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More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 25 for Windows => Topic started by: whatwhat on July 28, 2019, 06:05:46 am
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I find 32 and 64 bit MC25 on the download page. I've used only 32 bit MC. But now I'd like to use 64 bit one as all of the VST plugins I use also have those for 64 bit.
Does 64 bit MC have any better points than 32 bit one?
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This unanswered question is also valid for me. I still use the 32-bit version but I am bit reluctant to change to 64-bit as I am bit nervous that this will create issues. As I have spend years to rip all my albums (54,000 music files), I want feel some security that everything works including conversion to dsd on the fly, which works very well, especially on dsd64. Sometimes I can get some random "tics" on an album when trying dsd128. Could 64-bit be solution for this?
I only use JRiver v25 for music. Do you see any advantages to switch to 64-bit for this?
I use a rather new HP laptop with W10, Intel i5, DDR8, SSD for program files. It is only used for music listening feedin an Aesthetix Romulus Signature CD/DAC.
What can I espect switching to 64 (+/-)?
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Could 64-bit be solution for this?
Probably not. Depending on how powerful the system/CPU is (you said Core i5, but didn't mention model), the random ticks might be indicative of the system not being able to handle those higher DSD conversions on-the-fly. If it happens with DSD128 conversions and not DSD64 conversions, this is likely the reason. It would be more noticeable with multichannel content, since converting to DSD, especially higher DSD like DSD128 and above, are some of the most resource intensive tasks MC can do.
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Does anyone know how long JRiver will offer 32-bit versions of MediaCenter?
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No idea.
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//... you said Core i5, but didn't mention model...//... converting to DSD, especially higher DSD like DSD128 and above, are some of the most resource intensive tasks MC can do.
Thanks...
My processor is an Intel Core i5-8250U CPU 1.60GHz 1.80GH
RAM 8GB
x64 based processor
I have also tried bought DSD128 files played direct. They also create those "tics", so I can't say that pcm -> dsd on the fly is worse.
Interesting that you say that conversion from pcm to dsd is very resource demanding. What I read mostly is that conversion to dsd is not so demanding for the processor (typically shows 5-8 % on my computer). Or you are referring to the MC software? At the same time I am very happy with the dsd64 conversion from pcm. To my taste it sounds better in my set up.
But if we leave this aside, are there any advantages to download 64-bits version for use only for music in 2-channel stereo. That is my only use for my MC 25.
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Yeah, don't think that CPU at those clock speeds would be powerful enough to handle DSD conversions on-the-fly too well... well perhaps DSD64 (non-multichannel, probably), but likely not DSD128 or higher.
And there's no advantages if all you're doing is listening to music in stereo (and you're not using any memory playback options), IMO.
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Yeah, don't think that CPU at those clock speeds would be powerful enough to handle DSD conversions on-the-fly too well...
Thank's again.
My expertise is music and music history and theory and not computers. But I want it to sound as good as possible and have spent a lot of time and money to make that happen. Obviously I need a more powerful laptop then the one I bought one year ago. HP told me that the one I bought should be enough. Other people adviced to stick with Intel i5 as i7 was not stable enough (I have i7 as well but for other purposes). (I'm not interested of streaming machines - I rather use laptops as server).
So what is a powerful laptop-pc in this context? What clock frequence should I go for and which processor? What is your feeling/thoughts? When talking to dealers everything is powerful for music but they have other references to what perfect sound is, like MP3.
I should really appreciate your feedback on this. JRiver as such I am very happy with 24/7.
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Laptop CPUs ... with U at the end of their model numbers are underpowered to save battery as well as to reduce thermal problems (unless you buy gaming laptops which are noisy as hell when CPU is heavily used) ... so i5U is not really same as desktop i5
With that in mind why laptop? ... if you travel, you don’t need max quality music as your mobile listening gear is probably won’t be able to reproduce high quality stuff
Why not some small package desktop ... cooling solution on desktop with powerful CPU will be much quieter than equivalent laptop (if money is not a question ... can even make these fan less ... no noise at all) ... price of laptops is also way more expensive
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So what is a powerful laptop-pc in this context? What clock frequence should I go for and which processor? What is your feeling/thoughts?
Are we talking about DSD128 and higher conversions here? If so, honestly? A recent Core i7 desktop CPU (which is kinda rare to find in a laptop) or one of those high-end H mobile SKUs that's not a U SKU. So if I had a LARGE budget and was trying to find a laptop capable of it, I'd be looking for a laptop with a high-end CPU in it. From experience and watching major laptop reviews on YouTube tech channels for the last couple years, usually it's high-end gaming laptops that has the high-end processors in them along with beefy cooling systems to prevent the chips from overheating (this part is very important to prevent thermal throttling and maintaining turbo clocks and maintaining system stability).
The problem, obviously, is that gaming laptops are pretty expensive, and if you're not going to be using them for gaming, it's kinda a waste of money. On the other hand, if you watch movies (and want to watch media using madVR) the very decent GPUs in those systems could come in handy.
Here's some high-end gaming laptop reviews I've watched in the last little bit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn4AR7CbluE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHOMc4XU8jM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53BLkr3s69U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-qiJE3fWBw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuQ2gczGfDM
...you get the idea.
P.S. I've never heard that i7's weren't 'stable' in laptops, and it doesn't make sense either. I can see how it'd be more power hungry and run 'hotter' but as long as the cooling was sufficient to prevent overheating, this wouldn't matter. So as long as the cooling is good enough, I can't see how i7's in laptops aren't stable.
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Do you see any advantages to switch to 64-bit for this?
Probably not.
While I agree you probably won't notice any advantages using the 64bit version of MC, any 64bit application is going to have better memory management, so it could help in your DSD128 issue. Of course, if you use any 32bit plug-ins, VSTs, etc., you will need to stick with the 32bit version for compatibility.
Besides, exactly the same Library Backups work with either 32 or 64bit versions, so you could switch to 64bit to try, and if you had issues, switch back to 32bit. That isn't going to affect your music files, unless you do something silly in the Library.
I have also tried bought DSD128 files played direct. They also create those "tics", so I can't say that pcm -> dsd on the fly is worse.
If you are getting tics when playing DSD128 files directly, then I would look to solving that issue first, rather than upgrading your PC. That could be caused by buffer sizes, or other issues. There are lots of threads on similar topics. There was some discussion about the different methods DACs used to decode DSD some time back. Something about one bit decoding versus some other method. Could it be your DAC that is causing the issue for DSD128 files?
At the same time I am very happy with the dsd64 conversion from pcm. To my taste it sounds better in my set up.
Some people do seem to like the tone of DSD files decoded in their DAC, rather than PCM files decoded in the same DAC. I believe some DACs use different decoding methods (plus different algorithms of course) based on the format they are decoding. It might be possible to tweak MC DSP setting to make PCM files decoded in the DAC sound as good as DSD files decoded in the DAC, but testing that would take some time and fiddling. So that might be something to look at after fixing the tics on DSD128 files played directly.
EDIT:
Awesome Donkey has got in a post while I typed. 8)
The other issue with gaming laptops, with more powerful and hotter CPUs, is that they will make more noise keeping them cool. Some of them, lots more noise. Not good for listening to music!
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An under powered CPU is more likely to cause stuttering that occasional ticks. The ticks often come from some sort of transition problem, often caused by problems with buffering issues somewhere in the audio chain. It could be in the PC, in the usb or in the DAC itself.
The most common tick problem is between tracks, especially when switching between PCM and DSD. That is almost always a DAC issue.
You say that you get the same tics when playing DSD128 tracks directly. That process is not CPU intensive, which would indicate that the problem is probably not with the CPU speed but with some other part of the chain.
What DAC are you using? Some are more prone to tics than others.
There are 2 formats for transmitting DSD - native sample rate and DoP (DSD over PCM). Which are you using? If your DAC supports both (most do not) try both of them.
If you are using DoP, then you can use either WASAPI or ASIO for the driver. Try both. If using WASAPI given the somewhat unknown nature of your problem, I would suggest trying 64 bit MC. It may solve the problem simply because of the different buffers, etc. involved. You can have the 32 bit and 64 bit versions installed simultaneously.
If you are using a ASIO driver, does it work in both 32 and 64 bit modes? If your ASIO driver supports 64 bit, I would suggest trying 64 bit MC.
If you are using DoP, then that requires 352 KHz PCM. To test if 352 KHz works, you might try using SoX to upsample a 44.1 Khz CD to 352 Khz.
Try adjusting the buffers in Audio Setup, including the device buffering and the prebuffering timing. As try the buffering in the ASIO driver if you are using ASIO.
I would suggest you do some searches on audio websites for tic problems with your particular DAC. And, check with the DAC manufacturer.
This may be a CPU problem, but there are lots of other issues that could be causing the occasional tics, especially since you get it with native DSD files, not just when converting.
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Great information dtc. Maybe because it reinforces my thoughts. ;)
I use a rather new HP laptop with W10, Intel i5, DDR8, SSD for program files. It is only used for music listening feedin an Aesthetix Romulus Signature CD/DAC.