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Doesn’t work for either one that way. I should also note that Output Format (downconverting files over 192000 to that or 176400) doesn’t work in DLNA. JCR
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Are you sure you're using the right DLNA server?
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Yes, it plays audio out just fine. Absolutely, it’s my Bel Canto streamer. When I go into Media Network, I specifically select the Bel Canto unit for the DSP Studio. JCR
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Jim, here are two screenshots of MC26 playing the same track — one over DLNA on the Bel Canto, and one via USB ASIO, being my multichannel DAC. As you can see, convolution and Room Shaper both function for the USB DAC, but not for the DLNA one. JCR
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Not the Renderer. The DLNA Server. You can have multiple Servers under Media Network. DSP can be different for each.
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Not sure what you are saying, Jim. USB works, DLNA does not. What should I do? JCR
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Read about DLNA Servers in the first post of this thread:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,92801.msg639187.html#msg639187
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Note that each DLNA server you configure in MC can have it's own DSP studio settings. They are NOT related to the DSP studio settings for local playback.
Look in your DLNA server configuration.
Also note that you must set the format to be served to one of the PCM formats because the only way the effects can be applied is if the material to be played is decoded.
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Completely understood, Bob. Set DSP Studio in the DLNA for the Bel Canto streamer and not the Audio settings DSP Studio. That’s the way I’ve been doing it. See photos. Doesn’t process anyway. JCR
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Completely understood, Bob. Set DSP Studio in the DLNA for the Bel Canto streamer and not the Audio settings DSP Studio. That’s the way I’ve been doing it. See photos. Doesn’t process anyway. JCR
Looks good assuming you are using that server.
We'll setup a test and look at it next week.
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Excellent, thanks in advance for the help, Bob. JCR
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Bob, what kind of test did you have in mind? JCR
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Bob, checking in again here.
Everyone at JRiver stay healthy! JCR
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Hi Bob. Looking for your assistance again here. Thanks. JCR
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I'm running into the exact same issue. Trying to get a convolution filter to work on audio sent from MC as the UPnP/DLNA server. No dice.
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Here is the audio path information for local playback and DLNA playback. Same convolution filter selected in the DSP area. I also included a screenshot of the DSP section for my DLNA server. I only have a single one configured. I notice it says not valid, but that happens in the local DSP section as well until I start playing something.
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I just tried to debug this. I setup a zone, configured it to use Convolution, set my ID to play from that zone, and when I played I could watch the debugger coming to the Convolution code no problem. So for me it seems to be working.
Can you think of anything else that might be special we should test?
Thanks.
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I just tried to debug this. I setup a zone, configured it to use Convolution, set my ID to play from that zone, and when I played I could watch the debugger coming to the Convolution code no problem. So for me it seems to be working.
Can you think of anything else that might be special we should test?
Thanks.
I'm sitting at my PC and trying to send audio to an Ethernet connected DAC. Can you try such a combination?
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I'll add this logging statement to the next build:
CConvolutionDSPPlugin::Process
It will say either:
Convolution applied
or
Convolution not applied
If it doesn't output at all, we've got a different problem.
Thanks for the help.
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I'll add this logging statement to the next build:
CConvolutionDSPPlugin::Process
It will say either:
Convolution applied
or
Convolution not applied
If it doesn't output at all, we've got a different problem.
Thanks for the help.
Excellent.
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Just sent you an email.
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Matt, as you can note above, I have the same problem as Chris. My screenshots show a USB DAC successfully using convolution and my Bel Canto Streamer not being successful. Will you kindly include me in the offline testing as well? jrobbins50 at gmail. Thanks. JCR
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Matt, as you can note above, I have the same problem as Chris. My screenshots show a USB DAC successfully using convolution and my Bel Canto Streamer not being successful. Will you kindly include me in the offline testing as well? jrobbins50 at gmail. Thanks. JCR
What Matt and Chris discovered is that the engine IS being used for DLNA devices BUT you won't see that on the Audio Path info since that's not used when playing to remote Zones.
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Hi Guys - Bob is correct. I was testing MC's convolution filter for DLNA zones and using a DAC that wasn't connected to any analog outputs. Once testing was complete, I would move to a fully operational system. During my testing it appeared that MC wasn't applying the convolution filter because it said the MC audio engine wasn't in use and the audio path was empty as opposed to when using a local zone.
Matt had me log what was going on and there I could see that indeed the convolution was being applied. I moved this to my main system and certainly could hear the benefits of the convolution filter.
That said, given that MC is using its convolution engine for playback, it's my belief that this should be indicated in the audio path window for DLNA zones. Just my two cents.
Thanks Matt and Bob!
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Completely understood, Bob. Set DSP Studio in the DLNA for the Bel Canto streamer and not the Audio settings DSP Studio. That’s the way I’ve been doing it. See photos. Doesn’t process anyway. JCR
Hi, I have similar issue with my DAC (DLNA renderer). As you can see in the attached picture, I cannot set even a simple equalizer.
Did I miss something?
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Hi, I have similar issue with my DAC (DLNA renderer). As you can see in the attached picture, I cannot set even a simple equalizer.
Did I miss something?
It looks like you are setting it.
I've done this many times and the EQ is the easiest one to prove it's working. Just try some outrageous setting.
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Hi Bob,
no, unfortunately no. I have set it, while playing, and it's not working. See the message "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing". Playback is not stopped, so it seems that it asserts that 'current playback doesn't support processing'.
I have tried many combinations. I also tried setting it up, closing jriver, restarting, and nothing, no results.
thanks in advance,
Isidoro
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It looks like you are setting it.
I've done this many times and the EQ is the easiest one to prove it's working. Just try some outrageous setting.
Hi Bob,
Could you help me? I don't know what to do to resolve the issue anymore. The EQ, or any other dsp filter, is not applied.
Isidoro
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Hi Bob,
no, unfortunately no. I have set it, while playing, and it's not working. See the message "Playback stopped or current playback doesn't support processing". Playback is not stopped, so it seems that it asserts that 'current playback doesn't support processing'.
I have tried many combinations. I also tried setting it up, closing jriver, restarting, and nothing, no results.
thanks in advance,
Isidoro
That message is NOT applicable to DLNA, you CAN'T see the processing that's being done in that information window!
You might want to wait until the next build, we are hooking up the audio processing information so that what's happening will be shown for DLNA zones as well.
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That message is NOT applicable to DLNA, you CAN'T see the processing that's being done in that information window!
You might want to wait until the next build, we are hooking up the audio processing information so that what's happening will be shown for DLNA zones as well.
Hi Bob,
I see the message selecting Media Network -> Add or configure DLNA servers -> Advanced -> DSP studio. So, are you saying that that message is not DLNA related?
Anyway the EQ is not working. No audible effect. Can you confirm that it shouldn't be this way?
Thank you,
Isidoro
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Hi Bob,
I see the message selecting Media Network -> Add or configure DLNA servers -> Advanced -> DSP studio. So, are you saying that that message is not DLNA related?
Anyway the EQ is not working. No audible effect. Can you confirm that it shouldn't be this way?
Thank you,
Isidoro
The CONFIGURATION for the EQ under the DLNA server options is correct.
You MUST also choose "specified output format" for the audio option and choose a format your device can play.
That said, with current builds you WILL HAVE NO INDICATION that the DSP is being applied to a DLNA output stream.
You will need to wait until the next release to see that processing reflected in the audiopath information (by the gear).
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The CONFIGURATION for the EQ under the DLNA server options is correct.
You MUST also choose "specified output format" for the audio option and choose a format your device can play.
That said, with current builds you WILL HAVE NO INDICATION that the DSP is being applied to a DLNA output stream.
You will need to wait until the next release to see that processing reflected in the audiopath information (by the gear).
Thank you Bob,
I undertsood what I must do for applying DSP effects to DLNA served files. The online help and your first post in this thread is absolutely clear about it, and I have done exactly that (see my previuos picture).
I'm not interested to SEE the processing in the audiopath. I'm interested to HEAR the DSP effect. And I cannot HEAR it. This is my problem.
Does the next release addresses this?
Bye,
Isidoro
P.S.: I know very well my device. I designed, developed and built it (see https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/307221-clearpath-ess-dac-project.html)
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Thank you Bob,
I undertsood what I must do for applying DSP effects to DLNA served files. The online help and your first post in this thread is absolutely clear about it, and I have done exactly that (see my previuos picture).
I'm not interested to SEE the processing in the audiopath. I'm interested to HEAR the DSP effect. And I cannot HEAR it. This is my problem.
Does the next release addresses this?
Bye,
Isidoro
In the next release, if you can see the processing happening in the audio path, this is a big step forward because you'll know MC is applying the DSP. If it doesn't appear in the audio path, then there's a different issue.
It's clear you want it to work. I don't think getting upset will help anyone resolve your issue quicker.
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In the next release, if you can see the processing happening in the audio path, this is a big step forward because you'll know MC is applying the DSP. If it doesn't appear in the audio path, then there's a different issue.
It's clear you want it to work. I don't think getting upset will help anyone resolve your issue quicker.
I didn't get upset. I just wanted make sure that Bob got the point, since my unclear words could lead to misunderstandings. So I'm looking forward to Bob's reply.
Regards,
Isidoro
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Hi Bob,
I have new info about the issue. I would like to share it with you, with the sole purpose of hoping that it will be useful in solving the problem. Ignore it if it is not.
I observed a strange behaviour. I defined a new DLNA server, name it 'B', with the same settings of the default one ('A'). Setting any of DSP effects in 'B' and then switching the DAC zone to 'B', I can hear the dsp effect. But any new change to 'B' settings have no audible consequences. Modifying at this point the DSP settings of the original 'A' and switching the zone to 'A', again I can hear the new DSP settings, and so on.
In other words, it seems that I need, at any new changes to DSP settings, to switch the DAC zone between two DLNA server in order to hear them.
Regards,
Isidoro
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Hi Bob,
I have new info about the issue. I would like to share it with you, with the sole purpose of hoping that it will be useful in solving the problem. Ignore it if it is not.
I observed a strange behaviour. I defined a new DLNA server, name it 'B', with the same settings of the default one ('A'). Setting the DSP effect in 'B' and then switching the DAC zone to 'B', I can hear the dsp effect. But any new change to 'B' settings have no audible consequences. Modifying at this point the DSP settings of the original 'A' and switching the zone to 'A', again I can hear the new DSP settings, and so on.
In other words, it seems that I need, at any new changes to DSP settings, to switch the DAC zone between two DLNA server in order to hear them.
Regards,
Isidoro
I think we discovered an issue with when the DSP EQ settings are saved and this seems like it might fit in with that. It should be fixed in the next build so try that when it comes out.
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Please forgive me if this is covered elsewhere in the forum, but I haven't really seen it addressed for the current MC version.
I have been told by a few people that my Topping D90 DAC really shines when fed files converted to DSD256. It handles DSD files natively just fine over MC26 DLNA using the preconfigured 24bit audiophile DLNA server, but my plan is to convert mp3, FLAC, and 24bit FLAC files to DSD256 so they also will stream as DSD.
Unfortunately, the only way that I can play anything to the DAC is via DLNA because I have it connected to a Sonore microrendu rather than to the USB port on my computer. While there is an ASIO driver for the DAC, I'm not using it for playback to it.
I have tried to create new DLNA servers with almost every combination of the following settings: Mode: specified output; format: 16L, 16bit, or 24bit; Advanced: Studio DSP 2xDSD Native or 2xDSD DoP; Bitstream DSD checked or unchecked.
I have no problem getting files of all sorts - except native DSD! - to play over DLNA with any combination of these settings, but (1) they retain their original file formats, according to my DAC's readout, and (2) 1xDSD won't play at all.
Maybe I am trying to accomplish something that MC 26 can't do, but, if anyone has gotten universal DSD conversion to work over DLNA without shutting down the native DSD files, I would love to know how to achieve the same result. Thanks.
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Please forgive me if this is covered elsewhere in the forum, but I haven't really seen it addressed for the current MC version.
I have been told by a few people that my Topping D90 DAC really shines when fed files converted to DSD256. It handles DSD files natively just fine over MC26 DLNA using the preconfigured 24bit audiophile DLNA server, but my plan is to convert mp3, FLAC, and 24bit FLAC files to DSD256 so they also will stream as DSD.
Unfortunately, the only way that I can play anything to the DAC is via DLNA because I have it connected to a Sonore microrendu rather than to the USB port on my computer. While there is an ASIO driver for the DAC, I'm not using it for playback to it.
I have tried to create new DLNA servers with almost every combination of the following settings: Mode: specified output; format: 16L, 16bit, or 24bit; Advanced: Studio DSP 2xDSD Native or 2xDSD DoP; Bitstream DSD checked or unchecked.
I have no problem getting files of all sorts - except native DSD! - to play over DLNA with any combination of these settings, but (1) they retain their original file formats, according to my DAC's readout, and (2) 1xDSD won't play at all.
Maybe I am trying to accomplish something that MC 26 can't do, but, if anyone has gotten universal DSD conversion to work over DLNA without shutting down the native DSD files, I would love to know how to achieve the same result. Thanks.
You can't convert TO DSD, that's not a streamable format.
When you turn on DoP in the DLNA server options, and you DON'T have DSD set to convert, your DSD will be streamed DoP.
If your DAC can't handle DoP that won't play.
If you can't play DSD natively, it's possible the mimetype isn't to the liking of your DAC. You can fiddle with the mimetype, there are posts here related to modifying that.
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Thanks, Bob.
I can see I wasn't entirely clear. I CAN play native DSD when I use the default 24bit server.
I only am unable to play native DSD files when I set DSP to play everything as DSD.
In those cases, everything else plays, albeit not as DSD. From your response, though, I can see that I can't stream converted files as native DSD, so I have been trying to do the impossible.
My DAC can play both native DSD and DoP.
I can continue to use the 24bit server, which plays everything in its original format, whether mp3, FLAC, or DSD.
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Thanks, Bob.
I can see I wasn't entirely clear. I CAN play native DSD when I use the default 24bit server.
I only am unable to play native DSD files when I set DSP to play everything as DSD.
In those cases, everything else plays, albeit not as DSD. From your response, though, I can see that I can't stream converted files as native DSD, so I have been trying to do the impossible.
My DAC can play both native DSD and DoP.
I can continue to use the 24bit server, which plays everything in its original format, whether mp3, FLAC, or DSD.
Thanks for reporting that. That option in DSP studio should be disabled when it's used for DLNA.
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You can't convert TO DSD, that's not a streamable format.
Really cannot understand ....
.... if I can stream original dsd to dlna renderer why shouldn’t be possible to upsample to dsd and then stream the result to dlna renderer?
Not clear at all for me .....
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Really cannot understand ....
.... if I can stream original dsd to dlna renderer why shouldn’t be possible to upsample to dsd and then stream the result to dlna renderer?
Not clear at all for me .....
Simple, DSD is not a format that can be streamed while being converted.
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Simple, DSD is not a format that can be streamed while being converted.
Hi Bob, is there a reason you guys choose not to enable converting and streaming DSD?
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Hi Bob, is there a reason you guys choose not to enable converting and streaming DSD?
You can't generate a content-length in advance.
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How do you think it is done in Audirvana and Roon? I don’t think they are some kind of wizard ...
As I could read elsewhere...
“ So the raw DSD audio signal output from JRiver's DSP Studio has to be packaged into:
either one of the (DSF or DFF) DSD audio file formats;
or DoP as raw 24-bit LPCM;
or DoP packaged in a lossless LPCM file format, so WAV, FLAC, etc.
It is the packaging part that is missing.”
Is it so difficult?
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Please allow me to request that MC27 have the ability to use DSP to convert and serve files as DSD256.
I own Audirvana and am on a Roon trial. Both applications convert files on the fly to DSD 256 for DLNA streaming. To say that my two DACs love that processed DSD signal is an understatement. They sound marvelous.
At the same time, I despise the file management capabilities and interfaces of both Audirvana and Roon. I also like their remotes a bit less than EOS, JRemote and JRemote2. I find now that I am using JRiver as much as I ever did for metadata editing and artwork retrieval, but then using the other two applications for playback.
A MediaCenter 27 that can upsample to DSD256 for DLNA streaming would be the only player I'd need and use. Please!
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Can you not do that right now by setting DSP Studio > Output Format > Output Encoding to 4xDSD then sending that?
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Can you not do that right now by setting DSP Studio > Output Format > Output Encoding to 4xDSD then sending that?
No. Not over DLNA. I can and used to do it over USB to my DAC using an ASIO driver.
When I set up a new DLNA server that includes DSP, the upsampling to DSD option is not grayed out, so I select it. Unfortunately, selecting that option does nothing actually to upsample PCM files and it prevents native DSD files from playing altogether.
Because JRiver doesn't upsample streamed files to DSD over DLNA, the DSP Studio setup options for DLNA servers should not include DSD upsampling options on the pick list. They should be grayed out or suppressed for users setting up DLNA rather than ASIO connections.
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You can't generate a content-length in advance.
You had a couple of ideas to get around this for generally for Streaming, which I suspect would work for DLNA as well.
There are a couple of different ways to do the kludge and I think I'll do the one I didn't start down the path on.
I can see why the playlist items aren't getting transcoded, essentially the playlist itself would need to be re-written when sent.
While converting? They are converting something else to DSD and creating a fully seekable stream? To be able to do that you have to generate the content-length in advance while the file is in the process of being converted.
Maybe its time to implement a solution, even if it means that the playback isn't fully seekable?
Mike, is playback seekable when converting to DSD and streaming via DLNA in Roon and/or Audirvana? While Bob and JRiver might want to implement playback the correct way, maybe this is the compromise that is required. Particularly if the solution the other applications use has the same limitation. That is, playback is not seekable.
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Roderick, thank you for your leadership on this issue. Unfortunately, my understanding of these processes is limited enough that I don't know what "seekable" playback means. Please let me know what I need to look for in Roon and Audirvana and I will let you know how they handle things.
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Seekable just means that you can move forward and backward in the playing Track using the Progress Bar in the application.
When an application doesn't know the content-length of the playing media, jumping forward and backward can either be very inaccurate, difficult, or impossible. It depends on the format of the file as well as the application and the DLNA Renderer, I believe. It isn't as simple as telling the Renderer to jump forward or backward 2 minutes. I think such jumps are done by percentage or similar. There has been some discussion on this in the past, but I don't recall the technical details.
Anyway, "Fully Seekable" means that you can seek (jump) to any part of the media file at any time, accurately. If seeking is inaccurate you may try to jump ahead 1 minute, and end up 15 minutes ahead, or just at the end of the currently buffered data. Or you may try to jump ahead to halfway through the file, but end up just a short time ahead of the current position.
Some other applications just set the content-length to the maximum value allowed, which can be 4 hours, for example. So if you have a 4 minute file which is still being converted for streaming via DLNA, and the content-length is set to 4 hours, and you jump from near the beginning to what you think will be 2 minutes into the file (halfway on the Progress Bar), the application may just move to the 2 minute position relative to the 4 hour content-length, so (2x60 seconds / 4x60x60 second) x 4x60 seconds = 2 seconds. You try to jump 2 minutes ahead and only jump 2 seconds ahead.
I may be completely wrong in the details, but it is something like that.
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Thanks for the explanation.
I listen mostly to instrumental jazz, so I may not be the very best tester for this, but, as far as I can tell, Roon is fully seekable and Audirvana is not. With Roon, the progress bar stays put and plays from the selected spot when you advance it or move it backwards. With Audirvana, the progress bar can't be advanced beyond the apparent buffer and it won't stay to where you drag it when you back it up. I can do more testing if there's something specific I should try out.
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Audirvana uses DLNA, Roon does not.
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Chris I thought that Audirvana uses something proprietary, which is why, unlike JRiver, it won't show up as a server in a plain vanilla DLNA controller app. Is that not the case?
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It may change the way it is seen by DLNA controllers, but it must use DLNA if it's to send audio to DLNA renderers. Roon uses RAAT and can't send audio to DLNA devices.
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Thanks. Makes sense.
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DSD format option for DLNA in the next build of MC27.
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Finally! Is DSD x2, x4 and x8 coming too?
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Finally! Is DSD x2, x4 and x8 coming too?
Perhaps. We'll see if this gets any use first.
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Just trying now on 27.066 ... wonderful job bob! I’ll upgrade my MC26 soon.
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DSD format option for DLNA in the next build of MC27.
I am not having luck getting this to stream files as dsd.
i added a new DLNA server and entitled it ”DSP.”
Mode is Specified Output Format.
Format is DSF.
Advanced is DSP Studio.
Studio Output Encoding is 4xDSD native.
Yet, DAC only shows file’s original PCM bit depth and sample rate. (Roon and Audirvana streamed DSD show as “DSD“ on same DAC.)
What am I doing incorrectly?
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[Deleted.]
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DLNA DSD upsampling is limited to DSD64 as described in the change log
.
27.0.61 (2/4/2021)
........
7. NEW: DLNA conversion to DSD (dsf 1x)
.........
and ... (maybe a silly question) have you checked OUTPUT FORMAT?
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DLNA DSD upsampling is limited to DSD64 as described in the change log
.
27.0.61 (2/4/2021)
........
7. NEW: DLNA conversion to DSD (dsf 1x)
.........
and ... (maybe a silly question) have you checked OUTPUT FORMAT?
D'oh! I am an idiot. Not only does the changelog say this, but so do the posts right above mine!
Thanks! I will try DSD64. (And, yes, I did change the format box.)
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This is native DSD, not DoPE.
I don't believe the DSP studio setting of output format in the DLNA server here will have any effect and if it does it's probably negative.
It works fine playing to a MC renderer.
If your DAC won't play it you may have a mimetype issue whic you may or may not be able to fix by messing with the fileassociations.xml.
Renderers aren't consistent about what they expect for dsf mimetype.
MC as a renderer will accept
audio/x-dsf
audio/x-dsd
audio/dsd
and
audio/dsf
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This is native DSD, not DoPE.
I don't believe the DSP studio setting of output format in the DLNA server here will have any effect and if it does it's probably negative.
It works fine playing to a MC renderer.
If your DAC won't play it you may have a mimetype issue whic you may or may not be able to fix by messing with the fileassociations.xml.
Renderers aren't consistent about what they expect for dsf mimetype.
MC as a renderer will accept
audio/x-dsf
audio/x-dsd
audio/dsd
and
audio/dsf
Thanks, Bob. After I set the output to 1x and remembered to link the streamer to this new DLNA server, I got this up and running.
I had the format box checked because that seems to be the default. Are you suggesting that I uncheck it?
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Just tried deselecting Output Format in DSP Studio and it works too.
... but I have to admit that being able to select Output Format after selecting Format: DSF is a bit confusing ... isn't it?
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I am enjoying the upsampling to DSD64, but have run into a consistent repeatable snag: I can play FLAC files with the DSP DLNA server but I can't play mp3's or m4a's now at all. When I try to play them, the progress bar moves for about five seconds but then just stops. No music is audible. Going back to FLAC, I can hear music just fine, so the lossy files aren't crashing out the server.
The vast preponderance of my library is FLAC or DSD, but I also have lots of mp3 and m4a material that only has been available as digital downloads from emusic, Apple, Google or Amazon. Obviously, I would like to be able to play that as well.
Please let me know if there's something I need to do to configure playback of lossy files with this version of the DLNA server. (Per Bob's comment, I have deselected "Output Format" in DSP Studio.)
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I am enjoying the upsampling to DSD64, but have run into a consistent repeatable snag: I can play FLAC files with the DSP DLNA server but I can't play mp3's or m4a's now at all. When I try to play them, the progress bar moves for about five seconds but then just stops. No music is audible. Going back to FLAC, I can hear music just fine, so the lossy files aren't crashing out the server.
The vast preponderance of my library is FLAC or DSD, but I also have lots of mp3 and m4a material that only has been available as digital downloads from emusic, Apple, Google or Amazon. Obviously, I would like to be able to play that as well.
Please let me know if there's something I need to do to configure playback of lossy files with this version of the DLNA server. (Per Bob's comment, I have deselected "Output Format" in DSP Studio.)
Just tested and this works fine for me with both mp3 and mp4 lossy or lossless playing to an Id, using Specified output format. It should also work find to do the Specified format as necessary with mp3 and mp4 unselected to play them without upsampling.
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Just tested and this works fine for me with both mp3 and mp4 lossy or lossless playing to an Id, using Specified output format. It should also work find to do the Specified format as necessary with mp3 and mp4 unselected to play them without upsampling.
Hmmm. I continue to have no luck playing the lossless files to either of two Sonore rendus.
When you say "specified output format," are you referring to the first box in DSP Studio or something else? If you refer to that, I have confirmed that it makes no difference whether that is checked when I try to play lossy files.
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In order to play mp3 files with DSF format selected I need to uncheck mp3 from Advanced/Audio formats to convert but I can play m4a (alac) files.
I don't have any aac file to test
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Hmmm. I continue to have no luck playing the lossless files to either of two Sonore rendus.
When you say "specified output format," are you referring to the first box in DSP Studio or something else? If you refer to that, I have confirmed that it makes no difference whether that is checked when I try to play lossy files.
Not in DSP studio, in the DLNA server configuration for Audio as in Stefano_mbp's post above.
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Thanks, gentlemen.
I have tried every permutation of "specified output" and "specified output when necessary," mp3 and m4a both checked and unchecked (when using "specified output when necessary," as it's grayed out with "specified output"), and "output format" in DSP Studio both checked and unchecked.
The results are 100% consistent:
(1). I cannot play lossy file types at all unless I exclude them from DSP processing. More specifically, (a) when I have "specified output" checked or (b) when I have "specified output when necessary" checked with lossy file types not excluded, I cannot get them to play at all. I get five seconds of silence on the progress bar and then nothing.
(2). In contrast, when I have "specified output when necessary" checked with lossy file types excluded (unchecked), I can get them to play, but, obviously, not as DSD.
(3). Lossless does play as DSD when the renderer is bound to the DSP DLNA server, regardless of whether format is "specified output" or "specified output when necessary."
(4). Checking or unchecking "Output format" in DSP Studio doesn't alter any of the preceding results.
This all tells me that JRiver actually hasn't figured out how to upsample mp3 and m4a to DSD or there's a bug showing up in my particular usage.
The only devices I have on the network that can handle native DSD are Sonore Signature Rendu SE/Wyred 4 Sound 10th Anniversary DAC and Sonore UltraRendu/Topping D90 combinations. The results are consistent between both renderer/DAC combinations. The two Sonores use basically the same board, so perhaps there is something about those components that makes JRiver unable to feed upsampled lossy.
On the other hand, I have just re-verified that, with either renderer/DAC set, mp3 and m4a do play as DSD when upsampled to DSD64 in Audirvana and Roon. (They also upsample to DSD128 and DSD256 with Audirvana and Roon. I haven't yet tried DSD512, however, out of fear that I will cook my CPU. DSD256 is a pretty heavy processing load.)
I really would like to get JRiver DSD upsampling to work with my entire library, especially when you get up to DSD256, at which the Topping D90 really shines. If I can make that happen, I'd abandon both Audirvana and Roon and would convert my NUC to a dedicated Linux JRiver server box rather than run JRiver on my desktop Dell as i do now.
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Thanks, gentlemen.
I have tried every permutation of "specified output" and "specified output when necessary," mp3 and m4a both checked and unchecked (when using "specified output when necessary," as it's grayed out with "specified output"), and "output format" in DSP Studio both checked and unchecked.
The results are 100% consistent:
(1). I cannot play lossy file types at all unless I exclude them from DSP processing. More specifically, when I have "specified output" checked or (b) when I have "specified output when necessary" checked with lossy file types not excluded, I cannot get them to play at all. I get five seconds on the progress bar and then nothing.
(2). In contrast, when I have "specified output when necessary" checked with lossy file types excluded (unchecked), I can get them to play, but, obviously, not as DSD.
(3). Lossless does play as DSD when the renderer is bound to the DSP DLNA server, regardless of whether format is "specified output" or "specified output when necessary."
(4). Checking or unchecking "Output format" in DSP Studio doesn't alter any of the preceding results.
This all tells me that JRiver actually hasn't figured out how to upsample mp3 and m4a to DSD or there's a bug showing up in my particular usage.
The only devices I have on the network that can handle native DSD are Sonore Signature Rendu SE/Wyred 4 Sound 10th Anniversary DAC and Sonore UltraRendu/Topping D90 combinations. The results are consistent between both renderer/DAC combinations. The two Sonores use basically the same board, so perhaps there is something about those components that makes JRiver unable to feed upsampled lossy.
On the other hand, I have just re-verified that, with either renderer/DAC set, mp3 and m4a do play as DSD when upsampled to DSD64 in Audirvana and Roon. (They also upsample to DSD128 and DSD256 with Audirvana and Roon. I haven't yet tried DSD512, however, out of fear that I will cook my CPU. DSD256 is a pretty heavy processing load.)
I really would like to get JRiver DSD upsampling to work with my entire library, especially when you get up to DSD256, at which the Topping D90 really shines. If I can make that happen, I'd abandon both Audirvana and Roon and would convert my NUC to a dedicated Linux JRiver server box rather than run JRiver on my desktop Dell as i do now.
Thanks for the detailed feedback.
Since they play for me upsampled with an Id I can only assume that there is a piece of information that's not in the content directory when playing mp3 upsampled that the Id doesn't need and your devices do.
Will give that a look when possible (not this week).
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Thanks for the detailed feedback.
Since they play for me upsampled with an Id I can only assume that there is a piece of information that's not in the content directory when playing mp3 upsampled that the Id doesn't need and your devices do.
Will give that a look when possible (not this week).
Thank you, Bob. I look forward to hearing what you learn. Please let me know if I can furnish more information.
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Is Convolution in DLNA supposed to be gapless by now? Because when I enable Convolution instead of PEQ, songs are no longer gapless with my ultraRendu.
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Was hoping that MC28 would upconvert beyond DSD64 for streaming. It doesn’t seem to. Further, it still won’t upconvert mp3’s at all, at least in my system.
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Was hoping that MC28 would upconvert beyond DSD64 for streaming. It doesn’t seem to. Further, it still won’t upconvert mp3’s at all, at least in my system.
I don't seem to have any DSD capable DACs other than software ones like MC. Unfortunately my Oppo 103 which can play DSD via USB doesn't support it over DLNA.
If you you setup wireshark on your computer and do a trace of the interaction with one of your renderers and email that to me, I'll take a look and see if I can see something useful. Start wireshark with the IP address of your renderer as the filter (host ip 1.2.3.4 for example) just before you send the track to the renderer and stop wireshark as soon as it fails which will generate the smallest possible trace.
bob (at) jriver (dot) com
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Thanks, Bob. I will try to figure out how to do that and will forward results.
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Thanks, Bob. I will try to figure out how to do that and will forward results.
I think we found something so you can wait a bit to do all of that...
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I can send audio to a renderer and have it use the MC convolution engine. However, if I use a different control point, with MC as the server, audio doesn't route through the DSP settings.
Can this be changed?
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As a follow up, I want to use a new control point for iOS that has built-in support for Tidal and Qobuz, and use MC as the DLNA server for local files. If MC can route audio through its DSP engine, even if the audio is selected for playback with this new control point, it would be a fantastic solution. I can still use MC on my desktop for everything it does, and use it as the DLNA server elsewhere.
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As a follow up, I want to use a new control point for iOS that has built-in support for Tidal and Qobuz, and use MC as the DLNA server for local files. If MC can route audio through its DSP engine, even if the audio is selected for playback with this new control point, it would be a fantastic solution. I can still use MC on my desktop for everything it does, and use it as the DLNA server elsewhere.
That really should work because the DSP is server based not zone based.
Make sure your controller is using the correct MC server if you have more than one.
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That really should work because the DSP is server based not zone based.
Make sure your controller is using the correct MC server if you have more than one.
I only have a single MC zone.
When I play audio the MC interface shows nothing and there is no way to even see what's playing because it's only a DLNA server, not a control point or renderer. It's as if the app is doing nothing, but audio is playing.
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I only have a single MC zone.
When I play audio the MC interface shows nothing and there is no way to even see what's playing because it's only a DLNA server, not a control point or renderer. It's as if the app is doing nothing, but audio is playing.
The audio information button is zone based so you won't see the information while processing but if you have the audio format set to "specified output format" the DSP will be applied.
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The audio information button is zone based so you won't see the information while processing but if you have the audio format set to "specified output format" the DSP will be applied.
Hi Bob, cool I think I have it partially working. The only issue I have now is with DSD content.
In order to get MC to use DSP over DLNA I have to use "Specified Output Format" option. This limits content to either PCM or DSD, but not both. If I have it set to PCM 24-bit, it will convert the DSD content into 24-bit DSD and that is an invalid format.
My control point said playback was at 24 bit / 2.8 MHz rather than 1 bit / 2.8 MHz, or even converting it to a real PCM format for DSP may be reasonable.
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Hi Bob, cool I think I have it partially working. The only issue I have now is with DSD content.
In order to get MC to use DSP over DLNA I have to use "Specified Output Format" option. This limits content to either PCM or DSD, but not both. If I have it set to PCM 24-bit, it will convert the DSD content into 24-bit DSD and that is an invalid format.
My control point said playback was at 24 bit / 2.8 MHz rather than 1 bit / 2.8 MHz, or even converting it to a real PCM format for DSP may be reasonable.
Well do you want to apply DSP effects to the DSD material?
If so you can only do that by converting the DSD to 24 bit PCM as you have it set now, then in DSP studio change the sample rate for the DSD material to a sample rate supported by your renderer.
If you want to leave the DSD as is if you have a DSD capable renderer, do the "Specified output format when necessary" and under advanced unselect the DSD formats.
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Well do you want to apply DSP effects to the DSD material?
If so you can only do that by converting the DSD to 24 bit PCM as you have it set now, then in DSP studio change the sample rate for the DSD material to a sample rate supported by your renderer.
If you want to leave the DSD as is if you have a DSD capable renderer, do the "Specified output format when necessary" and under advanced unselect the DSD formats.
Thanks. Will give it a shot now.
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Hi,
I have a question how JRiver sends dsf file to streamers in DLNA mode? Is it in native form or DOP? In other words, how do I choose native or dop streaming for dsf files in DLNA mode?
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You can choose which to send. Go to Tools - Options - Media Network - Add or Configure DLNA Servers - Advanced. Select the appropriate DLNA Server. There is an option to Bitstream DSD (Requires DoPE Compliant Renderer). If you check that box it sends DoPE. If you do not check the box it sends native DSD.
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You can choose which to send. Go to Tools - Options - Media Network - Add or Configure DLNA Servers - Advanced. Select the appropriate DLNA Server. There is an option to Bitstream DSD (Requires DoPE Compliant Renderer). If you check that box it sends DoPE. If you do not check the box it sends native DSD.
Many thanks. This is exactly what I need. Another question is that whether JRiver can send DSD 512 dsf files natively in DLNA mode.
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I would imagine DSD512 over DLNA would only work with native DSD, not DoP, as it'd require the device to support a PCM sample rate of 1411.2 kHz and I'm not aware of any that do so native DSD is likely the only option there. Probably something you'd have to try.