INTERACT FORUM
Windows => Television => Topic started by: DaveR on March 27, 2017, 01:56:01 am
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With the increasing popularity of Computers or NAS servers like JRiver Media Center being used to record digital free to air TV shows IceTV has decided to provide a cheaper Australian XMLTV EPG subscription option. It is ideal for customers who wish to use the IceTV Australian XMLTV EPG feed but are not able to use IceTV’s Full Service with Smart Recording. It covers all Australian capital and regional FTA transmissions with the exception of the racing channel and shopping channels.
For $3.99 per month (less than $1 a week) you get IceTV's professionally hand curated Australian XMLTV EPG feed that is updated throughout each day right up to primetime to ensure your recordings are not missed due to late programming changes. Importantly, accurate recording is optimised with repeat tags, series and episode numbers where available, and consistent show titles.
You will also receive a bi-weekly email of recommended TV shows and movies for the week or weekend including interesting shows coming soon but with an unknown airdate. The recommended and coming soon shows are also a feature in our free IceTV Guide apps for iOS and Android.
- IceTV is an accurate, curated guide.
- IceTV is optimised for recording TV.
- IceTV is updated throughout the day.
- IceTV's XMLTV EPG feed covers all regions in Australia.
- We advise a final refresh just before prime time.
To subscribe at the XMLTV only price go here:
https://store.icetv.com.au/xmltv
If anyone has any questions you can contact me at www.icetv.com.au/contact_us
Dave at IceTV
------------- How to Setup in MC (Added by JMONE) -------------
- Once you have subscribed go to https://www.icetv.com.au/xmltv and login.
- Copy the link under "The link to use in your XMLTV enabled recorder is:"
- and in MC's Tools --> Options --> Television --> Load Program Guide --> Add --> XMLTV paste this link under "Load XMLTV results from this file" (and make sure "Run an executable to retrieve XMLTV data" is unchecked.
You may also want to increase the settings to "Automatically load the program guide everyday in the background" to minimum refresh time so you have the most up to date EPG.
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Hi Dave, I like your new pricing and will subscribe to check it out. What frequency do you recommend the EPG be pulled? In MC we can specify a max of 24 or a min of 2 hours at present.
Thanks
Nathan
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Hi Jmone,
Our PVR API is set to allow Full Service users to login for incremental updates every 15 minutes. I'm unsure if you can do incremental via XMLTV but we'd be quite happy with 30 min and we'd recommend timing the late afternoon one to be between 5:30pm and 6:00pm to catch the late prime time changes.
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Hi Colin,
MC at present supports XMLTV, OTA EPG, mc2xml and PercData. If you are interested in looking at tighter integration between MC and IceTV EPG (eg add a feature in MC so it can use the API for incremental updates etc instead of just periodically downloading and importing the XMLTV Data), then you may want to reach out to:
JimH (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=profile;u=3) : Jim Hillegass (Founder and CEO)
Yaobing (http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?action=profile;u=605) : MC's TV Expert
Having a quick look at the IceTV EPG data vs OTA EPG:
- Season / Episode Data exists (as does meta data incl Title, Desc, Lang, Country, Apsect, Previously-Shown, Sub Title Lang, Actor, Credits, Rating)
- Descriptions looks good
- JSON Data looks richer, and provide links to the Channel Logos! (more Meta Data like Quality, Colour, Categories)
- Much Quicker than doing an OTA Scan
- Ability to potentially do regular updates! (I like this one a lot)
- Has a 6day EPG for the Major Channels (I'm in Sydney), but I don't see anything for some of the minors like the Shopping Channels (TVSN, SpreeTV, Extra), Racing, and the DVB-T Radio Channels (ABC Jazz, Double J, SBS1 2 3) all of which broadcast an OTA EPG
Thanks
Nathan
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Dave / Colin
I currently use (free) EPG Collector to grab FTA data and its in-built feature to update TV Series data with thetvdb and movie data with tmdb. These databases are de facto standards across a wide range of other PVR applications.
One hassle with FTA data is that it sometimes doesn't align with those database sources that MC is configured to line up with. For example, Rob Sitch's - Utopia. This show is in thetvdb as "Utopia (2014)". Does the hand curating of IceTV include that level of detail?
In the meantime, I'll give your website a squiz.
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Hi Jmone,
Our PVR API is set to allow Full Service users to login for incremental updates every 15 minutes. I'm unsure if you can do incremental via XMLTV but we'd be quite happy with 30 min and we'd recommend timing the late afternoon one to be between 5:30pm and 6:00pm to catch the late prime time changes.
I've taken up the trial to give it a crack.
MC's default minimum update time is every 2 hours. So, I've set up on that basis with a start time frame of 17:45.
See how it goes.
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Hi Nathan,
You are right in that we don't do racing, shopping or radio channels. The reason is that we are totally focussed on recording/time shifting TV viewing, hence our hand-curation to try to maximise accuracy so recordings are not missed. Those channels don't suit that aim (well maybe the odd shopping one?!), or not enough to be commercially viable for us to put on more staff to support them. We get an occasional request but it's never been a problem for our customers. BTW - our EPG is 7 days?
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Hi Nathan,
We do have both a JSON and XML based API with full Smart Recording and Remote Scheduling capability to use with our apps and website. This is using our standard $7.99/month subscription.
For this offer we are doing a specific XMLTV based feed, while this new pricing is based around our existing XMLTV feed, the older feed has not been updated in a while and doesn't include images and a lot of additional metadata. We are currently testing a new XMLTV based feed that was extended in conjunction with Plex to give much better metadata options, along with poster based images and all the current metadata of our JSON/XML api it also has:
TVDB id's at the series and episode level
IMDB id's where possible
TMDB id's (currently still a work in progress)
Unique guid's for each show entry based on IceTV's internal ID's
I am working on a setup page for a generic XMLTV feed for any project to use and will post back once this is available as it will definitely give better information.
An example of the feed (for the Wollongong area) is attached to check it out.
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I have had the new XMLTV based login page created, it is now available at https://www.icetv.com.au/xmltv (https://www.icetv.com.au/xmltv)
This is a much richer feed than our previous one and definitely worth checking out.
Please let us know if you find any issues and we can address them.
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Interesting.
I'm also using EPG Collector and its metadata updates, which is working very well. I can't really afford the time to change and debug at the moment. But I shall watch this thread with interest.
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Thanks for the pure XML feed guys - I've just re-signed.
TBH my major concern with IceTV was never the quality of data (it was always great) or even the price that much. My main concern is the fact the Oz networks are notorious for running programs over time. The OTA guide seems to account for this (program duration is 1hr 3mins, for instance) whereas Ice didn't account for this (previously, anyway - we'll see now).
If we can get things like artwork etc. and JR can find a way to integrate this, it would be great.
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Hi Justin,
One problem we can't overcome is the tricks the commercial networks play by running shows late to prevent swapping channels to a competitor before the end. We can only advise that 20 minutes is added onto the end of all recordings as a default setting within the settings section of our customers PVRs, Media Centres etc.. It's bodge but there is no way we can get those accurate start-end times. As long as one has at least 3 tuners, each ideally able to record the multiplexed channels of each network, then the late start and end times are rarely a problem for our users.
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A warm welcome to the IceTV team. Thanks for your work.
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The direct XMLTV link is great - refresh just happens in MC without needing WebGet! I too am updating every 2 hours.
FYI - I just did a test recording of a Simpsons Eps (S10E19), and MC correctly imported it and copied the following Meta Data:
- Actors ("Julie Kavner, Hank Azaria, Nancy Catwright, Dan Castellaneta, Yeardley Smith, Harry Shearer")
- Artist ("11 Eleven" eg the Channel it was recorded from)
- Artist-Album ("11 Eleven-" eg the Channel it was recorded from with a "-" after it)
- Description ("When Homer's home-made BBQ disaster is mistaken for a piece of modern art he becomes an overnight Pop Art sensation. Is middle-of-the-road Springfield ready for Homer's next masterpiece, a huge conceptual water installation? Julie Kavner, Hank Azaria, Nancy Cartwright")
- Episode ("19")
- Genre ("Comedy")
- Keywords ("Cartoon, Comedy, Animation, SDTV")
- Name ("Mom and Pop Art")
- Season ("10")
- Series ("The Simpsons")
- Series ID ("/59186" - I have no idea what the values represents)
Doing a "Get Movie & TV Info" on this then pulled the meta Data / Coverart from TVDB 71663 (http://thetvdb.com/?tab=series&id=71663) correctly.
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I'm sure Yaobing will have a look when time permits but in looking at the example XMLTV posted by belgarion we don't seem to be picking up or using a few fields at present such as:
- Rating (eg PG/G/R/ etc)
- Original Air Date
- TVDB / IMDB references (though "Get Movie & TV Info" finds it fine from the other MetaData)
- Lang / Country / Subtitle
- Path to Ch Icons
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I've added a quick "How to Setup in MC" in the OP
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Hi Nathan,
You are right in that we don't do racing, shopping or radio channels. The reason is that we are totally focussed on recording/time shifting TV viewing, hence our hand-curation to try to maximise accuracy so recordings are not missed. Those channels don't suit that aim (well maybe the odd shopping one?!), or not enough to be commercially viable for us to put on more staff to support them. We get an occasional request but it's never been a problem for our customers.
How am I going to know when to tune in a buy that one off special for the latest fitness gadget! In all seriousness, I'd not expect these channels to be curated at all, but it would be kind of nice for the sake of completeness (if it did not cost a cent) to have the OTA EPG just included in your XMLTV. The other option would be for MC to allow the importation for selected EPGs for different channels but I imagine this would be a very very low priority!
BTW - our EPG is 7 days?
This could be another one for Yaobing (again low priority) as I have a an EPG refresh from 8:07pm Thurs 30 Mar and the EPG data in MC runs out on Midday Wed 5 April. It really does not matter as with a regular refresh this is plenty of lead time.
EDIT: Colin, are you also the ones providing the EPG data and Logos to the HDHomeRun app?
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So my summary is:
- Great EPG option for Oz Users with a direct XMLTV Link
- Pretty good price for A$1 per week for those looking at a curated option over the free OTA EPG
Potential areas for improvement:
MC: Ability to get 15min updates via the API / Ability to increase the EPG pull frequency to 30mins (down from 2hours)
MC: Ability to get the Channel Logos automatically
MC: Use the additional supplied Metadata / or auto run "Get Movie & TV Info" on TV Records to fill in additional Meta Data
IceTV: Add missing EPG data for the minor channels
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Just to clarify this one;
MC: Ability to get 15min updates via the API / Ability to increase the EPG pull frequency to 30mins (down from 2hours)
My understanding is that the 15min updates are only available to a full service ($7.99) customer via the API, and not the XMLTV feed. Correct?
Even so, I assume 15min updates to the EPG data aren't generated 24 hours a day, but only during "working hours". Hence the recommendation to do an update just prior to peek time. Correct?
MC: Use the additional supplied Metadata / or auto run "Get Movie & TV Info" on TV Records to fill in additional Meta Data
Again my understanding is that the additional metadata is only available via the API (JSON I assume), which is only available for full service customers. One of the most important data elements to TV is the Repeat Flag (or Previously Shown), and that is missing from the Simpsons example above, which is definitely a repeat. I guess that could be a MC XMLTV mapping issue, if the flag is named differently in the IceTV feed.
- Series ID ("/59186" - I have no idea what the values represents)
My understanding is that that Series ID is a completely independent, internal ID created by IceTV for a series. Not much practical use for us unless MC has functionality added to use this new unique ID. But that doesn't really matter, as long as the TheTVDB ID is also included in the feed, as that is the unique ID that MC uses. Of course, there will be exceptions, particularly with Australian TV programs that often don't have a TheTVDB ID, and need to be uniquely identified for Series/Season/Episode identification. Maybe something to think about in the future.
I would also note that MC could run two EPG collections; One for the minor channels from the OTA EPG, perhaps once a day, and one from IceTV for the majors. That would cover the issue of missing data for the minors.
EDIT: Ah, I forgot that the frequency setting is global, and not defined by EPG collection. I see you are covering that in another thread. Cool. Getting there!
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The ICE TV guys would need to answer these Q, but FYI - having a looks at the XMLFeed, here is an example of what meta data is available from the XMLTV Feed (for a Simpson eps). It includes a "Previously Shown" and "original-air-date" date.
<programme airingID="131252334" mediaID="213-7765" start="20170403100000 +0000" stop="20170403103000 +0000" channel="1700">
<title lang="en">The Simpsons</title>
<sub-title lang="en">30 Minutes Over Tokyo</sub-title>
<desc lang="en">The Simpsons find themselves penniless in Tokyo. How will they get home? There is only one solution to their dilemma - a Japanese game show! Can the Simpson's triumph on the "Happy Smile Super Challenge Family Wish Show"? </desc>
<credits>
<actor>Julie Kavner</actor>
<actor>Hank Azaria</actor>
<actor>Nancy Cartwright</actor>
<actor>Dan Castellaneta</actor>
<actor>Yeardley Smith</actor>
<actor>Harry Shearer</actor>
<actor>George Takei</actor>
</credits>
<date>1989</date>
<category lang="en">Cartoon</category>
<category lang="en">Comedy</category>
<category lang="en">Animation</category>
<language lang="en">English</language>
<icon src="http://images.icetv.com.au/cbd4-0683-ac01-7866.jpg" width="700" height="394" />
<country lang="en">United States</country>
<episode-num system="original-air-date">2009-10-15</episode-num>
<episode-num system="thetvdb.com">series/71663</episode-num>
<episode-num system="imdb.com">series/tt0096697</episode-num>
<video>
<present>yes</present>
<colour>yes</colour>
<aspect>4:3</aspect>
<quality>SDTV</quality>
</video>
<previously-shown start="2009-10-15" />
<subtitles type="teletext" />
<rating system="ACMA">
<value>PG</value>
</rating>
</programme>
I see others instead just have an "original-air-date" as with this from data from Neighbours.
<programme airingID="131252321" mediaID="125-0" start="20170403083000 +0000" stop="20170403090000 +0000" channel="1700">
<title lang="en">Neighbours</title>
<desc lang="en">Follow the personal dramas of suburban families living in the fictional Melbourne suburb of Erinsborough as they fall in love, fall out with friends and cope with the trials and tribulations of everyday life. Ramsay Street entered Aussie TV folklore in 1985 and after an initial hiccup (cancellation!), it's been going strong ever since.</desc>
<date>1985</date>
<category lang="en">Soap Opera</category>
<language lang="en">English</language>
<icon src="http://images.icetv.com.au/b9dc-58ab-333a-b82b.jpg" width="1008" height="567" />
<country lang="en">Australia</country>
<episode-num system="original-air-date">2017-04-03</episode-num>
<episode-num system="thetvdb.com">series/76719</episode-num>
<episode-num system="imdb.com">series/tt0088580</episode-num>
<video>
<present>yes</present>
<colour>yes</colour>
<aspect>16:9</aspect>
<quality>SDTV</quality>
</video>
<premiere />
<subtitles type="teletext" />
<rating system="ACMA">
<value>G</value>
</rating>
</programme>
I can always post up a full sample of the XML (5MB) if needed.
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FYI - Also just tested the EPG changes on the XMLTV vs IceTV Web EPG: I saw that Pair of Kings (7Flix) had an updated start time:
7:00am XML Pull: was shown as starting at 9:00am
8:30am Web Site showing it was now starting at 9:05am. Did another XML pull and the EPG updated to show 9:05am
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I would also note that MC could run two EPG collections; One for the minor channels from the OTA EPG, perhaps once a day, and one from IceTV for the majors. That would cover the issue of missing data for the minors.
EDIT: Ah, I forgot that the frequency setting is global, and not defined by EPG collection. I see you are covering that in another thread. Cool. Getting there!
Yup - that will work to fill in the minors then update the majors on a more frequent basis.
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Well that is looking a little more promising, with 15min updates in the XMLTV feed.
I am pretty certain that IceTV used to have a "Repeat" or "Rerun" flag in their data when I used it. Doesn't seem to be there now, but the Previously Shown data serves the purpose, as long as MC interprets it correctly. I think it will, although the formatting of that tag looks a little funny.
Don't post a 5Mb file though. I would just look at it then, and I have lots of other stuff to do! :D
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Colin suggested 15min is via the API, and 30min via the XMLTV
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Hi Guys,
Ok, a few things to go through.
For this feed we have tried to use the standard XMLTV spec as far as we can, we have however added some extra information where it would fit, these are:
Channel elements changes:
- We have added an 'LCN' element to aid in channel mapping.
Under the programme elements we have added:
- airingID - our internal show_id to aid in incremental updates (more on that later)
- mediaID - a combination of our internal series_id-episode_id basically as a guid for a particular show to allow linking the existing recordings to avoid duplication
- sport - If a sporting event the sport type will be listed
- team - If a sporting even it will list the teams playing, still not fully populated
- episode-num
- SxxExx numbering - used next to the standard xmltv_ns namespace to just be a more human readable 1 based series and episode numbering
- original-air-date - Purely the original air date of the show, This is the original air date of the showing in the format YEAR-MONTH-DAY, this field does not indicate a repeat (use the previously-shown element for this) if the air date is in the past. (was added so that every show based entry that is not a once off or a movie would have an episode-num element)
- thetvdb.com - This is the ID's for thetvdb.com, there can be two entries for each show, one for the series (in the format "series/ID") and one for the episode (in the format "episode/ID")
- imdb.com - This is the ID's for imdb.com, there can be two entries for each show, one for the series (in the format "series/ID") and one for the episode (in the format "episode/ID")
- themoviedb.org - This is the ID for this movie from themoviedb.org (still being populated)
These fields are actually unique to the XMLTV feed and are not currently included in our JSON based API, however our JSON based API feed and XMLTV all come from the same database.
The data itself is updated throughout the day by our guide team, and whenever the guide is downloaded your are getting a live snapshot of the guide data for your region at that point in time. If quicker updates are being looked at (in the realm of every 30 minutes) then we can enable incremental updates for the XMLTV feed as well, if we can squeeze it in the XMLTV spec somehow we can even do a journaled feed like our JSON APi so if there is something in the update it would either be a DELETE if flagged as such (based on the airingID) or a ADD/UPDATE (once again based on the airingID) which would definitely save on the complexity of updates.
As for repeats as per the XMLTV spec we have both the <previously-shown> element that is present if a repeat, and the <premiere> element included for first run shows.
We are constantly updating our backend with additional functionality and one of these in the future would give us easier access to the shopping and racing channels so it is something that should show up over time, but there is no set time frame for this to happen at this stage.
Please let me know what your thoughts are and if you want to look at the incremental updates, or of course any other questions. ;D
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This could be another one for Yaobing (again low priority) as I have a an EPG refresh from 8:07pm Thurs 30 Mar and the EPG data in MC runs out on Midday Wed 5 April. It really does not matter as with a regular refresh this is plenty of lead time.
EDIT: Colin, are you also the ones providing the EPG data and Logos to the HDHomeRun app?
Woops, two things I missed here.
For the 7 days, we count today as the current day, so its today + 6 (i.e. from Friday until the end of next Thursday).
While we do have channel logos in the feed, we are not the ones providing guide date to the HDHomeRun app.
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Just loaded the guide and as I expected, the data is great.
Well done IceTV guys - thanks for the xmltv option.
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Hi Justin,
Good news and thanks for the opportunity :)
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Hi Yaobing, how does the XML look?
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Hi Yaobing, how does the XML look?
I am working on some of the things you mentioned:
ratings - I added "ACMA" to the handled system (we were doing "MPAA" only previously).
Original Air Date - this is only part of "Episode" system. I am adding this to Episode if, and only if, other episode system (such as SxxExx, or xmltv_ns) is not available.
TVDB / IMDB references - not sure whether we need these, but if we do, I will need to add new fields to hold these.
Lang / Country / Subtitle - working on these
Path to Ch Icons - working on these
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TVDB / IMDB references - not sure whether we need these, but if we do, I will need to add new fields to hold these.
The database actually has (some) fields for those. "TheTVDB Series ID" and "IMDb Id" (IMDb is only used for movies in MC so far, though)
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The database actually has (some) fields for those. "TheTVDB Series ID" and "IMDb Id" (IMDb is only used for movies in MC so far, though)
You are right. I only need to add TheTVDB Episode ID, and IMDb Series ID. I see in the sample xml file these entries:
<episode-num system="thetvdb.com">series/295684</episode-num>
<episode-num system="thetvdb.com">episode/5497298</episode-num>
<episode-num system="imdb.com">series/tt4378456</episode-num>
<episode-num system="imdb.com">episode/tt5003996</episode-num>
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I doubt we really need the episode ID in TVDB form, we don't use it or get it anywhere else - nor do we use IMDb for Episode-info lookup.
Filling in TVDB Series ID and Season/Episode properly should allow all our metadata tools to work, which is probably a big upgrade for TV recording.
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I doubt we really need the episode ID in TVDB form, we don't use it or get it anywhere else - nor do we use IMDb for Episode-info lookup.
Filling in TVDB Series ID and Season/Episode properly should allow all our metadata tools to work, which is probably a big upgrade for TV recording.
OK, I will just make sure theTVDB Series ID is filled.
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- Lang / Country / Subtitle
In terms of subtitle, all I see in the sample xmltv file is this:
<subtitles type="teletext" />
which I assume means "subtitles are available for this show in teletex format". Is this important?
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I'm not sure of a couple of things:
- Teletext (as it was in the Analog TV days) is dead and no longer transmitted (it was more like a BBS)
- I'm guessing the terminology is a hangover from these days where <subtitles type="teletext" /> indicates the TV Stream is "Closed Captioned" (normally marked in guides as CC, ST, or S) for Hard of Hearing / Deaf. They are similar to subtitles but they appear word by word in a couple of colours (to indicate who is speaking) and take up a couple of lines before starting again.
- I don't think we (currently) do anything with these "Closed Captioned" Streams (I don't see any option to display them).
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Teletext still exists in digital, and its still awful. Unfortunately some channels do still use it for subtitles.
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We currently do not support closed captioning in any format for digital TV :(
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I'm not sure how important CC is for the MC user base. I do not use it but then again in a few more years I may need it :) !
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I'm not sure how important CC is for the MC user base. I do not use it but then again in a few more years I may need it :) !
Some people have made request for it.
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I presume CC is also available on ATSC?
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Closed captioning is something that I've always wondered about in terms of MC.
Laws in Australia make it compulsory for any device that captures or displays TV signals to also capture and be able to display closed captions.
I believe the Television Decoder and circuitry act of 1990 made similar features compulsory in the US.
My question (never actually asked, but often wondered) has always been - does MC constitute such a decoding device under these laws, and if so, is it compliant under the applicable laws regarding closed captioning?
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I'm personally fortunate enough not to need CC functionality.
From an Australian perspective I found this:
https://www.communications.gov.au/what-we-do/television/accessible_television (https://www.communications.gov.au/what-we-do/television/accessible_television)
https://www.communications.gov.au/sites/g/files/net301/f/2015-03-11-Captioning-fact-sheet-REVISED-2.docx (https://www.communications.gov.au/sites/g/files/net301/f/2015-03-11-Captioning-fact-sheet-REVISED-2.docx)
I would expect that the sensible business approach for JRiver would be to respond to user need / request. If the demand isn't there right now, then I'd expect the devs would be better off focussing on other priorities. However, if Australia works to some kind of international standard rather than a purely local deal, then there would naturally be a bigger driver.
Hopefully that's not too much of stating the obvious and it helps.
Personally, it's a plus to see that Australian influence is having a positive part to play on MC development. Nice one. Keep it up.. ;)
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I've posted this here and not in the ICE TV Thread as it is V97 Beta (feel free to move).
Had a look at the refined XMLTV Feed Stuff and it looks pretty good to me:
1. Here is the original XMLTV from ICETV for a Show "Giada At Home S07E04" (sorry no Simpsons on at present!!)
<programme airingID="131323163" mediaID="42223-212009" start="20170407213000 +0000" stop="20170407220000 +0000" channel="2572">
<title lang="en">Giada At Home</title>
<sub-title lang="en">Giada's Quick And Easy Favourites</sub-title>
<desc lang="en">Giada makes four quick and easy recipes that can be prepared in just minutes like Calabrian chili pasta, and red snapper open-faced sandwiches.
</desc>
<credits>
<actor>Giada De Laurentiis</actor>
</credits>
<date>2008</date>
<category lang="en">Cooking</category>
<category lang="en">Food/Wine</category>
<language lang="en">English</language>
<icon src="http://images.icetv.com.au/5346-7e5d-bde6-5d61.jpg" width="680" height="1000" />
<country lang="en">United Kingdom</country>
<episode-num system="SxxExx">S07E04</episode-num>
<episode-num system="xmltv_ns">6.3..</episode-num>
<episode-num system="original-air-date">2015-11-20</episode-num>
<episode-num system="thetvdb.com">series/85062</episode-num>
<episode-num system="imdb.com">series/tt1443927</episode-num>
<video>
<present>yes</present>
<colour>yes</colour>
<aspect>16:9</aspect>
<quality>SDTV</quality>
</video>
<previously-shown start="2015-11-20" />
<rating system="ACMA">
<value>G</value>
</rating>
</programme>
2. 1. Here is the SideCar File for the recording made by MC for "Giada At Home S07E04"
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes" ?>
<MPL Version="2.0" Title="JRSidecar" PathSeparator="\">
<Item>
<Field Name="Filename">\\MAIN\Media\Video\TV Recordings\Giada At Home - S07E04 - Giada's Quick And Easy Favourites.ts</Field>
<Field Name="MPAA Rating">G</Field>
<Field Name="Episode">4</Field>
<Field Name="Compression">ts video (video: mpeg2, audio: mp2)</Field>
<Field Name="Bitrate">3400</Field>
<Field Name="Bit Depth">16</Field>
<Field Name="Country">United Kingdom</Field>
<Field Name="Language">English</Field>
<Field Name="Rerun">1</Field>
<Field Name="Date Recorded">42833.3125</Field>
<Field Name="Genre">Cooking</Field>
<Field Name="Season">7</Field>
<Field Name="Aspect Ratio">16:9</Field>
<Field Name="Actors">Giada De Laurentiis</Field>
<Field Name="Program ID">42223-212009</Field>
<Field Name="FPS">25</Field>
<Field Name="Artist">33 Food Network</Field>
<Field Name="Stack Top">-1</Field>
<Field Name="Channels">2</Field>
<Field Name="Description">Giada makes four quick and easy recipes that can be prepared in just minutes like Calabrian chili pasta, and red snapper open-faced sandwiches.</Field>
<Field Name="Date First Rated">1491600825</Field>
<Field Name="Keywords">Cooking; Food/Wine; SDTV</Field>
<Field Name="TheTVDB Series ID">85062</Field>
<Field Name="Bookmark">60000</Field>
<Field Name="Access Rating">G</Field>
<Field Name="Stack View">0</Field>
<Field Name="Media Sub Type">TV Show</Field>
<Field Name="Playable">1</Field>
<Field Name="Playback Info">(1:2)(12:DTVProgramID)(3:772)(11:AspectRatio)(30:(1:4)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:1)(1:0))</Field>
<Field Name="TV Channel">4483916</Field>
<Field Name="Series">Giada At Home</Field>
<Field Name="Date">42328</Field>
<Field Name="Recording Rule ID">43451311</Field>
<Field Name="Name">Giada's Quick And Easy Favourites</Field>
<Field Name="Sample Rate">48000</Field>
<Field Name="Duration">284</Field>
</Item>
</MPL>
3. Fields for the recording in the DB (shows other stuff not in the Sidecar file)
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes" ?>
<MPL Version="2.0" Title="DB - All" PathSeparator="\">
<Item>
<Field Name="Filename">\\MAIN\Media\Video\TV Recordings\Giada At Home - S07E04 - Giada's Quick And Easy Favourites.ts</Field>
<Field Name="Name">Giada's Quick And Easy Favourites</Field>
<Field Name="Artist">33 Food Network</Field>
<Field Name="Genre">Cooking</Field>
<Field Name="Date">42328</Field>
<Field Name="Bitrate">3400</Field>
<Field Name="Image File">http://images.icetv.com.au/5346-7e5d-bde6-5d61.jpg</Field>
<Field Name="Duration">284</Field>
<Field Name="Media Type">Video</Field>
<Field Name="Keywords">Cooking; Food/Wine; SDTV</Field>
<Field Name="Access Rating">G</Field>
<Field Name="Description">Giada makes four quick and easy recipes that can be prepared in just minutes like Calabrian chili pasta, and red snapper open-faced sandwiches.</Field>
<Field Name="Media Sub Type">TV Show</Field>
<Field Name="Country">United Kingdom</Field>
<Field Name="Language">English</Field>
<Field Name="Bookmark">60000</Field>
<Field Name="Playback Info">(1:2)(12:DTVProgramID)(3:772)(11:AspectRatio)(30:(1:4)(1:0)(1:0)(1:0)(1:1)(1:0))</Field>
<Field Name="Date Imported">1491600540</Field>
<Field Name="File Type">ts</Field>
<Field Name="File Size">121017856</Field>
<Field Name="Date Created">1491600540</Field>
<Field Name="Date Modified">1491600824</Field>
<Field Name="Compression">ts video (video: mpeg2, audio: mp2)</Field>
<Field Name="Sample Rate">48000</Field>
<Field Name="Channels">2</Field>
<Field Name="Bit Depth">16</Field>
<Field Name="Width">720</Field>
<Field Name="Height">576</Field>
<Field Name="MPAA Rating">G</Field>
<Field Name="Aspect Ratio">16:9</Field>
<Field Name="Actors">Giada De Laurentiis</Field>
<Field Name="FPS">25</Field>
<Field Name="Series">Giada At Home</Field>
<Field Name="Season">7</Field>
<Field Name="Episode">4</Field>
<Field Name="TV Channel">4483916</Field>
<Field Name="Recording Rule ID">43451311</Field>
<Field Name="Date Recorded">42833.3125</Field>
<Field Name="TheTVDB Series ID">85062</Field>
<Field Name="Rerun">1</Field>
<Field Name="Date First Rated">1491600825</Field>
<Field Name="Program ID">42223-212009</Field>
</Item>
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2. NEW: TV Channel and program icon URL will be automatically added to database if they are available in xmltv file.
- As part of the recording process is it worth copying the coverart from the URL to the Coverart directory (as at some point it may disappear from the URL)? I tried doing this manually but it did not seem to create the JPG file in the coverart directory and hovering over the coverart still showed the URL to the icetv.jpg
- How (when) does the grabbing, and storing of the TV Icons work?
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- As part of the recording process is it worth copying the coverart from the URL to the Coverart directory (as at some point it may disappear from the URL)? I tried doing this manually but it did not seem to create the JPG file in the coverart directory and hovering over the coverart still showed the URL to the icetv.jpg
Do you see the image on "Manage Channels" window? If so, try the following:
Channel Logo > Copy to clipboard (first file)
Channel Logo > Paste from clipboard (image or URL)
If you are able to somehow copy the URL, not sure how to do it as I do not have a channel with the URL filled in ImageFile field, you can try Channel Logo > Paste from clipboard (image or URL). That should create an image file in coverart directory.
- How (when) does the grabbing, and storing of the TV Icons work?
What I did was, each time EPG is being loaded we check the channels list and look for icon element. If the Image File field is not already filled we put the URL in it. I was not able to test whether this works.
In theory, if the URL is in the Image File field, MC should open it and display the image on "Manage Channels" window, or in the Theater View Guide grid.
If this does not work, I will need to add code to download the image and save it somewhere and then put the local file name in the field.
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FYI - Yaobing has done a fair bit of work on using more data from the XML feed and it looks great so far!, you now get both Channel Logos and Coverart for TV Shows (where populated) as well as mapping for other data fields. TV is starting to look much more like other areas of MC.
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Thanks - got it, and it's looking great!
Cleared some of the existing Ch Logo I had and then refreshed the EPG.... and MC Populated the Image File field with Logos for those with the links!
- Instant Ch Logos just show up and work
- You get not only EPG info but also coverart for the TV Show when hovering
Couple of comments (some are probably also for ICETV):
- You don't get the channel logos if you can not reach their server (eg they are loaded dynamically each time).
- The originals are PNG and the transparency causes an issue on some channels where the logo is the same colour as the background Black and the Background is dark, eg like this one : http://images.icetv.com.au/channels/sbs-one-v3.png . I'm not sure how we do the Thumbs in other parts of MC but I've not seen any other stuff disappear like this one into the background
- when doing a Copy to clipboard (first file) > Paste from clipboard (image or URL) you lose transparency (original is a PNG, the copy is a JPG)
Looks good and I've attached a screen shot from TheaterView where you can see
- CH 1 Logo : Auto Populated Channel Logo from IceTV then Copy to clipboard (first file) > Paste from clipboard (image or URL), shows loss of transperency
- CH 2,3,7,9,10 : Show the Auto Populated Channel Logo (using the ICE TV URL). Ch 3 is hard to see as the logo is similar to be background
- CH 11 up is manually populated TV Logos
- Bottom Right you can see the Coverart being pulled from IceTV for Diagnosis Murder
Some Suggestions (thinking out loud, and other may have better ideas)... + none are high priority...
- When starting a recording, automatically do the equivalent of a Copy to clipboard (first file) > Paste from clipboard (image or URL) to get a permanent Coverart for the file as I'm sure it will roll-off from the IceTV servers
- Have a "Refresh and Save TV Logos from EPG if exist" option in Manage Channels so a local copy can be stored and used instead of trying to pull the online image for each channel each time
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- You get not only EPG info but also coverart for the TV Show when hovering
Even before this addition we have the ability to show images in Theater View. I think we did an on-the-fly internet search of the coverart for the show. I think I was talking about a different thing.
Couple of comments (some are probably also for ICETV):
- You don't get the channel logos if you can not reach their server (eg they are loaded dynamically each time).
Maybe it is a good idea for us to download the image and save locally, instead of just keeping an URL. At least we should do it for channel logos, and probably not for program logos. If you are able to download the xmltv file, you should be able to download the image files (unless different servers are used). This will also solve the problem of server pulling the image, or changing the link (as we do not update when the field is already filled).
- The originals are PNG and the transparency causes an issue on some channels where the logo is the same colour as the background Black and the Background is dark, eg like this one : http://images.icetv.com.au/channels/sbs-one-v3.png . I'm not sure how we do the Thumbs in other parts of MC but I've not seen any other stuff disappear like this one into the background
- when doing a Copy to clipboard (first file) > Paste from clipboard (image or URL) you lose transparency (original is a PNG, the copy is a JPG)
Thumbnails use jpg file, thus the loss of transparency. I assume Copy-and-paste converts to jpg as well.
When channel logo was initially introduced, I used thumbnail tool to display it. That resulted in loss of transparency. So I recently changed it so we don't do any conversion.
I don't know what you can do when a logo with transparency blends too well into the background.
Some Suggestions (thinking out loud, and other may have better ideas)... + none are high priority...
- When starting a recording, automatically do the equivalent of a Copy to clipboard (first file) > Paste from clipboard (image or URL) to get a permanent Coverart for the file as I'm sure it will roll-off from the IceTV servers
Good idea. Instead of "Copy to clipboard (first file) > Paste from clipboard (image or URL)", we should just try downloading and saving the file directly, either in the recording folder or in the coverart folder.
- Have a "Refresh and Save TV Logos from EPG if exist" option in Manage Channels so a local copy can be stored and used instead of trying to pull the online image for each channel each time
We ignore the EPG images if the channel Image File field is already filled. Having an option to overwrite may be a good idea.
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Sounds good. FYI, I'm using "Coverart" to talk about recordings that are made and stored in MC, and "Logos" for the TV Channel artwork, so yes: ONLY replacing the URL in the "Image File" field with a downloaded local copy when:
- A recording commences
- The "Image File" field is blank for a TV Channel (should happen only once on initial setup), or the users wants to update it (eg in Manage Channels --> Right Click --> Channel Logo --> Get/Update from EPG). Alternatively a user could do a Manage Channels --> Right Click --> Channel Logo --> Remove Coverart and wait till the next EPG Scan.
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I've just updated to .97 and will post an update once the guide updates.
Without seeing it in action yet, just want to say Thanks to Yaobing for his work on this.
Now if only MC worked with the full IceTV API ;)
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UPDATE: Is it just me or is the cover art for movies not working? TV series seem to be OK, but movies are missing.
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I also see that. It may be worth asking in the main IceTV thread. A quick scan of their EPG info shows Coverart art links for TV Series etc but not for Movies.
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One for the IceTV guys -
It seems there are no coverart links for movies in the xml data. Is there a reason for this?
Cheers,
J.
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If they provide an IMDb Id for movies, our metadata lookup should be able to gather some.
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I've posted the question in the main IceTV thread.
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Couple of comments (some are probably also for ICETV):
- You don't get the channel logos if you can not reach their server (eg they are loaded dynamically each time).
- The originals are PNG and the transparency causes an issue on some channels where the logo is the same colour as the background Black and the Background is dark, eg like this one : http://images.icetv.com.au/channels/sbs-one-v3.png . I'm not sure how we do the Thumbs in other parts of MC but I've not seen any other stuff disappear like this one into the background
- when doing a Copy to clipboard (first file) > Paste from clipboard (image or URL) you lose transparency (original is a PNG, the copy is a JPG)
According to the changelog, v.82
1. Fixed: Television channel logos' transparency was not retained.
However JM is correct - If I create my own .png logo and import this as the channel logo manually, the transparency is not being kept, however it IS if the file is coming from the icetv URL.
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However JM is correct - If I create my own .png logo and import this as the channel logo manually, the transparency is not being kept, however it IS if the file is coming from the icetv URL.
The important thing is to use the original image, which is the case for IceTV data because we just use the URL and download the image on the fly. If you have a local png image, and use Channel Logo > Add From File, make sure you select "No", when asked about saving the file in coverart folder. The entire Channel Logo submenu is part of coverart tool and I believe it only saves images in jpg format. So choosing "No" will prevent MC from converting the format, and preserve the original external image.
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We're working on it and it should be in place within a couple of weeks. Apologies but we're on to it.
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If they provide an IMDb Id for movies, our metadata lookup should be able to gather some.
Not yet it seems for Movies (they posted in the other thread they hope to add it). Currently for Movies you get the following (example) from their XML:
<programme airingID="131417115" mediaID="44633-0" start="20170412103000 +0000" stop="20170412122500 +0000" channel="2614">
<title lang="en"> Veronica Mars</title>
<desc lang="en">After nine years on the opposite side of the country where she settled into a new, stable life with Piz, Veronica gets pulled back in. It's a phone call from Logan Echols that gets her going - and back to Neptune she heads, since Logan has been accused of murder.</desc>
<credits>
<director>Rob Thomas</director>
<actor>Kristen Bell</actor>
<actor>Jason Dohring</actor>
<actor>Enrico Colantoni</actor>
</credits>
<date>2014</date>
<category lang="en">Movie</category>
<language lang="en">English</language>
<country lang="en">United States</country>
<video>
<present>yes</present>
<colour>yes</colour>
<aspect>16:9</aspect>
<quality>SDTV</quality>
</video>
<previously-shown start="2016-10-15" />
<rating system="ACMA">
<value>M</value>
</rating>
</programme>
So we currently know that an entry is a Movie and have the Name, and Year. So a simple search for Veronica Mars 2014 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2771372/?ref_=fn_ft_tt_1) on IMDb works.
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The important thing is to use the original image, which is the case for IceTV data because we just use the URL and download the image on the fly. If you have a local png image, and use Channel Logo > Add From File, make sure you select "No", when asked about saving the file in coverart folder. The entire Channel Logo submenu is part of coverart tool and I believe it only saves images in jpg format. So choosing "No" will prevent MC from converting the format, and preserve the original external image.
Fantastic! Thanks for that Yaobing. I'm using the icetv logos for most of the channels, but as JM said, some of them are black, which didn't really work in theatre view, so I've inverted the colours on those ones.
BTW, I'm really liking how this is integrating now. Thanks for your work, Yaobing.
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No need to apologise - it's great to see you guys on the way back after the debacle of last year. Keep up the good work 😊
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I've jumped on board, having being using free scrapers for many years, initial results look excellent.
Thank you to the IceTV guys and Yaobing for the great work.
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Yaobing, am I missing something? When I add a cover art from a file, I don't get the option of whether or not to save to cover art folder...
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Yaobing, am I missing something? When I add a cover art from a file, I don't get the option of whether or not to save to cover art folder...
Had you checked "don't show this again" checkbox previously?
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Yep. Reset it and all is good. Thanks Yaobing.
JM, I suggest you invert the colours of the SBS and SBS Food logos and import these manually.
This is looking great! Now I'm thinking about more improvements - like perhaps the option to use the channel logo instead of the channel name on the OSD? The cover art to the side of the description on the info OSD? Just thinking out loud here 😊
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One for the IceTV guys -
It seems there are no coverart links for movies in the xml data. Is there a reason for this?
Cheers,
J.
As an addition to Colin's timeline, with the movie images we will also be adding another episode-num scheme for the moviedb similar to the current tvdb one with ID's for the moviedb.
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FYI - I've merged the thread from the Beta Forum now V97 is out.
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Just started using IceTV EPG in Australia. I find it much better than OTA EPG,
Just a couple questions:
IceTV does not fill in all the channels. Not a big deal since they are channels I do not watch. It got me wondering tho - firstly, could I fill in those channels via OTA EPG (without wiping out the IceTV data) and more importantly, could meta data like missing series/episodes be somehow supplemented from other sources.
MC has an option not to record duplicates or reruns etc based on a field like name, description or series/episode. If those fields are blank or default/generic values that MC has previously recorded, will MC see all such future instances as "this is the same value as a previous recording" and therefore NOT record? Is it better to choose multiple fields or just one?
Thanks
David
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firstly, could I fill in those channels via OTA EPG (without wiping out the IceTV data)
Yes. You can run IceTV for all the channels they support, and then the MC OTA EPG collection for only the remaining channels. You can manage that in MC TV Setup using two processes, with an IceTV XML file import and a separate MC OTA EPG Collection.
Someone has written about that previously around here somewhere.
and more importantly, could meta data like missing series/episodes be somehow supplemented from other sources.
Yes. You could run EPGCollector for the remaining channels instead of the MC OTA EPG collection, then use the built-in Metadata lookup in EPGCollector to add data. However, if the OTA EIT data is really rubbish, neither EPGCollector or any other tool is going to improve the metadata much. You may find another source for the EPG for the missing channels, but that isn't likely in Australia. There a some still available I think, but they are a lot of work.
Then you just run two XMLTV file imports. One for IceTV and one for EPGCollector.
You can also pass the XMLTV file to EPGCollector as part of its run, where it collects just for the missing channels. I think you could also run the additional metadata lookup for all data that way, but it probably won't improve the IceTV data, and may break it. You would have to try it if you wanted to.
I haven't implemented IceTV since their revival, so I haven't implemented the above solutions. YMMV.
Note: I read somewhere that MHEG5 data is still available OTA, but I haven't tested that. It may have just been for New Zealand. If MHEG5 data is available in Australia that is much better than EIT, and gets improved a lot by the EPGCollector lookup process.
MC has an option not to record duplicates or reruns etc based on a field like name, description or series/episode. If those fields are blank or default/generic values that MC has previously recorded, will MC see all such future instances as "this is the same value as a previous recording" and therefore NOT record?
No. The metadata selected must match.
Is it better to choose multiple fields or just one?
Less is better when using the option not to record duplicates. Series, Season and Episode are best. Series and Name are next best. Using the Description is bad at any time, as it varies too much. Broadcasters deliberately obfuscate repeat shows all the time. Even out beloved ABC doesn't give Season and Episode metadata at the moment for most programs, and all repeats have generic names, often for the Series and Name. i.e. Doctor Who just gets the Series and (Episode) Name for new programs, which is enough for EPGCollector to find additional metadata. But for repeats both Series and Name are just set to "Doctor Who". Often the Description as well. @#!&^%@)*&
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Okay and thank you Roderick very much for the detailed reply
No. The metadata selected must match. Less is better when using the option not to record duplicates. Series, Season and Episode are best. Series and Name are next best. Using the Description is bad at any time, as it varies too much. Broadcasters deliberately obfuscate repeat shows all the time. Even out beloved ABC doesn't give Season and Episode metadata at the moment for most programs, and all repeats have generic names, often for the Series and Name. i.e. Doctor Who just gets the Series and (Episode) Name for new programs, which is enough for EPGCollector to find additional metadata. But for repeats both Series and Name are just set to "Doctor Who". Often the Description as well. @#!&^%@)*&
If you always had Series, season and episode metadata its a no brainer to choose this data as the basis for preventing duplicates. If Series, Season and Episode is selected to prevent duplicates and the EPG just shows "Series name" like "Frasier" for every showing but not a name for the particular episode and shows season = -1 and episode = -1 , will MC record all broadcasts, or no broadcasts if it sees every Frasier Season -1 and episode -1 as a match = duplicate ?
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If the fields selected aren't an exact match, the duplicate program will be recorded. Better to get more and redundant recordings than to miss some.
I pretty much only use Name and Series Name now, with the poor quality OTA EIT data. Even then I get duplicates, and sometimes miss shows because all showings just have the Name and Series Name are always just the Series name. Then I turn off the duplicate part of the rule and record everything.
I've never seen Season and Episode set to -1 that I can remember, but if you had Series = Frasier, Season= -1, and Epsiode= -1 for every showing, and used those fields for the duplicate rule, then only the first showing would be recorded.
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If the fields selected aren't an exact match, the duplicate program will be recorded. Better to get more and redundant recordings than to miss some.
I pretty much only use Name and Series Name now, with the poor quality OTA EIT data. Even then I get duplicates, and sometimes miss shows because all showings just have the Name and Series Name are always just the Series name. Then I turn off the duplicate part of the rule and record everything.
I've never seen Season and Episode set to -1 that I can remember, but if you had Series = Frasier, Season= -1, and Epsiode= -1 for every showing, and used those fields for the duplicate rule, then only the first showing would be recorded.
Okay thank you very much for this.
ICeTV appears to be doing a good job getting Season and episode info. For those shows where such info is not available, at least I now understand how MC will work with potential duplicates. Thanks again