INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => Media Center 17 => Topic started by: JimH on November 10, 2011, 06:46:28 pm
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We would like to understand how important an HTPC is for you. We know that many people may use just a PC (no TV) for playing media, but this poll is about how you might use a PC and a TV together, for enjoying your media from across the room, often with a remote.
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My HTPC is the only device connected directly to an input on my TV. It doesn't even have a coax cable, cable box, or any other devices attached.
MC is the primary media front-end I use for entertainment purposes.
The only real exception now is for Live TV viewing, for which I still use SageTV.
PS. Live TV basically only ever happens for Sports, and since I'm not a huge sportsball guy, and the Olympics aren't this year, and it isn't a World Cup year (I do like Soccer, as we call it here, but it is hard to follow closely here except for during the World Cup)... That basically only happens when my friends come over and say "Hey, turn on the X game." So, I fire up Sage and ask what channel to put on.
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I used to, but no longer.
I am able to accomplish streaming my library across my home network either using my Xbox 360 or my Onkyo Receiver. I have tried using tuner cards in the past, but was never really pleased with the quality (granted this was several years ago). I am now a very pleased U-Verse subscriber, so don't really have the need for recording TV on my PC unless the HTPC market really makes some giant leaps forward and U-Verse stagnates.
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Just for the record, I would have guessed that 1 in 4 would answer "Yes".
With 6 votes in, it's 4 in 6.
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I have repurposed an older desktop that I built in 2007 into my HTPC. I use MC on it just about every night...the only times I am forced to migrate away is to use ESPN3.com. My HTPC also serves as my media server when I am on-the-go, so it is on 24/7. I keep trying to justify an upgrade but everything just seems to work, especially after the introduction of LAV CUVID.
I operate it 95% of the time using a universal remote with "learned" commands from my HTPC remote, and sometimes I will access it using my laptop via Synergy, which is a fantastic program btw.
When I first repurposed the computer (back in the pre-Red October/madVR/LAV days) I would have to usually fiddle with something on it about twice a week. Now, I never think about it. Shows just appear (via Sickbeard with sgomes' mod) and music can be added remotely via a web interface I have designed.
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We have a dedicated HTPC with MC17 on it and it is very important to us (re your opening line Jim). It's a quad core that I built about a year ago to run SageTV. Our large screen TV's only source is the HTPC.
We've recently quit using Sage entirely and have all media including TV and recording done in MC. Still some minor growing pains with TV, but I'm so thankful with the demise of Sage that JRiver is putting a real focus on TV this year. I am confident that I will continue to be pleased with my decision to use MC for everything.
Rod
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Yes and yes.
My HTPC is the only input connected to my TV (there isn't even a coax antenna plugged into it). Everything that shows on the TV is through the HTPC. MC is the only software used on this.
I honestly don't know how people use 2 or 3 different programs for their needs. It's been difficult enough getting my better half comfortable with ONE ;D
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Just for the record, I would have guessed that 1 in 4 would answer "Yes".
With 6 votes in, it's 4 in 6.
I'm certainly one of the "majority" then, in fact I came to JR when looking for specifically for Theaterview / HTPC use for video playback. To me, MC Std View is just the "backend" where I do "maintenance tasks" on the library that is then consumed by the whole family via the HTPC / Theaterview front end.
Edit: Like others, my HTPC is a very simple build...Win7 + MC (some utiles like AnyDVD HD) but no other apps. Digitial TV is from a Network Based Tuner (HD HomeRun). Media is all on the Network.
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I answered yes, but I actually use it on three HTPCs in the house, my desktop and my laptop. Like jmone, I wanted to use standard view for my back end and theater view as front end. My library has grown since I started using MC, and so I never got to use TheaterView properly because I've been tagging for four years! Now with Carnac and the tagging on import, I'm hoping things will improve and I can finally enjoy my media rather than watch it guiltily knowing that it needed tagging. :)
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yep. JRiver MC installed on an Intel sandybridge quad core i5 mini itx computer, HDMI'd to a Huge Samsung LED LCD, and WASAPI event style USB audio to an Ayre DAC, ATC amp and ATC floor-standing speakers. All controlled by wireless logitech diNovo edge keyboard/trackpad... pure heaven ;D
uninstalled all other media/video/music players on my pc, there is no need for them
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Yes 2 HTPCs MC for audio andd video... WMC for tv still. Would like to get away with WMC, but WAF is real high with TV on WMC.
Ken
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We would like to understand how important an HTPC is for you.
Extremely! :-) I have 3 and I use MC almost exclusively this way (Theater View client). Standard view runs on the server of course to do the heavy lifting but most people in my family are unaware that MC is anything more than a HTPC front-end.
HTPC's are all I use with all our TV's. I don't have any other set top boxes, DVD/BD players etc
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yep. JRiver MC installed on an Intel sandybridge quad core i5 mini itx computer, HDMI'd to a Huge Samsung LED LCD, and WASAPI event style USB audio to an Ayre DAC, ATC amp and ATC floor-standing speakers. All controlled by wireless logitech diNovo edge keyboard/trackpad... pure heaven ;D
Nice. As it should be.
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I voted "I have an HTPC, but I don't use MC on it".
At the moment I'm still using WMC with jriver as my external player. One reason has been live tv. For me it just works better (for now) in WMC. I've never been able to get my ATI tuner to display a quality picture in MC no matter what I do with the filters in MC.
Also in the past the lack of automatic metadata in MC kept me away from using theater view, although this problem is quickly being resolved lately in the new versions.
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HTPC =>HDMI => Yamaha RX-V867 => HDMI => Mitsubishi DLP TV
Nothing else is connected to the TV.
A single antenna in the attic feeds an AVerMedia HD Duet PCIe Dual Tuner Card, and it works great.
Once MC gets some more polish on TV, I hope to switch, but for now WMC is still much more usable for daily use.
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Yes, from 14 of 19.
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Common theme here seems to be TV not so great vs WMC, so it's great you guys seem to be putting a fair amount of focus on this at the moment.
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Common theme here seems to be TV not so great vs WMC, so it's great you guys seem to be putting a fair amount of focus on this at the moment.
Right now WMC has the lock on TV for me for these reasons:
First - it can handle digital cable including encrypted channels via cable card adapters (Ceton or HomeRun)
Second - it can record up to 4 channels at a time from one cable card or 8 from two to a single central machine.
Third - using the XBox 360 as a WMC Extender, the TV experience is identical on every TV and all shows (including 'copy once' flagged ones) can be watched from any TV in the house even though they all record on a central computer.
The only thing WMC does really well is TV (once you get past all of the registry edits and tweaks you have to do to fix things like enforced overscan). For everything else, I switch over to JRiver MC and Theater View.
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Been using MC on my HTPC since the first build (of HTPC) a few years years ago.
Music and Video mostly. Photos. Netflix. Streaming stuff (news, movies from a not very common sites) - this is not handled well in Theater View - have to go to Standard View which is a bit annoying.
Almost no live TV (I "cut the cable" but do have an antenna and basic cable).
MC is the only media player currently installed on my HTPC (except for IE and Firefox browsers).
--max
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We have two dedicated htpc's running mc. One in our living room and one in our projection room.
(We dont used mc's tv functionality because we barely ever watch live tv and our cable company does not allow it.)
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I have a dedicated HTPC i use MC on. I also use it on my main computer and my laptop in addition.
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that's also a yes for me.
my htpc is the only thing connected to my videoprojector, right now i still have to get out of theatreview to tag a few things, but once "fill properties from filename" works with auto import, i'll just have to drag files in the right folder and theaterview will just work as i want ...
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I voted Yes.
I have a dedicated HTPC with MC where most of the playback is done, basicaly Music (Audio & Music Videos), and rarely use the rest of Laptops for full track playback, just for testing samples.
However, I do most of the library managing is on the Laptops, not on the HTPC.
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I have only one computer, and it's connected to both my computer-monitor, and via HDMI to my TV.
I use Standard view on monitor and theaterview on my TV, and control the theaterview from couch with a remote.
This setup is working absolutely perfect.
Thomas
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I voted yes.
Server on WHS. Two HTPCs and a laptop for maintenance. I use standard view on the WHS box and maintenance laptop.
Video, music, images are always consumed via Theater View.
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I have a HTPC with WMC connected to a WHS. Thiinking about moving to MC but still confused about the server element of MC and on my main PC, where I've been tevaluating it, I've had some problems with the PC not sleeping again after it's nighlty backup which may or may not be related to MC.
Simon
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I voted No - I'm using MC as a server and prefer control and rendering (of audio) by other means.
However, I am playing around with Theater View using Splashtop as a rempote desktop on an iPad, but the MC PC is not connected to a TV!
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Yes, i use MC16 only in HTPC mode (Theater View) in Wasapi mode to my Lynx L22 sound card.
Only 2 missing features to let me move to MC17:
- MDAPI plugin to manage my smart usb infinity subscribed card reader for pay DVB-T TV
- refresh smart playlists
Anyway, MC is very good product.
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We have a PC with MC connected to 2 (out of three) tv's in the house. We use laptops for watching tv/ videos anyplace else we happen to be (kitchen, office, etc). We love this solution. We have a tv in the family room and one in our bedroom and we can watch pretty much whatever we want. If my wife wants work in the craft room on a project, she can use her laptop to watch tv while she is working. This setup (using laptops) give us a lot of flexability to put viewing capability anywhere we need it without having tv's in every room. There are some limitations, but I am hoping the recent push in the tv viewing area will help with this.
Alex
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I have normal laptop with hdmi connected my DAC which is connected projector... I do not need theater mode, I see text quite easily on 120" screen (and I do not use remote control...).
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Just for the record, I would have guessed that 1 in 4 would answer "Yes".
With 6 votes in, it's 4 in 6.
And it's still 2 out of 3. 38 out of 56 say yes.
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I think the most common setup for people is one or more HTPC front ends, and a workstation or two with MC for music perhaps. It's my bet at least.
This would be me. As others have said, I have one instance on my TV-connected HTPC whereby Theater View is really the only interface used; and another instance on my Laptop whereby Std view suffices perfectly.
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I bought an Acer Aspire Revo 3700 as a audio server for MC, but also have it connected to my TV. I primarily use Theater View for the Media Slideshow while listening to music; I'd love to be able to use local folders to store images for the slideshow.
I have ripped and watched a few movies with MC; it works well enough, though the admittedly underpowered Revo struggles a bit. I tried Netflix, but I prefer the interface my smart TV offers and use that instead. I use the Revo to watch web based streaming services (WatchESPN, etc) and it would be great to see these services better integrated into MC.
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I'm using it on two HTPCs (Theater View only) and my main PC in my study where
I rip media and maintain my library on a separate WHS v1.
I'm a lot like glynor, I don't use the tuners in my TVs, I use Beyond TV (installed on the server) for both live and recorded TV viewing, MC17 for everything else (DVDs, Blurays & music rips).
With the improvements in TV tuner use in v17, I'll be trying MC for TV soon, but I'm still sold on BTV's server/client architecture. If I can get past the parsing, I'd be happy to leave BTV on the server as the "recording engine", and MC17 for playback & viewed file deletion.
MC is hands-down the best HTPC playback software for me (I'm a converted/reformed :) XBMC user)
I use Event Ghost and a Harmony remote to control all programs, the TVs, and the Receivers in all of my systems.
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I've split a couple of posts to "HTPC Discussion".
Thanks for the detailed descriptions.
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My HTPC is the only device connected directly to an input on my TV. It doesn't even have a coax cable, cable box, or any other devices attached.
MC is the primary media front-end I use for entertainment purposes.
The only real exception now is for Live TV viewing, for which I still use SageTV.
PS. Live TV basically only ever happens for Sports, and since I'm not a huge sportsball guy, and the Olympics aren't this year, and it isn't a World Cup year (I do like Soccer, as we call it here, but it is hard to follow closely here except for during the World Cup)... That basically only happens when my friends come over and say "Hey, turn on the X game." So, I fire up Sage and ask what channel to put on.
I am really trying to make JR my only MC.. However, a few things are holding me back. I use a unRAID server with three HTPC clients. It would be nice if JR would break there client and server up into 2 apps. Of course there would have to be a port to the linux NAS users out there (Take a look at Plex). and leave the client app for the well, clients. The other thing is - I JUST CAN'T the my head around how to work / manage / configure my movies and TV shows w/episodes. Also the WOW factor and easy of use is not there as in XBMC with the multiple skins that are supported. NOW for Audio - it's my one and only - I just love it for that.
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I have had MC on an HTPC for many, many years, primarily for music playback. It's always connected to my display but I rarely use Theater View except when I want to show off the system. Otherwise, I have a dedicated monitor on my coffee table and hope to replace it with some type of tablet device in the near future. To be honest the main reason I don't use theater view more often is because I have a plasma display and don't want to leave a mostly static display up for extended periods. For video I watch primarily BD and even when ripped to "movie only" size they still require a lot of HDD space for a collection of any appreciable size, so my preference is to burn them to disc and play them in a dedicated player. I do use MC to catalog and keep track the physical discs though.
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Yes, but not for TV, Video or Pictures... I use it exclusively as a large display for Theater and Standard Views while listening to music. I use VLC for videos, DVD Player for DVDs, Picasa for pics, and a DVR Cable box for TV. I find no need to lump everything into one program. I typically do not like any swiss-army type products, whether software or otherwise. I prefer to use what I find best (for me) for each. One button on the Harmony remote takes care of switching between watching TV and listening to music.
It is kind of like the iPad vs Kindle debate. I see see a place for each and no reason to not have both.
Cheers!
Patrick
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I'd love to use MC on my HTC, but i haven't been able to work out how to get my bd iso's and mkv's to display in the one list in either theater view or standard. If someone showed me how to do that then i think i'd leave xbmc behind.
I think the title selection is great and means i can leave tmt etc behind.
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Yes, but not for TV, Video or Pictures... I use it exclusively as a large display for Theater and Standard Views while listening to music. I use VLC for videos, DVD Player for DVDs, Picasa for pics, and a DVR Cable box for TV. I find no need to lump everything into one program. I typically do not like any swiss-army type products, whether software or otherwise. I prefer to use what I find best (for me) for each. One button on the Harmony remote takes care of switching between watching TV and listening to music.
It is kind of like the iPad vs Kindle debate. I see see a place for each and no reason to not have both.
Cheers!
Patrick
I believe MC has surpassed VLC in the video department. Any reason why you still use it?
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I believe MC has surpassed VLC in the video department.
I would agree with this. RO prime aim was to make video playback as easy and reliable as VLC but but add wider compatibility and a higher quality output.
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I believe MC has surpassed VLC in the video department. Any reason why you still use it?
Pure habit I suppose. I play all videos from folder lever with right-click context menu ("Play with VLC"). I dont need or use an imported "library" for video. I barely have a need for VLC now. Every once in awhile a friend will give me a TV Show or something in godknowswhat video codec. I found VLC to always work without fail. Most of the time Ive watched video on my PC it was a Netflix movie or a Blue Devils (SIC!!!!!) youtube video so no need for a player so to speak.
Also, I have two output devices. The Juli@ send digi to my Naim DAC for my 2 channel pleasure. The M-Audio transit sends digi along to my Yamaha 5.1 receiver (along with my DVD player and Cable box). MC is of course configured for ASIO to the Juli@. I think I would need to switch MC's output every time I used it or video. Not doing that.
Lastly, I really like keeping MC clean and tidy. I have deleted just about everything I could that doesn't involve music/audio. All views and "support" have been removed. Theater view only shows Audio and Exit. Clean.
Anyway.... if there is an easy way to toggle between two sound cards I will check out using MC as a video player as well.
Thx,
Patrick
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Anyway.... if there is an easy way to toggle between two sound cards I will check out using MC as a video player as well.
Thx,
Patrick
Just set up a Zone for each card...Works very well....
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thanks!!! Now how to get those deleted views back ;)
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I have my PC connected to the home theater (TV) via a PS3 using DLNA. This generally works OK but I cannot use Theater View with this configuration. For me it's hard to justify another PC set up as an HTPC just to get Theater View. If I'm missing a trick, please let me know.
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why not just directly connect your video card to the TV?
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why not just directly connect your video card to the TV?
They are in different rooms. The PS3 is connected to the PC via a wireless network.
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AHA!!!!!!!!! i missed the obvious....
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Just picked up an ACER Revo-100 to connect to my Pioneer SC-27 via HDMI. Output from that to my Paradigm Monitor series speakers and PRO-141FD Plasma display.
I was streaming using the DLNA on the SC-27, but figured I wasn't getting the full benefit of Media Center. I was sold on the slick little slide out touchpad/keypad that the Revo has, hopefully it will work as advertised!
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I answered "Yes" but I'm actally between the first two... I use MC on my HTPC, which is indeed connected to a TV, but I only use MC for audio. I've stuck with Windows Media Center for TV because it handles the simple stuff -- playing DVDs and watching and recording over-the-air television -- very well, and that's all the video functionality I need.
Also, I do not use theater view... I also have a computer monitor connected to the HTPC, and I use MC's regular view on it. I control all of this with both a mouse/keyboard, and an infrared remote... depending on whether I'm sitting on the couch or at a chair in front of the computer monitor.
The whole setup works very well, and MC is definitely the most important part of it.
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I use Media Center connected to my TV, in my living room, for both Audio and Video. In Theater View mode, of course; it's the only interface we use at home ever since I got the remote control :)
I'm hoping all of the online services we use will be available from Media Center Theater View at some point! A quick way of achieving this would be a Theater View SDK; that would make it possible for the community to develop our own plugins!
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Generally no, although I do use it for some stuff.
For the vast majority of videos (i.e. TV episodes and movies) I use MediaPortal because the interface is nicer, and most importantly, it automatically scrapes details from the internet about the movies. That's pretty critical.
MC is used (sometimes) for videos which aren't available online.
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We would like to understand how important an HTPC is for you. We know that many people may use just a PC (no TV) for playing media, but this poll is about how you might use a PC and a TV together, for enjoying your media from across the room, often with a remote.
Voted 'Yes.'
Using my HTPC strictly for music and film playback, not TV(don't have a TV set, only watching it rarely from the internet). My HTPC is quite the core component in my setup, having stored all my music here, as well as a bunch of DVD's. Blu-ray playback is done only from discs directly, as I find they take up too much harddrive storage. Harddrives are cheap, admittedly, so maybe one should consider the conversion of the Blu-ray disc-library to harddrive. Quality-wise I don't see any reason to do it though, so for now.. Using HTPC in one room only. Laptop used as remote control to HTPC, and HD projector is the main screen for film playback and ripping(why can't I rip cd/dvd's etc. via the remote laptop?).
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I bought JRiver Media Center exclusively for use on my HTPC.
JRiver was the only program I could find that did everything I wanted with audio AND had a 10-foot interface.
Since I use MC as the main interface for my HTPC, Theater Mode is EVERYTHING to me. But the fact is, I bought MC despite of Theater Mode, not because of it.
I'm afraid I'm squarly in Mr. Haugen's camp that Theater Mode needs some significant improvements.
Standard mode is fantastic, the library/database handling is amazing, and format/tagging/hardware support is comprehensive. MC does not need further improvement in these areas.
But to be a great HTPC interface, it needs to have the best looking and best performing 10-foot interface. I'd love to see that improved.
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did i already say this somehwhere above? Too hammered to look.
I bought J River Media Center solely for the Theater View.
In a year I have discovered it to be invaluable for many other reasons. Ironically the Theater View's novelty has worn off a bit due to the limited offering of artist pics.
-patrick
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I have multiple HTPCs connected to multiple displays.
An 82" Mits DLP with 2 HTPC attached. There is a Pioneer BD also attached to it. I only use the Pioneer as a signal generator when calibrating.
I have a 58" Panny Plasma with an HTPC attached as the only the source device.
I have a 65" HP DLP with an HTPC attached as the only source device.
I have a 37" Panny LED with an HTPC as the sole source, which is dual use, it is both my personal workstation and HTPC
I have a 28 Hann's G LCD with an HTPC as solte source which is dual use, it both my wifes personal workstation and and HTPC
I generally define and HTPC as i3 class or above machine with discrete graphics and a blu-ray drive. The second HTPC on my big 82" DLP is Sandy Bridge i3 and I run my Ceton in it and I often use it WMC live TV fro cable and ATSC becasue the native gamut of the intel HD graphics is more accurate than the Nvidia discrete cards I have in the rest of the boxes. The only machine without a BD Drive is the Dell i3 notebook. The notebook uses integrated iGPU as well.
I have MC 17 on only one of the boxes as it is still a test app for me. For me to be fully committed to JRiver I need cable tuner suppport as each of the PC is set up to support Ceton for Cable and HD Homeruns for ATSC. As I have mentioned in several messages I will remain married to WMC until cable tuners are supported. All the above boxes have MC 16 on them as does one of our notebooks. That notebook is also an i3 class machine. We use it either stand alone in the kitchen to watch cable and OTA TV or I use with ChromaPure to calibrate my other dispalys.
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As you know the HD Homerun is already supported and works great (I have the PAL version). You will also be pleased to know that the JR Devs are playing with a Ceton as we speak!
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I use mc17 as a dedicated front end with theatre view to my 40 inch lcd. I have been using this system for last year (previously mc16) and love it.
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Hooked up through pioneer receiver to 46" TV. Bought exclusively for the 10 foot interface and so I could keep the music output options separate from WMC (media browser) where I currently play movies from. However, with the effort that has been put into video recently I'll probably wind up retiring media browser and just go exclusively with jriver just for the ease of having 1 program (too much eventghosting). Although I do love the backdrops, etc. in media browser....
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I'm really quite (pleasantly) surprised by these poll results. I'd have guessed higher than Jim's guess, but north of 70% after so many votes is way beyond what I expected.... Even on Interact with this audience.
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I'm really quite (pleasantly) surprised by these poll results.
Unfortunately, it's impossible to know what the results actually mean. What portion of users who do not use MC on a HTPC even read the topic. And of those that do (perhaps only because they read all topics), what portion would bother to vote? As of now, 113 of 1,150 readers have answered 'yes' or 'thinking about it'. What does that mean? Less than 10% of users are actual or potential HTPC users? Or that those who are interested are so excited about it they've come back to check the results ten times?
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I think it means the growth that has been seen since Red October and the fresh exposure that gave on AVS is bringing lots of new users to Red October and the potential is vast. Watch the amount of activity on the Ceton and HD Prime threads in the Home Theater PC areas of AVS and you will see they are very active and they are people who spend. WMC while it is quite solid in many ways is limiting. There are lot of people who would prefer a different solution than WMC.. Any poll on the internet is not a statistically valid poll. But as a data point it it consistent with the business trend. This all comes and something of a unique time. The Cetons have only been and easily purchaseable item for maybe 8-9 months. The HD Primes for a few months. People have been installing tuners in HTPCs for a long time but cable tuners are game changers. I have no idea how many people are active on the Home Theater Forum on AVS but each of those is a potential buyer of JRiver MC.
My brother has several HTPCs in his home connected to large displays. He is reluctant to get involved with JRiver because he was burned badly by Sage and the Ceton is not supported. He is a big audio guy and has spent months converting a CD audio collection to FLAC. All he needs is Ceton support and I am sure he will overcome his his Sage inflicted wounds and sign up.
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I think it means the growth that has been seen since Red October and the fresh exposure that gave on AVS is bringing lots of new users to Red October and the potential is vast.
I'm sure that's true. I was only commenting that this poll (regardless of statistical significance) adds nothing to what we're already willing to assume. I'm actually more concerned JRiver misses the boat because the meta data services these potential new users expect are not in place at the time large numbers of them are motivated to try it out. It would be interesting to know how many potential users are rejecting MC because it doesn't yet do what they expect, versus those seeing the potential and registering. Hopefully, most of the trend is yet to come.
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Rick, I do completely agree that some of the response to this poll may have been self-selecting (eg, those people who have HTPCs are more likely to see and notice the topic, click on it, and then vote in the poll). I thought about that when I wrote my little note, and almost even mentioned the effect.
But I still think it is a bit more significant than you might be giving it credit for, based on the previous behavior I've seen with things like this on Interact in the past. I think THAT is where Jim was coming from with his guess, and that is certainly what colored my "prediction" for the results.
There is, or at least was, a vocal component of the MC userbase on Interact that was what I'd term "militant audio-only users" over the past years. This crew has been noticeably less vocal since about mid-way through MC15 (I'm guessing), but they were always there. In the past (I'm talking back in MC10-12 era days) there was often a backlash from these users any time JRiver spent a significant amount of time implementing a video or image related feature. They would spam the forum with a bunch of "90% of your users are Audio-only users, why aren't you spending 90% of your resources on catering to US?!?!" posts and whining about the "wasted time" on the new features. I always found these arguments incredibly short-sighted, and based on vaporous assumptions about the user-base with limited data to go on, other than basically just gut instinct. But, they were certainly there. I may be remembering (or making it seem like) the "arguments" were far more acidic than they actually were way back when, but there was that contingent and they were active on Interact.
If this poll had been published back then, I KNOW we'd have seen different results. I think THAT was what was most enlightening about this. That there was also NOT a substantial self-selecting ANTI reactionary vote component.
I think probably one of three things happened to most of these users: (A) They saw the light, and the new Video-related features of MC won them over, so they are now "one of us"; (B) They now acknowledge that Video is here to stay so complaining is useless; or (C) They left.
I think that, more than anything, this poll shows that interest in HTPC oriented features is high at Interact. Probably higher than it ever was. Does the percentage of users who voted "Yes" translate into a percentage of overall users of MC that have HTPCs? Certainly not. But, it does also almost certainly show that the contingent is much larger than some of us might have otherwise thought (for example, compare the total responses of this poll versus Nathan's Direct Audio "Audiophile" poll).
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Keep in mind that "militant audio-only users" and "HTPC users" are not mutually exclusive, depending on your definition.
My primary use for MC is audio. (I would use video more if video playback and Red October were more reliable, but alas...) I have a server that I refer to as an HTPC for the sake of convenience, but 95% of the time it is only playing audio. And indeed, I purchased it to only play audio. (Video playback was gravy that I afterwards thought MC could give me.)
But that doesn't mean I don't use Theater Mode. The "HTPC" running MC has taken the place of my CD changers. Theater mode is used to select and playback audio using the 10-foot interface. I only go into standard mode to do organization and housekeeping I can't do in theater mode.
Some might equate "HTPC" with meaning video playback, and I suppose technically it does, but I think there's a more generic meaning of the term: a PC that's in your living room (or listening room) and hooked up to a big TV for display and operated from a distance, regardless of whether it's for video or audio.
So there's one example of an audio-oriented user who is 100% focused on Theater Mode functionality. The audio-playback and organization features of MC are so advanced, why wouldn't you want to access them through the 10-foot interface as your primary audio source in your listening environment?
Theater-mode, the HTPC-ness of Media Center, is of great importance to video and audio users, in my view.
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Keep in mind that "militant audio-only users" and "HTPC users" are not mutually exclusive, depending on your definition.
My primary use for MC is audio. (I would use video more if video playback and Red October were more reliable, but alas...) I have a server that I refer to as an HTPC for the sake of convenience, but 95% of the time it is only playing audio. And indeed, I purchased it to only play audio. (Video playback was gravy that I afterwards thought MC could give me.)
But that doesn't mean I don't use Theater Mode. The "HTPC" running MC has taken the place of my CD changers. Theater mode is used to select and playback audio using the 10-foot interface. I only go into standard mode to do organization and housekeeping I can't do in theater mode.
So there's one example of an audio-oriented user who is 100% focused on Theater Mode functionality. The audio-playback and organization features of MC are so advanced, why wouldn't you want to access them through the 10-foot interface as your primary audio source in your listening environment?
Theater-mode, the HTPC-ness of Media Center, is of great importance to video and audio users, in my view.
Totally agree, except for the part about Red October being flaky.
I've never had any problems with Red October on any video file I've encountered "in the wild" since the initial flakiness was sorted out a long time ago. I suppose it probably depends on what types of video you're using. But, if you have repeatable problems, please post details. They want to fix them, and generally do.
Anyway... That is a very good point. Back in the day I don't know that many of the people to whom I'm referring would have agreed (many of the fights were specifically about the investment of resources into Hairstyle Theater View), but...
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I would use video more if video playback and Red October were more reliable, but alas...
Could be a video driver problem:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=67948.msg456835#msg456835
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Rick, I do completely agree that some of the response to this poll may have been self-selecting.
I didn't say that. I said, "I'm sure that's true. I was only commenting that this poll (regardless of statistical significance) adds nothing to what we're already willing to assume." You would have to rely on meaningless results to conclude why a meaningless poll is meaningless. What you're doing is making perfectly sensible hypotheses and then observing the meaningless results fit. The fact the results say nothing about the validity of the hypothesis doesn't mean the hypothesis is wrong. That would be an even more flawed conclusion than believing the results supported it. ;)
And even accurate poll results don't always suggest what decisions or actions should be taken. We all have good reason to be concerned about our political leaders relying too heavily on polls. Not because the polls are inaccurate—the private polls well-financed politicians use are very accurate. The problem is they are accurate, and politicians do act on them. As a result, we have leaders dutifully following the whims of the ignorant masses. We have plenty of evidence governance by plebiscite is the worse form of democracy. There's a reason we have leaders...
So what's that got to do with this? Well, let's assume a few years ago a poll accurately measured the audio-only user base at 80%, that a majority of those were annoyed the development efforts being directed elsewhere, and 20% have indicating they will leave if that continues. What should JRiver do? Such poll results should not be ignored, but following the advice or wishes of the respondents is not necessarily the answer either. If the current user base is not providing sufficient revenues to ensure the continued existence of the business, the results might suggest catering to the whims of the current user base is responsible for the lack of financial success. The correct response might be to move boldly in a new direction, and hopefully skew the user base in the direction of larger and/or more lucrative markets before many existing users leave.
The question of what portion of users have HTPC's could be determined with reasonable accuracy from other survey methods. But probably more relevant from a business point of view is general market data concerning penetration, buyer attributes, etc. JRiver can compare this to what they already know about their existing users and marketing experience, and make sensible decisions. Any reasonable measure of potential markets based on HTPC ownership (by particular user-types)—or audiophile needs—is probably already huge compared to the existing user base. So whether 40, 60 or 80% of existing users use the related existing features or are in favour of further development may not be particularly relevant.
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I didn't say that. I said, "I'm sure that's true. I was only commenting that this poll (regardless of statistical significance) adds nothing to what we're already willing to assume." You would have to rely on meaningless results to conclude why a meaningless poll is meaningless. What you're doing is making perfectly sensible hypotheses and then observing the meaningless results fit. The fact the results say nothing about the validity of the hypothesis doesn't mean the hypothesis is wrong. That would be an even more flawed conclusion than believing the results supported it. ;)
And even accurate poll results don't always suggest what decisions or actions should be taken. We all have good reason to be concerned about our political leaders relying too heavily on polls. Not because the polls are inaccurate—the private polls well-financed politicians use are very accurate. The problem is they are accurate, and politicians do act on them. As a result, we have leaders dutifully following the whims of the ignorant masses. We have plenty of evidence governance by plebiscite is the worse form of democracy. There's a reason we have leaders...
So what's that got to do with this? Well, let's assume a few years ago a poll accurately measured the audio-only user base at 80%, that a majority of those were annoyed the development efforts being directed elsewhere, and 20% have indicating they will leave if that continues. What should JRiver do? Such poll results should not be ignored, but following the advice or wishes of the respondents is not necessarily the answer either. If the current user base is not providing sufficient revenues to ensure the continued existence of the business, the results might suggest catering to the whims of the current user base is responsible for the lack of financial success. The correct response might be to move boldly in a new direction, and hopefully skew the user base in the direction of larger and/or more lucrative markets before many existing users leave.
The question of what portion of users have HTPC's could be determined with reasonable accuracy from other survey methods. But probably more relevant from a business point of view is general market data concerning penetration, buyer attributes, etc. JRiver can compare this to what they already know about their existing users and marketing experience, and make sensible decisions. Any reasonable measure of potential markets based on HTPC ownership (by particular user-types)—or audiophile needs—is probably already huge compared to the existing user base. So whether 40, 60 or 80% of existing users use the related existing features or are in favour of further development may not be particularly relevant.
I completely agree with all of that. I was discussing only one small portion of your post, Rick, because it made me think:
What portion of users who do not use MC on a HTPC even read the topic. And of those that do (perhaps only because they read all topics), what portion would bother to vote? As of now, 113 of 1,150 readers have answered 'yes' or 'thinking about it'. What does that mean?
As you know, I like to "think out loud" here. That's what is fun for me. ;)
That was precisely the reason I thought their militant feelings were short sighted way back when (though the results would NOT have been that way, even then, if we had a way to get accurate results).
That is also why I said this in the other thread:
It might be useful for you guys if MC itself collected some of this data. It would, of course, have to warn the user. But I'd happily approve MC collecting some limited anonymous usage statistics.
That would actually provide accurate results.
I'd suggest just the opposite of the "concentrate on what they're using" in many cases. If you see that a lot of people ARE NOT using a particular piece of MC, then that is a reason to focus on it to fix it, or remove it, in many cases (or sometimes just advertise the features more).
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I am not actually sure of what the term HTPC aka Home Theater PC means to others.
My first attempt to ceate a "HTPC" was over 11 years ago when I tried a Sigma Designs DVD decoder card. Back then I already used computer as an audio source for my hi-fi system, but I wondered if it could do DVD disc playback too. However the video output quality through the S-Video connection to the television was not as good as the quality I got from a standalone DVD player and I returned the card to my local dealer with my comments (he was my friend and wanted to get user feedback).
The next attempt was about 2002 when I bought my first high quality 5.1 audio system and connected it to the PC, DVD-player and television and thus created a "home theater". I had already started to rip DVDs to AVIs and I have used PCs with television since then. MC9 with various video features was developed and released in 2002/2003 and MC became one of my regularly used video player programs and especially the video database program on my "HTPC"s.
The Theater View mode has never been a big thing to me because I have always used a small LCD monitor and cordless mouse & keyboard combo on a nearby coffee table as a control center that runs MC in the standard view mode. The television or projector has mostly served just as a dedicated display device for the video, image or audio visualization playback.
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We would like to understand how important an HTPC is for you. We know that many people may use just a PC (no TV) for playing media, but this poll is about how you might use a PC and a TV together, for enjoying your media from across the room, often with a remote.
I am in the process of trying to get MC17 working to replace my SageTV HTPC with 3 tuners in it. Need the DNLA replacement so I can feed the Video and Audio to my entertainment center. I really need help in getting this going.
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We have a dedicated HTPC with MC17 on it and it is very important to us (re your opening line Jim). It's a quad core that I built about a year ago to run SageTV. Our large screen TV's only source is the HTPC.
We've recently quit using Sage entirely and have all media including TV and recording done in MC. Still some minor growing pains with TV, but I'm so thankful with the demise of Sage that JRiver is putting a real focus on TV this year. I am confident that I will continue to be pleased with my decision to use MC for everything.
Rod
I am glad to hear you replaced Sage, I am trying to do the same thing but am having great difficulty understanding how to do it with MC17.
Have 3 tuners, and an extender to communicate with my entertainment system. MC looks very good, but with my limited knowledge of MC need some direction.
Thanks,
Terry
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I am in the process of trying to get MC17 working to replace my SageTV HTPC with 3 tuners in it. Need the DNLA replacement so I can feed the Video and Audio to my entertainment center. I really need help in getting this going.
For how DLNA works, you could read these topics on our wiki:
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Media_Network
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/DLNA
Please post any questions on the Media Network board:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=7.0
MC isn't yet a complete replacement for Sage, but we're working on it.
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Adding feature metrics might be a good idea to help figure out what features need changes. I would be happy to opt in if JRiver wanted to collect them.
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MC isn't yet a complete replacement for Sage, but we're working on it.
Groovy :)
(multicard pvr server, multicard pvr server, multicard pvr server, you're getting sleeeepy, multicard pvr server, Ceton...)
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(multicard pvr server, multicard pvr server, multicard pvr server, you're getting sleeeepy, multicard pvr server, Ceton...)
To be fair, Sage can't do that either. But if that was added to MC... Well then, we'd really have something, wouldn't we?
Now, if Yaobing could only get Comcast to send someone out with a clue and a not-broken CableCard. ::)
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Today I use MC on my HTPCs mostly for its great blu-ray support. MC is the only media center I've found that can play AND make a library of a blu-ray collection without depending on any external software.
I have all my blu-rays on a nas and use Theater View as a front end on my livingroom tv, and my soon to be dedicated cinema room (projector).
I also use the Android app a lot as a controller especially when listening to music (flac) as I don't need any screens turned on then.
The only thing I really miss with MC is more visuall/layout/graphical customization options for Theater View and the Gizmo. As I partially work with graphical interface design Im a bit picky when it comes to that.
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(multicard pvr server, multicard pvr server, multicard pvr server, you're getting sleeeepy, multicard pvr server, Ceton...)
Not fogetting Elgato Nestream Sat and Nestream DTT for those not in North America with cable TV!
It would be nice if MC could take TV tuner input and stream it over DLNA. Usually, these network tuners require a PC with proprietary software at the TV, which is fine if you're one of these people who wants a HTPC at every TV in your house. But if connecting via DLNA then any (modern) standalone TV, or set top box or media player, can be used as a thin client.
Actually, there is probably not much call for streaming DTT over the network because most TVs will have DTT built-in. Cable and satellite are different though.
There is one TV card out there that is already capable of streaming to DLNA, can't remember which one it is now, not Hauppage but it's definitely one of the big well-known manfacturers. It's an add-on to their usual software. I guess it publishes a list of all the TV channels tuned in as a content directory via DLNA.
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To be fair, Sage can't do that either. But if that was added to MC... Well then, we'd really have something, wouldn't we?
Now, if Yaobing could only get Comcast to send someone out with a clue and a not-broken CableCard. ::)
Beyond TV either. I called Cox Cable tech support with a question once, they didn't even know what a QAM tuner was... ::)
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I would also support some usage statistics and would recommend jriver email for suggestions for new ideas to all users. I fail to believe that those of us that post here are "normal" in any sense of the word :)
I am surprised that the HTPC numbers are as low as 70% and presume this is a reflection of the MC audio beginnings only. Anyone posting here is computer literate and only a PC can give you the flexibility required in the current messy video world. It certainly won't be this low in a few more years as the audio folk also become video folk too (or die as only old people don't watch TV :) ).
craig
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All I use are htpc's. One in the living room. And one in the bedroom. I have a ps3 in the living room but don't usually use it for video playback. I have a stand alone blu-ray play in the bedroom but don't use that either. MC17, anydvd, makemkv, lav filters, and madvr ftw! :)
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I have 5 HTPC's in the house, 4 in bedrooms and 1 in a dedicated home cinema, all of them run XBMC and are fed from a 16TB fileserver that lives in the garage. Right now I'm experimenting with MC on the fileserver. I admit that I've not bought upgrades for a long time. (since MC 11 I think) However, every year I download a trial version and tinker a bit and every year the result is the same: MC is AWESOME in regards to control and power but without a decent 10' experience and good scraping it's useless to me, though I do realize that I'm not the target audience with my priorities being: video 95% and music 5%.
On a brighter note: Even though theater view is not on par with some of the software out there, it's still much better then the last time I tried it so I look forward to the next version :)
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Witch version are you testing? I'm asking because the video capabilities have improved a lot in v16 & 17.
I think there may be plans for scrappers also (I just tag, so my input on scrapping is really weak...).
Last but not least, Nvidia Fermi 520 ti video cards or better will yield the best video performance. Any lower on the VPU food-chain and you'll probably get some stuttering at the highest quality settings.
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Witch version are you testing? I'm asking because the video capabilities have improved a lot in v16 & 17.
I think there may be plans for scrappers also (I just tag, so my input on scrapping is really weak...).
Last but not least, Nvidia Fermi 520 ti video cards or better will yield the best video performance. Any lower on the VPU food-chain and you'll probably get some stuttering at the highest quality settings.
I'm testing MC17. If I came across as unhappy with video performance it was not my intention. It plays everything I've thrown at it so far and does it quite well :)
My comment on being a "video" person has to do with the fact that theaterview is not great. I feel that the fileserver is the only part of the HTPC "network" that should have a mouse and keyboard and therefore theaterview would be used on all other PC's.
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I totally agree regarding the no mouse-no keyboard on an HTPC running theater view. I switched from XBMC about 2 years ago, and noticed two things right off:
1) XBMC had a slightly nicer/slicker interface and a few features I had grown used to that MC didn't have
2) MC navigates funny in Theater View when using a remote.
Now, 2 years later, I'm completely used to the way MC navigates and happy. The 10' interface still isn't as flashy as XBMC, but I've grown to like it just as much. Add in the audio & video performance of MC17, and I'm really glad I switched. :)
I think tagging's a little easier in MC, now that I have learned enough to make it do what I want, but I'm pretty sure the scrapping experience is behind XBMC...
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The 10' interface still isn't as flashy as XBMC, but I've grown to like it just as much.
I like it better, in part, because it isn't as flashy.
And it is fast.
Really, really... REALLY fast.
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I like it better, in part, because it isn't as flashy.
And it is fast.
Really, really... REALLY fast.
It took a little time, but you're right. I think the simple and classy MC interface looks/feels better than a flashy one when used with nice a stereo system and TV.
And it is purdy perky (screens finish displaying about when my finger leaves a button).
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My River + Theater View = $
No mouse or keyboard required.
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I use MC17 on my HTPC.
I use it to view view video, listen to music, launch games and other applications. I enjoy the flexibility MC17 accords me. I can make playlists from netflix for tv shows and not have to keep hitting my remote to play the next episode when the previous one ends. I can launch Hulu Desktop from MC17 to view items from my Hulu plus subscription (This also makes it possible to watch web only HULU plus content on my tv). I'm hoping to incorporate my HBO GO account into MC17 soon.
That being said I also have a roku device attached to my tv that I use infrequently for content I cannot access through MC17. Although I'm finding new ways to access said content from MC17 every day.
Almost forgot this is all used through theater view and MC17 launches on my tv (in theater mode) when pc boots up.
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I answered "Tried it" but it's not the perfect response. MC is on my TV-connected PC, used for online and local video and music. MC manages the library. But I haven't found any use for Theater View. The video feed via HDMI is directly from whatever player gets invoked for a particular type of file. On the PC running MC I like to see my custom HTML Playing Now page, which displays a bunch of field values about the current track.
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I have started moving more and more to using MC on my HTPC. I have beeen using BeyondTV and WMC for TV and BluRay playback.
I recently had a problem using Anydvd to rip a BD so I tried MC and it ripped without a problem. I like the look of WMC with Media Browser for Blu-Ray playback. TMT3 plays the movie. I had trouble with a disk recently, thought I had a bad rip, but it played perfectly in MC.
Just today, BeyondTV would only display a frozen image so I tried the recording in MC and it played without a problem. I have been repeatedly surprised recently, that when my other programs fail, MC works without a hitch.
I hope this poll means you might put more time into theater view. I would like to see more focus on appearance and ease of use. I don't just mean ease of use in theater view, but throughout. There is a lot of power here but it takes a long time to understand it. I am still trying to remove duplicates from my audio collection. There are programs out there that just do that and charge for it. It seems possible to do it in MC but not without convoluted selections and sorting. If it were simple it could be touted as a feature.
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I have a HTPC that I use for everything hooked up to my Plasma TV. I tried doing TV, Movies, TV Series via JR16 but it was too much work and 'ugly' and I got outvoted. Just upgraded to JR17 and using it to play and organise my Music collection. I'll just use it for that only.
I know a lot of people like setting up all the filters,rules,etc. and all the 'power' this provides but it's a major pita. There isn't enough auto layout/skin and scraping ability in JRiver. So I'm using something else to play all my tv,series and movies via remote control. A clean automatic scraped fan art based presentation is what I need.
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When I converted my main music system to digital I found JRiver MC 7 many years ago and have stuck with it ever since for all my music needs.
However for video playback I am still on a collection of different tools that I started to used years back
- DVD profiler as the database and launch manager for the movies
- Theatertek for DVD playback. I used to have JVC G11U LCOS projector and combined with some trickey system software this allowed me to switch the frequency of the PC to support the native rate of the source material. With reclock that is no longer necessary but reclock has its own issues.
- Arcsoft Media Theatre for BluRay playback. This is pretty clunky but the playback is very stable.
Cheers
Thomas
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Yes, trying to bring up MC using Western Digital HD Plus
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A clean automatic scraped fan art based presentation is what I need.
I think the goal is to work towards this during MC17's development. You may want to try again a little later on in the MC17 cycle.
It is really very close to this right now. It just needs a few more pieces and it'll be about perfect.
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I have a dedicated media PC. Audio is slightly more of a focus for me than home theatre, and for audio, there is nothing which comes close to J River. However, the media PC is connected to the TV, and is by some margin the most used source
Since upgrading to MC17, I have been experimenting with getting rid of WMC completely, but I can't quite bring myself to do it, so will be sticking with WMC for TV-related functions for a while longer, I think. Several reasons:
1. WMC is just more intuitive when it comes to TV recording. Small things like the red icon on the EPG showing shows which will be recorded, and the recording conflict detection and resolution.
2. MC17 missed a couple of recordings I scheduled because I was not watching the TV when the 'do you wish to switch channels to make the scheduled recording' dialog was displayed. IMO this is not the behaviour I prefer to see. If I like a show enough to want to record it, then it should probably override what I am watching. At least make this behaviour an option.
3. Setting up the channels is tedious and error prone. This is especially annoying because MC16 and MC17 have what I assume is a minor parse bug for the postcode information. MC2XML *requires* that UK format postcodes have a space between the two sections (i.e. GU14<space>7LS). MC doesn't allow the space (it only passes GU14 to MC2XML) which means I need to rerun MC2XML manually after each upgrade.
4. In any event, I'm a bit uncomfortable using MC2XML. Relying on a program which needs to be downloaded from a 'secret' and ever-changing server (it originally took me nearly a week to find a functioning server for it) doesn't fill me with confidence that the program is properly legit. WMC channel configuration "just works".
5. I really rely on a couple of plug-ins for WMC which have no equivalents for MC. The big one is TunerFreeMCE, which adds support for BBC iPlayer and the other UK TV 'catch-up' services. While the UK probably isn't a big focus for you guys, iPlayer and its equivalents for the other terrestrial channels are a fabulous (and free!) resource, and hard to live without.
6. MC2XML doesn't know which 'channels' from the TV tuner are actually radio channels (in the UK we get about 40 radio channels multiplexed onto the DVB stream).
7. While alphabetical sorting of channels in the grid is a sensible default, it doesn't match the way most EPG get presented in the UK (which put e.g. all BBC channels together). This is in part because channel names coming out of MC2XML don't quite match the 'advertised' names of all channels (e.g. BBC One is OK, but we get BBC4 instead of BBC Four). This isn't the fault of MC, but an easy fix would be to allow custom ordering of channels in the grid.
Having said that, the TV support in MC17 is a huge step forward from MC16, and I guess would meet the needs of a great many outside of the UK.
In any case, MC is well worth the asking price for the audio support alone, so you can still count me a very satisfied customer :)
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I have been using MC for music for some time and TMT for movies. I became so disillusioned with TMT that I decided to try MC for movies. I have a home cinema with a projector which is very revealing. The step to Red October convinced me but still suffers frequent jumps and tears. Video Clock still isn't as good as ReClock so I still use ReClock.
The poll specifically asked about TheaterView. I never use this. I really dislike the whole MC UI. It is terribly structured and tedious to use. Like several other users, I prefer the WMC UI. It is beautifully structured and presented and has an easily usable 10 foot interface. I also use MyMovies to catalogue my movies and this integrates very well with WMC. MyMovies is so much better than the MC library. I cannot understand why JRiver don't collaborate with Brian Binnerup and get a proper integration sorted out, and I don't mean the import we have at the moment. Thanks to justsomeguy, I can now call MC as my player from within MyMovies and this works well. This means that, for movies, I don't use the MC UI at all.
I don't use MC for TV. I use WMC for this and it is excellent, albeit after some fiddling with filters.
I would love to have a single app which gave me the whole HTPC solution but MC isn't there yet.
Nick.
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I voted I use a HTPC but not with MC on it.
Although I would love to only use MC, I currently use MC on my main PC only to play music when I'm working on the pc and to maintain my library and tagging. For playing around on the HTPC I use XBMC version 11 (beta) with the Aeon Nox skin.
The reason for that is that MC currently does not offer the ease of use and extended functionality XBMC does for HTPC usage - and there are many, many, many. Then there's eye candy. Obsidian is a very nice skin but pales in comparison to some of the skins on XMBC, some of which are extremely fancy with animated icons and dynamic backgrounds.
Also with MC I find myself using more remote control clicks to maintain playlists, change views (which MC not always remembers it seems) etc. Many things can't be done from Theater view and require to drop back to the regular view - for which you're required to use the mouse and keyboard.
There are many things in MC that I miss in XBMC too though, especially the more advanced features, like gapless playback. Its just that XBMC is offering a much more integrated and seemless HTPC experience as a complete package for everything: music, movies, TV Shows, TV Guide and Pictures.
Last but not least, something I had to pay a few dollars for but oh so worth it (I wish MC had something similar - hint!), XBMC Commander, its an app for my iphone (probably for Android too I don't know). It allows me to control XBMC using swipes and gestures. Don't have to look at your phone just use your thumb to swipe on the display - genius really! It also allows to browse through music/movies with cover art and maintain playlists. Very nice if you don't want to keep your TV on all the time.
Apologies if this turned into a XBMC selling post that's not what I intended - I love MC and will continue to support it but for a pure HTPC - it's not quite there yet. I just wanted to explain my reasons for choosing one of the other for this specific purpose: HTPC. XBMC will never get installed on my pc or get write access to my music library: MC is king for that!
My 2 cents :P
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I use it for HTPC (I will classify this as using a remote and Theater View not necessarily to watch videos but to play music as well.) as do the dozen or so people I have recommended MC to. (None of them use this forum so I thought I would mention them.) If Jim would like to look he will find four from my own family (DaMommio) have a license.
That being said for the last couple of months I have been wondering if I should mention something on the forum and I guess there won’t be a better opportunity than this. I never recommend MC to anyone any longer. Never. It takes too much of my time to set someone up and solve all of the problems that always seem to be there. (17 fixed an issue I have had with my remote for the last six months or so but now when I use fast forward the movie sound disappears until I close and restart the movie. Nothing I change or try seems to solve the issue. I also had no volume control with 17 until I stepped away from Red October and specified the ffdshow audio filter, there was an issue with my thumbnails that made me remove and rescan them and several other small issues. How could someone with no computer knowledge solve these problems and more importantly why should they have to?) I installed XBMC the other day and it just worked. I literally had to do nothing but point to my media. Do I like it as much as JR? Absolutely not. I like the quality of the sound, I like my views and I like the flexibility you offer and I have purchased every upgrade for the last five years and in all likelihood will continue to purchase upgrades. But recommend JR to others? I’m sorry but in my humble opinion it is just not worth the effort.
Nedam
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Nedam,
I copied your problem report here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?board=23.0
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Hello,
I went with "Tried it," but that is not entirely correct. I used HTPC's for Sagetv and MC (for music) for a couple of years. I found that I hated having to fire up the TV to play music, so after a while I bit the bullet and went with sonos for playback and MC for all ripping and management.
When the Sagetv HD200 extenders came out I moved completely away from HTPC's. No more windows issues, codec issues etc. No more, " Daddy, the TV doesn't work again." Thin clients/extenders have just worked really well for me.
With Sagetv having been assimilated into the Gorg, I am looking for options, and I honestly believe I am just going to go with Directv's new 5 tuner DVR. I can deal with the learning curve to set up another PVR solution, but I am not willing to deal with HTPC's at every TV again. I could go with WMC, but that will require a big, loud, ugly xbox at every TV. A big loud ugly xbox that will not play my kids movie rips.
I would love to go with MC for TV, but I am not willing to fool with full on HTPC clients any more. If some sort of thin client were available I would be all over it.
M.
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I found that I hated having to fire up the TV to play music, so after a while I bit the bullet and went with sonos for playback and MC for all ripping and management.
Why do you need a TV to listen to music?
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Why do you need a TV to listen to music?
Because the only "monitors" I had attached to the HTPC's were TV's. I was using MC in theater view.
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MC is a central part of my HTPC setup, and use it both for audio and video. Loudspeaker XO and room correction is performed in the digital domain by ConvolverVST hosted by MC. I simply love the short and elegant signal path:
MC => ASIO => LynxTwo-B sound interface => Hypex UcD amplifiers
FIR filters are generated by Audiolense speaker correction software.
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Because the only "monitors" I had attached to the HTPC's were TV's. I was using MC in theater view.
Then my question is how do you control the Sonos.... which leads to my point that you dont need a TV/Monitor to control MC. Simply use a control point, e.g. an iOS app, Gizmo, another install of MC on a laptop etc.
You dont REQUIRE a monitor for MC.
Thats all,
Patrick
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Then my question is how do you control the Sonos.... which leads to my point that you dont need a TV/Monitor to control MC. Simply use a control point, e.g. an iOS app, Gizmo, another install of MC on a laptop etc.
You dont REQUIRE a monitor for MC.
Thats all,
Patrick
At the time there was no Gizmo and the only available iOS app did not function in a manner that met our needs. We did try hard to make it work for us. I don't consider a laptop a suitable option.
What finally convinced me to go with Sonos was a really good iOS controller. So to answer your question, we use our I phones to control Sonos.
If I was not now invested in Sonos I would certainly give gizmo a try.
I know a tv is not required to control MC. You do know this thread is about HTPC's attached to TV's, right?
M
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Just adding my 2 cents, like many others here have already said, my htpc is the only thing connected to my tv and MC the only thing I use on it (well at least 95%). I noticed Jim mentioned early on in the thread he predicted 1 in 4, as of now it's more like 2 out of 3.
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Because of the bitperfect gapless playback, I like MC for music on the TV (ie being able to see what is playing w/o having to go to the computer.
As for TV and movies, I need to learn how to make it look and feel the way I want. It does not have to be fancy, but the use of fanart as well as coverart and to display seasons and their episiodes in a way that looks like a good TV front end, rather than a great computer front end, I still use MB within 7mc.
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Loft computer with 24" monitor:
JRiver software, media imported here, grouped, sorted & custom tagged.
Also used exclusively for listening to music.
Bedroom computer with 37" TV:
XBMC frontend software, media via via smb share from loft computer
Living room computer with 52" TV:
XBMC frontend software, media fed via smb share from loft computer
XBMC software is a frontend software only, really no tagging features, I am looking for an all-in-one solution, JRiver is getting close.
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I use MC to:
1) Listen to Audio
2) Watch DVD and Blu-Ray rips
3) View Pictures
4) Starting to manage portable devices - but mostly this is done with iTunes.
I do not use it for viewing TV.
For the most part, MC is in Theater View. I would love to see more Theater View skins. I've tried creating my own, but I too much of noob for it. The available documentation for Theater View seems outdated and incomplete.
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At our house, MC is always in theatre mode:
Organizes and plays all the photos
Plays all our purchased audio
Played rented DVD's (until Netflix came to town)
Would play our rented audio, if last.fm (paid acct) appeared in Theatre mode
Would play our rented video (Netflix) if it weren't for that Canadian licensing glitch
We killed our satellite subscription last year, so we're purely digital now.
(Local news we get from the station website, by web browser. On OUR schedule.)
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Theater View is pretty much all I use MC for.
Would love to see the following added:
Pandora
TuneIn
A pay per audio track service.
A pay per movie service like Amazon.
Maybe a few fun games.