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More => Old Versions => Media Center 11 (Development Ended) => Topic started by: Paul_Sinnema on July 16, 2003, 12:21:03 pm

Title: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on July 16, 2003, 12:21:03 pm: Well it's finally so far. I've bought my mediaPC. It's a Compaq D510 SFF, 2 Ghz, 512Mb memory, 200 Gb harddisk and on top of that a beautifull Samsung 21" LCD television. The system works perfect and is very silent.

Time to install MediaCenter and check if it works.

MP3 play beautifully. The new interface for browsing is a beaut.

But now the TV tuner. The scan finds only the following 3 channels:
channel 45
Video Composite
Video SVideo

I've tried several setting (cable, antenne). The country is set to 31 (netherlands).

The cable companies in the Netherlands have their channel a bit off the regular channel frequencies (written down as 31- or 31+), maybe that has something to do with it (the software delivered with the PCTV Pro does find all the channels).

Earlier I tried to use another TV card on another computer with about the same result.

I'm using a Pinnacle PCTV Pro (TV, Radio, VCR) with remote control.

Got any clues?

Paul.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: RMB on July 16, 2003, 01:35:13 pm: It may not be much consolation, but...

I have an ATI card, I have tried automatic scanning for TV channels with several different programs - dedicated PVR type programs, even the software provided with the card (and later upgrades downloaded from the net)

I have never yet found anything which correctly identifies TV channels - mostly I also get

Video Composite
Video SVideo
+ one other - usually not even a real TV picture.

If you configure it manually, then you can get what you want

Good Luck!
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Yaobing on July 16, 2003, 02:19:03 pm: I do not know why this would happen. Your cable company does not require a set-top box, does it?

Quote
The cable companies in the Netherlands have their channel a bit off the regular channel frequencies

Maybe this is the reason. But why would they do that? MC does use fine tuning (through DirectShow), I am not sure if it sufficiently compensate the variation.

You can try RMB's suggestion by adding known channels manually.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on July 17, 2003, 09:50:58 pm: Take a look at the following link, it's the channel overview for UPC in the Netherland for Amsterdam. You can see that 'Nederland 1' has channel 11-.

http://www.upc.nl/frequencies_gm.php?GM=0363

I've tried entering that channel manually, with no result. It's a teadious job.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on July 23, 2003, 11:38:54 pm: HEY!

IS ANYONE TAKING ANY NOTICE OF THIS PROBLEM?

I'm still using the software delivered with the card, because MC9 isn't working. Please give me advise or at least react, to tell that you've taken notice!

Paul :(
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on July 23, 2003, 11:43:46 pm: Quote
I do not know why this would happen. Your cable company does not require a set-top box, does it?

Maybe this is the reason. But why would they do that? MC does use fine tuning (through DirectShow), I am not sure if it sufficiently compensate the variation.

You can try RMB's suggestion by adding known channels manually.

No, we don't need a set-top. Adding the channels manually doesn't do the trick.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on July 23, 2003, 11:45:41 pm: Quote
It may not be much consolation, but...

I have an ATI card, I have tried automatic scanning for TV channels with several different programs - dedicated PVR type programs, even the software provided with the card (and later upgrades downloaded from the net)

I have never yet found anything which correctly identifies TV channels - mostly I also get

Video Composite
Video SVideo
+ one other - usually not even a real TV picture.

If you configure it manually, then you can get what you want

Good Luck!

It looks as if MC9 only does a quick scan of the channels at their exact channel frequency. When I scan with the Pinnacle software, it takes a lot more time to scan, from which I deduct it's scanning all the frequencies!

The whole TV Tuner interface feels as if it was put together in hurry. Boxes aren't designed perfectly. Headers overlapping text's, messages don't always are displayed when they're expected. Settings can be edited but have no effect and are reset on reentering the box. Scanning sometimes finds channels ('found 3 channels') but the next scan finds -1 channels, etc....

I think this part of MC9 could use some attention.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Yaobing on July 24, 2003, 06:43:59 am: It's not that we do not take notice of your reported problem. We do. But you are the first and the only one who reported it. We can not reproduce it. That makes it so much harder to track down. Scanning works fine for other users.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: RMB on July 24, 2003, 09:42:12 am: I have to agree with Paul about the TV interface...

Way back in ancient history, it was announced that there was an intention to do away with the separate bit in the menu tree for TV and web radio. That it would be changed to allow them to be placed in Smartlists etc - just like music.

Well 9.1 has arrived with a much heralded new interface - but has TV and Web radio changed? In the interface not at all, and Web radio has stopped playing lots of stations what use to work (dont know why)

I feel disapointed that promised improvements have not arrived - perhaps MC is reverting back to Music Center with a bit of other stuff that got left in somehow?

Sorry if this is a bit of a whinge, perhaps a (re)statement of intent would be a good idea?
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: JimH on July 24, 2003, 09:50:35 am: Quote
Way back in ancient history, it was announced that there was an intention to do away with the separate bit in the menu tree for TV and web radio. That it would be changed to allow them to be placed in Smartlists etc - just like music.

I don't recall anyone here announcing that.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: RMB on July 26, 2003, 10:20:02 am: JimH - My memory must be getting the better of me - I apologise.

Is there any intention to change the interface for TV & Web Radio?

What I wouild like to suggest is -

TV.
Channels should be bale to be presented in an order specified by the user, not just sorted by name/Channel Number.
In a way similar to Music - Albums&Tracks, they should be able to be arranged by user choice - for example: 'Albums' called Kids TV, 'Documentaries' etc.

Similarly for Web Radio.
At the moment I can search for a Radio station by genre - this coulf be presented as something like an 'Album' with individual stations as 'Tracks'

The important aspect is that they should all be configurable by the individual user, not hardwired - what you want under 'News', I may want split into 'US News', 'UK News' etc

What do you think?
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: jcouch93 on July 26, 2003, 10:48:15 am: I agree with RMB. I don't like how MC sorts the channels after the names have been changed. I don't remember what the channel numbers are after I change them, but it would be nice if they would stay in channel number order! Currently I have my main channels with names and the rest just as the channel. MC has re-sorted them to have the numbers at the top and the named channels at the bottom. Please change this guys.

Also, please see my post on the 9.0.180 thread. These are points about the TV portion of MC.

Thanks
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on August 09, 2003, 11:44:03 pm: Quote
It's not that we do not take notice of your reported problem. We do. But you are the first and the only one who reported it. We can not reproduce it. That makes it so much harder to track down. Scanning works fine for other users.

Somehow I didn't get notified of any replies to this message.

I'm sure any on the Netherland using MC is having the same problems. Am I right guys?

The problem lies in the fact that the frequencies in the Netherland are a bit biside (plus or minus) the normal frequencies.

The sad thing about this is, that I bought MC to be able to create a music/tv/radio/video etc.... centre with 1 remote control and 1 programm.

Now I stuck with 3 programs MC for music, Vision of Pinnacle for TV and Power DVD for DVD's. I had to resort to 'Girder' to program the Pinnalcle Remote control.

It's a mess and I can't change anything about it. you say: If I can't reproduce I can't repair it. I'd be willing to surve as a testsite. I can give you remote access to my personal computer via 'remote desktop' or PC Anywhere if you'd like me to.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Yaobing on August 10, 2003, 04:07:40 pm: Does your card have more than one input connectors for antenna and cable?
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on August 10, 2003, 10:20:36 pm: The card has a connector for the TV Cable, and a connector for the Radio cable. The wall socket provides 2 connections (1 TV, 1 Radio).
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on August 11, 2003, 09:23:37 am: Quote
It's not that we do not take notice of your reported problem. We do. But you are the first and the only one who reported it. We can not reproduce it. That makes it so much harder to track down. Scanning works fine for other users.

I'm getting a little irritated >:( by the fact that I can't do anything else about the situation but wait until somebody takes matters in hand. I've given you a possible angle at the problem (test site). Tell me if this is a workable situation for you!
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Yaobing on August 11, 2003, 01:21:41 pm: Quote

I've given you a possible angle at the problem (test site). Tell me if this is a workable situation for you!

I am not sure whether I will be able to fish out anything that way. Before we go that route, let's do something else first. I will make something for you to test, soon. Please bear with me.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Yaobing on August 12, 2003, 01:20:54 pm: Please test the latest version of MC (9.1.231) and let me know whether it makes any difference.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on August 13, 2003, 06:49:03 am: Quote
Please test the latest version of MC (9.1.231) and let me know whether it makes any difference.

I've installed 9.1.231 and it make no difference! What did you expect to happen? Is there something extra in this version that I can select?

Below the result of a scan for country 31 and set to 'antenna'. With 'cable' nothing is found but the 2 channels 'composite' and 'SVideo'. Channel 40 is not a valid channel (at least the screen turns green, no TV picture).

http://www.paulsinnema.com/images/mc_tv_sel_box

Funny, Yabb chops off the last character of the bitmapname. (<name>.bmp became <name>.bm)
[/size]
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: JimH on August 13, 2003, 07:50:44 am: Quote

I'm getting a little irritated

Paul, if you want to get good help, it would be nice if you could lighten up.

You're using a card we've never said we supported and it looks like Holland is a special case. I believe we have had other similar reports from Holland, but we don't yet know what the problem could be.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Yaobing on August 13, 2003, 08:51:54 am: Quote

I've installed 9.1.231 and it make no difference! What did you expect to happen? Is there something extra in this version that I can select?

No there is nothing extra for you to select. I only changed some code internally. Since it did not make any difference, I will have to search for other possiblilities.

Frankly, if the frequencies in Netherlands are systematically changed, Microsoft should have known it and should have taken it into account.

Have you tried selecting a different country? Many European countries use PAL_B format. For example Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Yaobing on August 13, 2003, 10:16:42 am: To answer the question you asked in another thread in May, about 'TV Tuner Property Page', it is a interface that most TV capture device offer, but MC does not directly use it to tune to the channels. However, MC uses the same programming interface as that dialog does. What happens if you try to tune to a channel using the 'TV Tuner Property Page'?
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on August 13, 2003, 11:56:19 am: Quote

Paul, if you want to get good help, it would be nice if you could lighten up.

You're using a card we've never said we supported and it looks like Holland is a special case. I believe we have had other similar reports from Holland, but we don't yet know what the problem could be.

I'm sorry. It was because I had posted several messages without getting any response. My mistake, I shoud have known you're busy too (like me).

I didn't know you weren't supporting this specific card! In fact, in an earlier discussion I asked what card would be appropriate. I never got any clue that some cards weren't supported, so this comes as a suprise. But I can see you've got an open mind for my specific problem.

Have you taken a look at the software from Pinnacle, how they scan? It takes a lot of time to scan all the channels. But they do find them all!
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on August 13, 2003, 12:19:41 pm: Quote
To answer the question you asked in another thread in May, about 'TV Tuner Property Page', it is a interface that most TV capture device offer, but MC does not directly use it to tune to the channels. However, MC uses the same programming interface as that dialog does. What happens if you try to tune to a channel using the 'TV Tuner Property Page'?

I can't tune to a channel because it is a bit off the channel frequency. Many programs offer a 'fine tune' or 'manual tune' mode. I can't find that in MC, probably because it isn't in there (or is it?).
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on August 13, 2003, 12:26:14 pm: Quote

No there is nothing extra for you to select. I only changed some code internally. Since it did not make any difference, I will have to search for other possiblilities.

Frankly, if the frequencies in Netherlands are systematically changed, Microsoft should have known it and should have taken it into account.

Have you tried selecting a different country? Many European countries use PAL_B format. For example Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway.

You're using a library from Microsoft to tune? If so, I agree that Microsoft should have tackled that. Now I understand why I couldn't get any channel on my older cards either here in Amsterdam (Cable Company is UPC), not even with the software from Pinnacle (this old version, by the way. crashed terribly, so bad that it erased the master boot record)! The funny thing is that I've used that older card in the North of Holland (Groningen). There's a different TV Company (Essent) active there and they also use slightly different channel frequencies, but I was able to scan all the channels there without any problem!!
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on August 13, 2003, 12:28:41 pm: Quote

No there is nothing extra for you to select. I only changed some code internally. Since it did not make any difference, I will have to search for other possiblilities.

Frankly, if the frequencies in Netherlands are systematically changed, Microsoft should have known it and should have taken it into account.

Have you tried selecting a different country? Many European countries use PAL_B format. For example Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Norway.

I've tried scanning with Denmark, Germany, Sweden, Afganistan and United Arab Emirates using antenna and cable, all with the same result, no channels but the 3 mentioned earlier were found.
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Yaobing on August 14, 2003, 05:54:51 am: Paul,

If you would like to test a file for me, please email me at yaobing @ jriver.com (without spaces). I will then email you a special build to test.

Yaobing
Title: Re: TV Tuner finds only 3 channels
Post by: Paul_Sinnema on September 08, 2003, 09:24:42 am: Yaobing,

Any progress to report?

Paul.