INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 21 for Windows => Topic started by: jesseinsf on October 10, 2015, 02:49:04 am
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First thing is first: I love JRiver Media Center. 2nd: When I see a bug (whether it be a Windows issue or JRiver's issue), I will fight until it is resolved. I don't know coding but I am willing to provide feedback or any log file request it takes to result any issue that is needed.
That being said....I may sound like a broken record but in Windows 10 from now all the way back since the preview versions my explorer.exe freezes when using jriver. But with my recent incident Explorer.exe would not restart and as always the Start menu hesitates to open (if it even does). I've reformatted my computer many times since then with no success to resolving this issue. I have reported this bug in these forums 2 to 3 time and on the Windows feedback many times. I also reported this bug in the NVidia forums a few times. All this bug reporting got me nothing. Maybe it's hardware specific. If so, I will provide my recent hardware that I am using now.
See attached Cpu-z file and GPUz file. :)
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By Explorer, do you mean Internet Explorer or the Windows file manager?
This is likely to be related to a third piece of software on your machine. Antivirus software, for example, or a driver.
Does it happen with just plain vanilla Windows?
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The start menu/button issue is a windows 10 issue in general not an MC issue. I see it on every win 10 machine I've interacted with sooner or later (it takes a while to manifest after boot). It's not limited to nvidia hardware (although that seems to make it manifest faster).
Not sure about the explorer issue.
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Yeah, it's a general Windows 10 Start Menu issue that I run into every few days. They're supposed to push out a new build of Windows 10 next month (if all goes to plan) so hopefully the Start Menu issues will be finally sorted.
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By Explorer, do you mean Internet Explorer or the Windows file manager?
This is likely to be related to a third piece of software on your machine. Antivirus software, for example, or a driver.
Does it happen with just plain vanilla Windows?
It's Windows Explorer (File manager) and I have no antivirus but Windows Defender. My NVidia drivers are also up to date. I'm using the GeForce 960 card with 4GB of dedicated memory. And yes it happens with a fresh windows install (Vanilla Windows).... nothing else installed accept Windows updates and the latest driver updates. The reason why I say Windows Explorer is because if I restart it in task manager it would usually fix the issue.
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Turn off Windows Defender to see if it still happens.
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No Windows Explorer issues here on Windows 10 with and without Media Center 21 running.
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I'm having the same problem. Only happens when I use JRiver Media Center.
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What is your antivirus program? Could you try disabling it?
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What is your antivirus program? Could you try disabling it?
I am using Webroot. I just disabled it. I have to use Media Center for a while before it freezes Explorer. I'll report back and let you know what happens,
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I am using Webroot. I just disabled it. I have to use Media Center for a while before it freezes Explorer. I'll report back and let you know what happens,
That worked. When I disabled Webroot I no longer have the issue. So now what do I do? I don't really want to turn my virus protection off every time I want to listen to music in Media Center. This never happened with windows 8 or 7. It only happens when I use JRiver Media Center 20. Do I need to upgrade to Media Center 21?
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That worked. When I disabled Webroot I no longer have the issue. So now what do I do? I don't really want to turn my virus protection off every time I want to listen to music in Media Center. This never happened with windows 8 or 7. It only happens when I use JRiver Media Center 20. Do I need to upgrade to Media Center 21?
I'm using Vanilla Windows and it happens. It has nothing to do with Webroot, though Webroot could accelerate the issue.
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That worked. When I disabled Webroot I no longer have the issue. So now what do I do? I don't really want to turn my virus protection off every time I want to listen to music in Media Center. This never happened with windows 8 or 7. It only happens when I use JRiver Media Center 20. Do I need to upgrade to Media Center 21?
It's not a problem with MC. It's a problem with your antivirus. Please contact them for help.
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I'm using Vanilla Windows and it happens. It has nothing to do with Webroot, though Webroot could accelerate the issue.
Did you try turning off Windows Defender, as I suggested?
Or this?
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Taming_Windows_Defender
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Did you try turning off Windows Defender, as I suggested?
Or this?
http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Taming_Windows_Defender
I did as you asked and turned off Windows defender completely and it still happened. Resetting Windows file manager (Explorer.exe) through task manger fixes it until I started MC again.
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I'm sorry. I don't know. I don't think this is an MC problem:
in Windows 10 from now all the way back since the preview versions my explorer.exe freezes when using jriver. But with my recent incident Explorer.exe would not restart and as always the Start menu hesitates to open (if it even does).
If it is a Windows 10 problem, it should be fixed in a future release of Windows 10.
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It's not a problem with MC. It's a problem with your antivirus. Please contact them for help.
Why does it only happen when I'm using JRiver Media Center. I just tried it with itunes and the problem did not occur. It seems like Media Center is part of the problem.
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Why does it only happen when I'm using JRiver Media Center. I just tried it with itunes and the problem did not occur. It seems like Media Center is part of the problem.
My experience has been that any program that uses non-standard window decorations or full-screen exclusive mode is "part of the problem." I get the start button freeze issue after running the steam client or playing video games on machines where JRiver isn't even installed, and with several other prorams too.
The start button issue is well documented around the web, see http://www.thewindowsclub.com/start-menu-does-not-open-windows-10. A search for "Windows 10 start button not working" gives 69 million hits, and if you look through the first page none of them mention JRiver. Here's a long thread looking at the issue (it looks like antivirus can also cause/contribute to it): https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/3fvar4/start_button_not_working_windows_10/
The best guess I've seen is that it's an issue with how windows handles overlays (probably), but it's nothing to do with JRiver.
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Looks like I will be delaying my upgrade to Windows 10 a little longer.
Very helpful post MWillems. Some of the comments on those pages highlight that restarting Windows Explorer fixes the problem, at least temporarily. Not a MC problem based on those comments.
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I'm now using the latest Insiders Build 10565 that came out 2 to 3 days ago and they didn't fix this issue. More people need to complain in the feedback app for Windows 10.
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I've had a bunch of problems related with Win 10, most likely because Dell will not provide updated drivers for a 3 year old laptop (and they will not be getting my money again).
What helped was going through EVERY device in Device manager, right-clicking, and selecting "Update Driver". And then doing it again a week later, etc. (I had a pesky bluetooth problem that was fixed that way).
I expect that many/most component manufacturers will address Win 10 issues via drivers and we will see increased stability over the next few months. (at least I hope so).
Also, I was having problems with MC hanging on close. I tried lots of things, including a re-install, but what finally seems to have fixed it (fingers crossed) was a complete wipe of MC and clean re-install. By complete wipe, I mean that I deleted (actually renamed) all MC directories in "Programs (x86)" and Users/.../appdata.
It now seems to work well, and the only clean up I need to do is restore cover art for my ROIRs (recordings of independent origin).
Good luck!
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The start button issue is well documented around the web, see http://www.thewindowsclub.com/start-menu-does-not-open-windows-10.
Option 4 in the above link:
4] Open an elevated PowerShell window type the following and press Enter:
Get-AppXPackage -AllUsers | Foreach {Add-AppxPackage -DisableDevelopmentMode -Register "$($_.InstallLocation)\AppXManifest.xml"}
Seems to have fixed my issue with the Start button failing to do anything on my Windows 10 MC after a random(?) (a number of days at least) period of time. It was the only option I tried to fix it.
Spike
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Just an update. I had JRiver open all day at home while I went in to work. This is without playing music or videos. Start menu works normally. It only happens when I play a song in exclusive mode or video full screen. I guess video utilizes exclusive mode also.
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Option 4 in the above link:
4] Open an elevated PowerShell window type the following and press Enter:
Get-AppXPackage -AllUsers | Foreach {Add-AppxPackage -DisableDevelopmentMode -Register "$($_.InstallLocation)\AppXManifest.xml"}
Seems to have fixed my issue with the Start button failing to do anything on my Windows 10 MC after a random(?) (a number of days at least) period of time. It was the only option I tried to fix it.
Spoke too soon. My start button stopped working again this morning >:(
Spike
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Hi. I also have experienced this issue. It's been a pain to figure out. At first I thought this was some sort of an driver or corrupt Windows/Windows update issue. And I did fresh Windows 10 installs several times. The same thing happend again and again. The Start Menu stopped working (restart Windows Explorer helps btw to get it back). After last fresh Windows 10 install, I determined to install one by one driver, and one by one program and test carefully after everyone to see when the Start Menu start bugging. And voila, it happend only when JRiver was installed and used (latest version, v21.0.23). The Start Menu stops working only when JRiver is running (listening to music for example). It can happen after a few minutes, or it can happen after hours. Thats randomly. Either it's Windows 10 or JRiver that's causing it, I don't know. But it's 100% for sure, that when JRiver is running, the Start Menu freezes sooner or later.
Now I have been using Fobar2000 for several days, and I have no problem at all with the Start Menu. I tried JRiver again, and after couple of hours, the Start Menu start bugging again.
Have developers investigated this issue? There is defently something that is'nt right. I hope you can figure it out. I can't use JRiver as it is right now.
Thank you in advance.
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If everyone running MC and Win10 had this problem it would probably be easy to pinpoint and fix.
But when only a handful of people have this problem (I see it on my Laptop, but not my other computers) it means, IMO, that the problem is a combination of Win10, MC, and "something else" (a driver, program, anti-virus, etc.) that is unique to the User's computer.
And that "something else" is the hard part to find.
Maybe those of you that have this issue can post a list of your hardware and software to see if you all have a common item/device (other than Win10 and MC). Like is this only affecting Users with NVidia cards?
PS. My laptop (Dell Latitude E6400) has an NVidia graphics chip (Quadro NVS 160 with driver 341.81).
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I have two computers running Windows 10. Both are affected by this.
One is a Toshiba Satellite S55T-B5152 laptop (http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/satellite/s50/S55T-B5152)
Intel i5 5200U
Upgraded to 16GB RAM and a Crucial SSD
15" display at 1920x1080
Windows 10 Home
One is an HP ENVY x360 Convertible 15"
Intel i7 5500U with Nvidia GeForce 930M
16GB RAM and a Crucial SSD
15" display at 1920x1080
Windows 10 Pro
Both came with Windows 8.1
Upgraded to Windows 10 when Windows 10 was released
Upgraded by doing a factory recovery install of Windows 8.1 on the SSD, Running Windows Update to get them all up to date, then doing an upgrade install to Windows 10
Wondering what to do to get at least one of them to behave with JRiver Media Center.
Thinking of rolling the Toshiba back to Windows 8.1 until this is fixed
Or maybe trying a clean install of the November update version of Windows 10 on it
Both laptops have 15" 1920x1080 displays. Default for them is to run at 125% scaling. I've tried running at 100% scaling and still got the Start Menu, Action Center, Explorer crashing problems.
I have a third computer still on Windows 8.1. It's the computer I've been using for JRiver Media Center. I would like to be able to run MC on the two new laptops, but with this Explorer crashing problem it's not a good experience.
My music files are on a NAS. Not sure if that's an issue. I haven't tried running MC with only local files to see if that is a factor.
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This is probably a Windows problem and not MC.
You could try turning off "Shell Integration" in MC.
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This is probably a Windows problem and not MC.
You could try turning off "Shell Integration" in MC.
It is a Windows problem. It's just that running MC seems to trigger it.
The various Windows help forums have other people with the same problem with the Start Menu not displaying or the Action Center not displaying. Reports going all the way back to pre-release builds of Windows 10. And it's still a problem after the November update. Those people aren't running MC so it's obviously a Windows problem.
I do have shell integration disabled in MC and PMW.
I'll keep playing around to try to figure out how to fix this.
I'm going to try running PMW today as a test and see if the Start Menu problem gets triggered.
I don't know how to trigger the problem other than letting MC play music for several hours.
I'm not running any additional security software other than Windows Defender.
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Some observations from dealing with this.
To get the Start Menu back do the following:
Launch Task Manager and get the Task Manager windows displayed on the desktop
CTRL + SHIFT + right-click anywhere in the taskbar
That brings up a pop-up menu with "Exit Explorer" at the bottom
Exit Explorer
In Task Manger go File >> Run new task, and run "explorer.exe" to relaunch the Start Menu and desktop
One observation is that this problem seem to happen more regularly when playing long tracks. Like classical where tracks can be 20 minutes or longer. My suspicion is that Windows sees the long period of inactivity as idle time and runs some background maintenance while the music is playing. Maybe it's a race condition with one of the background maintenance tasks that is causing this? I have no idea. Just a hunch. After a Start Menu crash I can go to Control Panel >> Security and Maintenance and see that automatic maintenance was run recently before the Start Menu crash while MC was playing.
If this is affected by a background maintenance task is there a way for MC to tell Windows that while it's actively playing music that it's not idle time to do maintenance?
I'm playing to USB DACs using WASAPI exclusive. I haven't tried any other playback methods.
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I've been testing this issue since the last time I posted and everything seems to get a bit better after couple of weeks from the Windows 10 November update. The good thing is I only have to click "Start" once after each time I use Audio or Video "Exclusive Mode" when playing a media file in JRiver. What I'm saying is The Start menu hesitates to show on fist click after each time I play a file that utilizes "Exclusive Mode". You have to play the files for some time before you see this. Easiest way to get these results is to watch a movie, then when the movie has ended and stops....this is when you click the start button.
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This is probably a Windows problem and not MC.
You could try turning off "Shell Integration" in MC.
Hi Jim,
My last comment in this thread stated that this issue was a lot better but, I spoke to soon. Yes it seemed a bit better for just audio playback. Now I've noticed that I cannot open the Start menu after each time I would play a movie. I literally have to restart my PC to get it to work again. I've reported this bug through the Windows Insiders feedback app and it's been almost 6 months. Are you guys sure it's Microsoft's issue? Have you guys been working with Microsoft to help fix this issue in Windows 10?
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For what it's worth, I have 9 Windows 10 boxes now here and at work, including my assorted VMs. They are a mix of AMD and nvidia hardware (and VMs of course), and only 4 of those even have MC installed on them.
* I see the Start button issue on all of them (whether they have MC installed or not). Some do it more frequently than others. My VMs are actually the best behaved, oddly enough.
* I see less frequent, but still more-common-than-pre-10 issues with explorer.exe freezing (while browsing the filesystem, etc). I have found that in these instances, however, that it has always been pretty good at dealing with restarting the shell through Process Explorer or Task Manager without freaking out than Windows 7 or Windows 8 was when that needed to be done. But it does seem to happen more frequently with Windows 10 than it did with 8.1 at least. This, again, applies to all of them.
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I see, but it is such an inconvenience. Things should just work or at least be fix in a timely manner. Now I'm just wondering if developers are working with Microsoft to resolve this issue. To me, it's such a deal breaker. :-[
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* I see the Start button issue on all of them (whether they have MC installed or not). Some do it more frequently than others. My VMs are actually the best behaved, oddly enough.
Agreed on both counts. I see the issue on windows 10 installs where there's no MC at all, and windows seems to be better behaved in a VM than bare metal. That latter observation is sort of a cruel irony as it seems to be true not only with respect to the start menu, windows is just flat out more stable for me when virtualized, which suggests it might be hardware/driver related in some way.
I'm currently typing on a Microsoft Surface Pro 4: my start menu is currently deadlocked (with no involvement from MC whatsoever, I think it was a video game that did it). On their own hardware Microsoft can't prevent this issue from happening. Maybe we should all only run windows virtualized ::)
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and windows seems to be better behaved in a VM than bare metal. That latter observation is sort of a cruel irony as it seems to be true not only with respect to the start menu, windows is just flat out more stable for me when virtualized, which suggests it might be hardware/driver related in some way.
Completely agree. I went through the entire Windows 10 Insider Build process with installs in VMs and honestly had very few troubles. Now, I wasn't using those as my "daily drivers", of course, so you don't get the full in-depth view of the situation, but I did test them regularly when new builds came out, and the quality generally was pretty good (or could be chalked up to constantly shifting beta bug issues).
And then, post-release, I installed it on my main "everyday" work VM on my laptop and used that for the past couple months. That I do use basically every day for real work, and it has been (and continues to be) fine.
Since installing it on five "real" machines in the past month, I've seen way more problems on those. That's wacky-counter to all expectations. It's weird.
On their own hardware Microsoft can't prevent this issue from happening. Maybe we should all only run windows virtualized ::)
Maybe if they hadn't, you know, canned more than half of their QA department (http://www.zdnet.com/article/beyond-12500-former-nokia-employees-who-else-is-microsoft-laying-off/) a few months before the product shipped.
That said, I'm generally happy with Windows 10. I like many things about it better enough than Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 to not seriously consider going back to previous versions on anything. The Start button problem is probably the most pernicious issue I've encountered, but it's minor to fix it (and usually doesn't even require rebooting) so... Meh.
It's buggier than I'm used to from them, but overall it's fine.
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I've got this problem on my Windows10 htpc, basically any fullscreen video longer than 30 minutes or using TheaterView and then playing audio triggers it.
If MC just sits there importing or playing audio from the standard window it seems fine.
I've installed Classic Shell so I can at least still control the machine once it has happened.
I find logging out and back in or restarting the Explorer Process fixes it .
It is a *?*! nuisance though and if it wasn't for the fact that Windows10 has greatly improved latency for using the WDM driver I would ditch it and go back to Win7.
Microsoft should be ashamed of themselves releasing an OS in this day and age where a fundamental part of it (the controlling Start menu) goes awol on a regular basis.
My concern is that inexperienced users will blame JRiver rather than Microsoft as it happens with MC installed rather more than when it isn't.
BTW this isn't an upgrade it is a clean install of Windows10.
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Just wanted to add two observations. I too am experiencing this problem on one machine that runs JRiver 21; the other seems fine.
I would be cautious about the fix which was suggested above involving reinstalling the Win 10 apps - my experience has been that this process does not always work correctly and you may be left with a bunch of mis-installed non-working apps.
Also, I have found on my one problematic machine that installing Windows Classic Shell is an excellent workaround - Win 10's own start menu still goes belly-up after a while, but the Classic Shell start menu keeps working. Which gives me all I need until Microsoft manages to fix the issue.
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For what it's worth, I now believe the Win 10 problem discussed within this thread is, at a minimum, initiated by JRiver. I recently purchased a new top of the line computer to replace an aging Dell Inspiron laptop. The laptop was purchased from Dell as a Win XP machine and upgraded to Win 7 then Win 10. I thought the Win 10 start, explorer and action center problem was due to a problematic Win 10 install on the laptop (I had several significant Win 10 issues with the machine).
The new desktop is a 100% clean install. I've been working on installing and upgrading the new desktop all week. The last program that I installed was JRiver. I had zero problems all week with Win 10 start, explorer, and action center: before installing and using JRiver. Yesterday, I installed JRiver (the install was a piece of cake following the directions on the support site). Everything was fine until I played music, for an extended time, over my DLNA device (PS Audio DS). I went back to my desktop to discover that the start menu, search window and action center were frozen: exact same experience with the laptop.
It can be said that this is a Win 10 problem but I've experience the problem on two separate machines. Further, this problem only occurs when JRiver is loaded and I play music over DLNA for an extended time (don't know the minimum time). Note, playing music over DLNA is 99.9% of my JRiver use (I'll play music directly to my desktop speakers on short, rare occasions).
- JRiver 21.0.23
- Win 10 64
- i7 6700k
- Intel Native Video (no Nvidia card or drivers yet)
- Gigabyte GA-7170X-Gaming 7 mob
- Samsung 950 Pro M.2 SSD
- 16Gb DDR4 3000Mhz memory
- All music files stored on Western Digital Black 1.5TB Hard Drive (mounted internally and connected to mob SATA bus) in FLAC
- I have followed all recommendations to "tame" Windows Defender: Windows Defender is the only anti-virus program installed
Dale
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Maybe you missed what glynor said above.
For what it's worth, I have 9 Windows 10 boxes now here and at work, including my assorted VMs. They are a mix of AMD and nvidia hardware (and VMs of course), and only 4 of those even have MC installed on them.
* I see the Start button issue on all of them (whether they have MC installed or not). Some do it more frequently than others. My VMs are actually the best behaved, oddly enough.
* I see less frequent, but still more-common-than-pre-10 issues with explorer.exe freezing (while browsing the filesystem, etc). I have found that in these instances, however, that it has always been pretty good at dealing with restarting the shell through Process Explorer or Task Manager without freaking out than Windows 7 or Windows 8 was when that needed to be done. But it does seem to happen more frequently with Windows 10 than it did with 8.1 at least. This, again, applies to all of them.
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Thanks for the response. No I read it and understood. I don't experience the problem (ever - on either machine) until music is played using JRiver for an extended period of time. Maybe others, including glynor, experience this problem in other instances; however, I don't.
I don't claim to be anywhere near as experienced as yourself or others who regularly post here. I'm just stating my observations.
P.S.
I promise to stop belaboring the point after this addendum to my post. After a long session of playing music through JRiver last Saturday evening, my computer exhibited the problem of a stuck start button, search, and action center. A simple sign out, sign in process brings everything back. All Sunday long working on the machine (with JRiver loaded but not playing anything) everything was fine. Played music on Sunday evening: came back to my computer to discover a stuck start button, search, and action center.
Finally, my Win 10 machine at work, with lots of engineering software loaded, never exhibits a stuck start button, search or action center. I only reboot or shut the machine off when updating software.
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Probably a hassle but if you could install a virtual machine with windows 10 and run media center on that it would be interesting to observe if there were problems.
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I believe glynor said above that it's better, but still a problem on a virtual machine.
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From reading around, this looks like it can occur any time you are running any application that uses "non-standard" window "forms", which includes MC and lots of other applications (Steam seems to also be a common culprit).
That's pretty clearly a bug in Microsoft's code. I don't think there is anything JRiver can do but hope they fix the bug.
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A simple sign out, sign in process brings everything back.
this has been said before above and in other posts but just putting it out there.
Right click on the start button or anywhere on the task bar=>Task Manager=>Right click on Windows Explorer and choose restart (to reload explorer). Start button works. No need to reboot.
PS - This is definitely not just an issue with JRiver. I have a bunch of programs (eg. Adobe CS -- creative suite for Windows) that can stick the start button. Anytime I stream avi or mkv videos from both Chrome and firefox (other than YouTube), it will also make the start button unresponsive. Definitely a fix from the MS side is required, not from other software designers.
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There are some Win10 shortcuts that may help you get you where you want to be without a working "Start Button"
- Windows Key + X = brings up the start button "right click menu"
- Windows Key + E = opens Windows File Explorer
- Windows Key + i = opens Settings
- Windows key + S = opens Search (then any keyboard "letter" will bring up the App starting with that letter)
Most everything you would need the Start Button for can be accessed without it.
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I appreciate all the responses. The last time I tried ending Windows Explorer (as described above), JRiver crashed and put up a message about being improperly shut down. I therefore just signed out and back in to my user account. I'll try "restarting" Windows Explorer through the Task Manager next time.
Also, with my older laptop, when the start button locked up, it also seemed like CPU intensive processes slowed down (i.e. on-line videos, etc.). Think Windows Explorer, under this condition, utilizes a high than normal percentage of CPU capacity.
Thanks again, Dale
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Right click on the start button or anywhere on the task bar=>Task Manager=>Right click on Windows Explorer and choose restart (to reload explorer). Start button works. No need to reboot.
Yep. That's the way to fix it.
The last time I tried ending Windows Explorer (as described above)
You can't end-task on Windows Explorer. That is the entire Windows shell (everything you see and click on in the UI of Windows itself). Without that, you can't do much (unless you happened to have a PowerShell or CMD window open at the time).
PS - This is definitely not just an issue with JRiver. I have a bunch of programs (eg. Adobe CS -- creative suite for Windows) that can stick the start button.
Yeah. CS5 does it for me on my systems too (way more reliably than anything else, actually).
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I just want to add me to the list of users who have the same problem.
I have 3 win10 machines and all have the same problem, only when the MC has been running for a while.
It has not helped by turning off the shell integration.
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Hello!
I also have same problem with start-menu on 6 computers, windows 10 and MC21
I have also installed windows 10 without MC and I can't say that i have that problem on them.
I run both music and video in MC
//jonas
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You'll have to wait until Microsoft fixes it.
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You'll have to wait until Microsoft fixes it.
The unfortunate truth of that statement, for us loyal JRiver users, is Microsoft may not fix the problem or the fix may be many months away. Oh well, 1st world problems.
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Yeah, I've been waiting for a while. I was hopeful when they released the November update, but that was quickly crushed.
-tm
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I'm reluctantly coming to the conclusion that Vista was better baked than Win 10. (I understand the improvements in Win 10, but these issues should have never been present in a production release).
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The unfortunate truth of that statement, for us loyal JRiver users, is Microsoft may not fix the problem or the fix may be many months away. Oh well, 1st world problems.
Yep, likely months away with the first Redstone build... assuming they fix it. I'm wondering if there's an open bug for this on MS's Insider forums?
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As I said earlier... Perhaps they shouldn't have canned their entire QA department a few months before releasing it... :-\
That's one way to stop getting bug reports, I guess. But not really the best way, I imagine.
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If it is affecting recent Adobe products, in addition to CS5, then I'm sure there are some heavy discussions going on somewhere. Not that Microsoft has ever been particularly inclined to listen to Adobe.
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I'm sure there's discussions on Steam's groups and forums too, not sure.
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I've also had problems with the Start menu crashing; I was silly enough to upgrade to Windows 10 as soon as I could, and concur that there are many programs that are responsible for this happening, especially the Adobe suite.
HOWEVER: since the latest Windows 10 update my right click context menu in the start menu had also stopped working. So I disabled every single context menu entry in CC Cleaner and guess what was causing the problem? JRiver context menus. Now that these have been deleted from the system the start menu right click entries (Control Panel, Programs and features etc.) now work.
Hopefully this can help some people, if not solve the overall problem that Windows 10 has with compatibility. :)
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... I disabled every single context menu entry in CC Cleaner ...
"cleaner" type programs cause a lot of problems.
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There are some Win10 shortcuts that may help you get you where you want to be without a working "Start Button"
- Windows Key + X = brings up the start button "right click menu"
- Windows Key + E = opens Windows File Explorer
- Windows Key + i = opens Settings
- Windows key + S = opens Search (then any keyboard "letter" will bring up the App starting with that letter)
Most everything you would need the Start Button for can be accessed without it.
CountryBumkin, those tips are excellent I use them all, well all except the "then any keyboard "letter" will bring up the App starting with that letter"
I didn't know that one.
It was worth getting up this morning just for that!
btw any news on a forthcoming fix from M$ or are they still blaming user action and burying their heads in the sand?
thanks,
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Just popping in to vent my frustrations regarding Windows 10.
Restarting explorer every day on my server/HTPC to access the start menu has become such a PITA, I ended up just writing a batch file to automate it rather than going through task manager per usual. Of course just pinning a script to the Windows taskbar has apparently become a herculean feat in and of itself. I tried copying the path to my script from the Explorer url bar (as I've done countless times) and selected "Copy address as text"--it ended up only copying the directory name (gee, thanks!). And you can't pin scripts, only shortcuts to cmd.exe that call the script.
So now even after I restart explorer, the first time I try to open the settings window it will briefly show and then close itself, forcing me to reopen it.
This is after a fresh installation (that I was forced to do prior to MS allowing W7 and W8 licenses to activate W10 directly and after a hardware upgrade that deactivated my license, leaving me with no other option but to reformat). The 1511 update also broke about 8 of my store apps (including the store itself) so I had to go through a permissions gauntlet to get access to C:\Program Files\WindowsApps to restore them from a different computer.
I'm honestly done with it. I was done with it a few months ago since I've just stopped using it completely other than for my HTPC/Theater View. As much as I love Theater View I'm a long weekend away from nuking my HTPC/server, installing Fedora, and using Kodi for playback and my 10-foot interface (with MC serving my library to other linux clients and my android devices).
I never had problems like this before with Windows. I used to be a "use whatever works for the task" person, but if asked I would actively dissuade someone from using it nowadays. Injecting Win10 upgrade prompts into Win7 and Win8 via Windows update is unfathomable to me. As great as MC is, it's not worth fighting my OS over.
Let me just say that the day Theater View is working in linux will be a splendid day indeed.
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Restarting explorer every day on my server/HTPC to access the start menu has become such a PITA
I understand if you're done with it, but that is not normal. I've certainly seen the issue, but it is occasional. I'd say I have it happen maybe 2 times per month (on the machine where it happens most frequently).
I think something else is seriously wrong with your installation. Also, this:
The 1511 update also broke about 8 of my store apps (including the store itself) so I had to go through a permissions gauntlet to get access to C:\Program Files\WindowsApps to restore them from a different computer.
I had something similar on one particular installation (which was an upgrade from a clean Windows 8.1 install). I mentioned it in one of the other similar threads on this topic... I went through about two days worth of troubleshooting on it, and never really got it working right, so I ended up nuking it and doing a clean install, and it cleared it up completely (and the issue has never returned).
More evidence that something went wrong in your initial install, I guess.
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Honestly I haven't encountered the issue in a good while now (perhaps a month or so).
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Like BryanC, I still have this happen all of the time, but I think I've narrowed it down some, as I know can provoke the explorer hang on demand.
On my installs, I need to use Chrome, but also have to use Firefox, Safari, IE, to check on websites I work on. I have tons (way too many) pluggins in Chrome that I think are incompatible (ones that find fonts on a page, webdev stuff using flash, pop-up blockers that you can script, java stuff, etc;). I found that removing all Windows store apps helped -- I have no desire to go Windows Store and don't need weather and their news services. I though still that it had some compatibility issues with the programs themselves as I was often having problems with the large creative suite programs from Adobe for PC.
I think now though it is more of a combo of incompatible browser extensions and calling Chrome from within those programs that I though t were causing the hang. If I set firefox to default and don't load any extensions/addons. my CS programs don't lock up explorer when i use "publish to web functions" for example.
Another example, I am constantly looking up stuff via links in JRiver, one site for lyrics has a pop-up that is stopped by an adblocker called uBlock Origin. The PC will still work but, bingo no "start menu". Same with a link to a short film that my nephew worked on that's on a site that if you click on the window without a good blocker, you get all sort of new windows opening up or audio pages telling you how to win at Roulette or get a green card by lottery! So install the blocker and again, Bingo, time to restart explorer. I use Dashlane for password management and paying on some sites using it to fill in my details, can cause this too.
For my HTPC I don't care too much, as I only use 3 or 4 programs on it anyways, and these I have links for in my taskBar. I still can use Explorer, so I just don't use the Start menu much .. right click and I shut it down. On my work station though, until I have to live with it and just keep a lot of programs open so as not to need the "Start Menu"
I should nuke this and do a clean install, but I need these extensions (or the time to figure out the ones to replace, and trying to figure out what not to reinstall just seems like a real lot of work right now for me.)
Not sure if this will help other people, but if using chrome, play with disabling extensions. See if going to certain website that cause pop-ups causes explorer to hang. If so avoid them. When not using edge or IE, disable Microsoft store and their apps. See if that helps some.
Oh by the way there is a distinct possibility I don't know what the hell I'm talking about too ;D
BTW --- what is the easiest way to get a legit copy of Win10. I just went through the free "migration" process, and I heard you have to call Microsoft ... I do not want to do that and wait for 50 minutes while they figure out if I am a "legitimate" user or not. I certainly do not want to use Win8 and reinstalling Win7 and waiting a couple of years like I did between XP and 7 doesn't seem to be an option anymore. Certainly not going to pay for CD version of Win10 now.
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BTW --- what is the easiest way to get a legit copy of Win10. I just went through the free "migration" process, and I heard you have to call Microsoft ... I do not want to do that and wait for 50 minutes while they figure out if I am a "legitimate" user or not.
You don't have to call MS. At least I did not have to. You may have to submit an approval request, but it works online, and it is largely automated, pretty fast, and only in exceptional cases is it referred to a human chat person. Quite painless..
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You don't have to call MS. At least I did not have to. You may have to submit an approval request, but it works online, and it is largely automated, pretty fast, and only in exceptional cases is it referred to a human chat person. Quite painless..
thank you Andrew, good to know. I'll look into that :)
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"cleaner" type programs cause a lot of problems.
Well, in this case CC Cleaner appears to have solved a problem.
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CCleaner isn't like most of them, and is fine, as long as you don't mess with the portions in the Registry section without knowing what you're doing.
It is the rare exception to the rule. Most "registry cleaners" are junk, and provide few more benefits than snake oil (and often trash things along the way).
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CCleaner isn't like most of them, and is fine, as long as you don't mess with the portions in the Registry section without knowing what you're doing.
This. I only use the "Application Paths Issue" portion manually. Anything else is potentially risky.
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I've been having this issue since upgrading to Windows 10 a little over six months ago. I can confirm that it only happens after I open JRiver. I can use my computer three days straight and the start menu is fine. I open JRiver and about 20 minutes later the Start button is hanging. I'm considering just building a separate small server for JRiver only as it's really really frustrating. I've been listening to so much less music lately.
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Another update released today (KB3139907 and KB3140743), on March 1 (no details from MS on what it fixes yet).
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3140743
Maybe this is the fix we've been waiting for.
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KB3140743 - Improved reliability in numerous areas, including OS and Windows Update installation, startup, installing and configuring Windows for the first time, authentication, resuming from hibernation, shutdown, kernel, Start menu, storage, Windows Hello, display modes, Miracast, AppLocker, Internet Explorer 11, Microsoft Edge browser, network connectivity and discovery, and File Explorer.
They post it here:
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-10/update-history-windows-10
-tm
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Another update released today (KB3139907 and KB3140743), on March 1 (no details from MS on what it fixes yet).
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3140743
Maybe this is the fix we've been waiting for.
It did not get better for me, unfortunately... :(
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I just want to add me to the list of users who have the same problem.
I have 3 win10 machines and all have the same problem, only when the MC has been running for a while.
It has not helped by turning off the shell integration.
+1
Windows 10 Start Menu Slow + Search box to freeze
Only when the MC(v18.0.212) has been play music for a while :-\
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+1
Windows 10 Start Menu Slow + Search box to freeze
Only when the MC(v18.0.212) has been play music for a while :-\
Please try MC21.
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21 doesn't change anything regarding this issue.
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It did not get better for me, unfortunately... :(
I've actually seen no further instances since the patch.
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I thought it was gone, too, but then I watched a movie Sunday and it happened.
-tm
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Has anyone reported it to Microsoft? I'll see if I can find similar bug reports (e.g. Steam with the same issue).
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I don't have time to find them now, but I've seen some [long] threads on Microsoft servers about the issue. I remember going through a bunch of suggested fixes that didn't pan out. The usual stuff like sfc and dism as well as a bunch of other random ones e.g. turning off live tiles.
-tm
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Windows 10 Start Menu Slow + Search box to freeze
Just for the avoidance of doubt, I get these problems also on my PC which does NOT have MC running on it. So IMHO the issue has nothing to do with MC. It is a Windows problem pure and simple..
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Was wondering where that was coming from and never thought it had something to do with MC...Good to know as I too am experiencing the issue especially on my HTPC and obviously this is where I use MC the most...
I read above switching to the "Classic" Start menu is a workaround... Is it still the case? Wouldn't mind doing this...
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I read above switching to the "Classic" Start menu is a workaround... Is it still the case? Wouldn't mind doing this...
The 3 workarounds I know are: Install and use Classic Shell (my preferred option), restart the Explorer process using task manager or log out/in on Windows itself to restore the start menu.
Losing the Start Menu occurs 100% of the time I use MC to play videos (even after all the recent updates).
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Right-click on the Start button brings up a usable menu when this happens.
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Just for the avoidance of doubt, I get these problems also on my PC which does NOT have MC running on it. So IMHO the issue has nothing to do with MC. It is a Windows problem pure and simple..
AndrewFG, I couldn't respect your opinion more. You've helped me and many, many others here with your very deep knowledge and skill. However, I've never experienced this problem on any Windows machine other then those running MC. I use a Windows 10 machine eight hours a day at work running loads of engineering software: AutoCAD, Revit, AGi32, BSD SpecLink-e... Never once has this problem happened on my machine at work. At home, it also never happens until I use MC. Happened on my Win 10 laptop and now on my new, top of the line, Win 10 tower but only after using MC. Just my experience.
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It is a Windows problem pure and simple.
This. I haven't experienced this issue in a good while now, but if I do I just restart explorer.exe and it fixes it. Let's hope Redstone fixes this.
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I use a Windows 10 machine eight hours a day at work running loads of engineering software: AutoCAD, Revit, AGi32, BSD SpecLink-e... Never once has this problem happened on my machine at work. At home, it also never happens until I use MC. Happened on my Win 10 laptop and now on my new, top of the line, Win 10 tower but only after using MC. Just my experience.
The primary bug experienced by many users in Windows 10 seems to be triggered when you run any application that uses "non-standard Windows controls" (meaning, something written that doesn't use a standard Windows Forms type of layout). This certainly includes MC, which doesn't use any drawing controls tied to the OS, but that same thing applies to tons of other applications. Some other applications that use nonstandard controls include: Adobe Creative Suite, Steam, Firefox, and Chrome.
However, there does seem to be some variation, as I've:
* Seen the issue intermittently on a wide variety of Windows 10 installs, whether they have MC installed or not. Note: I work in corporate IT and we're testing Windows 10 on a huge variety of platforms. My personal experience probably includes using about 50 instances of W10 that have no copy of MC installed.
* Saw the issue far less frequently on some systems than others. In particular, my vmware VMs seem to be (for whatever reason) quite robust and don't have the issue very frequently. This makes me wonder if particular GPU drivers might be involved.
* Have not seen it happen even one time since I installed the last round of Microsoft patches. I have 4 different w10 boxes I use with MC extremely regularly (including my HTPC which plays video multiple times every day) and it hasn't happened at all in weeks and weeks.
In any case, I understand how you feel, but there is literally nothing JRiver can do about this. They have no control over the explorer.exe process, unless they're injecting code into it or something (like WindowBlinds and other shell replacement applications do), which they're not. Even if MC is triggering the condition (which I do not dispute) they can't fix bugs in other people's code. Microsoft needs to fix this. It is very similar to the situation with bluescreen crashes, I've described before:
So, what is happening is akin to this: The OS has a sign that says "Pull this lever if you want to do X." MC is pulling the lever, but instead of what is expected to happen, the whole building is falling down. Did MC cause the building to fall down? No, whomever designed and implemented the lever did!
That was more about bluescreen crashes, which MC absolutely cannot "cause" (aside from the WDM driver), but it applies pretty much equally here. Windows has a bug. It seems like they're working on fixing it, because it has definitely improved for me and many other users, but it seems like there may be still work to do.
You might also want to check for GPU driver updates (or try rolling back to an older, more stable, version).
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glynor, thanks for your patient and detailed explanation. It makes sense up to the point that for me only MC triggers the error on my machine. I regularly use two of the four examples of nonstand control applications you referenced: Steam and Chrome. It's certainly a first world problem and the trick mentioned here to restart explorer does work.
Thanks again to all the "experts" here. I always learn a great deal!
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I, personally, never saw Steam trigger it, but I saw reports from all over the interwebs about that. I don't use Chrome because Google knows enough about me thanks.
Adobe Creative Suite could trigger it for me every single time on basically every machine I have with Windows 10. But it is gone for me now. I haven't had to restart Explorer in quite some time.
I really think there is some kind of driver interaction going on (or maybe anti-virus or some other "system" level thing). That would explain the variability.
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I'd bet on graphics drivers being the trigger, personally.
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Maybe we should have a Poll going :)
My second PC where I make all my tag changes etc...doesn't seem to have the issue and has an ATI Card....
That would be a first...Having issues with nvidia vs ATI...I had so many issues with ATI cards in the past...But that goes back 10-15 years ago
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I'd bet on graphics drivers being the trigger, personally.
Could be but don't know. My laptop was a Dell Inspiron with an onboard graphics card. I ran my new tower with the built in i7 graphics and now have an GTX970. The problem occurred with all three setups.
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I also have not seen this problem since the last round of MS patches. Keeping my fingers crossed. But: As I and a few others have commented, Windows Classic Shell is a more than acceptable workaround (admittedly it should not be necessary but....)
EDIT: I spoke too soon. Just had it happen on my main server again. Oh well, Classic Shell to the rescue...
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For me, it is weird.
At home, we run Windows 10 and MC 21 on all our computers (apart from 2 machines running Server 2012R2, one of them the JR Media Server).
All computers are a bare disk fresh install of Windows 10 Pro 64 bits (after a first W10 upgrade to license them, coming from 8.1 Pro).
None but one of the machines ever showed the issue.
The HTPC driving the projector allways have the issue after watching a movie. On that machine, only three programs were ever run :
- MC 21
- VLC
- Stereoscopic Player
And with the latest achievement on 3D, MC21 is now the only program that I use on that machine.
That HTPC is an i5-4570, 8GB DDR3, 120GB SSD and ATI HD7700, full Windows updates and latest Crimson.
To me, it is not a big issue, more an annoyance. At the end of a movie session, I just have to remember to shut down the computer from within Theaterview...
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Please try MC21.
21 doesn't change anything regarding this issue.
I have MC 18, MC 20
This seems to be an obvious problem and this is not a unilateral problem. (M$ or MC)
i can't enjoy music, i care about SearchUI.exe crashes again.
Hope someone will fix that soon...... :-\
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I mentioned this before, but at least on my systems, I'll mention it again as this is a big post.
what provokes this (for me)
Using Chrome with an adblocker extension. Stream a video from a site that the adblocker will block something. With or without JRiver. I run all audio through the WDM driver, for info. This will need you to restart win explorer. Stopping your system is not a big deal though just right click on the Windows icon. You don't have to exit via theater view as Rudy was mentioning.
I have had no other issues since the last big MS patch. I'd try not using Chrome to test (or do not load any extensions), and see if that doesn't change something for you guys. If you have Java on your machine, make sure it is running the latest version as this also made the "start" menu un-accessible with an older version I had.
If you are only running JRiver, do not use Chrome as your default browser, an don't have java installed, just ignore me ;)
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When I first bought jriver media in December, I kept having the searchui,photo,weather,shellhost apps..etc basically any app that gets suspended will crash after prolonged periods (an hour or so) of running jriver media. I would have to either restart explorer or just reboot. I have over the last several months done several complete reinstalls to figure this out. I slowly added programs and apps back over the last two weeks and once I got back to jriver media the problem came back. Any help to get this working is greatly appreciated, as I do enjoy jriver media and have been forced back to iTunes. I am using the ASUS Xonar Essence STX audio card with UNi Xonar drivers.
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Try using another sound device if possible. There might be a problem with a driver. I don't know of such a problem with MC.
You could try updating to the latest build from the top of this board.
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I have used the on board motherboard sound device and drivers, and the same thing happens.
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I have also updated to the latest..same thing happens.
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For reference. While running jriver media..after about an hour, the start menu will not open (searchui in a suspended state as it is supposed to be). I have to restart explorer to get it to work again, then it is only a matter time before it will happen all over again. If I uninstall jriver the problem doesn't exist.
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For reference. While running jriver media..after about an hour, the start menu will not open (searchui in a suspended state as it is supposed to be). I have to restart explorer to get it to work again, then it is only a matter time before it will happen all over again. If I uninstall jriver the problem doesn't exist.
im actually seeing this too for a while now, the disappearance of the start menu and also action center... may i ask what your videocard is? because i did blame nvidia :) but i did not yet look into it much, since i start up the few programs i use from the desktop..
:)
gab
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im actually seeing this too for a while now, the disappearance of the start menu and also action center... may i ask what your videocard is? because i did blame nvidia :) but i did not yet look into it much, since i start up the few programs i use from the desktop..
:)
gab
Using nvidia. So I am also using process lasso. I can set it up to restart apps, most importantly searchui and shellhostexperience every 15 minutes (does it in the background..you will not notice it)to help mitigate the problem. For some reason with windows 10, anything that uses the app container for applications does not want to play well with jriver media.
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I've been having all sorts of similar problems which seemed to repeatedly surface after I watched video (using ROHQ).
I have a Nvidia 970m.
What finally seems to have fixed it is a VBIOS update from Nvidia. This is not a driver update, but an update for the bios on your discrete video card/adapter.
I got mine from my laptop manufacturer, but I understand you can request from Nvidia. They include an installation bat file that has to run in an Admin CMD window.
Hope this helps.
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Not sure if this helps but I've been running Classic Shell for my Start button ever since I upgraded to Win 10 about a month or so after it was officially released.
I don't recall having experienced the issue described in this thread. May be entirely unrelated. Or I may be have been lucky but I've got 3 separate Windows machines with MC installed, so I'm not talking about a one off.
Dunno. I'm just glad I missed this bit of M$ aggravation.
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I have the same problem on my HTPC too. I have an AMD ATI video card.
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I don't know that this helps at all, but I had this issue return on two of my systems recently, neither of which turned out to have anything to do with software at all (I believe).
On my laptop's Windows 10 VM, which had previously been pretty robust and this issue was rare (even before Microsoft's fixes), it happened two times last Tuesday. MC is installed in the VM, but was not running at the time, and hadn't been any time recently, nor had Steam or any other common culprit applications. However... Soon thereafter, the whole computer brain hemorrhaged and the filesystem broke itself (HFS+ is a bag of hurt (http://arstechnica.com/apple/2011/07/mac-os-x-10-7/12/#apple-knows)) to the point where the computer wouldn't boot anymore (so I couldn't even get to the VM itself).
It has been fine since I repaired that bit of awesome.
Then, this past weekend, I saw it two times on my main server when I was getting it set back up after my move (https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=104515.0).
In this case, though, I was also having trouble with the whole PC shutting itself down randomly. I finally, on Sunday morning, traced this to a failing video card (I think the card itself was fine, but the caked-on dirt in the fans had shaken itself loose during the moving, and now the card wasn't cooling itself properly anymore). Once I swapped the card out, both the explorer.exe crashes and the sudden shutdowns ceased.
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One other thing (and apologies in advance, if this has been mentioned), but I suggest running SFC /scannow in an admin console window. If there are any errors that couldn't be fixed, you'll need to run DISM and have access to an image. The Microsoft Media Creation tool will *NOT* supply you with an image in the format that DISM needs. If anyone is interested I can supply the MS link for the correct file, when I get online later tonight.
My system is certainly more stable since running DISM and installing the new Nvidia vbios.
NOTE: there is a known bug in SFC re: a file named Opencli.exe (or something similar - maybe it's opencll.exe). It's in the queue to be fixed, but if that is your error, don't worry - no need to fix.
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Has this, perhaps, been fixed in the Windows 10 Anniversary Update?
I have the Anniversary Update installed on one computer. Been playing Media Center 21 today and haven't had any problems with the Start menu. Maybe Microsoft has fixed the problem?
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There are at least two threads on this Microsoft problem, so I'm locking this one.
Please read this thread:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=106170.msg739617#msg739617