INTERACT FORUM
Windows => Television => Topic started by: JimH on March 21, 2023, 09:20:16 am
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Edit: A new WMC thread is here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135520.0.html
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A user from the UK pointed out that we might have more Windows Media Center users trying JRiver Media Center if we supported the WTV file format, which they frequently use.
An important advantage of the format is that it stores metadata.
It's supported by FFmpeg.
I asked Hendrik and Yaobing. Hendrik says we can read the files.
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We have been supporting these files for many years.
I downloaded a few sample videos online (I used to have a few but they were lost due to hard disk failures over the years). One of them have both audio and video, the others have video only, of various video resolution. They all play fine in MC30.
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Did you have to change any settings?
Link?
Found this: https://filesamples.com/formats/wtv
They play in MC. Windows file associations are now set to MC30.
In Tools > Options > File Types, check the box for wmv,wvx,dvr-ms,x-ms-wmv,wtv
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Found this: https://filesamples.com/formats/wtv
That is what I found.
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Did you have to change any settings?
No setting changes are needed. The playback method of file type is set to "Automatic". With this default setting, we choose DirectShow for playback. Switching the method to "JRiver Video Engine" makes MC play it using FFMPEG, without any issues.
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Could we add the format as one that we could record to?
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We could. We used to record that way but we abandoned it in favor of JTV because of the flexibility of our time-shifting engine. I need to add a few pieces to our current DirectShow graph to achieve that, but I am not sure if that will give us enough advantage over other recording methods.
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Hi Yaobing
I am the UK member mentioned by JimH above.
Whilst not doubting the benefits of jtv in a green field situation, accommodating users who might want to migrate from WMC is a different proposition.
Existing WMC users have hundreds if not thousands of wtv files - I have over 3000. It's is a format that works well from their perspective, is easily opened and edited in a very wide range of software and contains all that most people need e.g. program data etc.
I worked with the two Dans in VideoRedo using some MS contacts and that produced excellent wtv editing including metadata - so it's proven in that regard.
Also Windows Libraries can provide 'Recorded TV' links to other machines running WMC enabling all machines to record (16 tuners in my case) and for all machines to see all other recordings without special library routines.
This is a very powerful feature which existing WMC users will be loath to give up.
Hence the requested recording/playback/library functionality of wtv that i initiated the request for with Jim.
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We could. We used to record that way but we abandoned it in favor of JTV because of the flexibility of our time-shifting engine. I need to add a few pieces to our current DirectShow graph to achieve that, but I am not sure if that will give us enough advantage over other recording methods.
It would let our customers choose.
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Thanks Jim - that is exactly the point and would allow new users who are dipping their toes in, to do so easily.
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P.S. JR Media Center opening wtv file - audio but no video.
If you need wtv samples, I can provide them - is there an upload site that would be good as they tend to be a bit large.
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Switch to Display View?
You can put a file anywhere and post a link.
Do these work?
https://filesamples.com/formats/wtv
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I'm in theatre view and the screen is black but audio present.
Tried to attach wtv file it failed saying contact admin - perhaps because wtv isn't an allowed file type?
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The forum only allow certain types. More importantly the forum can't take large files, and most video files are too large.
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Jim - neither of the 1280 or 1920 format files play in either JRiver or WMC
They do play in VLC and VRD - I think because although they have a wtv wrapper they are not, in the case of WMC at least native codecs - as I get decoder error message in WMC.
Yaobing has said I cant post this type of file to the board - so how do I get them to you?
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If you have a file service account, such as Google Drive, or Microsoft OneDrive, you can upload there and share a link here. Or, better, you can private message me with the link.
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neither of the 1280 or 1920 format files play in either JRiver or WMC
The files downloaded from that site contain MPEG2 video. Did you allow MC to download required codecs?
Filter Graph Info:
Filter 'JRiver Subtitle Renderer'
CLSID: {F74E834C-9C98-43ED-89B1-19A9DF82E774}
Host:
Input Pin 'In'
Input Pin 'CC In'
Connected to pin '~CC Output' of filter 'LAV Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
Major type MEDIATYPE_DTVCCData Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {40FEFD7F-85DD-4335-A804-8A33B0BF7B81}, Format type FORMAT_None
Filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
CLSID: {FA10746C-9B63-4B6C-BC49-FC300EA5F256}
Host: c:\windows\system32\evr.dll
Input Pin 'EVR Input0'
Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'LAV Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
Input Pin 'EVR Input1'
Filter 'LAV Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
CLSID: {EE30215D-164F-4A92-A4EB-9D4C13390F9F}
Host: C:\Users\Shuomin Zhu\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 30\Plugins\lav64\LAVVideo.ax
Input Pin 'Input'
Connected to pin 'Output' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
Output Pin 'Output'
Connected to pin 'EVR Input0' of filter 'Enhanced Video Renderer'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12, Format type FORMAT_VideoInfo2
Output Pin '~CC Output'
Connected to pin 'CC In' of filter 'JRiver Subtitle Renderer'
Major type MEDIATYPE_DTVCCData Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {40FEFD7F-85DD-4335-A804-8A33B0BF7B81}, Format type FORMAT_None
Filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
CLSID: {A4207487-E7D8-406B-9882-B66370DE2492}
Host:
Input Pin 'Input'
Connected to pin 'Out' of filter 'PBDA DTFilter'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
Output Pin 'Output'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'LAV Video Decoder (auto-configured)'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
Filter 'PBDA DTFilter'
CLSID: {09144FD6-BB29-11DB-96F1-005056C00008}
Host: c:\windows\system32\cpfilters.dll
Input Pin 'In(Enc/Tag)'
Connected to pin 'DVR Out - 1' of filter 'Stream Buffer Source'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {46ADBD28-6FD0-4796-93B2-155C51DC048D}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {46ADBD28-6FD0-4796-93B2-155C51DC048D}
Output Pin 'Out'
Connected to pin 'Input' of filter 'JRiver Video Monitor'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type MEDIASUBTYPE_MPEG2_VIDEO, Format type FORMAT_MPEG2_VIDEO
Filter 'Stream Buffer Source'
CLSID: {C9F5FE02-F851-4EB5-99EE-AD602AF1E619}
Host: c:\windows\system32\sbe.dll
Output Pin 'DVR Out - 1'
Connected to pin 'In(Enc/Tag)' of filter 'PBDA DTFilter'
Major type MEDIATYPE_Video Sub type Unknown GUID Name: {46ADBD28-6FD0-4796-93B2-155C51DC048D}, Format type Unknown GUID Name: {46ADBD28-6FD0-4796-93B2-155C51DC048D}
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Hi Yaobing - thanks for reply.
It would easier for me if we could start from the other end of the telescope please
I have just taken a standard UK Terrestrial HD recorded wtv file with stereo audio.
It plays, sound and picture fine in WMC, but is audio and black screen in MC.
The attached pic shows the file format and you'll see we use H264 here not MPEG2.
So for me this has to play in MC.
In the UK we also get AAC audio 5.1 and from UK satellites AC3 2ch and 5.1
Whilst I can understand filters after a minute or two :-) - I need an OOB fix if you can please.
I still think it would be easier if I could upload files for you to make work rather than looking at MPEG2 content which broadcasters don't use in the UK
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When you first try to play video, MC will download some components needed. It's possible you've blocked access.
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In MC, run Tools > Options > File Types. Scroll down to Video section and click "Windows Media Video (wmv, wvx, dvr-ms, x-ms-wmv, wtv)". Check Playback Method in the lower portion of the window. Is it Automatic? If not, set it to Automatic.
During playback of the video, right-click in the video window and find "DirectShow filters" menu item. Mouse over it to open the submenu and choose "Copy graph info to clipboard". Paste the info here.
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Jim - neither of the 1280 or 1920 format files play in either JRiver or WMC
They both play here. Version of Windows and version of MC?
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1am here - will resume - so thanks
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File type setting seems correct.
Direct show filter for 1920x1080 wtv attached
Thanks for all your engagement.
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Thanks for providing the information.
The filter graph looks normal except that LAV video decode was not involved compared with what I get on my computer. Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder was used instead. That is a bit puzzling as I would expect Microsoft filter should work with their own format.
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Since WTV file format is Microsoft's own format, we have preferred Microsoft decoders over LAV decoders for these files. Maybe we have to rethink that strategy. On my computer, we tried to use the Microsoft decoder but it failed to connect, and thus we fall back to LAV and it works. On your computer on the other hand, the Microsoft decoder succeeded in making the connection, so we do not try LAV, yet the MS decoder produced black screen. Go figure!
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Since WTV file format is Microsoft's own format, we have preferred Microsoft decoders over LAV decoders for these files. Maybe we have to rethink that strategy. On my computer, we tried to use the Microsoft decoder but it failed to connect, and thus we fall back to LAV and it works. On your computer on the other hand, the Microsoft decoder succeeded in making the connection, so we do not try LAV, yet the MS decoder produced black screen. Go figure!
Maybe we should switch to using LAV/FFmpeg.
Can mcq do that for himself for now?
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I am building a test DLL that does not use Microsoft decoders for mcq to try. If it tests out good, we will switch.
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@mcq, which version of MC are you using? MC30? Is it 64 bit or 32 bit version?
Assuming you are using MC30 (please update to the latest available on MC30 board), here is a 64-bit DLL for you to try:
64-bit JRPlayer.dll for testing playback of WTV files (https://files.jriver.com/mediacenter/test/JRPlayer.zip)
Please let me know if you are using the 32-bit version.
To use this DLL, download and unzip. Copy JRPlayer.dll into MC installation folder (usually C:\Program Files\J River\Media Center 30\), replacing the existing file.
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Can mcq do that for himself for now?
No, it is a hard-coded behavior. He has to use the DLL I just built.
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Here is a 7-year old post on Microsoft Community site:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/black-screen-when-trying-to-play-videos/b4c45661-4078-4131-a13b-d1e91c3cb901
May or may not be relevant.
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Hi Yaobing
Thanks for revised dll - but no improvement
Your 1920 wtv gives black screen and no audio - don't think the clip has any audio?
My BBC wtv gives audio but black screen
Fresh DShow filters shown below.
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What version of MC are you using? 32 bit or 64 bit? What OS?
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Hi Jim
JRiver MC30 64bit
Windows 11 64 bit
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Crashes like this sometimes happen when a DLL and the main program are built with different code base. However, I installed 82, and used the new DLL and can't reproduce the crash.
@mcq, please check the downloaded DLL to make sure there is no corruption due to downloading and unzipping. The zipped file JRPlayer.zip should have a file size of 2,841,520 bytes. The unzipped DLL should have a size of 7,235,072 bytes.
If the numbers don't match please try download it again.
If all checks out, please turn on logging (Help > Logging, check "Output to a log file" checkbox). Then try playing a video to reproduce the crash. Email me the log files.
If nothing else helps, we will just have wait until the next build is released.
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Hi Yaobing
I revised my post earlier - no crash now - just no success
Can you take 50Mb files somewhere and I'll upload a few from here
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Maybe there is something we don't know about Windows 11, or something special about your video card. I am using Windows 10.
I don't have a server that can receive large files. If you are talking about a sample wtv file, maybe you can record a short piece (10 mb or less) and email it to me. yaobing at jriver dot com
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Ok will do - the video card is just the UHD 770 HDMI output from an Intel 136000 - nothing fancy.
I'll try an send you a few small representative wtv files.
Might take a day or so to do.
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The full version of MC? 30.0.82, for example.
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Thanks for the sample videos.
They play fine on my computer.
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I sent you a personal message. Please check it out.
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mcq said in a message:
Where I am –
Wtv now displays picture in JRiver – thanks to Yaobing’s revised exe
Wtv AAC 5.1 correctly plays all audio channels when using ‘JRiver Open GL video engine (experimental)’ instead of ‘Automatic’ – Yaobing suggestion.
Wtv native recording – awaited – how will I know when there is something to try?
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Good news, thanks to Yaobing, Matt, and Hendrick.
You can just follow this thread to find out when recording is working. I wouldn't expect it to take too long.
For now, you could continue recording with WMC on your server, and have MC import the recordings there, then turn on Media Network and let MC serve them to your other machines.
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Split Tuners and Topology (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135485.0.html)
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We could. We used to record that way but we abandoned it in favor of JTV because of the flexibility of our time-shifting engine. I need to add a few pieces to our current DirectShow graph to achieve that, but I am not sure if that will give us enough advantage over other recording methods.
So recording/time-shifting in WTV would be BDA only? Or would there be a DMS option?
Could this be an opportunity to get DMS Server-Client working properly, and even have bitstream audio in DMS ;)
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Not a question I'm informed enough to answer.
But any wtv recorded in JR needs to work fully in WMC (and vice versa) as folks will run both in the short term.
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You can currently record in WTV on one machine and play in MC from that machine.
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Yes indeed - so half way there which is good.
Trying to address tzr916 point about BDA and DMS.
As I said above I don't know - I don't even know which WMC uses.
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Trying to address tzr916 point about BDA and DMS.
As I said above I don't know - I don't even know which WMC uses.
This is a query for Yaobing + Hendrik
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Or Google.
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WTV recording will be bda tuners only as it is available only with DirectShow solutions. Client-server functionality for DMS tuners is on my list. I have not treated it as urgent item because DMS works on URLs and the tuners are accessible from all computers. I will get to it.
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A new build of MC30 which plays WTV files is here: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135519.msg938823.html#msg938823
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Plays - or plays and records?
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Just plays.
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But the current one plays - or is it the change you did for me to get the video to show?
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I believe that you have a special version.
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Ok - so it's that one on wider release - thanks
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You had build 85. The release now is 87. It has a few more fixes, one of which is related to WTV playback, on audio.
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Excellent - thanks for that Yaobing - will move to 87
Does that mean that I still need to make any change to filetype wtv from automatic to 'experimental' - or is that what you have fixed?
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I think automatic should work now. Try it.
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Will do tomorrow - if I remember right this was to endure that AAC 5.1 came out as such not stereo
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
With multiple audio tracks the new version seems to pick the default track from WTV files - Stereo, when I want AC3 - without an option to switch (or at least I haven’t found it yet)
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Agree with sheppy99 when tracks are as per attached JR picks MPEG stereo, WMC picks AC3 5.1
The sample i sent you Yaobing had the tracks in the opposite order - i.e. AC3 was Stream 1 with MPEG Stream 2
Will look later at AAC as I need a file with stereo and 5.1 on it - the AAC sample I sent you Yaobing was 5.1 on both tracks!
There's no knowing what the broadcaster will do in this regard.
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I will investigate this one.
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Agree with sheppy99 when tracks are as per attached JR picks MPEG stereo, WMC picks AC3 5.1
The sample i sent you Yaobing had the tracks in the opposite order - i.e. AC3 was Stream 1 with MPEG Stream 2
Will look later at AAC as I need a file with stereo and 5.1 on it - the AAC sample I sent you Yaobing was 5.1 on both tracks!
There's no knowing what the broadcaster will do in this regard.
I think I got this one. Just need you to confirm:
The sample recording of the football game has only one audio stream (AAC stereo).
The AC3 BBC Test card has two audio streams: AC3 5.1 English, and NAR [nar] (mp2) [visual impaired]
The AAC BBC Test card has two audio streams: AAC 5.1 English, and AAC mono English.
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I think we got it right. I tried playing those sample videos in VLC. The same audio streams are detected there too.
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As far as I can see both my clips have the true 5.1 as Stream 1
The AC3 clip - Stream 2 is marked MPEG - but I don't hear any audio when switched to it in VLC
The AAC clip - Stream 2 is marked as 5.1 - but again - I don't hear any audio when switched to in VLC
So for both clips JR is playing Stream 1
The question is if sheppy99's clip has Stereo on Track 1 and 5.1 on Track 2 - how does he select which track to hear - don't think JR has a 'track' choice like VLC - probably needs a sample from sheppy99 to resolve.
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As far as I can see both my clips have the true 5.1 as Stream 1
Correct.
The AC3 clip - Stream 2 is marked MPEG - but I don't hear any audio when switched to it in VLC
In my tests, VLC does play with sound, using stream 2, but since it is stereo only, it plays the L and R channels with sound, all other channels are silent. Now (after my fix today) MC does the same.
The AAC clip - Stream 2 is marked as 5.1 - but again - I don't hear any audio when switched to in VLC
With stream 2, it is total silence, in VLC and in MC (with my fix today). So the clip probably does not really have audio in the second stream, although it says it has a second stream.
So for both clips JR is playing Stream 1
Yes. In a few days when you get a new build with my fix today, you will be able to switch to other available streams.
The question is if sheppy99's clip has Stereo on Track 1 and 5.1 on Track 2 - how does he select which track to hear - don't think JR has a 'track' choice like VLC - probably needs a sample from sheppy99 to resolve.
I fixed that. Wait for a new build to come out in a few days.
Thanks for confirming that there are two advertised audio streams in your test file, which I also confirmed with VLC.
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Thanks Yaobing for all the work :)
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Audio Stream Selection in MC30.0.89 WTV:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135547.msg939073.html#msg939073
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Audio Stream Selection in MC30.0.89 WTV:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135547.msg939073.html#msg939073
Brilliant, will try that later. Thanks for the prompt response
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Hi sheppy99 - out of interest - when you open your file in VLC is the 5.1 channel the first or second audio stream?
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Audio Stream Selection in MC30.0.89 WTV:
https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135547.msg939073.html#msg939073
That seems to work, will give it a more thorough test this evening, thanks very much
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Hi sheppy99 - out of interest - when you open your file in VLC is the 5.1 channel the first or second audio stream?
A quick look at 5 of the latest WTV files suggests AC3 is usually the last of the sound streams
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What is your broadcast source - is it in UK, in EU?
I tried to find some regulation or standard on this, but no luck so far.
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I won't be continuing to persevere with JR if there isn't a commitment to provide wtv recording.
Mixed WMC/MC working would need to coexist for some time.
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31.0.8 is available now: https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php/topic,135878.msg941279.html#msg941279
It has some tag changes.