INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 12 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: gpvillamil on June 27, 2006, 10:37:02 am
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Just installed, using it to play tunes already...
Looks good, it is going in a good direction. Some first observations follow.
Good:
1. New skin is very nice and clean - looks like Windows Vista...
2. Many dialogs are redesigned to be more useful, eg. Handheld options is now much more usable
3. Move to more album-centric design is good
4. Much faster
5. Enhanced DVD playback options are great - I have already solved a long standing problem using this feature.
Bad:
1. Sudden crash when accessing "Drives & Devices"...
2. Fullscreen mode is gone - this was useful when in "sitting back" mode, esp with G-Force running, which provides song info by itself. Also pretty key for playing video and DVDs.
3. Favorites are gone - granted, they'd been somewhat neglected and had become less useful, but it might be good to revisit them
4. Double-click on an album does not play it - very confusing, esp when this is the defined behavior in options...
Ugly
1. The mode icons at the top of the tree are good - there was little point in having the mode icons AND the tree sub-branches. However, the marker used to indicate expansion is the little triangle, which usually implies that multiple branches can be opened. In fact, the media mode buttons are exclusive (you can't actually open the triangle for more than one) so you might as well make them buttons or tabs, which more accurately reflect exclusivity.
2. "Keyhole surgery" for editing smartlists - why force editing smartlists into one line, when you are allocating about 20% of the screen to an area for notes, which is rarely used. I would encourage shameless copying of the iTunes interface in this area...
3. Since "Favorites" are gone, the "Navigation" sub-menu is now somewhat redundant. Why not move the sub-items in Navigation directly under the view menu? Some of them, like Find, should be first level menu items.
4. Action Window - like I've said before, make it a more comprehensive collection of Actions, not just a grab-bag of functions. Possibly make it customizable like the toolbars. I'm thinking that a lot of what goes on in the Action Window can be converted to a right-click or drop-down on items in the tree. Export Playlist belongs in the AW, under the Playlist button.
5. Invisible management of images in playlists. Right now playlists and playing now seem very focused on music. You can in effect have a "playing now" of images, but there is no way of visualizing what's in it.
6. The "Find CD" and "Artist Info" options stuck under Playing Now seem a bit out of place. Isn't Find CD a candidate for the action window?
7. Still heavy reliance on accurate drag & drop, or multi-level nested menus - hard to use if you are using a wireless keyboard & trackball mouse. My suggestion - whenever an obvious drag target is on screen (say a playlist, a portable device, writeable media) have a clear button on the screen labelled "Add Here". When that button is pressed, the current visible selection is added to that target. So for example, to add stuff to a playlist, you'd open that playlist in the action window (its "Add Here" button would be visible), then you'd browse the library, whenever you saw something you want to add to the playlist, you'd select and then press the playlist's add button. Same for CDs, and handhelds. The Add Here button could *also* act as a drag target. Note that you could have multiple targets visible at once, and could easily add the current selection to any of them with a single button press. The key point of all this is to avoid complex mouse moves with a button held down - it is very, very hard with a wireless trackball!!!
8. Difficult to access switch between gapless and cross-fade playback - you need to define the alternate playback options, and then switch using that. While I like the alternate playback system in general, most of the time I'm only switching between cross-fade and gapless. Might be worth putting a button (next to shuffle) for this function alone.
9. Left-click and right-click do the same thing in the Playing Now display. Shouldn't one of them toggle the text display, and the other bring up the menu?
10. Generally consistency stuff - the Playback Options submen has as its second item... Playback Options. Clicking Build Playlist in the AW shows a list, where the first item is... Build Playlist. This is generally a bad practice, you are telling the user they can get something done, when they still have to go one step further.
11. DSP studio (digital signal processor studio) is a needlessly elaborate (and inaccurate - it's not a development studio for DSPs) way of describing a function that a lot of users need. Why not call it Sound Control, or Sound configuration? Why not add it to the action window, calling it "Adjust my sound"?
12. Action Window buttons should respect (and use) the current selection. For example if I select a bunch of tunes in the library then press "Burn CD", it should add the current selection to the CD burn list. If I press Build Playlist, it should make an "untitled" playlist with the current selection (and perhaps prompt to rename the playlist).
Wishlist
1. Ability to define image and video playlists with a soundtrack that overrides the original sound in the video - I very often want to play back videos or movies with a completely different audio playlist composed by me. (Documentaries about dinosaurs are great with tribal house.)
2. Keep the UI on one screen while showing visuals, cover art, etc on secondary screen (s). MC11 is actually excellent in this area - it lets you be a "video DJ", cuing up stuff on the main screen while showing the output on a second screen that goes to a projector. It worries me that Fullscreen mode is gone in MC12, because I do this quite a lot.
3. Scripting - check out Sony Media's Vegas Video, that can be completely scripted using Javascript.
4. 3D visuals - the existing 3D visualizations are very quick and well coded - would it be possible to 3Dize more of the program?
Other thoughts
1. As long as we have a closed beta, why not put in a function to log user actions, and use this to drive the design of menus, the action window, and the various buttons on the UI? I'd love to see how often people edit a playlist by right-clicking on it in the tree vs opening it in the AW.
2. The Action Window is the only UI element labelled in all CAPS. I've mentioned this before - is there perhaps a secret reason?
3. There is currently an option to use VMR9 for DVD playback - why not extend this to all video?
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2. The Action Window is the only UI element labelled in all CAPS. I've mentioned this before - is there perhaps a secret reason?
Good suggestion. It's done. We'll put out a new build.
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Fullscreen is there. Maximize the window in "Display View"
Don't move the mouse for a while and the borders go away.
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Fullscreen is there. Maximize the window in "Display View"
Don't move the mouse for a while and the borders go away.
Aha! Interesting. However, I did like the option to have fullscreen on one monitor and the UI on the other monitor. I could have a projector on the fullscreen output, and drive a "show" on the monitor, invisible to the audience.
Also - you need to debug the behavior on multiple monitors... try moving the display mode window onto a secondary monitor and then double-clicking. The UI window reappears on the primary. Occasionally MC totally minimizes itself, and there is no way of getting any display back...
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Also - you need to debug the behavior on multiple monitors... try moving the display mode window onto a secondary monitor and then double-clicking.
This is by design. Right-click "Display Settings..." to change the fullscreen monitor. You can also choose the resolution.
Maybe it'd be better to remove those options, but they work well, so it seems like a shame.
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This is by design. Right-click "Display Settings..." to change the fullscreen monitor. You can also choose the resolution.
Maybe it'd be better to remove those options, but they work well, so it seems like a shame.
Don't remove the option, it is great. However - is there a way of having the UI on one monitor, and the fullscreen display (visualizations, etc) on another monitor?
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Don't remove the option, it is great. However - is there a way of having the UI on one monitor, and the fullscreen display (visualizations, etc) on another monitor?
This will likely not be in version 12.0. We really like the unified interface.
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Hmmm.... >:(
This is something I use a fair bit when DJ-ing. It's very nice to use the laptop's screen for the UI and the Projector/TV output for G-Force. I think the unified interface is a good thing, but perhaps the Fullscreen view should be separate?
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I like this default skin
Much better than the MC11 skin
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First Impressions:
#1--Thank you, JimH, you're very kind to let me participate. I'm guessing that adding me to the beta list is in recognition for my undying love of the product, rather than any particular, you know, aptitude.
#2--Noire skin. I think this is a great looking default skin, cool and sleek. In the great tradition of Thunderstorm and (IMO) Aruba/negative. I would note that a lot of the graphics are drawn very close to the white level, which on my laptop monitor is nearly blown out. It doesn't really seem to affect navigation, but there were one or two option dialogues where the non-default button was very hard to pick out. IMO, the level of the very lightest and thinnest lines should come down a bit, towards grey.
#3--Display view, which I LOVE. I went back to 11.1 just to compare it to the old method, and that's the last time I'm going back to the old method. I think in another thread Glynor mentioned the possibility of configuring Display view to send to another monitor, maybe as a discrete window. If he didn't mention it I'm mentioning it now. This might be against the whole point of slimming down the interface, I don't know. But it sure is snappy right now!
#4--Stability. It seems really solid. I got one BSOD out of a lot of thrashing around, but I'm running XP Home, which is spring-loaded to display the BSOD. So my impression is really positive.
Having a further look . . .
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Hmmm.... >:(
This is something I use a fair bit when DJ-ing. It's very nice to use the laptop's screen for the UI and the Projector/TV output for G-Force. I think the unified interface is a good thing, but perhaps the Fullscreen view should be separate?
I'm not able to test this until further down the road, could someone please explain the difference here between 11 and 12?
The setup mentioned above is exactly the setup I use when we're having parties at home. The main comp (hidden away from long-fingered guests) with the Playing Now visible and output to a TV (second monitor style) with only Theater View, Fullscreen or G-Force.
Is this not possible anymore? How does it work now?
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This will likely not be in version 12.0. We really like the unified interface.
still reading, not installed yet, but quite frequently, I'll playback a video, full screen, on the TV (secondary display) to keep the granddaughter/wife occupied while I mess around in the library, tagging images or whatever... I might miss that ability... time will tell...
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Hmmm.... >:(
This is something I use a fair bit when DJ-ing. It's very nice to use the laptop's screen for the UI and the Projector/TV output for G-Force. I think the unified interface is a good thing, but perhaps the Fullscreen view should be separate?
Exactly.
It goes like this:
- The audience watches MC's display that is directed to the secondary monitor (TV or projector)
- Whoever is the audio/video/slide show dj uses MC's UI on the computer display.
Another usual scenario:
- I am working with my office PC that has two PC monitors.
- My main work application is on the first monitor, but not usually maximized. Some of its tool palettes are on the second monitor.
- I have several other programs running. Some of them are minimized. Some have a small window open on one of the monitors.
- MC is in one the other programs. I have a small windowed MC display visible on the second monitor. When I like to change the playlist or TV channel I bring MC's main UI to the front (usually on the first monitor).
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Talking about the unified display view, it really is an overall improvement. The double-click toggle is easy, although not immediately intuitive. I think I would want the integrated DV for about 90% of my use, but 10% of the time I'd want to send the video somewhere. Since I don't have a breakout cable handy I can't tell you what it does now.
As for the peephole, THANK YOU! Now managing a library can be a multi-media/multi-tasking experience. How did I ever get along tagging files without watching a movie at the same time?
Here's a thought: there's currently a hard limit to the resize of the peephole, which may be for stability. If not, being able to resize the peephole to the left 1/2 of the screen would be very handy. It might seem highly nerdy now, showing peephole on the left/ details view on the right, but imagine watching a movie or video and using the internal browser to search for artist/movie info.
Could somebody explain what otto's doing? I don't curently notice him, so maybe that's the point. When we do folder associations under "import", are those the only folders he's watching?
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I think the new tree is a major improvement, especially with the "big three" icons at the top. The small triangles are an issue, allbeit a small one.
Interactive tag info window--HOORAY!!
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especially with the "big three" icons at the top.
I kind Of Liked It How It Was.
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I think the new tree is a major improvement, especially with the "big three" icons at the top. The small triangles are an issue, allbeit a small one.
I like the little triangles. Unobtrusive, functional.
What should they be?
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I like the little triangles. Unobtrusive, functional.
What should they be?
Well, the little triangles with their up/down movement usually represent opening and closing sublevels of a list. The implication would be that you could open sublevels of the audio/image/video trees at the same time. In fact, you can't. So you might as well make the audio/image/video behave like radio buttons (ie when you push one in the others pop out).
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I'm thinkin tabs, but a rotating wheel almost like the winamp thing box and it would be totally user customizable as to what is in it!
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3. Scripting - check out Sony Media's Vegas Video, that can be completely scripted using Javascript.
What does the scripting allow you to do? I've got a C# Script plugin
which I soon hope to also do VB.NET, and possibly J#, which gives
full access to the MC programming interface.
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I've got a C# Script plugin[...]
I've been meaning to ask you... I'm right now in the process of learning C# (so forgive me if I use incorrect terms and whatnot).
What exactly does your C# Script Plugin do? Does it just expose MC as a regular .NET Object so that it can be used in any C# application easily? (And wouldn't MC do that on it's own?) Or is it more specific to scripting needs rather than a "compiled" C# application? (I'm not 100% on what the difference between C# and C# Script / VB.NET and VB Scripting is other than maybe one is compiled to an EXE and the other isn't.)
If I were to develop a helper application using your C# Script Plugin, it would (I assume) require any users to have not only MC installed, but also the plugin. Is this correct?
As I said, I'm just beginning learning (I'm on Chapter 2 of my book). I have some very basic C and C++ knowledge, though I know VB6 and VB.NET fairly well. It was a hard choice picking C# to learn over Java and Python (though I'm going to try to pick up Python next). I just liked the look and feel of C# better than Java (and oddly enough, since Mono exists, Microsoft's C# is a bit more open than Java, which is important to me as an OSX/Linux user).
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Have you come across Visual Basic for Applications in Word/Access etc?
Well it's a bit like that.
It gives immediate access to the Media Center interface
which can be compiled and run on the fly.
Currently the scripts require the plugin to be installed
in order to be any use to anyone, however this will not be the case in
the future. There will be an option to compile the script into .EXE
form which anyone who has the .NET framework installed will be able to use (At their peril).
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Okay... I'm gonna post my first impressions.
Skin:
- Love the clean look.
- Like the simplified RW/Play/FF buttons.
- Not a huge fan of the deep black bottom bar. Makes it very difficult to see the borders of the app on a dark desktop wallpaper. A simple "edge" would fix this though.
- I agree that the DSP Studio needs a re-name. The button icon is intuitive, the name is not (for Grandma).
Tree and View:
- The horizontal Audio/Images/Video items in the tree... Not a huge fan. It just doesn't match what I expect from experience in previous applications.
- The "expand" arrows are too small. It makes it hard to hit them on a high-resolution monitor. This is especially a problem with the new Audio/Images/Video buttons since the arrows are on the right, not the left as they are with the child items.
- Navigation is pretty buggy as is. I'll post details elsewhere after I make sure it's not duplicating what others have posted. (Basically, if I click on Video -- and show Video's child View Schemes -- clicking on Audio does NOT replace them with Audio's View Schemes.)
- Building thumbnails of video files freaks FFDSHOW out quite a bit. It's Tray Icon appears and disappears rapidly on my system when building thumbs of videos that play using it (which on my system is pretty much everything).
Playing Display and Playback:
- Generally regarding the Playing Display "Action Window", I LOVE IT. This is the main complaint I received from people I recommended MC to -- Too hard to find the Visualizations.
- Not sure how intuitive the "double click" to go fullscreen is. I tried it right away though...
- I need to be able to have fullscreen sent to a different monitor, while keeping the main UI on the existing monitor. I won't fully switch to 12 without this, as I use it everytime I DJ.
- I say the above with full respect for the goal of having the unified interface. Generally, I love what you've done, and I like the full-screen display controls much better. I think a good solution would be to add some way to open a second "child Playing Display" that you could move around independant of the "primary" one (and move/send to the other monitor and double click on to expand to full screen). It would actually be nice if these two displays were independant (so that one could show G-Force and the other Track Info for example).
- The above then could also be used to solve what marko asked for (the ability to view images independantly of the currently playing audio/video). Perhaps via a right-click Set Display --> Images setting.
- If something like this were done, it would probably be best to have it reset itself back to default when you close/relaunch MC. This would be a good "fail-safe" for novices that got in over their heads.
- Full screen view can send the video to a different monitor when you maximize the video (causing the main UI to disappear without explanation), which doesn't match what I expect from using other applications. This could be very confusing if the displays aren't side by side (such as in another room as my projectors sometimes are, or on a closed laptop when docked). Once the main UI is "gone" to the other display, there's no way to bring it back without direct access to the "other" display.
- Video playback doesn't feel as seamless. MC is inserting a white "screen" when loading the next video in a "playlist". This is vastly more intrusive than a black one would be (and happens quite a bit as many videos are split up into multiple files for burning to disc, and episodic TV shows).
- Video playback is very unstable. I've had MC12 crash on me quite a few times when playing XviD encoded video back using FFDSHOW, and while building video thumbnails. It also appears that it is trying to "preview" video files when you mouseover their "tiles". This doesn't work right for XviD videos though, and often crashes MC12.
Tag Info:
- I'm not sure what to think yet. Overall I like the look and feel, but I do feel that it will drastically cut down on my productivity when tagging because of what I explained in the build thread (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=34368.msg234542#msg234542). Each extra click adds up, and the fact that I can't scroll through a list of all available tags and quickly see them does hurt. I will see more as I use it for longer...
- Perhaps there should be an Advanced Tag Editor choice under the "drop down menu" (top left of dialog) that brings up an editor similar to the old one (or even better, a big, separate window similar to what iTunes uses. This could actually be very useful, as I could move that window over to my other monitor and work much more efficiently.
More later I'm sure...
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I need to be able to have fullscreen sent to a different monitor, while keeping the main UI on the existing monitor. I won't fully switch to 12 without this, as I use it everytime I DJ.
ditto!
Perhaps there should be an Advanced Tag Editor choice under the "drop down menu" (top left of dialog) that brings up an editor similar to the old one (or even better, a big, separate window similar to what iTunes uses. This could actually be very useful, as I could move that window over to my other monitor and work much more efficiently.
Thoroughly agree.
Actually agree with all the points, esp re fullscreen management.
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I thought I'd also mention.... I really, really like the new Mini View. I think I'd actually use it if there were an obvious button that would invoke it.... Perhaps up near the standard Min/Max/Close buttons (or under the search box).
As it is, I never use it because it's too clumsy to get to through the menus (and I don't remember the hotkey - I save my hotkey memory space for functions I need quickly, mainly Final Cut Pro and Photoshop).
EDIT: Or actually... If you put an "Up/Down Arrow Divider Control" (the control that is used in other places in the Application to show/hide panes -- what the heck are those called) at the BOTTOM of Display View (and in Mini View to get back to Display View quickly)!
That'd be intuitive and easy to use! And, that area of Display View is completely empty (and unused). If you want to get very fancy (cough * Apple * cough) you could even add an animated zoom in/zoom out effect when toggling. I wouldn't though, because it's cheesy. (Unless, of course, you happen to be "the Steve" since he can get away with any amount of cheese and his RDF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field) will protect him.)
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I like the interactivity of the Tag Info window. I don't like the Add Tag function very much (yet?) as it seems very hard to add multiple tags. Maybe if I start showing more fields in the panes view? But then there's all the back & forth scrolling.
In the Tag View window, if you have multiple files selected, it still says "1. <various>" for the track title. Probably just ought to say "<various>".
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I thought I'd also mention.... I really, really like the new Mini View. I think I'd actually use it if there were an obvious button that would invoke it.... Perhaps up near the standard Min/Max/Close buttons (or under the search box).
As it is, I never use it because it's too clumsy to get to through the menus (and I don't remember the hotkey - I save my hotkey memory space for functions I need quickly, mainly Final Cut Pro and Photoshop).
You can add a toolbar button for mini-view.
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Not had much time to play yet. Mainly just reading. From what I have seen I agree with these things:
2. "Keyhole surgery" for editing smartlists - why force editing smartlists into one line, when you are allocating about 20% of the screen to an area for notes, which is rarely used. I would encourage shameless copying of the iTunes interface in this area...
iTunes really has smart list creation nailed. Anything more akin to the way it is done there would be a bonus. I don't think direct text manipulation on one line should be removed but for sheer ease of creation it has something...
I agree that fullscreen on another monitor would be a very useful option. Like marko I don;t currently use this but can foresee areas where I may.
I also like the idea of having the option of bringing up an advanced tag editor again akin to iTunes. I do most of my tagging in the display window as I don't like tagging in the tiny action window.
I think the media buttons should act like tabs/radio buttons and not have drop downs.
I really need to play but not sure when I will be able to right now. Expect more from me once I have :D
Adam