INTERACT FORUM
More => Old Versions => JRiver Media Center 21 for Windows => Topic started by: free on January 17, 2016, 07:52:30 am
-
Situation: I am using JRiver for playback of multichannel DSD playback. As my speakers are not all in the same distance to the listening position I need distance correction. Currently I need to disable DSD output to use distance correction.
Solution:
It would be very cool if it would be possible to use distance correction in direct DSD mode without converting DSD to PCM.
-
A few things, to be clear:
If you are bitstreaming, this by-definition, means you are sending the original source directly to the output device without alteration.
MC's audio engine operates on PCM audio. To use any DSP functions, audio must be unpacked to PCM (regardless of source format). So, what you are asking for is for them to write an entirely new audio engine that operates on DSD audio natively.
I know of no software digital signal processing engine in existence that operates on DSD audio natively. There are substantial technical hurdles to doing this (not to mention the massive development investment), and even under the most optimistic conditions, it would make almost no difference in the final output. Therefore, this is not very likely.
-
I am NOT talking about getting the whole DSP to work in DSD mode. As far as I know, this is not possible.
I talking only about getting the correction of the speaker distance to work in DSD mode. That should be possible without a big problem, because this should be only a timeshift of the DSD bitstream of the single channels. There is no need for changing the bitstream of the single channels.
-
I don't see your logic. Bitstreaming is for unadulterated signals for situations where the user doesn't want/trust the software to do the work. If you want to process the signal, then do so via conversion to PCM. Either you trust the engine to process the signal without tainting it or you don't.
Or perhaps you are thinking that DSD direct to the DAC has "better sound" than PCM? Because that isn't correct either. I won't get into details as there are plenty of threads around here on that. At some point the signal is being translated to PCM anyway so it doesn't matter.
The other option is because the computer you are using can't handle processing the DSD so you need to stream.
Or am I missing something else?
-
I think the request is pretty simple. Free wants to time align his speakers by giving each dsd channel a different starting "offset time", which in theory wouldn't require any processing, only starting playback of each channel at arbitrary times instead of all at once.
-
Or perhaps you are thinking that DSD direct to the DAC has "better sound" than PCM? Because that isn't correct either. I won't get into details as there are plenty of threads around here on that. At some point the signal is being translated to PCM anyway so it doesn't matter.
I don't think either of those blanket statements are correct. "DSD doesn't sound better than PCM". "DSD just gets converted to PCM anyway" I don't think you can say either of those are true in every case. I'm certain there are DSD DACs that do not use PCM internally.
Brian.
-
I don't think either of those blanket statements are correct. "DSD doesn't sound better than PCM".
As mentioned I'm not going into details about DSD sounding better than PCM. There are plenty of threads on that. I'm generalizing and yes there are specifics but in general sending DSD vs PCM to a DAC will not result in an audible difference provided the DAC is doing things correct and/or the software is. If either is not, than it isn't a DSD vs PCM issue or it falls into the "audiophile" realm.
"DSD just gets converted to PCM anyway" I don't think you can say either of those are true in every case. I'm certain there are DSD DACs that do not use PCM internally.
I guess that is true. Some DACS may output analog directly. Why would you want to send that instead of digital though? Optical, Coax, HDMI all use PCM or some other compressed format (Dolby etc). Compressed is lossy, so why would you want to go that route? I guess if the DAC is built into the amp than maybe it applies.
Both of those aside, my point is to try to figure out what his specifics are. JRiver is not going to be persuaded by pseudo science audiophile arguments, but they will listen to good use cases. So I'm outlining a general "this doesn't make sense on the surface" argument so that maybe more specifics can be provided. Then perhaps someone can offer an alternative solution or JRiver may be interested in an enhancement.
-
I guess that is true. Some DACS may output analog directly.
I don't understand what you mean by "some." All DACS output analog directly. DAC stands for "digital to analog converter. "
-
Whoops, of course you are correct. That'll teach me to multi task when on pain meds for a recent surgery... :) Was talking to someone about connecting from their sound card at same time as writing that up.
Please disregard that drivel in the second section.
What I should have written, is that I believe I read somewhere that nearly all DSD DACs converted to PCM internally before conversion to analog. I don't know the validity of that since I've never looked it up myself. That info is also old, so it is quite likely that some DACs may convert directly to analog.
-
This thread goes into some detail on what would be required to fulfill this request.
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=102766.0