INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 21 for Windows => Topic started by: ssands on October 04, 2015, 11:45:23 pm
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Hi folks,
This one has had me perplexed for awhile.
I've been using MC for a few years now and its worked pretty well. In August, it started to hang on exit. At the time, I was running MC 20 on Win7-64. I can't think of any changes I made prior to the hanging starting.
The hanging has continued with an upgrade to MC 21 and Win 10.
I am currently running MC 21.0.6
Here's what I know:
- It only seems to happen if I play some audio or video. If I just start MC, browse my library and exit, it takes a few seconds, but exits.
- I *think* there are times I've played one tune and it exited properly, but I'm not longer sure. If I play a few tunes, it will always hang.
- I completely uninstalled my antivirus and re-booted. The problem remained.
- I had a previous thread under the MC20 section and it was suggested that there was a possible problem with the Realtek audio driver. I re-installed an older version but the problem continued. I am now on the latest Realtek driver.
- I tried setting the audio driver with Disable Event Style and with it off. MC still hung on exit.
- I left it on all night to see if it would eventually resolve itself, but it didn't.
- One thing that did make the problem going away was re-installing MC20 v 115. When I did that, it closed down without a problem. It seems that builds after that have caused a problem for me.
I've attached my log file.
All help is appreciated.
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Antivirus?
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Antivirus?
See third bullet in my initial post. I completely uninstalled my anti-virus and rebooted. Ran without any antivirus at all. MC still hanging on exit (after I have played audio).
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Where are the files stored?
Where is the library?
Try reading this thread from this point on:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100329.msg697451#msg697451
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Where are the files stored?
Where is the library?
Try reading this thread from this point on:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100329.msg697451#msg697451
Both the Library and MC itself are located on a local SSD.
Audio files are on a NAS.
This has not changed in 3 years, and has worked fine up until MC 20 V115 (as mentioned above).
I read the link, but not sure how that applies to me.
I have, in fact, let MC run all night after I tried to close it, but it did not close.
When I play audio, it starts promptly and plays without glitches or interruptions. Switching tracks works fine, as it should. Tags are written quickly and without error. So, I don't think there is an issue accessing the NAS, as everything else seems fine, with the exception of the hanging on exit.
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Bump.
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Set up a test library with only local files. If that works, then the NAS could be a problem. If it doesn't work, then it probably isn't the NAS.
Unplug anything you can. A bad USB drive, for example, could cause a problem.
Turn off auto import.
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Set up a test library with only local files. If that works, then the NAS could be a problem. If it doesn't work, then it probably isn't the NAS.
Unplug anything you can. A bad USB drive, for example, could cause a problem.
Turn off auto import.
Using the NAS as source for audio, I turned off Auto-Import. It still hung on Exit.
However, I then set up a test lib that pointed to audio on my local SSD. Auto-Import was on. I played several tunes and then exited.
MC closed right away!
So, do you (or anyone else) have any ideas as to what is happening in MC on shutdown that it is hanging when my audio files are on a NAS?
Note that this only started happening after MC20 v115. I can downgrade back to that version and MC will close correctly.
Hopefully, getting closer to a solution here....
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Is the NAS firmware up to date?
If tagging changes are being written to video files, it's possible that it is just still busy.
A network device in between could also be a problem.
I know you said you tested with antivirus uninstalled. It's possible some other "security" program could do this. And it might happen with one build but not with another one.
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Well, this is certainly odd behavior:
I tried the experiment above of creating a new library pointing to local audio files, and MC worked as it should.
I then switched back to my regular setup with the library on my local SSD and the audio files on the NAS.
And.....now it works!
I've tested it a few times (varying cuts from different albums vs. only playing one album) and so far it operates correctly.
So, something about creating that test library seemed to "fix" things (I hope). I'll keep running a few experiments but so far so good.
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Reviving this thread because I'm still having MC hang on close. I've been trying many, many things to resolve and so far, I cannot.
I've attempted to eliminate all the variables I can and it seems to come down to connection to the NAS (Netgear ReadyNAS).
- Complete uninstall of anti-virus does not make a difference.
- Complete re-install of MC did not make a difference.
- Wired connection (not wireless) does not make a difference.
- Small, local test with audio files on local drive does NOT exhibit the hang problem.
- If I rollback MC to V20.115 then I do NOT have the hanging problem ( <== this seems important).
- Problem occurs on Win 7 and Win 10 (both 64-bit)
- Both audio and video play fine, even Hi-res
I'm really stuck. Can anyone offer some help?
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Go to "Services & Plugins > Reporter", is there anything "Processing" or "Running in the background"?
If you go to Windows Task Manager after closing MC, what is shown as running (I.e. Media Center 21.exe) and how much CPU/memory is being used? How are you closing MC when it hangs (with "End Task" in Windows Task Manager)?
I'm having similar shutdown issue (my hang is when I want to close the program entirely such as to do a version upgrade). However no earlier version of MC fixes it.
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I've checked Reporter a few times and it doesn't show any background tasks (but I'll look again this evening).
I only have the hang problem after I've played a bit of audio. If I open MC, don't play audio, and then exit, it shuts down without a problem. I don't know if I kept it open without using it if the hang would occur or not.
When I exit MC, it just sits there. Eventually the cursor turns into the spinning circle. The system works fine otherwise, it's just MC. Task Manager reports MC as Unresponsive. If I click in MC again, Windows asks if I want to wait or close. I've learned waiting doesn't help, so I force a close, Windows looks for solutions to the issue and kills MC.
Checking Task Manager after the crash, shows a clean exit in that I don't see any other MC processes running.
HOWEVER(!), I may have noticed an important bit here. I will have to validate tonight. But, when I normally close MC, I use the Windows "X" in the upper right of the MC window. I always do this. And it has been hanging since MC 20.115. However, I think that if I use the File menu, Exit menu item, MC closes OK!
I will validate tonight, but if that is the case, then it sounds like the close event from the window is not calling the same routine or handler that File | Exit is.
I'll post tonight with results. I really hope this solves it.
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If you go to Windows Task Manager after closing MC, what is shown as running (I.e. Media Center 21.exe) and how much CPU/memory is being used?
I forgot to answer this question. Task Manager shows MC as using 0 CPU during the hang. I don't recall the memory usage. I can check tonight.
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Well, it doesn't matter how I try to close it...it hangs.
This is super-frustrating as I've tried all the suggestions etc.
I've attached a screenshot of my Task Manager showing MC when it hangs.
Can anyone offer some assistance???
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Try the Windows 10 equivalent of the Windows 7 Resource Monitor "Analyse Wait Chain" (http://www.thewindowsclub.com/analyze-wait-chain-traversal) function. It may show you exactly what MC is waiting for.
If that doesn't show anything, maybe you could use the Microsoft Windows Sysinternals Process Explorer (https://technet.microsoft.com/en-au/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx) to determine what is going on. It is a bit complex, but you may be able to at least see what State it is in. i.e. Is it waiting for something, or locked up. See the attached image for an example showing MC is waiting for User Input. Process Explorer can be use on both the MC Service and Application.
See how you go with those.
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Thanks ROderickGI,
I tried ProcessExplorer (results below).
It seems if I don't play audio very long, it closes fine. If I play for a while it hangs.
I've attached two screenshots from Process Explorer. I don't know what is meant by Wait:UserRequest but that is where it seems to be hung. If you have any ideas what this could mean, or where else I should look, I'd really appreciate it.
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I'm afraid I am not expert on interpreting the output of Process Explorer.
However, I would go through all those threads that MC has open and see if any of them say "Not Repsonding" or similar. The second image where it says Wait:Delay Execution could be an issue, but that doesn't sound serious enough. All those thread there belong to MC, so check them all. If you find something that looks like a problem, take an image as the MC developers may be able to work out what the issue is.
Did you try the "Analyse Wait Chain" function? It may provide a simpler view that gives a better hint.
Otherwise you will have to start logging in MC and see if you can capture an error or problem. If you do, it should be in the "Previous Log" in the zip file created when you reopen MC and save the log files.
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Thanks I've posted logs before but no one checks them.
I can run down a few more things, but I'd really appreciate hearing from the MC team on what data to gather and what it means.
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I've attached a shot of the "Analyze Wait Chain".
I have no idea what Network I/O it is waiting to finish.
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Try to eliminate the NAS from the picture by setting up a test library that doesn't use it.
Did you try to update the firmware for the NAS? What is it? They definitely have had problems in the past.
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I am using a ReadyNAS Ultra 2. It is running the latest firmware and has been all along. (The last firmware update was a year ago). I also did a complete reboot of it to see if that helped, but there was no change in behavior.
I will again run a longer test with a test library with all media stored locally. That has worked well before, but I think I'll stress test it just to be sure.
The weird thing is that when I went back to V20. 115 (or maybe it the version just prior to that - I'll have to look at old posts), I didn't have the problem with the same NAS and firmware.
So, I guess I could do two more tests:
All Audio local
Go back to V20.115 playing audio from the NAS.
Am I able to re-download older version of V20 to run the test?
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You can search for "Media Center 20.0.115" here or on the Internet.
Even if an old version worked, that doesn't rule out the NAS since the newer versions might do something different that triggers a bug on the NAS. Faster access, for example.
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Is it possible that you have very long paths to some files?
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100972.0
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Caveat: I'm not a programmer, or an expert, but I've made some educated guesses. Also I can't spend forever trying to understand the problem.
Okay, it isn't your NAS that is your problem, it is your Sonos devices. You seem to have six separate Sonos devices. When MC tries to shutdown, I believe that it is trying to tell the Sonos devices that it is shutting down, or something like that. MC doesn't seem to be getting a response. I took a look at the "Previous Log.txt" log you posted, and I can see the shutdown start with the command: "0016907: 10656: General: CMCToolsCore::StopTools: Start". The shutdown does a few things for a very short time, and then you start to get a whole lot of log records similar to:
0019391: 8996: Sharing Plugins: CHTTPListenerWorker::HandleConnection: Start
0019391: 8996: Sharing Plugins: CHTTPListenerWorker::HandleRequest: UDP: 192.168.1.1: NOTIFY: http://239.255.255.250:1900*
0019391: 8996: Sharing Plugins: CSSDPWorker::ProcessNotify: ssdp:alive: uuid:b17b91a3-e5bb-46da-a2f4-dcd0e9e2da03::upnp:rootdevice
0019391: 8996: Sharing Plugins: CHTTPListenerWorker::HandleConnection: Finish (0 ms)
That is MC trying to talk to UPnP/DLNA devices on IP Address 239.255.255.250, which is a Unicast/Multicast address for talking to such devices, according to this:
HOST: 239.255.255.250:1900. MAN: ssdp:discover. MX: 10. ST: ssdp:all. All other UPnP devices or programs are required to respond to this message by sending a similar message back to the device, using a UDP unicast, announcing which UPnP profiles the device or program implements.
It could be that your Sonos devices are misconfigured, or that a firewall is interfering with the communication. Has anything changed on your LAN that may have caused this problem?
I did notice that you let MC try to close for about 50 seconds and then killed it, and wondered if it would have eventually closed correctly if left alone, but then I remembered you had said;
I have, in fact, let MC run all night after I tried to close it, but it did not close.
So, it isn't going to close. If you tried that again with logging turned on, you would probably see a whole lot more of the Sharing Plugins/SSDP messages.
So, what to do?
1. Turn off all your Sonos equipment, reboot your MC PC, play some music to some other zone, since the Sonos won't be available, and then try to close MC.
Did that work? It should, but it still may not, as MC may try to find the Sonos devices it knows about. But if that does work consistently, then you know the problem is to do with your Sonos devices. If it doesn't work, run a log again and look for the above log records. In particular, see if MC is sending any messages to the IP Address 239.255.255.250, as that would indicate it is still trying to talk to UPnP/DLNA devices.
2. The above may highlight the cause of the issue, but how to fix it? Trying turning off all Firewalls on all devices in your LAN, if you can.
That shouldn't be hard on the MC PC, but I don't know about the Sonos devices. Also, you should make sure that your router trusts all local traffic. You may be able to check logs in your router to see if it is blocking traffic to the address 239.255.255.250, as many routers do block traffic to broadcast addresses by default. There are a bunch of threads on Sonos devices, and I see you have contributed to some. Maybe AndrewFG's tool can help isolate the problem, or maybe Andrew himself will have some ideas.
If turning off the firewalls fixes the problem, then I would guess that you need to change some firewall rules.
3. Another thought. Do you stop all playback before closing MC?
It could be that because MC is playing something to the Sonos devices, it is trying to tell the devices to stop, or something. Just confirm if a shutdown works with nothing playing. There was a change in MC21.0.10 (9/24/2015), "19: Fixed: DLNA: MC's renderer was posting the wrong STOP command which was causing a long delay eventing the STOP when the Audio setting for STOP was FADEOUT" but it doesn't look like it should have broken your previously working system. But maybe something else got changed at the same time.
Another caveat: If the log you posted above was created soon after starting MC, all the above could be completely wrong. ;D
The correct technique for collecting a log with your problem would be to;
a. Start MC and leave it running for at least a few minutes so that all start-up processes are complete.
b. Play a little music on MC, via the Sonos devices, then stop playback.
c. Turn on logging, clear the log.
d. Attempt to close MC. Leave it trying to close for five minutes, then kill it if it hasn't closed.
e. Restart MC and immediately save the log, and post it back here.
See how you go with the above.
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Thanks for the replies. I especially appreciate the detailed response, Roderick.
Here's what I have done so far:
Found a couple of dozen fully qualified path names that were long. Those have now been shortened quite a bit. I used MC to change the directories. Result: Still hangs.
Turned off firewall on the MC computer: Still hangs.
Tomorrow: will turn off all the Sonos devices and see what happens. Will also check the router firewall and check it's logs. (No changes on the router for a long time, but I could be forgetting something).
Note: All the errors I have reported have occurred with playback only to the the MC computer and not the SONOS devices at all, but it seems that MC will still want to get a response from all the devices on the LAN.
I don't recall when the last SONOS update was, but maybe that had an impact.
Again, I greatly appreciate the assistance.
I'll report back.
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Is it the Microsoft firewall that you turned off?
Occasionally people have found that they were running another firewall as well. Anything "security" related could be involved.
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Turned off Kaspersky and Microsoft. Earlier had completely uninstalled Kaspersky too.
Also for got to mention that when I exit MC, I stop playback first ( that is I'm not selecting Exit while music is playing back.
As far as I can tell, Router (Asus) firewall is for WAN - LAN and not for internal LAN traffic, but will check that further.
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You should not have two firewalls running. Using Microsoft is probably more reliable.
Kaspersky has been the source of problems like this in the past. Turning it off is not a good test. I know you uninstalled it.
I haven't completely ruled out the possibility of an MC problem, but it is extremely unlikely, or the forum would be littered with this kind of thread.
I also note that an earlier version works. That's common when an AV program is the cause. They look for specific signatures or behaviors of programs, and these may be present in a single version but not in others.
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Thanks. I'm only running one AV, but MS automatically turns on Windows Defender when you turn off Kaspersky, so I had to turn off Defender also. (WIndows 10 behavior).
Sonos test later today.
I have wondered if there may have been a change to an underlying framework that JRiver uses. Total assumption on my part but it crossed my mind.
I agree that one would expect more reported problems if it was a bug, but I am also seeing several "hanging" threads, but under different circumstances.
I may also try installing MC on a different computer here at home...that would at least eliminate my computer as the source of the trouble.
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I disconnected (pulled the power) from all my Sonos components. Started MC, no Sonos components visible.
Played music for > 20 minutes on the MC computer (Player). Stopped playback. Clicked File | Exit.
MC hung.
I've attached the latest logs from that run, just in case.
I'll try installing MC on my wife's computer and see what happens.
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MC hung.
The hang was in shutting down the auto-import process.
I'll add a hard-kill to the thread after a few seconds for the next build. It might solve the issue, but I'm not certain.
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The hang was in shutting down the auto-import process.
I'll add a hard-kill to the thread after a few seconds for the next build. It might solve the issue, but I'm not certain.
Thanks.
I've occasionally had issues where auto-import didn't work and I would need to restart MC to see new audio, but it always seemed to pick up new media on a restart.
If there is any additional data I can provide (from the NAS or perhaps my machine?), I'm happy to send it over.
Thanks again.
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Can you try something please?
Start MC, let it sit for a few seconds and close it, without playing anything.
Is it closing properly now?
If it is, the issue might be related to something some of us are experiencing with the Linux version, too (introduced in 21.0.16).
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If I open MC, do nothing, and close it shortly thereafter, it closes just fine.
However, the hangs return once I play music for a bit.
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The hang was in shutting down the auto-import process.
I'll add a hard-kill to the thread after a few seconds for the next build. It might solve the issue, but I'm not certain.
Tried a test. Started MC, turned off Auto-Import, played audio for > 20 minutes. Selected File | Exit.
MC hung.
Not sure if this was a valid test or not. I've attached the logs.
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I missed Matt's reply.
I don't know if the Linux version could have the auto import issue as well.
So, if you disable auto import, close MC, open it, play something and then close it again, it hangs? That would suggest auto import is unrelated to your issue.
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I missed Matt's reply.
I don't know if the Linux version could have the auto import issue as well.
So, if you disable auto import, close MC, open it, play something and then close it again, it hangs? That would suggest auto import is unrelated to your issue.
That is what I'm thinking. Waiting for the install on my wife's computer to finish making its library to see what happens on her machine.
However when I disabled auto-import I did NOT shutdown and restart MC. Another test.
Will report back.
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Update:
Set auto-import OFF, shut down and restarted MC. Played to computer (Player) for a few hours.
Exit: NO Problem.
Wife's computer: Fresh install. Running audio from the same NAS as I was. (She's on Win 7). Auto-import ON. Played several hours.
Exit: NO Problem.
Next Test: Will set auto-import back ON on my machine. Stop and restart MC. And see what happens.
Maybe my machine sucks.
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Update:
Set MC back to auto-import. Stopped and restarted MC. Played to my computer (Player) for > 20 minutes.
Stop playback. Select File | Exit.
MC Hangs.
So, that would seem to confirm Matt's diagnosis that auto-import is hanging on my machine.
Attached logs just in case that provides useful info.
So, at this point, it seems that something about my machine is causing the hang. See above: my wife's computer, using the same NAS, does not hang on exit, even with auto-import on.
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The hang was in shutting down the auto-import process.
Great that someone who understands the logs had a look! 8)
Matt, can you share exactly which line in the log tells you this, or is it just that the Listener Worker keeps trying to do stuff? I try to read the logs, but they aren't easy!
Also, can you narrow it down to something more specific, like Auto-Import is unable to complete a write to a file, or something like that?
As the hang presents as an I/O problem, I am wondering if updated network drivers may help.
While a hard kill of the Auto-Import process may work, it isn't really ideal, and could effect other users, since the process won't shut down nice and cleanly.
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As the hang presents as an I/O problem, I am wondering if updated network drivers may help.
I am running the latest network drivers. I also tried going back to older versions. Did not impact the hang.
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I am running the latest network drivers. I also tried going back to older versions. Did not impact the hang.
Also, wanted to note that the hang did not occur prior to V20.115.
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Also, wanted to note that the hang did not occur prior to V20.115.
An antivirus program could do exactly that.
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An antivirus program could do exactly that.
True, but recall that I completely removed the anti-virus while trying to determine possible causes of this problem.
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I can't remember or see quickly if you told us which antivirus, firewall, or other security software you use.
I ask because I know you uninstalled your antivirus software, but if it is third party software, when you do that Windows will activate its own version, and hence the problem still exists, just with different antivirus software.
For example, if I uninstall my Norton 360 software, both Windows Defender and Windows Firewall are re-activated. Also, I know with Windows 10 a user cannot uninstall Windows Defender, but can only turn it off for a period.
So, when you uninstalled your antivirus software, did you make sure that no other security software was activated by Windows?
PS: There has obviously been a change in the MC code since MC20.0.115 that antivirus software thinks is a virus. There have been a few reports of people struggling to tame their antivirus since then. That isn't really the fault of MC, since antivirus software mostly just looks for code patterns. Even the heuristics that some antivirus software uses could decide some MC activity is suspicious and block it. I always have my security software notify me of any action it takes, rather than letting it do it silently, so I can see what it is doing as it happens.
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Good points. I ensured that Windows defender was turned off when I uninstalled Kaspersky. Additionally, I do have Kaspersky inform me of all actions and I checked logs. I'm pretty sure my AV was not causing the problem.
I think it is some weird bug that only surfaces in certain weird circumstances.
I wonder if there was a code change in a framework that JRiver might use ( pure connecture).
When I ran MC on my wife's computer (same NAS, Kaspersky, Win7) it did not have the problem.
Could be something bad on my computer but I'm seeing enough hang issues that it makes me wonder.
With auto-import turned off, MC close is quite fast.
I just wish I could run with it on.
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It was time to import some audio. I selected "Run Auto Import Now" and the audio imported without a problem.
I started to listen to some tunes and noted that the Analyzing audio was not progressing.
Even after I stopped listening, Analyze audio was not changing.
Finally, selected File | Exit and the dialog in the attached image appeared.
First I selected No, but, again, no progress on Analyzing Audio.
Waited a while, and this time I responded Yes to the dialog.
MC hung.
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Well, I went retro and went back to V20.0.115.
The whole auto-import thing works fine.
I played audio and it exited perfectly and quickly.
I really think it has to be a change in the MC code/framework, all other variables seem to have been eliminated.
Obviously, it doesn't affect all (most?) computers, but it definitely has changed behavior that worked before and now doesn't.
Also, I am seeing a lot of other hanging/crash threads on the forum.
Any thoughts/inputs/updates from the MC crew are much appreciated.
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When I ran MC on my wife's computer (same NAS, Kaspersky, Win7) it did not have the problem.
And you still think this is an MC problem?
It is almost certain to be an antivirus or security problem.
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And you still think this is an MC problem?
It is almost certain to be an antivirus or security problem.
Except AV was completely uninstalled and Windows Defender was turned off. Firewall was turned off.
I think it has to do with a code change and a particular set of HW/SW on the computer. I've swapped out drivers to no effect.
The only change is the version of MC.
I've tried to eliminate every other variable. Even ran a HW check on my computer to see if there was a problem with any components.
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You think it was uninstalled but it may not have been. You may need to install Windows again or live with the problem.
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Well if Matt implements a hard kill to the thread if it keeps running, as he suggested here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100628.msg700645#msg700645), then the problem may be solved in MC21.0.19 or MC21.0.20, or there abouts.
So not all hope is lost.
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I think that's risky.
And a kludge. An ugly solution for someone else's problem.
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I think that's risky.
And a kludge. An ugly solution for someone else's problem.
Well actually I agree, and said so back here (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=100628.msg700699#msg700699).
It is a pity there is no way, at least that I know of, to really identify what the issue is. I very rarely get any crashes with MC, but I did get one a couple of days ago, and it was related to Auto-Import. I was able to identify that MC was waiting for four internal threads, but as I use a normal (non-administrator) user on my HTPC, and didn't have Process Explorer available on it, I was unable to dig any further into what part of MC was causing the problem.
If anyone knows of better tools than those I have already mentioned, it would be great to hear about them. I suspect going any further than Task Manager, Resource Monitor, and Process Explorer, would get very technical.
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Jim,
Is there anything I could do that would convince you that it might be a code issue and not a individual PC issue?
I've tried everything you have suggested (and more). Now, you are saying that I would need to reinstall Windows. But if I did that, with all the other AV and security-related caveats in place, and the problem remains, would you still dismiss this issue?
I've seriously considered that the problem is the PC and not MC and spent many hours trying to pinpoint the cause of the issue. (Because if it's my PC, I will get that addressed).
I agree that a fix that addresses a symptom and not the root cause can be risky (and I really do appreciate Matt for considering it, believe me).
So, I'm wondering what can be done to locate the root cause?
Matt has identified that the Auto-Import process is causing the hanging. If I keep everything the same and only change the MC version, it hangs. As I mentioned, I have done all the security/AV tests/uninstalls/etc. The core symptoms remain unchanged.
If you have diagnostics that I can run on this machine I will.
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Set up a test library with only local files. If that works, then the NAS could be a problem. If it doesn't work, then it probably isn't the NAS.
Unplug anything you can. A bad USB drive, for example, could cause a problem.
Turn off auto import.
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Set up a test library with only local files. If that works, then the NAS could be a problem. If it doesn't work, then it probably isn't the NAS.
Unplug anything you can. A bad USB drive, for example, could cause a problem.
Turn off auto import.
Thanks. The issue was fixed in a subsequent dot release of the code. I recall some mention in release notes regarding it. No problems after that.