INTERACT FORUM
Windows => Television => Topic started by: DocLotus on September 21, 2015, 03:22:02 pm
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i have all my TV Recording Rules Options set for...
TV Recording Options, Cleanup Mode, Delete After 1 Day.
I thought they were previously working but now notice that my HD is filling up as the old recordings are not being deleted after one day (or after any time).
Is this feature broken?
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The clean up will not be done if MC detects any tuner being used or any recording actions being scheduled for current time. Do you think there might be a problem of tuners not being released? I can't think of any other reasons.
I have not used the feature regularly so I can not confirm whether it is working or not. I just scheduled a subscription recording, but I will not be able to see whether cleanup works until a couple of days later.
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Do you think there might be a problem of tuners not being released?
I have been seeing a lot of the TSRRenders error messages in this version of MC, so yes I suspect turners are not being released.
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The first subscription recording that I setup on Monday is now gone from my disk. So it seems to be working correctly.
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The first subscription recording that I setup on Monday is now gone from my disk. So it seems to be working correctly.
Mine used to delete old subscriptions from the HD but now the HD just gets fuller & fuller with no deletions.
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Could the "Keep at most 10 episodes" have any effect on this problem even though it is not checked?
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I just setup a couple of subscriptions to test with. I'll report back in a couple of days if I see any of the same problems.
I setup a subscription to "delete after 1 day", another to "delete after 4 days", and one subscription to "keep at most 3 episodes".
Is it possible that the folder where the TV shows/recordings are stored is "Read-Write only".
I just checked the "default" Recording folder on my testing computer and it says the folder/files where my recordings go is "Read Only". However that didn't stop me from deleting a file just now so I don't know if this means anything.
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Thanks; I await your test results.
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Is it possible that the folder where the TV shows/recordings are stored is "Read-Write only".
I just checked the "default" Recording folder on my testing computer and it says the folder/files where my recordings go is "Read Only". However that didn't stop me from deleting a file just now so I don't know if this means anything.
I've noticed the folders where TV recordings are stored are a little odd...
1: Mine too show as "Read Only" but I can also delete them manually.
2: I un-check the "Read Only", it is automatically re-checked the next time I look at it.
3: Can't sort the TV Recordings (using Directory Opus); the sort order seems to be locked.
4: The old folder (now empty) where WMC recordings used to be stored also show as "Read Only" & is automatically re-checked the next time I look at it after removing the Read Only check.
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I have had a recording rule for a daily news show set up since MC18. It is currently set to delete programs after seven days, but I have changed that a couple of times, as I used to just keep two days, then four, now seven.
Through all versions and rule changes, that rule has kept working. I just checked it now, and I have just seven days of news saved.
So I think that functionality is working. So long as MC gets a chance to delete the programs, which means no scheduled or active recordings, and no live TV playing.
One thing that would stop this from working would be if you never hit stop before turning off your system at night or walking away from it, so that in theory a live TV channel is still playing. If a channel is playing and your MC Server is set to always stay awake, or sleep when not in use, it would probably never sleep. When you turn off your TV, Receiver, Amp, or whatever is connected to it, then it wouldn't be obvious that MC was still playing a TV channel, so MC couldn't delete recorded programs.
Could that be the issue? If so, just try stopping all TV before shutting down at night. Or try it right now.
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One thing that would stop this from working would be if you never hit stop before turning off your system at night or walking away from it, so that in theory a live TV channel is still playing. If a channel is playing and your MC Server is set to always stay awake, or sleep when not in use, it would probably never sleep. When you turn off your TV, Receiver, Amp, or whatever is connected to it, then it wouldn't be obvious that MC was still playing a TV channel, so MC couldn't delete recorded programs.
Could that be the issue? If so, just try stopping all TV before shutting down at night. Or try it right now.
I think you are on to something... I seldom shut down MC separately from Windows shut down. Most of the time I simply put Windows into Hybrid Hibernate or Shutdown.
I see what you are saying but am wondering why MC has to be shut down for old recordings to be deleted? Can't they simply be deleted the next time MC starts up? If not, why not?
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One thing that would stop this from working would be if you never hit stop before turning off your system at night or walking away from it, so that in theory a live TV channel is still playing.
Stop Playing current selection OR Exit from MC?
Exit from MC gives the "Stop running tools / TV Recording" which seems to kill all playback or on-going recordings while simply hitting the "Stop Playback" button does not stop on-going recordings. If I'm playing music & hit "Stop" only the music is stopped but any on-going TV recordings continue.
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If a channel is playing and your MC Server is set to always stay awake, or sleep when not in use, it would probably never sleep.
No server, only one stand-a-lone PC. I never use any of the Windows sleep modes; only Shut down or Hybrid Hibernate.
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Could that be the issue? If so, just try stopping all TV before shutting down at night. Or try it right now.
I almost always have music playing (no current live TV playing) when I shut down Windows but, there is often one or more TV channels being recorded; does that have to be stopped also? If so, THAT is ONE BIG HASSLE. :P. That would mean I would have to Exit MC before each Windows Shutdown which seems to be an unnecessary extra step in shutting down Windows just so MC can delete some files. There has to be a better way to perform this very basic & simple task of file deletion.
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Or try it right now.
I can't right now as last night I manually deleted all my recordings as the HD was filling up fast. Will try it later as a couple of days recordings are added to the HD.
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Stop Playing current selection OR Exit from MC?
I meant just stop playing any live TV. Leave all recordings alone. I assume there are some times when MC is running, but nothing is recording.
I also assume that playing music wouldn't prevent the TV recordings clean-up from running, but why don't you experiment with that. Yaobing may be able to clarify if playing music prevents the clean-up. Basically, MC background processes are run when nothing else is happening, so it is possible that playing music prevents the clean-up.
Also, if you are using MC all the time, then either shut down the PC or hibernate it, MC may not be getting any "quiet time" to run the clean-up. I suggest that you think about setting up the PC to sleep when not in use. You need that for scheduled recordings to work anyway. That should give MC some "quiet time" between when you finish using the PC, and before it goes to sleep.
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I also assume that playing music wouldn't prevent the TV recordings clean-up from running, but why don't you experiment with that. Yaobing may be able to clarify if playing music prevents the clean-up. Basically, MC background processes are run when nothing else is happening, so it is possible that playing music prevents the clean-up.
THAT is a most interesting statement; gives one a lot to think about. I await Yaobing's answer.
Also, if you are using MC all the time, then either shut down the PC or hibernate it, MC may not be getting any "quiet time" to run the clean-up.
That sounds like my PC to a "T"... MC (music) runs at Windows startup & is never off until Windows shutdown.
I suggest that you think about setting up the PC to sleep when not in use. You need that for scheduled recordings to work anyway. That should give MC some "quiet time" between when you finish using the PC, and before it goes to sleep.
Are you saying that MC can record TV while in Windows Sleep mode? If so, that is most interesting as I never thought that to be possible as the HD's are stopped.
Am also wondering about MC's need for "quiet time". I assume MC is a single-threaded application so it can only do one serious thing at a time? In today's world of multi-core CPU's why can't MC do several things at once (such as a simple file deletion in the background)?
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Playing music does not prevent background TV tasks from being carried out.
When there is a TV recording scheduled, at the time when Windows goes to sleep, MC sets up a wake timer for the system to wake up at the scheduled time. Then the hard disk will wake up along with the rest of the system, to do TV recording.
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Ah. Yaobing beat me to the reply. So playing music shouldn't stop the clean-up process, but recording programs and watching TV live does. Below is my reply before I saw Yaobing's reply.
Are you saying that MC can record TV while in Windows Sleep mode? If so, that is most interesting as I never thought that to be possible as the HD's are stopped.
Yes of course. That is how most people use it. If Windows is in sleep mode (S3) and a program is scheduled to be recorded, MC will wake the PC, including starting up the drives, record the program, and then go back to sleep again. Well, as long as sleep is set up correctly on the PC.
Am also wondering about MC's need for "quiet time". I assume MC is a single-threaded application so it can only do one serious thing at a time? In today's world of multi-core CPU's why can't MC do several things at once (such as a simple file deletion in the background)?
No MC is very multi-threaded. Would you really like MC to start analysing audio, doing maintenance on TV recordings such as deleting them, running an automatic backup, etc. while you are watching a HD video that uses significant PC resources, or listening to high fidelity music while relaxed on the couch in your listening room? Some people would object to that a lot.
Don't underestimate what is required to delete old programs. MC has to look up every rule to see when programs should be deleted, then look at what programs are still on disk, decide which to delete, and then the file is deleted. That is quite a bit of activity, and it could impact on the watching/listening experience of users.
Mind you, MC does run some background processes when other foreground activities are occurring, such as playing media. Only the developers can clarify what runs while watching TV or video, or listening to music, and what will not run.
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Playing music does not prevent background TV tasks from being carried out.
When there is a TV recording scheduled, at the time when Windows goes to sleep, MC sets up a wake timer for the system to wake up at the scheduled time. Then the hard disk will wake up along with the rest of the system, to do TV recording.
Ahh... Both are good to know. I assume once awake, the system will stay awake after the TV recording is completed?
The clean up will not be done if MC detects any tuner being used or any recording actions being scheduled for current time.
Why is the simple deletion of old TV recordings so dependent on all tuners being free? Why is it not a totally separate action?
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Wonderful feedback... thanks.
Don't underestimate what is required to delete old programs. MC has to look up every rule to see when programs should be deleted, then look at what programs are still on disk, decide which to delete, and then the file is deleted. That is quite a bit of activity, and it could impact on the watching/listening experience of users.
How far back in time (MC version number) does this method of deleting old recordings go? What I'm wondering is, if it goes back a ways (in the days of dual-core, low speed CPU's) it may be time to consider an update as how it is carried out with today's faster systems as the impact on performance may now not be as great.
I often do many other things (such as viewing dual TV channels at the same time using both MC TV & WMC), deleting, moving files around, etc & seldom see any degradation of TV performance.
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I can think of two responses to the "Why does it happen this way" questions.
1. JRiver has only just dropped, or actually is about to drop, official support of Windows XP, and there was more than a little push back on that. Many people still use Windows XP on old hardware to run MC.
2. MC is an audiophile application. Anything that could upset the quality of audio, or video, is seen as a bad thing.
My understanding is that MC does a range of background TV activities on a regular basis, rather than just the clean-up. For example, it regularly checks if there are more programs to record based on rules, if I understand correctly. I suspect all those TV are done at once. So there may be something in that set of processes that requires a tuner to be available. Again, only Yaobing would know.
But I don't speak for JRiver. I'm sure changes will happen over time. Maybe not just yet though.
Also, if a PC is set to sleep when not in use, then woken to record a program, it will go back to sleep once the recording is finished. So no, the system will not stay awake after the TV recording is completed.
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So there may be something in that set of processes that requires a tuner to be available.
The clean up will not be done if MC detects any tuner being used or any recording actions being scheduled for current time. Do you think there might be a problem of tuners not being released? I can't think of any other reasons.
If I read Yaobing's post correctly, ALL tuners must be free before the old recordings will be deleted. That is unacceptable as I have four tuners and there is often something always being recorded which means MC will NEVER delete the old recordings (which is exactly what is happening to me).
I do have a little "quite time" in the morning (week days only between 6:30 AM & 11:00 AM) where no TV is scheduled to be recorded nor do I view any TV during those hours. So why is MC not deleting the old recordings at that time? Is there a scheduled time that MC uses to do it's background work?
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1. JRiver has only just dropped, or actually is about to drop, official support of Windows XP, and there was more than a little push back on that. Many people still use Windows XP on old hardware to run MC.
Ah, XP... brings back memories ::). Yes that would count as long ago (in the dark ages of dual-core, sub 2 GHz CPU's). But with it's passing & as MC is used on today's better hardware it may be time to re-think how old TV recordings are handled?
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If I read Yaobing's post correctly, ALL tuners must be free before the old recordings will be deleted. That is unacceptable as I have four tuners and there is often something always being recorded which means MC will NEVER delete the old recordings (which is exactly what is happening to me).
I do have a little "quite time" in the morning (week days only between 6:30 AM & 11:00 AM) where no TV is scheduled to be recorded nor do I view any TV during those hours. So why is MC not deleting the old recordings at that time? Is there a scheduled time that MC uses to do it's background work?
Wow, that is intense!
Your morning quiet time SHOULD be enough for MC to do clean up. Is the computer running during that time? If you always manually put computer in sleep, then there is no time for MC to do clean up. You can try setting up Windows so it will automatically go to sleep after 20 minutes for example.
We make decisions to do thing this way based on various reasons. Some may no longer be relevant. One reason I can think of, and I believe is a good reason, is to reduce disk activity when there are already a lot of disk activities going on when a tuner is being used.
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Your morning quiet time SHOULD be enough for MC to do clean up. Is the computer running during that time? If you always manually put computer in sleep, then there is no time for MC to do clean up. You can try setting up Windows so it will automatically go to sleep after 20 minutes for example.
The computer runs all day long from about 7 AM to 10:30 PM seven days a week. It never goes to sleep, I usually do a Hybrid Hibernate or Shutdown.
We make decisions to do thing this way based on various reasons. Some may no longer be relevant. One reason I can think of, and I believe is a good reason, is to reduce disk activity when there are already a lot of disk activities going on when a tuner is being used.
That makes good sense, I now see why all tuners need to be free for background work to be carried out as TV recordings produce very large files that may indeed use up large amounts of disk activity. This is one of those "Catch 22" situations where darn if you do & darn if you don't.
What it all boils down to is if you most always have some viewing or recordings going on MC may not delete the old TV Recordings in a timely manor as it simply may not meet the requirements of all tuners being free at any one time (or for a long enough time to do the clean up).
Thank you, Yaobing. Your explanation was most helpful indeed. I now have a much better understanding of the problems associated with TV recordings cleanup.
Now all I have to do is figure out a way to use all this great & wonderful info to make my MC TV actually do the clean up.
As it used to work I'm beginning to suspect the morning hours "quite time" may not be long enough to allow MC to do it's cleanup job. I may remove some more of the morning recording to give a "clean" quite time of let's say between 6 AM - 12 noon. That should be enough time for MC to do it's thing?
What do you think?
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I can't imagine it needs more than a few minutes to do clean up, especially if it is done regularly.
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Sorry, I misspoke yesterday. Playing audio does prevent background TV tasks from being carried out.
On the other hand, disk clean up and EPG data loading are both in the same category. If your EPG data are updated, that means MC did find a quiet time to carry out background tasks.
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Sorry, I misspoke yesterday. Playing audio does prevent background TV tasks from being carried out.
Oh... that's the reason cleanup is not working... I ALWAYS have music playing unless the TV is being viewed/recorded. I need to think about a work-a-round for that problem.
On the other hand, disk clean up and EPG data loading are both in the same category. If your EPG data are updated, that means MC did find a quiet time to carry out background tasks.
EPG seems to be up to date, but I make so many changes so often & run so many test (like just an hour ago I changed out two of my tuners) it is sometimes difficult to tell when something updated itself automatically or I manually updated it. I should just leave everything alone for a couple of days & see what happens by itself.
I can't imagine it needs more than a few minutes to do clean up, especially if it is done regularly.
So cleanup can happen fairly fast then? Does cleanup start as soon as all MC tuners are free & no music is playing or is there a built-in delay or timer before it starts?
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So cleanup can happen fairly fast then? Does cleanup start as soon as all MC tuners are free & no music is playing or is there a built-in delay or timer before it starts?
As soon as possible after 8 hours of last cleanup.
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So the bottom line is anyone that has MC "always on" & always doing something with music or TV may not see TV cleanup; I think that is one more reason why we need a better way for MC to do TV recording cleanup. MC is after all one mean music player & that is what it is used most often for. If my computer is on MC is on (usually playing music) 8).
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As soon as possible after 8 hours of last cleanup.
Will the cleanup routine still run if MC is NOT loaded? As no music or TV will be viewed or recorded if MC is not loaded I'm thinking that may be a way to delete the old recordings. Or will MC still tie up tuners if TV records are scheduled even if MC is not loaded?
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No. MC needs to be running for MC to do anything.
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Will the cleanup routine still run if MC is NOT loaded? As no music or TV will be viewed or recorded if MC is not loaded I'm thinking that may be a way to delete the old recordings. Or will MC still tie up tuners if TV records are scheduled even if MC is not loaded?
MC needs at least the MC Server or the MC Client running to do the background clean-up process. (Yaobing beat me again. :D)
Tuners aren't tied up by future scheduled recordings of programs. They are only tied up when the recording process begins.
This is what I suggest you do.
1. Set up your PC to go to sleep when idle, rather than shutting it down or hibernating it manually when you don't need it.
2. Set the time delay for the PC to go to sleep to one hour. You may be able to reduce that to 30 minutes later if that is enough time for everything to happen. I use 30 minutes myself.
3. Make sure MC is set to start with Windows. In fact, you should have MC Server and MC starting with Windows.
4. Set up a Windows Task Schedule to wake the PC at say 2am everyday. If you are using Task Scheduler to collect EPG data outside MC, run this at 2am rather than at another time during the day.
The above will mean that the PC wakes at 2am, and MC is started. As the PC has nothing to do its sits idle for a little while, then MC will start doing its background processes. If you do an external to MC EPG collection at 2am, the PC will fall idle after that finishes, and then MC will run the background processes. After that finishes and the PC is idle for an hour, it will go to sleep.
Also, do you backup this PC at all? I run two overnight backups on my PC. One for the system drive and one for my data drive, at 2am and 4am respectively. This usually means that there is plenty of time to complete the backups, and plenty of idle time for MC to its job. You may want to implement something similar.
Another thing some people do is wake their PC during the night to have it reboot. That way the PC is rebooted at least once a day, which is usually a good thing to do. It means any installation that requires a reboot to complete will be finished, and it cleans up memory, any running processes and so on. I don't do this with my HTPC at the moment, but it is something I have been thinking about doing. You just need to make sure that the reboot only happens when the PC is idle in case of late night recordings, and that if it can't reboot immediately it wakes, then it will try again later when the PC is idle. There are Task Scheduler settings for all those issues.
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I'll try your suggestions... let me think about it first for awhile.
I do routine backups...
!: Weekly drive image of C:\ to... rotated between E & F.
2: Various folders on drive D:\ to... rotated between E & F.
3: Drive image of D:\ to... rotated between E & F when new E or F drives are installed into rack.
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OK, now I understand why my "delete after 24 hours" recordings often last much longer than that.
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Perhaps JRiver could add a "manual clean up" feature where a User could select to run all the background tasks regardless of what is going on in the foreground. Then if the process impacts audio playback or such, the User would learn this and not use the manual feature. But it may be the case that some Users have a powerful enough computer to run background cleanup process without impacting video/audio playback. Or User may set aside some dedicated maintenance time to run the cleanup routine.
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Perhaps JRiver could add a "manual clean up" feature where a User could select to run all the background tasks regardless of what is going on in the foreground. Then if the process impacts audio playback or such, the User would learn this and not use the manual feature. But it may be the case that some Users have a powerful enough computer to run background cleanup process without impacting video/audio playback. Or User may set aside some dedicated maintenance time to run the cleanup routine.
Good idea; I would use it several times a week as nothing is working right now. For me currently, a manual solution seems to be the only answer.
Last night I rebooted the computer, stopped all MC playing & went to bed at 11 PM thinking cleanup would delete (during the night) my 4 days of TV recordings. At 1 PM today (14 hours later) there are now FIVE days of TV recordings... NOTHING WAS DELETED >:(
Why is this not working??? Is there an option switch somewhere that needs to be turned on? If so, I can't find it.
This is driving me nuts. I may go back to WMC as I've had so many problems with MC TV.
I really, really want to use MC TV but when I look at WMC & see the simple, clean, straight forward, easy to use, reliable (for me anyway) interface I have to ask myself why am I such a glutton for punishment by staying with MC TV?
I guess it's because I love this program so much (but... there is only so much love to go around & currently does not extend to the TV; hope that changes in the near future :'().
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Sorry, I misspoke yesterday. Playing audio does prevent background TV tasks from being carried out.
Suggest you take another look at that requirement. As MC can record TV while audio is playing (which seems to be a more disk intensive operation than deleting the recordings) I see no reason why we can't have TV recording cleanup carried out at the same time as audio is playing as playing audio has a fairly low disk activity.
Maybe TV recording deletions need to be a separate function from all the other clean up operations just to split the load around a little.
On the other hand, disk clean up and EPG data loading are both in the same category. If your EPG data are updated, that means MC did find a quiet time to carry out background tasks.
I get a constant 12 days of MS Rovi EPG all the time so I guess background TV tasks are being carried out. Why is my TV recording cleanup not working??? Is there an option switch somewhere that needs to be turned on? If so, I can't find it.
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I get a constant 12 days of MS Rovi EPG all the time so I guess background TV tasks are being carried out. Why is my TV recording cleanup not working??? Is there an option switch somewhere that needs to be turned on? If so, I can't find it.
That is puzzling. There is not any option for this except your recording rules. Also, I think someone already mentioned this, are your disk access rights set correctly (your user account is allowed to delete files)?
Does the situation change if you run MC as administrator?
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That is puzzling. There is not any option for this except your recording rules. Also, I think someone already mentioned this, are your disk access rights set correctly (your user account is allowed to delete files)?
I've had no problems manually deleting files.
Does the situation change if you run MC as administrator?
I am the administrator. My PC is a single stand-a-lone desktop that Windows automatically set me up as Admin.
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I've had no problems manually deleting files.
I am the administrator. My PC is a single stand-a-lone desktop that Windows automatically set me up as Admin.
I could be wrong on this, but I believe there is a difference between you being an administrator and running MC as an administrator. I think normally an application is run without the administrator rights, even if it is run in the account of an administrator (i.e. you). So you being able to manually delete files does not necessarily translate into MC being able to delete files.
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I could be wrong on this, but I believe there is a difference between you being an administrator and running MC as an administrator. I think normally an application is run without the administrator rights, even if it is run in the account of an administrator (i.e. you). So you being able to manually delete files does not necessarily translate into MC being able to delete files.
THAT may be the ultimate answer :o
Glad you brought it up, I have been wondering about that also. I know I don't have FULL administration rights (even though I'm listed as the Admin under Windows User Accounts). One or two other programs over the last couple of years had kept bugging me with pop-ups suggesting I "Run As Administrator" & asking if I want to do so; I would click "Yes" & they would then do their thing (like let me make major changes to the program).
So, I'm not sure just how to get FULL Admin rights to MC. Using Google Search, I've looked at how to get FULL Admin rights to all of Windows but am confused if that may open me up to possible hack attacks (searching that subject returns conflicting results).
Could you help me on this?
THANKS.
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Maybe this article/tutorial will help http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/3587-owner-files-folders-change-windows-10-a.html
and http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2969-administrator-account-enable-disable-windows-10-a.html
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I suggested running MC as administrator only as a test. In general you do not need to do this. To run MC21 as administrator, right click MC21 desktop icon and select "Run as administrator".
You should check the security settings of the drive on which TV recordings are written.
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Maybe this article/tutorial will help http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/3587-owner-files-folders-change-windows-10-a.html
and http://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2969-administrator-account-enable-disable-windows-10-a.html
Ah... THANKS. I'll read it all.
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I suggested running MC as administrator only as a test. In general you do not need to do this. To run MC21 as administrator, right click MC21 desktop icon and select "Run as administrator".
Yes, I've already done that this morning at around 6:30 AM with MC loaded but nothing playing. It is now 9:25 AM (almost 3 hours later) and still no file deletions. It may be a bit soon as EPG may have recently updated & 8 hours have not passed for the next cleanup. I'll wait a while longer & see what happens.
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Slightly Off Topic...
When you guys do a Quote in the Forum you get something like this...
Quote from: DocLotus on Yesterday at 06:52:31 pm
I've had no problems manually deleting files.
When I do a quote all I get is...
Quote
I suggested running MC as administrator only as a test. In general you do not need to do this. To run MC21 as administrator, right click MC21 desktop icon and select "Run as administrator".
How do I make my quotes include the person, date & time like yours does?
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Click on the button that says "Quote" at the top right of your message, then edit out what you don't want. Reply after the second quote tag.
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Click on the button that says "Quote" at the top right of your message, then edit out what you don't want. Reply after the second quote tag.
That's exactly what I do but mine never includes the person, date & time like yours does.
I usually copy & paste between the "" but this time I'm trying a drag & drop method to see if it makes any difference.
Here goes.
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Well, so much for that... no difference.
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Email me a log.
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How do I attach the Log file to your email?
When I go to your "Send this member a personal message." there is no place to attach a file.
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How do I attach the Log file to your email?
When I go to your "Send this member a personal message." there is no place to attach a file.
Sorry, email to
yaobing at jriver dot com
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Email sent.
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Email sent.
Unfortunately the log covers approximately 2.5 hours of MC session. Currently MC does not remember cleanup time across sessions (I consider it a bug and will fix it soon). So you have to run it for more than 8 hours in order to see possible clean up actions. Please let it run for more than 8 hours and then send another log. Thanks.
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Thanks; will do.
I'll let it run (with no playback) overnight.
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Currently MC does not remember cleanup time across sessions (I consider it a bug and will fix it soon). So you have to run it for more than 8 hours in order to see possible clean up actions.
Well that little snippet of information has large implications. I assume that MC running on a PC that sleeps or hibernates would still be running the one session, and that MC uses the clock to work out if eight hours has passed, initiating a clean-up. Is that correct?
PS: DocLotus, if you click the blue word "Quote" in the top right of a post BEFORE clicking reply, the forum software will include the whole text of a quote in your reply. The "Quote" function both quotes the text and starts a reply. AFTER clicking reply you can click blue "Insert Quote" at the top right each post in the history below the reply box to insert the full text of that post. This is what it looks like when you quote text, before posting.
[quote author=Yaobing link=topic=100329.msg696545#msg696545 date=1443392392]
Currently MC does not remember cleanup time across sessions (I consider it a bug and will fix it soon). So you have to run it for more than 8 hours in order to see possible clean up actions.[/quote]
See http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/Posting#Quoting_a_Post and have a look around the Simple Machine help pages, although some of them appear broken. There is a reference for BBCodes here: http://www.bbcode.org/reference.php
PPS: I put the quote information into a Code box above so that the formatting is visible, and the forum software won't process the text as a quote. You can do this with the [code] tag.
[/code]
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PS: DocLotus, if you click the blue word "Quote" in the top right of a post BEFORE clicking reply, the forum software will include the whole text of a quote in your reply. The "Quote" function both quotes the text and starts a reply. AFTER clicking reply you can click blue "Insert Quote" at the top right each post in the history below the reply box to insert the full text of that post. This is what it looks like when you quote text, before posting.
TESTING
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Roderick; I LOVE YOU ::)
IT WORKS, thanks.
Doc
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Email me a log.
New log with several hours of constant run time sent.
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The new log still does not show TV recording cleanup code being executed.
Currently MC does not remember cleanup time across sessions (I consider it a bug and will fix it soon).
Well, I had a look at this and now I do not think it is much of a bug anymore.
The reason is that we do call into the cleanup routine at MC shutdown time! So no matter how long or how short MC has been run, the TV recording clean up is (SHOULD BE) carried out.
So if you keep MC running for a long time, MC checks old TV recordings every 8 hours if it finds quiet time. Otherwise it does it once at shutdown. So when you run MC again next time, it is a completely fresh start. There is no need to save that 8 hour timer status for the next session.
New log with several hours of constant run time sent.
Doc, for future, please use this method to send logs:
Help > Logging, and follow the three steps outlined on that window. After you click "Report problem...", a package of two logs, one for current session and one for the session just before the current, will be packed into a zip file (along with system info) onto your desktop. Email the zip file. The only time you should consider sending only individual log file is when you find the zip file too large for email attachment.
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Doc,
Are you running any "security" software that could be denying access to MC?
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Doc,
Are you running any "security" software that could be denying access to MC?
None, only Windows Defender & I have MC set to be ignored as per the instructions in one of the threads that we talked about before.
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Doc, for future, please use this method to send logs:
Help > Logging, and follow the three steps outlined on that window. After you click "Report problem...", a package of two logs, one for current session and one for the session just before the current, will be packed into a zip file (along with system info) onto your desktop. Email the zip file. The only time you should consider sending only individual log file is when you find the zip file too large for email attachment.
Was wondering about that myself; will do next time... thanks.
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The new log still does not show TV recording cleanup code being executed.
As we talked about much earlier in this thread I have suspected for some time that all my tuners are not being released. As I understand that can lead to no TV cleanup taking place... right? The reason I suspect that is because sometimes there will be only one or two of my four tuners in use when I try to use another one I will often see the dreaded TSRrender error message.
When I had only one ATI tuner the cleanup operation was being done. This all started when I replaced the single ATI tuner with two Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2255 Dual Tuner PCIE. Is it possible that MC TV cleanup may not be working with the 2255 dual tuner?
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The tuners would also have prevented EPG from updating, which is not the case.
MC did enter the block of code that would check both EPG updating and program cleanup. The former was done. The only thing that would prevent the cleanup code from being executed, after EPG loading is done, would be either a faulty timer (which is unlikely) or there are other non-TV things going on.
I added some additional logging for the next build.
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The tuners would also have prevented EPG from updating, which is not the case.
MC did enter the block of code that would check both EPG updating and program cleanup. The former was done. The only thing that would prevent the cleanup code from being executed, after EPG loading is done, would be either a faulty timer (which is unlikely) or there are other non-TV things going on.
I added some additional logging for the next build.
Thanks.
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The reason is that we do call into the cleanup routine at MC shutdown time!
Yaobing, does this mean that the cleanup routine is run if MC is running and Windows is shutdown?
Or would it require MC to be shutdown prior to shutting down Windows.
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Yaobing, does this mean that the cleanup routine is run if MC is running and Windows is shutdown?
Or would it require MC to be shutdown prior to shutting down Windows.
I don't know. My guess is if Windows shuts down, it should give MC chance to close first, so it should work. We can try it. The log entries one would look for (in "Previous Log.txt") are "Running shutdown settings" and "CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms" etc.
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I set the log to run, then restarted Windows, which naturally first shuts down Windows.
Neither of those terms, or logical parts of them, appeared in either the "Log.txt" or "Previous Log.txt".
If I shut down MC21, but left the MC Server running, then both terms appeared in the "Log.txt" produced. There was no "Previous Log.txt" in this case. The log showed that recordings were being evaluated for deletion, although it didn't find any in this case.
So an automated overnight reboot of a MC PC wouldn't trigger a cleanup. Shame, as that would have been easy using Windows Task Scheduler.
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So if someone leaves MC running all the time, allowing it to sleep, but reboots occasionally, as I do on my HTPC, the cleanup won't be triggered by the Windows shutdown, but should be triggered by the eight hour wait period.
If someone runs MC when required, and shuts it down at other times, the cleanup should be triggered even if the eight hour wait has not expired.
If someone always plays music or records or plays live TV all the time, and then shuts down the PC, which is DocLoutus' first modus operandi, then the cleanup won't be triggered.
But what if someone always plays music or records or plays live TV all the time, and then hibernates the PC, which is DocLoutus' second modus operandi, will the cleanup be triggered?
It should work the same as when the PC sleeps, but needs testing. I won't be testing this last one. Over to you DocLotus.
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If someone runs MC when required, and shuts it down at other times, the cleanup should be triggered even if the eight hour wait has not expired.
If someone always plays music or records or plays live TV all the time, and then shuts down the PC, which is DocLoutus' first modus operandi, then the cleanup won't be triggered.
But what if someone always plays music or records or plays live TV all the time, and then hibernates the PC, which is DocLoutus' second modus operandi, will the cleanup be triggered?
It should work the same as when the PC sleeps, but needs testing. I won't be testing this last one. Over to you DocLotus.
I'm not getting cleanup on any of the above three scenarios, my TV recording list just keeps getting bigger & bigger
I'm hoping the additional logging that Yaobing is including in the next version of MC will tell us exactly what is wrong with my MC.
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I'm not getting cleanup on any of the above three scenarios,
You aren't getting the cleanup process even in the second scenario? This one:
If someone runs MC when required, and shuts it down at other times, the cleanup should be triggered even if the eight hour wait has not expired.
In that scenario "shuts it down" means just shutting down MC, not the whole PC. Did you run a test and log it, then check if the terms Yaobing mentioned turn up?
The log entries one would look for (in "Previous Log.txt") are "Running shutdown settings" and "CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms" etc.
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You aren't getting the cleanup process even in the second scenario? This one:
In that scenario "shuts it down" means just shutting down MC, not the whole PC. Did you run a test and log it, then check if the terms Yaobing mentioned turn up?
No cleanup of old TV recordings. Yes the cleanup process is running as the EPG is updated every day (always shows 12 full days of descriptions).
I did an MC shutdown (EXIT) & went out to lunch with Windows still running. Came back about an hour later & no TV recording cleanup. Even after 16 or more hours of MC loaded (with nothing playing) there was no TV recording cleanup.
Yaobing has my logs & he can see the cleanup process running (EPG updates) but there is no TV recording cleanup so he has added some more detailed code to the logging for the next version of MC to try to see what exactly is going on (or not going on).
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When you closed MC, did you closed MC entirely, or just the GUI part (and leaving Media Server running)?
So far, the logs you sent me previously showed that timered cleanup was not happening, even though EPG loading happened. My added logging (for a future build) will attempt to get a little more info about that. However, I have not seen a log that shows a shutdown process. So please send me a log that includes MC being shutdown.
You can shutdown MC. Then restart it and immediately go to Help > Logging and press "Report problem...".
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When you closed MC, did you closed MC entirely, or just the GUI part (and leaving Media Server running)?
I did... File/Exit.
It then shows a small pop-up dialog saying "Updating database".
I checked Windows Task Manager & "MediaCenter Services" were gone.
Does that do it?
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You can shutdown MC. Then restart it and immediately go to Help > Logging and press "Report problem...".
Done, Log sent.
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Your log shows that upon exiting, MC did delete recently recorded shows.
13702188: 7856: TV: CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms: Checking 53 recorded programs for deletion
13702188: 7856: TV: CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms: 0 recordings found to have episode based deletion attribute
13702188: 7856: TV: CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms: Found 3 programs to delete
Two of the three recordings were news, recorded yesterday. The third one I can not determine the time it was recorded because the file name does not have date on it. I assume it was also recorded yesterday.
So, this part is definitely working. There is a chance that deleting a jtv recording may not be complete - some files may be left on your disk. This is a long standing bug that I still have not found a solution for. You can check whether the recordings that were made yesterday are still on your drive, or partially.
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If you have older shows that are not being deleted, you need to know that you must still have the recording rules that those shows were recorded with. When MC can not find a matching recording rule, it will leave a recording alone.
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So the message here is don't delete One Time recording rules until after the associate program has also been deleted.
Also Yaobing, once all programs associated with a rule are deleted, isn't it correct that the One Time recording rule will also be deleted in a clean-up?
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Also Yaobing, once all programs associated with a rule are deleted, isn't it correct that the One Time recording rule will also be deleted in a clean-up?
No. We did not make it that smart. The program-based one time recording rules are remove a long time (more than a year) after they are created. You are right. It can be as simple as checking 1. the rule has expired, and 2. the recording has already been deleted.
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Hmmm... I have not made any changes to my recording rules in several days yet there are still 16 recordings from yesterday (9-28) on both my HD & in MC's TV Recordings screen. In fact, there are a total of 43 recordings going back to 9-21 that have not been deleted are showing up on both screens.
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What does the Type "Cancelled" in the following JPEG mean? Are they the deleted TV recordings?
I have seen that show up only seldom (it has been over a week since last time).
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What does the Type "Cancelled" in the following JPEG mean? Are they the deleted TV recordings?
No, those are recordings that you have cancelled. Once a recording rule is created, it can be cancelled, through several methods.
The fact that they have been cancelled isn't the strange thing. The really strange thing is that they don't have a Name, and all but one don't have any other details. How did you do that???
PS: I would probably just delete all those cancelled recordings to clean out the recording rules database, and hope that fixes some of your other issues.
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No, those are recordings that you have cancelled. Once a recording rule is created, it can be cancelled, through several methods.
Thanks for the info.
The fact that they have been cancelled isn't the strange thing. The really strange thing is that they don't have a Name, and all but one don't have any other details. How did you do that???
I did nothing; they just showed up this afternoon right after I did a "File/Exit" & re-loaded MC (just before I sent the latest Log to Yaobing). Each time they do show up they always look as you have seen them (no name, etc).
PS: I would probably just delete all those cancelled recordings to clean out the recording rules database, and hope that fixes some of your other issues.
That's exactly what I do every time they show up otherwise they hang around for awhile.
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There is something seriously wrong going on then. Maybe Yaobing can shed some light on what it is.
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There is something seriously wrong going on then. Maybe Yaobing can shed some light on what it is.
No kidding :'(
I'm hoping that the next build of MC (with Yaobing's additional logging code) may shed some light on the issue.
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New Log sent for build 21.0.11.
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This one still shows that MC did clean up recordings upon closing (it did delete one recording that was recorded yesterday).
MC was run for less than an hour, there is no timered cleanup. When you have run MC for more than 8 hours, we may be able to see whether there is anything related to the periodic cleanup.
No old recordings were deleted, most likely due to MC not being able to find any recording rules that correspond to the recordings. Maybe your recording rules database file is corrupt somewhat.
If you look at your hard drive where the recordings are, you should find that recordings of recent days are gone.
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If you look at your hard drive where the recordings are, you should find that recordings of recent days are gone.
Nope... still have recording for every day since Sep 21st.
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The final two images...
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I can delete ALL current recordings if that would help? Maybe that would give us a "clean start"?
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MC was run for less than an hour, there is no timered cleanup. When you have run MC for more than 8 hours, we may be able to see whether there is anything related to the periodic cleanup.
I'm leaving it run for at least 8 hrs now. Will send another Log after 8 hrs are up.
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Had a "Light Bulb Goes off in my Head moment".
Could this be the problem?...
I record several shows with similar names such as...
1: KPRC Channel Two News at 4.
2: KPRC Channel Two News at 5.
3: KPRC Channel Two News at 10.
4: NCIS.
5: NCIS New Orleans.
6: NCIS Los Angeles.
As that would normally require 6 separate Recording Rules, I discovered that simply creating 2 rules (one for KPRC Channel Two News, & one simply for NCIS that ALL KPRC Channel Two News & NCIS programs would record correctly.
Upon looking at the files on my HD I believe "simplifying" the rules may be the problem as the actual HD files are not listed as simply KPRC Channel Two News but as...
1: KPRC Channel Two News at 4.
2: KPRC Channel Two News at 5.
3: KPRC Channel Two News at 10.
I suspect as the file names on disk do not match up with the Rules Name that is why it is not being cleaned. The few that have been cleaned did match up correctly.
Does that make sense? Can that be the problem?.
If so, the rules are too stringent as to not allow a little "leeway" in the naming. That means that each Rule must be an EXACT MATCH in order to work... a little too "you better cross your T's & dot your I's" for me.
Maybe the Rules naming needs to be a little "looser"?
What do you think :o
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Having a very struck Rule naming convention (as it currently exist) means that shows like PBS Nature series will have to have many Rules (almost one for each episode) as PBS often adds a little to the name for each episode. This mean that a PBS series will almost never match up & won't get cleaned. THAT is a problem :'(
It needs to also work with something as simple as "Nature" in order to record all the Nature series.
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I am not sure if the rule is the problem, but it seems unlikely.
Anyway, the log you sent this morning clearly shows that this file:
F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recording\KPRC Channel 2 News at Noon 2015-09-30\KPRC Channel 2 News at Noon 2015-09-30.jtv
was deleted. But I do see it (its folder anyway) listed on one of the screenshots.
There are two possibilities - either the files are deleted, but the deletion is incomplete, or deletion failed completely. I mentioned the cause of the first case in a previous post. You can test this in two ways. Firstly look for the recordings that are supposed to have been deleted in MC's library. If you find it, see if you still can play it. When a recording is deleted by MC, it should not remain in the library. Secondly, open the folder of each recording and see how many files are there. A complete set of files (i.e. nothing deleted) should include a .jtv file, a .jta file, a .jts file, a couple of .jti and .jtf files, a .jtr file, and a whole bunch of .jta.cnk and .jts.cnk files.
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I am not sure if the rule is the problem, but it seems unlikely.
Anyway, the log you sent this morning clearly shows that this file:
F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recording\KPRC Channel 2 News at Noon 2015-09-30\KPRC Channel 2 News at Noon 2015-09-30.jtv
was deleted. But I do see it (its folder anyway) listed on one of the screenshots.
There are two possibilities - either the files are deleted, but the deletion is incomplete, or deletion failed completely. I mentioned the cause of the first case in a previous post. You can test this in two ways. Firstly look for the recordings that are supposed to have been deleted in MC's library. If you find it, see if you still can play it. When a recording is deleted by MC, it should not remain in the library. Secondly, open the folder of each recording and see how many files are there. A complete set of files (i.e. nothing deleted) should include a .jtv file, a .jta file, a .jts file, a couple of .jti and .jtf files, a .jtr file, and a whole bunch of .jta.cnk and .jts.cnk files.
All the files are still there AND it plays, so clearly it was NOT cleaned or deleted.
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So your log says that the program was deleted but it wasn't.
This is starting to look very odd. Something else is happening. Drive problem or security software or something like that.
You mentioned September 21. Did anything change on your machine around that time?
What is the drive? Sorry if you said above.
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So your log says that the program was deleted but it wasn't.
This is starting to look very odd. Something else is happening. Drive problem or security software or something like that.
You mentioned September 21. Did anything change on your machine around that time?
What is the drive? Sorry if you said above.
Only using default Defender & it is set to ignore all MC files as per one of the threads outlining how to set it up.
The drives are new WD 2 TB. Have had no problems with them in fact use them as backup drives with Macrium Reflect Backup program which won't back up to a bad drive as it will report an error of which I've got none so far.
Sep 21st is only how far back the TV Recordings go. All recording after 1 day should be deleted as that is how I have all my Rules set up. So all recordings from Sep 21 through Sep 29 should be gone but are not.
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Is your F: drive set to allow everyone (not just administrators) full control?
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Is your F: drive set to allow everyone (not just administrators) full control?
It was not. I just changed it to allow Everyone to share with Full control.
How did that happen?
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The drives are new WD 2 TB. Have had no problems with them in fact use them as backup drives with Macrium Reflect Backup
Please explain more. It could be what we're looking for.
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Please explain more. It could be what we're looking for.
I have 4 HD's...
1: SSD... Drive C... Windows & programs (back up as drive image TO either E or F as need).
2: SSD... Drive D... Docs, Images, Audio/Video (back up folders TO either E or F as need).
3: WD 2 TB Green HD... Drive E... Back up C or D TO this drive as need.
4: WD 2 TB Green HD... Drive F... Back up C or D TO this drive as need.
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But what is the backup software doing. It could be controlling the disks in a way that causes problems.
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But what is the backup software doing. It could be controlling the disks in a way that causes problems.
It simply puts individual files on the root.
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I can delete ALL current recordings if that would help? Maybe that would give us a "clean start"?
After that I could re-establish the new TV Recordings on SSD drive D as a test.
What do you think?
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Why not. You never know what you might learn.
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OK, I'll do it.
Give me a few days to set it all up & allow for the TV recordings to build and see if they are removed after one day.
This is exciting ::)
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Meanwhile, I'll send Yaobing my last Log as the computer has been running for almost 8 hours now & he wanted to look at it.
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It simply puts individual files on the root.
Is it possible that the files you're seeing were put there by the backup software?
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Is it possible that the files you're seeing were put there by the backup software?
Well, yes the backup files such as "C Image-Sam 256 SSD6-00-00.mrimg" on the root only of drive F but not any of the TV Recordings under "F:\Video\JRiver\TV Recording"; they were all added by MC (saw them being added over time as TV was being recorded).
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Can the backup software take control of the drive and prevent MC from deleting files?
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Can the backup software take control of the drive and prevent MC from deleting files?
Don't think so as I used to have MS WMC TV recordings on the same drive & never had any problems with WMC deleting old out dated TV Recordings.
But... this is interesting, I just looked at the old, what I always thought was the MS WMC TV Recordings folder on drive "F:\Recorded TV" & found a bunch of new files with today's date on them. I just checked WMC's TV Recording settings & it shows "Nothing Recorded" as it has been saying ever since I started using MC TV.
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But... this is interesting, I just looked at the old, what I always thought was the MS WMC TV Recordings folder on drive "F:\Recorded TV" & found a bunch of new files with today's date on them. I just checked WMC's TV Recording settings & it shows "Nothing Recorded" as it has been saying ever since I started using MC TV.
Just found out what those files are for; they are Temp files created every time MS WMC is opened. I just opened WMC & quickly exited it & two new files were added to the "F:\Recorded TV" folder.
Doubt if they are causing any problems but what do you think?
Are there any known problems still having WMC installed (but not used or recorded) concerning MC TV? Yaobing had previously said in another thread there should be no problems with having WMC still installed as long as the TV Recording was turned off (which mine is). I think that was to keep all TV tuners free for MC TV use.
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Your latest logs shows that four recordings were deleted, all of them were recorded on the day before (sept 30).
11452891: 5844: TV: CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms: Checking 82 recorded programs for deletion
11452891: 5844: TV: CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms: 0 recordings found to have episode based deletion attribute
11452891: 5844: TV: CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms: 4 recordings to be deleted due to their age
11452891: 5844: TV: CTVTunerHelper::CleanupPrograms: Found 4 programs to delete
The deleted files are
The Closer - S2005E02 - About Face
The Best of the Boston Pops 2015-09-30
The Best of the Boston Pops 2015-09-30
KPRC Channel 2 News at 10PM 2015-09-30
The log only lasted a little over 3 hours, from 7:29 pm to 10:40 pm, during which MC was busy recording shows. No quiet time, and not long enough for cleanup timer to go off anyway. So no clean up until you closed MC.
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The log only lasted a little over 3 hours, from 7:29 pm to 10:40 pm, during which MC was busy recording shows. No quiet time, and not long enough for cleanup timer to go off anyway. So no clean up until you closed MC.
Interesting. MC ran for over 8 hours non stop. I Exited MC, waited a couple of minutes & re-loaded MC & ran the Log to send to you. I suspect what happened is the Log may not have been turned on all the time. I do recall turning it off a day or so ago & must have turned it back on later (my bad); sorry :'(.
That brings up a question about logging. Does running the Log have much effect on MC performance? Reason I ask is sometimes TV channel changing runs very smooth & fast while other times it is sluggish & wants to hang on various channels. Was wondering if logging can be a tripping point in performance?
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Interesting. MC ran for over 8 hours non stop. I Exited MC, waited a couple of minutes & re-loaded MC & ran the Log to send to you. I suspect what happened is the Log may not have been turned on all the time. I do recall turning it off a day or so ago & must have turned it back on later (my bad); sorry :'(.
It would not be something done a day or so ago. If you did it, it would have to be sometime yesterday afternoon. You did send in a log early afternoon.
That brings up a question about logging. Does running the Log have much effect on MC performance? Reason I ask is sometimes TV channel changing runs very smooth & fast while other times it is sluggish & wants to hang on various channels. Was wondering if logging can be a tripping point in performance?
In general it depends on how fast your computer is. I tend to think it should not affect channel changing.
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Can the backup software take control of the drive and prevent MC from deleting files?
Interesting you should ask that.
Have used Macrium Reflect for many years & it has always been well behaved (no TSR's running, no taking over other programs, no adding to Explorer or adding tabs to various Windows dialogs & screens or nothing in the Scheduler, although it does have that as an option). In fact I run it manually from some shortcuts that I developed. So it does not even run by itself, it requires me to actually do a back up which I run manually each week. SEE: attached JPEG of backup shortcuts.
HOWEVER... I also have a second backup program that throws all that good stuff to the wind... Acronis True Image Backup 2015. Now... IT does take over a LOT...
1: Adds tabs to various dialogs & screens.
2: Runs in the Scheduler.
3: May run as a TSR (not shure about that).
4: Does backups automatically without my intervention.
So, it MAY be the culprit.
Just to make sure it is not causing the problem I used Revo Uninstaller to completely uninstall Acronis, removed all the Acronis backup files on drive F, Moved all the Macrium Reflect Backup files to drive E, ran Wise Register Cleaner, CCleaner, & Wise Registry Defrag. I will delete all the TV Recordings on drive F, will use Windows Disk Manager to delete the drive F partition, recreate a new partition & format the drive. I will then delete the TV recordings in MC TV so we can start with a clean slate & a clean drive.
Give me a day or two to get this all done & I'll report back with the results.
Cheers ;D
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I just setup a couple of subscriptions to test with. I'll report back in a couple of days if I see any of the same problems.
I setup a subscription to "delete after 1 day", another to "delete after 4 days", and one subscription to "keep at most 3 episodes".
Is it possible that the folder where the TV shows/recordings are stored is "Read-Write only".
I just checked the "default" Recording folder on my testing computer and it says the folder/files where my recordings go is "Read Only". However that didn't stop me from deleting a file just now so I don't know if this means anything.
UPDATE: I ran/made recordings over the past week to test MC's delete function. I had NO issues whatsoever. All of the recordings described above, recorded successfully, and deleted as they were supposed to.
Sorry - it appears that there is no "bug" in the MC programming, so it must be something specific to your computer Doc.
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Is it possible that the folder where the TV shows/recordings are stored is "Read-Write only".
I just checked the "default" Recording folder on my testing computer and it says the folder/files where my recordings go is "Read Only". However that didn't stop me from deleting a file just now so I don't know if this means anything.
Yes, mine is the same. I too can manually delete the files at will. I think we discussed this before (if my memory serves me :-\). I've changed mine to full access but it almost immediately reverts back to Read Only. The old folder on the same drive where I used to store MS WMC TV recordings is the same way so it seems to be normal for these files/folders. The drive itself on all other folders including the Root shows Full Access.
UPDATE: I ran made recordings over the past week to test MC's delete function. I had NO issues whatsoever. All of the recordings described above, recorded successfully, and deleted as they were supposed to.
Sorry - it appears that there is no "bug" in the MC programming, so it must be something specific to your computer Doc.
I'm beginning to agree that it may indeed be something strange in my computer (that is why I'm moving/deleting files & deleting the partition & re-formatting the drive so I can get a freah start on TV Recordings):'(
I should have all that done this afternoon & in a couple of days (after MC adds some TV Recordings to the newly formatted drive) we will know if it resolves the problem... or not.
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IT'S DONE ;D
1: All Macrium Reflect backup files (some 1200 GB of them) moved from drive F to E.
2: All current TV Recordings deleted from drive F.
3: All TV Recording listed in MC deleted.
4: Windows Disk Management... deleted drive F partition.
5: Windows Disk Management... created new single Basic disk partition for drive F.
6: Windows Disk Management... formatted drive F.
7: Windows Disk Management AND disk F Properties... made sure all SHARING was turned on for drive F.
8: Windows Disk Management AND disk F Properties... made sure FULL CONTROL was turned on for all Group User Names for drive F.
9: After exiting Windows Disk Management... looked at drive F Properties to make absolutely sure all the above was still intact... IT IS :P
10: In MC TV Option/General I even changed the "Folder for recorder & time shifting files" name on dive F just in case there was something funky about the old name. I also shorten the path by one folder (2 folder vs. 3)
So, now we have a clean MC & a totally clean drive F with FULL CONTROL & FULL SHARING & nothing else on the drive except MC TV Recordings.
Boy-oh-boy if this doesn't work I'll be totally lost, lost, lost :-[
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Is it possible that the folder where the TV shows/recordings are stored is "Read-Write only".
I just checked the "default" Recording folder on my testing computer and it says the folder/files where my recordings go is "Read Only". However that didn't stop me from deleting a file just now so I don't know if this means anything.
As soon as MC started the very first TV Recording, the new folder "F:\J River\TV Recordings" changed from full control to Read Only. So, this seems to be totally normal.
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It seems to be working.
Last night (Oct 3rd) at around 8:30 PM, I did a File\Exit from MC. MC showed a small "Updating Database" dialog. Upon reloading MC I noticed that all the recorded programs for the previous day (Oct 2nd BEFORE the current time of 8:30 PM) were deleted as they should be. That means that all the files older then 24 hours were deleted correctly.
I still had 4 files for Oct 2nd that were not deleted as all 4 were not yet 24 hours old (8:45 PM, 9:00 PM, 9:00 PM & 11:25 PM). So, I thought I would simply wait until after 9:00 PM & File\Exit MC again & the 8:45 & 9:00 PM files would be deleted as at that time they would be more than 24 hours old. That did not work; no small "Updating Database" dialog show up.
This morning (Oct 4th) all 4 remaining files for Oct 2nd are still there.
I also noticed that my carefull setup of File Sharing was no more... it had reverted once again to non sharing... BUMMER :P
I've reestablished Full Control in File Sharing which seems to be (for now anyway) holding.
I've noticed that after deleting the new disk partition & formatting the drive MC TV Recordings was the ONLY folder on the drive as expected. Later last night I brought up MS WMC & quickly exited it. WMC had added a temp folder to the same drive F as MC TV Recordings are on. I'm not sure if loading WMC was what turned off the Sharing for MC TV Recordings or not. After reestablishing Full Control in File Sharing I can now view WMC & File Sharing stays at Full Control.
My questions are...
1: Can having BOTH WMC AND MC TV Recordings on the same drive cause problems?
2: Does 24 hours (or 8 hours) have to pass before doing a File\Exit & reloading of MC will delete the old TV Recordings? As it is now I can File\Exit & reload MC & the little "Updating Database" dialog does not show up & the remaining 4 TV Recordings for Oct 2nd are NOT getting deleted.
3: Can the clean up process be improved upon to run EVERY TIME MC is File\Exited & reloaded? This would allow the user to run the cleanup process at will (which does not seem to be currently doable)?
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WMC could be the culprit. Even if you do not run WMC manually, it has a service that runs automatically.
You can exit MC at any time. Any time you exit MC, it checks to see if there are any recorded shows that need to be deleted. It is has not been 24 hours (or what ever number of days) since a recording was recorded, it will not be deleted. In other words, it deletes files are are due to be deleted, not others.
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I still had 4 files for Oct 2nd that were not deleted as all 4 were not yet 24 hours old (8:45 PM, 9:00 PM, 9:00 PM & 11:25 PM). So, I thought I would simply wait until after 9:00 PM & File\Exit MC again & the 8:45 & 9:00 PM files would be deleted as at that time they would be more than 24 hours old. That did not work; no small "Updating Database" dialog show up.
This morning (Oct 4th) all 4 remaining files for Oct 2nd are still there.
So why are the 4 remaining files for the Oct 2nd not deleted?
Also, can this be implemented in a future build?
3: Can the clean up process be improved upon to run EVERY TIME MC is File\Exited & reloaded (without waiting for the 8 hour timer)? This would allow the user to run the cleanup process at will (which does not seem to be currently doable)?
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WMC could be the culprit. Even if you do not run WMC manually, it has a server that runs automatically.ted, not others.
Yes... that's been bothering me for a long time.
I'm currently in the process of removing MS WMC, via upgrading to Windows 10; sort of a "Kill two birds with one stone" (so to speak).
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Also, can this be implemented in a future build?
3: Can the clean up process be improved upon to run EVERY TIME MC is File\Exited & reloaded (without waiting for the 8 hour timer)? This would allow the user to run the cleanup process at will (which does not seem to be currently doable)?
It is already done, when MC is being closed. It will not do anything when MC is reloaded, until 8 hours later. The user can do clean up at will simply by closing MC.
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It is already done, when MC is being closed. It will not do anything when MC is reloaded, until 8 hours later.
I'm confused (as usual :-\) . Doesn't that mean the user has to wait 8 hours before the cleanup actually happens?
The user can do clean up at will simply by closing MC.
At will, right now & not in 8 hours? That's what I'm wanting & does not seem to be currently implemented.
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It is simple Doc.
1. Every time you close MC, the cleanup is initiated. If MC isn't actually cleaning up recorded TV program files when you close it, something else is wrong. Rule deleted or no rule matches, sufficient time hasn't passed, the recorded program file has been moved to a new location, MC can't delete the file due to OS restrictions, firewall is interfering, etc.
2. Whenever you start MC, eight hours has to pass before a cleanup is attempted. All other conditions also need to be met before a cleanup will actually run.
3. If MC is left on all the time, it will wait eight hours after the last cleanup before it attempts another one. All other conditions also need to be met before a cleanup will actually run.
The other conditions are no music playing, no tuner in use, etc. that have been mentioned previously. That is, MC must have some "quiet time" to initiate a cleanup.
From previous discussions, my understanding is also that if MC is due to do a cleanup, as eight hours have passed, but it can't due to one of the other conditions not being met, such as a tuner in use, then MC will wait until there is quiet time, and do the cleanup then. For example, if eight hours pass, but a TV channel is playing until ten hours are up, MC will do the cleanup when the TV channel is stopped, and the other criteria are met. This is why I always press the stop button in MC at the end of the day, rather than just turn off the receiver/amplifier, TV, etc. so MC isn't playing something that can't be heard.
Is all the above correct Yaobing? Particularly the comment on moving recorded files? I don't know if that actually stops a cleanup of the program.
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It is simple Doc.
1. Every time you close MC, the cleanup is initiated. If MC isn't actually cleaning up recorded TV program files when you close it, something else is wrong. Rule deleted or no rule matches, sufficient time hasn't passed, the recorded program file has been moved to a new location, MC can't delete the file due to OS restrictions, firewall is interfering, etc.
Will it do a manual cleanup if 8 hours has not passed? In other words will the clean up work if I...
Just booted the PC, loaded MC, File\Exit MC, re-load MC to start the cleanup manually? This is of course assuming that at least 24 hours have passed making the TV Recording eligible for cleanup.
2. Whenever you start MC, eight hours has to pass before a cleanup is attempted. All other conditions also need to be met before a cleanup will actually run.
Understood... an automatic clean up attempt (with no tuners in use) & not a manual File\Exit, reload MC.
3. If MC is left on all the time, it will wait eight hours after the last cleanup before it attempts another one. All other conditions also need to be met before a cleanup will actually run.
Understood... an automatic clean up attempt (with no tuners in use) & not a manual File\Exit, reload MC.
The other conditions are no music playing, no tuner in use, etc. that have been mentioned previously. That is, MC must have some "quiet time" to initiate a cleanup.
Understood... an automatic clean up attempt (with no tuners in use) & not a manual File\Exit, reload MC.
From previous discussions, my understanding is also that if MC is due to do a cleanup, as eight hours have passed, but it can't due to one of the other conditions not being met, such as a tuner in use, then MC will wait until there is quiet time, and do the cleanup then. For example, if eight hours pass, but a TV channel is playing until ten hours are up, MC will do the cleanup when the TV channel is stopped, and the other criteria are met. This is why I always press the stop button in MC at the end of the day, rather than just turn off the receiver/amplifier, TV, etc. so MC isn't playing something that can't be heard.
Understood... an automatic clean up attempt (with no tuners in use) & not a manual File\Exit, reload MC.
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Will it do a manual cleanup if 8 hours has not passed? In other words will the clean up work if I...
Just booted the PC, loaded MC, File\Exit MC, re-load MC to start the cleanup manually? This is of course assuming that at least 24 hours have passed making the TV Recording eligible for cleanup.
Every time you close MC, the cleanup will be initiated.
The cleanup doesn't happen when you re-load MC. It happens when you close it. You click File/Exit, the MC User Interface closes, but in the background it is doing the cleanup. You may have noticed that if you close MC and then immediately start it, something goes wrong because MC is still running, and you see the message in the attached image.
That is because when MC closes, it does its cleanup process, and other stuff, like saving the current state if it hasn't been saved already.
Understanding that is important. For example, if you closed MC, then immediately forced Windows to shut down without waiting for applications, or if you just shut down Windows and when it said it was waiting for MC, forced it to close, then MC would not be able to complete its cleanup. It is even possible (Yaobing?) that if a Windows shutdown is started, MC doesn't have the priority to keep Windows open until it finishes its cleanup. In which case the cleanup would be aborted. But I don't think that is the case, as I have seen Windows wait for MC before shutting down many times.
So in your case, if you Exited MC and waited a bit (30 seconds typically) then shut down Windows, MC should have completed its cleanup. However, I think that takes us back to what you were doing at the start of this thread, and programs still weren't being deleted. Something else is wrong.
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Thanks; that make sense.
Now I know to simply File\Exit MC & wait a bit before reloading MC.
I think I understand the process now.
With the exception of a manual cleanup (File\Exit & wait) everything else is an automatic Cleanup attempt (providing all tuners are free, nothing is playing & 8 hours has passed since that last Cleanup & there is actually a cleanup candidate whose time has passed).
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You got it.
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You got it.
YIPPI... :D
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Since doing a Win 10 Pro clean install, TV Cleanup seems to be working correctly (so far).
I had drive F showing on screen (with Directory Opus file manager) & MC on top of the file manger. I did an MC File\Exit which closed down MC leaving the file manager (with drive F showing). Within seconds I saw several of yesterdays files being deleted. All was good ;D
This was with drive F reset back to defaults by a new partition & new format which reset Sharing to Not Shared & Security reset back to partial (depending on the Group or user). That is also how my other 3 drives are defaulted to.
So, to make a long story short it looks like File Sharing is NOT needed for MC to do a cleanup after all.
I'll keep my eye on it for a few days & see how it goes.
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Since doing a Win 10 Pro clean install, TV Cleanup seems to be working correctly (so far).
I'll keep my eye on it for a few days & see how it goes.
That was Oct 6, it is now Oct 9.
MC stumbled a little (it failed to delete 4 recordings that were due for deletion from the 6th). It did however delete all other recordings due for deletion. I made no changes to my Recording Rules of any kind; in fact I never looked at any of them since doing the clean install of Win 10. So, all the recordings were made AND deleted with the same exact Rules (in case anyone should ask).
I just this afternoon manually deleted the 4 recordings from both the hard drive & in MC.
I Exited MC & it cleaned up all other recordings (Updating Database) correctly.
As of now, all looks good, BUT I'm not going to hold my breath until many days pass & I'm finally satisfied that the Cleanup process is indeed working (on my machine that is).
Only question is why did MC not delete the 4 old recordings? That leaves me a little uncertain as to the long-term reliability of MC Cleanup. Hopefully, my concern may be unfounded (but, as the man said... "we will see").
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Keep an eye on it. I check mine every now and then.
If/when you do find a recordings you believe should have been deleted but hasn't been, take a look at the recording rules for them and see if you can find a pattern to the settings in the rules. Maybe once off recordings, or recordings where the rules say "Do not record programs that have been recorded in the past", or something else, or a combination of settings are consistently set when deletions fail.
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Keep an eye on it. I check mine every now and then.
If/when you do find a recordings you believe should have been deleted but hasn't been, take a look at the recording rules for them and see if you can find a pattern to the settings in the rules. Maybe once off recordings, or recordings where the rules say "Do not record programs that have been recorded in the past", or something else, or a combination of settings are consistently set when deletions fail.
Thanks, will do :P