INTERACT FORUM
Windows => Television => Topic started by: imeric on February 02, 2016, 08:08:34 pm
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In order to tweak subscriptions these 4 fields need to be added to the standard view so we can build proper rules... Not seing the metadata from the EPG is like a shot in the dark with lots of trials and errors therefore making it really hard to make working subscriptions.
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I've been trying to configure a subscription for reruns of the New O.J. Series and was not able to get it to work..
Rerun is unchecked as I want the repeats at around 1 AM. Do not record programs that have been recorded in the past is chekced and no matter what combinations I tried it didn't work.
I also tried changing the anchor time, I tried it by time etc...
I do have Season and Episode numbers in the EPG so just this alone should make it work...
Going to bed...Crazy the amount of time I spent on this software in the last few days.. ?
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Be great if Standard View Guide was user customize-able with all fields that are in the "TAG" drop-down. Would at least like the ability to search for KEYWORDS like "movie", so I can browse only movies in the Standard Guide (like I have setup in Theater View). Frankly, Standard View Guide needs a complete make-over. Currently there is way too much wasted space up top and too little space for actual listings below.
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OK..I think I partly figured out my O.J. issue :).... It has to do with the "When" option. Tweaking the anchor time to plus or minus 1 hour of the desired time kinda fixed it.
All of this to say we should have more flexibility on the time. Ideally why not combine "By Search Rules" and "By time"?
This would make it a lot more flexible and easier/simpler to customise!
All right..I need to go to bed now.
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Would at least like the ability to search for KEYWORDS like "movie", so I can browse only movies in the Standard Guide (like I have setup in Theater View).
Just enter "movie" into the search field at the top right corner when on the Television view in Standard View, and you will be given the option in the suggestions to search by [Media Sub Type] or [Keywords], or by [Name], [Actors] etc., if any of the programs have matches to "movie" in those tags. Also when you use that search function, the results are not limited to the next 24 hours, but show all matches in the EPG data.
OK..I think I partly figured out my O.J. issue :).... It has to do with the "When" option. Tweaking the anchor time to plus or minus 1 hour of the desired time kinda fixed it.
I mostly just use "All Showings" with series for this particular reason. Our broadcasters change the time, and even the channel, of series without warning, so my rules have to be broad. Then I use the rerun and previous recorded functions to eliminate too many duplicates. But I tend to record more than I want, rather than miss a program. For some channels and programs I can get away with "One per..." options though, and changing the anchor time is mandatory for a couple of those to work well.
It would be good if the Television view was more like other views, and was configurable, particularly for columns shown. But apparently that would be a big job, so it hasn't been put on the list, I suspect.
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Just enter "movie" into the search field at the top right corner when on the Television view in Standard View, and you will be given the option in the suggestions to search by [Media Sub Type] or [Keywords], or by [Name], [Actors] etc., if any of the programs have matches to "movie" in those tags. Also when you use that search function, the results are not limited to the next 24 hours, but show all matches in the EPG data.
I too use the search function in the standard view and it works great. If we could see the other 4 columns Name, Description, Season&Epsisode) this would be perfect for me. Setting up and tweaking subscriptions is a lot easier in the standard view (I actually prefer doing it this way vs Theater View and Sage!!)
I mostly just use "All Showings" with series for this particular reason. Our broadcasters change the time, and even the channel, of series without warning, so my rules have to be broad. Then I use the rerun and previous recorded functions to eliminate too many duplicates. But I tend to record more than I want, rather than miss a program. For some channels and programs I can get away with "One per..." options though, and changing the anchor time is mandatory for a couple of those to work well.
For me this doesn't work as I only have the Colossus for the STB and I would run into WAY too many conflicts. A bit more flexibility on the time and that should do it
It would be good if the Television view was more like other views, and was configurable, particularly for columns shown. But apparently that would be a big job, so it hasn't been put on the list, I suspect.
I totally agree with you...However Hopefully adding just the other 4 main fields in the standard view is easy to implement..I don't mind the standard view the way it is....
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There seems to be a bug in the "Do not record programs that have been recorded in the past"
As per the pic attached the last recording shouldn't be there as it will have been recorded already.
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BTW no matter what combinations I use for Name, Series Name, Description, Season & Episode numbers none of them seem work properly. AND I do have Season and Episode Numbers populated in the EPG Data.
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I have seen shows recorded more than one time, and will look into it.
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Just enter "movie" into the search field at the top right corner when on the Television view in Standard View, and you will be given the option in the suggestions to search by [Media Sub Type] or [Keywords], or by [Name], [Actors] etc., if any of the programs have matches to "movie" in those tags. Also when you use that search function, the results are not limited to the next 24 hours, but show all matches in the EPG data.
Thanks!
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I have seen shows recorded more than one time, and will look into it.
Thank you sir.
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BTW no matter what combinations I use for Name, Series Name, Description, Season & Episode numbers none of them seem work properly. AND I do have Season and Episode Numbers populated in the EPG Data.
Less is always better when defining the comparison fields. Every field you include needs to match for the "Do not record programs..." function to work. So if all other fields matched but the Description had an additional word, such as "repeat", then there would be no match, and the second showing would be recorded.
For example, if you don't, or may not, have Season and Episode numbers in the EPG data, it is better to just use: "Series name" and "Name".
If you do have Season and Episode numbers in the EPG data, and are pretty confident that you will always have them for the program, it is better to just use: "Series name", "Season number" and "Episode number".
Description is not good to match on for most programs, except maybe sports programs with consistently structured program names. In my case, broadcasters will change the description of programs from one showing to the next, probably to obfuscate the fact that the second showing is a repeat.
But it is quite possible that it doesn't always work anyway. I have seen it definitely work, but I haven't analysed whether it sometimes doesn't work. I tend to rely on the rerun functionality more, or just let extra copies of a program get recorded, then delete them. Safer, with some of the EPG errors I get.
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I spent A LOT of time on this and tried all possible combinations and believe me, it does not work correctly (Yaobbing confirms). As an example if you look at my snapshot you will see that the description was exactly the same for 2 repeats and both would be recorded.
Hopefully Yaobing will get to the bottom of it.
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I spent A LOT of time on this and tried all possible combinations and believe me, it does not work correctly (Yaobbing confirms).
Yes I know.
I was just sharing some information that may help in the future, once it is fixed. I was, in fact, prompted to make the comment by the example you put up, as in it you have selected all the compare fields, which I know will make a match even harder than using less fields, as each field must match. The field matches are connected by AND operators, not OR operators.
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Yeah I know...And I'm not surprised you noticed :) ! Looks like you pay a lot of attention to details that's good!!
Very good info on how matches are connected I wasn't sure thanks.. Maybe it should be added to the little note...
If it was working I agree it wouldn't have given the result with an AND as per my snapshot.
A Working AND between the 5 fields IMHO is the way to do this.
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Just so I get this straight...
So the logic is or should go like this right?
((previously aired NAME) AND (current NAME)) AND ((previously aired Series name) AND (current Series name)) AND ... So on for Description, Season and Episode...
So the more criteria you add the more restrictive I think that makes sense.
If it returns 1 or a TRUE then Do not record. Maybe the issue is the shows it looks at in the subscription..If one isnt'there that won't work...Maybe the time span is not large enough? In my case it would need up to 21 days for the lookup..
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Eric,
In the OJSimpson example you gave, do the duplicate recordings have exactly the same Name, Series name, Description, Season and Episode numbers?
As Roderick mentioned, description often gets changed a bit.
If all of them match, does the second recording have the same duration as the first? If duration differs by more than 5 minutes, then they are considered different shows. This is not a bug per se (it is designed to make sure a show is still recorded if the first try ended up in a partial recording), but I made a change (in an upcoming build) so that if the second airing is shorter, we will not record it.
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Just so I get this straight...
So the logic is or should go like this right?
((previously aired NAME) AND (current NAME)) AND ((previously aired Series name) AND (current Series name)) AND ... So on for Description, Season and Episode...
So the more criteria you add the more restrictive I think that makes sense.
If it returns 1 or a TRUE then Do not record. Maybe the issue is the shows it looks at in the subscription..If one isnt'there that won't work...Maybe the time span is not large enough? In my case it would need up to 21 days for the lookup..
((previously aired NAME) EQUALS (current NAME)) AND ((previously aired Series name) EQUALS (current Series name)) AND ... So on for Description, Season and Episode...
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Everything is the same and so is the duration. Let me attach a snapshot
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EQUALS Ok it makes sense. Here is the snapshot attached with the subscription rule. The first show is on Feb 9. The repeat that shouldn't be there is on the 17.
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"To be recorded" will list multiple airings, but once the first airing is recorded, the second will disappear from the list.
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"To be recorded" will list multiple airings, but once the first airing is recorded, the second will disappear from the list.
I must remember that. I have probably said before that if there was an earlier airing planned, the second airing wouldn't be recorded, implying that it wouldn't show up in the "To Be Recorded" list.
So, all showings will be in the list until the first is recorded, and then the later showings will be dropped. Which is good, as something may prevent the first recording from working.
Thanks for clarifying Yaobing. I think you have done that before. I'll try to remember better... :D
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If that's what happens then it makes sense. More of a good thing than a bad thing then!
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Yaobing I put some more thoughts into this overnight and I believe what we need is an OR condition between the fields and not an AND...
Example: If you have all fields selected it means a user wants to check against all parameters and skip a recording if ANY of them is the same rather than ALL of them...
Example 1 Let's say there's a minor discrepancy in the description repeats of the same show (extra space or else...):
((previously aired DESCRIPTION) EQUALS (current DESCRIPTION)) AND ((previously aired Series Episode) EQUALS (current Series Episode))
=FALSE AND TRUE = FALSE Then the two shows will be added in the to be recorded list..NOT WANTED
However:
((previously aired DESCRIPTION) EQUALS (current DESCRIPTION)) OR ((previously aired Series Episode) EQUALS (current Series Episode))
= FALSE AND TRUE = TRUE Then the show will be skipped and not added...WANTED
And so on...The more conditions the more restrictive..
OTHER EXAMPLE: Let's say getting season and episode numbers is not reliable...Sometimes you have it sometimes you don't...
You will want something like this to check against something else...Most likely the description:
((previously aired DESCRIPTION) EQUALS (current DESCRIPTION)) AND ((previously aired Series Season) EQUALS (current Series Season))AND ((previously aired Series Episode) EQUALS (current Series Episode))
= TRUE AND FALSE AND FALSE = FALSE Then the show will be added EVEN if the description is the same...NOT WANTED
Wanted:
((previously aired DESCRIPTION) EQUALS (current DESCRIPTION)) OR ((previously aired Series Season) EQUALS (current Series Season))OR ((previously aired Series Episode) EQUALS (current Series Episode))
= TRUE OR FALSE OR FALSE = TRUE Then the show will NOT be added When description is the same but not season and episode...WANTED
I also believe this check should be done against all future recordings so my repeat as per my snapshot should and will not show up...Not sure why it did show up as this above wouldn't resolve this unless I missed a discrepancy in my EPG...Maybe this fix above will...Other repeats didn't show why this one showed up to be recorded remains unclear...
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Hey just realized I got my 5th star...I'll go celebrate tonight ;) ;D!!!
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Yaobing I put some more thoughts into this overnight and I believe what we need is an OR condition between the fields and not an AND...
I don't agree with any of that. If you as a human being were shown the following values for a program, how would you, internally, decide if they were the same program, given that you had no access to additional information? Think carefully about how you would recognise they were the same.
"Series name", "Episode Name", "Season number", "Episode number" and "Description".
(I note that you seem to have combined "Series and Season [number I assume]", and "Series and Episode [number I assume]", when they are separate fields, vary separately, and can be tested and add value separately. I don't know why you did that.)
For me, if I see the same "Series name" and "Episode Name", I am pretty sure that it is the same program. The same if I see "Series name", "Season number" and "Episode number" match. If "Series name", "Episode Name", "Season number" and "Episode number" match, I would be positive.
However, if I saw two programs where the "Description" matched (character for character, not informational content) but the "Series name", "Episode Name", "Season number", "Episode number" or any subset of those fields did not match, I would not be sure that it was the same program, unless I could read the description and use my logic to determine if it was the same. The computer can't read the description to decide if the program is likely to be the same. It can just compare the characters.
For example, if the description was "Brauns vs Albatros at the Waka 15 September 2015" there is actually a lot of information in there, and it is quite unique. A human would interpret that as a sports event between two teams on a specific day at a specific location. Even if the other fields didn't match, a human would tend to think that the two program were the same, but would probably still check, since a description may have been carried over from a previous program in error, if the other fields don't match. In effect, as a human being, you are giving a higher weighting to the description because you can interpret the content. A computer can't do that. Nor can it check other sources, just to confirm.
There is also the problem that standardised descriptions are often used for episodes of a series, at least in my EPG data, so I would get positive matches on "Description" all the time, for completely different episodes.
Then besides all of the above, there is the issue of what are the consequences of getting it wrong?
If the rules resulted in a false positive match, then the second program would not be recorded, and a recording would be missed.
If the rules resulted in a false negative match, then the second program would be recorded when it was not required, as it was actually a duplicate of the first program.
Which result would you rather have in your DVR software? I know I will go for the false negative all the time, as it means I will always get recordings of the program I want, and sometimes a duplicate. That is much better that never getting any duplicate recordings, but sometimes missing a recording I want.
Your suggestion would result in more false positive matches, and hence missed recordings.
Other repeats didn't show why this one showed up to be recorded remains unclear...
Yaobing has said that he saw a problem in this area, and will look at it. Did you check all the attributes of each occurrence of the repeated program, to see if there was any difference? Finding a difference may help Yaobing find the cause.
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Standard view EPG improvement:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103021.msg715629#msg715629
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I am with RoderickGI on this one.
Eric, you must have mixed the concept of setting up a specific recording rule (which allows you to use OR or AND) with "already recorded" determination.
Just imagine if you choose to compare Series Name OR Episode Name, then you will only be able to record one episode for many series. For example, "NBA Basketball" is the series name for all such games. If I recorded "Chicago Bulls vs xxx" yesterday, and today I want to record "Houston Rocket vs. xxx", MC will not record it because it finds a match already (both shows have the same series name).
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I am with RoderickGI on this one.
Eric, you must have mixed the concept of setting up a specific recording rule (which allows you to use OR or AND) with "already recorded" determination.
Just imagine if you choose to compare Series Name OR Episode Name, then you will only be able to record one episode for many series. For example, "NBA Basketball" is the series name for all such games. If I recorded "Chicago Bulls vs xxx" yesterday, and today I want to record "Houston Rocket vs. xxx", MC will not record it because it finds a match already (both shows have the same series name).
Guys I'm not confusing anything and I'm convinced what I'm suggesting will work. Since you resolved the issue in the subject line I will start another post for this...
There's 2 things:
1. Creating the subscriptions...Of course I get it as IMHO am the one who suggested to create "smart lists" to build subscriptions....And it works like a charm especially for sports events. See my original request here for that specific aspect of building subscriptions:
In the EPG it could have any different combinations of names in either the description or name of the show...
The logic required would be as follows: (Toronto OR Blue Jays) AND (MLB or Baseball) in any of the fields description and name.
If we could create subscriptions like we build smart lists I believe this would work.
)
NOW The second aspect I'm tackling here is for the "Do not record shows that have neen recorded in the past". Which I will post later Here:
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Follow-up to this post here:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=103089.msg715820#msg715820