INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 22 for Windows => Topic started by: JimH on April 18, 2017, 07:23:51 pm
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We've started selling JRiver Media Center 23 licenses now. Any new purchase or upgrade is an MC23 license.
I thought it would be a good time to ask what you think and also summarize where I think we're going.
This isn't a feature request thread. It's more like what you'd do if you went to a shrink and paid enough that they would listen. You've paid. We're listening.
We were able to accomplish some of our goals for MC22, but not all of them. It gets harder each year as our domain grows. It's like a spider spinning a web. The first inch from the center is the easy one. After 10 or 12 inches, it's a long way around.
JRiver is often measured by a standard which may not be the one we use. For example, our community is divided into (at least):
Home Theater
Audiophiles
TV Enthusiasts
Music Collectors
Photo management people
And some folks who do all of the above.
And then button pushers, phone freaks, and so on. It's a lot of pieces.
We look at it from a slightly different point of view -- How can we organize and play all kinds of media in a cohesive way, so the logic of one applies to another?
And how can we do it seamlessly across networks? How can we neatly unify an increasingly diverse playing field of operating systems and services.
It ain't easy. We can only do our best, and hope you don't notice that we're not perfect.
Thanks,
Jim
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Here's a snapshot of how I think we've pushed forward with version 22.
JRiver Media Center
We've added some important new features to JRiver. We've also fixed many of the problems that have been reported. MC is a very mature high quality product now and, for the most part, crushes the competition. If the world changes, we'll still be here, building a better and better solution.
Networking
The ability to handle media across a LAN or the Internet is a big task, and one JRiver excels at. Record TV in one location, play it in others. Stream media from home to phone. Remote control with a phone or tablet or hardware remote. We've made significant progress in every aspect of this.
Cross Platform
When we ported to Mac, we re-wrote the classes we use. That was a huge job. In version 22, we were successful in porting Theater View to Mac and Linux.
JRiver Id
About five years ago, we began searching for a network hardware platform that we could depend on. We tried to find a manufacturing partner, but the results were mixed. About three years ago, we began working with the Intel NUC machines. The NUC is a series of low power devices that Intel makes available at a good price to companies who want to use them to build products. That worked very well. We now have a hardware platform that is reliable, a set of software (Linux, JRiver, and the Id software/firmware) that is stable and updateable. We've sold a lot of them now. For the most part, the Id just works.
Last year, we were able to port this software to the Raspberry Pi 3 Model B. That put the Id (rhymes with kid) price point under $100. Sales of the "IdPi" have been very good.
IoT
The Internet of Things is real. It's coming. The progress is glacial, but so was UNIX (the predecessor of Linux and OSX) -- it took more than a decade for UNIX to be essential.
With Engen, we've built a great foundation, a system for controlling all kinds of switches. It has a great web app as a remote, and an API for others to access. It does lighting very well now. It can monitor and control other devices. The list will grow.
Servers and Services
There is a long list of "background" elements that support the JRiver experience and many saw improvements with MC22.
Forum
Licensing
Metadata
Database access (cover art, playlists, ...)
Download servers (old versions, current versions, components, ...)
Accounting
Reporting
Email followup
Web servers
If any one of these goes offline for even a few minutes, it can be catastrophic to JRiver and its customers. Paypal, for example, recently made a change that prevented purchases from working. We've had a similar experience with credit cards in the past.
Bob and JohnT deserve a lot of credit for keeping this system working and safe. It's a huge and complicated job, with lots of moving parts and its uptime is around 99.9%
Forum and Wiki
It may be confusing at first, but there is a very broad and deep base of knowledge here. It is exceedingly friendly for those who want to learn. It is constantly improving and evolving. For this, we thank you.
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You omitted one important product that many of your customers use and most want to see updated and improved. JRemote.
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Jim, you list the main MC community as Home Theater, Audiophiles, TV Enthusiasts, Music Collectors, seems spot-on. I adopted MJ/MC around 2001 for exactly that.
BUT, MC promises to do more. On the splash screen, and in the default views tree, MC announces that it handles Audio, Video and IMAGES.
But as various MC user discussions show, IMAGES seems to be the least-evolved, and that's a shame. MC is so close... And the opportunity is real. So many other photo-oriented sites/apps have become phone-obsessed, simplistic apps which do not help anyone who is serious about polishing, organizing and managing their photos (and scans and PDFs and other images).
For example, Google pushes its Photos app, but it's like a parlor trick, trying to guess the location and people of a photo, but good luck being the photo owner who wants to actual specify this info accurately and efficiently. But it hardly matters, with no good ways to organize and view photos by the meta data that matters. And good luck simply sharing your photo library with family and friends dynamically, as a MC view can do; instead you must build and update albums, completely clumsy and time-consuming. Apple's approach is also flawed in many ways.
Is doing a bit more work on MC's IMAGES mode worthwhile? Start with existing customers: I bet many MC users already have, and continue to create, photos that beg for decent management. Consider the frequency and quantity of how people get new audio or video files to manage, vs. the landslide of photos that are created via the so-called phone in everyone's pocket. 10X more, 100X more, 1000X more? People needing to manage Images/photos seems like a potential market that is orders of magnitude larger than managing audio, which seems larger than managing video.
I don't know how much money is in IMAGES, given the free stuff. But there have always been free audio and video tools too, and yet MC climbed above based on capabilities. Stepping up MC's game with IMAGES could justify a price bump. After more than a dozen years of buying MC each year, I keep hoping. Thanks for listening.
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JRiver is often measured by a standard which may not be the one we use. For example, our community is divided into (at least):
Home Theater
Audiophiles
TV Enthusiasts
Music Collectors
Some of us are not divided into anything; I consider myself all of those.
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Some of us are not divided into anything; I consider myself all of those.
That's a good point and I should have added that. Thanks.
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You omitted one important product that many of your customers use and most want to see updated and improved. JRemote.
I didn't say JRemote, but I do think that phone and tablet control are extremely important.
I also think that voice control apps, like House Band, are important.
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I didn't say JRemote, but I do think that phone and tablet control are extremely important.
They are extremely important. Panel is too limited to be a replacement for JRemote, and the only work on JRemote in the last couple of years has been to make it work with iOS 10. The Android version is feature limited and full of bugs. With just a little attention it could be great.
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I would still like;
1. To be able to do all maintenance from a MC Client, rather than having to do it on the MC Server. This would include all Cover Art collection and management, and moving/renaming/copying files, on the server, from the Client, and everything else. Then I could move the MC Server from the TV room to a remote location and still do maintenance from the couch, as I see an issue while using MC, while still having a much smaller PC in the TV room. I could also do major maintenance activities from my home office Workstation, even while the HTPC is in use, rather than sitting at a remote server, or in front of the TV that others want to use.
2. I would like to see TV recording split off from the main application and run as a robust Windows Service in the background, so that it is possible to restart the MC UI without impacting ongoing TV recordings. Because, you know, sometimes I still have to restart the UI when it locks up or goes into "Go Slow" mode (not often, in fact rarely), and sometimes I have to sacrifice a recording to be able to do that. Of course, if I had a remote MC Server and a small PC Client in the TV room, as per 1. above, that would be less of an issue.
But really, as I lie here on the shrink's couch, I would just like to see the vision of "Any media, anywhere" delivered as a no brainer for any type or source of media, on any device, and almost any user level. (BD menus anyone? Streaming?)
Generally, a little more polish and completeness in all areas. You know, finish off some of the great functionality that exists. Manual or Auto synchronisation of video streams played via the WDM Driver? Built in functionality that allows the cataloguing of all optical discs (CD, DVD, Blu-ray) in MC without a user having to build a solution themselves. Stuff like that.
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PS: JRiver MC provides the capability to do lots of stuff, but often doesn't provide the eco-system / full solution to user requirements, which would enable more people to use MC out of the box. Therefore, only the more technically capable and motivated people (Geeks) make full use of it.
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I think I first purchased MC at v13, and the progress since then renders it almost unrecognisable from that. I think you guys do a great job pleasing everyone.
The work on TV in v22 has been fantastic! Would still love to see TV on Linux boxes, ability to play JTV on Linux boxes, and (as a hail mary) IceTV API integration but other than that I think it's just about there. Like you say those last things are probably the hardest. I'm seriously HANGING for the day I can rid myself of Windows.
I think the only other thing I'd LOVE to see you guys do is figure out zone syncing - even if it cost an extra $5 or $10 to justify your investment. Still cheap at twice the price when compared to Sonos.
Panel & Id are fantastic works in progress and one day I hope to make use of them :-)
Keep up the great work :-)
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Some of us are not divided into anything; I consider myself all of those.
Hear, hear!
[...] IMAGES seems to be the least-evolved, and that's a shame. MC is so close... And the opportunity is real. So many other photo-oriented sites/apps have become phone-obsessed, simplistic apps which do not help anyone who is serious about polishing, organizing and managing their photos (and scans and PDFs and other images).
[...]
I don't know how much money is in IMAGES, given the free stuff. But there have always been free audio and video tools too, and yet MC climbed above based on capabilities. Stepping up MC's game with IMAGES could justify a price bump. After more than a dozen years of buying MC each year, I keep hoping. Thanks for listening.
Couldn't agree more :)
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Hi,
As using MC mainly for video/audio playback (no images, no TV), I'm in general satisfied with the product. Even JRemote is fine for me, I use it a lot for listening. Server/clients may be interesting as I run a dedicated 24/7- Winserver, but it's too complicated for me, that's ok ;)
But, as mentioned often (!) in the forum, it hasn't the smoothness and ease on handling on a big screen as e.g. Kaleidoscope or even Kodi.
I try on a regular base the theater view, but the handling is to odd for explaining to my family and for myself...
I saw some really cool theater view setups in the forum, but they were all selfmade and compromises a lot of work.
Therefore, I didn't upgrade from 21 to 22 because of the lack of new features that help me.
Perhaps, 23 could put a little more focus on this, as 22 was focused on TV.
But, whatever will happen, I really love this piece of software!
Greeting from germany,
Thorsten
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But, whatever will happen, I really love this piece of software!
Greeting from germany,
Thorsten
+1
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PS: JRiver MC provides the capability to do lots of stuff, but often doesn't provide the eco-system / full solution to user requirements,
I'm not sure what you mean. Could you start a thread on this?
which would enable more people to use MC out of the box. Therefore, only the more technically capable and motivated people (Geeks) make full use of it.
I'm painfully aware of how difficult it can be to win the hearts of the non-geeks, but I think we do have a lot more "normal" users than you might think. The picture is distorted by the forum, where the more technical and more experienced people are the ones who tend to post more frequently. If you look at the forum statistics, though, there are a lot of people who are just reading and not writing.
Then there are users like Marko and mwillems (and many others) who aren't technical by vocation but have managed to educate themselves and lead others. Are they geeks? I don't know, but they deserve our recognition and gratitude for their kind hearted sharing of their hard-won knowledge.
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Is doing a bit more work on MC's IMAGES mode worthwhile? Start with existing customers: I bet many MC users already have, and continue to create, photos that beg for decent management.
Why don't you start a thread on this, with a few simple requests.
I use the photo managment a lot and, for the most part, it does a great job.
In version 22, we did some work for high resolution displays and for touchscreens. Also for playback of slideshows.
Maybe you could change your username to imagehawk? ;)
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I'm not sure what you mean. Could you start a thread on this?
I'll see what I can do to elaborate. Give me a couple of days.
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Hmm, well...
I have used (and use) MC for three generations, starting with MC 20. For me, I haven't really felt a difference going from 20 -> 21 -> 22, in performance or features. But that experience will of course vary a lot with the use case of the customer.
What I feel is lacking (as in, really really lacking) is documentation, an actual updated user manual. The wiki is not in a very good shape, and considering the extreme amount of possibilities in MC, a lot of stuff is largely un-documented.
There is so much I would like to do with MC, but finding information on how to do it is (at least for me) virtually impossible. This forum has a lot of knowledge, but it is far from being a user manual.
Apart from that, I would like to see bug tracking and bug fixing. I know you are fixing bugs, but as a user I would like to know when a bug I report has been fixed, so that I can use the system as intended.
Feature wise, well...
The build-in browser is a mystery to me, I always struggle with how to use it. Using firefox or chrome is a breeze, but the browser build in to MC is not very user friendly. I would like to always use the MC browser on my HTPC, and never have to open a normal browser.
Also I would like to see a multichannel WDM driver, if possible.
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Also I would like to see a multichannel WDM driver, if possible.
For whatever it's worth, I always configure the WDM driver in Media Center to be 5.1. That way the surround speakers work really well when playing a movie from Amazon for example.
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JRiver is often measured by a standard which may not be the one we use
sounds a bit like life. i appreciate the efforts of the team. my only comments are please finish the "experimental tag window" and give it the elevated status it well deserves.
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Personally, I've been pleased with the development between MC19 > MC20 > MC21 > MC22 and I'm excited to see what MC23 will bring to Windows, Mac and Linux.
Seeing how MC22's development has been focused on Television improvements (on Windows, as TV support on Mac/Linux may not be possible), the SoX resampler, the AB comparison tests, Panel and porting Theater View to OpenGL for Mac and Linux support, among other things perhaps you guys can switch gears again in terms of focus with the MC23 development cycle? For example, I think the proposed Pretty Face would be a great focal point during the MC23 cycle. In addition to that (at least on the Windows platform) with 4K video and large video files becoming ever more common and important these days, perhaps the move to 64-bit Windows binaries (to bypass the 4GB Windows limitation) can become a focus with MC23 as well? I think it's a right time to, honestly. Voice control (I need to get an Alexa) and mobile/tablet support are also very important. As mentioned by others, it'd be nice to see JRemote getting some more love.
Audio-wise (for those audio lovers out there), in my honest opinion, there's really not too much that can be added at this point since MC already supports more-or-less everything the audio-only users need. Sure, there's MQA support and Tidal/Qobuz/etc. integration but these can't be added for various reasons (search the forums on why these can't be done!). Maybe enhancements to memory playback? Especially if 64-bit Windows support is done and we can load albums over 4GB (I guess some SACD ISOs or something? Or box sets with multi-disc FLAC files?!?).
But yeah, very excited! You guys are indeed doing very, very well. Kudos to everyone at JRiver!
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Really, I had no idea that the WDM driver supports multichannel inputs. Great, as that is exactly what I need, for streaming movies/series.
How do I configure the WDM as 5.1 in MC?
The wiki doesn't contain much on configuring the WDM driver? :-/
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/WDM_Driver
For whatever it's worth, I always configure the WDM driver in Media Center to be 5.1. That way the surround speakers work really well when playing a movie from Amazon for example.
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How do I configure the WDM as 5.1 in MC?
you don't, you configure the windows audio device as usual (i.e. go to windows audio device properties, click configure, choose 5.1 or 7.1)
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I think there have been a good number of useful incremental improvements during my time with jriver (from MC19->MC22). My overall impression is that, as a standalone player, it does everything I need and works well but where it falls down is as a network of connected devices. I get the impression this is partly the inconsistent behaviour across OS's (linux and windows), partly the bugginess of jremote on android (and the lack of feedback any client gets when the server can't do what it wants) and partly the lack of separation between the server and clients.
Specific examples of the above are;
- aforementioned limitations around what you can actually do to a library from a client
- inability to run linux server with windows client and vice versa (due to the fact paths are not stored in a platform agnostic way but probably also the difference in feature set between client and server, BD support is probably the main one relevant to me)
- client doesn't wake up a server except when it first connects (leads to a variety of client/jremote issues which give the end user a "computer says no" feel)
- the differences in behaviour when the jriver client has dlna on or off (e.g. https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,107711.msg747645.html#msg747645)
- aforementioned zone sync issue
My wish for MC23 would be to bring that side of things closer to just working.
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Overall, I am quite satisfied. MC is one of, if not the most, heavily used applications on my computer. I started with V17(or 18 or 19???) and have seen and benefited from steady improvements and a really responsive and awesome dev team.
My main focus is audio, with video running second. No TV. I should try out images, but haven't.
The media focus missing for me is eBook support. I know there are threads on using MC for ebooks, but it does not have the maturity of other media and a robust eBook library capability would be awesome and, I think, make my collection more accessible.
I appreciate (and take advantage of) the customizability, but the "friendly" screen would help me open it up more for my wife.
I use Gizmo, but it's not the best, perhaps a better remote (haven't tried JRemote) - would like to try before buy though.
Thanks for asking the question. Much appreciated.
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What I feel is lacking (as in, really really lacking) is documentation, an actual updated user manual. The wiki is not in a very good shape, and considering the extreme amount of possibilities in MC, a lot of stuff is largely un-documented.
There is so much I would like to do with MC, but finding information on how to do it is (at least for me) virtually impossible. This forum has a lot of knowledge, but it is far from being a user manual.
My 2p. I've mentioned this a few times before. Rather than a user manual (the wiki does that quite well) MC would benefit from walk-through, getting started and tutorial videos showing off its great features and capabilities. MC is a complex beast (and getting more complex year on year), the forum is useful but the same questions get asked many times and some videos would get people up to speed (and beyond) without them having to visit the forum in the first instance.
MC (and the forum as a matter of fact) needs to drop 'http' and move to 'https only' for improved security.
Spike
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I primarily adopted MC for audiophile pursuits and music collection and appreciate the other features as a bonus. I would love to see greater efficiency in the software. Like, while I go to the file directory, there is often lag getting to the folder I want or reducing the time it takes complete tagging and revisions to the library. When doing a batch of imports, this adds up.
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In general, I'm highly satisfied, as it meets my major criteria: Manage a lot of music and serve it in high fidelity to my audio equipment.
I probably have one foot in the geek camp as I have been in the software business for over 30 years, in every capacity from a programmer (we used not to call ourselves software engineers) to an application engineer to product management and sales. Still, I find it difficult to figure some stuff out (e.g. scripting).
My biggest complaint is that some things are not transparent, such as how play doctor selects songs or how to get MC to improve auto tagging...i consistently get better results using Foobar2000's freedb.
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I definitely like JRiver's audio quality and flexibility, permitting many different views into the music collection and being able to use those same views with remotes such as JRemote. I still haven't found anything else close.
Looking ahead, I'd love to see renewed focus put on improving JRemote, partly with respect to the choice of what tags get displayed for files. (The existing configuration seems largely focused on popular music, largely omitting the conductor, composer, orchestra, soloist tags that JRiver itself supports.) JRemote hasn't gotten much love recently!
With both JRiver and JRemote, it might also be nice to have a metadata-focused (rather than view based) "exploration" mode. I only played with Roon briefly, but there are aspects of its interface approach that seem worthwhile.
(Oh, and color-management for album thumbnails, for those of us with wide-gamut monitors, would be great!)
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Hi
I am all what you mentioned Jim:Home Theater, Audiophiles, TV Enthusiast, Music Collector, Photo management
My library has ~26 000 files including video, audio (~13 000), photos (~8000) pdf's etc. If I am at home MC is always on (dedicated HTPC + NAS) in conjunction with JRemote. I use Windows 10.
In general I am highly satisfied: Devialet AIR with MC simple works with outstanding audio quality and Red October HQ on my OLED returns a stunning picture quality.
Some general thoughts:
If I look a little bit around, others like Roon and Audirvana+ have Tidal/Qobuz integration. For me its always a ? why that is not possible in MC?
The other thing that make me sometimes a little nervous is that some content e.g. Taylor Swifts 1989 Tour concert is only available in the Apple eco or other closed eco systems - even if you pay for it - I hate it! That's has directly nothing to do with MC.
Same thing belongs to UHD - will we ever see integration in MC with the strict DMR Management applied?
Some Enhancements of JRemote would be great in MC 23.
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Thank you for this wonderful program.
Been using MJ/MC for more than 14 years, and like fine wine it keeps getting better and better.
However, I still haven't used MC from outside the home. I think a big area for improvements is to beef up security there.
Support for TLS/SSL and proper certificates is a must in 2017.
In the current state, I would not dare, unless through a VPN between the handheld and the MC server.
Cheers !
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If I look a little bit around, others like Roon and Audirvana+ have Tidal/Qobuz integration. For me its always a ? why that is not possible in MC?
Like I said above, there's already topics on these subjects regarding why Tidal/Qobuz integration isn't possible scattered on the forums. Do a search of the forums for Tidal or Qobuz for more information. :)
I still think the lack of Tidal/Qobuz integration (and the lack of MQA support) is something that should be added to either the FAQ topic or the Wiki since it comes up every so often.
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I still think the lack of Tidal/Qobuz integration (and the lack of MQA support) is something that should be added to either the FAQ topic or the Wiki since it comes up every so often.
I've always felt there should be a 'How to Integrate' page where there are simple instructions as how to best integrate MC to 3rd party services (Tidal, Spotify, Netfilx, Amazon, YouTube etc) . It would describe what can be done and what can't (and why eg lack of public API, licensing etc). With the future of mass media being streaming becoming a reality MC needs to do its best to show how it can best integrate with the ever growing number of propriety streaming services with closed APIs.
Spike
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Hmm, well...
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What I feel is lacking (as in, really really lacking) is documentation, an actual updated user manual. The wiki is not in a very good shape, and considering the extreme amount of possibilities in MC, a lot of stuff is largely un-documented.
There is so much I would like to do with MC, but finding information on how to do it is (at least for me) virtually impossible. This forum has a lot of knowledge, but it is far from being a user manual.
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I have to completely agree with this suggestion. MC is obviously a very complex program with a lot of features that aren't very evident or obvious. I understand that manuals are time consuming to draft and keep current, but I feel it would be very helpful.
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I've been happily using MC to listen to music since MC17 or thereabouts, very happy with it but perhaps not quite as big a fanboy as I was. JRemote - an essential part of my experience -seems to have much weaker and much less-responsive support than it used to, and I seem to be stuck with it needing restarted about 50% of the time on my (not current) iPad, which is irritating. And about half my music listening is now to Qobuz which it seems will never be integrated, so I'm drifting away from MC slowly. I find myself using iPeng through my old Squeezebox Touch to get Qobuz into my DAC. I know there are reasons why MC can't hook up with Qobuz, but it is kinda galling that a cheap plastic defunct streamer - the Touch - somehow offers better integration. I looked at Roon, it was hopeless. But they've a new release which I might have another look at .. so, dunno what the future holds for me and MC. Still can't see anything that comes close for my own music though, but streaming services like Qobuz offer treasures that were unimaginable a few years ago, and they will soon be streaming 24/96 masters so MC can't anymore be my only way of listening to music. Pity.
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Theater view in 2160p, high quality skin and text/image rendering
Customisable HEVC transcoding for network clients ( + more audio transcoding options )
Network clients auto content restriction ( no passwords/user folders needed in theater mode, clients will automatically see what the server admin has enabled for them to see )
Download button for clients in theater view to be able to download the video/audio/subtitle file ( or all file folder contents ) from the library server to the client for offline viewing
More streamlined audio/video/subtitle control during playback ( with one push of a button on the remote - next audio track, subtitle selection, subtitle timing, subtitle size, shift )
Global subtitle shift is missing
Dont stop with open subtitles, there are many similar sites in each country
Define keyboard shortcuts to each function to simplify remote control setup
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Customisable HEVC transcoding for network clients
HEVC encoding is way too slow for live transcoding for streaming, you would have to reduce the quality so drastically that there are no benefits to be gained at this time. Better to stick to high quality H.264 encodes that we offer now.
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MC (and the forum as a matter of fact) needs to drop 'http' and move to 'https only' for improved security.
The forum does use https.
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HEVC encoding is way too slow for live transcoding for streaming, you would have to reduce the quality so drastically that there are no benefits to be gained at this time. Better to stick to high quality H.264 encodes that we offer now.
iGPU´s and discrete GPU´s with HEVC HW encoding/decoding acceleration are some time on the market. But I agree, it´s not even more than 10% users, so this could come maybe at a later date.
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I've always felt there should be a 'How to Integrate' page
and a 'How to Ask a Question Properly' page
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I love MC and it's (by far) my most used piece of software. I've seen lots of improvements and neat features land in MC and I can't think of any other software that even comes close to covering all the bases. There are some things I'd like to see more of (of course), but I'd like to extend my thanks to everyone on the team for great software that has (not even exaggerating) enriched my life. Media Center made my active speaker build possible and has made it much easier for my family to see and hear what we want to see hear when we want to see it :-)
I think there have been a good number of useful incremental improvements during my time with jriver (from MC19->MC22). My overall impression is that, as a standalone player, it does everything I need and works well but where it falls down is as a network of connected devices. I get the impression this is partly the inconsistent behaviour across OS's (linux and windows), partly the bugginess of jremote on android (and the lack of feedback any client gets when the server can't do what it wants) and partly the lack of separation between the server and clients.
I think this sums up my feelings about areas for improvement to a large extent. I'd like a little more flexibility and consistency in the client/server model (along the lines mattkhan mentioned). The only "pain points" I have with existing functionality are issues with DLNA, the network stack, or the server/client system. Sometimes it's a design issue (lack of cross-platform paths or cross-platform feature parity limit the ability to have everything work 100% cross-platform, etc.) and sometimes DLNA playback fails unexpectedly, etc. These aren't big issues, but are little bits of polish that would make the whole thing a little more painless for the family.
In terms of new features my #1 area of interst is cross-platform feature parity. Things are moving in a really great direction, and the linux version is tantalizingly close to the windows version, but there are still little holes. It sounds like TV support may not be achievable, but some kind of input stream (ala line in or the WDM driver) for linux would be great to see. Especially given how easy it is to make a fake audio device in linux (you can make one by just editing a config file), it's just providing an interface to hook it up to MC.
I came in during MC 17 (I think). Here's to another 5 great years!
Then there are users like Marko and mwillems (and many others) who aren't technical by vocation but have managed to educate themselves and lead others. Are they geeks? I don't know, but they deserve our recognition and gratitude for their kind hearted sharing of their hard-won knowledge.
Thanks for the kind words Jim, I'm blushing ;D
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The forum does use https.
But unfortunately not 'https only'. It currently supports http and https and it does not re-direct all http requests to https. Here's the http login page, for example, that's not encrypted. :(
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=login
All the forum pages appear to be accessible over http. Eg
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,106802.0.html
Any reason the forum is not being re-directed to https?
And MC? Panel is only accessible over http, for example. :(
Spike
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As I've said elsewhere, I bought MC22 mainly based on the plans/promise for:
- Improved access to metadata
- Metadata retrieval in the appropriate language when possible.
Unless metadata means "subtitles", I have seen no serious improvement in these two fields in this product cycle. I would have liked to take advantage of the Musicbrainz tagging, but some fields are not imported in MC. I would also have liked much better handling of scraping for multiple video files - no luck there, again; so it seems surreal to even hope using IMDB as a source at some point. I haven't had a lot of time for MC or for this board, but I did mention the above in related threads - to no avail. So, yes, MC works OK for me, but I do feel a little conned.
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Hi,
metadate in different language then englisch would be great.
I need movie informations in german, my wife understands no english.
So I have to collect this in an different tool, so no automation for me.
Every movie is handmade information, no fun.
This is my biggest wish for v23.
Second is network connectivity, sometimes have problems with tuner over network (sat card is in the server).
JRemote is not as good as it could be (use it on android), DLNA for new Sony TV's is not working (video streaming) and so on.
Dolby Atmos and dts-X decoder would be great for homecinemas.
But I love JRiver (use it since v18), use it for my dedicated home cinema with beamer, on an dedicated audio pc in an full active setup with convolving and for normal viewing of music/videos/youtube/pictures on normal pc/notebook, also sometimes listen to music at work over the internet connected to my home library.
BR
Erich
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We look at it a little differently. How can we organize and play all kinds of media in a cohesive way, so the logic of one applies to another?
And how can we do it seamlessly across networks? How can we unify an increasingly diverse playing field of operating systems?
MC is great, continues to improve, and I appreciate that it progressively gets harder as we get older ;D
On the play anything/anywhere front there are some missing bits:
- Remotes: Evolution of the Remotes into Clients
- Remotes: Option to transcode Internet Streams via the DSP profiles for streaming to clients instead of handing off the url (like with all "local" media)
- Remotes: Add TV (EOS does this but not JRemote)
- Protocols: Airplay, Sonos etc
In addition, the focus on TV is a good example of filling in the basic feature set and hence has matured a lot in MC22. Other areas that could do with rounding out:
- Zones: keeping them in Sync
- BD: Menus
- BD: Chapter based Particles with Meta Data scraping
- Video: More flexible Transcoding Options
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I would have liked to take advantage of the Musicbrainz tagging, but some fields are not imported in MC. I would also have liked much better handling of scraping for multiple video files
Please start a subject on each of these and provide some details. Or bump one if you have already.
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I've moved to windows media center because I don't use cable boxes, and I'm afraid my cable company is going to turn on DRM on all of my channels but I still keep up with JRiver because I know someday I'll want to move on so here are some thoughts about the program.
Looking around the different version of Windows, JRiver does a good job of unifying all of the different media applications. In Windows 7 for instance, you get a list view, and metadata in windows media player; The photo apps in Windows 7 lets you tag, or change other metadata about a photo, and publish it to social media; Windows Media Center lets you watch live TV, and Movies, and windows 8 and 10 each have something similar. With JRiver, you kind of get all of this in one big application, and that is a good thing.
After playing around with Windows Media Center, I appreciate how codecs, and file management are built into JRiver, and comparing it to other programs like Kodi, I think JRiver still comes out ahead in terms of out of the box setup. As long as you can figure out a tv tuner, and tv setup, then very little technical knowledge is needed to setup JRiver to the point where it will sort, and play your files.
Now for some things you might consider changing. The big two for me are the lack of a play ready license, and the interface. It is easier to navigate around Windows Media Center's 10 ft. UI. Consider adding a skin where you can immediately get to movies or especially live tv or the tv guide with only two or three button presses. Your 10 ft. UI is simple enough for someone like me who works regularly with a computer but when I see people who are not familiar with PCs try to use it, they all get confused.
Comparing this to WMC, getting to something like the TV guide isn't as obvious. The biggest thing I hear people say when they navigate around programs like JRiver, or Kod is that they have no idea what they are doing (They get lost in the UI), and they don't want to break anything (Lack of computer Knowledge). Really simple things like even pressing a button can scare them so having a UI that is as simple, and obvious as possible would go a long way. Presenting the user with a choice between TV, Movies, Photos, and Music right from the get go would make things a lot simpler. In JRiver, we get a choice between video, then tv, or audio, then music without icons or anything else that might reinforce the user's confidence that they are using the program correctly. Try thinking about how you can make new users confident that they are choosing the correct part of the software when they navigate around. I see people get confused about what "Watch Live TV" means so I understand this is no small undertaking.
A strategy that I don't really see a lot media centers pushing really hard, aside from maybe plex, is that users have to convince their families to engage with the platform above all else. If your UI can save me hours of frustration trying to explain to someone that the back button will get them back into the main menu, then you will make me as a customer a lot happier. I see tons of people using apple phones, and IPads and they know where they are within the UI all of the time because their choices are relatively limited, and adding the ease of navigation into JRiver might help.
Find a solution to DRM. I know this isn't cheap or easy, and the whole thing sucks but there are a lot of people out there that are stuck with WMC because it has a playready license. I realize you have tried this in the past but that was a few years ago, and maybe if you approach it differently, you will get a different result.
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I would love to see MC 'everywhere' for video and audio. The rest of the industry seems to be embracing the 'app ecosystem' model and a minimum requirement for many people is that they can use their media solution on all of their existing devices and set top boxes both on and offline. Trying to use and maintain an HTPC on my secondary TV's got to be too much of a pain and JRemote's limitations on iOS has me now using a combination of MC for library management and critical use and Plex for all distributed content (living room TV, phones, tablets, etc).
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Now for some things you might consider changing. The big two for me are the lack of a play ready license, and the interface. It is easier to navigate around Windows Media Center's 10 ft. UI. Consider adding a skin where you can immediately get to movies or especially live tv or the tv guide with only two or three button presses. Your 10 ft. UI is simple enough for someone like me who works regularly with a computer but when I see people who are not familiar with PCs try to use it, they all get confused.
Comparing this to WMC, getting to something like the TV guide isn't as obvious. The biggest thing I hear people say when they navigate around programs like JRiver, or Kod is that they have no idea what they are doing (They get lost in the UI), and they don't want to break anything (Lack of computer Knowledge). Really simple things like even pressing a button can scare them so having a UI that is as simple, and obvious as possible would go a long way. Presenting the user with a choice between TV, Movies, Photos, and Music right from the get go would make things a lot simpler. In JRiver, we get a choice between video, then tv, or audio, then music without icons or anything else that might reinforce the user's confidence that they are using the program correctly. Try thinking about how you can make new users confident that they are choosing the correct part of the software when they navigate around. I see people get confused about what "Watch Live TV" means so I understand this is no small undertaking.
It seems you have experience with a number of the alternatives out there. Do you have an MCE remote (or clone)? MC uses these natively and all the buttons are there for direct access to Theater View functions - TV, Music, Guide, Live TV, Movies etc.
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Others have already mentioned some of my points, but I'd like to chip in as well. Before I start, I realise how easy it is to criticize from the sideline. So I want to let you guys know I really love your software. 8) But there are some things that could (should?) be improved, if you were asking me, which I'm sure nobody is.... ;)
Because my own shrink got tired of me, and since I did pay for this software, please allow me to speak my mind. ;D
- JRemote drove me away from iTunes (and MC's superior sound settings). I'd love to see it being updated more frequently. Especially to keep it speedy and having it connecting quickly or instantly, even in the background and when using other apps. JRemote is a unique piece of software. For me, this software is my primary reason to continue using MC. It's unique. It's awesome.
- I teach Adobe software for a living, so I don't consider myself a computer illiterate. But I find myself struggling with MC from time to time. I'd like to see a more modern interface. Doing things quickly and intuitively are not two things that come to mind using MC. For instance, the 'right click -> Locate'-function is such an obscure way of doing such an easy thing quickly (such as finding the artist or album). I think iTunes uses an arrow on the right side of a column, that allows a much quicker and easier way to find related information.
- Some things I take for granted in other software seems works differently in JRiver MC. I know I'm missing out on certain functions, simply because I don't understand a lot of these features, options or settings. Some of them aren't even documented! I must be honest: because I don't understand some things, I don't bother with them.
- The documentation / wiki is very poor and out of date.
- I'd love to see more functionality concerning lyrics. Automatic Lyrics look-up, for instance. Also, the lyrics are very poorly displayed and can only be shown via an unintuitive way. The way that tag-pop-up works on the lower left side just isn't very usable.
- Support stores such as Qobuz.
- A visual waveform viewer could be nice as well.
- I really dislike (IE: hate) how MC 'forgets' the tree position of open and closed items. Why doesn't MC keep track of items I opened since the last time I ran the software? Also, there's a keyboard shortcut to collapse all tree items (CNTR-G?). But not to open them all... ?
- Panel... Using JRemote and knowing about Gizmo; I simply don't get it. I tried Panel and I find it lacking. It looks more of an experiment and it is far from usable at this point. So sorry if I'm offending anyone. I'm simply and bluntly speaking my mind.
- Gizmo really, really and I mean really needs an interface overhaul. It just looks so horribly dated. I don't understand / get why there are three software products that could be merged into one: panel, jremote and gizmo. It seems such a waste of resources. :-X
- The JRiver.com website really needs an update. It could be a lot more effective promoting your products.
That said, I'm a happy camper. As long as JRemote stays strong, I'll be your customer. I love MC and wouldn't dream of going back to iTunes.
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JimH, great spiderweb analogy. Reminds me of this recent article by a former MS Office developer.
If the product starts to grow complex — and you can predict that fairly directly by looking at the size of the development team — then costs will come to be dominated by that increasing feature interaction and essential complexity. Project after project has demonstrated there is nothing about language or underlying technical infrastructure that changes that fundamental curve... So “free code” tends to be “free as in puppy” rather than “free as in beer”.
https://hackernoon.com/complexity-and-strategy-325cd7f59a92 (https://hackernoon.com/complexity-and-strategy-325cd7f59a92)
I've been a JRiver Media Center customer since MC15 in 2009, and like many here it is one the programs I use it on a daily, sometimes hourly, basis. Thank you all for all your hard work. Also, thank you for soliciting input from customers so frequently. It's hard to think of another software company that is as responsive as JRiver.
A few thoughts on my current use:
-In the past 8 years, many other media managers either have come and gone, or have changed interface significantly every 9 months as part of a business model (Google images, for example.) I'm so glad you all don't reinvent yourself every version by building a totally new software interface, and I'm sure a lot of other people think this too and don't say it. Thanks!
- Because core interface and functionality of JRiver has remained basically the same since 2009, many of the skills I picked up in the early days via Interact are still very useful. For example, I learned how to build new Views from Marko's threads in 2012, or setting up servers based on Glynor's system descriptions and diagrams in 2009. Hilton's multi room audio systems and awesome computer builds. Or anything posted by MrC, man I miss that guy. Basically yabb.jriver.com is a fantastic corner of the Internet. Thanks for building this forum and keeping Interact a great place to post and learn.
-My main use of JRiver is as a digital media file catalog, organizer, server, and player. Main focus is music, I've got an semi-audiophile system, a couple kitchen sink systems, a music production computer, and a bunch of phones. JRiver gets used on all of them. It's hard to think of any area or system which it doesn't serve very well.
-Media Files are complicated. People who get this, immediately get JRiver. I have recommended the program to a lot of people who need advanced file management features and tagging capabilities for video, photos, or media. Most of them now have JRiver licences.
Thoughts on my future use:
I'd love to see better PDF tagging. Then I could use JRiver to tag sheet music and pair sheet music, chord charts, and scores with recordings. Right now saving tags to files on pdf doesn't seem as straightforward as with audio files. JRiver tags sometimes appear in other programs, sometime don't. I'll start a new thread if this is an area of interest. Haven't seen a lot of interest in PDF tagging and organizing on this forum, but it seems like a logical extension of the JRiver toolkit to me.
Big picture-wise, I think streaming is here to stay. Everybody I know gets their media from multiple sources. This has definitely changed how I use JRiver, and I imagine this will continue to change. There are a lot of choices now and I use a pastiche approach.
In our house, that means Amazon Video, Google Movies and Youtube via Chromecast, and Pandora. We don't watch any broadcast or cable TV, unless you count SNL on Youtube. Sports are mostly commercials (I get bored fast.) News...oy. There was a short time when I thought I would just use Theater View for all media, but the Chromecast and Amazon video won for me in the end. I only watch movies and videos once, so a local archive isn't that important for me.
So in the past year I've explored ways of making JRiver + Engen + a few other programs the "brains" of a multi source media system and eventually control the entire house. Like this:
https://youtu.be/I4fLwMEhyts?t=38m23s
;D
But ideally, you would hit play on any source and zone, input, volume, lighting, and beverage of choice would just magically appear. I've gotten close by using .bat scripts and Eventghost triggers to send IR commands and switch Engen devices. I'll update how I currently do this in a post when I have time. Still working on the beverage of choice...
There are a couple of things that could make the "House Brain" work better:
-Flawless Zone Sync, with millisecond audio clock adjustments aka Hilton's Airplay via Tuneblade. With the WDM driver taking audio inputs and zone audio sync, the PI ID system could effectively replace an expensive Sonos with stereos of choice. It seems like a big market and there is no choice for zone sync other than custom wiring or Sonos.
-Conditional triggers in Engen (I have a hunch this is in the works), based on a sensor's state or even on a computer event.
-Customizable HDMI CEC and IR blasts to control other electronics and set inputs etc. JRiver does some of this but I use Eventghost to get full customization. Engen IR blaster, for example?
-Some way to display MetaData for songs from streaming sources (I'm sure this is possible...but probably very difficult/expensive)
-Simple controls that allow custom single button presses (for example, in the kitchen I don't want to use a phone, all I want is a big button to start a smartlist and another to stop playback.)
-Engen Scene and Smartlist Integration...so music plays in the pool when Clive James jumps in for a swim.
As far as MC23, many fantastic suggestions abound in this thread. I'm personally looking forward to seeing what comes next. Thanks for all your efforts, and thanks for listening!
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To be honest .. not so great. I embraced the concept (home theatre and audio user) with MC19. Loaded all my music, films and video into it. I use it every day. I like it but recent improvements seem to have passed me by and what used to be small frustrations have grown because they have either not been addressed or I never discovered they had been solved.
A few examples:
--like a previous poster, I still don't get the browser window with its tabs. It may do many things but I cannot even type anything into what in other browsers is the address field
--playlists: Wiki says somewhere MC can read xml playlists. iTunes produces xml files for the benefit of non-Apple software (iTunes Music Library.xml). Sonos can read these files and automatically imports the playlists found in them. MC cannot do it. It may be able to read individual playlists saved in xml format but that is not useful to me because I have too many of them and they tend to change often. It is all very well to say that it has its own (and better) way of approaching music as one commentator did, but I am sure I am not the only one whose time is limited and cannot be bothered to try to keep multiple systems in sync. I run MC in the home theatre; elsewhere in the house Sonos runs the music show. However much I would like to do without it, I need iTunes to serve music for my phone and iPad. It would be great if MC fitted into all this seamlessly.
--music sorting: to this day I have not succeeded in finding a way to show my music sorted by album. Invariably the same album appears all over the place. All I want sometimes is to group and sort my music by album on the basis of the album title only. I would have thought this is fairly elementary, but perhaps I am missing something?
--remote app: works fine but not very good for classical music lovers
Don't get me wrong. MC is a a great program, but it is showing its age a bit and looks and behaves like something from the previous century (in our household I am the only one to use it; the others find it way too complex).
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It seems you have experience with a number of the alternatives out there. Do you have an MCE remote (or clone)? MC uses these natively and all the buttons are there for direct access to Theater View functions - TV, Music, Guide, Live TV, Movies etc.
I use MCE remotes, and I have the same remote everywhere. Part of what gets even me lost in the theater view interface is that if I don't remember to make sure some of the menu choices at the top or bottom of the screen aren't "in focus" I.E. they haven't been highlighted by someone accidently pressing the wrong button, then I end up somewhere I didn't intend to go. Its little tedious things like that.
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Split PDF Management (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,110348.0.html)
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Jim, you list the main MC community as Home Theater, Audiophiles, TV Enthusiasts, Music Collectors, seems spot-on. I adopted MJ/MC around 2001 for exactly that.
BUT, MC promises to do more. On the splash screen, and in the default views tree, MC announces that it handles Audio, Video and IMAGES.
But as various MC user discussions show, IMAGES seems to be the least-evolved, and that's a shame. MC is so close... And the opportunity is real. So many other photo-oriented sites/apps have become phone-obsessed, simplistic apps which do not help anyone who is serious about polishing, organizing and managing their photos (and scans and PDFs and other images).
Is doing a bit more work on MC's IMAGES mode worthwhile? Start with existing customers: I bet many MC users already have, and continue to create, photos that beg for decent management. Consider the frequency and quantity of how people get new audio or video files to manage, vs. the landslide of photos that are created via the so-called phone in everyone's pocket. 10X more, 100X more, 1000X more? People needing to manage Images/photos seems like a potential market that is orders of magnitude larger than managing audio, which seems larger than managing video.
I agree with Musichawk. JRiver has a wonderful starting point for images but some further work is needed.
I have made several tries at using MC for image management. After getting some great advice from Musichawk and Marko, I'm rapidly getting a MC workflow for images in place. The user interface for selecting and tagging images is much more powerful than what other image editors/managers provide.
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Hi,
my problem with JRiver and images is, that I have 70% raw images which I edited in Lightroom.
So I see only unedited images in JRiver.
JPEGs out of this I have only online (in my case in onedrive and some on flickr), no local jpeg copy - but this would be the only solution I think to use this with JRiver.
BR
Erich
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Hi,
After reading the additional posts, I got two more points:
- stability! Started with 17, and since 22 it is running ultra-stable (Win10, 25k+ songs, 300 videos, convolving, ROHQ)! My sony-BDplayer needed more reboots than MC... Thanks a lot for this, guys ;D
- browser: yeah, agree, no clue how this should work. If I accidently click it, it's always creepy for me :o 8)
Just bought MC23 ;)
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I am using JRiver as an active crossover for my speakers. Don't get me wrong, JRiver's DSP studio has some incredible features, and it has incredible potential, but as of currently it is really lacking in the DSP studio area for usability.
My main issue: JRiver has done all the hard work on making the DSP studio technically fantastic for an active crossover solution, but it is frustrating to see how user unfriendly and cumbersome it is to use, and that's the easy part! The good thing is it'll only take a little bit of work will go a long way.
0. Get the volume control keys working on WDM!!!
1. There should be a matrix mixer. I should not have to manually copy my left and right channels to 8 other channels to start with a 4 way crossover.
2. Linkwitz Riley crossovers need to be implemented. Right now we have to do 2 Butterworth filters to make a Linkwitz Riley crossover. That's just silly.
3. We should be able to rename channels so we know which channel is for what driver.
4. There should be a way to group filters together for one channel so it is easy to see what is done for each channel (driver).
5. Option to apply a different convolution for each channel
6. Option to apply plugins and effects for specific channels
7. Make peak level meter MUCH more meaningful. It is so easy to exceed 100%. I need to see on what channel it is exceeding 100%. What's contributing to the number?
8. WDM driver needs to have the option to be able to stay on all the time to prevent start up stutter.
9. Drag to multi select a number of filters. After needing to create 20-30 filters just to get started, there is no easy way to delete all filters to start over besides deleting one by one.
Don't get me wrong, JRiver has some seriously advanced and powerful features under DSP studio that is so far ahead any DSP I've ever used, but there are some embarrassingly basic usability problems that are seriously holding back this amazing feature. It is so bad that I've been extensively working with active speakers for years and I just heard about JRiver as a computer based active crossover DSP. The features are so much better (and cheaper) than DSPs or other PC/Linux software solutions it is comparing a high school basketball team player vs Lebron James, yet so few people use it. It's because there's major usability issues. If I wasn't determined, I would have long given up on JRiver instead of spending weeks trying to find solutions to basic usability issues that should never exist (and certainly doesn't on other platforms).
The amount of work to fix the usability up is trivial compared to some of the advanced features that are implemented. It feels like JRiver designed a Lamborghini with all the wonderful engineering, but the steering wheel is two left and right buttons. I hope JRiver's dev team can spend a little time to improve the basic usability issues of DSP studio.
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I have just bought a master for mc23. As much as I like JRiver I am kindly requesting to improve subtitles feature. It is not so important for English spoken nations but a must for the rest of the world. There was a huge step forward in mc22, yet there are a few improvements to be done.
1. In get movie & tv info the only subtitles working are srt. No sub or tmp although they are listed there.
2. Timing of the subtitles. PLEASE PLEASE work on this in the first place. It simply works in some mysterious way. I am always spending several minutes to get the subs right if they are out of order after downloading. The values are not correct with what I see and hear. Someone requested -5000/ +5000 ms. Thats fine, but do I have to move forward or backward starting with -5000 when I need to change from +1800 to +1900 for example? Why it doesnt start with 0 or a previously chosen value? It would be much better to input a proper values manualy. Or the Best Solution: make some short Keys to work on subtitles while watching a movie. It works beatifully in Best player that way. Apart from that thank you for your work.
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It would be much better to input a proper values manualy. Or the Best Solution: make some short Keys to work on subtitles while watching a movie. It works beatifully in Best player that way.
I've suggested something similar several times.
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Wanna know how to make $$$$$$$ ? Find a way that ID bitstreams DSD over hdmi !
For the video part times are changing....it's only a matter of time until the kodis (libbluray etc...) and mkv's will subsist....never forget once aacs circumvention is dead which all dvdfab redfoxes makmkv use there will be no more new video files copy to hd....sad but that's reality.
UHD forget it on pc...will be at nightmare...cyberlink takes the bet....all circumvention parties already stated hand-off uhd
Maybe a better attention to have jriver server command hardware players aka oppo could be an idea...all these players work brilliantly but have no graphical beauty for livraries...
Just my 50c
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IMO, DSD is a niche market, hardly what I'd call a way to make $$$$.
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IMO, DSD is a niche market, hardly what I'd call a way to make $$$$.
Not with deep pockets audiophiles. A lot of them have av receivers that can receive dsd bitstremed over hdmi but nothing outside of sacd or universal players can deliver it. That's where the dac market is now booming...
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-Simple controls that allow custom single button presses (for example, in the kitchen I don't want to use a phone, all I want is a big button to start a smartlist and another to stop playback.)
You just gave me an idea!
I use Philips hue lights in my house, and they have a "dimmer remote" with 4 buttons.
With EventGhost it should be easy for me to poll the remote, and use it to start playing a radio station and control the volume of MC. Excellent for the kitchen. I could even let it rotate between a playlist of radio stations, at the touch of a button.
Thanks for the great idea!
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0. Get the volume control keys working on WDM!!!
The volume control in JRiver works exactly the same when playing files as it does on WDM. I don't see what is wrong with that?
1. There should be a matrix mixer. I should not have to manually copy my left and right channels to 8 other channels to start with a 4 way crossover.
I agree that it is an annoyance, but it isn't really a big issue. You do it once and never again.
2. Linkwitz Riley crossovers need to be implemented. Right now we have to do 2 Butterworth filters to make a Linkwitz Riley crossover. That's just silly.
Agreed. LR filters should be there, and it should be possible to select the Q-factor for any 2.-8. order filter. The present "S"-value doesn't make any sense.
3. We should be able to rename channels so we know which channel is for what driver.
Agreed. Especially since MC had incorrect naming for the rear-/sidechannels, I have not tested wether that has been fixed. But for multichannel crossovers it would be very beneficial with the ability to rename channels.
4. There should be a way to group filters together for one channel so it is easy to see what is done for each channel (driver).
Agreed.
5. Option to apply a different convolution for each channel
That exists, I use convolution for every separate channel in my system.
6. Option to apply plugins and effects for specific channels
That I believe is possible..?
7. Make peak level meter MUCH more meaningful. It is so easy to exceed 100%. I need to see on what channel it is exceeding 100%. What's contributing to the number?
Agreed, the current peak level meter is not very useful.
8. WDM driver needs to have the option to be able to stay on all the time to prevent start up stutter.
Agreed, the WDM driver in general needs some work.
9. Drag to multi select a number of filters. After needing to create 20-30 filters just to get started, there is no easy way to delete all filters to start over besides deleting one by one.
Why do you want to start over, you could instead modify the filters.
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8. WDM driver needs to have the option to be able to stay on all the time to prevent start up stutter.
jjazdk addressed most of your points excellently, but number 8 already exists. If you go under the File menu and select "open live" you can select "WASAPI Loopback." This is very similar to the WDM driver, but it will redirect the output from whatever the default audio device is. I recommend choosing something other than the WDM driver as a default to avoid routing conflicts (the motherboard soundcard or an unused HDMi output for example). Once you turn loopback on, it stays on until you turn it off.
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reminder of an old thread re DSP related functionality - https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,99096.msg685880.html#msg685880
I think all of this is still relevant today
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jjazdk addressed most of your points excellently, but number 8 already exists. If you go under the File menu and select "open live" you can select "WASAPI Loopback." This is very similar to the WDM driver, but it will redirect the output from whatever the default audio device is. I recommend choosing something other than the WDM driver as a default to avoid routing conflicts (the motherboard soundcard or an unused HDMi output for example). Once you turn loopback on, it stays on until you turn it off.
I think he meant something else, than what you suggest, but I could be mistaken.
My interpretation of his wish is for the WDM driver to always steal the windows stream, also when MC is playing a local file. This to avoid the stutter that happens each and every time, when trying to play a WDM stream.
For me WDM has been a struggle for a loooooong time, and still is. It always stutters for quite some time, when I go from playing a local file to a WDM stream. The stutters will become less frequent (but never completely dissapear) the longer the WDM stream has been running. After 5-10 minutes (sometimes it takes more than half an hour) the WDM stream seams to reach a stable state, where I get a stutter every half minute, or every minute if I am really lucky.
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I think he meant something else, than what you suggest, but I could be mistaken.
My interpretation of his wish is for the WDM driver to always steal the windows stream, also when MC is playing a local file. This to avoid the stutter that happens each and every time, when trying to play a WDM stream.
For me WDM has been a struggle for a loooooong time, and still is. It always stutters for quite some time, when I go from playing a local file to a WDM stream. The stutters will become less frequent (but never completely dissapear) the longer the WDM stream has been running. After 5-10 minutes (sometimes it takes more than half an hour) the WDM stream seams to reach a stable state, where I get a stutter every half minute, or every minute if I am really lucky.
Based on his other threads, I think he was talking about the stutter right when the WDM driver starts up in the first few seconds; I've never seen the issue you're describing with stutters continuing after the opening moments (once the WDM driver fully starts it's stutter free for me), but I definitely hear a brief stutter everytime a stream starts as the WDM driver is latching on and a few seconds of audio are lost . So I think he wanted a way to turn on the WDM driver and have it stay on to avoid the stutter when it first starts up, and the loopback solves that problem. If you play a local file the loopback just switches off, and you can switch the loopback on again at the end if you want.
The only time I've seen recurrent stuttering with the WDM was when my buffers weren't correct, but it looks like you've been through all that already based on prior posts.
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To be honest, I haven't upgraded since MC20. I quit checking the forum regularly, and I pop in every so often to see if there are any improvements. While I know for certain that the work on Mac and Linux, as well as TV Recording, was a huge undertaking, as a Windows/Android user, it doesn't really effect me.
Things that have been discussed ad nauseam that I would still like to see: improvements to Theater View, porting to Android, and synchronized zone play-back. Until there is any work done in those areas, personally, I see no reason to upgrade.
I consume almost all my media via streaming through phone, tablet, or Fire TV now. To that end, MC has been mainly relegated to just a media server these days. Mostly, just for family pictures, podcasts, and work-out videos. Almost all of my video and audio is streamed now, so Library Management is minimal, and my main front end on the TV is Amazon or Kodi. The Kodi interface is easier and preferred by the wife and kids. Occasionally, if I get the house to myself for bit, I'll pull up MC to listen to hi-res music, but that is rare.
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JRemote completes me! ;D
Big fan of JRiver MC22 (Windows 10). JRemote (iPhone 7) still remains far and away the best music streamer out there. I realize some folks have had issues with the JRemote support as of late but it works seamlessly for me. Use it for remote streaming several hours of every day. No need for Spotify or whatever paid streaming services out there. And, I've recommended JRiver to many folks.
Please keep up the good work!
Spencer
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Now that i jave built a new media center around a Geforce 1080 GTX TI (it's for 4K gaming too) i have switched completely to jriver and have dumped kodi and hopefully soon plex
jriver is the best for hd audio and for 3D video. i have huge collections of both. on the audio side it plays everything i have flawlessly: flac multi-channel, any sampling and bit rate; dsd without issue as well.
it has a somewhat confusing interface or perhaps not as pretty as kodi or plex but jremote on my ipad more than makes up for it. jremote is great - an excelent native app that i hope continues to be updated
my next steps are to try and get it working like plex where i can watch my content on the go. i travel frequently and this is important to me.
i appreciate the customizability of jriver but find the documentation and guides lacking. it takes a lot of research to get things the way i want them but satisfying when i do.
in summary - great product. jriver + jremote have turned my home theater into a special place. the stability is also excellent and the inclusion of madvr is awesome too (thus my 3D support)
great product - worth every penny
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Thank you.
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I'm splitting topics that become discussions.
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The same as always , keeping ahead of the game and providing a superlative service and unbeatable product, the forum remains the mainstay of all queries on MC.
I really only use MC for music , although I collate all my video in there as well for convenience.
This year I have undertaken a project of adding a custom tag "Composition" to my classical stuff, the ease of tagging with MC became very apparent as did all the Text Tools in Library tools. I used "Another" product (MusiCHI Tagger) to help with Composition lookups and standardisation of spelling etc., but for the editing and tagging I always came back to MC.
The real good bit is the ability to create a custom View to allow me to filter Composer> Genre> Composition > Artist so that with a few clicks I can see all the recordings of a specific work and choose from there . On top of that all via my iPad in my armchair what more can I ask. I have peeked at the opposition over the years and nothing comes close to allowing such detailed customisation as MC.
The only lowlight (if I may call it that) is that JRemote seems to be getting minimal attention. I appreciate the developer issue you had but I suspect that JRemote is a major contributor to a lot of peoples usage of MC from a playback point of view rather than the maintenance elements. I for one do all my tagging , management etc of my "Big Machine" at a desk but when it comes to REAL listening I head straight for JRemote on my iPad.
That said keep up the good work and I look forward to 23
Mike
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Hi,
First, I would like to say thanks to all the people that make JRiver work.
I've been using it for a few years and overall I'm happy with it.
I use it for music and video (200,000 files ish) and overall is a good all in one solution.
But I find there are some issues that they don't seem to get sorted.
I don't know if I am extracting the most out of my HiFi and/or JRiver.
It's setup in a way that it works but due to the complexity of the options (in a positive way),
the lack of information and my lack of knowledge about certain subjects, I'm not sure if it could work better.
I don't find it user friendly: as mentioned before, it requires an awful amount of time to set it up from scratch. So either you dedicate "a bit" of time browsing and reading before setting it up or you are in trouble. Family and friends who I recommended JRiver to, once they look at it they either gave up or I finished setting it up for them. It's time consuming to make it work.
Would not be possible to have a "basic" setting and an "advance " setting?
Tagging classical music is "hard work " :)
JRiver for Synology?
Tagging from Client to Server?
JREMOTE development?
Many thanks
O
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Tagging classical music is a nightmare but not really an MC issue . The base tagging on the ripped or imported files is inevitably wrong . ;D
The worst example is putting the Composer in the Artist Tag
At least mc allows easy editing
Mike
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That exists, I use convolution for every separate channel in my system.
How are you applying a different convolution for every channel in JRiver?
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How are you applying a different convolution for every channel in JRiver?
Using a cfg file - https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Convolution#Using_the_Filter_in_Media_Center
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With only a couple of months before release, where can I find information about the new features in v23?
I've used JRiver for several years. It plays music well.
However, if I put my user hat on, JRiver is a Swiss Army knife for multimedia. As a user experience it is less than impressive since it is more of an engineer's dream.
Features like library management are so involved I don't bother and use iTunes for management.
I would never recommend it to anyone who wanted to use it on a casual basis.
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However, if I put my user hat on, JRiver is a Swiss Army knife for multimedia. As a user experience it is less than impressive since it is more of an engineer's dream.
Features like library management are so involved I don't bother and use iTunes for management.
I would say the opposite. One of the main reasons for using JRiver is the library management. so there I have just proved that the user base has quite wide desires. As for the Swiss army knife metaphore, that was a good one! And similar to the Swiss army knife, I use the main knife blade and the Phillips screw driver mainly, the tooth pick and the rest is usually left untouched. And I could wish they spent more time improving the knife blade rather than the wine bottle opener, but there are a lot of poeple that like their glass of red also, so I accept that.
I would never recommend it to anyone who wanted to use it on a casual basis.
I agree. I would not recommend it to an unskilled computer person or to anyone that do not have a quite high interest in using computers in general. But I would never recommend Plex either (to take one example). My experience with computer based media management and playback is that is requires a minimum skill level and interest, regardless of which application you choose. Some degree of troubleshooting is necessary from time to time.
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I've upgraded every year since MC18, and just bought master MC23. I'm an audiophile, and that's my priority. I use it for audio only, but aspire to do more. What really holds me back is the complexity and IMO still very fragmented docs. You've done some good things for beginners, but why not do that for intermediate users? I like the how to/walk/thru idea.
I wish you'd raise the price by $10 and put all of that into docs and ease of use. Your kidding yourselves if you think this isn't holding you back. I have no idea how to use the browser, and finding out how is too hard for me to bother. I hate posting simple questions to the forum when I should be able to easily look them up.
Please keep audiophiles in mind as you go. I've noticed some welcome improvement, but more is needed. I'm on mac now but will switch soon to windows where I have more options and better sound. I also want lossless streaming REALLY bad. If I find that I like end to end MQA, once I buy an MQA DAC in <12 mo, then that will be another imperative. Tidal baby. Full SoX support is highly desired as well.
I'd love to try to replace my dvr and prepro with MC, but fear of complexity and bugs has me too scared to even try. I've played with video files, but find VLC to be much snappier when searching thru large files so I've stuck with that.
IoT is huge, and I think you should keep working on that. Having something like MC between open source and proprietary IoT could be awesome. Please keep energy efficiency in mind too. In my vision, there would only be one low power device always listening that would wake up anything else that was needed. Maybe that's obvious, but I find that many/most don't really care about power use.
Also work on remotes. Wish jremote could do more, like toggle loudness and dsp settings. Is there a market for MC to serve as some kind of affordable remote control solution for the whole HT system? Like Control4 without having to pay hundreds for every little system change. This lack of PC and IR remote integration is a major impediment to others using my lovely system. They are Terrified!
Thanks for all your hard work, for asking and for listening.
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If I find that I like end to end MQA, once I buy an MQA DAC in <12 mo, then that will be another imperative. Tidal baby. Full SoX support is highly desired as well.
MQA support and Tidal integration will likely never happen. Topics on the forums go into the details about this (which can be found by searching the forums). Also I believe the developers have no plans to integrate full SoX into MC - they're only interested in the resampler library (discussions about this can probably be found by searching the forums too).
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I'm on mac now but will switch soon to windows where I have more options and better sound.
MC for Windows has a *few* more features than MC for Mac, but nothing that "just an audiophile" would care about. I would not think you would notice any kind of sonic improvement by switching to the Windows version of MC. MC for Mac should sound the same with the same DAC.
Full SoX support is highly desired as well.
MC already has SoX support. Unless you are lobbying (like a few other people) for adjustable parameters?
Brian.
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I also think that voice control apps, like House Band, are important.
Definitely integrate with voice control apps, and even better would be for JRiver to move digital assistant support in-house instead of relying on House Band.
Music playback is increasing moving to digital assistant hardware like Amazon Alexa and Apple's new HomePod. It's just so much easier to control sitting on the couch. It will be hard for Media Center to compete if it does not offer the same ease of control.