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More => Old Versions => Media Center 14 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: JimH on June 03, 2009, 10:49:09 am

Title: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 03, 2009, 10:49:09 am
[Edit -- this feature is now available in MC14]

For the Ten Foot Couch Potato mode, we're thinking about taking advantage of the low cost of Netbook PC's to control a Home Theater PC.

Here's how it would work:  

1.  A copy of MC would be installed on the netbook and on the HTPC across the room.

2.  At startup time on the netbook, MC would connect to the HTPC's library.  (This is similar to what now happens when you use Library Server in MC.)

3.  You could then use the netbook's MC to select what you wanted to play and to start playback, but audio and video would come from the HTPC, not the netbook.

I'm interested in whether this might solve a problem for some users.

Notes:
a.  The PC wouldn't need to be a netbook, but it would need to run Windows.
b.  The remote could be in another room (office PC starts playback on the living room HTPC).
c.  Playback on both is probably possible.

 


Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: )p( on June 03, 2009, 11:41:59 am
Oh YESSSS!

I have asked for this a few times. I now use remote desktop to get close to the feel of having the native mc gui on a tablet, in my case the Nokia n800. With the introduction of the dropdown panes this has been working very well. But running the mc gui on the tablet itself would make it even more stable and user friendly. I will certainly use this feature when I upgrade my n800 to a new tablet. Perfect would be a tablet with a slightly larger screen then my n800 running windows 7 and a nice looking docking cradle for charging...

peter
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: AoXoMoXoA on June 03, 2009, 12:45:45 pm
we have only been asking for this type of function for like ages  ;D

Please! Yes!

This is perfect!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: Pjotr on June 03, 2009, 01:45:34 pm
Good idea! At the moment I am running MC13 on a netbook as an audio player in the living room. It is connected to a NAS that stores my music data. Libraries are stored on the NAS as well. That serves me very well :)

But please resolve THIS (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?PHPSESSID=c2c155d24b12c5a81340c96e6460e8b4&topic=49868.msg341213#msg341213)  (repeated HERE (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52205.0)). Up to now not much action/reaction from the Citizens of the Universe :( Something to take serious on a netbook with a limited screen area IMHO.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: SeaDrive on June 03, 2009, 01:50:15 pm
I just asked about this last week. I think it would be a great feature!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: newsposter on June 03, 2009, 03:12:10 pm
[//thick mode on//]

Why not use a remote terminal client to connect to the HTPC?  If necessary, set up the remote session as another zone.

/think mode pause, awaiting input/
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: JimH on June 03, 2009, 03:13:51 pm
Why not use a remote terminal client to connect to the HTPC?  If necessary, set up the remote session as another zone.
WAF.  But, to each his/her own.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: DiiPii on June 03, 2009, 06:24:48 pm
YES YES YES

could we also control vid playback (please)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: MerlinWerks on June 03, 2009, 07:41:57 pm
I'd definitely be interested in this. I would have bought a netbook months ago if I could find one with the features I want (ASUS 1000HE) that comes in something other than a fingerprint-magnet glossy finish. The consumer electronics industry seems to have an obsession with piano black finishes that simply doesn't make sense. Sure it looks awesome, until you actually want to use it...

Sorry for the mini rant  ;D
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: Listener on June 03, 2009, 08:05:56 pm
I'd be very interested in this feature for audio.  I'd use standard UI mode on the netbook or laptop to control playback on my music PC.

I'm using a 15.4" screen laptop as a remote control now.  I use UltraVNC to take over control of my music PC.  This works but it is quite clunky and doesn't handle remote control in several zones.

Bill
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: zxsix on June 04, 2009, 07:12:52 pm
Also this begs for some write access from the client.
Primarily for ratings but could expand to other tags.
Should be protected to similar prompt that happens when in a pane view and you click a checkbox and pane tagging is disabled, for protection to make sure no unwanted tag changes are made.
Also should respect the /READONLY switch on the command line so it could be blocked from certain workstations.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: imugli on June 04, 2009, 07:32:30 pm
Could this support multiple instances? For instance, could I connect to and control MC instances on multiple HTPCs?

Am thinking...
Netbook (or TabletPC) in central area of house. Control what happens in Kids room (TURN THAT INFERNAL RACKET DOWN!) and start a movie in the lounge with all 3 using different PCs and instances of MC...

Then taking it one step further again, could I control the Zones connected to each instance. Eg. my lounge HTPC runs my external courtyard speakers off a separate zone.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: JimH on June 05, 2009, 06:21:48 am
I split MrHaugen's post to a new thread called Netbook Remote and Multiple Zones (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=52291.0).

Please use that thread for discussion of extending the remote to multiple zones, etc.

The first step is creation of a remote control.  Nothing more.  After that is working, we'll look at extending it.

Netbook Remote is a substitute for an ordinary remote, and intended for use from across the room.

There are many other use cases, like wall panels that can control the whole house.  That's not the purpose of this change.  Yet.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: WinoOutWest on June 05, 2009, 01:17:01 pm
I would love this as well.  Been an MC user since 9 and 95% of the time it is running on the living room HTPC/TV.  I currently use NetRemote on multiple PDAs but this would be great!  Especially if we could edit the tags/library.  With the main library running constantly from 6am - 1am it is a PIA to update tags and work in MC from the couch.  Edit capabilities for me would make this killer!

Cheers!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: dcwebman on June 05, 2009, 01:33:50 pm
This definitely looks enticing, especially since I found a refurbished netbook online for about $180. That's the cost of a decent remote. Now make it control my other devices and I'll be happy!  ;D
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: fitbrit on June 05, 2009, 02:28:01 pm
This definitely looks enticing, especially since I found a refurbished netbook online for about $180. That's the cost of a decent remote. Now make it control my other devices and I'll be happy!  ;D

Exactly what I was thinking! At the least it needs to be able to control my receiver's volume when watching movies (SPDIF/HDMI) or listening to music.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: morrison on June 05, 2009, 03:57:51 pm
Good news. I use with MC many tablet devices
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: hit_ny on June 05, 2009, 11:58:55 pm
[//thick mode on//]

Why not use a remote terminal client to connect to the HTPC?  If necessary, set up the remote session as another zone.

/think mode pause, awaiting input/

I've been doing this for many years now, it will still be faster in response time compared to the solution proposed.

But you can't do anything with the other PC which is what this proposal will supposedly solve ?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: )p( on June 06, 2009, 01:17:47 am
I've been doing this for many years now, it will still be faster in response time compared to the solution proposed.

But you can't do anything with the other PC which is what this proposal will supposedly solve ?

If its a windows pc you can also remote desktop and login under a different user. You can still use the pc as normal from a different account. That's how I have set it up.

peter
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: Daydream on June 06, 2009, 01:56:46 am
If its a windows pc you can also remote desktop an login under a different user. You can still use the pc as normal from a different account. That's how I have set it up.

peter

Windows PC is too generic. With a Windows Server OS you can do multiple RDP sessions. Otherwise you can't, unless you hack the Terminal Server libraries (on XP).
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: hit_ny on June 06, 2009, 02:25:48 am
Very good, so this proposal will be good for those with XP home then.

Is there anything else ?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote
Post by: ChrisRainman on June 06, 2009, 02:34:24 am
Great idea  :D

Up to now I am still not happy with my "MC based home entertainment center" as there seems to be no external control device perfectly fitting to MC.

When adding such a feature, I would propose to also add a kind of "view manager". As netbooks normally have a small screen with a resolution of 1024x600 all my view schemes would not work on a netbook. And swtiching them or duplicating them with less columns is also a mess.

A solution with view modes allowing to switch to a completely new set of view schemes, split views etc. would solve this problem very easy.

I am pretty sure that this issue must apply for many users. My big screen for tagging and organizing MC stuff is 24". It's easy to imagine how my MC screen would look on a netbook...
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote (ne.tremote)
Post by: JimH on June 06, 2009, 06:51:14 am
I've just posted an MC14 Preview on this board.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote (ne.tremote)
Post by: adamsp70 on June 06, 2009, 10:28:01 am
Absolutely bloody marvellous!

Worth the price of admission by itself.....
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote (ne.tremote)
Post by: richard.e.morton on June 06, 2009, 11:11:21 am
It would be fantastic if this supported a touch interface, maybe a variation on the theatreview... this would enable MIDs to be used as a nice interface to MC.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote (ne.tremote)
Post by: swinster on June 06, 2009, 12:45:31 pm
Would this work on Windows Mobile OS? Could it be made to work on this OS?

I would like to see a simple hand held device with a touch screen used as a remote - such as the new generation of touch phones. I have just got an HTC Touch Diamond 2 and this would be ideal.

Netbooks are still far to clunky to be used as a remote - and certainly will NOT pass WAF!!!

Even though the touch phone remote would be good, maybe the best type of device would be a minimum 7" touch panel display. I would like to be able to get something like a Crestron or AMX touch panel, but without the ludicrous cost of these devices. Is there anything out there that would to the same job?

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 06, 2009, 03:15:24 pm
Would this work on Windows Mobile OS? Could it be made to work on this OS?
Don't know.  Probably not without modification, but we've been wondering the same thing.
Quote
I would like to see a simple hand held device with a touch screen used as a remote - such as the new generation of touch phones. I have just got an HTC Touch Diamond 2 and this would be ideal.
Theater View should work now with touch screens.  iPhones are of course, the wrong OS.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Tolga on June 06, 2009, 05:12:36 pm
my two cents (sorry for repeation, haven't read all posts).

Scenario:

music stored at the server, accessed using cheap client computers:


Proposal:

The following functionalities should be combined seemlessly.

1. play the music at the server.
2. play music locally at the client.
3. (Optional) Send the music to another client.

Interface idea:
Those three options could be just different zones in the client computer.

More functionality:
The client user should be able to change tags/playlists in the server. (ideally only with additional write privileges)
There should be some mechanism to resolve change requests of multiple clients, but the first client should not
lock writing ability of other clients while being idle (I found that this was a problem in most MC 13 solutions).

 
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 06, 2009, 05:50:11 pm
Scenario:
music stored at the server, accessed using cheap client computers:
...

The following functionalities should be combined seemlessly.

1. play the music at the server.
2. play music locally at the client.
#2 has worked for many years, by running Library Server on the server and using MC's ability to connect to it.
#1 is what this thread is about.
Quote
3. (Optional) Send the music to another client.
I can't think why you would want that since the client can already use #2 above to connect to the server.
Quote

The client user should be able to change tags/playlists in the server. (ideally only with additional write privileges)
This is a difficult change because of multiple users.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: GrantDG on June 06, 2009, 06:47:21 pm
Some shameless self promotion...

Have you seen this (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51906.0)?

(Almost) Full remote control - with no need for a 2nd MC instance...

This includes full remote editing:

The client user should be able to change tags/playlists in the server. (ideally only with additional write privileges)

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on June 06, 2009, 07:44:24 pm
The client user should be able to change tags/playlists in the server. (ideally only with additional write privileges)
There should be some mechanism to resolve change requests of multiple clients, but the first client should not
lock writing ability of other clients while being idle (I found that this was a problem in most MC 13 solutions).
This is a difficult change because of multiple users.

This is why a proper client/server structure needs to be employed, possibly running something like SQL for storing information.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 06, 2009, 07:51:41 pm
SQL is not nearly fast enough.  MC's database is tuned for media and for speed.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on June 07, 2009, 05:53:07 am
SQL is not nearly fast enough.  MC's database is tuned for media and for speed.

Ok, but there has got to be an alternative to allow for true client server updates/edits with locking of records and roll-backs etc. I did look at Nexus DB as an embedded DB for a project a while back. I'm sure there are others
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 07, 2009, 07:21:43 am
Asus has a new Eee PC coming that looks like it would work well for this.

http://www.asus.com/News.aspx?N_ID=Qoky5bTcRplYluPj

[via Engadget.com]
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 07, 2009, 08:24:46 am
Here's a three minute demonstration video of how the remote works:

http://pix01.com/ub@ciM3
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Pjotr on June 07, 2009, 08:48:29 am
Asus has a new Eee PC coming that looks like it would work well for this.


Yes it is :) It would be great to run MC with a small touch screen EePC Netbook in Theatre view, or any other view specially adapted to a touch screen interface, either locally hooked to a server that stores the media or as a remote interface.

These Eee’s also come with a SSD. If you intend to promote them and write software for these things, please take into account the limited space on the C:/ disk. That means: Don’t store variable user data on C:/ and do not use the registry for variable user data (that can be better done with a proper .ini file IMHO). And oh yes, the small screen area. MC14 is still not adapted to it (or it is still not fixed ………….) After that is fixed these Netbooks are great with MC. But that are just details ... :D
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on June 07, 2009, 12:54:27 pm
Asus has a new Eee PC coming that looks like it would work well for this.

http://www.asus.com/News.aspx?N_ID=Qoky5bTcRplYluPj

[via Engadget.com]


I'd like to know the expected price of this. Can't think that its just a little bit overkill and I bet it will be in excess of £500.

Does anyone know of any cheaper alternatives?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: BillT on June 07, 2009, 03:55:32 pm
The cheapest way to get a touch screen netbook would be to buy a touch screen from Hong Kong and fit it to a netbook yourself. You do need to be dextrous and prepared to take the risk of damaging the netbook though!

Another option would be the Samsung Q1 series. The original is no longer available but I think the Q1 ultra with a 1024 x 600 7" screen is still sold. Should be a bit less than £500. As a remote control they should be more usable than a netbook as they don't have a keyboard to get in the way.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Mr ChriZ on June 07, 2009, 05:22:33 pm
I'm impressed with how well the machine on the right interfaces with the hob at the back.
How it knows that with certain music, I need a hot drink and starts heating the kettle  :)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: dgilgonzalez on June 08, 2009, 03:11:17 am
This is really a good idea!!!

When do you think it will be ready?

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Daydream on June 08, 2009, 03:19:18 am
$675 if you convert the advertised price for the UK launch. No word yet when and how much it'll be in US.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Chad on June 08, 2009, 10:47:16 am
I'd like to know the expected price of this. Can't think that its just a little bit overkill and I bet it will be in excess of £500.

Does anyone know of any cheaper alternatives?

Gigabyte has a smaller, older, cheaper alternative, the M912.  Guy in my office has had one for several months, really nice piece of hardware.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on June 08, 2009, 04:44:33 pm
Started looking at the Philips Pronto touch screen remote - but for £1500 no thank you.

What about the Archos 5 or 7 Internet Tablets - these run Linux so an MC remote service would need to be developed for Linux (although not sure how simple/possible this would be) - but they are also ** cool devices.

The Archos 5 can be had for just over £200 and the 7 for under £300
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Stargazer on June 08, 2009, 09:32:27 pm
Hello Jim,

Ok.....  I have been using 'NetRemote' from Promixis for remote control of MC from another desktop. 

I had not planned on looking at MC14 since you said it was very early in development, but after reading this I had to take a look.  I installed MC14, on both my media server (MS Home Server) and on my Win7RCx64 system.

And of course you know there are problems, but its off to a great start.   

I would be using this feature every singe day, if it becomes a full feature.

Please add my vote to .. PLEASE work on this. 

Thanks!!!
Doug
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 09, 2009, 08:39:44 am
Here's an example of what hardware will make possible in the next few years.  (from engadget.com (http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/04/intel-snaps-up-wind-river-looks-for-that-embedded-systems-edge/))

(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/Touchscreen_Remote/115041729_orig0.jpg)

As a touchscreen remote, it could switch between displaying buttons and graphical information.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on June 09, 2009, 11:09:34 am
I just thought I'd say a huge thanks.  I haven't had time to fully investigate this yet (I've been having a crazy two weeks in the lead-up to leaving for a week long vacation for Bonnaroo), but this looks like exactly what I asked for over in that other thread.

So, I'll give you a preliminary and as-of-yet untested "Thanks a lot!"
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Listener on June 09, 2009, 12:57:41 pm
Jim,

I tried the V14 preview Tremote feature.  I think it will be useful to me.  Thanks for adding a feature I and many others have requested and will enjoy.

There are some odd omissions in the preview:

- The playing now display on the remote PC doesn't show what's playing and with progress.

- The volume control slider and the Play/Pause and Stop buttons don't work.

- The display on the server PC does not change to fit what's displayed on the remote PC.

I'll be interested to see how the finished versions works.

Thanks again.

Bill
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 09, 2009, 01:03:16 pm
Jim,

I tried the V14 preview Tremote feature.  I think it will be useful to me.  Thanks for adding a feature I and many others have requested and will enjoy.

There are some odd omissions in the preview:

- The playing now display on the remote PC doesn't show what's playing and with progress.

- The volume control slider and the Play/Pause and Stop buttons don't work.

- The display on the server PC does not change to fit what's displayed on the remote PC.

I'll be interested to see how the finished versions works.

Thanks again.

Bill

Bill,
Thanks for the feedback.  Volume control should be working in the next build.  Maybe a couple other things.  It will probably take 4 or 5 builds to get it to the point where it's pretty useable.

Would you (or anyone else) please describe how you expect to use this?  It might help us implement it more effectively.

Thanks,

Jim
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: DiiPii on June 09, 2009, 01:44:21 pm
well here's how I intend to use it:

Scenario 1) control audio output from my HTPC from the kitchen using my HP touchsmart that sits there

Scenario 2) use my Fujitsu tablet as a wifi remote from anywhere in my house

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Listener on June 09, 2009, 02:03:52 pm
Thanks for the feedback.  Volume control should be working in the next build.  Maybe a couple other things.  It will probably take 4 or 5 builds to get it to the point where it's pretty useable.

Would you (or anyone else) please describe how you expect to use this?  It might help us implement it more effectively.

At present, I (mostly) play music from one dedicated Music PC in my home office running MC 12.  I have 3 zones defined in MC for 2 PCI soundcards and a USB audio device.  Each audio device plays music in a different room: office, library and living room.  In the office, I can use the use MC 12 directly.  (Or my wife can use UltraVNC to operate the Music PC UI from her computer in the office.)

In the library. I currently use a laptop running UltraVNC to control the UI of the Music PC.  I'd like to use the Tremote instead of a VNC client.  From the Tremote, I need to be able to

- change from one view scheme to another to select music.

- Look at at the Playing Now list.

- Look at the Recently Ripped and Recently Imported lists to pick something I just got.

- See what's playing and how far along I am in the current selection. (duration and position.)  I can't see the MusicPC from the library so I need the playing now info displayed on the Tremote.

- Use the Play/Pause and Stop buttons.  I use that a lot. I occasionally use the  Rewind, Fast Forward and the position slider to jump around in a file.  I never use the volume control; it is always set at the max.

- Change the current zone from the office to the library.  It would be a huge annoyance to have to walk back to the office to change the zone; I'll probably use the Tremote even without this feature but I'll be calling you names every time I have to get up and walk back to the office.

- Customize the Tremote menus so that I've got the same set of commands on the bottom menu that I have on MC on the Music PC.

Using the VNC client requires fairly frequent horizontal and vertical scrolling to see all of the screen image on the Music PC.  I think that the Tremote should fit properly on the laptop screen.  I'd also expect UI actions to be smoother and less clunky with the Tremote as opposed to the VNC client.

I think that my wife might use the Tremote.  The VNC client is just too techy and clunky for her to use.

--- my advanced wish list
It would be very worthwhile to be able to use more than one Tremote with each one controlling playback on a different zone.  I realize that this might be in a later, more ambitious project but I'm reporting what I'd use.

It would also have great value to me to be able to fix any tag error from the Tremote.  I find that being able to fix a tag error immediately makes the editing process painless.  I realize that this functionality gets into the multi-user issue.

Bill



Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: zxsix on June 09, 2009, 05:52:14 pm
Jim,

I have two primary uses in mind for this.

1) on a touchscreen of some sort in the theater to control what's playing movie-wise.
Currently will be using a laptop until I decide on a touch panel I can live with in my price range.

2) more often though, I'd use it for audio.  I currently have 6 zones in MC.  I'd want to be able to launch the remote piece and be able to select any one of the available zones to send the audio to.  Zone selection is easily done from the main server now, or via rivermote on the itouch.  I can't use the new feature until zone selection is added.  It currently plays on the main desktop speaker output on the main server pc.  If I was listening on those speakers, I'd just fire up MC on the main machine and wouldn't be using the remote copy.  I need to be able to select the garage or swimming pool zones, which is where I use the rivermote product currently to switch to the zone and kick off a playlist.  Rivermote works well for this, but I could envision using a laptop on the pool patio instead, simply to be able to show a larger playing now screen that we could read from the pool to see what's playing.  I'd probably roll this out in two more bedrooms after zone selection becomes a reality.

3) I'd also use it from work to listen in the "here" scenario like we can do in v13.  In this case, the desired enhancement would be some tag editing capabilities.  Rating at a minimum.

Basically the must haves are zone selection and having the now playing info showing the same correct info on both the client and the server copy of MC for the respective zones.

As mentioned before, being able to assign a custom toolbar button for each individual zone would be nice for toggling between them instead of the drop-down list or the toggle keyboard combination.
Just click each button to show the playing now for that zone in the current pane.


Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: GrantDG on June 09, 2009, 05:55:32 pm
- change from one view scheme to another to select music.
- Look at at the Playing Now list.
- Look at the Recently Ripped and Recently Imported lists...
- See what's playing and how far along I am in the current selection...
- Use the Play/Pause and Stop buttons...
- Change the current zone from...
- Customize the Tremote menus...

...UI actions to be smoother and less clunky ...

--- my advanced wish list
... each one controlling playback on a different zone.
... fix any tag error...


I'm not sure if people have missed my eariler post - but this functionality is all already available in the add-in I have written - even the 'advanced' bits.... (Well - all except for the "commands on the bottom menu")

Check out the following posts for a little history (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51906.0).

It's even got a version which is setup for Small devices (iPhone, WinMobile)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Matt on June 09, 2009, 06:08:01 pm
I'm not sure if people have missed my eariler post - but this functionality is all already available in the add-in I have written - even the 'advanced' bits.... (Well - all except for the "commands on the bottom menu")

Check out the following posts for a little history (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=51906.0).

It's even got a version which is setup for Small devices (iPhone, WinMobile)

Our hope is that building a web service server into Media Center will make work like this easier since you can build on top of a documented, supported system.  Once the SDK is a little further along, it'd be great if you took a look and let us know what we could do to help.

Keep up the great work.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Osho on June 09, 2009, 07:08:25 pm
Can I currently use the Tremote capability to control MC13 running on a remote machine? Or, do the both client (netbook) and the server (MediaPC) both have to be running MC14?

Thanks,
Osho
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: newsposter on June 09, 2009, 07:19:18 pm
If you are going to use WebKit be careful with patch levels.  GTK+ is harder to program for but it doesn't have the security baggage of WebKit.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: SeaDrive on June 10, 2009, 11:37:51 am
Hopefully the remote system will run Theater view almost exactly as it stands now. I think some skins present themselves nicely for a touchscreen interface. That said I could see some resons for other changes/features.
Currently I can change the behavior of the ENTER key in Theater View (Open Item/Menu, etc) This setting does not change th ebehavior of a mouse click. Honestly if I don't want the item to open on Enter I probably don't want it to open on a mouse click. For example, I want to click on a playlist and be able to choose a playlist and select Play All from the menu not open the item and list all of the contents. A touchscreen interface would behave just like a mouse click and wouldn't be very intuitive.

Optionally, as far as new behavior in MC14, I currently use Netremote for remote control and notice some possible features that would really extend the scope of MC. The option of playing back media on the server or client PC is great. However, can this eventually be set by media type? Suppose I have an audio playlist playing on the host PC and I want to browse through images on the remote PC? could we have the capability of starting playback of an image slideshow on the client while leaving the audio playback on the server alone?

Maybe this is already something that can be accomplished with zones. Although this zone configuration seems as though it would be diffucult for a less experienced user (my wife) to initiate playback of the alternate zones.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 10, 2009, 01:22:31 pm
Hopefully the remote system will run Theater view almost exactly as it stands now.
It's identical.  It gets its settings from the server.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on June 10, 2009, 01:31:42 pm
The more I think about this, the more I think you need to be able to cope with multiple remote units that are able to control any client - which includes the server.

You need to be able to pick up a remote and control the nearest device to you, but if you move location you also need to be able to control the device in the next location.

I see zones as being able to define a location and/or media type. Not sure if zones in you current implementation works like this. Essentially, I would see the server as the central point and each zone could be a place (e.g. living room, which might also be the server machine), or group of devices (e.g. kitchen + living room, ground floor, whole house etc). You might even be able to have something like sub-zones - i.e. device that will play music, or where you can watch video.

A remote needs to be able to send the correct media to the correct zone, simply and effectively. It also needs to be able to see what media is playing in what zone or device.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 10, 2009, 01:37:10 pm
The more I think about this, the more I think you need to be able to cope with multiple remote units that are able to control any client - which includes the server.
This works already.  Multiple PC's can connect to a single server and control it.  Any client can also connect to multiple servers.

It's pretty neat.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: raldo on June 10, 2009, 01:57:09 pm
This works already.  Multiple PC's can connect to a single server and control it.  Any client can also connect to multiple servers.

Can you run the remote client on the same PC as the server?

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on June 10, 2009, 02:09:03 pm
This works already.  Multiple PC's can connect to a single server and control it.  Any client can also connect to multiple servers.

It's pretty neat.

Yeah but, is the remote device the third link in the chain:

i.e. Server --> Client (such as a streaming device, or another PC). Then you have the remote device.

Does the 'remote' control just the server or a client that is connected to the server, or both?

So, if there is an HTPC in the living room which acts as the main server, then you have a mini PC in the bedroom connected to a TV as a client, does the remote unit control the server or the client? My feeling is that it needs to control the client (the mini PC), just as a traditional remote would.

However, say you are having a party and have multiple devices all over the house (lets say two upstairs - one in a spare room and one in the bathroom(!), and three downstairs - the living room (main server), kitchen and back room). You want chill out stuff upstairs, but something more lively downstairs. Somehow the remotes needs to be able to cope with all of this. Does the server 'push' music to the clients/zones, or do the clients still need to pull the music? You may have the actual devices hidden so control may not be able to be done directly through the client.

Not sure if any of this makes any sense to you, but it kinda makes sense to me.

Having said all of this, I really need to look at what MC13 can do in this scenario already, but my house or PC set-up isn't quite there yet.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 10, 2009, 02:21:00 pm
I have a feeling that we're descending into a confusing discussion.  Better, perhaps, to try it.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: mojave on June 10, 2009, 05:10:35 pm
Bill,
Thanks for the feedback.  Volume control should be working in the next build.  Maybe a couple other things.  It will probably take 4 or 5 builds to get it to the point where it's pretty useable.

Would you (or anyone else) please describe how you expect to use this?  It might help us implement it more effectively.

Thanks,

Jim

The volume control works for me (with both the mouse and using the volume buttons on the keyboard), but the Play/Pause do not work either.

I work in an office with two desks. I am here during the day and someone else is in the office in the evening. I am the only one with an amplifier and speakers. I would like to share my library with my coworker and allow him to play it with my amp & speakers without having to log onto my computer.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on June 11, 2009, 12:39:08 pm
Here's another thought, would it be possible to develop the remote interface using flash? A lot of devices (even WM from 6.5) will be able to render flash, including some cheap (ish) touch screen MP3 players, such as the Cowon range.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 11, 2009, 12:49:22 pm
The volume control works for me (with both the mouse and using the volume buttons on the keyboard), but the Play/Pause do not work either.
Try 14.0.11.  Play and pause should work now.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: mojave on June 11, 2009, 01:37:32 pm
It works great, now. Thanks.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: flac.rules on June 11, 2009, 03:08:02 pm
Sounds like an extremly nice feature. Especially if it can be made to work with MID and Mobile phones. Seems like MC14 is shaping up to be a really nice upgrade.

EDIT: and touch-screen support
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on June 13, 2009, 05:38:15 am
Is controlling a client possible? My setup is a server in a closet, connecting to this I have a htpc in the living room. The htpc is connected as a client to the server via MC. I'd like to control the htpc with my laptop.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 13, 2009, 08:03:54 am
Is controlling a client possible? My setup is a server in a closet, connecting to this I have a htpc in the living room. The htpc is connected as a client to the server via MC. I'd like to control the htpc with my laptop.
You can connect to any PC that is running Library Server.  You will learn more by trying it.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on June 13, 2009, 08:50:26 am
I've tried and it doesn't work I'm afraid. Connectiing to serverpc from laptop is ok, htpc to serverpc is ok. Laptop to htpc serving local library ok, but connecting from laptop to htpc when htpc is connected to serverpc results in error.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 13, 2009, 09:12:18 am
I've tried and it doesn't work I'm afraid. Connectiing to serverpc from laptop is ok, htpc to serverpc is ok. Laptop to htpc serving local library ok, but connecting from laptop to htpc when htpc is connected to serverpc results in error.
How does the HTPC connect to the Server?  Are you using Library Server for that also?  You could try a Windows shared directory.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on June 13, 2009, 09:50:43 am
The htpc is connected via library server yes. All files are shared using windows already, the network path is used in the library as well.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: SeaDrive on June 13, 2009, 12:35:09 pm
Just installed 11 and I love it. I'm really enjoying the client/server control.

Great work!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: SeaDrive on June 13, 2009, 01:00:08 pm
As I play with it I can't help but ask. Will there eventually be the ability to manage DSP settings, etc from a client?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 15, 2009, 11:28:00 am
Slashgear reports that the Asus Eee PC T91 will be available in the U.S. this week.

T91 page at Ausus (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=164&l3=0&l4=0&model=2851&modelmenu=1)

(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/Asus_Eee_PC_T91/315842299_orig0.jpg)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on June 15, 2009, 03:05:01 pm
Slashgear reports that the Asus Eee PC T91 will be available in the U.S. this week.

T91 page at Ausus (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=164&l3=0&l4=0&model=2851&modelmenu=1)


Looks like it will be £500 in the UK. A little pricey for a remote.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 15, 2009, 06:21:38 pm
Prices go down.  Power goes up.  We're getting close to something that is game changing, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: skeeterfood on June 17, 2009, 11:44:33 am
Slashgear reports that the Asus Eee PC T91 will be available in the U.S. this week.
T91 page at Ausus (http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=24&l2=164&l3=0&l4=0&model=2851&modelmenu=1)

Now I just need a simple way to wall mount it behind a frame with dedicated power to use as a wall touch-screen!

-John
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Stargazer on June 17, 2009, 10:00:19 pm
Bill,
Thanks for the feedback.  Volume control should be working in the next build.  Maybe a couple other things.  It will probably take 4 or 5 builds to get it to the point where it's pretty useable.

Would you (or anyone else) please describe how you expect to use this?  It might help us implement it more effectively.

Thanks,

Jim



Hello Jim....  My set up is as follows... Windows Home Server, with two Hauppauge HVR-1800 TV ATSC/Analog Tuner cards, two HDDs with MP3 and FLACs.  The sound output is connected to my componet stereo system.   

My second (main) system, is Windows 7 x64 RC based (was Vista x64 Ultimate, and before that XP Pro x32). This is used for my day to day tasks, internet, email, games, etc. 

I use Beyond TV Link (connects to Beyond TV on the Server), to watch TV on the main system (fullscreen on a second monitor), then the server (with the cards installed) can record shows even if I'm playing a game on the main system. 

I also use NetRemote, to control MC for playing music on the server through my stereo.   I do not play the music from the main system, as I may be playing a game, or other thing and do not want to interupt playback.    I only really need basic palyback controls and library access, and tag editing could come in handy for quick updates.

Thinking about it a little.... having MC running on my main system in a window (fullscreen is only available now), displaying theater/3D/Showroom view, to control MC running on the server would be nice.

I also have a Roko Soundstage in a bedroom to stream from MC on the server.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: MrHaugen on June 18, 2009, 05:06:14 am
I hope this will enable me to:

1. Start playback of music on my HTPC and progress bar and caption as well as playing now is updated on the client.
2. I also hope that this happens for Video as well. Except that I want the Video to go to Fullscreen automaticly on the HTPC/Server (if it's configured that way), or with a double tap or command on the client side. I'd like this to work this way both from standard view or Theater View.
3. I'd also like the zones to be available so you can control all zones on the HTCP/Server from the remote.

I don't know if it's hard to do, but it should not be necessary to bring the video to the client imo. It would mainly be used to start playback somewhere else. Thumbnail updates on the client as well as rating possibilities would be nice touch though.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 18, 2009, 06:35:52 am
1. Start playback of music on my HTPC and progress bar and caption as well as playing now is updated on the client.
2. I also hope that this happens for Video as well. Except that I want the Video to go to Fullscreen automaticly on the HTPC/Server (if it's configured that way), or with a double tap or command on the client side. I'd like this to work this way both from standard view or Theater View.
3. I'd also like the zones to be available so you can control all zones on the HTCP/Server from the remote.
#1 and #2 work now.  #3 is more complicated.  We'll do it after we have the first part working well.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: SeaDrive on June 18, 2009, 02:47:19 pm
#1 and #2 work now.  #3 is more complicated.  We'll do it after we have the first part working well.

#1 works great.
#2 behavior is a bit more complicted. Client and Server are configured as follows:
Jump on Play (Audio) Playing Now
Jump On Play (Video) Display View (Even in Playing Now)

Assuming that I'm in theater view, I would expect that when selecting an audio file I would go to Playing now and a video file would go to Display View. It doesn't always behave this way. I did some testing and this is what I found.

a) If the server is in Theater View's Playing Now and the client starts an audio playlist the server's screen jumps to display view. (wrong?)
b) If the server is in Theater View's Playing Now and the client stars a video file the server's screen jumps to display view (correct)
c) If the Server is in Theater View's Playing Now and is currently playing a playlist and I add a video file as Next to Play, when the track switches to the video the server remains in Playing Now view and doesn't switch to Display View. (wrong?)

'a' is a problem for obvious reasons. 'c' is a problem because if I just choose Play when selecting the video file I lose my currently loaded playlist.



Just to add one other quick observation that may already be known. When adding tracks to Playing Now from the client the on-screen track listing display is not updated on the client until the current track is either stopped and restarted or the track is changed.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 24, 2009, 02:22:05 pm
Here's another device that might work:

(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/mintpad/45298679_orig4.jpg)

mintpad -- around $150, running WinCE

photos (http://pix01.com/Tc@AJTu)

description (http://www.pocketables.net/2009/03/tiny-mintpass-mintpad-breaking-out-of-korea.html)

specs (http://products.pocketables.net/products/?id=490)

via engadget
Title: Re: Mintpad
Post by: cncb on June 24, 2009, 02:45:05 pm
That's interesting.  Do you think MC could run on this or would it be a browser-based control?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 24, 2009, 02:53:32 pm
That's interesting.  Do you think MC could run on this or would it be a browser-based control?
We're not sure how much work it would take to run on WinCE but it is probably possible.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: ThoBar on June 24, 2009, 06:59:50 pm
We're not sure how much work it would take to run on WinCE but it is probably possible.
Oooh... how close is WinCE to WinMobile? *hint*
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: datdude on June 24, 2009, 11:48:35 pm
Turn that into a mouse pad, D-Pad, and keyboard, and you have the perfect remote (so long as the battery lasts and it is responsive at all times).
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 25, 2009, 08:41:04 am
Another possibility.  Running only Linux at the moment...

http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/

(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/Touchbook_from_alwaysinnovating/13268964_orig0.jpg)

$299 for screen only (Tablet PC), $99 for keyboard.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: DiiPii on June 25, 2009, 09:39:56 am
I love where you're going with this. It's sooooo how I was wanting to use MC. I think it's something that sets MC out from the crowd. Well done.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 25, 2009, 09:55:01 am
Thanks.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: ThoBar on June 25, 2009, 10:14:28 pm
Another possibility.  Running only Linux at the moment...

http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/

$299 for screen only (Tablet PC), $99 for keyboard.
Of some relevance to the OS on what is a very nice concept... http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=2953
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Rob L on June 27, 2009, 04:49:37 am
This sold MC14 for me. I used to use Netremote - both from PCs and Windows Mobile devices - and fiddled around with the HTTP-type interfaces. But this is MUCH better. The same consistent interface wherever you are.

And it's working great.

At the moment, I'm just using it to control the HTPC that's connected to a 60" TV that I don't want on most of the time when I'm playing music. OK, the web interface works OK for that, but as I say, this is MUCH better.

I'm probably shortly going to set it up so that another zone sends to a pair of bluetooth speakers elsewhere in the house as a different zone, and then I'll use one of my laptops there to control it.

And elsewhere, I have a couple of soundbridges. Jamcast allows me to intercept the audio from the "server" PC and stream it to those, so now I have a good way of controlling what gets streamed to them.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record though, I do wish you'd have a look at the APIs for handling WMA DRM - I've posed about this before, and it would be great if both the UPnP server and now this could handle it. It IS possible; Windows Media Player does it already - I realise Microsoft should know how to! - but so does Jamcast and they've probably got less resources working on that than you have ;-) I just feel that I should be able to play ALL the content on each of the PCs, not just some of it, and have to worry about which I can and can't listen to. It would be nice to know that this was at least on the wishlist even if it's number 999 :-)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: raldo on June 27, 2009, 05:21:18 am
mintpad -- around $150, running WinCE

There is an interesting spinoff here: At last, a player for WinCe, Pocket PC, WinMobile? At the core, those OSes are the same...
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on June 27, 2009, 06:48:24 am
There is an interesting spinoff here: At last, a player for WinCe, Pocket PC, WinMobile? At the core, those OSes are the same...
Perhaps possible.  We don't know yet.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: skeeterfood on July 01, 2009, 10:52:20 pm
I think I have another couple of important feature requests.

I can add items to a "There:" Zone, but I can't re-order them or delete items once I've added them via tRemote.

Also, other than Clear Playing Now, none of the right-click options to a "There:" Zone seem to have any effect.

-John
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: datdude on July 02, 2009, 01:15:05 am
The MC client still crashes for me if i turn off the server while using the remote playing there

Can the client wake the server from sleep?

Is it possible to set the default zone on client start up to the server?

Can the client not download the entire library on startup?

Can the client automatically post changes to tags?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: fitbrit on July 05, 2009, 01:03:08 pm
I don't use my Dell Axim X51V much since I got mu iPhone. If this will work with WinMobile, I'd be over the moon. I'm going to hold onto my Axim for a few more months in hope...
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JONCAT on July 06, 2009, 12:20:23 pm

2) more often though, I'd use it for audio.  I currently have 6 zones in MC.  I'd want to be able to launch the remote piece and be able to select any one of the available zones to send the audio to.  Zone selection is easily done from the main server now, or via rivermote on the itouch.  I can't use the new feature until zone selection is added.  It currently plays on the main desktop speaker output on the main server pc.  If I was listening on those speakers, I'd just fire up MC on the main machine and wouldn't be using the remote copy.  I need to be able to select the garage or swimming pool zones, which is where I use the rivermote product currently to switch to the zone and kick off a playlist.  Rivermote works well for this, but I could envision using a laptop on the pool patio instead, simply to be able to show a larger playing now screen that we could read from the pool to see what's playing.  I'd probably roll this out in two more bedrooms after zone selection becomes a reality.

3) I'd also use it from work to listen in the "here" scenario like we can do in v13.  In this case, the desired enhancement would be some tag editing capabilities.  Rating at a minimum.

Basically the must haves are zone selection and having the now playing info showing the same correct info on both the client and the server copy of MC for the respective zones.

As mentioned before, being able to assign a custom toolbar button for each individual zone would be nice for toggling between them instead of the drop-down list or the toggle keyboard combination.
Just click each button to show the playing now for that zone in the current pane.


I have the same concerns/thoughts as zxsix.

Tremote will give JRiver another edge on all other competitors; this is HUGE. THE biggest issue right now in digital hi-fi is streaming high-res (people spending 2K on Transporters). If we can implement Tremote as connected to zones that would be ground-breaking.

I think you need to come at this from the server; it should LOOK for other instances of JRiver ("netzones") and attach to them automatically. PUSH. Then we simply use something to control the master: UltraVNC, iphone (rivermote), a laptop running an instance of initial version of Tremote - retain the ability to have this link between one master and one controller besides the netzones. While using multiple sound cards in one angle, more realistic is the use of the existing wireless network imo.

Think about it, if you are sticking netbooks or mini-ITX HTPCs around the house in order to connect them to DACs or powered speakers, you don't want them all sitting out in full view - they don't need to be front ends. We do need to use PCs in order to retain the flexibility of MC14. Sure it's nice to have a touchscreen as a remote too which is why I think development should look into push (from master to netzones) but also keep the remote control angle. I think it's safe to say, people have some kind of master system or HTPC (I for one prefer wired storage over NAS) which I already have control of via Gyration remote, wireless mouse, wireless keyboard, and iPhone. What we need is a way to retain the option of a PC as remote for the master but add a JRiver UPnP solution where one can control playback on other PCs.

EDIT - I did see Jim mention the possibility of playback on the host/master machine which is running Tremote. This would be excellent, but I hope the other PCs it would control could be easily accessed with a (Net)Zone feature on the master (i.e. just like we switch between traditional zones).

This could mean a LOT of business for JRiver, but I'm not sure the current implementation has any use for me.

My master HTPC is connect to my hi-fi. I have some hard wired zones out of the EMU1616m for outdoor speakers and I currently use RiverMote to control my zones. If I want to "spread out", I would implement a netbook and use Tremote but I would still be bound to either taking my main instance of JRiver on the HTPC offline in order to connect (maybe run 2nd instance though) via Tremote to the netbook, or I would have to have my laptop out. Hopefully, this isn't how Tremote works, or would work.

I think the eloquence and ingenuity of what you are developing lies in the fact that you already have zones and Tremote, but you need netzones  ;)

DC
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on July 06, 2009, 02:31:33 pm
Another possibility.  Running only Linux at the moment...

http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/

(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/Touchbook_from_alwaysinnovating/13268964_orig0.jpg)

$299 for screen only (Tablet PC), $99 for keyboard.
Now were getting to reasonable money. I think no more than £200 could be dedicated to a device who's main purpose would be a remote. Does Linux have a Flash player? The interface could be designed in Flash and that would open up a world of cross platform - eventually even Windows Mobile......
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on July 06, 2009, 02:57:00 pm
I've tried and it doesn't work I'm afraid. Connectiing to serverpc from laptop is ok, htpc to serverpc is ok. Laptop to htpc serving local library ok, but connecting from laptop to htpc when htpc is connected to serverpc results in error.

Just thought I'd say, this is exactly my issue with having the Tremote tied to the Library Server.  The issue basically comes down to this: The Library Server feature doesn't have much to do with remote control, and the two uses can conflict.  Consider my setup:

1. I have a PC hidden away in back room (we'll call this the Server PC).  It has a very large RAID-5 volume on it, where effectively all my media lives.  This volume is mounted on every machine on the network as Drive M.  The library is also located on Drive M.  I would like to run MC on this machine as a service, and have it serve the library to all other machines in the house via the Library Server function.  (Currently I cannot due to video performance issues with using Library Server, but that is another issue completely unrelated to this issue.)  While I do actually use MC on this machine occasionally (when I happen to be doing work in that room and want to listen to music or watch something), it is mostly just a server sitting there running 24/7.  It could just as easily be a completely headless box with no sound card stuck in a closet somewhere if I had a closet with adequate cooling to do so.

2. I have a HTPC in the living room.  It accesses effectively all of it's media on the network drive (M as mentioned earlier).  I would like to connect to the "Server PC" and access the shared library from that machine, never using MC in "local library" mode on the HTPC.

3. I have an office PC downstairs in my "man-lair".  This is where I do the majority of my "tagging" work, though I do also do some of it from my laptop and directly from the HTPC.  I would also like to connect this machine to the library served by the "Server PC".  Connecting to the library server would give me all the benefits of allowing multiple MC-clients to connect and modify the library simultaneously, which is why I want to use that feature.  My wife can be watching TV on the HTPC while I tag media files downstairs, and my play counts and whatnot won't get all messed up.

4. I have a laptop that also accesses Drive M, while I'm at home on my fast wireless network.  While I'm away, I also have a 2TB drive I can carry with me that has an always-updated clone of the Drive M RAID (which also serves as a convenient redundant backup of the RAID drives should I suffer multiple drive failure or some other catastrophic problem).  I use this laptop to watch shows up in the bedroom a lot, and other things like that.  I'd like to sometimes use this to connect to the Library Server on the Server PC, and sometimes use it with a local library on the laptop's drive, and sometimes use it with the duplicate of Drive M on the big, honking, external drive, and lastly sometimes use it in Tremote mode.  I also have an EeePC 1000H that I'd sometimes like to use for Tremote type purposes.

All this is fine, except for when I add in Tremote to the mix.  If I want to use Tremote, it would effectively NEVER be used to control and play back media on the "Server PC" (because that machine is off in a back-room and hidden from most people).  If I want to control something, it would almost always be the HTPC.  Maybe occasionally the downstairs "man-lair" PC (there's beer and dartboards and party-friendly stuff down there).  Sometimes, I might even want to remote control the laptop using the 1000H (if I have the laptop outside hooked up to some speakers for an outdoor party).  But the VAST majority of the time it'd be the HTPC.

The problem is, that I can only "remote control" the Server PC, which is useless.  That's about the ONLY machine that I'll never want to remote control.  In fact, most of the time the speakers hooked up to it (just little cheap desktop jobs) are turned off!

The Tremote feature has nothing to do with the Library Server function (from a USE perspective).  I can certainly see why, programatically, it makes sense that they go together (they both need to load the remote system's library) but in actual use, they would often conflict.

More and more, I think people who do have HTPCs will be storing their media on remote systems.  My main reason for doing so is noise and size.  In order to store all my media in a reliable fashion, I need a BUNCH of drives.  This requires a big box with a bunch of cooling.  I don't want all of that sitting in my living room.  A perfect HTPC should be tiny, silent, and have nothing on its single hard drive but the software it needs to run.  Any media can be served up off the network.  However, if I want to remote control something with my fancy touch-screen netbook, it is probably going to be the HTPC, not the server-room machine in the closet!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on July 06, 2009, 03:14:45 pm
If the above explanation is too long for you, I'll boil it down:

If you want to use the Library Server feature AND the Tremote feature of MC14, but you don't want to use Tremote to control the computer that is serving the library (or want to remote control multiple, different machines) you can't do it.  You can only use Tremote to control the Library Server machine, and not any of the clients.  You are forced to choose between these two features.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Listener on July 06, 2009, 03:33:00 pm
Glynor and Doc Cilantro,

I read your posts whenever I see them.  There is one thing I object to in your recent posts in this thread:  you both seem to be saying that the current tremote functionality should not be included but to do what you needs instead.

I've been waiting a long time for the ability to use MC on a laptop to control playback on a server PC.  It may not be what you want but it will be very useful to me.

I think that JRiver should provide a toolkit of network functionality.  The existing Library Server functionality is useful in some cases.  The Tremote capability to control playback from a PC acting as a remote will be useful in some cases.  Being able to FULLY control MC from an even smaller device will be useful in some cases.  Having storage, control and playback on 3 PCs with 3 instances of MC will be useful too.

I'd hate for this discussion to turn into a "Do what I want and not what he wants" argument.

Bill

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on July 06, 2009, 04:36:46 pm
Glynor - your system set-up is similar to what mine will be, and I too can see an issue with the media being served from the actual server! To this end, I am forced to install the quietest drives I can (also decoupled) in my HTPC.

I have been reading this thread for a while and have bought MC13/14 with the idea that all units it s installed on will be fully controllable from any device. I had thought that ANY remote device would be able to control ANY MC unit, not just the server. Controlling the endpoints is vital in overall functionality I feel. Surely, this must be achievable?

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: WinoOutWest on July 06, 2009, 05:02:22 pm
I have a similar setup except the Library Server runs on the HTPC and not the server.  HTPC is setup to start @ 6am everyday and shuts down every night automatically.  Server is on 24 x 7 and is simply a data repository.  So for me the current functionality works - although MC14 crashes constantly so I am not using it regularly yet.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on July 06, 2009, 10:57:43 pm
There is one thing I object to in your recent posts in this thread:  you both seem to be saying that the current tremote functionality should not be included but to do what you needs instead.

Woah.  Simmer down there!  I'd suggest no such thing.  I just think it can be done better, I'd by-no-means suggest they take either feature out (not that they'd listen to me if I were anyway).  That's absurd on the face of it.

The problem isn't one of technology with Tremote, which works unbelievably well in it's current implementation.  It is mostly UI-design that creates the current limitation, which is by-no-means insurmountable.  This is a product in an early phase of development.  I think JRiver encourages, and depends on, the feedback from their users (especially now).
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on July 06, 2009, 11:33:46 pm
MC14 crashes constantly so I am not using it regularly yet.
If you haven't, please start a thread.  See the "Stability" link in my signature.

Update DirectX from Microsoft if you haven't done so.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Sheugel on July 08, 2009, 12:56:03 pm
The future Archos 9 looks promising for the Tremote! :
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3007/archos9intro.th.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/i/archos9intro.jpg/)

http://www.archos.com/products/nb/archos_9/index.html?country=us&lang=en
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Daydream on July 08, 2009, 03:11:30 pm
The future Archos 9

I was just thinking about it. :) Rumors are it's gonna be ~$500 in US.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JONCAT on July 09, 2009, 04:45:34 am
Glynor's system compared to mine makes a point:

My main HTPC is my "server". I have a 5TB box on a long E-Sata cable.

So whether we have a true server tucked away or a main "serving" HTPC, the system needs to be designed for control at the server, and pushing out via remote control. I understand some want to be able to remote control another PC running JRiver with the GUI, and not just the web-interface. I say fine, integrate that into the future of Tremote.

However, the future of this calls for a fully functional system of control.

I still see this as a zone issue. You pick the server or your main HTPC, where-ever your data is stored, and have zones & netzones: other PCs can search for a Library Server (or maybe be detected by the server) and once connected show up as a netzone on the master machine (the server or main HTPC, any system you choose as the "master" box).

This offers flexibility given that some will use a master box tucked away, NAS, or hardwired data storage.

There is no reason, given the aformentioned proposal, that another PC could not act as a remote control for any other instance of JRiver (a tablet/Archos 9 mounted in your kitchen wall). Actually, this would be desired as one could then control the master and have access to all zones/netzones.

It's a big loop but it offers a LOT of functionality, and if ever executed properly, would seem to give everyone what they are asking for. Plus, current remotes/plugins are already familiar with JRiver zones.

LISTENER - I hear what you are saying. Actually, I currently have no real need for any of this, but could in the future; I'm honestly just trying to come at this from a logical systems analysis persepective, hoping everyone can find merit in the solution.

cheers,
DC

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: aussie1 on July 11, 2009, 09:00:52 pm
My setup is similar to Glynor's. I have a server PC used for storage of all of my music, pictures and video. MC runs on this machine and the library is shared through library server.  In other rooms, HTPCs use MC locally to connect to the Server PC to access the shared library through library server. The HTPCs do not use local libraries. Some of these HTPCs control multiple zones.

Many others place multiple audio/video cards in their server machine and pipe everything around the house from there. For my situation, I prefer to have a thin, quiet client machine that accesses data over the network located next to the receiver/amp and TV. This allows me to browse the web or access other files/applications and play them on the TV and receiver/amp in addition to playing all of my media through MC. By connecting to the library on the server machine, I only need to maintain one version of my library.

Thus, I think controlling both the server machine and multiple client machines is important. In order for me to make use of Tremote, I would need to be able to control MC on my local HTPCs.

S
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on July 12, 2009, 11:17:05 am
I  thought I'd mention that I don't want to use the HTPC for my Library Server because the HTPC does a bunch of other stuff that makes it an unreliable server.  For example, I actually use mine for gaming (hence the Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 3.6GHz and the Radeon HD4870 1GB), and when I'm running games I don't like to keep a bunch of services running.  I reboot it sometimes for other OSes (I actually have a couple of old DOS games that are still fun) and whatnot.  Plus, since I use the living room machine for gaming, I keep it heavily overclocked and tweaked all the time, which sometimes requires being shut down for full days of testing when I modify something or decide to tweak it for additional performance.

Part of the POINT of how my HTPC is set up is that it is completely unnecessary for the rest of my network to keep running.  It is a client, that I can take down, reboot, and shut services down on without a care in the world.  The server will keep recording my TV shows, serving my media, and the rest for me and for the rest of the machines on my network.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on July 12, 2009, 03:48:36 pm
The server will keep recording my TV shows, serving my media, and the rest for me and for the rest of the machines on my network.

Glynor - just out of interest, what do use for the TV Shows (MC, MythTV, MediaPortal, other) with what hardware (DVB-T, DVB-S or DVB-C). Does this setup enable ordinary TV watching through the HTPC? Off topic I know, but intrested in you setup as this is almost identical to the way I am going.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on July 13, 2009, 09:29:43 am
Glynor - just out of interest, what do use for the TV Shows (MC, MythTV, MediaPortal, other) with what hardware (DVB-T, DVB-S or DVB-C). Does this setup enable ordinary TV watching through the HTPC? Off topic I know, but intrested in you setup as this is almost identical to the way I am going.

I'll reply in a PM to avoid polluting the thread with off-topic things.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on July 15, 2009, 02:09:31 pm
Here's a review of the Asus Eee PC T91 touchscreen:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/07/15/asus-eee-pc-t91-review/
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JONCAT on July 15, 2009, 02:24:38 pm
Exactly, and since everyone designs a storage/playback system that offers their desired level of flexibilty and usability, it would seem logical to allow the user to choose which system is the master.

DC

I  thought I'd mention that I don't want to use the HTPC for my Library Server because the HTPC does a bunch of other stuff that makes it an unreliable server.  For example, I actually use mine for gaming (hence the Core 2 Quad Q9550 @ 3.6GHz and the Radeon HD4870 1GB), and when I'm running games I don't like to keep a bunch of services running.  I reboot it sometimes for other OSes (I actually have a couple of old DOS games that are still fun) and whatnot.  Plus, since I use the living room machine for gaming, I keep it heavily overclocked and tweaked all the time, which sometimes requires being shut down for full days of testing when I modify something or decide to tweak it for additional performance.

Part of the POINT of how my HTPC is set up is that it is completely unnecessary for the rest of my network to keep running.  It is a client, that I can take down, reboot, and shut services down on without a care in the world.  The server will keep recording my TV shows, serving my media, and the rest for me and for the rest of the machines on my network.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Efjay on July 16, 2009, 11:43:34 am
I am not a computer guy so perhaps I missed the answer in the thread but does this mean that the netbook would function as a remote in a manner different than simply running library server? And, can this be run with a monitor (say, to display the playing now on a monitor but run the program through the netbook.)?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on July 16, 2009, 01:31:45 pm
I am not a computer guy so perhaps I missed the answer in the thread but does this mean that the netbook would function as a remote in a manner different than simply running library server? And, can this be run with a monitor (say, to display the playing now on a monitor but run the program through the netbook.)?
The description is in my first post.

It's different in that the playback is on the PC across the room.  It's for use as a remote from a couch, for controlling the playback of the machine across the room.  The function is just what you'd expect from a remote.  This will seem less strange as the hardware evolves into small touch screen PC's.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: ThoBar on July 17, 2009, 01:23:01 am
Check this touch screen device out....

http://gizmodo.com/5163636/asus-eee-keyboard-pc-should-arrive-in-may-or-june-for-400+600

Now an MC control interface on tis would be NICE
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on July 17, 2009, 03:11:40 am
Check this touch screen device out....

http://gizmodo.com/5163636/asus-eee-keyboard-pc-should-arrive-in-may-or-june-for-400+600

Now an MC control interface on tis would be NICE

Ouch - price $400-$600 for a keyboard and tiny display.......
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on July 29, 2009, 08:47:22 am
Here's a CNET article (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10297819-1.html?tag=newsLeadStoriesArea.1) on the general lack of success for touch screen devices in the past.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Shiraz on July 30, 2009, 04:03:16 pm
I've been using my eeePC (the original, 701) as my remote for a few weeks now with MC14 to very good effect. I like it much better than remote desktopping (faster, smoother). I use this in combo with Airfoil (affordable WLAN audio streaming) so that my little white eeepc controls all the music in my house. I'm really looking forward to tremote implementing automatic library synchronization so I can tag with the client without needing to manually sync afterwards. Once that's in, I think it'll be pretty polished.

What would be be suuuuuuuuuuper sweet is if J River could dedicate some coding resources to implementing something like Airfoil right into Media Center -- this would be a killer Media Center 15 feature and a logical next step I would think -- combined with Tremote enough to even be the primary marketing tool, I would think ("Media Center now streams wirelessly to different rooms in your house, controllable via any computer in your house or via wireless remote!").

Getting back to the now, Airfoil in particular is sweet because their speaker client software is free so you can stream to any computer in the house that's hooked up to speakers.... OR you can stream to any Apple Airfoil Express router (they have line outs) which are pretty cheap on eBay, thus it's modular and much cheaper than dedicated streaming solutions.. this in combo with tremote is ultimately a lot better than stuff like Sonos because you get the deluxe Media Center interface instead of the severely limited interfaces.

To the poster above, you can order touch screens for the different sized eeePC's from dealextreme.com for super cheap. So if you get a used 701 and a touch screen you're coming out way ahead then buying the dedicated touch screens mentioned just above this post.

Cheers,
Shiraz
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: burre on August 08, 2009, 04:49:45 am
Just a question; Will it be possible to have the server PC MC minimized while in use by the remote? Often, this second PC is used for web-browsing while I am seated in the sofa for music listening, and with Rivermote, every time I press something on the Iphone MC becomes the active window on the server. This is annoying for the person web-browsing, when scrolling or typing.   (FTR, Yes, I understand I can't use the Iphone for this feature, am considering the ASus T91.)

Oh, and  THANK YOU! :)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: morrison on August 15, 2009, 04:03:31 pm
Tremote management Library Client - please, this is planned? Without this, for me it is useless - I do not have the playing zones on my server..

Maybe control all clients zones on Tremote machine?

I have vaio ux, samsung q1 - and cannot use this (
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Chad on August 19, 2009, 02:59:26 pm
http://www.iekiosk.com/mini-mustang.htm

Another hardware possibility.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on September 03, 2009, 11:15:06 am
Toshiba has a new 7 inch touchscreen planned.  Via engadget.com (http://www.engadget.com).

(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/Toshiba_Journe/217920914_orig0.jpg)

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: tjobbins on September 03, 2009, 06:50:49 pm
Thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I first requested this feature back in 2005 I think it was, but never remembered to come back and lobby for it.  I'm so glad it's been implemented, for me it's by far the biggest and best feature of MC 14.  

For years I've been using VNC on my laptop to connect to my HTPC and control MC, which is OK for music but very inconvenient for video due to slow screen refreshes.  Now I can control most things from my laptop as if it were playing the media itself, and it's awesome.  

There are a couple of feature requests I'd like to make:


To give you an example of why the above would be great:  I have a large number of home movie video clips which are unsorted, uncategorised and generically named.  What I want to be able to do is watch these full screen on the HTPC, while simultaneously manipulating them - deleting from disk, renaming, giving star ratings, etc.  I've tried to do this in the past either through VNC or just with a wireless keyboard/mouse, but I could not find keyboard shortcuts that would work while MC was in full screen mode. So I'd be forced to drop out of full screen mode, perform the action in the playlist, then go back to full screen to watch the next one, etc - which is a bit of a pain.  If TRemote were extended to allow full manipulation of the remote server library, it could greatly improve on this procedure, because it would allow me to manipulate the library from my client MC while leaving the HTPC permanently in full screen mode.

Anyway, thanks again for the awesome feature and I'm sure there is lots more to look forward to!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: tjobbins on September 04, 2009, 07:05:28 am
A bug (or missing feature):

Opening URLs doesn't work from the client.  On the client I go to File -> Open URL, I paste in a web radio station (like http://bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r6.asx).    The client shows Opening URL... and spins for a long time, then eventually on the server it says "The database entries for the selected files are missing or invalid."

(Opening the same URL from the server itself works fine.)

Same thing happens if I try to access any of the websites saved under Audio -> Connected Media.  Example, SomaFM -> Mission Control.  Clicking this link on the server itself plays fine, but clicking it on the client pauses for a while then gives the following message on the server: "Media Center encountered errors while trying to play the last several files. Please make sure the path in your media library point to the right location."
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: tjobbins on September 04, 2009, 08:30:30 pm
Following on from my earlier post - it seems that the client is not able to update the server library in any way.

From the client, I've tried setting ratings, changing a track name, etc, and the changes are never seen by the server.  And if I then close the client and re-open it, the changes it made will be reverted back.

I thought this should work, because of the feature supporting multiple concurrent read/write access to the DB etc?

Am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: tjobbins on September 04, 2009, 09:27:57 pm
From the client, I've tried setting ratings, changing a track name, etc, and the changes are never seen by the server.  And if I then close the client and re-open it, the changes it made will be reverted back.

I needed to run Library Sync after making changes on the Client.  Now it is updating OK for making edits from the client..

But it doesn't work with deletes - if I choose a file on the client and then Delete it - either a normal delete or a Delete and Remove from Disk - then do a Library Sync, the file will not disappear on the server and will reappear immediately on the client after the Library Sync completes.

I can workaround this in the short term by rating as 1 star stuff I want to delete, then doing a batch delete of all 1 stars at a later point on the server.  But this isn't ideal in case I wanted to rate stuff as 1 star without wanting to delete it.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: tjobbins on September 05, 2009, 07:41:46 pm
One more example of where the client can't update the server:

I wanted to change the definition of a View Scheme.  I edited it on the Client, then did Library Sync;  after Sync, the client reverted to before the change, and the server was not affected.

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: hit_ny on September 06, 2009, 11:19:32 am
Thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I first requested this feature back in 2005 I think it was, but never remembered to come back and lobby for it.

Much earlier, try 2003 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=17025.msg117427#msg117427)  :o

Quote
10. An alternative Media Server mode that allows the client to control the server - the client MC basically becomes a remote control, changing what the server is playing.

How bout that :)

If you did not know what a Tre-mote is, one glance at that description and its crystal.

Its interesting to go through your list and see what has been realised since then.
1. NO
2. YES
3. NO (see 3rd party app like autohotkey)
3a.NO
3b. YES
3c. NO (see 3rd party app like autohotkey)
4. YES (via expressions)
5. YES
6. i think so
7. YES
8. Not sure
9. YES
10. YES
11. NO
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: tjobbins on September 06, 2009, 12:33:40 pm
Much earlier, try 2003 (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=17025.msg117427#msg117427)  :o

Its interesting to go through your list and see what has been realised since then.

Haha! Thanks for digging that up.  Well good to see how loyal and patient I've been  ;D

And yeah they've done most of the things I've requested.  Items 3 and and 3c are still missing and I was just thinking about them again yesterday.  I think those should be quite easy to add (hint) :)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: hit_ny on September 06, 2009, 02:14:56 pm
Items 3 and and 3c are still missing and I was just thinking about them again yesterday.  I think those should be quite easy to add (hint) :)

See modified post above.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: boydn on September 06, 2009, 11:55:33 pm
I leave the volume on the MC PC set to 100 and control with the receiver. 
Are you guys leaving receiver volume on XX and controlling with windows/MC slider?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on September 09, 2009, 11:02:57 am
Engadget.com reports that Samsung just released a similar solution (http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/06/samsungs-led-tv-couple-packs-a-7-inch-tablet-remote-for-streami/).
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: tjobbins on September 12, 2009, 08:02:34 pm
One more example of an area the TRemote client can't control -  Drives and Devices.  Clicking on this item on the TRemote client shows the local Drives and Devices, not those of the server.  So it's not possible to trigger DVD playback using TRemote.

I guess all my examples point to the same thing  - the current TRemote implementation, working via the Library Server, presents quite a few limitations to remote control. Things that aren't part of the library, like a DVD drive or a randomly opened URL, cannot be triggered from the client. 

What I would love to see is a remote mode whereby using the MC client is like using MC on the server in all regards (with possible exception of Open File and similar given the complexities of that.)  So basically whenever something is done on the client, it would transmit that command to the server and have it perform the same operation.  There would be no concept of anything local to the client, it would just be an interface to the server.  It could even be a separate MC Client binary, with any features and interface items that relate only to local control removed.

I mentioned Open File as a complexity, and there are some others - for example, ideally the communication should be bi-directional, meaning that if the server MC wanted to pop up a dialogue, it would be triggered on the client as well.   DVD playback is again an example here - when I put a DVD into my HTPC, MC will pop up a dialogue asking if I should play it or take no action.  Ideally this dialogue would be triggered on the client so that the client can be used to make the decision.

So really what I'm describing is a facility which is just like controlling the server MC via remote desktop sharing like VNC or RDP, except implemented with a thick local client.

I think this would also answer the issues raised by others earlier in this thread - by decoupling client control from the library server, that would allow one to run a library server at the same time without interference.

Although the above may be complex or difficult, I do feel that it will be necessary in order to realise the vision of controlling MC from a tablet PC/netbook/etc.  In order for those to be effective, the client needs to be able to trigger a complete range of server functions, and any concept of 'local' would be irrelevant and distracting, because the device exists only to control the server.  If this can be achieved, then I think those devices will be a superb way of controlling a complex home theater without ever needing to access the server with a keyboard or mouse (or very rarely.)


(Final point - if the above were to be implemented, then this would also be an excellent chance for developers;  J River could release the API that is used by the client to control the server.  That would allow development of alternative, customised client interfaces by the community.  This opens up all sorts of possibilities.- for example if I could trigger TV recording with a remote API call, then I could develop a simple email interface allowing me to email home if I forgot to record a program :)  I could maybe do this today by triggering MCC.exe, but I'd need to find my own way of executing that remotely on my MC server;   a remote API that provides access to all MC features would be much more powerful.  )
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on September 17, 2009, 10:08:08 am
Another candidate, the ITG XPPhone.  Article at Pocketables (http://www.pocketables.net/2009/09/itg-now-accepting-xpphone-preorders-with-choice-of-att-orange-or-vodafone.html) (via engadget).

(http://www.pix01.com/gallery/8D12431D-7EA0-495D-9EA2-775091458CB9/ITG_phone/100303144_orig0.jpg)

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: hit_ny on September 17, 2009, 12:07:17 pm
All these solutions appear quite bulky in comparison to this (http://reviews.digitaltrends.com/review/6684/sonos-controller-200-cr200-review)

Check out the compelling demo (http://www.sonos.com/demo/demo.aspx) and observe the play between remote and backend.

All this functionality already exists in MC !!

What's missing is a small device with a close enough GUI that does not kill battery life like the one mentioned above  ?

can find no mention of the processor used nor the OS that runs on it
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: DWAnderson on September 17, 2009, 06:41:48 pm
Similarly, I'd like the ability to import files into the server, from the client.   This would be a little more complex, because it would mean that when I choose Import, I should see a File dialogue that is relative to the server, not the client.   If that's too complex, then an alternative would be to allow the use of pre-defined Auto Import folders from the client.  Meaning that I would first set up these folders on the Server, and then the Client would be able to trigger imports from those folders into the server library

An easier and more limited way to implement this would be to have this work for imports to network shares that were visble both to the client and the server. Imports elsewhere should pop up a warning dialog saying that they won't be reflected persistently in the library.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: MrHaugen on September 18, 2009, 03:47:30 am
If the above explanation is too long for you, I'll boil it down:

If you want to use the Library Server feature AND the Tremote feature of MC14, but you don't want to use Tremote to control the computer that is serving the library (or want to remote control multiple, different machines) you can't do it.  You can only use Tremote to control the Library Server machine, and not any of the clients.  You are forced to choose between these two features.

Exactly. This is my problem as well. I do not know why it has been done like this. More easy to implement it that way? I'm going to test out the server soon, as the video fix have been implemented. But when I get a small fancy client with touch screen I'll have a problem.

The BIG problem as I see it.
- If you install the server function of MC, you'd most likely want to have it on a server, stoved away.
- If you want to use the Tremote you want to control something you can see and hear. Not much use of controlling the server in the closet is it?

Possible solutions:
- Build the Tremote functions totally on the side of server functionality (might be cost and time intensive).
- Make two separate connection methods and servers. Client/server and Tremote server, so they can coexist. One server function and one Tremote server function. Most of the code from the regular server function could probably be used again? Just have to separate the two clients by the connection method. You could enable two servers on one machine or using it on different machines.


Would it be hard to do?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on September 19, 2009, 07:47:06 am
I'm not sure I follow this, but here's what I think you're saying:

A= your Tremote

B= your display across the room

C= your server

You want A to control what is playing on B
but
it is controlling C instead.

What if B is a client of C (B connects to Library Server on C)?

Can you not then run Library Server on B and connect to it with A?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on September 19, 2009, 09:36:07 am
I'm not sure I follow this, but here's what I think you're saying:

A= your Tremote

B= your display across the room

C= your server

You want A to control what is playing on B
but
it is controlling C instead.

What if B is a client of C (B connects to Library Server on C)?

Can you not then run Library Server on B and connect to it with A?

This is the scenario I tried to explain earlier in this thread. It doesn't work, MC on A reports an error when doing this. With my setup it does at least.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: MrHaugen on September 21, 2009, 05:06:41 am
It might work. The problem is, why would you have such a setup? It's not possible for everybody.

I have a combined living room and bed room. I do not want the library server on at all times, and when I turn it off, the rest of the users in my apartment would not have access to any media. Even though all the files is on a file server. Almost the same applies for a family who have a media server with all their files. Why use a Client for the server function? People also often wants to turn off or put their clients to sleep.

It can't be hard to understand that the most heavy users want a separate server hidden away, and have full control of the client with Tremote, connecting to the server. What possible benefits would it be to use the Tremote to such a server?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on September 25, 2009, 04:16:56 pm
xtacbyme, I split your post here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=54081.0).
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: tjobbins on September 26, 2009, 05:59:59 pm
An easier and more limited way to implement this would be to have this work for imports to network shares that were visble both to the client and the server. Imports elsewhere should pop up a warning dialog saying that they won't be reflected persistently in the library.

Works for me
Title: Tremote questions
Post by: StFeder on September 27, 2009, 05:26:18 am
I started using the tremote feature. There are some things I cannot figure out how and/or if they work...

If I change the remote PC to any "there" zone I'm able to control server playback (incl. volume) and add files to playing now.

But I'm not able to rearrange Playing Now. Doesn't work via "Sync current zone to" either. Changing repeat settings and reshuffle doesn't work.

Am I missing something? Or is this as it is expected?
Title: Re: Tremote questions
Post by: GrantDG on September 27, 2009, 06:04:59 pm
I second this question - this issue was raised way back on the initial 14 release.

Is there an intention to address it?
Title: Re: Tremote questions
Post by: JimH on September 27, 2009, 06:12:25 pm
Probably.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on September 28, 2009, 03:30:26 am
I think the idea of being able to control a client has been raised many, MANY time. The server is not necassarity the machine you want to control via the remote.

I still think that if a small web server was included in the MC14 package, then JRiver could build an HTTP/Flash interface to control ANY machine.


I do belive that someone has actually done something like this as an add on app - it would be good for JRiver to add this to the MC14 code.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Shiraz on October 03, 2009, 02:07:39 pm
I want to make an emphatic +1 vote for TJRobbins posts about making Tremote control more aspects of the server. I especially could use file deletion, but many of the other aspects he mentions are limitations I've specifically felt while using Tremote. Having originally used remote desktop to control the server, it does become apparent what Tremote cannot do. That said, I'm extremely grateful that Tremote exists at all. Currently I use remote desktop to do what Tremote can't, using Tremote for general playback and tagging.

Plus a question: can Library Sync be automated? Ideal would be that the libraries would sync up automatically, anytime there is a change at either the client or server side... or at least just have it run every x minutes.

And while I'm at it, a third easy question: can a Tremote MC client be launched by default with the Zone set to the server (ie. "There: Zone 1").
 
Cheers,
Shiraz
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on November 27, 2009, 08:22:32 am
Another device, the Viewsonic N01 (via engadget.com):

(http://pocketables.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c9ec69e2012875dfb06b970c-pi)

http://www.pocketables.net/2009/11/new-viewsonic-mid-spotted-running-windows-xp.html
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on December 12, 2009, 12:48:39 pm
how are your guy's speeds with your netbooks\umpc's?  do you have large libraries? are your units wireless n?  do think this is the way to go for a remote?  Also correct me if im wrong.. but if we will be ONLY using this as a remote, one doesnt really need to worry about speeds or processing power correct?
I mean it will be remoting from the htpc.. so basically, its just sending the video to the netbook umpc screen? I'm really scared about large libraries and thumbnail loading!?

I'm still undecided and have researched my brains out trying to figure out which will work the best. for speed, touch, functionality and above all size (smaller the better)
 have you guys seen this?  anyone using windows ce? wonder how performance would be? http://cgi.ebay.com/SMART-V1080P-Mobile-Internet-Device-MID-ALSO-WHOLESALE_W0QQitemZ120476161379QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item1c0cf05563 (http://cgi.ebay.com/SMART-V1080P-Mobile-Internet-Device-MID-ALSO-WHOLESALE_W0QQitemZ120476161379QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLaptops_Nov05?hash=item1c0cf05563)

more detailed info... http://www.pocketables.net/2009/10/live-shots-of-1080pcapable-smartq-v5-mid-appear.html (http://www.pocketables.net/2009/10/live-shots-of-1080pcapable-smartq-v5-mid-appear.html)

and remote desktop info... http://www.smartqmid.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=139&start=0 (http://www.smartqmid.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=139&start=0)

wonder if this device would suffice for us jriver users? at 399.00 i'd scoop it up if it would :)

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on December 12, 2009, 10:32:49 pm
That won't work with the Tremote feature in MC.  It has to be able to run regular Windows.  That thing is an ARM-based MID, not a x86 computer.

Generally, using Tremote works fairly well.  However, it IS loading the full library into a full-blown copy of MC.  You don't have to worry about file playback support capabilities, but it needs to be able to handle the database functions.

In practice, I've found it works pretty well on my Atom-based EeePC 1000H.  Occasionally I notice that responsiveness is slow (particularly using Image/Photo Views), but most of that has to do with transferring the photos across my wireless network, I'm sure.  I really need to upgrade that router to a Wireless-N router soon.   ::)

Now, if you do it via Remote Desktop, that's a completely different story.  But that's not what this thread is about.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on December 12, 2009, 11:46:33 pm
glynor may i take this convo into a pm with you? so that i purchase the right item for my ideal setup? i promise not to take to much of your time.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on December 15, 2009, 04:21:24 am
Will we ever be able to control a client with tremote? Client to another client that is.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: davethe on December 15, 2009, 08:11:15 am
first post on the forums, other than some questions I will have just wanted to say what a great piece of software MC is. I was using WMP but it kept losing my album art which in retrospect was a good thing as it led me to find MJ. I was using the free player but was looking for a way to control a server remotely using another computer and suprise suprise discovered that the full version of MC has this built in! My current setup is kind of odd, I have a laptop hooked up to my DAC and amp which is the server, but accesses my flac music library on my PC over my home network, but it is my PC I'm using all the time from which I control the laptop (the there) :D

I would like to know if the following can be achieved and if so how to achieve them please:

when starting MC clientside can there:Zone be set as default?

can I create a library view clientside and have the server incorporate it automatically?

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on December 15, 2009, 08:20:15 am
1.  Thanks!

2.  You can start up in a zone with the MC Core Commands.  Take a look at them on our [http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/DevZone]DevZone[/url] page on the wiki.  This might do what you want.

3.  No.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on December 15, 2009, 09:10:55 am
glynor may i take this convo into a pm with you? so that i purchase the right item for my ideal setup? i promise not to take to much of your time.

Sorry... I missed this.  Sure.  PM away.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: davethe on December 15, 2009, 09:16:36 am
thanks for the super prompt reply JimH! The Core Commands should do what I need maybe using a batch file, thanks for the info. I also found the Ctrl-T shortcut and the fact that a zones button can be added to the interface, nice to have options :) thanks again
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on December 16, 2009, 04:10:47 am
Will we ever be able to control a client with tremote? Client to another client that is.

Should I understand the silence around this question as 'It's not decided yet'?
It'd be great if it was made possible.  :)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on December 16, 2009, 06:42:51 am
Should I understand the silence around this question as 'It's not decided yet'?
It'd be great if it was made possible.  :)
Can you describe exactly what you want to do?  And why?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on December 16, 2009, 08:43:06 am
I have a server tucked away in a closet. It's on 24/7, but doesn't do any playing. In my living room I have a htpc and a laptop. These connect to the server whenever I want to play music,films or browse my pictures. This, of course, using MC's library server on the server. I also connect to the server from work for music. I like this setup because of noise, the physical size of the htpc and so fort. Tremote has no use in this scenario as it is now, because my server isn't connected to any speakers or monitors. What I would like to do is connect to my htpc from my laptop and using tremote to control it while the htpc is connected via library server to my 'closet' pc.

laptop  >     htpc    >   server
client    >    client   >  server

htpc >(tremote)>htpc>(library server)>server
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on December 16, 2009, 08:47:53 am
If Tremote connects to the HTPC, it should be able to play the library of the MC running on the HTPC.  Look under "Playing Now" on the Tremote.

MC on your HTPC could also just import the server's files (using Windows networking) without running Library Server on the server.

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on December 16, 2009, 09:13:23 am
JimH... I'm very sorry! I've not tried it the last builds(I was able to connect before but it threw an error when trying to play). Anyway.. It now works. Thanks! I'm a very happy camper now!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on December 16, 2009, 09:15:20 am
Good news!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on December 16, 2009, 10:57:14 am
I have a server tucked away in a closet. It's on 24/7, but doesn't do any playing. In my living room I have a htpc and a laptop. These connect to the server whenever I want to play music,films or browse my pictures. This, of course, using MC's library server on the server. I also connect to the server from work for music. I like this setup because of noise, the physical size of the htpc and so fort. Tremote has no use in this scenario as it is now, because my server isn't connected to any speakers or monitors. What I would like to do is connect to my htpc from my laptop and using tremote to control it while the htpc is connected via library server to my 'closet' pc.

laptop  >     htpc    >   server
client    >    client   >  server

htpc >(tremote)>htpc>(library server)>server

This is an issue that I've had with Tremote and the Library Server as well.  I have a very similar system to yours.  My HTPC doesn't have any local media.  It is all served by a server downstairs in the basement.  Unless you run the Library Server on the machine that you want to control with your netbook/laptop/touchpad/etc, you have to choose between using the Library Server function and the Tremote function.

That said, accessing the Library (database files) over the network works fine.  If you put the library database files on the shared media drive on the server (via the File > Library > Library Manager tool), then any machines on the network can open it and use the "combined" MC library, and they'll all view the files exactly the same way.  The only issue is that only ONE machine can have read/write access to the library at one time, but this isn't a serious issue for me.  I'm generally not tagging files from multiple locations simultaneously! 
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: llafriel on December 16, 2009, 02:34:43 pm
This is an issue that I've had with Tremote and the Library Server as well.  I have a very similar system to yours.  My HTPC doesn't have any local media.  It is all served by a server downstairs in the basement.  Unless you run the Library Server on the machine that you want to control with your netbook/laptop/touchpad/etc, you have to choose between using the Library Server function and the Tremote function.

But it's working now. Client to client is working. It didn't work with the first few builds of tremote, but it does now. Very nice!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HiFiTubes on December 16, 2009, 02:53:50 pm
I'd also like to be able to change display view on the server, or see Playing Now cover art/tracklist in Theater View.

I want to make an emphatic +1 vote for TJRobbins posts about making Tremote control more aspects of the server. I especially could use file deletion, but many of the other aspects he mentions are limitations I've specifically felt while using Tremote. Having originally used remote desktop to control the server, it does become apparent what Tremote cannot do. That said, I'm extremely grateful that Tremote exists at all. Currently I use remote desktop to do what Tremote can't, using Tremote for general playback and tagging.

Plus a question: can Library Sync be automated? Ideal would be that the libraries would sync up automatically, anytime there is a change at either the client or server side... or at least just have it run every x minutes.

And while I'm at it, a third easy question: can a Tremote MC client be launched by default with the Zone set to the server (ie. "There: Zone 1").
 
Cheers,
Shiraz

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: glynor on December 16, 2009, 03:24:50 pm
But it's working now. Client to client is working. It didn't work with the first few builds of tremote, but it does now. Very nice!

I'll have to try this out.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on December 18, 2009, 06:12:19 pm
The future Archos 9 looks promising for the Tremote! :
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3007/archos9intro.th.jpg) (http://img339.imageshack.us/i/archos9intro.jpg/)

http://www.archos.com/products/nb/archos_9/index.html?country=us&lang=en
This is now available for $549.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on December 22, 2009, 12:05:49 am
so i bought the eeepc and this my first time using theaterview with tremote.. and loving it!!!!

big question though, on netbook when connected to server, and on zone 1... meaning that im connected to library server and want to watch movies on the netbook not use it as a remote\there:zone1

all avi's mpgs play but none of my dvdbackups with extension. ifo play?  how do i get those files to play? those are the majority of my files and i'd love to be able to bring my laptop anywhere in the house network and be able to watch those files also.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on December 22, 2009, 06:52:30 am
so i bought the eeepc and this my first time using theaterview with tremote.. and loving it!!!!

big question though, on netbook when connected to server, and on zone 1... meaning that im connected to library server and want to watch movies on the netbook not use it as a remote\there:zone1

all avi's mpgs play but none of my dvdbackups with extension. ifo play?  how do i get those files to play? those are the majority of my files and i'd love to be able to bring my laptop anywhere in the house network and be able to watch those files also.

Could you start a new thread for the question about video and Library Server?

Which eee?  The T1?  Touch screen?  How does it work?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on December 22, 2009, 11:17:19 am
will do later this afternoon.

and i bought the eeepc 1000ah. not  a tablet just mini netbook. i will be returning it and buying the T91mt after testing the whole theaterview tremote thing. alot of potential.  the one i bought came with only 1GB memory, and i'll be getting the 2gb replacemment card tomm. so i want to test speeds with the ram upgrade. right now im happy quite happy with it overall. EXCEPT boot up times\ theaterview load times.. and im not sure if its a memory issue? or if my network isnt fast enough or if my library is just to big? what are the sizes of some of your guy's libraries when using library server? mine is 17.6MB. so when netbooks boots up ive tweakd services shut off all other proggies, turned screen black, autohid toolbar, and when she starts she connects to library, and takes about a minute to connect\load the library, then she brings me to theaterview... which isnt bad.  but i think the netbook is still working once its loaded cause the second i see the theaterview screen (audio, images, video, tv, dvd, connected, info exit..) and i move the keyboard directional keys to the right from audio to images. (this is with moving the highlighte and not even selecting images just moving to images) just hitting the arrow key one time. she locks up and takes a good 2 - 4 minutes before it allows you to move again. once that initial glitch is done though and if you dont reboot.. she runs flawlessly.  so once i get the new upgraded ram tomm. i will do more tests before returning this and going after the touchscreen T91mt...
Really hoping this startup thing i can workout...  cause if you think about it... 1. A remote never crashes, 2. we are using a windows based netbook-tablet we will have crashes. 3. when they crash the sooner the remote is available the better. and if one has to reconnect to library server on every crash and wait a total of 5-6 minutes before being abl to use remote. that is way to LONGGGG and could be the downfall from others thinking\saying...WOW WHAT A SWEET REMOTE to D$%m Thats cool, but the startup lag really sucks man.   oh and i ran these tests on wireless g network.. then  ran the tests on ethernet 100 connection. was considerably faster but its still talking a few minutes for loading of the library.

if any of you have any quicker jriver theaterview bootup tricks i'd love to test them.

another thing after playing with it last night. GF and BRO who is computer illiterate LOVES it but i could see the touchscreen is a MUST for novice users. when they want to go back they could use touchscreen to go back. instead of backspace, or havign to mouse.. it will really make it easier for them.
for me... it will take some getting use to controlling the bigscreen without see'n what i'm doing on the bigscreeen, and realize that the big screen is not the remote, the tablet is the remote!  ive just been use to using remote desktop connection and seeing what im doing on the big screen as well as on my laptops.

any tips,suggestions, others testing info would be greatly appreciated!!!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on December 22, 2009, 08:43:39 pm
ok new issue i can't figure out.. on the netbook im using. im connected to there zone 1 and a movie has come up where i can choose play movie or scene selction. the arrow keys dont work nor tab... and if i hit play nothing happens either how do you move around on dvd menu's in tremote?

is it possible to see mouse in tremote? or would that not be needed once your using a touchscreen?
ty
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on December 31, 2009, 11:05:08 am
bump
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on January 04, 2010, 08:40:46 am
More concept prototypes of touch screen devices:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10423606-64.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea.0
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 05, 2010, 10:41:30 am
Hi,

I've set up two pc's to test out MC and all is working and very stable, I've got Library Server working, but I have no idea how Tremote is enabled or works - do i need to download something ? has it been removed ? is there a guide / tutorial I can get ?

Any help for a complete noob welcome  ?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on January 05, 2010, 10:52:34 am
The remote machine will appear as a zone in the local copy of MC.  It should show up under Playing Now.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 05, 2010, 11:10:24 am
All I have under Playing Now is Find CD and Artist Info (same on both pcs)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 05, 2010, 11:13:09 am
HAVE YOU CONNECTED TO MAIN PC\ SERVER? GOTO FILE ON TOP CHOSE LIBRARY, CHOOSE SEARCH FOR LIBRARY SERVERS. IT WILL SEARCH FOR THEM. ONCE IT FINDS THE SERVER, IT WILL DOWNLOAD THE LIBRARY.. THEN YOU WILL SEE ON TOP TOOLBAR OF JRiver. THE SERVER YOU ARE CONNECTED TO. THEN CLICK ON PLAYING NOW. YOU SHOULD SEE ZONE :1 AND THERE: ZONE 1 ( I THINK IT'S CALLED) I CANT REMEBER I SOLD MY NETBOOK. SO NO WAY TO TEST FOR YOU NOW)

SORRY BOUT CAPS.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 05, 2010, 02:57:12 pm
Thanks xtacbyme ! that was it :)...now to have a play & see what it can do.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 05, 2010, 02:58:59 pm
out of curiosity what you connecting to server with? a netbook? or laptop? whats the machine your connecting with specs? proccessor? ram? wireless? ethernet? 100 base or 1000?

TY
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 06, 2010, 09:46:16 am
Thanks for the help -  at the moment I'm using a trial version of MC on Vista Ultimat PC Athlon FX-55 2.6 Ghz, 2Gb ram and  Windows XP Pro on a  Mac Mini Bootcamp 1.8 Core 2 Duo 2 Gb ram. From testing Tremote would make a great feature for a touch screen tablet, one noticable downside is the time taken to download the database from the server - would it not be possible to keep a copy of the database on the client & update it on connection ?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 06, 2010, 09:52:39 am
you downloading database with wifi? or ethernet? 100 ethernet? or 1000?

TY
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 06, 2010, 10:14:53 am
ethernet 100 at the moment, but for the real thing  - a touchscreen tablet it would need to be wifi
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: fhl on January 06, 2010, 12:57:13 pm
If I buy the MC Remote and connects it to the remote pc, is it then possible to control the volume on the HTPC with the remote?

Frode
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 06, 2010, 01:36:17 pm
yeah i tried a netbook with wifi wirelessn, and ethernet connection.. not sure if the netbook couldnt handle the large library or what but i returned both netbooks, am going with a logitech dinovo mini for now. and then eventually just going to wire in a touchscreen monitor into living room\theater area. so the library shows up instantly. only thing i can think of that will work.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 06, 2010, 02:18:03 pm
one of these may do the trick for some?  if you have  a way to hardwire it in\ hide cables - I'm A little leary about quality though

http://cgi.ebay.com/8-8-Inch-Stand-Monitor-VGA-Touch-Screen-LCD-For-Car-PC_W0QQitemZ160388230662QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2557e22e06 (http://cgi.ebay.com/8-8-Inch-Stand-Monitor-VGA-Touch-Screen-LCD-For-Car-PC_W0QQitemZ160388230662QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2557e22e06)

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 06, 2010, 02:39:34 pm
And hardwire the monitor from your HTPC ? Know what you mean about quality !
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 06, 2010, 02:49:19 pm
yeah.. i use to work for corporate presentations here in mn and we use to do high end. 600,000 - millions dollar conference rooms, high end theater stuff. and 90% of the remotes were tablet type, touch, amx\panga(EXPENSIVE - Back Then).. but if i knew quality was good on one of these. just hardwire it into table, could even have it  Automated to raise remote - tablet out of table.  Speed would be instant (cause it's connected directly to HTPC) only downfall is it would not be able to be moved from couch to couch, outside etc...  unless maybe i look for a touch screen monitor that has vga inputs on it and also wifi ability... so that when outside\ or in other rooms one could just unsnap\remove the touchscreen, remove vga cable and it could be used as a wifi for remote desktop yes it would be slower when disconnected but it would still give you the ability to see the jriver interface anywhere you are in the wifi area.

I Dunno. I finally bought my htpc, waiting for it to arrive. and will see how i like the logitech mini. but im sure i will be upgrading that soon. i just love the touch idea.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 06, 2010, 02:57:43 pm
You need something with a dock (dont know if it exists) hardwired on dock / wifi when held
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 06, 2010, 03:26:29 pm
yuppers.. and not ALOT of money!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: fhl on January 08, 2010, 05:01:17 am
Anyone knows?

Frode

If I buy the MC Remote and connects it to the remote pc, is it then possible to control the volume on the HTPC with the remote?

Frode
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on January 08, 2010, 07:36:49 am
If I buy the MC Remote and connects it to the remote pc, is it then possible to control the volume on the HTPC with the remote?
Yes.  It's possible to do.  You use one of the e-mitters included in the Media Center Remote Kit:
http://wiki.jrmediacenter.com/index.php/Media_Center_Remote
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: YannisA on January 09, 2010, 03:54:30 pm
If Tremote connects to the HTPC, it should be able to play the library of the MC running on the HTPC.  Look under "Playing Now" on the Tremote.

MC on your HTPC could also just import the server's files (using Windows networking) without running Library Server on the server.

This means that
1. I'll have to run library server, on the HTPC and connect to it's library from the netbook. Correct?
2. The library wont be 24/7 available, as not served from the (24/7 on) server PC.

So, "llafriel", how did you settle with this? I copy your setup below, which identical to mine.

"I have a server tucked away in a closet. It's on 24/7, but doesn't do any playing. In my living room I have a htpc and a laptop. These connect to the server whenever I want to play music,films or browse my pictures. This, of course, using MC's library server on the server. I also connect to the server from work for music. I like this setup because of noise, the physical size of the htpc and so fort. Tremote has no use in this scenario as it is now, because my server isn't connected to any speakers or monitors. What I would like to do is connect to my htpc from my laptop and using tremote to control it while the htpc is connected via library server to my 'closet' pc."
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 13, 2010, 03:03:29 pm
 I intend to get a tablet pc in the near future to act as a remote for MC, but could someone give me some idea as to what can and cant be done with touch screens & MC, the main thoughts I've got are:

 Asuming both machines are running Windows 7,

 1/Does the Tablet PC (remote) have to run the Obsidian Touchscreen skin ? and does the HTPC also have to run the Obsidian Touchscreen skin ?

 2/Can you run different skins on both machines ?

 3/Can you control the Tablet PC by touch using Standard View ?

Thanks  :)

Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 13, 2010, 03:10:45 pm
i had bought the asus t91mt touch screen. and its independent. meaning anything you can do with mouse you can do with your finger. any skin, and yes it works in theaterview. and yes you can have diffrent skins... basically from what i played around with when i had it it was just like having  amouse hooked up to it. hope that helps.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 13, 2010, 04:24:39 pm
Thanks thats useful info, thought there might be some limits to what would work together.

 I think one limitation maybe the slow proccessor used in these touch screen tablet PCs when it comes to loading the database from the main machine, but I guess once loaded, if you leave it switched on ...?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 13, 2010, 04:29:06 pm
not sure. all i know is i tested it, tweaked it to the max. and was slow as heck.. returned it and now in search of perfect remote.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: Merv on January 13, 2010, 04:32:36 pm
xptunes works quite well on iphone / ipod if you dont mind the small screen
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: HTPC4ME on January 13, 2010, 04:41:49 pm
yeah thats what ive read. i mind the iphone ;) gf has one but we've yet to install xptunes on it.. but ive been itching too. when my "dream smartphone" comes out thats my plan.
thanks for tip though.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on January 14, 2010, 09:07:07 pm
Another possibility:
http://www.pmptoday.com/2010/01/14/digitalrise-x9-multitouch-tablet-isnt-cheap/

10" multitouch tablet slate with Win7 for $780
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: galahad1974 on January 16, 2010, 08:46:16 am
i currently use 2 devices as remotes. i use remote server to connect to an archos7 which would work perfectly if i could do more tag data retrieval over your web service.And i use tremote to serve to  a dell xt2. this is really the perfect way to control mc. while i understand the cost of a new unit would be ridiculous to put out for a remote, no matter how nice, the xt (previous generation) regularly sells on ebay for 400$. i set up a clients house yesterday with an xt and its a dream with tremote. i really love this feature.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on January 16, 2010, 08:54:57 am
galahad,
Thanks.  And thanks for the tip.

Jim
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: morrison on February 01, 2010, 04:34:04 am
When can we expect tremote to manage client by client? It is terrible to ask, but perhaps the latest advances in the management dlna device further help and links between MC-clients?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: morrison on February 26, 2010, 04:35:21 am
Heavy question ?
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on February 26, 2010, 06:02:53 am
i currently use 2 devices as remotes. i use remote server to connect to an archos7 which would work perfectly if i could do more tag data retrieval over your web service.And i use tremote to serve to  a dell xt2. this is really the perfect way to control mc. while i understand the cost of a new unit would be ridiculous to put out for a remote, no matter how nice, the xt (previous generation) regularly sells on ebay for 400$. i set up a clients house yesterday with an xt and its a dream with tremote. i really love this feature.

How does the Archos work as a remote? I too think that a tablet much over £200 is pretty pointless. The fact the tremote is tied to a windows platform is VERY limiting. If there is something that could be utilised other than a Windows tablet then that would be great.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on March 23, 2010, 11:12:17 am
We just released a beta of MC15.  It has a DLNA feature called WebRemote.  It lets you use a browser on any device to control MC15.  Here are a couple of links:

MC15.0.8 download:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56718.0

New features so far, including WebRemote:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56688.0

MC15 currently works with an MC14 license.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: morrison on March 23, 2010, 11:32:22 am
Jim, any comments about my question please..
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on March 23, 2010, 11:41:04 am
I don't understand what you mean by "client by client".
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: morrison on March 23, 2010, 01:52:05 pm
Ok, I'll try to explain the details (once again apologize for my bad English)

I talking about control MC client from another MC. Now we can use Tremote only for control server zone. All my home playback zone its MC clients.Tremote for server not needed in this case. It seems to me that this scheme is more functional than the DLNA device (also as MC as a mobile player (laptop, car, upmc) is more convenient and better quality than the Ipod - but for now we can get statistics only from Ipod).  Now we can control DLNA and from DLNA. But we can't use Tremote for control MC client. I'd like to know whether the planned improvements in this direction.
Ideally, I see the possibility of unlimited control zones clients and server in one server.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: swinster on March 23, 2010, 01:52:54 pm
We just released a beta of MC15.  It has a DLNA feature called WebRemote.  It lets you use a browser on any device to control MC15.  Here are a couple of links:

MC15.0.8 download:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56718.0

New features so far, including WebRemote:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=56688.0

MC15 currently works with an MC14 license.


Wow - you guys really DO listen. I haven't looked in other threads yet but I'm guessing ver 15 can be installed side by side with 14 - just in case!
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: morrison on March 24, 2010, 08:50:14 am
 ::)
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on March 24, 2010, 08:58:21 am
Wow - you guys really DO listen. I haven't looked in other threads yet but I'm guessing ver 15 can be installed side by side with 14 - just in case!
It can.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on March 24, 2010, 09:00:30 am
I am talking about controlling MC clients from another MC.  Now we can use Tremote only for controlling the server zone. All my home playback zones are MC clients.Tremote for server not needed in this case. It seems to me that this scheme is more functional than the DLNA device (also as MC as a mobile player (laptop, car, upmc) is more convenient and better quality than the Ipod - but for now we can get statistics only from Ipod).  Now we can control DLNA and from DLNA. But we can't use Tremote for control MC client. I'd like to know whether the planned improvements in this direction.
Ideally, I see the possibility of unlimited control zones clients and server in one server.

Thanks.  I understand better (but not perfectly).  The answer is that I don't know what we'll do next with Tremote.  DLNA is a standard that we will need to follow.  DLNA allows one copy of MC to control another or play to it.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: morrison on March 24, 2010, 10:16:52 am
Thank you for your response Jim! Your misunderstanding prompted me to check it again - and now it works! It's definitely not worked before, and I do not understand how he could miss this news.

What I doing (again, for history):

To my MC server "MC-server" (10.0.0.1:9999) is connected a MC client ("MC-client"), which is configured zone "My main client zone". To control this area with Tremote, this MC-client is also configured as server (10.0.0.2:8888), to which I connect a third copy of the MC, installed on my umpc (MC-control). Earlier on this stage I received a message about can't connect to the server on MC-client. Now the "MC-control" is connected to "MC-client" and allows to control a zone "My main client zone"  from umpc.
Profit )

I waited for this functionality since the announcement function Tremote. Thank you for implementation.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: ReTango on October 12, 2010, 11:21:08 pm
Guys,
I fell ashamed to ask... but how do I setup the Tremote feature? I have been the last 1/2 hour searching for a simple setup explanation in the forum, and help wiki.. and all the links point to this thread. After rereading the 5 thread pages twice, I failed to find where the explanation is.. Could you please help me?
Thanks a lot,
ReTango
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: dtc on October 19, 2010, 04:40:42 pm
ReTango - no need to be ashamed. This is a great feature, but actually using it is not well documented. Took me a long time to figure out how to get it to work. Both systems have to be running the same version of Media Center.

On the system hooked to the stereo - On the Organization Tree (options on the left side of the screen) go down to Services and Plug-ins and select Library Server. In the windows that comes up click Start Server. This starts the library server on this system.

On the  system being used as a remote - From the File Menu select Library and and Search for Library Servers. It should go out to the network and find the library server on the system hooked to the stereo. You should see the library from the other system. On the Organization Tree, look at Playing Now and select Zone1: There. This tells the system to play the files on the system hooked to the stereo (There). Now just select the tracks to play and it should work. The sound comes from the system hooked to the stereo and you hear nothing from the system you are working on.

Hope it works for you.
There may have been other things that I had to turn on to make this work, but I cannot remember. It just works now. I presume it works on MC 15 also, but I have not tried it. I am running 14.0.153
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: ReTango on October 19, 2010, 08:22:14 pm
Thanks a lot dtc! Now it works, perfectly! Regards,
ReTango 
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: dtc on October 19, 2010, 08:36:29 pm
Glad it works. It really is pretty slick. I really like having the full interface rather than a partial one on a hand held device.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: slingshot on March 21, 2011, 09:15:26 pm
I just downloaded the MC 16 beta version tonight but I can't see how to install Tremote per the above instructions. "Library Services" is not listed under Services & Plugins. Did they move it in MC 16?  :(

Similar to the person who posted questions about this, this response is the only one I could find on the web after a long search.
Title: Re: Netbook as a Remote aka Tremote
Post by: JimH on March 22, 2011, 07:37:25 am
Configure under Options/Media Network. 

Libraries then show up under Playing Now.  Right click on one for options.

Please use the Media Network board if you need more help.